#avr Logs

Aug 17 2017

12:01 AM Casper: rue_shop3: ! I'm installing a flood light outside
12:04 AM Casper: the light come with 3ft of 'extention cord'
12:04 AM Casper: the house is cover with pvc, I was thinking to pass the power wire between the pvc and the sofit just under the roof...
12:04 AM Casper: for the romex wire wire
12:04 AM Casper: do you know what the code say about that?
12:04 AM Casper: I tought of going then in those plastic 'outlet' box, if I can find a cover... Think it would be apropriate?
12:04 AM Casper: with a strain relief for the extention cord... and dunnot about the romex side<
12:04 AM Casper: ... if you still followed what I said...
12:06 AM rue_shop3: between the siding and the soffit?
12:07 AM rue_shop3: you can do a junction in the second one of you want
12:07 AM rue_shop3: but it should be pipe on both sides
12:07 AM Casper: can't just put strain relief on both side?
12:07 AM rue_shop3: I think I need a better idea of what your up to
12:08 AM rue_shop3: you need to extend an existing wire?
12:08 AM Casper: new wire run
12:08 AM rue_shop3: so why does it need a spice?
12:08 AM Casper: wait a sec
12:08 AM rue_shop3: oh, if its got a cord end on it, just use that
12:09 AM Casper: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B06W52B9FR <=== bought this
12:09 AM rue_shop3: put a plug in the first box, but there are still things that dont add up
12:09 AM Casper: crazy bright
12:12 AM rue_shop3: yea I have three of its cousins
12:15 AM Casper: there is no power wire going there, will be in the roof pinion
12:15 AM rue_shop3: FIRST
12:15 AM Casper: just under the ^, so it barelly fit
12:15 AM rue_shop3: open it up, properly attach the ground to something
12:15 AM rue_shop3: thats the one with the motion sensor?
12:15 AM rue_shop3: or daylight?
12:15 AM rue_shop3: hmm mine are 30 and 50W
12:15 AM rue_shop3: maybe they just needed the extra ballast space
12:15 AM rue_shop3: the splices inside aren't that good
12:15 AM rue_shop3: but can be fixed up just fine
12:15 AM rue_shop3: $110!?
12:15 AM Casper: $CAD, and yes, 5 years waranty
12:18 AM Casper: rue_shop3: back too?
12:18 AM Casper: so, anyway, proper wiring would be what? I'm worried about the transition from behind the pvc siding and 'outside'... I don't want to drill the pvc if possible
12:19 AM rue_shop3: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10w-20w-30w-50w-70w-100w-led-flood-light-square-downlights-floodlights-led-lamp-recessed-led/32808164870.html
12:19 AM rue_shop3: so, I suppose $110 is ok
12:20 AM rue_shop3: where does the wire come out of the house?
12:24 AM Casper: will be from under the pvc siding, where it will make a long travel to the veranda, then back inside in a switch box
12:24 AM Casper: rue_shop3: 20$ less, 2-3 months shipping, zero waranty
12:26 AM rue_shop3: I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the warranty you have is not worth the paper its not printed on
12:27 AM rue_shop3: hmm
12:27 AM rue_shop3: how far does it come out under the eave?
12:28 AM Casper: I'm putting the light as high as I can, so the box will be as much in the corner as I can, so a few inch at most
12:28 AM Casper: I know that romex is not to be exposed to the element, technically it won't rain there...
12:30 AM rue_shop3: its fine, its better if you can fish it over the soffit
12:30 AM rue_shop3: sometimes its easy, sometimes its not
12:31 AM Casper: what do you mean by finish it over the soffit?
12:33 AM rue_house: fish
12:33 AM rue_house: pull the wire in order the soffit finish
12:33 AM Casper: maybe I could take a quick pic... brb... I'll attempt a photo
12:36 AM Casper: back
12:37 AM Casper: rue_house: http://i.imgur.com/trrjZxt.jpg
12:38 AM Casper: the light bracket will be like on the 4th line...
12:38 AM Casper: power from the top
12:39 AM Casper: as you can see there is plenty of room there for the wire
12:46 AM Rez is now known as LoRez
12:47 AM Casper: rue_house: finally... what's your best bet on how to do it? romex to extention type?
12:48 AM TheComplaintJar is now known as Smuckerz
12:53 AM rue_house: just put in a plug
12:53 AM rue_house: can you run the power line thru the attic to where the light is?
12:54 AM Casper: look like rue fell asleep....
12:54 AM Casper: oh no... mouse scrolled up woops
12:54 AM rue_house: I cut away* the siding to put on a base plate to mount a light to
12:55 AM rue_house: you could do that with the plug
12:55 AM Casper: if I go in the attic, I need to come back out
12:55 AM rue_house: ( * carefully cut to lap tings for water shedding)
12:55 AM Casper: there is no way to go from the attic to the veranda...
12:55 AM rue_house: you can come out right at that soffit spot
12:55 AM rue_house: ah
12:56 AM Casper: the veranda got added later on, and they continued the roof over the balconey, and closed it up
12:59 AM rue_house: I'd prolly be making judgment calls as I did it, so its hard to say
01:01 AM Casper: I'll probably go at home depot and see what's there...
01:01 AM Casper: I'ld like to avoid the outlet, as I'ld like the wire to serve as a safety if the screw break...
01:02 AM rue_house: if its hardwired in it has to be a CSA approved fixutre
01:03 AM rue_house: but you can plug in whatever you want
01:06 AM Casper: good point...
01:15 AM Casper: that will cost me a little fortune...
01:16 AM Casper: need 2x gfci outlet, 2 metal box, 2 switch, 2 F clip set, plus whatever I'll find to install that light :D
01:43 AM rue_house: you can use the plstic boxes with strain reliefs
01:49 AM Casper: yeah will just check for something cheaper...
01:50 AM Casper: 10.93$ for the box, 5.64$ for the cover, 5.28$ for the strain relief, probably need 2 if I want to not have the romex roaming free at the end...
02:44 AM dan2wik is now known as dan3wik
02:44 AM dan3wik is now known as dan2wik
03:22 AM day is now known as daey
04:03 AM remkooo1 is now known as remkooo
04:05 AM grafi_ is now known as papirkopi
04:10 AM grafi_ is now known as papirkopi
04:19 AM Emil is now known as Guest20468
04:20 AM Guest20468 is now known as Emil_
05:15 AM Emil: Nice klines this morning amirite
05:41 AM shifttymike: Well that was pretty rude of Freenode
05:58 AM remkooo1 is now known as remkooo
06:10 AM Thrashbarg: for those who didn't see it
06:10 AM Thrashbarg: -kline- [global notice] Hi there: freenode is experiencing a large quantity of spam. If you receive links from users you don't recognise, please do not open them. If you are affected, please set usermode +R to block messages from unidentified users.
06:10 AM Thrashbarg: -kline- [global notice] Additionally, while working to minimise this spam, staff error led to the majority of the network receiving a temporary K-Line (network ban). The ban has since been lifted and those affected should be able to reconnect. Please accept our apologies, and contact us if you, or someone you know, still cannot connect.
06:15 AM _ami_: yeah, we are all klined today
06:27 AM polprog: welcome back
06:28 AM Lambda_Aurigae: that didn't last as long as my last kline here.
06:29 AM kline: sorry
06:30 AM kline: i can fix that if you're looking for some sort of personal best :)
07:57 AM day is now known as daey
08:33 AM Emil: Wait, the links were cheese pizza?
08:33 AM Emil: Hot damn
08:36 AM Haohmaru: imma put a positive spell on Lambda_Aurigae
08:36 AM Haohmaru: kline, now you can't touch him, he's invincible ;P~
08:37 AM polprog: why would anyone spam cp
08:38 AM polprog: id understand if those were adverts
08:39 AM Haohmaru: there were ads trying to fool you to abandon freenode and go to oftc
08:39 AM Haohmaru: are freenode and oftc rivals or something?!
10:08 AM Lambda_Aurigae: of course.
10:09 AM Lambda_Aurigae: they get paid by the byte by internet providers!
10:09 AM Lambda_Aurigae: every character you send to freenode is worth 0.0000000000001 USD
10:10 AM cehteh: SEND MORE MONEY
10:10 AM cehteh: ar uppercase characters more worth?
10:11 AM Lambda_Aurigae: nope... half.
10:11 AM Lambda_Aurigae: as they are so annoying.
10:11 AM Haohmaru: how about bold?
10:12 AM Lambda_Aurigae: only if they are paying by the bit.
10:12 AM Lambda_Aurigae: ones are worth twice what zeros are
10:14 AM Casper: isn't bold very expensive for the first character?
10:14 AM Casper: After all, they have to set it up!
10:17 AM cehteh: 𝔒𝔎, 𝔥𝔬𝔴 𝔞𝔟𝔬𝔲𝔱 𝔣𝔯𝔞𝔨𝔱𝔲𝔯?
10:29 AM polprog: cehteh: lol
11:02 AM remkooo1 is now known as remkooo
11:08 AM grazfather: Is there any reason why a binary I ripped would have a call to a function whose address is outside of rom and wider than PC? e.g. call 0x1124 on attiny45?
11:09 AM polprog: possibly error in disassembly
11:10 AM polprog: correct me if im wrong
11:10 AM grazfather: yeah i thought so, this is with IDA. I looked at it in GDB with simavr as well as avr-objdump, all the same
11:10 AM antto: possible reasons i can think of: special function(TM), bad dump, corrupted flash, wrong hex..
11:10 AM polprog: odd
11:12 AM cehteh: doesnt the memory area roll over?
11:13 AM cehteh: while it would be odd when the compiler exploits this somehow
11:14 AM antto: wouldn't the actual program counter wrap instead?
11:14 AM antto: i have no idea
11:14 AM antto: you need an ASM neurosergent
11:14 AM polprog: nurse, logic analyzer please
11:14 AM Emil: I'm pretty happy with getting my esp shit wörking
11:15 AM day__ is now known as daey
11:15 AM Emil: Now onto building a small management software for the connections and it'll be supeeeerb
11:16 AM * antto has an instinctive reflex to vomit when he reads "esp"
11:19 AM grazfather: f8: 0e 94 87 08 call 0x110e.
11:20 AM grazfather: When i use simavr to step over it just goes back to __RESET
11:20 AM grazfather: which could be the intention? but I doubt it, since there's another function that makes more sense that would never be hit
11:21 AM grazfather: could be corrupted flash. I've dumped it a few times with avrdude and it's consistently the same, but that doesn't mean much
11:21 AM grazfather: however the behaviour on board is normal
11:21 AM antto: you say you see a jump to a location outside of the flash space?
11:21 AM antto: are you sure this is actually part of the firmware?
11:22 AM antto: it could be dirty bytes sitting there, uncleared for some reason
11:31 AM polprog: yeah, that most probably
11:31 AM polprog: maybe some data youre interperting as program?
11:34 AM antto: or that
11:34 AM antto: could be some unicode strings >:)
11:35 AM antto: or floating point constants ;P~
11:52 AM Jartza: why did I read the last one "fluctuating point..."
11:52 AM Jartza: :D
11:53 AM antto: because you're scared of things that float
11:53 AM antto: because you don't want to come down here.. with me..
11:53 AM antto: cuz.. YOU'LL FLOAT TOO
12:05 PM grazfather: antto: it seems reachable. I'm happy to share the hex if anyone wants to take a peek
12:07 PM grazfather: http://i.imgur.com/ArDusGG.png
12:07 PM grazfather: thats an IDA screen shot, where they correct word-address PC
12:13 PM antto: sorry, ASM and reverse engineering is quite alient to me
12:17 PM grazfather: no worries
12:19 PM debo: hi. i have a pair of m256rfr2 "ZigBit" boards that i am experimenting with. i have come back to them today after a week or so and one of them simply refuses to reset when i press the reset button. i have to plug the power out and then back in to make it reset. it then powers up normally and goes through the bootloader and into the firmware which prints out a greeting and waits for commands over the console, however, it doesn't respond to any
12:19 PM debo: commands. exactly the same firmware is on the second part which works just fine.
12:20 PM debo: another thing, i cannot program it anymore through the usbtiny, i suppose it is linked to the reset not functioning
12:20 PM debo: i have no clue what could have happened because it was working just fine when i left it
12:21 PM polprog: check the reset button?
12:21 PM polprog: with a meter?
12:21 PM debo: will do
12:26 PM grazfather: oh i have an unrelated question about avr isp: Is it just that when the reset line is held low that somehow activates the SPI stuff and puts it in flashing mode, or does the isp need to somehow 'catch' the avr before it jumps to the reset vector?
12:27 PM debo: polprog: reset button is fine
12:29 PM polprog: maybe the connection is bad
12:29 PM polprog: between the button nd the chip
12:29 PM debo: another thing, i have configured the bootloader (xboot) to start programming when i press the second button on the board during 2 sec after reset. this doesn't work either, bootloader just flashes 3 times and hands the control over to the main program...
12:30 PM debo: well, it is a OEM board and i really didn't even touch it from the last time it worked
12:30 PM debo: so i doubt the connectin went bed, i will check it either way
12:41 PM debo: hm, pressing the reset button doesn't pull the RESET pin to 0, it just takes away some 0.20 V
12:46 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
12:54 PM polprog: see
12:57 PM enh: hi
12:57 PM Lambda_Aurigae: debo, sounds like bad solder joint between something and somewhere.
12:58 PM Lambda_Aurigae: maybe between the buttons and GND
12:58 PM polprog: ^^
12:59 PM Tom_L: ^_^
01:00 PM debo: i will clean the board and check it out with a magnifying glass
01:00 PM Tom_L: beep test it
01:00 PM polprog: check the connection between the button and GND
01:00 PM Tom_L: visual is good but doesn't always catch breaks in circuit
01:01 PM debo: it beeps
01:02 PM polprog: you mean you push the button and the meter beeps
01:02 PM polprog: ?
01:03 PM debo: no, no push of the button. it is the same on the other board
01:04 PM debo: well, to be honest, i don't know which side is GND
01:04 PM polprog: well, use an ohmmeter and check which side it beeps when the 2nd probe is connected to gnd
01:04 PM debo: the other side beeps when i press the button
01:08 PM debo: ok, i have found the ground side of the button and it has a connection to ground. going to the vcc side of the button and the reset pin it beeps when i press the button but not otherwise
01:09 PM polprog: measue the voltage on the reset pin when you press the button
01:09 PM polprog: wait,
01:09 PM polprog: you already did, and it was only 0.2 V less
01:09 PM polprog: than ususa
01:09 PM polprog: *usual
01:09 PM debo: yep
01:10 PM polprog: how much is it normally
01:10 PM debo: 3.3
01:11 PM polprog: what's the name of that board
01:11 PM debo: let me check the exact name
01:12 PM debo: http://www.atmel.com/tools/atzb-256rfr2-xpro.aspx
01:12 PM debo: it's the extension board, not the bare zigbit module
01:12 PM polprog: hmm
01:13 PM polprog: you need to check all the voltages and resistances then, for some reason the button is not pulling down the reset pin to 0V
01:14 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I suspect the programmer circuit is tied to that same point that's having the problem.
01:21 PM debo: looking at the schematic, reset pin is connected to the push button, to the JTAG header and to the pin on a big 20 pin header (which i use for connecting an ISP programmer).
01:22 PM Lambda_Aurigae: now you need a board layout to see what's connected where.
01:23 PM Lambda_Aurigae: and, there isn't a pullup resistor anywhere?
01:23 PM polprog: there should be one
01:28 PM debo: here is what i have available http://www.atmel.com/Images/Atmel-Wireless-ATZB-256RFR2-XPRO_design_documentation.PDF
01:28 PM debo: if you want to take a look
01:55 PM polprog: and a typical throgh hole resisitor
01:55 PM antto: with an ironman mini-figure
01:55 PM debo: about 1 mm i would say
01:56 PM debo: i will give it a try, nothing to lose anyways
01:56 PM polprog: you can then solder a pullup anywhere to vcc and reset pin
02:00 PM debo: you mean without disconnecting the bad resistor?
02:01 PM polprog: no, remove the bad resistor
02:03 PM debo: ok, i should prob take a dog for a walk and come back to it later :). thank you so much for support!
02:20 PM Emil: The boards I made for this project make me feel like a failure as an EE
02:20 PM Emil: >Through hole
02:20 PM Emil: >Using minimum development boards that plug in
02:20 PM Emil: >LM7805xx
02:21 PM polprog: i suppose he doesnt have any smd components
02:21 PM polprog: ah
02:21 PM Emil: Oh there are smd components I'm not a godless infidel for fucks sake
02:21 PM polprog: ???
02:22 PM Emil: But the software is pretty kawaii esp side, well at least the results are. The AVR code itself is solid, though
02:23 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-08-17_21-52-26_IWOU8JwY.png
02:23 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-08-17_21-52-44_WFPTi1BK.png
02:23 PM Emil: Absolutely disgusting
02:24 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-08-17_21-53-22_bG2a58IF.png
02:24 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-08-17_21-53-38_Olj0GhHw.png
02:24 PM Emil: I'm gona throw up
02:24 PM Emil: Well
02:24 PM polprog: god damnit those traces look like they can handle 10 amps
02:24 PM polprog: it's signalling lol
02:25 PM Emil: At least I can drown my sorrow in the idea that I had to make do with what I had
02:25 PM Emil: polprog: maximasing trace width on diy boards is crucial
02:25 PM polprog: ah, making them at home ok
02:25 PM Emil: Yeah lol what the fuck I'm not having these fabbed :D
02:25 PM polprog: that would explain 1 side and 0R jumpers
02:25 PM Emil: They are already finished
02:25 PM polprog: kewl
02:27 PM Emil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNz4ns9zI74
02:27 PM Emil: Server side control of a motor
02:27 PM polprog: the titles of your vids are absolutely amazing
02:28 PM polprog: also, is that a girl i can hear
02:28 PM Emil: :D
02:28 PM Emil: polprog: I try, it's awesome that you notice :D
02:28 PM Emil: polprog: sure is
02:28 PM polprog: also wtf sufrace
02:28 PM Emil: she's one of the project managers
02:28 PM polprog: eww
02:28 PM Emil: polprog: I know T.T
02:28 PM polprog: Näppäimistömysteereitä xD
02:28 PM Emil: It's a valid Finnish word!
02:29 PM polprog: i suppose so
02:29 PM Emil: On the other hand these https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-08-17_21-57-01_tIlOk83R.png arrived today
02:29 PM polprog: what are thos
02:29 PM polprog: e
02:29 PM Emil: It's still horrible using 2.54mm headers but fuck eet
02:29 PM Emil: polprog: glorified motor controllers
02:29 PM polprog: what's wrong with 2.54mm headres
02:29 PM Emil: polprog: basically you take that latter board I threw up on and shrink it
02:30 PM Emil: polprog: absolutely gigantic
02:30 PM Emil: horrible to use
02:30 PM Emil: I need some good general purpose connector
02:30 PM polprog: >gigantic
02:30 PM Emil: They are!
02:30 PM polprog: you havent seen my thyristor
02:31 PM Jartza: evening
02:39 PM Emil: yeah well I we need them by next Wednesday latest :D
02:40 PM Emil: Or the students would have needed them
02:40 PM Emil: They'll probably arrive on Thrusday/Friday, ordered from Seeed
02:40 PM Emil: No sorry
02:40 PM polprog: ofc the price depends on the size and that's the price for 3 pcs of a 10x20 cm baord
02:40 PM enh: Emil, PCBWay
02:40 PM Emil: Elecrow
02:40 PM polprog: board*
02:40 PM enh: I use them
02:40 PM enh: They have a fast shipping rate, and a normal rate
02:40 PM Emil: enh: it's Murican, no help for us, realy
02:41 PM enh: DHL delivered\
02:41 PM Emil: hmm
02:41 PM enh: PCBWay is china
02:42 PM Emil: They can't guarantee delivery in 4 days, though
02:42 PM Emil: Sadly
02:42 PM Emil: Or 5 days
02:42 PM Emil: But their prices are competitive
02:43 PM enh: Never asked for fast deliery. But they placed the PCBs in Brazil in two weeks. A record.
02:43 PM enh: Very competitive
02:43 PM enh: Writem Lynne at service01@pcbway.com
02:43 PM enh: Write
02:43 PM enh: Ask her
02:44 PM enh: She is very nice
02:44 PM polprog: heh
02:44 PM Emil: lol
02:44 PM Emil: What's your commission like?
02:44 PM Emil: 10%?
02:44 PM polprog: :P
02:44 PM enh: No comission.
02:44 PM Emil: two ms
02:45 PM enh: They were very attentive. Found a bug in the gerber before me. Waited to get everyhting ok. Delivered very fast.
02:45 PM Emil: Nice
02:45 PM Emil: Sounds pretty great
02:45 PM Emil: I might try them
02:45 PM enh: I was impressed
02:45 PM polprog: the guy i order at also gave me some tips at first :)
02:45 PM Emil: I should do a huge pcb comparison between all the major players
02:46 PM Emil: Wouldn't cost but like a hundred a bit over euros probably
02:46 PM enh: And I asked for a homemade panel. Pretty complex. 4 layers.
02:47 PM polprog: Emil: quick question, you route first the signals or power?
02:47 PM Emil: polprog: signals of course
02:47 PM polprog: kk
02:47 PM Emil: perhaps some power traces if need be
02:47 PM enh: you use kicad?
02:47 PM Emil: yah
02:47 PM polprog: yeah
02:47 PM Emil: ground planes and via stiching for ground
02:47 PM enh: i migrated from eagle to kicad. Took me a few weeks
02:47 PM polprog: me too actually
02:48 PM polprog: but i used eagle for two days before i hit the free version limit :P
02:48 PM Emil: I've discovered that Oshpark's minimum drill size is absolutely kawaii
02:48 PM enh: but freedom of size and layers in unpayable
02:48 PM Emil: You don't have to waste space for separate gnd vias
02:48 PM Emil: when you can just place a via on the smd pad :D
02:48 PM polprog: wow
02:48 PM Emil: ikr
02:49 PM enh: questions... vias are metalized or they use conductive resin
02:49 PM Emil: If you have a pretty complete ground plane on one side
02:49 PM bss36504: plated through
02:49 PM bss36504: enh: ^
02:49 PM Emil: you can place smd passives preeeetty fucking close together
02:50 PM enh: dielectrica breakdown near surface is below 8kV/ cm due to low pressure near surface. Take care.
02:50 PM bss36504: enh: the holes are drilled, then the copper is slightly chemically dissolved so it sort of sticks to all the hole surfaces, then it is electroplated back to thickness
02:50 PM enh: thanks, bss36504
02:50 PM enh: I was afraid of heating vias and breaking them
02:50 PM bss36504: I saw a video or something of it once, very neat
02:50 PM bss36504: Nope, they should be super strong
02:51 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-08-17_22-20-23_Hc84xMgR.png
02:51 PM Emil: >Who needs space for vias anyways :D
02:51 PM bss36504: In fact, there is a good chance that when you spec a hole size for a through hole or via, it's actually drilled larger then plated out to spec
02:51 PM bss36504: Emil: That's an excellent way to get voiding in solder
02:51 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-08-17_22-20-55_D96NawIo.png
02:51 PM Emil: I have no shame :D
02:52 PM bss36504: you should never do that for production
02:52 PM Emil: bss36504: sshhh
02:52 PM bss36504: but for proto/hand assy. it's fine.
02:52 PM polprog: i'd just lay the passives in a way where GND is on one side and use one via to GND plane and star grounding to via
02:52 PM bss36504: Which is why via-in-pad for BGA is such an expensive adder
02:52 PM enh: I do not mix that stuff. I'm afraid of ghosts inside vias.
02:53 PM polprog: they are in the shells only
02:53 PM bss36504: enh: Well exactly, that's what I meant by voiding (and other solder defects). It would be very hard to control in a manufacturing environment
02:53 PM Emil: enh: Are you some pussyboi, do it fgt, it feels good >:D
02:53 PM Emil: shhh
02:53 PM Emil: No tears
02:53 PM Emil: just smaller boards
02:54 PM bss36504: lol
02:54 PM Emil: Who cares about yield when you can have smaller boards
02:54 PM polprog: lol
02:54 PM enh: I'm probably a pussyboy, then...
02:54 PM enh: My boards are tiny...
02:54 PM polprog: why do you wanna make tinier pcbs
02:54 PM Emil: nonono it's pussyboi
02:54 PM bss36504: Emil: People with recalls
02:54 PM Emil: bss36504: what were we discussing again?
02:54 PM polprog: my dream is a project that makes a 1 meter pcb!!!!
02:54 PM polprog: i could hang it on a wall
02:55 PM bss36504: Emil: your DFM skills are sub-kawaii
02:55 PM enh: Stop dreaming, polprog!
02:55 PM polprog: and it wont be a TTL cpu
02:55 PM Emil: polprog: according to my crude math, it would only cost 1550 from Oshpark
02:55 PM polprog: something that makes sense and uses modern tech
02:55 PM Emil: bss36504: DFM?
02:55 PM polprog: 1550 moneys, cool
02:55 PM enh: polprog: A big, flat coil
02:55 PM Emil: polprog: I mean, it's _only_ 1550 moneys
02:56 PM bss36504: Emil: I was saying how via-in-pad is bad for manufacturability, you said who cares about yield when you have tiny PCBs, I said people with recalls, as in product recalls
02:56 PM Emil: that's like, not even the cost of a painting that big
02:56 PM bss36504: Emil: DFM = Design For Manufacturability
02:56 PM Emil: bss36504: what were we discussing again
02:56 PM bss36504: Who cares about size when you get 30% yield
02:56 PM Emil: exactly
02:56 PM Emil: Now you are talking
02:56 PM polprog: apart from that, i would make it 32 layer so it's extra thicc
02:56 PM enh: Wow! I do this: DFM! And I did not weven know what DFM meant
02:56 PM Emil: polprog: :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
02:56 PM polprog: heh, til
02:57 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/extrathicc
02:57 PM polprog: oh god
02:57 PM enh: Takes me sooo much time to design a board with four sensors in a 2cm x 3cm space...
02:57 PM polprog: im clicking that
02:57 PM Emil: polprog: I'll animate it someday
02:57 PM polprog: wtf
02:57 PM bss36504: Emil: you say it as a positive, I say it as a negative. It's my experience as a test engineer shining through. The yield histograms still haunt my dreams
02:58 PM bss36504: :)
02:58 PM polprog: Emil: animate this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cZC67wXUTs
02:58 PM Emil: bss36504: you know that graph
02:58 PM Emil: bss36504: where there's a joke or reference
02:58 PM Emil: bss36504: and it sorta moves over this symbol for head?
02:58 PM enh: https://hackaday.io/project/11724/gallery#db5e64360bb1ed0f7caa6e3ea08a8cfd
02:59 PM bss36504: Emil: cute :|
02:59 PM bss36504: haha
02:59 PM Emil: bss36504: do you know of literature that details the voiding effect?
02:59 PM Emil: Especially statistics
02:59 PM bss36504: Not off hand, I bet if you searched soldering defects in manufacturing, you'd find stuff
03:00 PM bss36504: I just know it would be hard to control solder flow through tiny via drills.
03:00 PM bss36504: At least with your "vanilla" solder and hand tools
03:00 PM enh: I'm so stupid.. I have inhibited Z movement on the CNC with the laser installed. Now I understand why it was not cutting thick (<3mm) materials.
03:00 PM bss36504: Not impossible, but costly to get right
03:01 PM Emil: bss36504: why would you control for solder flow through tiny via drills?
03:01 PM bss36504: Emil: https://community.cadence.com/CSSharedFiles/forums/storage/27/1324522/screaming_5myths.pdf #3
03:01 PM bss36504: No, its that it is unpredictable and therefore undesirable
03:02 PM bss36504: Oh, and also #4
03:02 PM Emil: for an expensive bga, sure, but for some run of the mill tqfp or 0805/0603 smd passive
03:02 PM Emil: s
03:02 PM Emil: The oshpark drills are so small that it works absolutely fine
03:02 PM bss36504: Read #4 on that doc
03:03 PM bss36504: Yes, again where you, a human, are hand assembling and can inspect as you go
03:03 PM bss36504: that's not a scalable process
03:04 PM Emil: polprog: that's surprisingly catchy
03:04 PM enh: I learn sooo much here...
03:04 PM Emil: polprog: kind like the hehehe
03:04 PM Emil: But that's hard to animate
03:04 PM Emil: I mean just movement
03:04 PM Emil: not actual animation
03:04 PM polprog: enh: it's a cool channel
03:05 PM polprog: Emil: yeah, hehehe would be easy in HTML5
03:08 PM enh: bss36504: My little boards look acceptable from the production POV?
03:09 PM bss36504: enh: Yeah they look fine. Are those plugged vias?
03:10 PM bss36504: or just really tiny drills?
03:10 PM bss36504: Also, no soldermask?
03:10 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-08-17_22-39-38_UcAb1grL.png
03:10 PM Emil: Who does shit like this
03:10 PM enh: vias... soldermask is there
03:10 PM polprog: lol
03:11 PM polprog: somebodys mouse slipped
03:11 PM polprog: :P
03:11 PM enh: I believe they are tenting vias
03:11 PM enh: I chose the standard PCBWay via option
03:12 PM Emil: Yeah everyone and your grandma tents their vias
03:12 PM enh: I guess I should know what is a tenting via.
03:13 PM Emil: It's when the soldermask covers the via
03:13 PM enh: I may have googled it at the ordering time
03:13 PM enh: ah, ok
03:13 PM enh: Two more words for my vocabulary today
03:14 PM polprog: heh, i leaqrned via types today
03:14 PM enh: Culture is amazing!
03:14 PM polprog: internet is amazing
03:14 PM polprog: the series of tubes
03:14 PM enh: I can explain what a quantum phase transition is, one day.
03:14 PM enh: In exchange for what I learn here
03:15 PM polprog: :D
03:15 PM enh: But I guess nobody will ever want to know
03:15 PM polprog: heh, not even on polish wikipedia
03:15 PM polprog: wanted to know how's that called in polish
03:15 PM enh: QFT...
03:15 PM enh: Same name everywhere
03:15 PM enh: QPT
03:15 PM enh: Sorry.
03:16 PM polprog: guess that's not the stuff we have in the curriculum
03:16 PM enh: I have in mine... Such an useless stuff
03:16 PM enh: Made me suffer for years.
03:17 PM polprog: hmm
03:17 PM polprog: for me
03:17 PM enh: Being an experimental physicist in brazil means you play the piano, you carry the piano, you clean the theater after the show and you sell the tickets.
03:17 PM polprog: the useless and suffer-making stuff were geometrical proofs
03:17 PM enh: and still nobody cares about the thing
03:17 PM polprog: but they did come useful now
03:18 PM polprog: we have geometry in high school
03:18 PM polprog: and i just had all of the stuff we learn
03:18 PM polprog: in middle school
03:18 PM enh: they are much more useful than heavy fermions and condensed matter physics
03:18 PM polprog: due to custom maths curriculum
03:19 PM polprog: so i guess the guy who made the curriculum had some idea about what to do after
03:19 PM enh: you can make good bricks with what you learn in school
03:19 PM enh: bricks make houses.
03:19 PM polprog: wise words
03:19 PM enh: Houses make you warmer and dry
03:19 PM polprog: i could be in Interational Bacalaureate class, but i didnt catch with grades
03:19 PM polprog: whatever
03:20 PM polprog: polish final exam has the very same "value"
03:20 PM enh: just build a good life and an income. The rest you can do in spare time.
03:21 PM polprog: yeah. that's probably the most important thing
03:21 PM polprog: oh, mike pence is talking about barcelona attack on CNN
03:21 PM polprog: btw, im watching a CNN USA livestream now
03:21 PM enh: barcelona was atatcked?
03:21 PM polprog: yes, somebody drove a van into a crowd
03:22 PM polprog: in the city centre
03:22 PM enh: this driving attacks is getting too common
03:22 PM polprog: it is
03:23 PM polprog: but it also shows progress in preveting big attacks
03:23 PM polprog: 15 years ago it was possible to fly a plane into a building
03:23 PM polprog: now the most they can do is to rent/steal a big truck and drive into people
03:24 PM polprog: it's terrible
03:27 PM polprog: the analyst just said that
03:27 PM enh: The next world war will be agains anybody who looks like a terrorist. Unforunately.
03:27 PM polprog: wouldnt say so
03:27 PM polprog: the 3rd WW will be over water
03:28 PM Emil: polprog: are you realy thinking like that?
03:29 PM polprog: Emil: about WW3?
03:29 PM Emil: That we have made progress in preventing big attacks
03:29 PM polprog: yeah
03:29 PM Emil: and that the costs are acceptable?
03:29 PM bss36504: I'm sure the POTUS will quickly condemn this barcelona van attack as "terror" despite the reluctance to do so about Charleston.
03:30 PM polprog: he already did
03:30 PM polprog: an hour ago
03:30 PM polprog: or something like that
03:30 PM bss36504: Charlottesville*
03:30 PM bss36504: yeesh
03:31 PM bss36504: Can't say Im surprised. Its easy to shout "terror" when it's brown people or foreigners, but white people in America?! How could it be!
03:32 PM bss36504: At least when you're a racist bigoted sack of shit like Trump
03:33 PM Emil: Better than Shillary
03:33 PM Emil: I wish Bernied hadwon
03:33 PM Emil: Bernie*
03:34 PM polprog: i dont know this much about US politics
03:34 PM bss36504: Eh, not so sure it's better than Hillary. Not that she was an angel either...
03:35 PM bss36504: Well neither does most of the US so you're all set ;)
03:36 PM polprog: but i'm sure that Trump is a businessman and i expected him to be controversial
03:37 PM bss36504: Well, that's not really the reason he's controversial. There are many reasons, but that is one.
03:37 PM bss36504: Ironically, he's not even a very good businessman
03:37 PM polprog: what i'm also sure about is that politics is a great topic to divide people who are friendly to each other. so let's talk about electronics :P
03:37 PM bss36504: True
03:37 PM polprog: especially in poland
03:39 PM Emil: Poland is an interesting country
03:39 PM polprog: indeed
03:40 PM Emil: It's smack in the middle of Europe and produces a huge portion of all the agricultural products
03:40 PM Emil: they like the concept of EU and benefit from it
03:40 PM polprog: liked*
03:40 PM polprog: heh
03:40 PM Emil: But at the same time they don't agree with the PC culture
03:40 PM polprog: PC?
03:40 PM Emil: Political Correctness
03:40 PM polprog: ah
03:40 PM Emil: And immigration
03:41 PM Emil: Which a lot of member countries are making into a huge issue
03:41 PM Emil: well, at least some vocal parties from those countries are
03:43 PM polprog: what i noticed today, is that the ads in US tv are medicines and cars mostly
03:44 PM polprog: i swear every 2nd ad here is about some treatment
03:45 PM Emil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZULmqCOXci8
03:45 PM Emil: I'm watching this
03:45 PM Emil: and I can physically feel the cringe
03:46 PM polprog: i could tell 5 jokes about french military now
03:46 PM polprog: and 10 more after that
03:48 PM Emil: How can these people not know how to shoot
03:48 PM Snert: polprog: It's about who is willing to pay the high advertising price during the news hour which is the costliest time slot.
03:48 PM Emil: Do they not play videogames and watch movies? :D
03:48 PM polprog: otoh, im watching only cnn so far
03:49 PM Snert: look who is advertising....and those are the ones making the big bucks.
03:49 PM polprog: i decided ill watch US tv
03:49 PM Emil: Like at 10:50 the guy is only using his _arms_
03:49 PM polprog: all i wanted all i needed....
03:49 PM polprog: is here in my arms
03:53 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-08-17_23-22-26_KJ5UlGBX.png
03:53 PM Emil: CRINGE
03:54 PM polprog: those scouts look weird
03:54 PM Emil: What the actual fug
03:54 PM Emil: This ending
03:54 PM Emil: So much cringe
04:42 PM remkooo1 is now known as remkooo
06:07 PM Sokomine: did i get that right: if i run timer0 with a prescaler of 64 on the chip of an arduino uno (afaik runs at 16mhz?), the timer ought to overflow twice as often as timer0 on an attina2313@1mhz with a prescaler of 8?
06:25 PM Sokomine: hm, seems turning on the compare match interrupt when intending to use it might be a good idea...
06:33 PM hetii: Hi :)
06:33 PM hetii: Is it possible to destroy ws2812b leds by sending random bit stream?
06:46 PM rue_shop3: no
06:51 PM hetii: rue_shop3, but it happens in my case :/
06:54 PM hetii: wtf... I reflash my device again and again some leds are dead ...
06:56 PM hetii: I use esp8266 with dma and there rxd pin act two role, in one when receive data from uart in flashing procedure and then after he boot, he emit data on that pin from dma to ws2812b
07:27 PM HighInBC: hetii had failed IRC, was just about to help them out
08:17 PM rue_bed: Emil, whats that about?
08:33 PM HighInBC: looks like a casual reporter and a rich guy playing dress up
11:06 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L