#avr Logs
Feb 05 2018
#avr Calendar
03:19 AM abcminiuser: Is there a Jasper in the house?
03:23 AM Haohmaru: earth to jasper, earth to jasper
03:23 AM polymorph: hi
03:23 AM polymorph: abcminiuser: sup dude :)
03:23 AM abcminiuser: polymorph, are you the Key Master? Or just Jasper?
03:24 AM polymorph: abcminiuser: nah neither
03:24 AM abcminiuser: Ah, Zuul then.
03:24 AM abcminiuser: Man, I keep forgetting to re-open IRC these days
03:25 AM abcminiuser: I'm getting forgetful in my old age.
03:25 AM polymorph: i think you wont even remember me
03:25 AM Haohmaru: he keeps forgetting to come here?
03:25 AM polymorph: abcminiuser: i got lost for years
03:25 AM Haohmaru: we should punish him!
03:26 AM abcminiuser: I have terrible memory at the best of times :S
03:26 AM Haohmaru: polymorph and u gon' be punished later too
03:26 AM abcminiuser: Woah, this place has changed
03:26 AM abcminiuser: I leave for one year or so and it transforms into a BDSM thingy
03:26 AM Haohmaru: nah
03:27 AM Haohmaru: it transformed into a stm32-whatever-that-means
03:27 AM polymorph: Haohmaru: even worse, now i am planning to abandon avr in favor of stm32f373
03:27 AM Haohmaru: there we go >:/
03:27 AM polymorph: abcminiuser: and atmel was bought by the microchip after you left ;) they couldn't make it without you
03:28 AM Haohmaru: my worst nightmare :~(
03:28 AM abcminiuser: Writing's on the wall, modern ARM parts are damned cheap
03:29 AM polymorph: abcminiuser: but i still miss atmega's asynchronous timer;/
05:23 AM [Ristovski] is now known as Ristovski
05:52 AM nohitzwork: my future scope https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rigol-DS1054Z-Digital-Oscilloscopes-Bandwidth-50-Mhz-Channels-4-/331941742120?hash=item4d49450628
05:52 AM nohitzwork: 310e shipped
05:56 AM Haohmaru: r u in the US?
05:57 AM nohitzwork: no, finland
05:58 AM nohitzwork: (i used euro so thats kinda a giveaway that not u.s)
06:00 AM Haohmaru: aren't you gonna get a VAT surprise then?
06:00 AM nohitzwork: hmm maybe
06:00 AM Haohmaru: i'm scared of buying expensive stuff from outside of the EU ;P~
06:16 AM polymorph: sup _ami_
06:16 AM polymorph: pasted my creation before here, i dont have the logs now
06:19 AM polymorph: _ami_: 2018-02-02T20:34:38 < polymorph> my latest creation: The poker and the vampire https://ibb.co/cDbZER https://ibb.co/gdw1uR https://ibb.co/irQGTm https://ibb.co/ncV5M6
06:57 AM twnqx: Haohmaru: i can tell you for germany it's just a different name but same as VAT, thus 19% :P
06:58 AM Haohmaru: i guess i really meant "customs"
08:53 AM day: Haohmaru: yeah its super annoying. I usually lose my shit in the customs office
08:55 AM day: Haohmaru: its even worse if you cant drive their yourself. then DHL is so nice to do the paper stuff for you, for only 20EUR extra
08:55 AM day: there*
08:56 AM Haohmaru: i've been drooling at specific stuff which is much cheaper from US or japan, but.. i avoid it
08:56 AM rue_: yea $50 or $60 in canada
08:56 AM day: china is usually not an issue for me. never had customs problems.
08:56 AM rue_: "border fee"
08:56 AM day: US, Japan GG
08:56 AM Haohmaru: day i think it's common in china to "lie" about the price of the package
08:57 AM Haohmaru: they even mark smaller stuff as "gift"
08:57 AM day: oh they all do it luckily
08:57 AM day: the japan packages were also labeled below value
08:57 AM Haohmaru: but i can't rely on that ;]
08:57 AM day: i think the "free shipping" china packages come in a gigantic container and they dont have the manpower to check them all :p
08:58 AM day: and 99% of them are sub 20eur anyways so you dont have to pay vat
08:58 AM Haohmaru: thing is.. its (or it should be) illegal to lie about the price of what you're sending
08:58 AM learath: you don't have to pay vat on sub-20eur?
08:58 AM learath: Haohmaru: it is.
08:58 AM day: Haohmaru: im sure it is.
08:58 AM day: i do it as well. they cant touch you
08:58 AM learath: well. it is in the US :P
08:59 AM day: learath: yeah sub 20 or 25eur (incl. shipping) we dont have to pay vat on imports
08:59 AM learath: interesting.
08:59 AM learath: probably simply "not worth it"
09:00 AM Haohmaru: there is a lower threshold for stuff from outside of the EU where customs/vat doesn't apply
09:00 AM learath: ie the cost to collect would be higher than the take
09:00 AM Haohmaru: that is, cheap stuff
09:00 AM day: yeah probably. and thats a perfect shield for the china package container :p
09:00 AM Haohmaru: but a 300euro scope is far above that threshold
09:00 AM learath: hah yeah
09:00 AM day: 300eur from japan is not going to slip by. im pretty sure about that
09:01 AM day: ive even imported a butterfly trainer from china. they didnt even open the package. and it would look like a legit one from the X-Ray
09:02 AM Haohmaru: a wat
09:02 AM day: butterfly knife trainer
09:02 AM Haohmaru: oh
09:02 AM day: blunt blade
09:02 AM learath: hahah ahh man
09:02 AM learath: those are so fun to play with :)
09:02 AM day: the real one is classified as an illegal weapon iirc :P
09:02 AM learath: the original fidget spinner :P
09:03 AM Haohmaru: it's full of these here in "souveneer" shops and on the streets
09:03 AM Haohmaru: i had one when i was a kid
10:00 AM polprog: last time i ordered something from japan and it went through customs, it was pretty easy, and if it wasnt the new year next day i could probably have it next day.
10:00 AM polprog: as they had some days off afterwards
10:10 AM HighInBC: Japan tends to ship much faster than China because they pay to have it shipped properly
10:10 AM HighInBC: and China has a built in "slow boat from China" system that costs almost nothing
10:10 AM learath: HighInBC: IIRC it's paid for by the government
10:10 AM HighInBC: yes
10:10 AM learath: *totally* not anti-competitive!
10:10 AM polprog: my regular mail parcel took 2 days from japan to warsaaw
10:11 AM learath: they just subsidize the most expensive part of the entire process :P
10:11 AM HighInBC: done very competitively and very slowly
10:17 AM day: learath: for real? i always wondered how they do it. Afterall someone from i assume DHL drops that package into my postbox. that alone should often cost more than i paid overall.
10:18 AM learath: day: re: china, absolutely
10:18 AM day: so you can apply there for the *free shipping program* ? :P
10:18 AM learath: http://fortune.com/2015/03/11/united-nations-subsidy-chinese-shipping/
10:19 AM learath: I'm not familiar with the process :P
10:19 AM learath: I assume you just register as an exporter
10:19 AM learath: and get some kind of way to print labels?
10:26 AM day: learath: apparently it works from UN -> china as well. china is probably still laughing about that deal :D
10:27 AM learath: It's genius for them
10:27 AM learath: they grow their industry while killing ours.
10:28 AM day: well it is only accelerating the inevitable i guess
10:28 AM learath: day: it's only inevitable if you presume total incompetence on the part of the US
10:28 AM learath: which is fair :P
10:28 AM day: meh. our standards are too high, we cant compete when it comes to production
10:29 AM day: but as time comes their standards are bound to rise as well
10:29 AM learath: day: if you are not mentally deficient (as a country) what you do is just slow everything down
10:29 AM day: s/comes/goes
10:30 AM learath: so they balance out *before* you are destroyed
10:30 AM learath: luckily for china we've got an entire party dedicated to speeding things up
10:30 AM learath: which baffles me
10:30 AM polprog: "we" meaning?
10:31 AM learath: the USA
10:31 AM polprog: ok
10:31 AM day: europe is the same
10:31 AM learath: Other countries are being smarter about it.
10:31 AM day: the evil guy is "russia" here
10:31 AM day: at least in the media :D
10:31 AM polprog: haha
10:31 AM learath: well, I mean, russia *is* evil :P
10:32 AM learath: but giving china 100% of everything isn't exactly not-evil?
10:32 AM learath: but, china is playing it super smart.
10:32 AM learath: or maybe, "china is playing chess, while we are playing eat the lead paint"?
10:33 AM day: more like SC2
10:33 AM day: 3base expansion
10:33 AM day: frickn zergs
10:33 AM learath: no that's south korea :P
10:34 AM learath: but yeah, if you are not mentally deficient, you just slow things down till they stabilize
10:34 AM polprog: i found my sc2 disk recently
10:34 AM day: i want to see the end :p
10:35 AM day: so no slowing down please
10:35 AM learath: :(
10:35 AM polprog: iirc it ran well on wine but i couldnt ever pass the zerg rush mission on human campaign
10:37 AM day: i like how korea tried to snack a few islands with their new olympia flag lol
10:42 AM day: olympic*
12:53 PM polprog: Emil: https://puu.sh/zhicS/1c8b5f430a.png
01:13 PM polprog: i have a feeling i wanna make a long rs422 connection and run ppp over it. but i dont have any place to run it to
01:30 PM nuxil: make sure youre suing twisted pairs.
01:30 PM nuxil: old cat cable ?
01:30 PM polprog: possibly
01:31 PM polprog: or wet string lol
01:31 PM nuxil: fiber :)
01:31 PM polprog: twisted fiber!
01:31 PM nuxil: ^^
01:44 PM Jartza: evening
01:44 PM polprog: o/
01:52 PM nuxil: howdy
01:53 PM Jartza: wazzup+
01:53 PM polprog: b o r e d
01:57 PM nuxil: not much. messing around on the breadboard
01:57 PM nuxil: looks like a crows nest :)
01:59 PM Jartza: heh
01:59 PM Jartza: I just cleaned up my breadboard
02:00 PM Jartza: https://i.imgur.com/QOUsT0u.jpg
02:00 PM nuxil: what are you making there ?
02:01 PM Jartza: nothing specific
02:01 PM polprog: do you have one big breadboard with random junk from old projects inserted here and there ? :P
02:02 PM polprog: whats that red cypress board?
02:02 PM mudkip908_ is now known as mudkip908
02:02 PM Jartza: there's some things I've played with lately like attiny10, nrf52, stm32, some power boosters, esp8266, attiny5 breakouts, oscillator breakouts, atmega328p, etc
02:02 PM Jartza: and sd card
02:02 PM polprog: that trimpot lol
02:03 PM LeoNerd: polprog: I think my record was having four different projects on my big breadboard
02:03 PM Jartza: but just cleaned up the ratsnet
02:03 PM LeoNerd: It's a giant 6-module monster
02:04 PM Jartza: I have 10 breadboards more for some other stuff, but those are not in use now
02:04 PM Jartza: :P
02:04 PM LeoNerd: I have lots but most of them are small, with some sort of MCU already attached
02:04 PM LeoNerd: one moe
02:04 PM polprog: i have like 3 breadboards so i have to allocate them wisely
02:05 PM Jartza: I like to have plenty of them so I just throw in some wires and get shit done
02:05 PM LeoNerd: https://twitter.com/cpan_pevans/status/724252582877777920
02:05 PM LeoNerd: ^-- that's four. I have about 7 now
02:05 PM LeoNerd: 7 or 8. I forget
02:05 PM LeoNerd: Pre-wired for power off various MCU breakout boards
02:06 PM nuxil: LeoNerd, is the +/- bannana inputs connected to +/- rail on the board ?
02:06 PM nuxil: or do you have to wire that yourself
02:07 PM LeoNerd: No, those bananas are separate
02:07 PM nuxil: ok.
02:07 PM Jartza: I think I have total of 15 breadboard modules
02:07 PM polprog: LeoNerd: do you have two tt accounts?
02:08 PM Jartza: but currently only 7 joined together in this "workbench" to try out some shit
02:08 PM Emil: polprog: I WANT THAT
02:08 PM LeoNerd: polprog: TT?
02:08 PM nuxil: i have a couple pf thouse cheep small ones.
02:08 PM polprog: LeoNerd: twitter
02:08 PM LeoNerd: I have several yes
02:09 PM nuxil: and found that using "cat 5" cables as jumpers is bad. gets real loosy after cat5 cable
02:09 PM Jartza: polprog: oh and yea, red one is cy8kit
02:09 PM Jartza: I only bought it for the usb-part, haha
02:09 PM polprog: nuxil: i dont find cat5 bad for jumoers
02:10 PM polprog: jumpers*
02:10 PM polprog: usualy i dont reuse them very much
02:10 PM Jartza: because the usb-part has cy7c65211 and it can be snapped off from board
02:10 PM Jartza: that provides usb <-> ttl-uart/i2c/spi converter
02:10 PM Jartza: and the whole thingamabob did cost around 5€
02:11 PM nuxil: polprog, nor do i.. i got breadboard with a bit more quality. the handle cat5 fine. but not these chinees cheep small ones
02:11 PM polprog: i have two breadboards that look like Jartza's ones and one superchineese like without any printing at all. that one is crap
02:12 PM Jartza: http://fi.farnell.com/cypress-semiconductor/cy8ckit-049-41xx/prototype-board-cy8c4125axi-483/dp/2420488?MER=bn_search_1TP_SearchNB_1
02:12 PM Jartza: this one
02:13 PM LeoNerd: For USB to I²C/SPI, I'm a fan of the FTDI FT232H
02:13 PM nuxil: ftdi some bad people
02:13 PM Jartza: https://github.com/tai/python-ucdev
02:14 PM nuxil: LeoNerd, dont support ftdi
02:14 PM nuxil: remember what they did ?
02:15 PM Jartza: I've found CY7C65211 being quite nice
02:16 PM nuxil: people would go on ebay buying all sorts of stuff. many of these things had fake ftdi chips in the, the consums had no idea about that ofc. but here ftdi goes and make a update on the driver. which windoes puches out. this update briked every deviced that had a fake ftdi chip in it.
02:16 PM Jartza: and with that price, getting ready board - just solder some headers, plus free psoc cm0 :)
02:16 PM * LeoNerd looks up CY7C65211
02:17 PM polprog: the question is does it support BREAKs?
02:18 PM Jartza: yes
02:18 PM polprog: "S485 Support
02:18 PM polprog: "RS485 support: no"
02:18 PM polprog: ill make it support rs485
02:19 PM LeoNerd: The A version has
02:19 PM nuxil: LeoNerd, you can even go watch dave jones rant about it in one of his videos :)
02:19 PM polprog: yeah i see
02:19 PM polprog: nuxil: good old dave rant
02:19 PM nuxil: yup
02:19 PM polprog: not sure if i told you how i control receiver/driver enable in my 485 board
02:20 PM polprog: my program just wiggles DTR on the com port
02:20 PM Jartza: it has rs-422 support though
02:20 PM polprog: but rs422 support is just differential transmission, does it mean it has the driver built in?
02:23 PM Jartza: prolly not
02:24 PM nuxil: Jartza, considered a epeleptic version of tagsu ? instead of audio jack. use a ldr or something and make the screen flash like crazy while its pointed at the screen :D
02:24 PM Jartza: http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/100/CY7C65211_USB_Serial_Single_Channel_UART_I2C_SPI_B-369290.pdf
02:25 PM Jartza: nuxil: yes, I even tried it, but it was soooo sloooooow
02:25 PM nuxil: :)
02:25 PM polprog: make a retro tagsu that you program with a tiny punchcards
02:25 PM polprog: like the first programmable calculators
02:25 PM Jartza: don't wanna :)
02:26 PM polprog: but thats cutting edge technology (if you cut yourself on the paper ;) )
02:32 PM Jartza: hah
02:53 PM splud: Greetings. I have one of the many chinese variations of an avrisp device. Marked "baite" USBasp H6
02:55 PM splud: I've used it many times in the past to flash a number of AVR devices, largely Tiny13A and Tiny85. No problems - unless I run into a device that needs HV fuse resetting, in which case I use an uno shield I constructed ages ago and do an HV fuse reset with it., then I can ISP with the dongle.
02:56 PM splud: Recently, while experimenting with an ATTiny43U, I started having problems reading and setting the fuses with avrdude (6.3, on Linux)
03:00 PM LeoNerd: polprog, nuxil: I'm looking at this Cypress chip now.. It doesn't really look the sort of thing that is dynamically reconfigurable
03:00 PM LeoNerd: Like the FTDI is
03:01 PM antto: what's the current go-to USB-to-UART chip?
03:02 PM antto: no exotic drivers, preferably
03:02 PM LeoNerd: FTDI, Cypress, Silabs, CH
03:02 PM LeoNerd: There's like, four of them
03:02 PM LeoNerd: Probably more
03:02 PM antto: which one
03:02 PM antto: i saw this FT260 while browsing randomly on FTDI's site
03:03 PM antto: at first glance, it looks much better than the old FT232 stuff
03:04 PM antto: it was also cheaper
03:04 PM antto: and the example circuit for it was very simple
03:07 PM LeoNerd: polprog, nuxil: Yeah also I'm not really finding any information about this Cypress chip and how to actually use the damn thing
03:08 PM LeoNerd: The FTDI ones actually document themselves so you can see how to talk to it
03:10 PM antto: there's also the microshit MCP2200 or something
03:19 PM splud: anyway, the avrdude seems to be unable to reliably set/read the fuses with the usbasp dongle
03:20 PM Jartza: did you update the firmware of uabasp? :p
03:22 PM splud: No. It is unclear how I'd do that, as there is no programming header for it (outside of USB in and the 2x3 ISP out). Seemed like it was a locked-down chinese firmware.
03:23 PM LeoNerd: Usually you can program it via its own ISP header
03:23 PM LeoNerd: There'll be a link so you can attach the reset line of the ISP header to the reset pin of the chip
03:23 PM LeoNerd: At least, there is on mine
03:27 PM Jartza: splud: just use the ISP connector ... connect it to for example arduino ISP
03:27 PM splud: Okay, doing that and pulling down the current firmware image.
03:28 PM Jartza: and you need to put jumper in j2 for firmware flashing
03:29 PM Jartza: my versions were missing pins from j2 so I juat used piece of single core wire to short j2
03:29 PM Jartza: didn't even solder, as the wire is removed after fw flash
03:30 PM Jartza: http://www.rogerclark.net/updating-firmware-on-usbasp-bought-from-ebay/
03:30 PM Jartza: there's pretty clear instructions
03:31 PM Jartza: I had all sorts of problems with the original firmware
03:31 PM splud: I soldered header and then jumpered it.
03:31 PM Jartza: I updated one usbasp with arduino and then used that usbasp to update the rest :)
03:32 PM Jartza: I bought 10 of them because we had sort of embedded bootcamp, didn't want to spend fortune to programmers
03:35 PM splud: No problem. I'd had no issues with this device until attempting to program the 43U with it, and then it just became unreliable.
03:40 PM Jartza: hmm
03:40 PM Jartza: I've used usbasp a lot
03:41 PM antto: u goin to jail, son
03:41 PM LeoNerd: I have two USBasp-type things and they're quite different
03:42 PM LeoNerd: also one of them seems to break after it's been plugged into USB for more than about 60 seconds
03:42 PM LeoNerd: So I always have to replug it :(
03:42 PM antto: break meaning it starts to act weird (OS thinks it disconnects, can't recognize what device it is, and such) ?
03:43 PM LeoNerd: It misreads the device signature from the connected MCU
03:43 PM LeoNerd: E.g. it'll come back as 0x001000 or somecrap, usually almost all zeroes
03:43 PM antto: ah
03:43 PM LeoNerd: Which avrdude says is unexpected, so aborts. But then just unplug/replug the USB device and all is fine again
03:43 PM antto: well, usbasp bingo
03:43 PM splud: so, attempts to read the m8 device via the ICSP with the programming jumper set gets me an 8KB binary (when saved as binary) which visibly has blocks of sequential alpha+symbol blocks.
03:43 PM polprog: yeah, they are nice until they start to crap out and then you are thankful you have a packup prog
03:44 PM polprog: backup*
03:44 PM LeoNerd: It'd be nice just to find a decent programmer
03:44 PM antto: like stoichkov says: "sometimes win, sometimes lyun"
03:44 PM splud: But does that to one that I just took out of the antistat bag and jumpered.
03:44 PM LeoNerd: The Pololu one is nice except that it doesn't push V[tg]
03:44 PM LeoNerd: And only does 5V, not 3.3V, which admittedly is fine for some of the things I do
03:45 PM polprog: dragon would be nice if it wasnt that horridly expensive. and why does it need so many chips?
03:45 PM polprog: it already is nice if you ignore the price
03:45 PM antto: everything is nicer when you're filthy rich
03:47 PM Jartza: splud: oh, also, I very often need to use -B 8 when burning fuses
03:47 PM Jartza: usbasp doesn't auto-adapt the speed IMO
03:47 PM Jartza: in avrdude, that is, the -B param
03:48 PM LeoNerd: The Dragon is *huge*
03:48 PM LeoNerd: I want a tiny USB thing
03:48 PM antto: is there something new for xmega PDI?
03:48 PM antto: parallel port something?
03:49 PM LeoNerd: I suspect most of the problem with USBasp is the V-USB implementation anyway. Perhaps sometime someone will make a better one using the 32U4 or somesuch
03:49 PM LeoNerd: Or even the 32U2, would be fine for it
03:50 PM polprog: one that uses and stm32 B)
03:50 PM polprog: an*
03:50 PM LeoNerd: Well the advantage of it being AVR-based is that people who want an AVR programmer tend already to be set up for AVR toolchain generally
03:50 PM LeoNerd: So they're more likely able to maintain tooling built on AVR
03:50 PM polprog: yeah, im joking
03:51 PM polprog: also, i think i opened up my usbasp and it didnt have the self programming jumper :(
03:51 PM polprog: no firmware update for me
03:52 PM antto: i don't want to be stuck to avrdude 5 :~(
04:13 PM polprog: night
04:18 PM splud: okay, reflash seems to have done the trick with the usbasp device. thanks.
04:35 PM splud: very weird though - I cannot seem to READ the stock flash from the device. read the lock bits = 3c. Off to datasheet.
04:54 PM rebecc_ is now known as rebecca
04:57 PM polymorph: hi
05:00 PM polymorph: *note, don't touch live 230VAC hot with grounded soldering iron tip
05:03 PM splud: yea, some googling reveals that the sequential values I'm getting in the dump are due to lock bits on the device. Thought I thought that when the device was reprogrammed (atmega8 in the usbasp) it would clear the lockbits - I still can't READ the fuse bits.
05:05 PM polymorph: splud: you write the lock bis with separate command
05:05 PM polymorph: t
05:42 PM polymorph: splud: chip erase clears lock bits
05:43 PM polymorph: or clear lock bits does chip erase before
05:48 PM splud: (sorry, afk for a while there doing tests). I used -e with avrdude, had no affect on being able to read the fuse bits of the target usbasp device.
05:49 PM splud: It flashed and verified fine, but I am unable to read the fuse bits: "avrdude: safemode: Sorry, reading back fuses was unreliable. I have given up and exited programming mode
05:49 PM splud: "
05:49 PM splud: afk again for a few - need to grab the prototype that I was having trouble with the other day to see if I can now flash it.
06:01 PM polymorph: -u Disables the default behaviour of reading out the fuses three times before programming, then verifying at the end of programming that the fuses have not changed. If you want to change fuses you will need to specify this option, as avrdude will see the fuses have changed (even though you wanted to) and will change them back for your "safety". This option was designed to prevent cases of fuse bits magically changing (usually cal
06:38 PM polymorph: i have made 1 good procision plier out of 2 broken ones, the exact same type and the opposing nose broke........ https://www.artbeads.com/jewelry-supplies/jewelry-tools/chain-nose-pliers/
06:58 PM splud_ is now known as splud
07:14 PM splud: Sadly, no change on the viability of the 43U I first had troubles with the usbasp dongle with.
07:15 PM splud: can't HV fuse reset the thing, can't id with the usbasp..
11:46 PM day__ is now known as day