#avr Logs

Aug 12 2017

12:21 AM day_ is now known as daey
09:37 AM renn0xtk9: Anybody with experience with AVR and V-USB I got a code with V-USB that works, but when adding this funcdtion https://pastebin.com/niSpMmAF it stops to work (it is for the IRMP library )
09:41 AM renn0xtk9: I am suspecting some kind of conflict because of the timer but I a m not very deep in to the way AVR works so..
09:49 AM Tom_itx: v-usb is all about timin
09:49 AM Tom_itx: timing
09:49 AM Tom_itx: you don't hold your head just right it won't work
09:49 AM Tom_itx: the problem with software implementation
09:49 AM Tom_itx: use hardware usb
09:55 AM Lambda_Aurigae: http://vusb.wikidot.com/troubleshooting
09:56 AM Lambda_Aurigae: specially number 6.
09:58 AM Lambda_Aurigae: renn0xtk9, if you are using an attiny, are you using the pcinterrupt for v-usb or int0?
10:02 AM Lambda_Aurigae: need more than just the function that seems to break things.
10:16 AM renn0xtk9: Lambda_Aurigae I am using Atmega 328 p
10:17 AM renn0xtk9: this is the main https://pastebin.com/Q3hzc5GQ
10:17 AM Lambda_Aurigae: compile for atmega328 rather than atmega328p
10:17 AM renn0xtk9: from what I understand it uses the INT0
10:17 AM renn0xtk9: Lambda Aurigae acutally we have to compile for Atmega168
10:17 AM Lambda_Aurigae: ummm.
10:17 AM Lambda_Aurigae: that will break things too.
10:18 AM renn0xtk9: when only V-usb code is in the code, i got it working, i can send request through usb from my driver
10:18 AM renn0xtk9: but it is really when addring the IRMP bit (so the timer_init function) that it breaks
10:19 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I suspect your interrupt is taking up too much processor time.
10:19 AM renn0xtk9: Lambda_Aurigae? Why ? I have read somewhere in doc of V-USB that it would be the way to do since P series do not work and tehre is not for 328 therefore we should go to 168 which according to them is binary compatible
10:20 AM renn0xtk9: Lambda_Aurigae, you mean just the init functoin, or every time there is an interrupt ?
10:21 AM Lambda_Aurigae: the init function sets that interrupt to run a lot.
10:21 AM Lambda_Aurigae: as for the 328 vs 128
10:21 AM Lambda_Aurigae: err
10:21 AM Lambda_Aurigae: 328 vs 168
10:21 AM Lambda_Aurigae: different amounts of memory.
10:21 AM Lambda_Aurigae: heap starts at bottom of ram and moves up
10:22 AM Lambda_Aurigae: stack starts at top and moves down.
10:22 AM Lambda_Aurigae: compiling for 168 will lose you have of the ram for starters on a 328
10:22 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I think that will be the biggest problem.
10:23 AM Emil: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14996715
10:23 AM Emil: https://hookrace.net/blog/time.gif/
10:23 AM Emil: I'm just dumbfounded that many at "Hacker news" find this somehow "amazing"
10:23 AM Lambda_Aurigae: 328 and 328p are basically binary compatible but something compiling for 328p series seems to break v-usb.
10:23 AM Emil: They are all just node fanbois nowadays T.T
10:24 AM Lambda_Aurigae: that stuff is oooold.
10:26 AM renn0xtk9: Lambda_Aurigae, thaat means I may even have more luck by compiling a on a real 168?
10:26 AM Lambda_Aurigae: renn0xtk9, other problem compiling for atmega168 and running on atmega328 is you lose flash...and bootloader won't work.
10:27 AM Emil: X-Mixed-Replace
10:27 AM Lambda_Aurigae: by running on a real 168, maybe.
10:27 AM Emil: Why the fuck would you not compile for the target you have?
10:27 AM Emil: There's no point in that, ever
10:27 AM Lambda_Aurigae: still think the interrupt is firing too fast and interfering with v-usb timing.
10:27 AM Emil: Highly likely
10:28 AM Emil: Without knowing anything about the problem :D
10:28 AM Emil: VUSB is BUST and works by miracles alone
10:29 AM Lambda_Aurigae: interrupt firing every 1/15000 second.
10:29 AM Emil: Fixed timing?
10:29 AM renn0xtk9: Emil "Why the fuck would you not compile for the target you have?" > because it is a recoomandation of V-USB..
10:29 AM Lambda_Aurigae: interrupt calls an external function
10:30 AM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: but that's a fixed interrupt, right?
10:30 AM Lambda_Aurigae: Emil, timer based, yes.
10:30 AM Lambda_Aurigae: renn0xtk9, you said you have 328 but are compiling for 168...that's probably not a good thing.
10:30 AM Lambda_Aurigae: having a 328p and compiling for 328 is ok in this case due to a v-usb limitation.
10:31 AM Emil: VUSB should disable interrupts when it does its thing but you can still miss timing if your function is executing with higher priority (that is, interrupts were not enabled after entering ISR)
10:31 AM Emil: renn0xtk9: yeah no
10:31 AM Lambda_Aurigae: Emil, yeah, but with that interrupt firing so fast and calling an external function, it's taking waay too long in my opinion.
10:32 AM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: exactly
10:32 AM renn0xtk9: what do you mean no? see http://vusb.wikidot.com/troubleshooting point 8 bottom of page "The ATmega328p has no non-p variant, but it's binary-compatible with the ATmega168, so compile for the ATmega168"
10:32 AM Emil: wat
10:32 AM renn0xtk9: that is excaclty the case i am in
10:32 AM Emil: that is entirely false
10:33 AM Emil: 328p has a non p variant
10:33 AM Emil: 328p is not binary compatible with 168 because of memory limitations
10:33 AM Emil: 168 is compatible with 328 and 328p if the only difference is memory
10:33 AM Lambda_Aurigae: renn0xtk9, I suspect a typo...
10:34 AM Lambda_Aurigae: oh..
10:34 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah..
10:34 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I see that now..
10:34 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and,,,that's gonna cause memory issues.
10:35 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I still think the main problem is the interrupt firing too fast once you put that function in that sets up the timer.
10:36 AM Emil: I agree
10:36 AM Emil: VUSB requires absolute control to werk
10:36 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yup.
10:36 AM Emil: and even then it abuses the USB retransmit feature to work
10:36 AM Lambda_Aurigae: v-usb is a major hack.
10:36 AM Emil: It also hard codes checksum calculationa and assumes every packet is correct
10:36 AM Lambda_Aurigae: it's fun to play wit
10:36 AM Lambda_Aurigae: h
10:36 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but not something I would ever use in a production environment.
10:37 AM Emil: Apparently 328 and 328p are also binary compatible
10:37 AM Emil: And the only difference is power usage and signature
10:37 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yup.
10:37 AM Emil: I did find a reference to additional instructions but I think that's just hearsay
10:37 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I think there's something with power management different.
10:38 AM Emil: If there's register/memory mapping differences then they are not binary compatible but I couldn't find anything with a quick search
10:39 AM Emil: Hmm
10:39 AM Emil: I need a hairdryer
10:39 AM Emil: I wonder if I should buy a hot air gun from China
10:42 AM Lambda_Aurigae: P has BOD difference apparently.
10:42 AM Emil: Something like http://www.ebay.com/itm/401176555901
10:43 AM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: configurable difference or just different level?
10:43 AM Emil: Well I almost never use BOD (though I probably should perhaps) so eh :D
10:44 AM Lambda_Aurigae: not sure...not seeing much in the datasheet..
10:44 AM Lambda_Aurigae: just what I found on avrfreaks.
10:45 AM Lambda_Aurigae: Emil, I bought a hot air paint stripper locally...like 25 dollars...works great.
10:45 AM Lambda_Aurigae: doesn't have the fun nozzles
10:45 AM Lambda_Aurigae: think it's black&decker
10:46 AM Emil: hmm
10:47 AM renn0xtk9: Okay I can now compile for 328 but when adding the timer things, it still won't reckognize the usb device
10:47 AM Emil: What is your device
10:47 AM Emil: is it 328p?
10:47 AM Emil: Then compile for 328p
10:47 AM Emil: 328 and 328p have different signatures and generally speaking -F is bad
10:48 AM renn0xtk9: do you mean I shoudl decrease F_INTERRUPT int the function : https://pastebin.com/Q9QS6YhN
10:48 AM Emil: renn0xtk9: whatcha wanna do?
10:48 AM renn0xtk9: Emil it is 328p yes, hmm okay i will try although they say vusb do not work for p series but maybe there wiki is not up to date
10:48 AM Emil: wat
10:49 AM Emil: they work for 328p just fine
10:49 AM Emil: Just remove the ifdefs for attiny
10:49 AM Emil: Unless you are making some cross platform thing
10:49 AM renn0xtk9: The main goal is to make a usb device that send IR code as instructed from the computer. to do this I use V-USB library for the USB side at IRMP library to pilot the LED
10:50 AM Emil: You mean pilot=control?
10:50 AM renn0xtk9: the function I just post on pastbein is a copy paste of the irmp examples
10:50 AM renn0xtk9: yes
10:50 AM Emil: Btw, why do you want to use usb (and not serial for example)?
10:50 AM Emil: usart to usb adatper*
10:50 AM Emil: adapter*
10:51 AM Lambda_Aurigae: or use an attiny85 as a usb-usart adapter with v-usb...doable..just requires second chip on board.
10:51 AM Emil: lol
10:51 AM Emil: that'a a nice one
10:51 AM renn0xtk9: When i do an programm with IRMP for my 328p it works (without the USB) ; when I make a program with solely V-usb it works and i can send request (i can light up a led on demand of computer) ; when mixing both together it does not work
10:52 AM Emil: Yeah timing and interrupts
10:52 AM Emil: that's your issue
10:52 AM Lambda_Aurigae: the poll_usb function needs to be called at least every 10ms.
10:52 AM Emil: renn0xtk9: what crystal are you running at?
10:53 AM renn0xtk9: Emil well don't know, is the serail thing really more reliable? Originally part of the goal was also for me to lean how to write a linux driver for a USB componenet. If I use serial it would be another thing
10:53 AM Emil: renn0xtk9: oh if learning is your goal
10:53 AM Emil: renn0xtk9: then sure go ahead
10:53 AM renn0xtk9: Emil in both cases 16Mhz
10:53 AM Emil: Wellll
10:53 AM Emil: Yeah vusb works at 16MHz :D
10:54 AM renn0xtk9: YEs this for sure. I tried already with my configuration at least it does
10:54 AM Lambda_Aurigae: not much free time at that though as I recall, unless they have made it a lot more efficient in the last 5 years.
10:54 AM Emil: 16MHz is just a shite freq for usb
10:54 AM Lambda_Aurigae: 12MHz is better for v-usb..
10:54 AM Emil: if it was 12MHz it'd be so much easier
10:54 AM Emil: yeah
10:54 AM Lambda_Aurigae: at 16MHz they are adding some various NOPs in there to slow and adjust.
10:55 AM Lambda_Aurigae: 24MHz would be better but I don't think v-usb has been optimized for that as it is out of chip spec.
10:55 AM Emil: renn0xtk9: but yeah
10:56 AM Emil: renn0xtk9: serial to usb adapters are so much better
10:56 AM Emil: renn0xtk9: they are dedicated chips that do it for you
10:56 AM Emil: And you can push over 1MBaud through them
10:56 AM Lambda_Aurigae: there are simple usb-serial adapter chips that do the work and get rid of the problems.
10:56 AM Lambda_Aurigae: the cost of adding a chip to the project is minimal when you take into account the headaches and time trying to make v-usb play nicely with something that is very processor intensive.
10:57 AM Emil: but if you want to learn how to custom usb (which is a good goal, I should do that, too), then keep on going
10:57 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I would suggest going with something with hardware usb onboard though rather than v-usb...or adding a second chip just to handle the v-usb with some kind of serial interface between the two chips.
10:58 AM Emil: oh yeah true
10:58 AM Emil: renn0xtk9: if you want to learn
10:58 AM renn0xtk9: serial will take me more pin on the muc no? so less free pin availabal fro the rest
10:58 AM Lambda_Aurigae: ummm.
10:58 AM Lambda_Aurigae: no.
10:58 AM Emil: renn0xtk9: you might want to switch to m32u4
10:58 AM Emil: renn0xtk9: no
10:58 AM Lambda_Aurigae: v-usb uses 2 pins
10:58 AM Lambda_Aurigae: rs232 uses,,,,2 pins.
10:58 AM Emil: its not rs232
10:58 AM Emil: it's ttl usart
10:58 AM Lambda_Aurigae: ok...ttl usart uses 2 pins
10:58 AM Emil: or not even ttl, just logic level usart :D
10:58 AM Emil: but yeah 2 pins
10:59 AM Emil: and actually uart
10:59 AM Emil: /pedantism
10:59 AM renn0xtk9: Yeah I see i thik I will look to some Xmega with DIP adapters (because I can not well SMD's ) . I am slowly fed-up of running into V-USB issues every two seconds
10:59 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah...the S part would need a 3rd I suppose for clock.
10:59 AM renn0xtk9: one question: the timer initialisation I can do it whenever in the program no?
10:59 AM Emil: renn0xtk9: why not just buy a pro micro from ebay?
10:59 AM Emil: or
10:59 AM Emil: umm
10:59 AM Lambda_Aurigae: there are usb hardware enabled atmega chips.
11:00 AM Emil: http://www.ebay.com/itm/400985233359
11:00 AM Lambda_Aurigae: ok..gotta go do things...in real life.
11:00 AM Emil: I personally like these
11:00 AM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: cya
11:01 AM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: the only downside they have is no reset buttons so unless you are using the usb you have to manually reset to upload code using the bootloader
11:01 AM Emil: renn0xtk9: *
11:01 AM renn0xtk9: so a ( horrible) hack could be : 1) Initualikse V-USB 2) Wait for Request from computer 3) Upon request Initialize the timer 4) Fire the IR-code 5) Don't give a f***k if we lose usb connection (I need to only fire IR code one at a time anyway )
11:01 AM renn0xtk9: do you think that would work ?
11:01 AM Emil: renn0xtk9: so you are getting data from usb
11:01 AM Emil: and want to just send it out of ir?
11:01 AM Emil: And it's transmit only?
11:02 AM renn0xtk9: Emil correct
11:02 AM Emil: What was the lib name you were using?
11:02 AM Emil: and what ir data are you sending
11:02 AM Emil: what's the ir protocol that is
11:02 AM renn0xtk9: I will look at those thing but that is probably a mess everytime you want to programm it with the AVR-dragon. not as easy as a ZIF
11:03 AM Emil: what is a mess?
11:03 AM Emil: isp?
11:03 AM Emil: isp is kawaii <3
11:03 AM Emil: and bootloaders are kawaii <3
11:03 AM renn0xtk9: Emil: the library is IRMP and I want to shoot RC5 code
11:04 AM Emil: renn0xtk9: how much data?
11:04 AM Emil: renn0xtk9: a byte? two bytes?
11:04 AM Emil: Oh
11:04 AM Emil: Yeah you want to control a tv?
11:04 AM renn0xtk9: I just need to pass one byte of address and then one byt of command
11:05 AM renn0xtk9: a hifi system ^^
11:05 AM renn0xtk9: I would pass the first one with a given usb request
11:05 AM renn0xtk9: then the second one with another
11:05 AM Emil: hmm
11:05 AM Emil: Okay so
11:05 AM renn0xtk9: and then the firmware would know that after receival of the second it has to shoot IR
11:06 AM Emil: looking at this
11:06 AM Emil: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rc-5_protocol_details.jpg
11:06 AM Emil: from here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RC-5
11:06 AM renn0xtk9: If I then loose USB connection i think it does not matterm because i can always get it to automatically reconnect
11:07 AM renn0xtk9: yeah I know about the protocol,but I wanted to use a the library (IRMP) to take advantage of the implementation..
11:07 AM Emil: You need a minimum of 24,9ms to send that packet
11:07 AM Emil: renn0xtk9: no I'm just looking at the timings here
11:07 AM Emil: if vusb requires a check to the poll every 10ms
11:07 AM renn0xtk9: okay and that is too long for the usb right ?
11:07 AM Emil: it depends
11:07 AM Lambda_Aurigae: it's too long for v-usb.
11:07 AM renn0xtk9: it is too much time space between two usb polls
11:07 AM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: but
11:07 AM renn0xtk9: okay
11:08 AM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: you might be able to call it anyways in between
11:08 AM Snert__ is now known as Snert
11:08 AM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: since iirc if there's no data the keepalive is short
11:08 AM Lambda_Aurigae: or shut down v-usb then reinit
11:08 AM Emil: but constant reidentification is känser
11:08 AM Lambda_Aurigae: so is v-usb for anything like a real world app that you want to be reliable.
11:09 AM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: I think this is just a project
11:09 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I would still go with a pair of attiny85 chips to do this project if I had to use v-usb.
11:09 AM Emil: heh
11:09 AM Emil: what's it called
11:09 AM Emil: when your usb device identifies
11:09 AM renn0xtk9: But wait. if that would be the only problem, it would first bug when I try to shoot a code (i.e. when I send a request form the computer) , not already at initialisation huh?
11:10 AM Emil: renn0xtk9: also
11:10 AM Emil: renn0xtk9: not all usb ports support vusb
11:10 AM Emil: not even on the same machine
11:10 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yup.
11:10 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and,,,some hardware implementations will work where others won't.......but doubt that's the problem here.
11:11 AM renn0xtk9: Yeah but I am always using the same one and with solely V-usb in the firmware in there, it works
11:12 AM Emil: initialisation? Is that the word
11:12 AM Emil: I think
11:12 AM Lambda_Aurigae: initialization
11:12 AM Lambda_Aurigae: with a z
11:12 AM Emil: I'm z adverse
11:12 AM Lambda_Aurigae: renn0xtk9, yes, but you are initializing the timer in the main and starting it running it looks like...so that's gonna interfere with everything.
11:13 AM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: start the timer only after you have received a usb command to send the data packet
11:13 AM Emil: renn0xtk9: *
11:13 AM Emil: Actually
11:14 AM Emil: Here's what you could do
11:14 AM Emil: Start a timer that ticks faster than you need
11:14 AM Emil: wait I don't know what the timer is for
11:14 AM Emil: Is it for the individual bits?
11:14 AM Emil: Or the autoretransmit packets?
11:15 AM Emil: Because I'm quite sure that we can get this to work on just an m328p
11:15 AM Emil: with vusb
11:16 AM Lambda_Aurigae: we need Jartza !!!
11:16 AM Emil: It might require that you write your own IR driver
11:16 AM Lambda_Aurigae: he is the king of tight code.
11:16 AM Emil: But looking at the protocol it seems easy on a hardware level
11:16 AM Emil: since it's only about determining state and then flipping a bit in a register to change the output
11:16 AM Emil: and it's slow
11:17 AM Lambda_Aurigae: use the spi hardware in pseudo-slave mode to toggle the IR?
11:17 AM Lambda_Aurigae: or even in master mode for that matter.
11:18 AM Lambda_Aurigae: only need to abuse slave mode if you want to send data out without any pauses between bytes.
11:19 AM Lambda_Aurigae: Emil, that little atmega32u4 board would be nicer if it brought out all the i/o pins..but cute.
11:20 AM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: it would be so much better if it had the bloody reset btn :D
11:20 AM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: but yeah, it should have the rest of the pins out, too
11:20 AM Emil: but that would make it a bit bigger
11:21 AM Lambda_Aurigae: make it longer and do it dip.
11:21 AM renn0xtk9: so that it fits in my ZIF :p
11:22 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I have a similar board I made here for a pic16f1454...just the board, one cap, and the chip.
11:22 AM Lambda_Aurigae: plugs straight into the usb port like that one does.
11:23 AM Lambda_Aurigae: it works without the cap for the most part but tends to be a bit static sensitive without it.
11:24 AM Lambda_Aurigae: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-16-Mhz-ATMEGA32U4-Compatible-For-Arduino-SS-Micro-ATMEGA32U4-Module-Board/272301558797?_trkparms=aid%3D888007%26algo%3DDISC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D41376%26meid%3D188e55d3ed114190acadc60782db8d6c%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D400985233359&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982
11:24 AM Lambda_Aurigae: similar board with free shipping and cheaper.
11:24 AM Lambda_Aurigae: similar to yours Emil
11:26 AM renn0xtk9: hmm if I try to initialize the timer after the USB request somehow it does not work
11:27 AM renn0xtk9: the output pin statys at high as earlier
11:30 AM renn0xtk9: ah probably I should do it before sei() that is why it won't work
11:37 AM renn0xtk9: Should that be a problem that aI cli() and sei() in tthe middle of y program?
11:38 AM Lambda_Aurigae: those are made to be used throughout the program
11:38 AM Lambda_Aurigae: turning interrupts on and off as necessary.
11:38 AM Lambda_Aurigae: just remember, turning interrupts off will stop usb from working.
11:39 AM Lambda_Aurigae: v-usb relies on int0 to trigger data input from the usb port.
11:41 AM renn0xtk9: Lambda_Aurigae : so this should work no https://pastebin.com/X3ED9Stb: basically clear all interrupt , initalize the timer for the IR stuff and then shoot allsorts of commadns.
11:41 AM renn0xtk9: don't understand why I keep getting a high on my output pin
11:43 AM Casper: you sure it is not the usb stuff that use the timer and PWM output on it?
11:53 AM Lambda_Aurigae: off for to go shopping.
12:12 PM renn0xtk9: Casper don't know. I call cli() before sooting it, so in my understanding, it should stop timer that v usb is using no ?
12:13 PM Casper: cli do not stop timer
12:14 PM Casper: it stop the interrupt from being processed
12:14 PM Casper: which may be used for software pwm too
12:14 PM Casper: they may use the hardware, but hackingly pwm using it, in half software half hardware kind of way...
12:15 PM Casper: just guessing
12:15 PM Casper: which can be used if the timer can not give you an apropriate pulse width
12:18 PM Casper: sorry, just annoyed that my stuff ALMOST work....
12:18 PM Casper: but miss about 1/4 of the conversation...
12:19 PM renn0xtk9: Is there any way to kind of reset everything (withotu restarting form the begining of the main furnction )
12:21 PM rue_bed: if you use goto, but its a major sin to use that keyword
12:21 PM rue_bed: MAJOR
12:23 PM Casper: hmm the sory was mean for another channel... woops
12:23 PM Casper: renn0xtk9: even starting from the begening will not reset everything
12:24 PM Casper: only a reset will, and some stuff actually won't fully reset without a power cycle
12:24 PM Casper: like I beleive the watchdog timer don't turn off with a reset
12:24 PM renn0xtk9: hmm okay
12:30 PM rue_bed: depends on your code
12:30 PM rue_bed: well, I suppose its time to get up
12:30 PM rue_bed: I found the missing body of the hexapod
12:32 PM Casper: rue_bed: where was it? in your spagetti sauce?
12:52 PM renn0xtk9: it is very weird it looks like when I initialize the timer it is PWM ing on a pin which It has nothing to do with
01:14 PM Casper: renn0xtk9: software PWM probably
01:14 PM Casper: that probably use the timer, but actually do the port control itself
01:15 PM Casper: like ISR(timer0_overflow) ( doSomethingWithFoo(); if foo > bar set pin high else set low; )
01:16 PM Casper: I did something simmilar before to get 16 PWM 8 bits channels out of a chip that support 2 PWM only
01:18 PM Casper: basically I had the timer run 256 times faster than normal, then "count++; if (count > channel0preset) turn on pin 0 else turn off; if (count > channel1 ...... and so on ]
01:19 PM Casper: the nice thing with this aproach is that I didn't had to reset the count variable... as I used it's overflowing feature :D
01:22 PM JoeLlama: Infosec eggheads rig USB desk lamp to leak passwords via Bluetooth: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/11/leaky_usb_research/
01:43 PM renn0xtk9: "
01:43 PM renn0xtk9: This implies that all interrupt routines must either have the "ISR_NOBLOCK"
01:43 PM renn0xtk9: attribute set (see "avr/interrupt.h")
01:44 PM renn0xtk9: >that measn i have to declare my ISR like that : ISR(COMPA_VECT,ISR_NOBLOCK) ?
01:56 PM MrFahrenheit: it's to prevent an interrupt from blocking the usb interrupts and causing the usb timing to break
01:57 PM MrFahrenheit: but I think if you have any interrupts running while usb is communication is happening, you will end up with issues
02:07 PM renn0xtk9: are xmega 32 programmable by ATMELS avr dragon as well ?
02:12 PM Emil: If you do "AVR Dragon supported chips" on your favourite search engine, it should tell you
02:12 PM Emil: http://www.atmel.com/tools/avrdragon.aspx?tab=devices
02:12 PM Emil: Like here
02:16 PM renn0xtk9: Is there any of those who happend to have integrated bluettoth controller as well?
02:18 PM Emil: Hmmmm
02:19 PM Emil: Have you tried going over the list?
02:19 PM Emil: You can skip all of attinys and atmegas
02:19 PM MrFahrenheit: got the chips I ordered from that ebay digikey reseller, 5xatmega169 for $6, I think that's below the lowest digikey price, haha
02:20 PM MrFahrenheit: he upped the price to $22+4 after sending them to me
02:20 PM Emil: renn0xtk9: I think xmegas only support IEEE 802.15.4 and ZigBee integrated
02:21 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-08-12_21-50-07_OsWfVKO5.png
02:21 PM renn0xtk9: What brand could do USB+Bluetooth ?
02:22 PM Emil: Most ARMs
02:22 PM polprog: renn0xtk9: cant you get a dedicated BT chip/module?
02:22 PM Emil: renn0xtk9: TI, STM, NXP
02:22 PM Emil: pretty much everyone in ARMLand offers arm socs that have bt
02:23 PM Emil: I hear NXP is pretty good
02:23 PM Emil: STM32 has the widest adoption
02:23 PM Emil: and TI, well I've heard there are some problems with their toolchain thingies
02:23 PM Emil: But otherwise they are all solid
02:23 PM Emil: But a dedicated BT chip/module is not a bad thing like polprog said
02:24 PM polprog: :)
02:24 PM Emil: I would probably do that as well
02:24 PM Emil: since development time is usually lower that way
02:24 PM renn0xtk9: I guess those are hardly usable as hobbyist no? I mean in term of weldability, probably all very thin SMD's?
02:24 PM polprog: SMD is not hard for hobbyists
02:25 PM polprog: unless you do things on a perfboard
02:25 PM polprog: and even then there are breakouts
02:25 PM renn0xtk9: don't know never tried actually
02:25 PM Emil: smd is god tier for hobbyist
02:25 PM Emil: No drilling
02:25 PM polprog: ^
02:25 PM Emil: No annoying leads
02:25 PM polprog: drilling is the worst...
02:25 PM renn0xtk9: but it seems to me I will never manage to be accurate enough with my soldering tips
02:25 PM renn0xtk9: and i will burn the component all the time ^^
02:25 PM Emil: polprog: ikr, *shivers*
02:26 PM Emil: renn0xtk9: buy solder paste and some small hot air gun
02:26 PM MrFahrenheit: smd is great, but arm packages are usually very tiny
02:26 PM Emil: renn0xtk9: and practice your soldering
02:27 PM polprog: renn0xtk9: i thought that too before i took a risk and got some 1206 resistors, and that's huge in SMD world. i did 0603 with a typical iron tip (not the flat one) and people here say you can do 0402 as well
02:27 PM Emil: >1206
02:27 PM Emil: matey
02:27 PM Emil: just why
02:27 PM Emil: Oh yeah I was like this the first time you mentioned that
02:27 PM polprog: matey, it was my first try, i had absolutely no idea about smd
02:27 PM Emil: yeah 0603 is super easy to do
02:27 PM polprog: lol
02:27 PM Emil: polprog: I did 0805 first time
02:28 PM Emil: polprog: the one that has the rf module upside down
02:28 PM polprog: if the guy at the shop didntstop me it would be the biggest smd resisotr available
02:28 PM renn0xtk9: AVR with hardware usb controller won't have problem running interrupt while USBing ?
02:28 PM Emil: polprog: because lol fuck thinking when you can FLIP MODULES TO NOT DRILL SO FUCKING MUCH :DDDDDDDDDDDD
02:28 PM renn0xtk9: I am so pissed offf that I can't finisehd my project now:S
02:28 PM MrFahrenheit: polprog, did you do any 0.5mm pitch stuff?
02:28 PM polprog: MrFahrenheit: hmm, not yet
02:28 PM Emil: polprog: you have the fever I have :D
02:29 PM polprog: i will do 1.27 pin headers
02:29 PM MrFahrenheit: well 99% arm chips seem to be 0.5mm
02:29 PM Emil: renn0xtk9: it depends
02:29 PM polprog: oh wait i think that TI pwm driver could be .5mm
02:29 PM MrFahrenheit: 0.65mm if you're lucky
02:29 PM Emil: renn0xtk9: if you don't have anything to send or receive then yeah
02:29 PM polprog: oh wait x2, lol i did tqfp
02:29 PM Emil: renn0xtk9: iirc empty acknowledgement works without cpu invocation
02:29 PM Emil: but I can't be for sure
02:30 PM Emil: renn0xtk9: I'd just buy a usb to uart adapter and use uart
02:30 PM Emil: polprog: be careful though, sourcing 1.27 is not as a easy as 2mm for example
02:30 PM Emil: I ran into this issue
02:30 PM polprog: you know the pain when you need chips for a project, everybody is out of stock, except one guy at ebay who sells them for 3x the price
02:30 PM renn0xtk9: What do you mean if you don't have anything to send or receive ? purpose of usb is to send/receive information..
02:30 PM polprog: Emil: np, it's already in
02:30 PM Emil: polprog: nice
02:31 PM MrFahrenheit: polprog, he probably doesn't have them either, just orders as needed
02:31 PM Emil: polprog: how's your half slavery internship going?
02:31 PM polprog: finished
02:31 PM Emil: polprog: tqfp is not 0.5mm pitch iirc
02:31 PM Emil: lqfp is
02:31 PM polprog: maybe. that pwm driver was 0.5 definitely
02:32 PM Emil: renn0xtk9: matey pls
02:32 PM Emil: renn0xtk9: you don't have to send stuff all the time
02:32 PM Emil: polprog: how did it go?
02:32 PM Emil: polprog: do you work for someone now for realsies?
02:33 PM polprog: Emil: nice actually. i wont now because the schoolyear's starting, but i got awesome references. the firm i worked with works with ESA
02:33 PM Emil: <3
02:33 PM Emil: That's awesome! : )
02:33 PM polprog: also, the internal lectures, bees knees :P
02:34 PM Emil: bees knees?
02:34 PM renn0xtk9: polprog ESA the space agency ? you are space engineer?
02:34 PM polprog: renn0xtk9: kindof
02:34 PM polprog: :P
02:34 PM Emil: renn0xtk9: shhhh
02:34 PM Emil: sorry
02:34 PM Emil: polprog: shhh
02:34 PM Emil: polprog: just say yes
02:34 PM Emil: :D
02:34 PM polprog: :D
02:34 PM polprog: i know how to build a satellite
02:34 PM polprog: all the design quirks with redundancy
02:35 PM polprog: some cool fail stories
02:35 PM renn0xtk9: cool :)
02:35 PM polprog: did you know space grade CPUs have the registers tripled in HW? against accidental bit flipping caused by radiation
02:36 PM Emil: polprog: were you with those firms that my friend opened to us on a bar round about how all the fucking firms in central europe have no fucking idea what they are doing and just parroting old idiotic standards because "spacegrade spacegrade prooooooven spacegrade"
02:36 PM polprog: interestin
02:36 PM Emil: :D
02:36 PM Emil: my friend is working with the Aalto satellites
02:37 PM MrFahrenheit: no one wants to fuck up in space
02:37 PM Emil: were with you a firm who my friend opened up about to us on*
02:37 PM polprog: with AAlto? no
02:37 PM polprog: not that one
02:37 PM Emil: MrFahrenheit: literally idiotic design rules because "proooooveeeen spaaaaaceeee graaaadeee"
02:37 PM MrFahrenheit: imagine what they did to the guy who messed up the measurement units on that failed nasa craft
02:38 PM Emil: MrFahrenheit: nothing
02:38 PM MrFahrenheit: that's right, drawn and quartered
02:38 PM polprog: yeah, the amount of bureaucracy in space is incredible
02:38 PM Emil: polprog: my friend also told me there's so much waste and overhead that hoooooly shit
02:39 PM polprog: i wouldnt call that overhead
02:39 PM polprog: if you have a thing break down at LEO it costs a bit to go there and fix it
02:39 PM Emil: you usually don't
02:39 PM Emil: polprog: trust me
02:39 PM Emil: polprog: I know all the excuses ;)
02:39 PM polprog: yeah. you usually make redundancy
02:40 PM Emil: but yeah, real space grade things (not just designs) are pretty damn interesting
02:40 PM polprog: intersting, lucrative etc
02:40 PM Emil: polprog: what was the company you worked for?
02:40 PM polprog: shhh
02:40 PM polprog: :P keep guessing
02:41 PM Emil: polprog: comeon :D
02:41 PM Emil: pls share
02:41 PM polprog: nop
02:41 PM Emil: why not though
02:41 PM enh: It is a nice thing to work on.
02:41 PM enh: I guess it needs very interdisciplinary minds
02:43 PM renn0xtk9: When memory is it by radiation particle, is the memory cell f***cked forever? or one just need to reset it to its value via the two that are left and then it works afain
02:43 PM polprog: definitely needs a lot of abstract thinking
02:43 PM polprog: renn0xtk9: that depends, it can be fucked forever or just have the value flipped
02:43 PM enh: Kindof thing I like
02:44 PM enh: Do they need physicists there?
02:44 PM polprog: charged particles create temprary paths in silicon. most cases a power cycle solves that
02:44 PM polprog: enh: yeah,a lot
02:44 PM enh: Is there a place those physicists can apply for?
02:44 PM polprog: i think every technical profession finds jobs there
02:44 PM polprog: don't know
02:45 PM enh: Definetly something I would do
02:45 PM enh: s/tl/tel/
02:46 PM polprog: me too
02:46 PM polprog: iirc atmel makes rad-hard asics
02:46 PM Emil: polprog: comeone, I don't want to go full investigation on this :D
02:47 PM Emil: polprog: I have other things to do, too
02:47 PM polprog: Emil: i believe you would not find out if you did :P
02:47 PM enh: is there a hidden threat?
02:47 PM polprog: no
02:47 PM enh: on Emil's statement...
02:47 PM Emil: polprog: besides, just naming the company offers doesn't tell about you
02:47 PM Emil: enh: wat?
02:47 PM polprog: lol
02:49 PM renn0xtk9: he's working for the north korean space agency ! ;) :p
02:49 PM polprog: sending water rockets xD
02:50 PM renn0xtk9: that's all my childhoood^^
02:50 PM enh: Technically, hydrogen rockets could be called water rockets
02:52 PM renn0xtk9: indeed xD
02:52 PM polprog: V2 ran on hydrogen peroxide, close to water
02:52 PM renn0xtk9: right got to go. Thks all for you help !
02:53 PM polprog: have a good afternoon/night
02:53 PM Emil: night
03:27 PM polprog: anyway the iternship was nice
03:27 PM polprog: im still continuing my project
03:28 PM polprog: from home, when i have free time and desire
03:30 PM polprog: https://hackaday.com/2017/08/10/2017s-vcf-west-is-another-beloved-trip-down-memory-lane/ that PCB stack computer (i think its one) looks soooo damn cute
03:30 PM polprog: fallout-y
03:30 PM polprog: the displays <3
03:33 PM Guest11632 is now known as Emil_
03:43 PM polprog: cool music video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFkf3cJix8o
03:53 PM Emil: polprog: not bad
04:01 PM Emil: Gah
04:01 PM Emil: I have gone full 'tard with my tabs again
04:01 PM Emil: I swore to not have this happen ever again
04:33 PM polprog: out of ram or general clusterfuck?
04:34 PM Emil: no just general clusterfuck :D
04:34 PM Emil: Chrome is good
04:34 PM Emil: It doesn't use resources on tabs not visited in a while
04:34 PM Emil: I'm 10 tabs deep into the unknown now
04:34 PM Emil: Meaning
04:35 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-08-13_00-04-20_RgFp1iEm.png
04:35 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-08-13_00-04-31_9SoAoQPK.png
04:35 PM Emil: 10 tabs are not visible
04:35 PM Emil: polprog: that music and the subsequent videos have been nice to listen to
04:36 PM polprog: damn, i never had that much tabs open ever
04:37 PM polprog: btw, what specs do you have?
04:38 PM Emil: polprog: just a surface pro 3 i7 with 8 gigs of ram and 256 gigs of ssd
04:39 PM Emil: Pretty shite
04:39 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-08-13_00-08-21_Go0Y6sNC.png
04:39 PM Emil: This is not fucn though :D
04:39 PM polprog: >a person that is deep into tech
04:39 PM polprog: >uses surface
04:39 PM polprog: what
04:39 PM polprog: that's not how it works
04:40 PM Emil: :D
04:40 PM Emil: I bought it when I got into uni
04:40 PM Emil: Because of the pen
04:40 PM Emil: Being able to take digital notes for math and physics was pretty nice
04:40 PM Emil: But in hindsight, I didn't really benefit from it
04:41 PM Emil: But I had been without my own computer for like 2 years :D
04:41 PM Emil: Saving up
04:41 PM Emil: So I was swooned
04:41 PM Emil: but then hardware problems and all sorts of shite
04:41 PM Emil: yeah, I don't recommend it
04:41 PM Emil: Some thinkpad would have been better
04:42 PM enh: For taking notes I still prfer pencil and paper
04:42 PM polprog: ^^^
04:43 PM Emil: enh: absolutely agreed that that's a better choice
04:43 PM polprog: i was thinking about getting a rapidograph
04:43 PM Emil: but still super annoying because it's not digital
04:43 PM Emil: Hmm
04:43 PM Emil: What would be amazing is one of those pens that capture your input using an imu
04:44 PM Emil: I should make my own
04:44 PM Emil: would be a killer
04:44 PM enh: sometimes I see myself struggling to solve something using a computer. Then I remember I can just write, or draw it, with my own hands.
04:45 PM enh: We humans are super equipped with rdundant multi axix CNCs comanded by our minds. Amazing technology
04:45 PM enh: axis...
04:45 PM enh: We just need some training and... Voilà!
04:46 PM Emil: yeah
04:46 PM Lambda_Aurigae: but repetability is a bit iffy
04:46 PM enh: Yep. You can call that art. Or personal touch
04:52 PM polprog: you can always get a wacom tablet
04:52 PM polprog: anyway, good night
04:52 PM polprog: o/
04:53 PM enh: good sleep
04:53 PM enh: still 18:22 in Brazil
04:53 PM enh: Anybody is aware of the situation in Venezuela?
04:54 PM Lambda_Aurigae: it's south of the border and they don't speak english by default.
04:54 PM Lambda_Aurigae: beyond that, I know that if I go there I need to go armed with a half dozen bodyguards.
04:54 PM enh: Deep trouble there. People are saying that if a citizen does not commit to be a commuist, with a communist card, they may not stay in the country
04:55 PM Lambda_Aurigae: so, either overthrow the government or leave.
04:55 PM enh: Nicolas Maduro is the new comunist dictator. And Trump is treating to use force on him.
04:55 PM enh: government is smashing citizens
04:55 PM Lambda_Aurigae: trump is threatening to use force on anybody who looks at him sideways.
04:55 PM enh: threatening, sorry
04:56 PM enh: Deep trouble there.
04:56 PM enh: Those leftists are leaving a bloody mark on the people.
04:56 PM Lambda_Aurigae: unfortunately, nothing I can do from here.
04:57 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I got out of the military in 1991.
04:57 PM enh: At least we managed to aget rid of the extreme leftist wing here
04:57 PM enh: Sorry for the off topic messages.
04:58 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I'm guessing the citizens outnumber the government troops at least 10 to 1....enough people revolt they can take the government down.
04:58 PM Lambda_Aurigae: yes, people will die.
04:58 PM Lambda_Aurigae: but,,,sounds like people are dieing now.
04:58 PM enh: This is utopic. People are afraid. Troops are on the streets. Well armed.
04:59 PM enh: This is a one men's work.
04:59 PM Lambda_Aurigae: enough people go to the streets they can take the troops down....people are scared though
04:59 PM Lambda_Aurigae: which is what the government wants...scared people do what they are told.
04:59 PM enh: yep
04:59 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I will guarantee it is not true communism though.
05:00 PM Lambda_Aurigae: it's dictatorship using the wrong name most likely.
05:00 PM enh: There was a guy from military who took a helicopter and overflow the government place throuing greanades, but I believe he was taken.
05:00 PM enh: For sure it is not anything but dictatorship
05:00 PM Lambda_Aurigae: the government won't kill all the citizens or they won't have anybody to work for them.
05:01 PM Lambda_Aurigae: so, the citizens need to stand up for themselves and take the government down.
05:01 PM Lambda_Aurigae: but, sheeple won't do that.
05:01 PM enh: south america is a passive place. Many dictators took advantage of that.
05:01 PM Lambda_Aurigae: sheeple
05:01 PM enh: I think as you do, Lambda_Aurigae
05:01 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I blame religion
05:02 PM Lambda_Aurigae: mostly christianity
05:02 PM enh: But most people just stand head down
05:02 PM enh: I blame that too.
05:02 PM Lambda_Aurigae: someone comes here and tries to tell me what to think I'm going to put a crossbow bolt through a chest or three.
05:03 PM Lambda_Aurigae: homemade crossbows, homemade bolts.
05:03 PM enh: Me too. No crossbow, though
05:03 PM Lambda_Aurigae: made from old vehicle leaf springs.
05:03 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I also know how to make bows and arrows from scratch...taught myself over the years.
05:03 PM enh: Brazil was heading the same place, but they managed to take the workers party down.
05:04 PM enh: I should learn that
05:04 PM enh: Still many things I'd like to learn one day
05:06 PM enh: Do you have a link on homemabde crossbows? Or all you have is empirical astuff?
05:06 PM Lambda_Aurigae: http://poorfolkbows.com/oak.htm
05:06 PM Lambda_Aurigae: crossbows I did on my own.
05:06 PM Lambda_Aurigae: made my first one when I as 15.
05:07 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I currently have 4 of them in the basement and 2 in the workshop across the street.
05:09 PM enh: Very nice work!
05:09 PM enh: Well executed
05:09 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I didn't do that page..but have duplicated his work locally.
05:10 PM Lambda_Aurigae: takes some time but you can make some nice bows that way.
05:10 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I have a 35 pound pull and an 80 pound pull both made of oak.
05:10 PM enh: Anything like that is amazing.
05:10 PM Lambda_Aurigae: they aren't exactly pretty but they work.
05:10 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I can barely pull the 80
05:10 PM Lambda_Aurigae: will work up to it eventually.
05:11 PM Lambda_Aurigae: need to make a 45, 55, and 65 next.
05:11 PM enh: and the bolts?
05:11 PM enh: Are they "easy" to make?
05:11 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I use steel rod with plastic fletchings
05:11 PM Lambda_Aurigae: j-b weld epoxy to hold the fletchings in place.
05:11 PM enh: That can hold a lot of energy
05:12 PM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah...14 inch long 3/16 diameter steel rod.
05:12 PM enh: This can go across a chest easily
05:13 PM Lambda_Aurigae: my latest crossbow is a 4 pulley(with 2 offset pulleys) compound crossbow.
05:13 PM Lambda_Aurigae: measures 200 pounds at start of draw..28 pounds at full draw back.
05:13 PM Lambda_Aurigae: using high tensile steel cable for the bowstring..hehe
05:14 PM enh: Nice hobby
05:14 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I put a bolt through a red brick wall at 30 paces...ALL the way through..
05:14 PM enh: I like woodowrking. But all I did was balsa
05:14 PM Lambda_Aurigae: like, it came out the other side, stripping the fletchings completely off.
05:14 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I do balsa stuff too..not in the last 15 years though.
05:14 PM Lambda_Aurigae: used to make RC aircraft..
05:15 PM Lambda_Aurigae: my own hand drawn plans for them too.
05:15 PM Lambda_Aurigae: some flew well, some flew like shit, some didn't fly...and everything in between.
05:15 PM Lambda_Aurigae: probably made 30 planes over the years..
05:16 PM Lambda_Aurigae: the ones that flew well I sold to avid fliers.
05:16 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I got good at airfoil and full wing designs.
05:16 PM enh: That is a nice hobby too
05:16 PM enh: I like it.
05:16 PM Lambda_Aurigae: my biggest was a 4 meter sailplane.
05:17 PM Lambda_Aurigae: on a good day I could keep it airborne for over 2 hours.
05:17 PM enh: I always wanted a CNC to cut wood and make things easier. Now I have one, but have no time...
05:17 PM enh: 4 meters? The biggest I did was 3
05:17 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I did all the cutting by hand with x-acto knives...or better yet, surgical scalpels.
05:17 PM Lambda_Aurigae: the wing on that 4 meter was in 5 pieces.
05:18 PM enh: I drew on CAD, cut the paper, glued over balsa and used a vertical dremel table to sand it out
05:18 PM Lambda_Aurigae: and 25cm wide at the base where it attached to the plane's fuselage.
05:18 PM enh: mine is 3 pieces, 23 cm wide
05:19 PM enh: wingtip smalle than wing root. lots of time cutting different airfoils
05:19 PM Lambda_Aurigae: monokote wasn't strong enough or light enough for it either.
05:19 PM enh: what did you use?
05:19 PM Lambda_Aurigae: so we covered it with rice paper.
05:19 PM Lambda_Aurigae: half the weight of monokote.
05:19 PM enh: and varnish
05:19 PM Lambda_Aurigae: this was back in 1988.
05:19 PM Lambda_Aurigae: no varnish.
05:19 PM Lambda_Aurigae: also called Dope at the time.
05:20 PM enh: just paper? How did you stretch it?
05:20 PM enh: Ah, Dope. Ok
05:20 PM Lambda_Aurigae: very carefully tacked it down smooth with superglue
05:20 PM Lambda_Aurigae: then made a plastic sheeted cover and blew steam in.
05:20 PM Lambda_Aurigae: cover was 4.5 meters long and a meter square.
05:20 PM enh: The downside is that any touch cuts the wing
05:21 PM Lambda_Aurigae: not really.
05:21 PM enh: strong enough?
05:21 PM Lambda_Aurigae: thick rice paper, once stretched, is pretty durable.
05:21 PM Lambda_Aurigae: there's super thin stuff that will tear if you look sideways at it.
05:21 PM enh: I once flew a glider through a football goal bar. Soo bad
05:21 PM Lambda_Aurigae: hehe.
05:21 PM Lambda_Aurigae: we made bombers when I was in Australia
05:22 PM Lambda_Aurigae: loaded them up with colored powder bombs.
05:22 PM Lambda_Aurigae: would dive bomb a target.
05:22 PM enh: nice!
05:22 PM Lambda_Aurigae: the bombs were about the size of my thumb usually..sometimes big as a goose egg for the bigger planes.
05:22 PM enh: I did some planes in paper too. arifoils and stuff. But they were small. Mostly 40cm
05:22 PM Lambda_Aurigae: they would have 4 to 8 on board.
05:22 PM Lambda_Aurigae: one guy decided to load his bombs up with water.
05:23 PM Lambda_Aurigae: took off...couldn't get altitude fast enough...had it full throttle and yanked full up...shredded the plane through the fence at the end of the rugby field we used as a runway.
05:23 PM enh: :)
05:23 PM enh: poor plane
05:23 PM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah.
05:23 PM Lambda_Aurigae: not as bad as the helo though.
05:23 PM Lambda_Aurigae: this was 1997.
05:24 PM Lambda_Aurigae: biig RC helo for the time... a .90 engine on it.
05:24 PM Lambda_Aurigae: cost a couple thousand dollars at least.
05:24 PM Lambda_Aurigae: hell, the radio was over 1000 for a good helo controller at the time.
05:25 PM Lambda_Aurigae: another guy had a little bitty glider...like 30cm wingspan.
05:25 PM Lambda_Aurigae: we were towing it up with my 2 meter high wing with a 1.20 4-stroke...
05:25 PM Lambda_Aurigae: but my engine started having problems so it got grounded.
05:25 PM Lambda_Aurigae: the guy with the helo said, "I can lift it for you!"
05:25 PM enh: ops
05:25 PM Lambda_Aurigae: so they hooked the tow cord to the bottom of the helo and to the plane and pulled it right up.
05:26 PM Lambda_Aurigae: got up to about 50 meters altitude and dropped.
05:26 PM Lambda_Aurigae: plane released and flew away pretty as you please.
05:26 PM Lambda_Aurigae: helo started wobbling and the pilot started cussing...said he was losing power and altitude...
05:26 PM enh: ow
05:26 PM Lambda_Aurigae: suddenly the blades stopped and it fell like a rock from about 30 meters.
05:27 PM enh: shit
05:27 PM Lambda_Aurigae: the tow cord was kind of springy.
05:27 PM Lambda_Aurigae: when the plane released the cord jerked up and got caught in the main rotor.
05:27 PM Lambda_Aurigae: twist twist...FALLL
05:27 PM enh: big sh*t
05:27 PM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah.
05:27 PM Lambda_Aurigae: 100% totalled.
05:27 PM enh: did it hit someone?
05:29 PM enh: I once left a loop with a glider in a very empty and quiet area. When it was very near the floor, maximum speed, a car appered. I pulled all I could and the glider passed about 40cm above the car window.
05:29 PM enh: At, maybe 150km/h
05:30 PM enh: Still dunno how I did that
05:30 PM enh: Or where did the car come from.
05:34 PM enh: RC glider
05:36 PM Lambda_Aurigae: nope..we were smart enough to stay out of the way.
05:36 PM Lambda_Aurigae: thinking of getting back into RC planes.
05:36 PM Lambda_Aurigae: have plenty of cornfields and such to fly in here.
05:37 PM enh: Must be a quiet place
05:37 PM Lambda_Aurigae: middle of nowhere Iowa, USA
05:38 PM enh: I plan to live away from big cities in the near future. It is very hardo to see the sky in a big city
05:38 PM enh: Sky contemplating is a great way to clean my mind
05:39 PM Lambda_Aurigae: https://www.google.com/maps/place/1729+Marble+Rd,+Union,+IA+50258/@42.1735371,-93.0960671,526m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x87efb535c08a7595:0x4918e4a6717fae72!8m2!3d42.1735371!4d-93.0938784
05:40 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I live there.
05:41 PM enh: Indeed a perfect place for flying RCs and watching skies
05:42 PM enh: Any mountains around?
05:42 PM Lambda_Aurigae: nope.
05:42 PM Lambda_Aurigae: not flat like kansas but no mountains.
05:42 PM Lambda_Aurigae: have to drive at least 3 hours to get to anything I would call anything like mountains.
05:42 PM enh: far horizons
05:43 PM enh: nice place
05:43 PM Lambda_Aurigae: Iowa has the nicest people overall that I've ever met.
05:43 PM enh: Where do you find printers to fix there?
05:44 PM Lambda_Aurigae: all over.
05:44 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I'm 25 miles from a city of 50K people.
05:44 PM Lambda_Aurigae: and an hour drive from Des Moines.
05:44 PM Lambda_Aurigae: lots of small towns everywhere.
05:44 PM enh: good enough
05:45 PM Lambda_Aurigae: many small businesses all over.
05:45 PM enh: living in a peacefull place is excellent. Even more if you can make money there
05:45 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I make a little over 23 dollars an hour plus bonuses.
05:46 PM enh: more than enough
05:47 PM Lambda_Aurigae: twice what my wife makes and she has a 4 year university degree.
05:47 PM enh: i have a phd and it still means nothing
05:48 PM Lambda_Aurigae: piled higher and deeper
05:48 PM enh: useless shit in a world where science turned into compeetition
05:49 PM enh: for me science always meant cooperation
05:49 PM Lambda_Aurigae: it should.
05:49 PM Lambda_Aurigae: but it's all a competition
05:49 PM enh: but it isn't
05:49 PM enh: yep
05:49 PM enh: lots of wasted money
05:49 PM Lambda_Aurigae: universities here are more worried about their football teams than their academic standings.
05:50 PM enh: scientists competing worldwide for results and publication number
05:50 PM Lambda_Aurigae: when a football coach makes millions a year and a physics professor makes less than 80K a year.
05:50 PM enh: depressive
05:51 PM enh: All i want now is my control system to fly
05:51 PM Emil: enh: depressing*
05:51 PM Lambda_Aurigae: that too.
05:51 PM Emil: enh: you can make it fly
05:52 PM Lambda_Aurigae: with enough power ANYTHING can fly.
05:52 PM enh: it is taking too long, Emil. But I'm quite persistent
05:52 PM Lambda_Aurigae: just look at the F4 Phantom.
05:52 PM enh: flying nail
05:52 PM Lambda_Aurigae: flying brick
05:53 PM enh: Persistence is my name, or I would not survive my phd
05:54 PM Lambda_Aurigae: never even went to college or university here.
05:54 PM Lambda_Aurigae: out of high school and straight into the USAF
05:54 PM enh: happy person you are
05:54 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I wanted to go.
05:54 PM enh: happy and smart
05:55 PM Lambda_Aurigae: had a chance with a major scholarship to MIT
05:55 PM Lambda_Aurigae: but I had already signed up and sworn into the USAF
05:55 PM Lambda_Aurigae: my recruiter told me I couldn't get out of it.
05:55 PM Lambda_Aurigae: found out AFTER I was in basic training that they could have delayed my enlistment while I went to university and once I had my degree then gone into the military as an officer.
05:56 PM Lambda_Aurigae: if I ever find that little bastard Sgt Pigg I will ring his neck.
05:57 PM enh: Some things we take too long to discover. I regret a few of those too.sorry. I have to bathe and feed the kid. Be back in one hour.
05:57 PM Lambda_Aurigae: children...a sexually transmitted disease...and 100% fatal.
05:57 PM enh: :)
05:58 PM enh: An amazing experience
06:41 PM Lambda_Aurigae: drain on resources.
06:41 PM Lambda_Aurigae: how is a guy expected to buy his own toys if he has to buy them for the ankle biters?!?!?!
07:44 PM x7C3: hi, having an issue with avrdude on linux
07:45 PM x7C3: "avrdude: jtag3_open_common(): Did not find any device matching VID 0x03eb and PID list: 0x2110, 0x2140"
07:45 PM x7C3: lsusb shows this "Bus 003 Device 009: ID 03eb:2141 Atmel Corp. ICE debugger"
07:45 PM x7C3: i'm fairly certain this is a jtag3 debugger
07:46 PM x7C3: any ideas?
08:01 PM enh: back
08:05 PM enh: Lambda_Aurigae: Have you read Millenial Hospitality?
08:22 PM enh: x7C3: Yrp
08:22 PM enh: Yep
08:22 PM enh: Only avrdude latest version recognizes ATMEL ICE
08:23 PM enh: Versions 6.x, if I remember well, do not recognize it
08:48 PM Lambda_Aurigae: enh, never heard of it.
08:48 PM enh: You may enjoy reading
08:48 PM Lambda_Aurigae: tech manual, scifi, or fantasy?
08:49 PM enh: the author says it is real. An airman from USAF
08:49 PM Lambda_Aurigae: bah..I get enough reality in real life.
08:50 PM enh: https://smile.amazon.com/Millennial-Hospitality-Charles-James-Hall-ebook/dp/B00DAOH36M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1502587195&sr=8-1&keywords=millennial+hospitality
08:52 PM enh: Dozens of reports of his experiences while launching helium balloons for USAF.
08:52 PM enh: He even answers emails sometimes.
08:55 PM enh: I read all five books. Interesting stuff.
08:57 PM enh: It seems to be about things that cannot be changed, or managed, or published. They are just there, as have been for hundreds of years.
08:57 PM enh: He made me care less and less about that stuff.
09:05 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I pretty much hate everybody equally until they somehow impress me enough to change my mind.
09:05 PM enh: :)
09:07 PM enh: I understand you.
09:08 PM enh: IT seems avr-gcc has an issue with pure virtual methods
09:10 PM Lambda_Aurigae: c++ stuff..eeewww.
09:10 PM Lambda_Aurigae: hehe
09:12 PM enh: It seems I'm not alone. Similar bugs reported on AVR freaks and stack overflow
09:13 PM enh: For modular stuff, c++ is quite useful
09:16 PM enh: This article is an attempt to understand what is needed for happiness, where it can be taken or how it can be written.
09:16 PM enh: I know, that some developers think, that C++ is not a good choice for microcontrollers. I ask these people to read at least the last section of the article before writing comments.
09:16 PM enh: from: http://kibergus.su/en/node/92
09:17 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I just don't like classes in general.
09:17 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I can make C code nice and modular all by itself.
09:19 PM enh: I'm sure you can
09:25 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
09:32 PM x7C3: enh: so i have to downgrade to 5.x?
09:32 PM x7C3: welp
09:33 PM enh: x7C3: No. You need to upgrade to latest
09:33 PM x7C3: i'm on 6.3
09:33 PM x7C3: unless you mean a dev/git ver?
09:34 PM enh: Check on the website if you have the latest. I believe I had to compile from latest sources
09:34 PM enh: I had the same issue on mac
09:35 PM x7C3: 6.3 seems to be latest, so that shouldn't be an issue
09:35 PM x7C3: unless it's something else on my sytem
09:35 PM x7C3: *system
09:41 PM enh: Try compiling from sources. There is also a command that lists compatible programmers, I believe. If ATMEL ICE is not there, you do not have the latest code.
09:42 PM enh: It took me a long time to find the cause of this problem on mac.
09:44 PM x7C3: hrm, all ICE models are supported
09:45 PM enh: Then why isn't it recognizing your device?
09:47 PM * x7C3 shrugs
09:47 PM x7C3: will keep poking around
10:07 PM enh: sorry, x7C3
10:08 PM x7C3: all good :)