#avr Logs

Oct 21 2017

12:03 AM day__ is now known as daey
01:30 AM ohsix: theBear: wut
02:32 AM rue_mohr: Lambda_Aurigae, congrads of having one!
02:51 AM * theBear has always had one.. That's just how bear's come off the factory floor <grin>
03:57 AM rue_shop3: moving around old 8051 boards temps me to play with them
04:32 AM Lambda_Aurigae: love the new 8051/2 chips.
04:32 AM Lambda_Aurigae: high speed core that competes with avr even.
04:33 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and an external memory interface in a 40pin dip package
04:55 AM polprog: what kinda chips are they? havent heard about them
05:03 AM Lambda_Aurigae: ds89c450 is what I use.
05:03 AM Lambda_Aurigae: 8052 clone with high speed core.
05:03 AM polprog: maxim's micros
05:03 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yup.
05:04 AM polprog: how much gear do i need to program them>
05:04 AM polprog: ?
05:04 AM Lambda_Aurigae: single instruction per clock like avr.
05:04 AM Lambda_Aurigae: serial port.
05:04 AM Lambda_Aurigae: well, ttl shifted serial port.
05:04 AM polprog: cool!
05:04 AM Lambda_Aurigae: has a built in serial bootloader.
05:04 AM Lambda_Aurigae: https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/products/digital/microcontrollers/DS89C450.html
05:05 AM Lambda_Aurigae: not much in the peripheral side though
05:05 AM Lambda_Aurigae: 2 usarts
05:05 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and that's about it.
05:05 AM polprog: this would be a good way to discover another architecture
05:05 AM Lambda_Aurigae: no spi, no i2c
05:06 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but it does have an external memory interface.
05:06 AM polprog: what the
05:06 AM Lambda_Aurigae: you can map to data and/or program space.
05:06 AM Lambda_Aurigae: up to 64K of each.
05:06 AM polprog: well, not gonna buy them in tme... 40$
05:06 AM Lambda_Aurigae: daym.
05:06 AM polprog: it's on the list then..
05:06 AM Lambda_Aurigae: free samples here...hehe
05:06 AM polprog: lucky
05:07 AM Lambda_Aurigae: shit..21 dollars from digikey!
05:07 AM Lambda_Aurigae: that's outrageous.
05:07 AM Lambda_Aurigae: specially for an 8bit micro.
05:07 AM polprog: i can have a whole computer for half that price
05:07 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah.
05:07 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but it does run at 32MHz! hehe
05:08 AM polprog: interesting to look at
05:08 AM polprog: maybe i will get my hands on one
05:08 AM polprog: wonder how many appliances have those :D
05:10 AM Lambda_Aurigae: well
05:11 AM Lambda_Aurigae: 8051 is still the most used in production microcontroller.
05:11 AM polprog: i could just scavenge them
05:11 AM Lambda_Aurigae: remotes, TVs, toasters, etc.
05:11 AM polprog: if you say so, it is worth to look at
05:12 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and 2051, the baby brother.
05:12 AM Lambda_Aurigae: they have been around a very long time.
05:12 AM Lambda_Aurigae: one of the first.
05:12 AM Lambda_Aurigae: the core is licensed by many manufacturers,,,like arm
05:12 AM Lambda_Aurigae: not all have that nice serial bootloader though.
05:17 AM NoHitWonder2: cool chip, i wonder if i can get a free sample
05:17 AM NoHitWonder2: i used to order shit ton of free samples from maxim
05:17 AM polprog: how exactly do you order free samples?
05:18 AM polprog: just register, regquest and hope they will give you something?
05:18 AM Lambda_Aurigae: find the samples link, register, request.
05:18 AM Lambda_Aurigae: maxim has sent me a shitton of stuff over the years.
05:18 AM NoHitWonder2: you go to their website, log in, choose a part and request a free sample
05:18 AM NoHitWonder2: at least back in the day
05:18 AM Lambda_Aurigae: more than microchip even.
05:18 AM Lambda_Aurigae: you gotta learn how to fib on the requests sometimes.
05:18 AM Lambda_Aurigae: depends on the manufacturer.
05:18 AM NoHitWonder2: and it worked with TI too
05:19 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I've gotten samples from ti, maxim/dallas, allegromicro, pactec, atmel, microchip, freescale, and even ftdi
05:19 AM NoHitWonder2: but i think they might have new policies
05:20 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I stopped tracking about 10 years ago but at that point was about 5 years on the samples kick and had over 2000 dollars worth of stuff.
05:20 AM Lambda_Aurigae: or maybe it was just over 3000...something like that.
05:20 AM Lambda_Aurigae: allegromicro was nice for motor controller chips
05:21 AM Lambda_Aurigae: pactec makes enclosures.
05:21 AM polprog: i think ill register somewhere
05:21 AM Lambda_Aurigae: they all still do samples but aren't all as free as they used to be.
05:21 AM Lambda_Aurigae: microchip is still the best for it.
05:21 AM Lambda_Aurigae: maxim is still good too.
05:21 AM Lambda_Aurigae: make up a project, estimate in the 10K a year range.
05:22 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I've been contacted maybe 4 times in the last 10 years about requests from the above list.
05:22 AM Lambda_Aurigae: like, phone call contacted.
05:22 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I talk a good line and run with it..hehe
05:23 AM Lambda_Aurigae: hell, TI even occasionally sends me sampler packs of new chips...twice a year or so on average.
05:23 AM Lambda_Aurigae: like, they pick a chip they want to promote and send a pack with 3 of every package that chip comes in.
05:23 AM Lambda_Aurigae: without me even asking.
05:23 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I'm on their preferred developer list or some such.
05:24 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I have chips that there is no way I will ever solder...or even make or acquire a board to solder them on to.
05:25 AM Lambda_Aurigae: little 6 lead things the size of a grain of rice.
05:25 AM Lambda_Aurigae: 6 pad rather...no actual leads.
05:25 AM Lambda_Aurigae: ok..time to go clean out the truck.
05:26 AM Lambda_Aurigae: being given an almost new commercial AC compressor and condenser unit...just need a professional to install them in my house.
05:26 AM Lambda_Aurigae: plus a bunch of steel shelving and bricks and workshop light fixtures and STUFF!
05:41 AM NoHitWonder2: Note: Public domain emails like google and yahoo cannot place sample orders
05:41 AM NoHitWonder2: that's what says on the maxim site
05:48 AM NoHitWonder2: when i try to order a sample it just says: Your session expired. Please login and try again.
05:48 AM NoHitWonder2: every time
05:51 AM Snert: drink upstream from the herd.
06:02 AM Lambda_Aurigae: this is why I have my own domain.
06:02 AM Lambda_Aurigae: one of the many reasons anyhow.
06:02 AM Lambda_Aurigae: microchip/atmel has 8051/8052 and 2051 chips.
06:02 AM Lambda_Aurigae: http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/AT89C2051
06:07 AM Lambda_Aurigae: http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/doc1920.pdf
06:07 AM Lambda_Aurigae: http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/AT89C51RC
06:07 AM Lambda_Aurigae: better
06:08 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but those need a 12V programmer
06:13 AM Lambda_Aurigae: http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/AT89C51RC2 higher end version
06:14 AM Lambda_Aurigae: including serial bootloader!
06:23 AM Lambda_Aurigae: pretty sure I have some at89c51rc2 chips here.
06:25 AM Lambda_Aurigae: $6.54 USD each from digikey
06:28 AM NoHitWonder2: well, i ordered from microchip
06:28 AM NoHitWonder2: that AT89C51
06:29 AM NoHitWonder2: C2
06:29 AM NoHitWonder2: no problems there
06:31 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah..microchip will send anything to anybody it seems.
06:32 AM Lambda_Aurigae: they have called me once on something.
06:32 AM Lambda_Aurigae: then sent me some other toys after a nice half hour chat with the rep.
06:33 AM Lambda_Aurigae: ok...time to go head for the office...got a bunch of stuff there to haul off and sell on craigslist or ebay.
10:00 AM polprog: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskElectronics/comments/77qpwc/is_solder_conductive/
10:02 AM Lambda_Aurigae: https://hackaday.io/project/19955-witch-e-decimal-based-computer/log/69335-dont-ruin-your-children
10:02 AM Lambda_Aurigae: another to go with that.
10:02 AM Lambda_Aurigae: she must have some serious tough callouses on her hands.
11:35 AM Snert: polprog: typical of the worthless server of reddit commentarty
11:36 AM Snert: reddit is just a sewer
11:36 AM Snert: worthless and devoid of value
12:05 PM BongoShaftsbury: snert depends on what you're looking for
12:07 PM Snert: I don't have a shovel big enuff to plow throo the crap and misnformation and blathering.
12:08 PM Snert: google suits me just fine.
02:17 PM polprog: Snert: i mostly visit reddit for tales from tech support and it stuff
02:17 PM polprog: never news
02:17 PM polprog: or politics at all
02:17 PM polprog: i just found that question absolutely hilarious
02:17 PM polprog: :D
02:39 PM JanC is now known as Guest24634
02:39 PM JanC_ is now known as JanC
04:36 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
04:41 PM Snert: yea I like twitter for humor too
05:12 PM Dragoneye: Ploved a squere in my driveway to installing an induction loop, 50M from house, can I use a cat 5 cable to transmitt AC + signal in same cable to the detector? (which is at the loop)
05:13 PM Dragoneye: Ploved a squere in my driveway to installing an induction loop, 50m from house, can I use a cat 5 cable to transmitt AC + signal in same cable to the detector? (which is at the loop)
05:17 PM Dragoneye: Guess everybody is sleeping.
05:22 PM Lambda_Aurigae: need more details.
05:23 PM Lambda_Aurigae: guessing you mean "plowed"
05:25 PM Lambda_Aurigae: most cat5 will not survive long buried in the ground unless it is rated for such.
05:50 PM HighInBC is now known as highinbc
05:53 PM Dragoneye: Lamda_Aurigae: Plwed is correct. I am using plastick tubes
05:54 PM * Dragoneye Plowed
05:55 PM Dragoneye: But that is not the question, I'm worried about the ac current disturbing the signal cables?
05:55 PM Lambda_Aurigae: all depends on the frequencies.
05:55 PM Dragoneye: 50Hz
05:55 PM Lambda_Aurigae: is your signal a harmonic of 50Hz?
05:56 PM Dragoneye: signal is on / off short og open
05:56 PM Lambda_Aurigae: quite often power and signal are sent across the same line.
05:56 PM Dragoneye: usual dc current in same cable, but im using 50Hz ac
05:59 PM Dragoneye: loop detector 50m away, using 12V AC as power. Getting relay shut/open back in the same cable. Guess this is ok?
05:59 PM Lambda_Aurigae: so your signal is a dc level over the AC?
06:01 PM Dragoneye: ac to power the loop detector, getting the return signal as two wires shut or open.
06:02 PM Dragoneye: its a relay in the detector :-)
06:02 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I'm not able to picture it in my mind without a schematic.
06:03 PM Dragoneye: Ok, i'll draw one.
06:03 PM Lambda_Aurigae: doing something this complex without a schematic?
06:04 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I would make a small version and test it before digging trench and laying out cable.
06:08 PM Dragoneye: http://tinyurl.com/ycy76x8d
06:09 PM Dragoneye: Cannot make small version of 50m cable? :-)
06:09 PM Dragoneye: it works with a few cm ofcourse
06:09 PM Lambda_Aurigae: sorry but that schematic makes absolutely no sense to me.
06:09 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I have no frame of reference.
06:10 PM Dragoneye: its a cat 5 50 meters, with two power lines AC 50Hz, and two lines that is shorted or not
06:11 PM Dragoneye: Switch in the other end
06:11 PM Dragoneye: 50 meters away
06:12 PM Lambda_Aurigae: if you are running your DC signal on different wires from the AC then it shouldn't interfere, in general...however, you could have some crosstalk and get AC on the other wires.
06:13 PM Dragoneye: http://tinyurl.com/ya8kxotk
06:13 PM Lambda_Aurigae: cat5 is generally made to minimize crosstalk between pairs for certain frequency ranges.
06:13 PM Dragoneye: Added a switch
06:14 PM Dragoneye: Ok, så conclusion is to try it out :-)
06:14 PM Dragoneye: http://tinyurl.com/ya8kxotk
06:14 PM Lambda_Aurigae: or get the specifications for the cable and do the math.
06:14 PM * Dragoneye obs
06:15 PM Lambda_Aurigae: no clue what that means.
06:15 PM Dragoneye: Dont bother, have a nice weekend :-)
06:15 PM Lambda_Aurigae: never!
06:16 PM Lambda_Aurigae: weekends are for the weak!
06:16 PM Dragoneye: lol
06:16 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I just don't understand where people who don't speak English natively get all the shorthand stuff that makes no sense.
06:18 PM Dragoneye: So I could guess your age at this point to be around 70?
06:18 PM Lambda_Aurigae: 50
06:18 PM Dragoneye: same as me.
06:19 PM Dragoneye: Guess it has to be the computer background then. Started with computers in 1984
06:20 PM Lambda_Aurigae: a few years earlier for me.
06:20 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I've been online since before online was a thing.
06:20 PM Lambda_Aurigae: ran my own bbs in the 80s
06:20 PM Dragoneye: bbs , me to
06:20 PM Dragoneye: +o
06:21 PM Lambda_Aurigae: ran a fidonet node in the 90s
06:21 PM Dragoneye: nice
06:21 PM Lambda_Aurigae: worked with arpanet starting in 1987 in the military.
06:22 PM Lambda_Aurigae: to me "obs" is Open Broadcaster Software
06:23 PM Dragoneye: So your stuck in the past and dont learn new short words? I'm a HAM so im stuck with it.
06:23 PM Lambda_Aurigae: but, I never had to pay by the byte for my net access.
06:23 PM Dragoneye: lol
06:23 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I was a ham in the 80s.
06:23 PM Dragoneye: obs is a "ohh" word somkindof.
06:23 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I've never seen "obs" used as a word before...it could be obsesses or observes or obvious
06:24 PM Dragoneye: nativ Norwegian
06:24 PM Dragoneye: sorry for that
06:24 PM Lambda_Aurigae: and there we go.
06:24 PM Dragoneye: never forgive myself
06:24 PM Lambda_Aurigae: shorthand from another language.
06:24 PM Lambda_Aurigae: even worse than shorthand from english!
06:24 PM Lambda_Aurigae: he
06:24 PM Lambda_Aurigae: hehe
06:24 PM Dragoneye: :)
06:26 PM Dragoneye: Tanks for the talk/speek/conversation , have to put the cable in the ground. Last day with abow zero deegrees :-)
06:26 PM Lambda_Aurigae: have fun.
06:26 PM Dragoneye: I will, you have a good time.
06:27 PM Lambda_Aurigae: you may want a filter on the DC cable there.
06:27 PM Dragoneye: tnx, look into it :-)
06:36 PM Dragoneye: 120ohm restor on eatch side?
06:37 PM Lambda_Aurigae: no...an AC filter.
06:37 PM Dragoneye: k
06:37 PM Dragoneye: OK (<--- sorry)
06:37 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I think you will find that 50 meters of cable is going to have quite a voltage drop on the DC side too.
06:38 PM Dragoneye: I guess so, but there is just to meature short or open circtuit. ?
06:38 PM Lambda_Aurigae: again, I would test it.
06:39 PM Dragoneye: I am on it :-D
06:39 PM Lambda_Aurigae: might need some kind of buffer or interface between that and the microcontroller.
06:39 PM Lambda_Aurigae: and lightning will make that thing pulse pretty hard....so, an optoisolator would be in order.
06:39 PM Dragoneye: optocoupler to MVU
06:40 PM Dragoneye: not mutch lightning her , Im in north Norway :-)
06:40 PM Dragoneye: s/her/here/
06:40 PM Lambda_Aurigae: one lightning strike within 5km would be enough I would think.
06:41 PM Dragoneye: True
06:41 PM Lambda_Aurigae: induced EMP is one of my hobbies.
06:41 PM Dragoneye: optocoupler would take car of that?
06:42 PM Lambda_Aurigae: will help, yes...and you will need some filtering,,,AC and single pulse filtering...like an MOV.
06:42 PM Lambda_Aurigae: metal oxide varistor
06:43 PM Dragoneye: Got a nice www.ebay.com/itm/100Pcs-Resettable-Fuse-250V-0-03A-30Ma-Jk250-030U-Dip-Jinke-Polymer-Pptc-Ptc-I-N/282467955690?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
06:43 PM Dragoneye: Put one of this in series with optocouplers?
06:44 PM Lambda_Aurigae: mov is different.
06:44 PM Dragoneye: mov?
06:44 PM Lambda_Aurigae: the self resetting fuse will open up with enough current
06:44 PM Lambda_Aurigae: a high voltage spike from lightning will be very low current...won't touch that fuse.
06:44 PM Lambda_Aurigae: metal oxide vaistor
06:44 PM Lambda_Aurigae: it's meant to stop transient spikes.
06:45 PM Lambda_Aurigae: it's what is in surge supressors.
06:45 PM Dragoneye: true, so can I ask what is your advise?
06:46 PM Lambda_Aurigae: filter the living shit out of it, use opto-isolation, and use an MOV on the line on the long loop side of the opto-isolator
06:46 PM Dragoneye: The reseiver end? MCU end?
06:47 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I would have to do some research to give you specifics.
06:47 PM Lambda_Aurigae: yes.
06:47 PM Lambda_Aurigae: mcu---optoisolator---filter---mov---50m loop
06:47 PM Dragoneye: Thank you for giving me additionally things to think about :-D
06:51 PM Dragoneye: noted! Got do get the cable in the ground. Get back to you on the filter stuff if its ok. Freesing time comming up :-)
06:51 PM Lambda_Aurigae: have fun.
06:51 PM Dragoneye: :-)
06:59 PM Lambda_Aurigae: lots of thunder and lightning here tonight...love it I do I do.
07:00 PM Tom_L: same here
09:15 PM enh: Is it possible to explain a total ignorant like me how to control a 12v coil using an avr?
09:16 PM enh: I mean, 12V, 1A, coil
09:17 PM Tom_L: use a transistor to drive it
09:17 PM Tom_L: avr -> base
09:17 PM enh: can this setup invert the coil current?
09:18 PM Tom_L: http://www.learningaboutelectronics.com/images/Relay-driver-circuit.png
09:18 PM Tom_L: invert the coil current?
09:18 PM Tom_L: how so?
09:18 PM enh: to invert the produced field
09:18 PM Tom_L: why would it matter
09:19 PM Tom_L: make sure you put a blocking diode across the coil
09:19 PM enh: i want analog control over the field produced
09:19 PM enh: from -B to B
09:19 PM Tom_L: 1n4148? should do
09:19 PM tpw_rules: -B?
09:19 PM enh: yep
09:20 PM enh: repulsive field, attractive field
09:20 PM tpw_rules: that's like an order of magnitude more complicated than 0 to B
09:20 PM Tom_L: so calculate the base current and feed it from the dac
09:20 PM tpw_rules: you would need an h-bridge
09:20 PM tpw_rules: and PWM
09:20 PM tpw_rules: with all the requisite protection resistors and diodes
09:20 PM enh: sound like german to me...
09:21 PM tpw_rules: http://www.instructables.com/id/H-Bridge-on-a-Breadboard/
09:21 PM enh: I'll google that. Thanks, Tom_L and tpw_rules
09:21 PM Tom_L: there's more than one approach
09:21 PM Tom_L: pwm would work
09:21 PM Tom_L: i control my cnc spindle with an analog signal
09:21 PM Tom_L: same idea
09:21 PM tpw_rules: i suppose you could do an analog h-bridge
09:22 PM tpw_rules: but an h-bridge is what you need to get ±B instead of just +B
09:23 PM Tom_L: alot of cnc spindles use -10v - +10v for control
09:23 PM enh: Can I get 0.5B, or -0.1B with that?
09:23 PM tpw_rules: yeah
09:23 PM tpw_rules: yes
09:24 PM tpw_rules: assuming you PWM it or input analog currents
09:24 PM tpw_rules: cause B is proprtional to current, not voltage
09:24 PM enh: PWM would be fine
09:25 PM tpw_rules: Tom_L: does an h-bridge require the signal voltage to be the same as the motor voltage?
09:25 PM Tom_L: no
09:25 PM Tom_L: most i've seen are pwm control
09:28 PM enh: If I want to levitate a metallic sphere under a coil I only need 0 to B
09:29 PM enh: and a light sensor
09:36 PM enh: IT would be very interesting to levitate an iron powder blob using this technique
09:37 PM enh: Maybe even fuse it while levitating