#avr Logs
Aug 15 2017
#avr Calendar
12:18 AM day_ is now known as daey
01:58 AM Emil: vegii: https://emil.fi/avr
02:21 AM Emil: vegii: and I'm glad you came to that conclusion ;)
02:27 AM vegii: Emil: Thanks, bookmarked. This was very helpful so far https://gist.github.com/dwaq/8239080 . I like Arduino for getting stuff done, but with attiny13a, for a low-power project that's just a delayed blink with some low-level stuff for minimizing power consumption, getting arduino ide to work nicely with this is ineffective
02:27 AM Emil: vegii: glad you liked it
02:28 AM Emil: vegii: disable the "divide clock internally" option, also
02:29 AM Emil: U lfuse:w:0x3a:m -U hfuse:w:0xff:m I might use these
02:34 AM vegii: Thanks. I'm gonna try -U lfuse:w:0x73:m -U hfuse:w:0xff:m unless SUT is needed for something
02:52 AM Emil: SUT?
02:52 AM Emil: Ah you mean start up time
02:53 AM vegii: yep... also, I think I bricked an at13 by writing different DF_CPU than fuses by a factor of ... a lot
02:54 AM Emil: YOu can't brick it
02:54 AM Emil: like that
02:54 AM Emil: F_CPU is only for the util/delay.h defines
02:54 AM mindw0rk: yeah
02:54 AM vegii: avrdude: error: program enable: target doesn't answer. 1
02:55 AM Emil: Did you disable the "divide clock by 8 internally?"
02:55 AM Emil: Or enable it or something?
02:56 AM vegii: nope
02:56 AM vegii: it's disabled
02:56 AM vegii: -U lfuse:w:0x73:m -U hfuse:w:0xff:m
03:11 AM vegii: I'll try updating my usbasp with an UNO first...
03:26 AM vegii: I guess it's nice to have an usbasp that doesn't make avrdude scream to update its firmware, but it doesn't help
03:32 AM vegii: seems like I've had two at13a's and I broke one and lost the other one
03:57 AM vegii: yayyy, found the other one
03:57 AM vegii: time to brick it
04:04 AM vegii: ok done... I must have killed it by burning wrong fuses somehow
04:04 AM vegii: avrdude -p attiny13 -c usbasp -F -b 9600 -q -U lfuse:w:0x73:m -U hfuse:w:0xff:m
04:06 AM Emil: ummm
04:06 AM Emil: -b here does nothing
04:06 AM Emil: also
04:06 AM Emil: what the fuck are you using -F
04:07 AM vegii: eh, didnt matter this time
04:07 AM Emil: Also -q
04:07 AM Emil: why
04:07 AM vegii: used command from here and adapted it to ubuntu https://gist.github.com/dwaq/8239080
04:09 AM vegii: I suppose the problem may be because I'm using 128kHz oscillator...
04:10 AM Emil: noshit
04:10 AM vegii: o at least tried to do so...
04:10 AM Emil: :D
04:10 AM Emil: set the bit clock period to something small with -B
04:11 AM vegii: hah, it worked straight away lol
04:12 AM _ami_: finally i made a board for my avr programmer. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHQejIxVoAAy5xX.jpg
04:12 AM vegii: thanks a lot
04:12 AM _ami_: its taking ages to deliver PCBs from seeedstudio.
04:12 AM _ami_: i paid 19$ for shipping
04:12 AM vegii: good to know, gotta use pcbway
04:13 AM _ami_: vegii: oh you also using attiny13
04:13 AM _ami_: cool.
04:14 AM _ami_: default F_CPU on attiny13a is 9.6 MHz
04:14 AM Emil: _ami_: it's actually not iirc
04:14 AM Emil: _it's divided by default
04:14 AM Emil: IIRC
04:14 AM twnqx: seed can be randomly as fast as 2 days :P
04:14 AM twnqx: seeed*
04:15 AM twnqx: for shipping, that is
04:15 AM Emil: _ami_: do you have better pictures for that board?
04:15 AM _ami_: twnqx: it has been 8 days since i ordered PCBs
04:15 AM _ami_: its still in processing phase.
04:15 AM Emil: and what options did you selected?
04:15 AM Emil: How many business days?
04:16 AM twnqx: 5 to 7 normal processing, then shipping, indee
04:16 AM twnqx: you can pay up for faster
04:16 AM vegii: I couldn't not try those attiny13a if they cost like $0.20/piece on aliexpress, had to order like 5 or 10 to try them
04:17 AM _ami_: Emil: the perf board one? or the kicad ones?
04:17 AM twnqx: i used one once to replace a ne555 for generating a 50hz signal :S
04:17 AM _ami_: Emil: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHQejP1VwAA77oQ.jpg
04:17 AM Emil: _ami_: kicad
04:17 AM Emil: _ami_: you said you made a board for your programmer
04:17 AM Emil: and ordered
04:17 AM _ami_: Emil: https://cdn.hackaday.io/images/9851751502185071498.png
04:18 AM Emil: >Mounting holes
04:18 AM Emil: >Not symmetric
04:18 AM Emil: ydoudotis
04:18 AM Emil: also
04:18 AM Emil: >not rounding edges
04:18 AM _ami_: okay, points noted down.
04:18 AM Emil: It's also hhuuuge
04:19 AM vegii: I personally don't see anything wrong with using those very low cost generic parts to at least limit the number of components on a board in case of ne555
04:19 AM Emil: _ami_: also you might want to use the standard headers instead of 1x6
04:19 AM twnqx: i needed to deadbug it anyway, so no external components was key
04:19 AM Emil: You get better compatibility
04:19 AM Emil: Otherwise it's nice
04:19 AM _ami_: Emil: it has avr standard isp one also
04:20 AM twnqx: hm, rounding edges
04:20 AM Emil: _ami_: I mean the 10 pin one
04:20 AM Emil: twnqx: aiiiiiina pyöristä reunat <3
04:20 AM twnqx: that's a neato idea for something i am working on, though i wonder how it clashes with break apart pieces
04:21 AM Emil: twnqx: Well
04:21 AM _ami_: Emil: oh, i did not know.
04:21 AM Emil: twnqx: if your fab does milled parts
04:21 AM Emil: twnqx: then it's a non issue but it does waste some space
04:21 AM twnqx: yeah, i was contemplating milling with seeed
04:22 AM _ami_: the only avr programmer i have is usbasp :) and that one is also little bit different from generic ones.
04:22 AM Emil: twnqx: if you don't need them panelised just order and they'll deliver nicely routed pieces
04:22 AM Emil: And rounded edges
04:22 AM Emil: no problems
04:22 AM twnqx: yeah, it's about panelization
04:22 AM Emil: I mean if by break apart pieces you mean v-grooves
04:22 AM _ami_: Emil: i could have made panalized ones also.. but did not have tools to cut them.. so i skipped it :/
04:22 AM Emil: if you meant mouese bites then it's a non-issue
04:23 AM twnqx: carrier pcb + 10 or 20 or so identicla pieces that can be broken off
04:23 AM Emil: _ami_: they v-groove for you
04:23 AM _ami_: Emil: is it free?
04:23 AM Emil: _ami_: once v-grooved you can snap them by hand
04:23 AM _ami_: i paid 4.90$ for 10 boards
04:23 AM Emil: _ami_: iirc yes or doesn't cost much
04:23 AM _ami_: ok, thanks for tips. its good to know.
04:23 AM Emil: But I mean
04:24 AM _ami_: https://hackaday.io/project/21189/gallery#8268588d849649ebe8ba64bba630a11e <- panalized ones
04:24 AM Emil: whatcha need panelisation for, really
04:24 AM Emil: it's only useful if you are using a huge stencil
04:24 AM _ami_: Emil: how do you make v-groove sign in kicad?
04:24 AM Emil: just let the fab cut and mill them for you
04:25 AM _ami_: graphics lines will do the job?
04:25 AM Emil: _ami_: check the design rules from the fab
04:25 AM _ami_: ok
04:25 AM Emil: http://support.seeedstudio.com/knowledgebase/articles/388503-what-are-the-pcb-panelization-rules
04:25 AM _ami_: 10 boards is enough for now.. will give it to friends
04:27 AM _ami_: thanks for the link.
04:29 AM _ami_: Emil: panelization is good if you want more boards in same price.
04:31 AM Emil: _ami_: not really with China
04:31 AM _ami_: why? bad quality?
04:32 AM Emil: No
04:32 AM Emil: they just manufacture a fucton
05:22 AM rebecc_ is now known as rebecca
05:26 AM ravon: Where do one go to file ASF bug reports these days?
06:25 AM Emil: ravon: gcc mailing list prolly
06:26 AM Emil: Gah I hate people who don't use a server
06:28 AM Lambda_Aurigae: ravon, with microchip/atmel
06:29 AM Lambda_Aurigae: same place you would have downloaded ASF in the first place most likely.
06:35 AM Emil: Ah ASF
06:35 AM polprog: ASF?
06:37 AM noHitW_work: atmel software framework
06:38 AM ravon: Lambda_Aurigae: Found it eventually. They have a bugtracker but it doesn't accept new issues.
06:38 AM polprog: that's a great policy imo
06:38 AM ravon: You have to request technical support with Microchip
06:39 AM Lambda_Aurigae: ASF is a pain to work with on linux so after the first try I dumped it.
06:40 AM ravon: It's super tricky and inconsistent. It can be done if you don't value your sanity.
06:40 AM polprog: is it like avr-libc but from atmel?
06:40 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I haven't been considered sane for many many years.
06:40 AM Lambda_Aurigae: polprog, no..more like a HAL for AVR
06:40 AM polprog: til
06:40 AM ravon: polprog: It's an abstraction layer for their MCUs. You use one API and deploy to many families
06:41 AM Lambda_Aurigae: it's arduino taken to the extreme of unusability
06:41 AM Lambda_Aurigae: meant to be used with atmel studio.
06:42 AM polprog: sounds like fun.
06:43 AM ravon: You can also see where the different dev teams within Atmel worked. It seems like they haven't used a uniform coding convention.
06:46 AM Lambda_Aurigae: while it's a neat idea, ASF is a horrid implementation in my opinion.
06:47 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I use procyon avrlib even though it's very old.
06:48 AM polprog: ooks interesting, especially the network support drivers
07:06 AM Lambda_Aurigae: unfortunately he stopped working on it years ago.
07:07 AM antto: i also stayed away from ASF and their IDE
08:00 AM Kermit is now known as Guest88517
08:19 AM polprog: yay, the saelae clone is working :D
08:23 AM _ami_: polprog: it works pretty well! :)
09:02 AM ravon: Great. The HAL for the sam0 CAN driver is different than the one from sam. Then what's the point?
09:15 AM rue_more: prycon was great
09:48 AM remkooo1 is now known as remkooo
10:51 AM enh: One dumb question: If I receive an ESP8266-ES-07 from aliexpress, and connect 3.3V, EN, GND, TX and RX to an AVR, is it supposed to do something? Or I have to reflash it first?
10:53 AM _ami_: enh: you plan to use AT commands to control esp8266 via AVR
10:53 AM enh: I do, _ami_
10:53 AM _ami_: also your avr might run at 5v so have a logic converter in between
10:53 AM enh: My stuff runs at 3.3V
10:53 AM _ami_: for Rx @esp8266
10:53 AM _ami_: ok, then.
10:54 AM polprog: i need to get my esp module running
10:54 AM _ami_: did u get the board? or just plain esp07?
10:56 AM enh: Plain esp07
10:57 AM _ami_: enh: then you would require a circuitry to make it work.
10:57 AM _ami_: i don't have esp07 .. i have esp12e. i did make a board on perfboard for esp12e : https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CussbeHXEAADMxF.jpg
10:57 AM enh: m_cUART.SendCharArray("AT+RST");
10:57 AM enh: m_cUART.SendCharArray("AT+CWMODE=3"); m_cUART.SendCharArray("AT+CWJAP=\"GVT-9460\",\"3303000992\"");
10:58 AM _ami_: enh: do u have Kolban's book on esp8266?
10:58 AM enh: Sorry, _ami_. I have a little board such as yours.
10:58 AM enh: I believe I do, _ami_.
10:59 AM _ami_: ok then it should work.
10:59 AM enh: I'll get into it
10:59 AM enh: I see no sign of it on my router DHCP list. Maybe I'm sending commands too fast
10:59 AM _ami_: yeha, put a delay
11:00 AM _ami_: i had a sample somewhere arduino to esp8266 via AT commands
11:00 AM polprog: doesnt it send any acknowledgement?
11:01 AM enh: polprog: dunno. I connected directly.
11:01 AM _ami_: enh: whats the serial baudrate you set?
11:01 AM _ami_: 115200?
11:01 AM enh: I'll try connecting it to a serial-usb adapter to see what is going on
11:01 AM enh: 9600
11:02 AM _ami_: i think it should be 115200
11:02 AM enh: i can try that
11:03 AM _ami_: enh: my old sample : https://pastebin.com/wKhmZiM0
11:03 AM _ami_: i don't remember if it was esp01 or esp12e
11:04 AM _ami_: although i hated this serial AT comamnd thing.
11:04 AM _ami_: espX is much better than this :)
11:05 AM enh: thanks for that, _ami_
11:05 AM _ami_: worked?
11:05 AM enh: I'll switch stuff on and try now
11:06 AM enh: Were you born in sk, _ami_?
11:07 AM _ami_: enh: sk?
11:07 AM _ami_: oh
11:07 AM _ami_: no no
11:07 AM enh: south korea, sorry
11:08 AM enh: Atmel ICE + avrdude + mac os sierra is a strange combination. Sometimes the programmes flashes 14k of code in 1s, other times in 52s. No mid option.
11:09 AM enh: programmeR
11:09 AM enh: And it ususally fails one in every two tries.
11:09 AM * _ami_ did not use macOS. happy with arch linux
11:10 AM polprog: avrdude + dragon, very often i get 30-40 failed tries, then i go and make myself some tea, than it works wonders all day long
11:10 AM _ami_: enh: try with another programmer to know exact problem.
11:10 AM _ami_: oh
11:11 AM _ami_: then definitely driver issue.
11:11 AM enh: I bought an USB tiny programmer clone from ali express and it fused one ATMega328p. I thought it was an IC problem. Now it almost fused another of my modules and I trew it away.
11:11 AM _ami_: mac shit :P
11:12 AM enh: I'll never use those USB tiny clones again.
11:12 AM enh: sorry, USB tiny ISP clones
11:12 AM _ami_: enh: you could make one.. its not difficult.
11:12 AM enh: I should
11:12 AM polprog: but why, if they are shite
11:12 AM _ami_: vusb based usbasp programmer works pretty good for me.
11:13 AM _ami_: enh: today i made https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHQejIxVoAAy5xX.jpg perfboard for my stm32 based avr programmer.
11:13 AM polprog: is that the blue pill?
11:13 AM _ami_: polprog: yes :)
11:14 AM polprog: i need to get one
11:14 AM _ami_: polprog: https://hackaday.io/project/21189-fastusbasp-programmer-for-avr/
11:14 AM _ami_: polprog: buy the black pill though
11:14 AM _ami_: blue pill board design has blunders
11:14 AM _ami_: wrong pullups at D+ usb line.
11:15 AM polprog: thanks for the tip
11:15 AM _ami_: you need to do a trick at software side to make usb work.
11:15 AM _ami_: polprog: http://amitesh-singh.github.io/stm32/2017/05/27/Overcoming-wrong-pullup-in-blue-pill.html
11:15 AM _ami_: or replace 10k resistors with 1.5k
11:15 AM _ami_: i plan to buy few black pills from ali.
11:16 AM _ami_: or will make a board for myself.
11:16 AM _ami_: it would be good kicad exercise
11:16 AM polprog: hmm, i might make myself a dev board too
11:17 AM _ami_: polprog: have 2 usb ports one for pc communication (rx/tx) and other connected to mcu
11:17 AM polprog: it would probably be faster to order the chip locally and make it on a universal board than to wait for shipping... also, not wanting to overpay for local pill vendors
11:17 AM polprog: good idea
11:18 AM _ami_: i hate connecting FTDI serial module for debugging stm32 :/
11:18 AM _ami_: learned from that.
11:18 AM polprog: i guess i would just add parts as needed if i take the universal board approach
11:18 AM polprog: :P
11:18 AM polprog: "agile development"
11:18 AM _ami_: :)
11:19 AM enh: DOes it work well?
11:19 AM _ami_: enh: stm32?
11:20 AM enh: as a programmer
11:20 AM _ami_: oh yea!
11:20 AM polprog: but i just cant imagine writing to stm32 without using that ide... the pin config part (io mapping etc) look so damn complicated
11:20 AM _ami_: it works pretty well.
11:20 AM _ami_: polprog: have 2 monitors ;)
11:21 AM polprog: for what
11:21 AM _ami_: one monitor for DS and other for coding.
11:21 AM polprog: for avr i write in $EDITOR
11:21 AM _ami_: i use vscode
11:21 AM enh: How do i know if I have a black or a blue pills?
11:21 AM _ami_: color difference.
11:21 AM polprog: i wonder if there are usable ides for linux for stm
11:21 AM _ami_: polprog: you don't need ide
11:22 AM _ami_: for development
11:22 AM _ami_: polprog: do you use linux for dev?
11:22 AM polprog: yeah
11:22 AM _ami_: i have a cmake based build system for stm32
11:22 AM _ami_: https://github.com/amitesh-singh/stm32-unicoremx-project
11:22 AM _ami_: unicoremx is a fork of libopencm3 project.
11:22 AM polprog: you mean i can just use any editor and type all the config register values off my head>
11:22 AM _ami_: they have better support for USB OTG
11:22 AM polprog: ?
11:23 AM enh: I probably have a blue one then...
11:23 AM _ami_: polprog: i use libopencm3 for stm32
11:23 AM polprog: _ami_: awesome, thanks
11:23 AM _ami_: its a nice C library
11:23 AM _ami_: over stm32 f0..
11:23 AM _ami_: and other mcus
11:24 AM _ami_: polprog: enh: you could start with this guide: http://amitesh-singh.github.io/stm32/2017/04/09/setting-stm32-dev-environment-arch-linux.html
11:24 AM enh: ops... one more device on router's dhcp table...
11:25 AM polprog: mm, just 13 zlotys for blue pills... i might get one and fix the resistors myself...
11:25 AM polprog: not much, it's > 3 GBP
11:25 AM polprog: ~4 bucks
11:26 AM _ami_: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/STM32F103C8T6-ARM-STM32-Minimum-System-Development-Board-Module-For-arduino/32811501377.html black pill.
11:26 AM enh: Thanks, _ami_!
11:27 AM _ami_: polprog: i could have fixed Resistors but i did not know earlier so i soldered the side pins
11:27 AM _ami_: so its actually difficult now to remove R10
11:28 AM _ami_: i can try but i have a single blue pilll.. will try if i have backups
11:30 AM _ami_: polprog: cool. good luck!
11:33 AM _ami_: and also i don't have 1.5k smd resistor (0603) :P
11:34 AM enh: _ami_: You asked before, why HG and not GIT. I've been using mercurial for quite some time. No need for central servers, etc. I like it.
11:34 AM _ami_: ok.
11:34 AM polprog: _ami_: i have a hot air tool, and i think ill just get the resistor
11:34 AM polprog: thanks for the tips, i'll hve to loot at atm
11:34 AM polprog: stm
11:35 AM _ami_: polprog: i have a soldering station (2 in 1) with hot air gun which i got it recently.
11:36 AM _ami_: i needed to break the bank before buying this. :P
11:36 AM _ami_: over 150$
11:36 AM polprog: nice
11:36 AM polprog: i recently got a logic analyzer... 10$
11:36 AM polprog: :D
11:37 AM enh: Me too. From DX. Works amazingly well
11:37 AM polprog: my monthly budget is 50 dollars
11:38 AM enh: just for electronics?
11:38 AM polprog: no, think of it like pocket money
11:38 AM polprog: for everything
11:39 AM enh: then it is tight
11:39 AM _ami_: i have spent over 600$ this year on aliexpress.
11:40 AM polprog: not like it's 200$ for living, i live with my parent, im 17...
11:40 AM polprog: it's for the school cafeteria etc.
11:40 AM polprog: parents*
11:41 AM _ami_: polprog: nice. you are doing good then. atleast you have a right hobby!
11:41 AM enh: Ops.... Kolban's book says RST low equals reset? I should connect it to high, then?
11:41 AM polprog: if its active low then sure
11:41 AM _ami_: it should be high with 10k R pullup
11:41 AM polprog: probably called /RST or RST with a stroke overit
11:42 AM _ami_: esp are very power sensitive.
11:42 AM _ami_: they reset quite often on noise
11:42 AM enh: hum...
11:42 AM polprog: add a cap there then
11:42 AM enh: I'll connect it directly to a GPIO. Will it hurt?
11:43 AM polprog: umm
11:43 AM polprog: not sure what you mean,
11:43 AM enh: Do I need the pull-up? Or can I connect RST directly to a GPIO?
11:44 AM _ami_: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Lolin-ESP32-OLED-wemos-for-Arduino-ESP32-OLED-WiFi-Modules-Bluetooth-Dual-ESP-32-ESP-32S/1983387_32807531243.html -> looks good.
11:45 AM _ami_: time to crash, nn
05:03 PM day_ is now known as daey
06:15 PM polprog: do we have discord or something?
06:16 PM Lambda_Aurigae: discord or datcord...either way we need to string someone up!
06:17 PM Lambda_Aurigae: enh, I would use a pullup to keep it high no matter what...
06:18 PM Lambda_Aurigae: guessing you are wanting the GPIO to pull it low to perform a hard reset?
06:18 PM Lambda_Aurigae: reset is an input...just like any input it should never be left floating.
06:19 PM Lambda_Aurigae: your GPIO might not necessarily always be high...on reset it should float as an input...which would cause the reset pin to float and be random if you don't put a pullup on it.
09:00 PM enh: Just seen your messages now, Lambda_Aurigae'
09:00 PM enh: Thanks for them
09:03 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I didn' do it!
09:14 PM enh: 19:47 Lambda_Aurigae: enh, I would use a pullup to keep it high no matter what...
09:14 PM enh: Maybe they were not messages...
09:14 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I didn' do it!
09:14 PM Lambda_Aurigae: hehe
09:14 PM Lambda_Aurigae: it's not my fault!
09:15 PM enh: Anyway... I decoupled the ESP8266 from my system and attached a serial cable on its place. Later, whan I understando what is wrong, I'll plug it back.
09:16 PM _ami_: Lambda_Aurigae, creating a 16/8 bits bus over usb adapter for those bus LCDs is a good idea? i was thinking to make it using stm32. DMA mem to GPIOs would be FAST.
09:17 PM _ami_: then they could be used with any SBC or PCs
09:18 PM Lambda_Aurigae: if you say so.
09:21 PM _ami_: :)
09:23 PM _ami_: enh, how is your fiddle with esp07 going on?
09:25 PM enh: _ami_: I desisted. I'll solve more urgente problems using a serial cable. Later I'll deal with that. I believe the module I have came non flashed
09:25 PM enh: It did not respond to the FTDI
09:25 PM _ami_: ah, bad luck :/
09:26 PM _ami_: why did u choose esp07 though?
09:26 PM enh: Or some UART settings were wrong.
09:26 PM _ami_: esp12e/f were more common these days.
09:26 PM enh: Those were available from a vendor I was ordering other stuff. I just bought three.
09:28 PM enh: They should work. The blue led flashes when it is reset, power led turns on when powered... I must be doing something stupid, or the module needs flashing
09:28 PM enh: I thought they were plug and play
09:29 PM Lambda_Aurigae: plug and pray
09:30 PM enh: I forgot the praying part
09:30 PM Lambda_Aurigae: you also have to sacrifice several small dip package 74ls series chips to the gods.
09:31 PM Lambda_Aurigae: and maybe an 8088 processor.
09:32 PM enh: In the lab I worked in France I used to put an apple in liquid argon before closing the pressure cells. After closing I ate the apple. Sometimes this worked and I could use the cell to perform the experiments up to 15okbar.
09:33 PM enh: Other times I believe the apple was not good enough for the ritual.
09:34 PM Lambda_Aurigae: eating ipods and macbooks is not good for your health.
09:35 PM enh: I meant the fruit. The original apple meaning.
09:35 PM enh: Not the silicon version.
09:36 PM Lambda_Aurigae: those are evil too according to most of the VOC stories out there..even though their book-o-truth never actually calls it an apple.
09:36 PM enh: Some people asked if an argon frosen apple atasted good, or if I was not afraid of getting sick by eating the fruit. I never understood why they had such fears.
09:37 PM rue_shop3: liquid argon?
09:37 PM enh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCJ8UNqxSfI
09:37 PM enh: yep
09:38 PM rue_shop3: ... it cant react with anythng in a human can it?
09:38 PM enh: It would evaporate before I could touch the apple
09:39 PM Lambda_Aurigae: well,,,argon shouldn't really react with anything.
09:39 PM rue_shop3: safer than nitrogen I'd think
09:39 PM enh: And no, it can't
09:39 PM Lambda_Aurigae: noble gas and all that.
09:39 PM enh: All electron shells complete
09:39 PM enh: No place for wondering electrons from other atoms
09:39 PM Lambda_Aurigae: one of the least reactive elements out there as I recall.
09:40 PM rue_shop3: :/ I'm waiting for printers
09:40 PM rue_shop3: what else can I do?
09:40 PM enh: That is one of the reasons people use argon to fill diamond pressure cells sample chambers
09:40 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I have printers galore here.
09:40 PM rue_shop3: one is making me washers and the other garden hooks
09:40 PM rue_shop3: maybe I should work on the control box for the new cnc
09:41 PM enh: Did you see the apple floating on liquid argon?
09:41 PM enh: epic movie
09:42 PM rue_shop3: huh, argons pretty heavy in the first place
09:42 PM enh: Another epic movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7Hxd0fAYhw&t=31s
09:43 PM enh: Lifters reacting at high vacuum
09:43 PM rue_shop3: ah, thats what I need, another hour counter
09:43 PM rue_shop3: did they do better in the vacuum?
09:44 PM enh: They moved macroscopically. There is something there. Real.
09:44 PM enh: Ah! The argon apple, warming up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMIZ-1sUbI8
09:44 PM enh: Enough for ludic science
09:45 PM rue_shop3: I wonder how many scientists would have quit and gone home if a lifter did just as well in a vacuum
09:46 PM rue_shop3: someone must have done calc on forces of ion sprays?
09:46 PM enh: Id did very well in vacuum and many scientists still ignore them.
09:46 PM Lambda_Aurigae: doubt they got a 100% vacuum.
09:46 PM rue_shop3: space isn't a 100% vacuum anyhow
09:46 PM Lambda_Aurigae: still stray particles in there.
09:47 PM Lambda_Aurigae: ok..off to bed.
09:47 PM Tom_itx: what color is a vaccuum?
09:47 PM rue_shop3: purple, duh
09:47 PM Tom_itx: naw, that's dragon snot
09:47 PM enh: 10e-6 mbar is 10e-9 atm. If the force is proportional to pressure, reducing pressure that much should leave an undetectable force. But we showed it was very detectable.
09:48 PM Tom_itx: should have my relays tomorrow
09:48 PM rue_shop3: ... tommorow!?
09:48 PM rue_shop3: arg
09:48 PM enh: physicists are sooo boring...
09:48 PM Tom_itx: should be a fairly easy swap out
09:49 PM Tom_itx: rue_more, are most relays (standard ones) break before make?
09:49 PM Tom_itx: kindof an important feature in this case
09:54 PM rue_shop3: yea
09:54 PM rue_shop3: I dont know if you can get a make-before-break
09:55 PM rue_shop3: just make sure the coil isn't over like 25mA
09:55 PM Tom_itx: would be special i'm sure
09:56 PM Tom_itx: ?
09:57 PM Tom_itx: oh, on the one i'm getting?
09:57 PM rue_shop3: the ones you were looking at seemed to be in the 20-22mA range
09:57 PM rue_shop3: I mean, the limit is 50mA, but thats 25mA
09:57 PM rue_shop3: 200% and all
10:03 PM Tom_itx: i thought that's what diodes were for
10:11 PM rue_more: no, the diodes keep the flashback from killling the transisot in reverse breakdown
10:11 PM rue_more: the optos re only rated for 50mA, but most of the coils we were looking at were like 22mA
10:30 PM rue_shop3: I should write the code for controlling the valves on the mecha
10:30 PM rue_shop3: I need to figure out how that old m32 code worked
10:46 PM Tom_itx: but you still don't think i need a resistor in series with the coil?
10:47 PM rue_shop3: no
10:47 PM rue_shop3: I did 2Hz for 24 hours
10:47 PM Tom_itx: i bet that relay was tired
10:48 PM rue_shop3: 172800 cycles
10:48 PM rue_shop3: funny yea, the relay was warm, but not the opto
10:48 PM Tom_itx: hah really?
10:48 PM rue_shop3: yep
10:48 PM Tom_itx: not destructive warm though
10:49 PM rue_shop3: no it was running on the rated 24V
10:49 PM Tom_itx: next question
10:49 PM Tom_itx: the 24v i'm using is derrived from a single diode from the centertap of the transformer on that cap
10:50 PM Tom_itx: seem ok to you?
10:50 PM rue_shop3: sounds good
10:50 PM Tom_itx: that was kat's idea :D
11:42 PM enh: I'm getting periodic tellemetry from the communications module!
11:43 PM HighInBC: I love telemetry
11:43 PM enh: Redundancy management is implemented too! Now any module can carry any set of capacities. Flexibility is everything.
11:44 PM enh: _ami_: I had to remove all virtual stuff.
11:45 PM enh: Tomorrow will be a very good day.
11:53 PM day_ is now known as daey