#avr Logs
Aug 01 2017
#avr Calendar
12:01 AM day_ is now known as daey
02:37 AM Thrashbarg_ is now known as Thrashbarg
03:45 AM Thrashbarg_ is now known as Thrashbarg
05:19 AM Emil: hEY
05:19 AM Emil: Hey*
05:19 AM Emil: Who here had played around with multirotors and planes?
05:19 AM Emil: not enhering :D
05:25 AM * Haohmaru is innocent
05:39 AM Lambda_Aurigae: https://www.tindie.com/stores/tinyfpga/
05:40 AM Lambda_Aurigae: never done much with multirotors here..
05:40 AM Lambda_Aurigae: flew plenty of RC planes over the years though.
05:42 AM Haohmaru: guilty!
05:42 AM Haohmaru: so wut stuff can you do with that eff pea gee ay?
05:51 AM Lambda_Aurigae: anything you can do with a microcontroller I guess.
05:51 AM Lambda_Aurigae: right now, I can't do anything with it as I don't have the knowledge.
05:51 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but,,soon...
05:51 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I hope.
05:51 AM Lambda_Aurigae: would like to get one but don't have the jtag programmer for it.
05:52 AM Lambda_Aurigae: so waiting for generation B units to come out.
05:53 AM Lambda_Aurigae: hoping that 1200 logic cells will be enough to make something fun too.
05:53 AM Lambda_Aurigae: it's awfully small for an FPGA
05:54 AM Lambda_Aurigae: https://hackaday.io/project/25958-tinyfpga-a-series
05:55 AM Lambda_Aurigae: more info
05:56 AM Haohmaru: and how do you code for that thing?
05:56 AM _ami_: Haohmaru, http://tinyfpga.com/a-series-guide.html
05:59 AM Haohmaru: this doesn't smell easy
06:00 AM polprog: woild like to get into fpgas
06:01 AM Haohmaru: i'd rather get into arm
06:01 AM Haohmaru: but i'm too dumb for that
06:02 AM polprog: i was thinking about arms too... gotta get some bare breakout board and a programmer
06:04 AM _ami_: polprog, stm32 is probably good one to start.
06:05 AM polprog: yeah, i guess
06:05 AM polprog: i will get it probably
06:05 AM Lambda_Aurigae: stm32 blue pill boards are decent.
06:06 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and cheap.
06:06 AM Haohmaru: do they tie you to work with a specific compiler/ide/programmer?
06:07 AM Lambda_Aurigae: oh yes.
06:07 AM Haohmaru: fugg
06:07 AM Haohmaru: dem bastards
06:07 AM Lambda_Aurigae: with fpga you are basically doing software level hardware design.
06:07 AM Haohmaru: uh.. i meant arm
06:07 AM Lambda_Aurigae: you are working with logic cells,,,tying them together and telling them what kind of logic they do.
06:07 AM Lambda_Aurigae: oh
06:07 AM Haohmaru: this fpga thing is not for me at all
06:07 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I use gcc for stm32.
06:09 AM _ami_: Lambda_Aurigae, i also use gcc.
06:09 AM _ami_: and libopencm3.
06:09 AM polprog: im setting up a linux workstation to use gcc toolchain and other tools i know for avr at work next week
06:10 AM polprog: we wont be touching atmel studio
06:10 AM Haohmaru: i've always avoided atmel studio
06:10 AM Lambda_Aurigae: polprog, back about 15 years ago I made a linux live cd distro with AVR tools built in...it was a bootable CD just for doing AVR dev.
06:10 AM _ami_: i have never used atmel studio :P
06:10 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I should recreate that with a modern distro.
06:10 AM polprog: Lambda_Aurigae: awesome
06:11 AM Haohmaru: well i am currently on a almost freshly installed debian9
06:11 AM polprog: bare kernel + shell or based on existing distro was it?
06:11 AM Haohmaru: and i'll be trying to make a bootloader for xmega128a3u
06:11 AM Lambda_Aurigae: polprog, was a slackware based distro...full X gui and all.
06:11 AM _ami_: btw polprog, http://amitesh-singh.github.io/stm32/2017/04/09/setting-stm32-dev-environment-arch-linux.html - this should you get started on stm32
06:11 AM * _ami_ uses archlinux
06:12 AM Haohmaru: ur a h4x0r
06:12 AM * _ami_ and runs enlightenment as wm.
06:12 AM * Haohmaru runs LXDE
06:12 AM polprog: thanks Lambda_Aurigae
06:12 AM Lambda_Aurigae: back then I sold these little kits with everything you needed to program AVR except for a computer with parallel port..
06:12 AM * polprog runs arch+xfce
06:13 AM Lambda_Aurigae: _ami_ did it, not me!
06:13 AM Lambda_Aurigae: [:
06:13 AM Haohmaru: so what else do you need besides avrgcc and a fancy text editor/IDE ?
06:13 AM Haohmaru: ..and avrdude
06:13 AM Lambda_Aurigae: my kits came in a wooden box with a couple of different AVR chips, breadboard, caps, resistors, LEDs, and a parallel port programmer.
06:13 AM polprog: gdb/avarice would be nice
06:13 AM Lambda_Aurigae: fancy text editor Haohmaru ?
06:13 AM Lambda_Aurigae: vi
06:14 AM Haohmaru: >:(
06:14 AM Lambda_Aurigae: you need programmer hardware of some kind.
06:14 AM polprog: and maybe radare for decompiling
06:14 AM Haohmaru: code::blocks for me, thanks
06:14 AM polprog: lol
06:14 AM polprog: emacs 4lyf
06:14 AM Haohmaru: Lambda_Aurigae, well you can't include that into your linux iso, can you
06:14 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I use kate or gedit or vi depending on my mood.
06:14 AM _ami_: i have started using visual-studio-code and i like it now. :) i was an avid vim user before though.
06:14 AM Lambda_Aurigae: Haohmaru, nope...but I did include the live CD with my kit..
06:14 AM polprog: i should learn vim cos its POSIX
06:15 AM Lambda_Aurigae: vi
06:15 AM Lambda_Aurigae: not vim
06:15 AM Lambda_Aurigae: old fashioned vi
06:15 AM _ami_: Lambda_Aurigae, :)
06:15 AM polprog: vim is on most distros now
06:15 AM Lambda_Aurigae: although, I can use ed or edlin too if necessary.
06:15 AM _ami_: i have alias vi=vim setting :P
06:15 AM polprog: but yeah, youtr right lambda
06:15 AM Haohmaru: i once ended up with this vi or vim opened..
06:16 AM polprog: alias vi=nano
06:16 AM Haohmaru: i felt like the only way out of the situation is to unplug the PC
06:16 AM polprog: :ZZ
06:16 AM Lambda_Aurigae: :q!
06:16 AM Lambda_Aurigae: or <esc>:q!
06:16 AM Haohmaru: whatever i tried to press did something.. and it didn't look right at all
06:16 AM Lambda_Aurigae: gets you out of any odd command mode.
06:17 AM Haohmaru: and that kept intensifying..
06:17 AM Haohmaru: and i think i was also root
06:17 AM Haohmaru: the h0rr0r
06:17 AM Lambda_Aurigae: linux man command is somewhat vi based too.
06:18 AM Lambda_Aurigae: uses vi command interface and some commands anyhow.
06:21 AM Haohmaru: i use pico
06:21 AM Lambda_Aurigae: whatever works.
06:21 AM Haohmaru: i've tried nano, it smells the same as pico
06:21 AM Lambda_Aurigae: SSDF
06:21 AM Haohmaru: wut?
06:22 AM * Haohmaru checks Lambda_Aurigae's keyboard cables
06:22 AM _ami_: Lambda_Aurigae, finally i boughtmy first soldering station. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/YIHUA-995D-soldering-station-used-for-motherboard-repair-tool/1794837776.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.0DDLgh
06:22 AM Lambda_Aurigae: nano being a free license version of pico as I recall.
06:22 AM Lambda_Aurigae: SSDF=same smell different finger
06:22 AM _ami_: its arrived on monday and i have tested hot air gun till now and happy with the performance.
06:23 AM _ami_: will test solder iron today.
06:23 AM Lambda_Aurigae: nice
06:23 AM Lambda_Aurigae: no hot air gun here.
06:23 AM Lambda_Aurigae: just half a dozen different soldering guns
06:23 AM Lambda_Aurigae: err
06:23 AM Lambda_Aurigae: soldering irons
06:23 AM _ami_: Lambda_Aurigae, how do you do smd soldering stuffs then?
06:23 AM Haohmaru: i use the cheapest 5 bucks soldering iron.. it's 40W or so
06:23 AM Lambda_Aurigae: in general, I don't.
06:23 AM _ami_: aha, ok
06:23 AM Haohmaru: i have another one which is 35W
06:23 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I prefer through hole.
06:24 AM Lambda_Aurigae: my hands shake too much due to nerve damage.
06:24 AM _ami_: sad to hear that.
06:24 AM Lambda_Aurigae: is life in the big city.
06:25 AM _ami_: i got it delivered in record 3 days! :)
06:25 AM _ami_: via DHL
06:25 AM Lambda_Aurigae: who did you kill for that?
06:25 AM _ami_: i just got lucky i think
06:26 AM _ami_: i have moved to different country though. i am in s. korea now
06:27 AM _ami_: its a neighbour country to china
06:27 AM _ami_: delivery time is FASTER here compare to my native country.
06:28 AM Lambda_Aurigae: https://www.circuitspecialists.com/csi8786d_digital_hot_air_rework_station_with_soldering_iron.html
06:28 AM Lambda_Aurigae: would like to grab one of those.
06:32 AM Lambda_Aurigae: ok..time to get ready for to go to work.
06:37 AM _ami_: time to go home.
06:46 AM Haohmaru: woohoo, compiler works
06:48 AM Tom_itx: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/xilinx1.jpg
06:48 AM Tom_itx: Lambda_Aurigae, i started with that
06:49 AM Haohmaru: "RP" are those resistor arrays?
06:50 AM Tom_itx: dunno about latice tools either
06:51 AM Tom_itx: probably
07:26 AM Lambda_Aurigae: Tom_itx, bit pricy?
07:27 AM Lambda_Aurigae: lattice tools are linux and windows compatible too.
07:28 AM Lambda_Aurigae: Haohmaru, yes, RP is resistor pack.
08:10 AM Haohmaru: actually the boot sector on the xmega is fully separate.. how nifty
08:11 AM Haohmaru: atmel was so generous
08:11 AM Haohmaru: :~(
08:28 AM Haohmaru: i had a build error due to not properly setup project.. and C::B jumps to the line in code where the error is
08:28 AM Haohmaru: it happens to be that the error was actually an #error line in that header
08:29 AM Haohmaru: i knew it was something wrong with my avrgcc compiler settings, since i've had this before (the configuration for avrgcc happens to use headers from gcc)
08:29 AM Haohmaru: and to check that i wanted to find where this "features.h" is located, to see if that's indeed a gcc header (vs an avrgcc header)
08:30 AM Haohmaru: to see the location - i open the properties dialog in C::B
08:30 AM Haohmaru: and boom, i see that with big text o_O
08:30 AM Haohmaru: it's not related to what i'm doing, i pretty much don't care.. but it doesn't make sense to me
08:31 AM Haohmaru: in anyway, that's no issue.. i fixed my settings, compiler is working fine now
08:34 AM Haohmaru: dafuq is this "-Wa,-gdwarf2" linker/assembler option?! any ideas?
08:35 AM Haohmaru: oh sh*t, that previous chunk of stuff i said was not for this channel x_x
08:35 AM Haohmaru: f*ck xchat >:(
08:54 AM Haohmaru: dwarf2 debug format it seems.. geezus that was hard to find
10:23 AM enh: hi
10:34 AM polprog: hi
10:47 AM polprog: Emil: what's that thingie on the new vid :D ?
10:49 AM Emil: polprog: it's an experiment :D
10:51 AM enh: Jartza: server is down
10:51 AM polprog: Emil: i see, what was the aim :P
10:52 AM Emil: Experimenting with motors and ESCs, i2c/twi, PID control and after all is done and experimented with, a flying thing
10:52 AM Emil: plane
10:53 AM Emil: I already broke it once when going too fast
10:53 AM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/experiment.jpg
10:54 AM Emil: Added some moar hot glue
10:56 AM HighInBC: nice
10:56 AM HighInBC: always nice to make a robot and watch it fly
10:57 AM polprog: lol
10:57 AM polprog: cool
10:58 AM Emil: You can really tell humans are not made for high frequency pid control :D
10:58 AM Emil: Dem oscillations
11:05 AM enh: Found a way to treat module capacity redundancy with relative ease
11:07 AM enh: First I call the module and ask for a long with a capacity list. Each bit of the value corrsponds to a capacity, like accelerometer, gyro, kalman, servos, etc.
11:08 AM enh: This builds a matrix with slots on y and capacities on x
11:08 AM bss36504: Emil: Did Wiha ever get back to you for geofiltering their website?
11:08 AM enh: If I trsnspose this matrix, I get capacities on y and slots on x.
11:08 AM Emil: bss36504: hm?
11:08 AM Emil: Wiha?
11:09 AM Emil: geofiltering?
11:09 AM Emil: bss36504: whatcha mean?
11:09 AM bss36504: I sent you a link to those Wiha screwdrivers a while back and you penned them an irate email because they were blocking access to their site based on your locale haha
11:09 AM Emil: aah
11:09 AM Emil: no
11:09 AM Emil: no response
11:10 AM Emil: nada
11:10 AM bss36504: haha oh well
11:19 AM enh: There is a lot of people on the channel list, but the great majority is silent. Are all those people bots?
11:19 AM polprog: you never know who's bot on irc
11:20 AM polprog: one thing i can tell you in secret
11:20 AM polprog: i am not a bot, i am typing this with my real fingers
11:20 AM bss36504: A lot of them only pipe up once in a while
11:20 AM bss36504: polprog: that sounds like something a bot would say...
11:20 AM polprog: bss36504: i am afraid you are wrong
11:20 AM bss36504: My real fingers. Covered in flesh. Because I am human
11:20 AM bss36504: Definitely not a robot
11:20 AM polprog: positive
11:21 AM enh: Who told you that, bss36504?
11:21 AM polprog: ;)
11:21 AM bss36504: enh: told me what?
11:21 AM enh: You can be an organic bot.
11:21 AM enh: Programmed to believe you are human.
11:22 AM enh: You cannot be sure you are human.
11:22 AM bss36504: This could all be a simulation
11:22 AM bss36504: of some higher being
11:22 AM enh: for example. yes.
11:22 AM enh: Nobody said reality is real.
11:22 AM HighInBC: I think a few people said it
11:22 AM HighInBC: reality is real, but is this reality???
11:23 AM bss36504: or maybe we'er in some "rick and morty"-esque parallel universe generator and our entire existence is devoted to generating energy which can be siphoned off into another dimension.
11:23 AM bss36504: we're*
11:23 AM enh: That is a possibility
11:23 AM HighInBC: that would explain the last year
11:24 AM enh: If that is true, if everybody commits suicide now, some flashlight in some parallel universe will stop working
11:24 AM bss36504: And that fucker deserves to be in the dark :P
11:24 AM enh: :)
11:25 AM enh: Better stay like that. Let there be light.
11:25 AM enh: At least we have some power in this way.
11:26 AM bss36504: Indeed. Might as well make the best of our little universe
11:26 AM enh: Does anybody here believe in free will?
11:26 AM bss36504: boy, this channel really took an existential turn
11:27 AM bss36504: somebody summon rue to change the topic to include philosophy
11:27 AM enh: Free will may not exist. It may be just a preview of the future, projected as a desire in our three dimensional brain.
11:28 AM enh: This solves everything. The universe now can be ruled by a complex equation.
11:28 AM bss36504: If it doesn't exist, then I prefer to enjoy the blissful illusion that it does.
11:28 AM enh: Are you sure you are not a bot, bss36504?
11:29 AM bss36504: Nope, this might be westworld
11:29 AM enh: I'll go back to my code. We are looping around.
11:29 AM bss36504: Now, if we (humans) were all robots, then Westworld would be some ultra ironic meta shit
11:29 AM bss36504: Do you think we're stuck in a loop?!
11:29 AM enh: I do
11:30 AM enh: After all, with no free will and no certainty that we are humans, we may be just looping around
11:31 AM bss36504: My brain hurts, gonna go back to simulating delay chains...
11:32 AM enh: interlocki engaged
11:32 AM enh: interlock
11:36 AM Emil: enh: "humans"
11:38 AM enh: I mispelled it?
11:39 AM Emil: No
11:39 AM Emil: I mean
11:39 AM Emil: Our whole existence
11:39 AM enh: hum
11:39 AM Emil: We _are_ humans
11:39 AM enh: Sure about that? You can be hipnotized to watch a dog and see a car
11:40 AM enh: look at a dog and see...
11:40 AM enh: Your memory is plastic
11:41 AM enh: I am only sure of one thing. I am. The wholre rest is changeable
11:41 AM enh: whole
11:42 AM polprog: hmm, i have a ts3 client installed
11:43 AM enh: The subject who watches everything, thoughts, emotions, body, memory. That is the on;y certain. All the observed objcts are just objects
11:43 AM Emil: You are reading it wrong
11:43 AM enh: Nope
11:43 AM Emil: Only your observations are "real"
11:43 AM Emil: Your interpretation of them might not be
11:44 AM enh: You mean your observations made with your eyes, your mind's eye, or with some thing else?
11:44 AM Emil: mind
11:45 AM enh: The symbols your mind 'sees' are constructed too
11:46 AM polprog: your eyes are introducing distortion like every transducer, you cant for example see far IR
11:46 AM enh: Although very real, there is no reality in reality
11:46 AM enh: From sanskrit: Taking the whole from the whole, leaves indeed the whole
11:46 AM Emil: We can only observe
11:47 AM Emil: And then attempt action
11:47 AM enh: yep. And this is much, much deeper than you probably see now
11:47 AM enh: no action
11:47 AM Emil: _attempt_ action
11:47 AM Emil: We can only observe what happens
11:48 AM enh: This is soooo relative
11:49 AM enh: Imagine you are dreaming, Emil.
11:49 AM enh: Your dream is created in your mind
11:49 AM enh: physical laws, characteres, situations
11:49 AM enh: gravity
11:50 AM enh: all created
11:50 AM enh: One consciousness behind, which believes it is one character
11:50 AM enh: But it is all.
11:50 AM enh: Absolute is all. Nothing beyond absolute
11:50 AM enh: one consciousness behind all.
11:50 AM enh: yet, you believe you are different
11:51 AM enh: Tat twam asi. You are that.
11:51 AM enh: Enough for today.
11:51 AM Emil: I know
11:51 AM Emil: Mate you try to school me :D
11:52 AM Emil: I'm an edgy kid who has spend way too many hours on Wikipedia
11:52 AM enh: Nope. Just a chat
11:53 AM enh: Search then for advaita vedanta. The wisdom of the vedas.
11:53 AM polprog: whn i was 7 i once counsciously woke up from a nightmare
11:54 AM antto: why does it smell like religios bullsh*t around here?
11:54 AM antto: >:/
11:54 AM polprog: i imagined i changed a channel on a tv :P
11:54 AM polprog: and the nightmare was gone
11:54 AM enh: no religion. Sorry. Just phylosophy
11:54 AM polprog: but yeah, let's go a bit more abstract and closer to life...
11:54 AM enh: philosophy
11:55 AM Emil: Hngh
11:55 AM enh: i always mispell it
11:55 AM Emil: A full fledged i2c driver should handle 30 different cases :D
11:55 AM Emil: polprog: when I was like, umm, 9
11:55 AM antto: a full fledged i2c driver should actually use SPI inside
11:55 AM Emil: No I was younger
11:55 AM antto: >:)
11:55 AM enh: maybe phylosophi. ope...
11:55 AM Emil: antto: :D
11:55 AM Emil: I was like 8
11:55 AM polprog: yeah
11:55 AM Emil: I loaned this scary book from the library
11:56 AM Emil: about witches and werewolves and shit
11:56 AM Emil: There was this one page that was super scary
11:56 AM Emil: It had people in a cave and werewolves outside trying to murder everyone
11:56 AM Emil: I got some nightmares from that
11:56 AM polprog: hmm
11:56 AM Emil: Fast forward a few months and I'm at our cottage
11:57 AM Emil: it's like 3 in the morning
11:57 AM Emil: I'm lying in bed pretty scared
11:57 AM Emil: Sleeping in a different room from others
11:57 AM Emil: but then I just realise, it's only dreams
11:57 AM Emil: and in my dreams I'm the fucking king
11:58 AM Emil: If there's any scary thing ever, I'll just punch it because I'm a god of my dreams
11:58 AM Emil: not a single nightmare after that
11:58 AM polprog: hmm
11:58 AM polprog: i think i only had nightmares when i had fever
11:59 AM enh: In fact, you are yourself and the fucking scary thing, all at the same time. Also you are the space between both
11:59 AM antto: i love nightmares, but i hate waking up sometimes
11:59 AM antto: :/
11:59 AM Emil: enh: exactly, I'm the god of my dreams
11:59 AM Emil: enh: I can just falcon punch scary dreams away
12:00 PM antto: no, actually, i hate those nightmares with cockroaches involved
12:00 PM antto: pls no more :~(
12:00 PM Emil: But what's really fun is having lucid dreams
12:00 PM Emil: I have just once had a lucid dream
12:00 PM Emil: Almost a second time but not quite
12:01 PM Emil: First time I of fly around and things, second time I of course try to fuck things :D
12:02 PM Emil: Blocking or nonblocking twi driver?
12:02 PM bss36504: Emil: Why not both?
12:02 PM antto: a few times i reached the point where i started to ask myself "wait a minute, is this a dream right now?" and started looking for the usual signs.. and then "AHA! IT'S A DREAM \o/" but it's then hard to stay in
12:03 PM Emil: bss36504: hmm, well, blocking is only a very thin wrapper on nonblocking
12:03 PM Emil: so I guess why not
12:03 PM antto: but a few times i remember when it was right in my face and i didn't notice
12:03 PM bss36504: Emil: Exactly
12:03 PM bss36504: Both are useful, and not mutually exclusive
12:03 PM bss36504: Im just usually too lazy to write the non-blocking kind
12:04 PM bss36504: :P
12:04 PM Emil: With the twi
12:04 PM polprog: non-blocing? in what context?
12:04 PM antto: like.. i'm in bed and i am thinking "damn it, it got soo late imma fail to get sleep and wake up for work... what's the time even" and i look at the brightly lit 7segment green clock which shows something like 03:68 or something and i go "yeah it's sooo late"
12:04 PM Emil: nonblocking comes for free
12:04 PM bss36504: polprog: communication
12:04 PM antto: 03:68
12:04 PM Emil: Now the question is what kind of api should I have
12:04 PM polprog: ok, what's the difference
12:05 PM Emil: polprog: between nonblocking and blocking?
12:05 PM polprog: yeah
12:05 PM Emil: the naming's not clear?
12:05 PM bss36504: blocking means you call the function and it waits to complete the transaction
12:05 PM polprog: ah this
12:06 PM polprog: duh
12:06 PM polprog: :P
12:06 PM polprog: why was i thinking about blocking some bus??
12:06 PM bss36504: non-blocking usually means you kick off the transaction and wait for interrupt
12:06 PM polprog: i dont see any way to do it on avr if not via peripherals then
12:07 PM _enhering_: do what?
12:07 PM bss36504: Yeah there's not a good way to do non-blocking bit banged on avr
12:07 PM bss36504: also just doenst really make sense
12:08 PM bss36504: cause you need to use clock cycles to operate the IOs, so you don't gain anything by trying to make it non-blocking
12:08 PM Emil: But the api
12:08 PM Emil: hmm
12:09 PM bss36504: what about it?
12:09 PM Emil: So I'm thinking about doing it in a pretty convoluted way
12:09 PM Emil: like
12:09 PM bss36504: oh?
12:09 PM Emil: well
12:09 PM Emil: The idea is that you pass a unsigned char buf and a length
12:09 PM Emil: and the first member is the address and R/W flag
12:09 PM polprog: i will have to write UART handling code soon
12:09 PM polprog: for avrs
12:09 PM bss36504: I already dont like it :P
12:10 PM Emil: bss36504: but it's efffiiciiiient :D
12:10 PM Emil: bss36504: and imho not really convoluted, either
12:10 PM bss36504: not really...
12:10 PM bss36504: You don't want to impose requirements on how you load a flat data array
12:10 PM bss36504: use a friggin struct
12:10 PM polprog: im thinking about just implementing a buffer and an interrupt copying the bytes to UDRE
12:10 PM bss36504: or, just separate out the arguments.
12:10 PM Emil: bss36504: lol structs are for plebs
12:10 PM Emil: :D
12:10 PM Emil: lol multiple arguments are for plebs :D
12:10 PM bss36504: Youre a pleb if you don't use structs
12:10 PM Emil: Messages are god tier
12:10 PM Emil: scrub get on with the times
12:11 PM Emil: :D
12:11 PM bss36504: Riiiight I want to have to construct some convoluted message just to use an API, when function arguments and struct members are "self documenting"
12:11 PM Emil: polprog: https://emil.fi/jako/koodi/seriallib.c has some wrappers you might find interesting
12:11 PM bss36504: how do i make an eye roll emoji lol
12:13 PM polprog: Emil: that ISR looks like what i imagined i would do, but i dont really understand serial_read...
12:14 PM Emil: USART is super easy imho
12:14 PM Emil: If only it had a hardware buffer
12:15 PM Emil: s/buffer/dma
12:15 PM polprog: if only avrs had DMA...
12:15 PM polprog: tsk tsk pics have
12:15 PM Emil: Don't fall!
12:15 PM Emil: Keep away!
12:15 PM Emil: They are devil's machines!
12:15 PM polprog: i guess you could do dma with an external paralell ram chip and some paralell input chip
12:15 PM bss36504: DMA is cool
12:16 PM Emil: DMA is <3
12:16 PM Emil: especially if the throughput is deterministic
12:16 PM polprog: so for example a classic paralell ram and a dac that takes paralell input, and you load the ram with data, then just control the ram and dac.
12:17 PM bss36504: polprog: DMA to external memory is only really useful if you also have an external memory peripheral
12:17 PM bss36504: like the EBI on the xmegas
12:17 PM antto: xmegas \o/
12:18 PM Emil: bss36504: memory-ebi
12:18 PM bss36504: yeah
12:18 PM antto: enhas0riz3d bus int3rfaz3
12:18 PM Emil: it was a shitty reference to fairy taile
12:18 PM Emil: s
12:18 PM Emil: Fairy Tail
12:19 PM bss36504: lol
12:19 PM bss36504: missed it sorry
12:19 PM Emil: Have you watched it?
12:19 PM Emil: It's okay
12:19 PM bss36504: no
12:19 PM Emil: The sunken cost fallacy has gotten me (and I don't really have anything better to watch :D)
12:20 PM xentrac: under some circumstances you could just use an external SRAM controlled with a register, the way people used to use EPROMs as programmable logic (famously the Apple ][ disk controller)
12:20 PM bss36504: xentrac: very true
12:21 PM xentrac: what's a reasonable, fast, cheap SRAM chip?
12:21 PM Emil: Hmm
12:21 PM antto: a stack of 74hc shift registers
12:21 PM * antto runs
12:21 PM Emil: I wonder if I could use a DDR4 chip with avr
12:22 PM xentrac: heh
12:22 PM xentrac: I will be very impressed if you manage that
12:22 PM antto: i wonder what RAM that guy used who ran linux on an attiny
12:22 PM bss36504: Emil: Anything is possible if you try hard enough
12:22 PM antto: the greek guy
12:22 PM bss36504: though I'm not sure you could hit the refresh window
12:26 PM Emil: Hmm
12:26 PM Emil: so perhaps external circuitry to do the refresh
12:26 PM bss36504: I
12:26 PM bss36504: I'm thinking it;s not possible
12:26 PM bss36504: we're talking like a handful of ns refresh period
12:27 PM Emil: shh, no tears
12:27 PM Emil: I'm sure some fpga could handle it
12:27 PM Emil: or 10 avrs
12:27 PM bss36504: Yeah but you asked about AVRs lol
12:27 PM Emil: with clocks phase shifted
12:27 PM bss36504: haha
12:27 PM Emil: hehe
12:28 PM learath: Emil: that sounds like a good idea. (10 avrs)
12:28 PM bss36504: jebus
12:28 PM Emil: That sounds like a pretty nice exercise for the brave
12:28 PM learath: stupid?
12:28 PM Emil: "Implement a DDR4 controller using AVRs and some discrete components"
12:29 PM Emil: At that point you are pretty much replacing logic blocks with AVRs :D
12:29 PM learath: how low can you clock ddr4?
12:29 PM bss36504: learath: not very. It's DRAM it needs to be refreshed
12:30 PM Emil: SDRAM*
12:30 PM bss36504: Makes no difference
12:30 PM Emil: True
12:30 PM bss36504: It needs to be refreshed. The S in SDRAM just means it's synchronous
12:30 PM xentrac: SDRAM is a kind of DRAM
12:30 PM Emil: I wish it stood for static instead of synchronous
12:30 PM xentrac: there is something called "pseudo-SRAM", which is DRAM with internal refresh circuitry
12:30 PM bss36504: Thats what SRAM is
12:31 PM bss36504: Yes that is a thing
12:31 PM bss36504: there is all kinds of interesting memory tech out there
12:31 PM xentrac: SRAM is not DRAM with internal refresh circuitry :)
12:31 PM bss36504: I didn't say that
12:31 PM xentrac: I wasn't sure
12:31 PM xentrac: IRC is confusing sometimes
12:31 PM xentrac: So I wanted to clarify
12:31 PM bss36504: The S in SRAM is "static"
12:31 PM bss36504: That was what I was saying
12:32 PM xentrac: (Damn, I need to drink less caffeine)
12:32 PM xentrac: agreed :)
12:32 PM bss36504: But you trade density and power use for speed with DRAM vs SRAM
12:32 PM bss36504: Which is why PSRAM (the pseudo SRAM/DRAM stuff) is sort of niche anyway
12:33 PM bss36504: You have a bunch of space overhead in the periphery logic that isn't really made up for by the ultra small memory cells.
12:33 PM bss36504: And, you still aren't gaining any speed or power reduction
12:33 PM xentrac: It isn't?
12:34 PM bss36504: No why would it? DRAM's main speed limiting factor is that it takes "a long time" to refresh or access
12:34 PM xentrac: I sort of figured that nobody was using SRAM in new designs except where they need very high speed, instead using PSRAM, because of the much higher density
12:34 PM xentrac: I mean, the space overhead of the peripheral logic isn't really made up for by the ultra-small memory cells?
12:34 PM bss36504: I'm a designer in an SRAM memory group, I can assure you we have plenty of customers :P
12:35 PM xentrac: Awesome :)
12:35 PM bss36504: Yeah, not really. You get some area savings by using the DRAM cells but it's still not that great
12:35 PM xentrac: Is that because it needs to be super fast and/or super low power?
12:35 PM xentrac: (The number of customers, I mean)
12:35 PM bss36504: Yeah, we design IP blocks for insertion into ASICs mostly
12:36 PM bss36504: so CPUs, GPUs, etc.
12:36 PM xentrac: Aha
12:36 PM xentrac: There was a time when it made sense to use SRAM just because it was simpler to interface with
12:36 PM bss36504: SRAM is used for all the cache stuff in a processor
12:36 PM xentrac: Of course
12:36 PM bss36504: Yeah and to some extent if you just want a simple memory to play with in an embedded sense, an SRAM is probably easier than a [S]DRAM
12:37 PM xentrac: I figured that in those cases you'd usually use PSRAM nowadays?
12:37 PM bss36504: Well, maybe that would be the case.
12:37 PM bss36504: Depends on the application
12:38 PM bss36504: My impression is that on computer "RAM DIMMs" you'd still want density, since the "packaging" is basically the same size as the memory die. So any savings you can make in silicon relate to real life space savings (and therefore density increases) at the board level
12:40 PM xentrac: in computer RAM DIMMs I think you can amortize the refresh logic over a humongous amount of memory, no?
12:41 PM bss36504: Also true. Makes more sense to stick it in the CPU/memory controller just because there is so much memory interfaced to it
02:35 PM polprog: bss36504: im only theoretizing, im no engineer :P
02:35 PM polprog: but technically, i work as one
02:35 PM Tom_itx: imposter!!
02:38 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
02:55 PM Emil: https://youtu.be/NsCyMibI73A?t=1m52s
03:29 PM Jartza: https://www.youtube.com/c/JariTulilahti/live
04:21 PM cehteh: so who was the nazi there?
04:26 PM Jartza: no idea
04:26 PM Jartza: but pretty boring
04:27 PM Jartza: not very original, not very funny and kills the fun from all
04:59 PM Jartza: well. at least now it's something different
05:38 PM Lambda_Aurigae: someone draw a swastika on your opv there Jartza ?
05:39 PM Lambda_Aurigae: maybe they were from India and wishing you well being.
05:41 PM Jartza: haha
05:41 PM Jartza: from .dk
05:41 PM Jartza: :P
05:42 PM Jartza: too bad I'm in control
05:43 PM Lambda_Aurigae: the swastika is far far older, by several thousand years, than the nazi party that subverted it.
05:43 PM Jartza: sure
05:43 PM Jartza: but still I rather not stream swastika live
05:46 PM Emil: That's unnecessary PC
05:49 PM Jartza: Lambda_Aurigae: finnish air force also used swastika :)
05:50 PM Jartza: http://i.imgur.com/UX652Kg.jpg
05:51 PM Lambda_Aurigae: rather a PC than a MAC
06:14 PM JanC is now known as Guest1049
06:14 PM JanC_ is now known as JanC
06:58 PM Jartza: https://www.youtube.com/c/JariTulilahti/live
06:59 PM Jartza: now THIS is useful ;)
06:59 PM The_Coolest: Hmmm. I wasn't aware Atmel was bought out :( Shame. Just got an email from Microchip about personal info transfer, heh.
07:00 PM The_Coolest: what the heck am I looking at Jartza?
07:01 PM The_Coolest: You're testing on the wrong IRC channel
07:01 PM The_Coolest: :P
07:01 PM Jartza: The_Coolest: it's not irc. it's chat :D
07:02 PM The_Coolest: oh
07:02 PM Jartza: you need to open the web page in description to say something
07:02 PM Jartza: and it's running on ESP8266 and VGA is drawn by octapentaveega :D
07:02 PM Jartza: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxTVdIM05jLUl5Vlk/view?usp=sharing
07:02 PM Jartza: that's the hardware running the show :)
07:02 PM The_Coolest: nice. haven't been keeping tabs on things, don't tknow what octawhatevervga is
07:03 PM Jartza: https://github.com/rakettitiede/octapentaveega'
07:03 PM The_Coolest: That looks neat.
07:03 PM The_Coolest: I don't have time to mess with electronics anymore
07:03 PM Jartza: oops, without the '
07:03 PM Jartza: https://github.com/rakettitiede/octapentaveega
07:04 PM The_Coolest: oh its a library?
07:04 PM Jartza: well. it's a firmware for attiny85
07:04 PM The_Coolest: oh.
07:04 PM The_Coolest: hmmm
07:04 PM Jartza: you can use it with any microcontroller that has uart output
07:05 PM Jartza: it makes attiny85 a vga controller :)
07:05 PM Jartza: http://212.237.59.155/say
07:05 PM The_Coolest: I ask because the ESP has much more RAM, you could possibly get a higher resolutions (or char count) out of it
07:05 PM Jartza: you can use that page to send messages
07:05 PM The_Coolest: resolution*
07:06 PM Jartza: well. I already made octapentaveega, and ESP is much harder to run at "full throttle" because wifi takes time
07:06 PM Jartza: VGA is VERY timing sensitive
07:06 PM Jartza: usually the wifi events happen when you don't want them to
07:06 PM The_Coolest: heh cool
07:07 PM The_Coolest: Well use two ESPs then :]
07:07 PM Jartza: ESP8266 is good for many things, but it's hard to generate VGA out of it
07:07 PM The_Coolest: ah
07:07 PM The_Coolest: Then an ATmega1284 :D
07:07 PM The_Coolest: tho it's pricey
07:07 PM The_Coolest: and huge
07:07 PM Jartza: hah
07:08 PM Jartza: I've been planning to make new VGA from cortex m
07:08 PM Jartza: something... cortex m0+ maybe
07:08 PM The_Coolest: yeah
07:08 PM Jartza: anyhow. this is just one test of my many
07:09 PM Jartza: streak of useless live events with microcontrollers, haha
07:09 PM The_Coolest: http://i.imgur.com/v9uI6Ny.jpg http://i.imgur.com/y9TDv7j.jpg << These are my latest AVR creations
07:10 PM Jartza: cool
07:10 PM Jartza: my hobby projects are mostly just for my entertainment
07:10 PM The_Coolest: same
07:10 PM Jartza: at work I get enough "real" electronics
07:10 PM Jartza: current assignment is again at Suunto
07:10 PM The_Coolest: I made a couple of boards for a DAC with a headphone amp
07:10 PM The_Coolest: and never put them together
07:11 PM The_Coolest: ah. well I'm just a programmer, so no electronics for me.
07:11 PM Jartza: I am too
07:11 PM The_Coolest: Latest foray was dissassembling a new LCD TV
07:11 PM The_Coolest: Coz it arrived with a shattered panel
07:11 PM Jartza: but it involves electronics too, as I'm embedded programmer :)
07:11 PM The_Coolest: Cool
07:12 PM The_Coolest: I like embedded stuff
07:12 PM Jartza: http://www.suunto.com/en-GB/Sports-Watch-Collections/Suunto-Spartan-Collection
07:12 PM The_Coolest: http://imgur.com/a/VgFwt << TV
07:12 PM Jartza: I worked for the 1st generation of those spartan sport watches
07:12 PM Jartza: and now I got back to Suunto to work with coming new models
07:12 PM The_Coolest: Neat
07:13 PM Jartza: anyhow. gotta hit the bed now :)
07:13 PM The_Coolest: Do you get to keep a few to yourself? ;p
07:13 PM The_Coolest: same.
07:13 PM Jartza: I have 4 spartans currently on my desk :P
07:14 PM The_Coolest: :D
07:14 PM Jartza: and several dev versions of those :)
07:14 PM Casper: does anyone have a good page for NTC and formula that work well for avr?
07:15 PM The_Coolest: ummmm.
07:15 PM The_Coolest: isn't an NTC formula pretty bog standard?
07:15 PM Jartza: thermistor?
07:16 PM Jartza: check from Marlin firmware
07:16 PM Jartza: 3D printer firmware :)
07:16 PM Jartza: there's a lot of different thermistors and tables for them
07:16 PM Jartza: https://github.com/MarlinFirmware/Marlin
07:16 PM Casper: The_Coolest: there is a few formula, some for more precision, some for aproximation...
07:16 PM Casper: precision require float and log and 1/x
07:17 PM The_Coolest: ah
07:17 PM Jartza: temperature.* and thermistor*.* files
07:17 PM Casper: aproximation can be done in a few ways, like LUT and extrapolation
07:17 PM The_Coolest: ok. I thought I had something, but i can't find it right now
07:17 PM Casper: can use LUT
07:17 PM The_Coolest: anyway bedtime
07:17 PM Jartza: same here
07:18 PM Casper: or can use a circuit that linearise somewhat the NTC, but so far I couln't find a real formula beside a "it become this kind of formula"...
07:18 PM Jartza: wake-up in 5 hours
07:18 PM Casper: will look at marlin
07:18 PM The_Coolest: 5:45 here :p
07:18 PM Casper: 19:48 here
07:19 PM The_Coolest: I meant how long I have left to sleep
07:19 PM Jartza: 2:48 here, wake-up at 7:45
07:19 PM Jartza: so. g'night
11:14 PM dan3wik is now known as dan2wik
11:59 PM day is now known as daey