#avr Logs
Sep 11 2017
#avr Calendar
12:11 AM day__ is now known as daey
06:58 AM day__ is now known as daey
11:32 AM _enhering_: hi
11:32 AM _enhering_ is now known as enh
11:32 AM enh: hi, _enhering_!
11:32 AM enh: how are you?
11:32 AM enh: Still chatting to yourself?
11:33 AM enh: :/
11:42 AM enh: https://pastebin.com/azRzGV33
11:43 AM enh: Blinker class. Simpler and better.
11:43 AM enh: Why is everything so quiet here?
11:47 AM Lambda_Aurigae: stunned by 200 lines to do what can be done in half that maybe?
12:24 PM JanC_ is now known as JanC
01:51 PM Emil: I smell unnecessary HAL
01:51 PM polprog: that's a hell of a hal
01:51 PM polprog: but enh's thing is modular so you kindof need that
01:51 PM polprog: imo
02:00 PM The_CooIest is now known as The_Coolest
02:19 PM polprog: https://puu.sh/xxhXj/463a9817e3.jpg
02:19 PM polprog: crimpig those was easier than it seemed
02:21 PM Emil: polprog: :D
02:21 PM Emil: polprog: now _that's_ cheap
02:21 PM Emil: and still I doubt it was worth it
02:22 PM Emil: since the jumper cables are cheaaap
02:22 PM polprog: no, it's abot custom plugs to jumpers
02:22 PM Emil: ?
02:22 PM polprog: jumper-jumper cables i have a ton of
02:22 PM Emil: eh?
02:22 PM polprog: this could be bare wires to jumpers
02:23 PM Emil: but why not just cut and/or solder? :D
02:23 PM polprog: it's cheap and esthetic. and i wanna make custom ribbons for stuff. with multi-pin headers. ill order some 2x3 and make myself a proper programming cable ;)
02:24 PM polprog: since my ISP breakout cable is just garbage.
02:24 PM Emil: I have to design myself that pogo pin thing
02:24 PM Emil: and make my own programmer
02:25 PM Emil: I'm dangerously close to entering the realm of secure hardware and computing
02:25 PM Emil: Which basically means just doing fucking everything yourself :D
02:25 PM Tom_L: i got a whole roll of ribbon for that
02:25 PM Tom_L: and probably some 2x3 connectors
02:26 PM Tom_L: actually i think it was 10 cond and i stripped 4 off it as needed
02:26 PM polprog: i want to crimp pin headers since soldering those gives this as a result
02:26 PM Tom_L: yeah i did hundreds of those
02:27 PM polprog: i present you the dragon ISP cable: https://puu.sh/xxijA/af221300f1.jpg
02:27 PM polprog: that's why i wanna crimp those... that cable starts to break slowly.
02:28 PM Emil: polprog: you are joking, right? :D
02:28 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/breadboard/Kit2.jpg
02:28 PM Emil: That's not DIY?
02:28 PM Emil: That actually came with the device? :D
02:28 PM polprog: no! nothing came with the device do i had to make my own :P
02:28 PM polprog: so*
02:29 PM Tom_L: yeah the dragon didn't come with any cables
02:29 PM polprog: Tom_L: those are cute :v
02:29 PM Emil: Wait
02:29 PM Emil: what's a diy box also :D
02:29 PM Emil: faaancy :D
02:29 PM polprog: no, that's the original box :P
02:29 PM Emil: Did you stole it from your job?
02:29 PM polprog: it's artys
02:29 PM polprog: asrtsy*
02:29 PM polprog: artsy*
02:29 PM polprog: no i bought it back in the day
02:30 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/new_kits/USBTinyMkII_B_front_desc.jpg
02:30 PM polprog: my only programmer
02:30 PM Tom_L: that was the fancy one
02:30 PM polprog: TPI?
02:30 PM Tom_L: of course
02:30 PM polprog: what micros is that for
02:30 PM Tom_L: for the 6 pin attiny
02:30 PM Emil: newer ones
02:30 PM Tom_L: or the attiny 20 etc
02:30 PM Tom_L: 40
02:30 PM polprog: hmm
02:30 PM Emil: oh it wasn't the new new one
02:31 PM polprog: maybe i could make one programmer like that, is the design open source ir do i have to design one from sketch?
02:31 PM polprog: or*
02:31 PM Tom_L: for what?
02:31 PM Tom_L: i designed that
02:31 PM Tom_L: used LUFA
02:31 PM polprog: for the USBTiny mk 2
02:32 PM Tom_L: problem now is, it won't work in the newer studios
02:32 PM Emil: Tom_L: nice kit
02:32 PM Emil: Tom_L: what was it for?
02:32 PM Tom_L: and i'm not gonna try to fix it
02:32 PM polprog: LUFA looks nice
02:32 PM Tom_L: all 8bit avr chips
02:32 PM Emil: Tom_L: no I mean
02:32 PM Emil: Tom_L: you made it fancy, you have that case and all
02:32 PM Emil: you did make a series run, right?
02:32 PM Tom_L: i sold a bunch of em
02:33 PM Tom_L: i made serveral batches :)
02:33 PM Tom_L: first 200 or so i soldered by hand
02:33 PM Emil: What was your asking price?
02:33 PM Tom_L: then made a toaster oven
02:33 PM Tom_L: i don't remember now
02:33 PM Tom_L: like $28 maybe
02:33 PM Emil: ballpark?
02:33 PM Emil: That's not too bad
02:33 PM polprog: i wanna make a toaster for pcbs
02:34 PM Tom_L: nothing did TPI back then
02:34 PM Emil: Tom_L: it came with the case and all the accessories in the pics?
02:34 PM Tom_L: no, just the programmer
02:34 PM Tom_L: and cable
02:34 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-09-11_22-03-20_8ZOLmjYj.png
02:34 PM Emil: Just that?
02:34 PM Tom_L: there were slight differences for the extras
02:34 PM Emil: How much was it with the case and accessories?
02:34 PM Emil: I'm interested because I'm thinking about making a product and I need a case for it
02:35 PM Tom_L: iirc $30 for the blue one
02:35 PM Tom_L: but that was a while back
02:35 PM Emil: so ~60 total?
02:35 PM Tom_L: i hand made the cases
02:35 PM Tom_L: no
02:35 PM Emil: Aaah
02:35 PM Tom_L: $30 for the blue programmer
02:35 PM Emil: you hand made them, okay
02:35 PM polprog: gtg, homework :/
02:35 PM Tom_L: it did the samething as the other one
02:35 PM Emil: Tom_L: you used a laser to engrave?
02:36 PM Emil: polprog: ocya
02:36 PM enh: Anything against my 200 line blinker class? :)
02:37 PM Emil: polprog: where did you get your esd mat with those blueprint like lines?
02:37 PM Emil: btw
02:37 PM enh: It can send numeric signals using the led
02:37 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/silkscreen/silk_batch.jpg
02:37 PM enh: and tell me when memory is nearly overflowing, or report an error.
02:38 PM cehteh: somewhere i have led sequencer code where one one defines blink sequneces in strings "r g r b" etc
02:38 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/silkscreen/text.jpg
02:38 PM Tom_L: silkscreen
02:38 PM Tom_L: with UV paint
02:38 PM Emil: Tom_L: that's pretty cool
02:38 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/silkscreen/lid_cutout1.jpg
02:39 PM enh: Tom_L: Really nice!
02:39 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/silkscreen/lid_silk.jpg
02:39 PM Tom_L: all DIY
02:39 PM Emil: Where can I get a teardown esd mat
02:39 PM Tom_L: that's how we roll here
02:39 PM Emil: that has those white blueprint like lines
02:40 PM Tom_L: huh?
02:40 PM enh: Emil: I can send an integer out using the led. It stops blinking continously, waits some cycles off, blinks n times, waits again and repeats
02:40 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/silkscreen/lid_cutout2.jpg
02:40 PM Emil: https://puu.sh/xxijA/af221300f1.jpg
02:43 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-09-11_22-11-55_MvPlokOt.png
02:43 PM Emil: What you can see here
02:43 PM Tom_L: it's just a cutting mat
02:43 PM Tom_L: not esd
02:44 PM Emil: Ah
02:44 PM Tom_L: https://www.grainger.com/product/2CJX1?cm_mmc=PPC:+Google+PLA&s_kwcid=AL!2966!3!50916764757!!!!87507780837!&ef_id=WYkTJwAAAGow10-c:20170911191257:s&kwid=productads-adid^50916764757-device^c-plaid^87507780837-sku^2CJX1-adType^PLA
02:44 PM Emil: Would be cool if it was esd, too
02:48 PM Tom_L: ahh, found it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CEqokrtFI4&feature=youtu.be
02:51 PM Emil: wow that's a lot of work
02:51 PM Emil: for a single box
02:51 PM enh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-3pzi1H3Z4
02:51 PM Emil: Even selling 50 I would have asked a fab to do that for me :D
02:51 PM Tom_L: then the price would have been higher
02:52 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/new_batch/DSC_0001.JPG
02:53 PM Tom_L: probably one of the original batches
02:53 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/new_batch/USB_chips.jpg
02:53 PM Tom_L: kept me outta the bars for a while
02:54 PM Emil: 250 :D
02:54 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/new_batch/cables2.jpg
02:54 PM Emil: 500 :d
02:54 PM Emil: Yeah for that price the fab would have most likely cut the holes for you for a realy small fee
02:55 PM Tom_L: i was ordering by the tube before that
02:55 PM Emil: Yeah I would not assemble more than a few by hand :D
02:56 PM Emil: Programming by hand is fine, though
02:56 PM Tom_L: it's not that hard really
02:56 PM Tom_L: got lots of soldering practice
02:56 PM Emil: Well yeah if you used a stencil and had a nice station
02:56 PM Emil: I can see it being relatively painless
02:57 PM Tom_L: i went thru probably 2 rolls of ribbon
02:57 PM Emil: But still
02:57 PM Tom_L: i didn't really keep track
02:57 PM Tom_L: all hand stenciled, hand cut ribbon, put the ends on etc etc :)
02:58 PM Emil: If I had preorders I would really just have a fab do that for me
02:58 PM Tom_L: you'd need quite a few to make it worth it
02:59 PM enh: Nice work, Tom_L.
02:59 PM Emil: Tom_L: depends how much you appreaciate your time
02:59 PM Tom_L: i'd solder while chatting :)
03:00 PM Tom_L: gawd, that's been ages now...
03:00 PM Tom_L: just looked at the date on the board
03:00 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTinyMkII_1-1c_top.jpg
03:01 PM Emil: It's >2010
03:01 PM Emil: That's like two years ago
03:01 PM Emil: >2000 is like 5 years ago
03:01 PM Tom_L: the stencil says 2011
03:02 PM Emil: yeah, like I said, like two years ago
03:02 PM Tom_L: what plannet are you on? that's 6 yrs
03:03 PM Tom_L: it was a fun project anyway...
03:03 PM Emil: whatcha mean 6? 2017-2011 is ~2
03:03 PM Emil: And 2017-2000 is like 5
03:16 PM woddy is now known as wods
03:36 PM polprog: Emil: that's far off from ESD mat :P it's a cutting mat from a local stationery
03:38 PM Emil: polprog: I didn't know the name
03:41 PM polprog: jfc im sick and tired of all this homework
03:42 PM polprog: Emil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu_SVKewg8M
03:44 PM polprog: bought that small blue chineese servo today
03:44 PM polprog: i made a small trip to a local electronics store, they have good avr supply
03:45 PM polprog: this: http://www.ee.ic.ac.uk/pcheung/teaching/DE1_EE/stores/sg90_datasheet.pdf
03:50 PM Emil_ is now known as Guest88825
03:56 PM x7C3_ is now known as x7C3
03:56 PM andor2007_ is now known as andor2007
03:56 PM mindw0rk_ is now known as mindw0rk
03:56 PM pwillard_ is now known as pwillard
04:02 PM Emil: polprog: sounds good right from the beginning
04:02 PM Emil: polprog: lets see if it pays out
04:02 PM Emil: polprog: how much did you pay for that servo?
04:02 PM Emil: I mean, just order from eBay/Aliexpress/banggood :D
04:03 PM polprog: hmm, 3 euros .
04:03 PM polprog: i overpaid i know
04:03 PM polprog: but that's what you pay for instant
04:03 PM polprog: atmega 8 was 1.5 euros.
04:03 PM polprog: that's still not bad ...
04:04 PM nabil: I have a custom made board with an atmega32u4 on it, I was trying to upload the arduino leonardo's bootlaoder in it with no success (apparently cause wasn't tedected by the computer), does HWBE pin has to be put to ground when uploading a new bootloader
04:04 PM nabil: ?
04:04 PM polprog: ive seen worse :P
04:04 PM polprog: what's HWBE?
04:05 PM Emil: nabil: you tried uploading with what?
04:05 PM polprog: i dont see that in the datasheet
04:05 PM Emil: nabil: and where did you source those chips?
04:05 PM nabil: polprog: Hardware bootloader enable I guess
04:05 PM Emil: lolwat
04:05 PM Emil: no such pin on m32u4
04:05 PM polprog: that's what i said :DD
04:05 PM nabil: with an external programmer USBasp
04:06 PM Emil: nabil: burn the correct fuses and then flash the bootloader
04:06 PM Emil: http://www.engbedded.com/fusecalc/
04:06 PM nabil: give me minute I'll show you with how I burned the fuses
04:06 PM Emil: do you have a crystal on your board?
04:07 PM nabil: HWB pin is pin 33 I think
04:07 PM nabil: yes I have a crystal
04:07 PM Emil: No such pin
04:07 PM nabil: the datasheet gives: pin 33 PE2 (HWB)
04:07 PM nabil: HWB bar*
04:07 PM polprog: datasheet of what
04:08 PM polprog: definitely not mega32.
04:08 PM nabil: of atmega 32u4
04:08 PM Emil: You need to burn a fuse for that
04:08 PM nabil: high fuse to upload the bootloader
04:08 PM Emil: Did your burn that fuse?
04:08 PM nabil: yes,
04:08 PM Emil: Is it a problem that the device goes through the bootloader on every boot anyways?
04:09 PM nabil: the device is working when programming it directly
04:09 PM Emil: what's the problem, then?
04:09 PM nabil: but when trying to upload the bootloader, execution is fine, but I can't find the device on windows, or arduino ide
04:10 PM Emil: the bootloader is only active for a fraction of a second
04:10 PM polprog: what does your board look like
04:10 PM Emil: It's generally not prompetd for with Winshit
04:10 PM polprog: you need an usb-serial converter... or a usb implementation
04:10 PM Emil: Your press upload and then when uploading press reset
04:10 PM Emil: polprog: it's a m32u4
04:10 PM polprog: well yeah but that's just the cip
04:10 PM Emil: polprog: the bootloader implements the usb
04:11 PM polprog: chip$
04:11 PM polprog: but does he connect it via usb?
04:11 PM polprog: or what
04:11 PM Emil: That's apparent ;)
04:11 PM polprog: i doubt
04:11 PM Emil: nabil: check that your cable is connected and you have a clear path
04:11 PM Emil: And that you followed design specifications
04:12 PM nabil: https://imgur.com/o90rhTy
04:12 PM nabil: here is what part of the board looks like
04:12 PM polprog: now were talking :P
04:12 PM Emil: we're*
04:12 PM nabil: after burning the fuses, I checked that they changed as expected
04:12 PM polprog: * we are
04:12 PM Emil: nabil: what's your crystal freg?
04:13 PM nabil: 8Mhz
04:13 PM Emil: nabil: did you try what I suggested?
04:13 PM Emil: Press upload and then when it attempts to upload press reset
04:14 PM Emil: My mini usb board works like that just fine
04:14 PM Emil: If you init usb in your code then it (arduino ide) can also upload code at any point since it recognises the device
04:15 PM nabil: the arduino ide isn't seeing the board
04:15 PM nabil: until now I'm using avrdude for programming
04:15 PM Emil: ...
04:15 PM Emil: yes I know it's not visible
04:15 PM Emil: did you try what I said? :D
04:15 PM nabil: reseting when it is uploading ?
04:15 PM Emil: yes
04:15 PM nabil: I don't have access to the board, but I'll try that
04:16 PM polprog: you can always open up device manager and see if anything show up there
04:16 PM nabil: yes I know
04:16 PM Emil: polprog: it's a fraction of a second
04:16 PM Emil: polprog: it might flash but it disappears instantly
04:16 PM nabil: polprog: it isn't detected there as well
04:16 PM Emil: polprog: you need to be polling for it (which is what the ide does)
04:16 PM polprog: ok, now i get it
04:16 PM Emil: nabil: of course it is not
04:16 PM polprog: i was about to ask how the ide knows then ...
04:16 PM polprog: :P
04:16 PM nabil: but how come the arduino leonardo doesn't have such a problem?
04:17 PM Emil: polling or waiting on an event if such an api works
04:17 PM Emil: nabil: it does
04:17 PM Emil: nabil: if you upload code that does't use the usb it has the exact same behaviour
04:18 PM nabil: I know it has to reset at some point, but it is detected at all times, when seeing boards menu on the ide
04:18 PM Emil: Because it inits the usb
04:18 PM nabil: it isn't the same case with my board
04:18 PM Emil: because you haven't uploaded code that inits usb
04:18 PM nabil: so the bootloader doesn't handle that part?
04:18 PM Emil: Only for a fraction of second
04:19 PM Emil: then it enters application mode
04:19 PM nabil: How the arduino code manages to get it to work ?
04:19 PM Emil: it inits the usb
04:19 PM Emil: and the init passes known device strings
04:20 PM Emil: you can see that with dmesg
04:20 PM nabil: giveme minute to find the command I used to burn the fuses, just to be sure I wasn't mistaken ther
04:20 PM nabil: there*
04:22 PM Emil: polprog: that music was okay
04:22 PM nabil: Emil: not the hole command, just the part at the end
04:22 PM nabil: -v -e -U lfuse:w:0xde:m -U hfuse:w:0x96:m -U efuse:w:0xf3:m
04:22 PM polprog: Emil: remind me the title, "starchild"
04:22 PM polprog: ?
04:23 PM Emil: hm?
04:23 PM Emil: yeah the starchild one
04:23 PM polprog: yeah it was "starchild" by Starchild :P
04:23 PM polprog: good fast rave for workshop dwelling
04:23 PM Emil: The high pitched voice was a bit off
04:24 PM Emil: but otherwise pretty good
04:24 PM polprog: yeah... too childish
04:24 PM Emil: exactly
04:26 PM polprog: hope ill find time to get crack that servo.. or the sensor pcbs come
04:26 PM polprog: they should've came today :/
04:30 PM Emil: Whatcha doing with it?
04:30 PM Emil: Servos are suuper simple
04:30 PM polprog: i'd be happy to make it turn
04:30 PM polprog: then maybe two "useless" devices connected via serial
04:31 PM polprog: or a useless device. you push a button, the alarm starts, you push again, it stops, the lid closes and hides the button, it start beeping again.
04:32 PM polprog: or something similarly stupid
04:32 PM polprog: i could connect several of them with simple serial
04:33 PM Emil: set up the 16 bit timer to fastpwm mode where you select top with say ICR1 to get a freq of 50Hz
04:33 PM Emil: then adjust OCR1n to get 1.5ms
04:33 PM polprog: ive got a couple of ideas
04:33 PM Emil: and then change between 1ms and 2 ms
04:33 PM polprog: tbh i expected that to be spi not some odd pulse width stuff :P
04:33 PM Emil: hm?
04:34 PM polprog: nvm
04:34 PM polprog: that was stupid.
04:34 PM polprog: external SPI needs 6 wires in total
04:34 PM Emil: nooo it doesnt
04:34 PM Emil: well sure your total connections might require that
04:35 PM Emil: I'm actually looking into doing a fucking parallel bus for this one thing :D
04:35 PM Emil: SPI is too god damn slow
04:35 PM Emil: 32 cycles I mean wtf
04:35 PM polprog: hardware SPI too slow
04:35 PM polprog: wt
04:35 PM polprog: f
04:36 PM Emil: parallel bus is moar speed
04:36 PM polprog: get an FPGA then.... fastah
04:36 PM Emil: moar bandwidth
04:36 PM polprog: FIBER
04:36 PM Emil: polprog: arm would be the way
04:36 PM polprog: all i wanted all i needed is here in my arms
04:36 PM Emil: arm with DMA <3
04:36 PM polprog: <#
04:36 PM polprog: DMA, never used but i love the concept
04:37 PM Emil: All I want is an avr with faster clock, moar all memories and dma
04:37 PM Emil: Say like
04:37 PM polprog: mfw use an external CMOS ram connected to serial-to-paralell chip for crude DMA
04:37 PM Emil: 96MHz AVR with 1MB flash that you can also use as non volatile storage and like 128kB ram
04:38 PM polprog: if avrs could execute programs from ram
04:38 PM Emil: polprog: I was actually thinking about adding a ram chip that has separate read and write :D
04:38 PM polprog: :D
04:38 PM polprog: allrighty
04:38 PM Emil: But it turns out
04:38 PM polprog: gotta sleep ;)
04:38 PM Emil: that those are hard to source
04:38 PM Emil: for a reasonable price
04:38 PM Emil: good night
04:38 PM Emil: same
04:39 PM polprog: ah no, gotta pack for school first...
04:48 PM atk is now known as t-
04:52 PM t- is now known as Arch-TK
04:52 PM Arch-TK is now known as t-
05:00 PM t- is now known as atk
05:53 PM nabil: Emil: http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc7618.pdf check out this one
05:57 PM Emil: whataboutit
06:13 PM nabil: It's talks about the bootloader that ships with some of the atmel mcus
06:13 PM Emil: Yes?
06:13 PM Emil: And?
06:13 PM nabil: hence the existence of the HWB pin
06:14 PM Emil: Yes?
06:14 PM nabil: That's it :D
06:16 PM Emil: Yeah I was wrong about it not existing. It's there alright. But it's used extremely rarely
06:17 PM nabil: I didn't know about it as well, just found it on the internet when trying to find a solution to my probleù
06:17 PM Emil: Ah
06:17 PM Emil: Okay
06:48 PM nabil: Need some help
06:48 PM nabil: when flashing the atmega32u4, I need to set the boot reset vector enable right?
06:51 PM Tom_L: i've always used the onboard bootloader
06:52 PM Tom_L: you can use ISP but it will erase the bootloader
06:53 PM Tom_L: you program them differently using the bootloader
06:53 PM Tom_L: via usb
06:53 PM Tom_L: not a isp programmer
06:53 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTiny_Mkii_User_manual_index.php
06:53 PM Tom_L: explains the process. i used it to program my programmers
06:54 PM Tom_L: which were atmega32U2
06:56 PM Tom_L: gnd HWB then pulse reset to put it into programming mode
06:56 PM Tom_L: using either FLIP or DFU programmer
06:57 PM Lambda_Aurigae: Tom_L, your usbtiny boards still have that bootloader do they?
06:57 PM Tom_L: afik they do
06:57 PM Tom_L: they better :)
06:58 PM Tom_L: i just plugged em into the usb port to program em
06:58 PM Tom_L: quick n easy
07:05 PM enh: Tom_L: How much do you charge for each programmer?
07:05 PM Tom_L: you just asked me that
07:06 PM Tom_L: err maybe it was Emil
07:07 PM Tom_L: anyway, it's ^^ up there somewhere
07:14 PM enh: I have an Atmel ICE and two dead usb tinys.
07:28 PM enh: A second working programmer that is compatible with avrdude would be useful.
07:33 PM Lambda_Aurigae: 5 wires and a parallel port.
07:33 PM Lambda_Aurigae: add in a 74ls244 or 74ls125 as a buffer if you don't trust your on the fly wiring abilities.
07:33 PM cehteh: ebay usbasp cost as much as the wires :D
07:34 PM Lambda_Aurigae: and is half as reliable.
07:34 PM cehteh: haha
07:34 PM cehteh: i tihnk i dont have any computer with a parallel port anymore
07:34 PM cehteh: and the usbasp's i have usually worked
07:34 PM enh: I think that too. Is there a USB to parallel device?
07:35 PM cehteh: when there was some fail it usually was some bad usb cable
07:35 PM cehteh: just get a usbasp and done
07:35 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I currently have 2 laptops with parallel ports(i5), 1 i7 laptop with a docking station and parallel port on the dock, and half a dozen desktops from i3 to i5 class with parallel ports.
07:35 PM cehteh: thats you, not me
07:35 PM Lambda_Aurigae: usb-parallel devices do not provide a bitbanged parallel port
07:36 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I've tried.
07:36 PM enh: You keep this power house turned on all the time, Lambda_Aurigae?
07:36 PM Lambda_Aurigae: so many people get that usbasp then need to upgrade it...and they get so frustrated because it's the only programmer they have.
07:36 PM Lambda_Aurigae: enh, no....most of the computers are for kids who come play in my workshop.
07:36 PM Lambda_Aurigae: and learn electronics and build robots there.
07:37 PM Tom_L: heck, use the ISA buss
07:37 PM Tom_L: rue did
07:38 PM Lambda_Aurigae: did he do ISA too?
07:38 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I know he used the IDE port.
07:38 PM Lambda_Aurigae: bitbanged IDE port like it was a parallel port.
07:38 PM Tom_L: maybe it was ide, i forget
07:38 PM Lambda_Aurigae: is doable on an ISA port too I suppose.
07:39 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I've built ISA interfaced gpio cards pre-microcontroller time.
07:39 PM * cehteh is still working on the new computer setup, and filed a RMA to amd because of the famous ryzen segfault bug :D
07:39 PM cehteh: badblocks on 8TB disks taking forever
07:40 PM Lambda_Aurigae: ouch.
07:40 PM Tom_L: i wish i could figure out why this new MB won't run 16bit programs in a cmd window
07:40 PM Lambda_Aurigae: Tom_L, it's infested.
07:40 PM Tom_L: yeah, with 10 support
07:40 PM cehteh: all linux here :D
07:40 PM Tom_L: it had the M.2 plug which attracted me
07:41 PM cehteh: try a dosbox :)
07:41 PM Lambda_Aurigae: cehteh, my bestest computer here is a dell poweredge T420 dual 3GHz Xeon with SAS drives.
07:41 PM Tom_L: i have a dos box sir
07:41 PM Tom_L: several in fact
07:41 PM Tom_L: and linux
07:41 PM Tom_L: and windows nt
07:41 PM cehteh: the software i mean
07:41 PM Tom_L: and windows 7
07:41 PM Lambda_Aurigae: makes one hell of a workstation.
07:41 PM Tom_L: and windows 8.1
07:41 PM Tom_L: and windows 10
07:41 PM Tom_L: and ubuntu
07:41 PM Tom_L: and debian
07:41 PM cehteh: https://www.dosbox.com/
07:41 PM Tom_L: phew i'm outta breath..
07:41 PM Tom_L: oh
07:41 PM Tom_L: i run dos 6.22
07:41 PM cehteh: i have only linux here
07:42 PM Tom_L: i know it's the MB though
07:42 PM cehteh: and except for that segv bug the new rig works amazingly
07:43 PM cehteh: well the bug hardly happens, only in artifical tests, but i want to use it as sofware build farm and CI
07:43 PM cehteh: i thought windows dropped 16bit support long time ago?
07:43 PM Tom_L: i'm running windows 7 on that
07:43 PM Lambda_Aurigae: only thing I would change on the T420 is to replace the 15Krpm dual channel SAS drives with dual channel SAS SSDs
07:44 PM cehteh: i have PCI SSD's :D
07:44 PM Lambda_Aurigae: Tom_L, it sounds like something mickysoft is doing artifically on that chipset.
07:44 PM Tom_L: the M2 trippled my ssd io
07:44 PM cehteh: they will do the frontend cache and log for the HDD's
07:45 PM cehteh: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJO66zUWAAIHzov.jpg
07:45 PM Tom_L: it may be the intel B250 chipset
07:45 PM Lambda_Aurigae: this t420 has a nice SAS caching controller with 1GB of ram cache on it.
07:45 PM Lambda_Aurigae: and battery backup for the cache eliminate write faults with power fluxes
07:45 PM Tom_L: gawd, you got all sorts of room for SSDs on tht
07:45 PM Tom_L: that
07:46 PM Tom_L: unless you're using it for a heater in the winter
07:46 PM Lambda_Aurigae: that's the plan for my t420 workserver
07:46 PM cehteh: i had to keep an eye on power consumption, eletricity is expensive here
07:47 PM Tom_L: at least you got an asrock board in it
07:47 PM Lambda_Aurigae: almost have the wifey talked into putting up a 15KW wind turbine here.
07:47 PM cehteh: we are in the center of the city :)
07:48 PM cehteh: maybe solar panels some day
07:48 PM Tom_L: they always offset the cost of the equipment with the gain you could have realized
07:48 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I'm smack in the center of one of the biggest wind generating areas in the world.
07:48 PM Tom_L: naw i think i am :)
07:48 PM cehteh: florida? :)
07:49 PM Tom_L: Ks
07:49 PM cehteh: these days
07:49 PM enh: :)
07:49 PM enh: cuba
07:49 PM Lambda_Aurigae: there's over 500 wind turbines within visual range of my house if I stand on the roof.
07:49 PM enh: Nice shooting targets
07:49 PM Tom_L: ours aren't that close but they're all over the place
07:50 PM Tom_L: they build em just N of here
07:50 PM Lambda_Aurigae: middle of nowhere iowa.
07:51 PM Lambda_Aurigae: there's a factory here that makes blades from 65 to 85 feet long.
07:51 PM Lambda_Aurigae: one of my clients even.
07:51 PM cehteh: how much costs a kWh of eletricity in usa?
07:51 PM Tom_L: i see trucks hauling em out around here all the time
07:51 PM enh: My brother worked on such a factory here in brazil.
07:52 PM Tom_L: 12 cents
07:52 PM cehteh: thats less than half as much as here :/
07:52 PM cehteh: 25-30 (euro) cents here
07:52 PM Lambda_Aurigae: 2 to 10 cents per kwh here depending on how much you use.
07:53 PM Lambda_Aurigae: the more you use the lower the rate.
07:53 PM Tom_L: that was the national average
07:53 PM cehteh: damn :D i need a loooong cable
07:53 PM Lambda_Aurigae: one hell of an extension cord.
07:53 PM cehteh: just over the border in france its cheaper too
07:53 PM enh: here, thanks to an amazing workers party, the more you use, the more you pay.
07:54 PM Lambda_Aurigae: First 16.438 kWh/Day or first 500 kWh/Mo.
07:54 PM Lambda_Aurigae: 9.189¢/kWh
07:54 PM Lambda_Aurigae: 11.083¢/kWh
07:54 PM Lambda_Aurigae: Next 23.014 kWh/Day or next 700 kWh/Mo.
07:54 PM Lambda_Aurigae: 6.712¢/kWh
07:54 PM Lambda_Aurigae: 11.083¢/kWh
07:54 PM Lambda_Aurigae: Over 39.452 kWh/Day or over 1,200 kWh/Mo.
07:54 PM Lambda_Aurigae: 2.532¢/kWh
07:54 PM Lambda_Aurigae: 11.083¢/kWh
07:54 PM enh: south germany, cehteh?
07:54 PM cehteh: yes
07:54 PM Lambda_Aurigae: low number is summer, high number is winter.
07:55 PM enh: been there some times.
07:56 PM Lambda_Aurigae: those prices are halved in off peak hours too in some areas...I think I live in one of those areas.
07:57 PM enh: we pay around 16c/kWh
07:58 PM zopsi_ is now known as zopsi
07:58 PM enh: plus taxes. Many taxes.
07:58 PM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah...plenty of those here too.
08:02 PM _ami_: enh, taxes might reduces after trump's efforts to revive energy from exported coal. ;)
08:03 PM _ami_: sorry, i could not stop myself. :P
08:03 PM enh: he is a visionaire!
08:04 PM Lambda_Aurigae: he is a spoiled brat playing king of the mountain.
08:04 PM Lambda_Aurigae: at least he has stirred up the hornets nest rather nicely.
08:05 PM enh: I once met a guy who was a visionaire also. He decicde to bury the trash he could not handle.
08:05 PM enh: decided
08:05 PM tpw_rules: wtf is a visionaire
08:05 PM tpw_rules: visionary?
08:05 PM enh: maybe.
08:06 PM Tom_L: somebody with a wild ass idea
08:06 PM enh: Sorry for my bad english. Not native.
08:06 PM Tom_L: probably did too many drugs...
08:06 PM enh: sometimes i missplle wdros
08:07 PM enh: :)
08:07 PM Lambda_Aurigae: he did too much LDS in the 60s.
08:07 PM enh: he probably has a good heart.
08:08 PM _ami_: enh, lol, no. he is EVIL!
08:08 PM enh: and honorable intentions
08:09 PM enh: i never understood that issue with the russians during the elections.
08:09 PM _ami_: if north koreal leader says trum has small hands, he gonna say "fuck! i gonna nuke them"
08:09 PM _ami_: korean*
08:09 PM _ami_: trump*
08:09 PM Tom_L: the problem with a president is that even if there was a good one (there hasn't been in several decades) congress would stop any efforts he tried to make
08:09 PM _ami_: wtf with my english
08:10 PM enh: here in brazil president is not good, congress is not good, politics is not good.
08:11 PM _ami_: enh, politics is NOT good everywehre.
08:11 PM enh: they are sending lots of pictures on whatapp saying that north korea president is gay, with our capital as a background.
08:12 PM _ami_: :P
08:12 PM enh: whatsapp. Shit. My keyboard is mixing letters.
08:13 PM enh: I wonder when human head eating aliens will finally land on the planet and end our pain.
08:14 PM Tom_L: they're the cause of it all. they're dropping magic dust into our atmosphere causing all this
08:14 PM enh: I had forgotten about magic dust
08:15 PM enh: humans are pure and honest without that
08:16 PM Lambda_Aurigae: politics...from poly meaning many and ticks meaning small bloodsucking parasites.
09:20 PM enh: Did you guys do that massive kick thing?
10:03 PM Tom_L: nope