#avr Logs
Dec 03 2017
#avr Calendar
02:52 AM polprog: morning
02:59 AM _ami_: evening :)
06:14 AM fooman2011: Hello. I would like to use this epaper screen: http://www.iflabel.com/downloadsfront.do?method=picker&flag=all&id=79b73c73-407e-4fe0-ba83-ed503b8347d1&fileId=16&memstate=&v=1.zip But i'm totally noob at this. Could you please tell me what Iis required to draw something on this screen ?
06:42 AM nuxil: does it have a serial interface board included ?
06:53 AM anonnumberanon: fooman2011, you can't buy it anywhere what is this?
06:53 AM anonnumberanon: ILE080A1
07:13 AM polprog: fooman2011: you need the supplies and a program that sends data (think driver)
07:13 AM polprog: it's not that simple
07:14 AM polprog: it needs 5 different voltages
07:14 AM polprog: (page 6)
07:15 AM polprog: and you need to bring them up and down in the right order
07:15 AM polprog: (i dont know how to do that lol, maybe some comparator electronics)
07:15 AM polprog: it's not your average breadboard project lol
07:16 AM nuxil: why not just get this one instead? https://www.ebay.com/itm/251910601535?rmvSB=true its 4.3" tho but has all what you need.
07:16 AM polprog: i would definitely opt for that module
07:16 AM polprog: looks like spi or spi-based control
07:16 AM polprog: :)
07:16 AM nuxil: yea
07:17 AM polprog: ping fooman2011
08:00 AM fooman2011: nuxil: I curently use this one. I'm looking for if there is another option
08:00 AM fooman2011: (sory about the delay)
08:03 AM fooman2011: Thie epaper display uses a HX8705B driver https://www.smart-prototyping.com/image/data/9_Modules/EinkDisplay/GDE043A2/HX8705-B_DS_prelim inary_v01_100621.pdf But I don't understand how to talk to this driver using SPI or I2C or Serial ?
08:30 AM polprog: fooman2011: that's because it's none of those protocols
08:30 AM polprog: it uses a paralell bus
08:30 AM polprog: synchronous with some control lines as well
09:12 AM fooman2011: polprog: Ok so tu understand how it works I have to read documentations about paralell bus and control lines ?
09:13 AM fooman2011: But they are a lot of other things that I don't really understand like why they are 3 different voltage
09:14 AM fooman2011: and how to say "put a pixel at x, y"
09:24 AM polprog: you have chosen a "bare" display part
09:25 AM polprog: get a module which you feed in 5V, some SPI/I2C or whatever, let the module take care of all the hard stuff
09:25 AM polprog: and even with a module you would probably have to understand how display memory works and that in most cases to update a single pixel you'd have to update the whole byte
09:26 AM polprog: but the module takes care of the hard part which is generating voltages etc
09:27 AM polprog: there are a bunch of different voltages because the way how epaper works needs many different voltages
09:27 AM polprog: i dont know the details of epaper :P
09:29 AM fooman2011: polprog: Ok tanks for the info :)
10:36 AM robinak is now known as robink
10:42 AM nuxil: fooman2011, there us this. http://educ8s.tv/arduino-e-paper-display-tutorial/ if you havent seen it. but it uses epaper with spi
10:42 AM nuxil: you will find the source code on that page. its for awedrino tho, but can be modified easly since its just a "libary"
01:11 PM nuxil: mmm, the dinner is in my tummy :)
01:13 PM nuxil: https://github.com/fffaraz/awesome-avr
01:14 PM nuxil: seems interesting
01:27 PM Jartza: nuxil: not a good list, I don't see octapentaveega, 12kbps audio-data transfer or tagsu :D
01:28 PM nuxil: lol. yea, youre absolutely right :p
01:29 PM nuxil: but octapentaveega is beyond awesome :)
01:32 PM nuxil: https://github.com/buserror/simavr
01:32 PM nuxil: anyone tried it?
01:34 PM polprog: Jartza: tagsu?
01:35 PM nuxil: modem
01:36 PM polprog: looks cool
01:37 PM polprog: the white-on-blue lcd
01:37 PM polprog: first thing i would do when i get it would be to swap it to a nice black-on-green
01:42 PM nuxil: hu?
01:42 PM Jartza: well, next barch of Tagsus will probably be 500 and that will be the last batch
01:42 PM nuxil: will you be using the atiny85?
01:45 PM Jartza: yes
01:46 PM Jartza: we've sold 400 of them so far but people still seem to want them
01:46 PM nuxil: nice.
01:46 PM Jartza: so I figured batch of 500 will last at least 2 years
01:46 PM rue_bed: nuxil, code thats made to work in a simulator will usually ONLY work in that simulator
01:46 PM rue_bed: its a thing
01:46 PM Jartza: after which nobody will probably remember it anymore :)
01:47 PM nuxil: rue_bed, ok thanks.. i will not waste my time on that thing then :p
01:47 PM rue_bed: get a real chip
01:47 PM rue_bed: write real code, properly, with modules that are tested as you go
01:48 PM rue_bed: every time you call a function, it should be known it already works
01:48 PM nuxil: i have chips. just just curiouse about that thingy if its any usefull
01:48 PM Jartza: I've used simavr to test things
01:48 PM rue_bed: :)
01:48 PM Jartza: especially automated tests
01:49 PM nuxil: Jartza, do you power it by a single aaa battery and use a step-up converter ? or is there anohter aaa on the backside ??
01:49 PM rue_bed: nuxil, another point is that almost everything has been done, and you can ask people what they did, and work with code they wrote, just be carefull of their bugs
01:50 PM nuxil: on the pic it seems like its only 1xaaa.
01:50 PM nuxil: rue_bed, yea true that
01:51 PM rue_bed: I dont think an avr will release reset under 1.6V, but it will at 4.2 aka 3.6
01:52 PM Jartza: nuxil: single aaa and boost converter
01:52 PM nuxil: :)
01:52 PM polprog: iirs the low voltage versions work at 2.7 or 1.8 least (cant remember)
01:52 PM rue_bed: maxim boost or discrete?
01:52 PM Jartza: new version seems to run for about 120-140 hours with single battery
01:52 PM nuxil: not bad at all
01:53 PM polprog: that's very good
01:53 PM polprog: to me
01:54 PM Jartza: rue_bed: microchip
01:54 PM rue_bed: mcu or smps chip?
01:54 PM Jartza: the backlight is on all the time so I'd say 120 hours is pretty good :)
01:54 PM Jartza: sot23-6
01:55 PM Jartza: mcp1624
01:55 PM rue_bed: capacitor or inductor based?
01:55 PM Jartza: inductor
01:56 PM Jartza: LCD is also custom version ordered from Raystar
01:56 PM rue_bed: data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQS................
01:56 PM rue_bed: wow, havn't seen anyone do that in a long time
01:58 PM Jartza: LCD viewing angle has been optimized for the name badge that hangs from neck, and backlight led is very low consumption one
01:58 PM polprog: like, embed the image in URL?
01:59 PM rue_bed: yup
01:59 PM polprog: Jartza: sounds cool. something not for one-off hobbyists :D
01:59 PM rue_bed: I did it with some icons once
01:59 PM rue_bed: on a page somewhere
02:04 PM Jartza: polprog: yea, ordered 1000 displays as that was minimum order for customization
02:05 PM Jartza: will end up with 500 extra displays, but such is life :D
02:05 PM rue_bed: just have china liquidate them for you
02:06 PM Jartza: naah. I end up making some stupid-ass art project out of them
02:06 PM Jartza: and open sourcing the tagsu PCB & firmware
02:06 PM nuxil: open hardware ?
02:06 PM Jartza: yea
02:06 PM nuxil: that nice.
02:07 PM Jartza: currently converting tagsu PCB to kicad
02:07 PM Jartza: so that it would be more accessible to people
02:09 PM nuxil: you should add theopen source hardware logo silkscreen :)
02:09 PM nuxil: to your pcb
02:11 PM nuxil: that will make david jones happy :p
02:12 PM Jartza: I will
02:14 PM Jartza: and also open source the website server code and if I have time, make standalone update-app
02:15 PM Jartza: I also might end up with 500 devices in stock that nobody ever buys because they can make their own, but whatta heck
02:16 PM polprog: hehe
02:16 PM Jartza: gonna send dave one anyway
02:16 PM Jartza: or two
02:16 PM nuxil: :)
02:16 PM Jartza: and put octapentaveega and pentaveega to same package too
02:16 PM Emil: Jartza: send one to Dave
02:16 PM Emil: Also send a couple to our electronics workshop ;)
02:16 PM Jartza: heh
02:17 PM Emil: oh seconds too alte :D
02:17 PM polprog: i feel like im ready to build FOSS software myself but if i was to fabricate the PCB and buy all the parts it would be wayyy more expensive than to buy one ready made from you
02:17 PM polprog: and theres also the author support part
02:17 PM Jartza: if everything else fails, I can send rest of them to Hydraulic Press channel @YT
02:17 PM polprog: lol
02:17 PM polprog: i can take any number
02:18 PM polprog: ^.^
02:19 PM nuxil: maybe you can sell them as kits aswell as preassembled?
02:19 PM Jartza: polprog: yeah, we first thought to make DIY-kit for hobbyists, but in the end it wont be THAT much cheaper...
02:19 PM Jartza: maybe I should design 3d-printable case to it too
02:20 PM nuxil: i want your toys :p
02:20 PM polprog: make a Mac config software in Qt and sell those to hipsters
02:20 PM Jartza: hah, the update app WILL be Qt
02:20 PM polprog: for 15$ / pc
02:21 PM Jartza: can make android etc. versions
02:21 PM Jartza: of course we still have the website
02:21 PM Jartza: http://tagsu.io
02:21 PM polprog: .io
02:21 PM Jartza: just type "edit" to open the editor
02:22 PM polprog: hmm
02:22 PM Jartza: or "load" for fun
02:22 PM polprog: exactly what i expected, website playing sounds
02:22 PM polprog: kidof like dialup in my headphones
02:23 PM polprog: beeep brbrbrbree
02:23 PM polprog: :P
02:23 PM Jartza: hehe
02:24 PM Jartza: even the firmware update is delivered as .wav
02:24 PM Jartza: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxYkNrU29Fc2lFYW8/view?usp=drivesdk
02:25 PM nuxil: lol
02:25 PM nuxil: thats awesome
02:28 PM Jartza: the new display has awesome contrast
02:28 PM Jartza: it's in my opinion the best looking 16x2 lcd I've seen
02:28 PM Jartza: https://youtu.be/hmDcT91-jac
02:28 PM Jartza: that video has the new display
02:32 PM polprog: Jartza: it's not HD44780, right?
02:32 PM polprog: 0:07 there's more than 8 custom chars
02:33 PM polprog: indeed the contrast is awesome
02:36 PM Ameisen: what's the fastest avr integer log2 algorithm
02:36 PM Ameisen: I already wrote the constexpr one - I need a runtime one
02:37 PM Jartza: polprog st7032i
02:38 PM polprog: thanks
02:38 PM Jartza: basically same commands & data as hd44780 but i2c
02:38 PM polprog: good to know
02:39 PM Jartza: plus double size text support
02:40 PM polprog: :o
02:40 PM polprog: now i need to get one, damnit
02:40 PM Jartza: hehe
02:41 PM Jartza: I can sell you few displays :p
02:44 PM Jartza: of course I can sell tagsus too when next batch is made :)
02:46 PM Jartza: I'm aiming to february
02:46 PM polprog: i keep my fingers crossed
02:52 PM nuxil: i can i buy displays from you too ? :p
02:54 PM Jartza: well I'm gonna make batch of 500 and I have 1000 displays, so I can sell few and still have enough of spares for the rest of my life, lol
02:55 PM nuxil: im willing to buy a couple of your hand.
02:56 PM Jartza: I need to figure out how much they did cost
02:56 PM nuxil: yea. do your math and tell me how much you want per pize :) i will ofc pay for the shipping.
02:56 PM Jartza: but yea, I could sell them in small batches, nice displays they are
02:57 PM Jartza: I will search the invoice tomorrow to find out the price
02:58 PM nuxil: no hurry. i dont need them anytime soon.
02:59 PM nuxil: im thinking it can be handy to have some laying around in the future :p
03:01 PM nuxil: i want to redo my function generator project using a atmega324p-20 since it has a 16bit timer. and i for sure want some display on it :)
03:02 PM Emil: Ameisen: integer? as in floor?
03:03 PM Emil: Closest n such that 2^n is not greater than the value requested?
03:03 PM Ameisen: closest n such that 2^n fits the value requested, so ceil
03:03 PM Emil: oh ceil
03:04 PM Emil: So closest n such that value fits inside 2^n
03:05 PM Ameisen: correct
03:05 PM Emil: For fastest
03:05 PM Emil: I'd say it's a lookup table
03:06 PM Emil: for best average case
03:06 PM Emil: and for multibyte ones, reduce to one byte and then lookup
03:08 PM Jartza: nuxil: yeah, prolly I can sell them around 5€-9€, but I need to see how much we did pay for them :) as I can't really remember, we bought them already over a year ago
03:08 PM Emil: Jartza: I'll buy two
03:08 PM nuxil: i get 5 :p
03:08 PM Emil: or 4 if it's 5 euros :D
03:08 PM nuxil: or 10
03:09 PM Emil: Ameisen: but
03:09 PM Emil: Ameisen: a binary tree is rather efficient also
03:11 PM Emil: Basically you just want the index of the highest bit plus 1 if there's bits set under it
03:20 PM Jartza: yeah, I guess I find the email invoice tomorrow
03:20 PM Jartza: now I'm on sofa with cellphone, too slow search in phone email :)
03:25 PM Jartza: I need to add VAT and tiny profit to price, as they are bought by my company
03:26 PM Jartza: I try to keep the price reasonable, not gonna make huge profits anyway by selling few displays, haha
03:27 PM polprog: depends on the price you ask
03:28 PM Jartza: depends on the price I paid, which I can't remember
03:28 PM nuxil: yea. i want a couple anyway. in resonable prize range.
03:28 PM polprog: "Unique electronic art piece, late 2015" $10'000
03:29 PM Jartza: I don't have a need to rip people off because of few displays :D
03:29 PM polprog: just hit me
03:29 PM polprog: ...
03:29 PM polprog: what licence is OSHW anyway?
03:29 PM polprog: can someone take an OSHW design and sell devices?
03:29 PM Jartza: I'm still gueasing the price is closer to 5€ than 9€
03:29 PM polprog: licensing can be a bitch
03:30 PM Jartza: polprog: depends what ohhw license
03:30 PM Jartza: oshw*
03:30 PM Jartza: oshw itself isn't a license
03:30 PM nuxil: just like open source isnt a license itself
03:31 PM polprog: i expect many licenses to exist
03:31 PM polprog: im curious which one is the most common
03:31 PM nuxil: you can have os and it be restricted stuff. open source dosnt need to be gpl-X
03:31 PM polprog: i disklike GPL for many reasons
03:32 PM nuxil: gpl3 for you then :p ?
03:32 PM nuxil: it allows you to set restriction and close your code iirc.
03:32 PM Jartza: actually hardware license is hardee
03:32 PM Jartza: harder
03:33 PM Jartza: you can patent something but tagsu doesn't have such unique hw features
03:33 PM polprog: i like 3 clause BSD for software
03:33 PM Jartza: so probably anyone can sell tagsus if they want
03:34 PM polprog: "provided AS IS, author's name may not be used to endorse etc."
03:34 PM Jartza: but firmware is different thing
03:34 PM polprog: in any case i can type another point that suits my needs
03:34 PM Jartza: the problem then becomes, can they sell tagsus with original firmware binary-only
03:34 PM polprog: "not to be used on friday evenings" "may not be sold in North Korea"
03:35 PM Jartza: and that then depends of the firmware license
03:35 PM polprog: that's arguable whether flashed firmware is software imo
03:36 PM polprog: for example
03:36 PM polprog: iirc in Polish law
03:36 PM polprog: Source code is *not* considered creative work
03:36 PM polprog: but documentation is
03:36 PM nuxil: in norway you cant take patent on code
03:36 PM polprog: ^^
03:36 PM polprog: that's what i wanted to say
03:36 PM Jartza: sure
03:37 PM Jartza: the whole issue is large and more vague than just one license
03:37 PM Jartza: national laws, international laws, international trademarks and patent laws plus copyright laws
03:37 PM polprog: and in the end
03:38 PM nuxil: eu laws. us laws. aisan laws :p its amess :p
03:38 PM polprog: there's always one company like Flir for example
03:38 PM polprog: using Linux in it's embedded products but refusing to release code. or maybe it was someone else
03:38 PM nuxil: acually. aisan laws dont exist. they clone and copy everything
03:38 PM Jartza: lot of companies do that
03:39 PM nuxil: tivo
03:39 PM nuxil: didnt tivo do that
03:39 PM Jartza: or just release the source code for vanilla-linux they started with
03:39 PM polprog: :P
03:40 PM Jartza: I think some wifi-ap manufacturer did that
03:40 PM nuxil: i can recall i saw a video and linux ranting some about tivo and gpl3
03:40 PM nuxil: *linus
03:41 PM Jartza: they basically packed vanilla openwrt to .zip file and said "here is source" without giving any hw-drivers nor modified source
03:41 PM polprog: arguably they might be right
03:41 PM Jartza: but in the end, with tagsu I probably won't care :)
03:41 PM polprog: the code they write is theirs
03:42 PM polprog: in fact.. if i made a pcb, probably all i would want would be my name or site on it
03:42 PM polprog: singature
03:44 PM Jartza: well, it always comes back to licenses. if the code is based heavily on gpl-code, how much is "theirs"
03:47 PM nuxil: Gpl-2 is clear on that. if you do any modification you must release the source.
03:48 PM nuxil: its a term you accept when using the code. not doing so is breaking the lisence. simple as that.
03:48 PM Emil: Jartza: welll
03:48 PM Emil: Those drivers are separate works
03:49 PM Emil: I'm just frankly surprised automatic assembly to C compilers aren't better and in wider use
03:49 PM Jartza: Emil: not id they depend on gpl'ed kernel code :)
03:49 PM Emil: Jartza: well
03:49 PM Emil: Jartza: that's not a tested concept
03:50 PM Emil: and preeeetty much all lawyers except fsf ones agree that just because you link with a gpl file doesn't mean you are contamined with gpl
03:50 PM Jartza: and it's easy to go around
03:51 PM Emil: but really
03:51 PM Jartza: release source to kernel part that loads custom binary blob
03:51 PM Emil: if we have the fucking binary blobs
03:51 PM Emil: and they aren't encrypted
03:52 PM Emil: the asm - c transpilers/compilers should be in better shape
03:59 PM Jartza: they should
04:08 PM antto: espressif use chunks of linux for their stupid wifi module
04:11 PM polprog: you know the game Netstorm?
04:16 PM Emil: antto: lwip?
04:21 PM antto: Emil no, i think tcp/ip and wifi stacks
04:32 PM polprog: given my recent success in compiling kernel
04:32 PM polprog: how hard would it be to make a simple thingamybob with a display and serial port for general messing around?
04:33 PM antto: by the quake difficulty scale: "hurt me plenty"
04:34 PM Emil: polprog: you want a kernel module?
04:34 PM polprog: okay
04:34 PM polprog: Emil: no
04:35 PM Emil: I don't understand then
04:35 PM polprog: forget that
04:35 PM polprog: doesnt matter.
04:35 PM Emil: https://blog.sourcerer.io/writing-a-simple-linux-kernel-module-d9dc3762c234
04:45 PM nuxil: o.O you can run linux on a 8bit avr.
04:46 PM nuxil: found some pld stuff from 2012
04:46 PM nuxil: http://dmitry.gr/?r=05.Projects&proj=07.%20Linux%20on%208bit
04:46 PM nuxil: sick
04:47 PM Emil: "yes"
05:20 PM polprog: im halfway thru installing my newly compiled kernel on a vritual disk with grub
05:20 PM polprog: night
09:46 PM Evidlo[m]: should this be fairly easy to port to the tiny85? https://emergent.unpythonic.net/projects/01149348342
09:50 PM Casper: tiny to tiny should be easy
09:51 PM Casper: if it do not use an hardware feature that is lacking on the 85
09:53 PM Emil: Evidlo[m]: what's that?
10:51 PM Evidlo[m]: Emil (IRC): a quadrature divider for a motor encoder
10:56 PM Casper: Evidlo[m]: I'm no expert at assembler, but it seems to not use any special function at all
10:57 PM Evidlo[m]: also there's a header file there. is that just a preprocessor thing?
10:58 PM Casper: ... the source code seems incomplete
11:21 PM day__ is now known as daey