#avr Logs
Oct 07 2017
#avr Calendar
12:11 AM day__ is now known as daey
01:05 AM Emil: So
01:08 AM Emil: Many is better
01:26 AM carabia: Lambda_Aurigae: i continue admiring your capabilities in providing (PC and) politics-grade vague answers to questions such as those
02:21 AM rue_house: well, I didn't win, but made great progress with the esp8266 today
03:05 AM * antto vomits
03:06 AM rue_house: wireless for wheeled ROV
04:58 AM sabor_ is now known as sabor
06:47 AM Lambda_Aurigae: carabia, I'm just that good.
08:35 AM pcbSebb: Anybody in here that could suggest a good H-bridge driver IC that can handle 4A continuous?
08:36 AM Tom_L: you almost have to go with mosfets much above 3A
08:38 AM Tom_L: https://www.nxp.com/products/power-management/motor-drivers/h-bridges/h-bridge-motor-driver-5-28v-5a-11khz:MC33932
08:39 AM Tom_L: http://www.electronics-lab.com/project/5-amp-h-bridge-dc-motor-driver-using-mc33886/
09:33 AM carabia: morning, a question follows for you orbiting experts, mainly Emil
09:33 AM carabia: how exactly does the fact that earth's avg. orbital speed is about 30 km/s have anything to do with getting to orbit from earth?
09:34 AM carabia: i.e. orbiting earth
09:36 AM carabia: the change in velocity, i.e. dV is dictated by the altitude of the orbit you're going for
09:37 AM carabia: and a few other factors, one of them would not be the orbital speed of earth
09:39 AM renn0xtk9: I want to develop for stm32, I have such boards https://de.aliexpress.com/item/STM32F103C8T6-ARM-STM32-Minimum-System-Development-Board-Module-ForArduin/32581820854.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.v48N6a
09:40 AM renn0xtk9: but it is not clear to my which toolchain i should install
09:42 AM carabia: renn0xtk9: sw4stm32 works pretty much out of the box
09:42 AM carabia: oh,
09:43 AM carabia: the gnu arm toolchain
09:43 AM carabia: ...is your only choice, unless you wanna go piratey or $$$
09:44 AM carabia: and if you've got the $$$ (which you don't :--D) go for KEIL
09:45 AM renn0xtk9: carabia do you have an example of Makefile including the flashin process an dall?
09:45 AM carabia: yes, how much are you willing to pay me for consulting?
09:45 AM renn0xtk9: when i google i keep finding stuff for the discovery stuff, whic if I get it rithg is not compatible with me ( i got st link )
09:46 AM renn0xtk9: well being given that I am hobbyist I would say pretty much 0 dollar ^^
09:46 AM renn0xtk9: if you don't live far away from me I could pay with beers ;)
09:46 AM carabia: i might :--(
09:47 AM carabia: yes you don't want to use the disco stuff really
09:48 AM carabia: i've actually no idea what you've been trying to do so far, or if you've tried anything at all
09:49 AM carabia: first up you're gonna want the st's libs unless you want to rewrite those yourself too
09:51 AM carabia: i would *urge* you, to install sw4stm32 if you have never touched arms before. It comes with the gnu toolchain, and a front-end (well it's eclipse duh) for gdb to debug with openocd, which will be automagic.
09:51 AM renn0xtk9: Well I just received the stuff I sudo apt-get install arm-gnu
09:52 AM carabia: i'll pm you as this is going to be a bit of a longer thing
10:14 AM enh: Hi!
11:21 AM Tom_L: carabia, http://www.qrg.northwestern.edu/projects/vss/docs/navigation/2-why-launch-from-equator.html
11:22 AM Tom_L: like an aircraft taking off the runway into the wind
11:23 AM carabia: and how's this related?
11:24 AM Tom_L: how exactly does the fact that earth's avg. orbital speed is about 30 km/s have anything to do with getting to orbit from earth?
11:24 AM Tom_L: it gives it a boost
11:24 AM carabia: i think your reading comprehension fails by a lot
11:24 AM Tom_L: i think you're asking in the wrong channel :)
11:24 AM carabia: the article describes the angular velocity of earth's spin, and yes obv. i agree
11:25 AM carabia: but the orbital speed of 30 km/s is earth's velocity around the sun, with respect to sun
11:25 AM carabia: speed*
11:26 AM Tom_L: https://spaceplace.nasa.gov/launch-windows/en/
11:26 AM Tom_L: elementary
11:29 AM carabia: and how's this related, again?
11:29 AM * Tom_L gives up and walks away
11:30 AM carabia: well ignorance is bliss, i assume, but this has little-to-nothing to do with launching anything to orbit the earth
11:30 AM Tom_L: but it does
11:31 AM carabia: well but it doesn't
11:31 AM carabia: what it describes is the difficulty of calculating the optimal trajectories for getting to body x
11:31 AM Tom_L: you want the earth oriented when the pull from the sun will give you the most advantage
11:32 AM Tom_L: you wouldn't want to launch in the same direction as the earth spin either
11:32 AM carabia: nothing to do with orbital speed, again
11:33 AM Tom_L: take it somewhere else then
11:33 AM carabia: i wasn't the one originally starting the discussion either, and that's really a non-argument in any case
11:34 AM carabia: it would be you know easier, if we could agree peacefully that it has nothing to do with the orbital speed of earth around the sun, i.e. 30 km/s on avg.
11:34 AM Tom_L: i just gave you 2 links to view
11:34 AM Tom_L: you can do with it what you like
11:34 AM carabia: neither of which you completely understood
11:34 AM Tom_L: and now you just want to argue
11:35 AM carabia: highlight me the parts in either links, which imply that the orbital speed plays a part in getting to orbit?
11:36 AM carabia: because the momentum is carried by the rocket itself, it doesn't magically disappear
11:37 AM Tom_L: why not /j #space and ask them
11:38 AM carabia: well, i know the answer, just that you wanted to prove me wrong
11:38 AM Tom_L: i claim to know nothing about the topic, rather i just posted 2 links i thought you might get something out of
11:38 AM Tom_L: continue arguing and see what happens
11:39 AM carabia: well, it was implied they were somehow related (which they were not), but if what you claim was your intention, then i owe you an apology
12:20 PM Emil: carabia: oh yeah, I took the first number by mistake. LEO speed is about 7,8km/s
12:20 PM carabia: indeed
12:22 PM Emil: Do say when I'm wrong faster, though :D
12:23 PM Emil: no actually
12:23 PM Emil: wtf
12:24 PM Emil: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/Comparison_satellite_navigation_orbits.svg
12:24 PM Emil: no
12:24 PM Emil: ah
12:24 PM Emil: yes
12:24 PM Emil: nvm
12:26 PM LeoNerd: Mmm... 12bit DAC feeding into an analog circuit monitored by a 16bit ADC. Can I hear you say "PID control loop"?
12:28 PM Emil: Hmmm
12:29 PM Emil: I wonder if it's possible to always transform a process loop so that you don't need to remember previous state(s) but can always just apply a memoryless function to a current measurement
12:51 PM carabia: Emil: yeah sorry, was just randomly reading backlogs in the morning
01:20 PM rue_house: LeoNerd, why not pwm with a filter, and adc feedback?
01:21 PM rue_house: make a hybrid 1 bit dac
01:22 PM LeoNerd: rue_house: the board already has a 12bit DAC on it
01:23 PM LeoNerd: Also it's the wrong side of a digital isolator from my MCU, so I can't PWM it very fast. I can switch between two DAC codes a few hundred times a second though, but that's probably best I can do
01:23 PM rue_house: #define NOP() asm volatile ("nop"::)
01:23 PM rue_house: #define ABS(a) ((a) < 0 ? -(a) : (a))
01:23 PM rue_house: #define SIGN(x) (x)==0?0:(x)>0?1:-1
01:24 PM rue_house: LeoNerd, do you know about 1 bit oversampled conversion?
01:25 PM LeoNerd: Yes; basically the opposite of a deltasigma ADC
01:25 PM LeoNerd: Or is it sigmadelta? I forget
01:25 PM LeoNerd: But yes that can only really work if you have a very fast output ability. I don't have that here
01:39 PM Jartza: Fetlang is licensed under the BSDM (BSD, modified) license
01:39 PM Jartza: lol
01:39 PM Jartza: https://github.com/Property404/fetlang
01:46 PM Emil: Yeah I was laughing at that today, too
02:01 PM cehteh: Have Leonhard Euler spank Ada Lovelace haha
02:51 PM thardin: woop, got avr-gcc 8.0.0 to build
02:51 PM thardin: but not to install headers like <avr/io.h> and such. maybe --with-avrlibc will fix that
02:53 PM Emil: eh?
02:53 PM Emil: http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/install_tools.html
02:53 PM Emil: Did you follow this guide?
02:54 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/toolchain here's a condensed version
02:55 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-10-07_22-23-48_pLDa0x4L.png
02:56 PM Emil: thardin:
02:58 PM thardin: https://gcc.gnu.org/install/specific.html#avr
02:58 PM Emil: gcc!=libc
02:58 PM Emil: you need to install libc after and separately of having installed avr-gcc
02:59 PM thardin: so I suspected
03:00 PM thardin: that may be something for tomorrow
03:01 PM carabia: i like you loonix people
03:01 PM carabia: yesterday it was "oh well, i'll install the toolchain tomorrow"
03:01 PM carabia: and today it is "yee fuck this mbe tmrw"
03:02 PM carabia: in the meanwhhhhile i'll just fire up atmel studio, oh well I would if i needed to mess with avrs
03:02 PM Emil: carabia bringing the bantz I see
03:02 PM thardin: I already have avr-gcc. I just want the bleeding edge version
03:02 PM carabia: and you know, i'll just do dW debugging too
03:03 PM thardin: I can set some compiles up while I'm playing tyranny and drinking beer, no problem
03:04 PM Emil: installing the toolchain on leenux is as easy as sudo apt-get install avr-libc
03:04 PM carabia: while you will try to get it working with some reverse-engineered purkkaviri cobbled together by some 18yo pimplefaces w/ openocd and eeeeeveryone knows real men debug gdb with a terminal frontend
03:04 PM carabia: non-finnish speakers may try to look up purkkaviri. no guarantees.
03:04 PM Emil: carabia: shill BEGONE!
03:05 PM Emil: carabia: you weren't Finnish, were you?=
03:05 PM Emil: Who taught you that word
03:05 PM carabia: yeah i am
03:05 PM Emil: wtf
03:05 PM Emil: since fucking when
03:05 PM Emil: whatever
03:05 PM Emil: Go to #stm32 to shill
03:05 PM carabia: stm32 shills are over my head
03:06 PM carabia: and look up the topic
03:06 PM carabia: /topic rather
03:07 PM Emil: it's in jest
03:07 PM Emil: And it's still not for shilling ;)
03:07 PM Lambda_Aurigae: don't forget installing binutils after avr-gcc..or has that changed?
03:08 PM thardin: gcc-avr gets you what you need
03:08 PM Emil: thardin: doesn't
03:08 PM Lambda_Aurigae: you need gcc, binutils, and libc...
03:08 PM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: avr-libc pulls all needed
03:08 PM Lambda_Aurigae: aahh.
03:08 PM Lambda_Aurigae: didn't used to.
03:08 PM Emil: I just checked the dependencies
03:08 PM thardin: one of those is the metapackage
03:08 PM carabia: how good is dw support in avarice?
03:08 PM thardin: that pulls in everything
03:09 PM carabia: as that's the only choice in lelux
03:09 PM carabia: I figure
03:09 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-10-07_22-37-54_UIZx7EqK.png
03:10 PM thardin: I'd just like to interject for a moment. what you refer to leenux is in fact ganoo/leenux
03:10 PM carabia: quick google reveals breakpoints seem shaky at best
03:10 PM carabia: it's lelux alright
03:10 PM Emil: Ulos avr:stäni homo!
03:10 PM thardin: k
03:10 PM Emil: thardin: not you
03:11 PM Emil: Oh you're a swede
03:11 PM carabia: ^ it is for him
03:11 PM carabia: now anyway, it's not a shill in the sense that well, someone may prove me wrong but seems as if in the rare case for needing dw, atmel studio is still the best bet
03:12 PM Emil: Sure I mean
03:12 PM Emil: if you want to use that horrible debug system :D
03:12 PM Emil: It is best used with the poropietari atmel toolset
03:12 PM Emil: which is not half bad iirc
03:12 PM Emil: I've seen worse
03:13 PM carabia: yesh, why make shit easy for i.e. debugging with an integrated gdb gui frontend, when you can like do gdb in terminal
03:13 PM carabia: easy with* rather
03:14 PM carabia: and then you can do some randomizing whether it will break on breakpoints or not, makes life interesting
03:21 PM Emil: You do know that atmel studio uses avr-gcc, avr-libc and bintutils-avr under the hood, right?
03:22 PM carabia: yes, i do know that
03:22 PM carabia: thooooooough
03:22 PM carabia: you can integrate another compiler
03:23 PM carabia: like IAR
03:23 PM carabia: thing just is, atmel studio does all the version-compatibility-handling for you and in general is guaranteed to work in that regard, for the most part
03:24 PM carabia: well, the maintainers of it do
04:16 PM rue_house: #define IsHigh(BIT, PORT) (PORT & (1<<BIT)) != 0
04:16 PM rue_house: #define IsLow(BIT, PORT) (PORT & (1<<BIT)) == 0
04:18 PM thardin: better add another set of parentheses around those
04:19 PM thardin: or inline function
04:45 PM enh: hi! I see peace in the channel.
04:51 PM polprog: ive just installed solaris in qemu
04:51 PM polprog: funny unix,
04:53 PM polprog: https://puu.sh/xSud3/b93ca14698.jpg
05:31 PM Lambda_Aurigae: sloaris...spell it right!
05:32 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I have an i386 system V release 7 here on 3.5 inch floppies.
05:32 PM polprog: i386 sysv?
05:32 PM Lambda_Aurigae: yup.
05:32 PM polprog: interesting
05:32 PM thardin: wat
05:32 PM Lambda_Aurigae: AT&T unix
05:33 PM Lambda_Aurigae: ported to i386
05:33 PM Lambda_Aurigae: for point of sale systems.
05:33 PM thardin: thought sysv was pdp-8 only
05:33 PM polprog: ^
05:37 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I miss the old sun 3/260 workstations with unix and suntools GUI
05:38 PM Lambda_Aurigae: even had optical mice in 1988 on them.
05:38 PM Lambda_Aurigae: although, you had to use the metal checkerboard mouse pad for them.
05:38 PM thardin: futuristic
05:38 PM polprog: id love to get my hands on a sysv medium
05:39 PM polprog: optical mice in the 80s?
05:39 PM Lambda_Aurigae: actually, I started with the sun 3/260 in 1987 I guess and they were there a couple years before I got there.
05:39 PM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah.
05:39 PM Lambda_Aurigae: very much precision sun mice.
05:41 PM Lambda_Aurigae: https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/historydisplays/FifthFloor/ComputerMouse/MouseMainImages/SunMouse.jpg
05:43 PM polprog: how big is that sysv release?
05:43 PM Lambda_Aurigae: never unwrapped the 15 floppies.
05:43 PM polprog: heh
05:43 PM Lambda_Aurigae: so, about 15 3.5 inch floppies stacked up.
05:43 PM polprog: 15 floppies, thats a pack
05:43 PM Lambda_Aurigae: still shrink wrapped from AT&T
05:44 PM Lambda_Aurigae: pack and a half..they usually came 10 to a box.
05:44 PM Lambda_Aurigae: no clue if the disks are still any good or not.
05:44 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I should dig them out and image them and see if they will install on virtualbox.
05:45 PM polprog: they should, if its i386
05:45 PM Lambda_Aurigae: if they are still any good.
05:45 PM polprog: id try qemu if vbox fails for some reason
05:45 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I got them back in the late 90s.
05:45 PM polprog: oh im sure some good willing people already backed up sysv media
05:46 PM polprog: and made them available on the public net
05:46 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I was doing piecemeal contract work, repairing point of sale systems for several major retail companies around the area.
05:47 PM Lambda_Aurigae: they sent out 20 sets for new computers at a store...I happened to drop one set in my car and forgot about it for a while...only ever opened one or two packs to do the install across multiple machines anyhow
05:47 PM Lambda_Aurigae: start one or two, then flip the first disks to the next pair and get a chain going...one installing while the next is being unboxed kinda thing.
05:49 PM polprog: cool
06:02 PM polprog: goodnight
06:09 PM Lambda_Aurigae: sleep well.
06:34 PM enh: Good night.
11:50 PM rue_house: #define SetBit(BIT, PORT) (PORT |= (1<<BIT))
11:50 PM rue_house: #define ClearBit(BIT, PORT) (PORT &= ~(1<<BIT))
11:50 PM rue_house: #define IsHigh(BIT, PORT) (PORT & (1<<BIT)) != 0
11:50 PM rue_house: #define IsLow(BIT, PORT) (PORT & (1<<BIT)) == 0