#avr Logs
Jul 06 2017
#avr Calendar
12:15 AM day_ is now known as daey
12:27 AM abc123: Hi i have a doubt while connecting usbasp to system it is not showing in ports (Seeing in device manager) but showing as libusbk USB devices ......so how to select com port in this case
12:34 AM gjm: USBasp isn't serial device.
12:35 AM gjm: You need to select programmer.
12:44 AM abc123: But when i add target it is showing only serial ports(ATMEL STUDIO 7) ....So how to choose this device?
12:49 AM Casper: it should have an option for that one
12:49 AM gjm: http://mysinski.wieik.pk.edu.pl/MPUandMCU/Installing%20USBasp%20in%20Atmel%20Studio%20ver%207.pdf
12:49 AM Casper: select the proper programmer
01:29 AM abc123: this is same for atmega 8 also????___-p m32 -c usbasp -P usb -U flash:w:"$(ProjectDir)Debug\$(TargetName).hex".i
01:30 AM gjm: pajeet
02:10 AM Emil: abc123: you have to install the driver
02:10 AM Emil: windows doesnt autosupport it
02:11 AM Emil: its linked on the usbasp site
02:41 AM julius: hi
03:12 AM ScrumpyJ1ck is now known as ScrumpyJack
04:05 AM aczid_ is now known as aczid
04:59 AM Emil: Morning
06:17 AM abc123: hi
06:18 AM abc123: Can anyone suggest a programmer for flashing the new Attiny841 chip ?
06:18 AM LeoNerd: That'll take regular ISP, so... anything basically
06:18 AM LeoNerd: Also when you say "the new" - tiny841 has been around a couple of years at least now
06:19 AM LeoNerd: I've been using them a while now
06:19 AM abc123: Usual USBASP which is working for other chips is not working with this Attiny841
06:19 AM LeoNerd: Hmm.. double-check connections? If not everything is in place correctly, you basically get nothing. Hard to tell what's wrong until it works
06:20 AM LeoNerd: Also, sure it's a new blank one with default fuses? No weird ones that'd require HVSP?
06:20 AM abc123: Its is a brand new one, fuse bits are not modified
06:21 AM LeoNerd: Hmm.. :/ well, that *ought* to work. I've done that many times.. possibly dozens by now
06:21 AM abc123: Which programmer you are using to program the same chip
06:21 AM LeoNerd: Is it possible you have a broken chip? Any others you can swap yo?
06:22 AM LeoNerd: *to
06:22 AM abc123: I have replaced the chip, but of no use
06:22 AM LeoNerd: I use either a USBASP v2, or Pololu AVR v1 programmer,
06:22 AM LeoNerd: both cope fine
06:23 AM abc123: Can I know the Flash loader your using ?
06:23 AM LeoNerd: avrdude
06:23 AM abc123: K will try
06:27 AM abc123: error: programm enable: target doesn't answer. 1 avrdude.exe: initialization failed, rc=-1 ...am getting this error in Atmel studio 7 what may be the reason??
06:31 AM LeoNerd: "target doesn't answer" is the fairly generic response of not seeing the right handshake come back on MISO
06:31 AM LeoNerd: Could be all sorts of reasons for that, but it's hard to tell which
06:32 AM LeoNerd: If any of the lines aren't connected, that causes it. If the chip isn't powered, that causes it. Or the chip has ISP disabled by any of a few fuses,... that too
06:47 AM abc123: ohh ok ......is there any procedure in ATMEL STUDIO 7 to set communication ?
06:54 AM LeoNerd: No idea.. I don't use it myself. Someone else might know?
06:55 AM LeoNerd: Could be worth just running avrdude itself for a test to see if that can talk to chip
07:01 AM LeoNerd: Oh unrelatedly: I worked out why I couldn't manage to find any SPI/I²C OLEDs larger than 128x64... most of them at e.g. 128 square or bigger tend to be TFT
07:18 AM abc123: can you send me the link to download avrdude for windows 10
07:18 AM LeoNerd: Er... you appear already to have it
07:18 AM LeoNerd: Isn't Atmel Studio already running it?
07:20 AM abc123: yes ....but how do i link that avrdude
07:20 AM Lambda_Aurigae: google.com
07:20 AM Lambda_Aurigae: atmel studio has its own programmer software.
07:21 AM Lambda_Aurigae: ok
07:21 AM Lambda_Aurigae: avr studio had its own
07:21 AM abc123: ok .......fyn
07:21 AM Lambda_Aurigae: it seems atmel studio uses avrdude
07:21 AM abc123: ohh ok ok...
07:21 AM Lambda_Aurigae: it's called,,,reading..
07:21 AM Lambda_Aurigae: hehe
07:22 AM abc123: <Lambda_Aurigae> ha ha
07:23 AM Lambda_Aurigae: so, make sure you have mosi to mosi, miso to miso, sck to sck, reset connected, gnd connected, the chip powered.
07:23 AM Lambda_Aurigae: few of us actually use atmel studio around here.
07:23 AM Lambda_Aurigae: me being one of those who don't because it won't run in wine...more like crawls and cracks its head on the coffee table.
07:25 AM abc123: Actually i checked with ATMEGA328p with the same USBASP it has detected and working ......but it is showing error in ATTINY841!!Thats my problem
07:26 AM Lambda_Aurigae: triple-double check the connections
07:26 AM Lambda_Aurigae: then turn the programming speed waaaay down.
07:27 AM abc123: Ok wil check!! again
07:28 AM Lambda_Aurigae: what speed is the atmega328p running?
07:30 AM abc123: No idea on that just read and write i have tried
07:30 AM Lambda_Aurigae: does your usbasp have a jumper j3?
07:31 AM abc123: No i doesnt have
07:31 AM abc123: *it
07:31 AM Lambda_Aurigae: try adding -B 4 to the avrdude command line...which you can't because you are using atmel studio
07:32 AM abc123: Can anyone say how to do External tool setting in ATMEL STUDIO 7?
07:32 AM Lambda_Aurigae: you might need to update the firmware on the usbasp too in order to support that.
07:32 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I just use a homemade stk200 clone that I made 17 years ago.
07:32 AM Lambda_Aurigae: it just works.
07:33 AM abc123: -B 4 shall i add in arguments??
07:33 AM Lambda_Aurigae: if you can, yes.
07:33 AM Lambda_Aurigae: that slows the programming speed waaaay down.
07:34 AM Lambda_Aurigae: if it is a speed issue that should help...at least until you can change the default clock speed from 8MHz/8 to something faster.
07:36 AM abc123: its working but one more error is there !! "Expected signature for ATmega32 is 1E 95 02"....
07:38 AM daey: which signature does it report?
07:38 AM Lambda_Aurigae: atmega32 is NOT the same as atmega328p
07:38 AM Lambda_Aurigae: so
07:38 AM daey: check if that sig exists. maybe you are using the wrong processor
07:38 AM Lambda_Aurigae: you have selected the wrong chip.
07:38 AM daey: :P
07:39 AM abc123: ya ya i am using ATTINY841 chip!!
07:39 AM Lambda_Aurigae: from what you posted, atmel studio thinks you have selected the atmega32
07:39 AM abc123: but i dont know that command line....
07:40 AM Lambda_Aurigae: in your project
07:40 AM Lambda_Aurigae: the project you are building in atmel studio.
07:40 AM Lambda_Aurigae: or,,,somewhere in the programmer setup
07:40 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I don't know where because I don't use it.
07:40 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I run avrdude straight from linux command line.
07:40 AM daey: simply create a new project, it will ask in the beginnin during the creation which uC you want to use
07:40 AM Lambda_Aurigae: you have to build for that chip too...
07:41 AM Lambda_Aurigae: if you build a project for the wrong chip it most likely won't work.
07:41 AM Lambda_Aurigae: registers are different, memory is different
07:41 AM daey: not only that...the registers will most likely be named differently, so your code might not even compile
07:41 AM Lambda_Aurigae: in some cases, processor commands are different...atmega has more commands than attiny
07:42 AM Lambda_Aurigae: in the avrdude command line there is a -p entry
07:42 AM Lambda_Aurigae: that must match the processor you are using.
07:42 AM abc123: i have mentioned ATMEGA32 in arguments only to my knowledge ........ "-F -B 4 -p m32 -c usbasp -P usb -U flash:w:"$(ProjectDir)Debug\$(Target Name).hex":i" but i want to change it to ATTINY841 ....
07:42 AM Lambda_Aurigae: m32 is atmega32
07:42 AM Lambda_Aurigae: -p m32
07:43 AM Lambda_Aurigae: is atmega32 NOT attiny841
07:43 AM Lambda_Aurigae: should be t841 as I recall
07:43 AM abc123: so i need to change that one to ATTINY841......Do u know the command
07:43 AM Lambda_Aurigae: you will have to ask this u person somewhere else as they are not here.
07:44 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but, from that, I'm guessing you built the project for the atmega32.
07:45 AM Lambda_Aurigae: so you need to change the target processor in atmel studio and rebuild the project...that should recreate the avrdude command line I would think.
07:45 AM daey: yes. just make a new porject.
07:45 AM daey: you dont have to touch arguments
07:46 AM Lambda_Aurigae: daey, mostly true...in this case it's a new chip running at 1MHz so the -B 4 is needed to slow programming down.
07:47 AM Lambda_Aurigae: abc123, if you just want to change to the correct processor in that command line, replace "m32" wth "t841"....the "t841" is a guess though...I don't currently have avr toolchain on this computer and my programming computer is shut down.
07:58 AM abc123: ya i gave it as t841......"error: programm enable: target doesn't answer. 1 avrdude.exe: initialization failed, rc=-1 avrdude.exe: AVR device initialized and ready to accept instructions avrdude.exe: Device signature = 0x6c6675 avrdude.exe: Expected signature for ATtiny861 is 1E 93 0D
08:00 AM abc123: <Lambda_Aurigae>ATTINY841 is not shown in USBASP valid parts
08:02 AM LeoNerd: Probably because it's newer than when that documentation was written
08:02 AM LeoNerd: Honestly, I've done this loads of times. It can work just fine
08:03 AM LeoNerd: Your device signature sounds very strange there - that almost looks like text
08:03 AM LeoNerd: 6c 66 75 are ASCII lowercase text
08:03 AM LeoNerd: lfu
08:03 AM LeoNerd: That looks vaguely like you're talking to a serial port instead and getting some odd results
08:04 AM LeoNerd: Are you quite sure you put -c usbasp in the commandline?
08:08 AM abc123: -c usbasp ....yes i have given like that
08:09 AM mrrobot_: i would like to use LUFA lib(that only one i found), for implementing USB on xmega 128AU4 (is supported). I dont know hot to start, or even how to use it,(can i use Atmel studio).
08:09 AM abc123: -c does that mean com port ??
08:15 AM LeoNerd: No, -c is the programmer type
08:15 AM LeoNerd: ((avrdude annoys me sometimes, -c sets the programmer and -p sets the chip. Wha???))
08:17 AM abc123: <LeoNerd> am planning to use Arduino board as ISP to program my ATTINY841? what do u say ....will that work?
08:18 AM LeoNerd: Probably
08:18 AM LeoNerd: I mean, I've no reason to suggest it won't, other than your apparent lack of success so far
08:19 AM abc123: ok ok......let me try that one also....
08:20 AM abc123: But i think ATTINY841 should have worked well in ATMEL STUDIO 7 but i cant find why it is not working!!!
08:21 AM LeoNerd: Did you try a plain avrdude without Atmel Studio being in the way?
08:21 AM abc123: <LeoNerd> no i havent !
08:22 AM LeoNerd: Well try it :)
08:22 AM abc123: ok let me check....can u suggest me the version
08:23 AM LeoNerd: ??
08:23 AM LeoNerd: You have it there
08:23 AM LeoNerd: atmel studio ran it
08:23 AM LeoNerd: It was even in the error message
08:24 AM LeoNerd: find the version *it* ran and run it yourself
08:49 AM Lambda_Aurigae: abc123, then add it.
08:49 AM Lambda_Aurigae: usbasp doesn't care about what chip so long as it is ISP capable.
08:49 AM Lambda_Aurigae: avrdude you have might not support it though.
08:50 AM Lambda_Aurigae: mrrobot_, that is the recommended method....read the documentation.
08:50 AM gjm: pajeet
08:50 AM LeoNerd: It's clear that his avrdude *does* support the chip, because it has an idea what signature it was expecting
08:50 AM LeoNerd: It got totally weird numbers
08:50 AM LeoNerd: Honestly, I am willing to bet money this is a silly thing like the wrong -c or -P parameter
08:50 AM Lambda_Aurigae: well, you all have fun.
08:50 AM LeoNerd: Or having something silly plugged in a serial port
08:51 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I'm tech-detoxing for the next 3 days.
08:51 AM Lambda_Aurigae: so, no computers, no phones, no microcontrollers...even leaving my watch at home.
08:51 AM Lambda_Aurigae: laters.
09:31 AM rue_house: oo even the microcontrollers
09:31 AM rue_house: but, didn't say hardware finite state machines
11:29 AM Chillum is now known as HighInBC
11:40 AM Emil: LeoNerd: well
11:40 AM Emil: at least from repos
11:40 AM Emil: avrdude doesn't know 841
11:40 AM Emil: Upstream probably does know it
11:41 AM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: don't leave us :/
11:43 AM LeoNerd: Emil: Maybe not, but in that case a different error message would result
11:44 AM LeoNerd: Also, I don't know what the rumour was going around the other day about a world shortage in 328PBs; I see 600 in stock at Farnell UK right now; about to order 10 myself.
11:45 AM Emil: Hm
11:45 AM Emil: What rumour of world shortage
11:45 AM Emil: but yeah Digikey has 0 of them
11:45 AM Emil: but Mouser and Farnell have plenty
11:45 AM LeoNerd: 0 at Mouser UK
11:45 AM Emil: waaait
11:45 AM Emil: Dunno what you are talking about
11:45 AM Emil: plenty
11:45 AM Emil: at mouser.fi
11:46 AM LeoNerd: Ah.. wait. Mouser have none of the QFP package, but they do have many thousand QFN
11:46 AM LeoNerd: I wonder if I should switch to using QFNs
11:46 AM Emil: You should
11:46 AM Emil: And dunno what you mean
11:46 AM LeoNerd: https://www.tindie.com/products/leonerd/atmega328pb-development-board/ might be neater with a QFN
11:46 AM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-07-06_19-16-05_gbMpRlcF.png
11:46 AM Emil: I think 13k is plenty of TQFP
11:46 AM LeoNerd: "on order"
11:47 AM LeoNerd: That means 0 in stock, but don't worry we've ordered more
11:47 AM Emil: Oh shit
11:47 AM Emil: true
11:47 AM LeoNerd: "Factory lead time: 26 weeks"
11:47 AM LeoNerd: That's like.. half a year
11:47 AM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-07-06_19-17-06_QbSSpExe.png
11:47 AM Emil: Wtf :D
11:47 AM LeoNerd: That's January 2018
11:47 AM Emil: Ridiculouuuus
11:48 AM * LeoNerd stockpiles them from Farnell, opens a black market
11:48 AM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-07-06_19-17-57_VhW42dz9.png
11:48 AM Emil: :D
11:48 AM LeoNerd: "
11:48 AM LeoNerd: Manufacturer:
11:48 AM LeoNerd: MICROCHIP "
11:48 AM LeoNerd: *sad tear*
11:48 AM Emil: ikr T.T
11:49 AM LeoNerd: Also, fuck you copypasta from firefox. If I *wanted* a linefeed I would bloody well have typed one
11:49 AM Emil: Someone is either buying a fuckton of avrs
11:49 AM Emil: or
11:49 AM Emil: there was some manufacturing fuckup
11:49 AM Emil: Hmm
11:49 AM cehteh: thats what you get for designing with this newfangled stuff :D
11:50 AM Emil: I should buy moar of those QFNs before that 1004 stock runs dry
11:50 AM LeoNerd: I'd have used a valve but it takes a lot to implement my design
11:50 AM LeoNerd: I don't think the floor can cope with the weight
11:50 AM cehteh: with a 8051 this wont happen
11:50 AM Emil: cehteh: it's not newfangled
11:50 AM Emil: it's microshit
11:50 AM Emil: trust me
11:50 AM Emil: LeoNerd: wtf
11:50 AM Emil: no crystal on that board?
11:51 AM Emil: Oh underneath
11:51 AM LeoNerd: Sure. It's right there on top
11:51 AM LeoNerd: Next to the "D2 D3" pins
11:51 AM Emil: Ah
11:51 AM LeoNerd: Tiiiiny little Murata CSTCS resonator
11:51 AM LeoNerd: Those things are tiny. I was going to say "grain of rice", but sometime I need to take a photo showing how much smaller they are compared to rice
11:52 AM LeoNerd: Also my photos suck. I couldn't manage to get the lens to focus properly on this :(
11:52 AM LeoNerd: shall have to try again sometime
11:52 AM Emil: >resonator
11:52 AM Emil: wtf
11:52 AM LeoNerd: smaller, cheaper...
11:52 AM LeoNerd: Most applications don't need the higher precision of an actual crystal
11:53 AM xentrac: not a crystal
11:53 AM Emil: That's a pretty kawaii board
11:53 AM LeoNerd: It could be yours for the mere price of $22 :)
11:54 AM Emil: LeoNerd: lol
11:54 AM LeoNerd: Buy the board, it comes with a free ATmega328PB, already soldered on. *grin* You've seen how hard they are to buy these days
11:55 AM Emil: How do you handle double sided assembly btw?
11:55 AM Emil: Hot air?
11:55 AM LeoNerd: Yeah
11:55 AM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/boards.jpg
11:55 AM LeoNerd: Hotair gun and hold the board in the air for the second side. It works well enough
11:55 AM Emil: I don't need your help with making things ;)
11:56 AM Emil: Though assembled things are niiiice
11:56 AM Emil: I'm yet to order parts for like 5 projects
11:56 AM Emil: That I have the pcbs for already :D
11:56 AM LeoNerd: Ah, maybe you could help *me* then. Do you use stencil/paste/hotair?
11:56 AM Emil: Paste and oven/hotair
11:56 AM Emil: /manual
11:56 AM LeoNerd: Making those 328PB boards, I found I had lots of solder bridges on the TSSOP20 part on the bottom and the QFP32 on top
11:56 AM LeoNerd: I suspect the apatures in my stencil are too wide
11:56 AM Emil: Whatcha need help with?
11:57 AM LeoNerd: Working out what I've done wrong, and fixing it
11:57 AM LeoNerd: Do I just need smaller openings in the stencil, or is my technique wrong somehow?
11:57 AM Emil: Too much paste prolly
11:58 AM LeoNerd: Yes, that much is clear. But why? Should the stencil be smaller?
11:58 AM Emil: Could be
11:58 AM Emil: I mean
11:58 AM LeoNerd: I measured it - it's 3mil thick. but maybe the openings are too big
11:58 AM Emil: The actual paste you put always looks larger than it is
11:58 AM LeoNerd: I had some success by wiping off about half the paste after I'd used it
11:58 AM Emil: but much is not required
11:58 AM LeoNerd: that helped, but I still had *a* bridge
11:58 AM Emil: But it's also luck
11:59 AM Emil: I like to manually apply paste, it's quite relaxing
11:59 AM Emil: What uart chip was that?
11:59 AM Emil: Ah ch
12:01 PM daey: Emil: do you have a final image of the product?
12:01 PM Emil: daey: what product?
12:01 PM daey: 18:25 < Emil> https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/boards.jpg
12:01 PM Emil: That pile has a couple of projects on it
12:02 PM daey: :D
12:02 PM daey: did you finish any of them? :p
12:02 PM Emil: And I have not assembled but one of them
12:02 PM Emil: and it has a fucking short somewhere
12:02 PM daey: hopefully its not the binary clock :P
12:02 PM Emil: Hey any of you know if the vref has a minimum value?
12:03 PM Emil: daey: no, it's a wheelchair controller for this school quild project
12:03 PM Emil: But also the v1 interactive led driver has a fucking short somewhere
12:03 PM Emil: and blasting the board with like 10W does absolutely nothing
12:03 PM daey: ah ok. im just looking for something to build :/ it has to be 'semi complex' and 'useful'
12:04 PM Emil: Have you got an idea?
12:04 PM daey: nope
12:04 PM Emil: hmm
12:04 PM Emil: But you don't want to design a binary clock?
12:04 PM daey: to simple
12:04 PM Emil: Well, it has an esp, rtc, atmega, ...
12:05 PM LeoNerd: ESP *and* ATmega?
12:05 PM daey: that was my last project http://i.imgur.com/mRTEX6j.jpg
12:06 PM daey: LeoNerd: also rtc! D:
12:06 PM Emil: LeoNerd: yes ":D"
12:06 PM Emil: LeoNerd: because lol why not :D
12:06 PM LeoNerd: Right; RTC is understandable as neither ATmega nor ESP have one
12:06 PM Emil: daey: is that a keyboard?
12:06 PM daey: yes
12:06 PM Emil: daey: did you design it yoursel?
12:07 PM Emil: LeoNerd: I mean sure I could handle the leds with the esp
12:07 PM Emil: LeoNerd: but I also need to handle a rotary encoder with a button
12:07 PM daey: well. hardware wise i did the routing. and schematic wise the RGB controller leds
12:07 PM Emil: and it's just easier to separate them
12:08 PM Emil: daey: big board, where did you order it? I have been wanting to do my own diy keyboard
12:08 PM * LeoNerd nod
12:08 PM LeoNerd: My most recent stage equipment is a 2chip design. ATmega328 for most stuff, ATtiny841 to do DMX offload
12:08 PM Emil: LeoNerd: so the esp can flash and control the atmega and handles the wifi connection and serving of a webpage, talking to a server and such
12:09 PM daey: Emil: use this tool to find a cheap fab https://pcbshopper.com/
12:09 PM LeoNerd: Otherwise DMX and WS2812 at the same time is hard
12:09 PM daey: i used easyeda
12:09 PM Emil: LeoNerd: the atmega can then control the leds and input
12:09 PM Emil: and rtc
12:09 PM Emil: daey: how much did it cost?
12:09 PM daey: around 30eur for 5 iirc
12:09 PM Emil: wtf
12:09 PM Emil: that's dirt cheaaaap
12:09 PM Emil: OSHPark would litereally kill me :DD
12:10 PM daey: yeah
12:10 PM Emil: And seeeed/itead is not that much better
12:10 PM Emil: daey: do you have a pic of the finished thing?
12:11 PM daey: http://imgur.com/a/jlIBL
12:11 PM Emil: daey: pretty damn nice
12:11 PM Emil: I wish they sold those keyboard scissor switches somewhere cheaply
12:11 PM daey: i did not make the whole keyboard. its a Ducky mini YotH
12:11 PM Emil: I want a slim one
12:11 PM daey: i only replaced the pcb so to speak, because the original one sucked
12:11 PM Emil: lol
12:13 PM daey: my main issue is usually the case.
12:13 PM daey: take your binary clock. how are you going to 'present' it. building a good looking case is almost impossible at home
12:14 PM Emil: daey: laser cut
12:14 PM bss36504: daey: woodworking?
12:14 PM Emil: daey: out of 2/3mm plywood
12:14 PM xentrac: <Emil> OSHPark is cancer
12:14 PM Emil: I make them for my friends
12:14 PM Emil: xentrac: noooo
12:14 PM Emil: xentrac: OSHPark is absolutely kawaii
12:14 PM xentrac: <Emil> xentrac is cancer
12:15 PM xentrac: <Emil> cancer is kawaii
12:15 PM daey: Emil: i for myself use commercial products as a benchmark.
12:15 PM bss36504: xentrac:Why is oshpark cancer?
12:15 PM bss36504: xentrac: ^
12:15 PM Emil: bss36504: he's just teasing me
12:15 PM xentrac: it isn't, I was just kidding about Emil's tendency to say things are cancer
12:15 PM Emil: called it
12:15 PM bss36504: Oh sorry
12:15 PM bss36504: that one went over my head lol
12:15 PM Emil: xentrac: I only call things cancer if they are!
12:16 PM Emil: Not my fault the world has a fuckton of cancer innit :D
12:16 PM Emil: daey: but like I said
12:16 PM Emil: the case will be laser cut plywood
12:16 PM xentrac: Emil: have you thought about doing a capacitive keyboard with touchable (but nonmechanical, nonmoving) keys and piezoelectric touch feedback?
12:16 PM Emil: and my friends can paint them if they want
12:17 PM Emil: xentrac: no but I can already see that it would be pretty nice
12:17 PM Emil: but perhaps quite hard to implement
12:17 PM Emil: well, it depends on how much cost you are willing to tolerate
12:18 PM Emil: I should try to do one
12:18 PM Emil: It's not too hard
12:18 PM Emil: I have done capacitive sensing with an avr and a wire already
12:18 PM daey: the next thing is, i dont like building cases. and it takes alot of time :D
12:19 PM Emil: daey: find a laser cutter
12:19 PM Emil: libraries have them sometimes
12:19 PM Emil: and university things
12:19 PM Emil: absolutely awesome
12:20 PM daey: with a laser cutter you end up with a square box. what i need is a cnc mill.
12:20 PM bss36504: daey: PCB material? Solders together quite nicely, can be etched for graphics/text, robust, easy to work with
12:20 PM Emil: Only if you don't know what you are doing ;)
12:20 PM Emil: Yeah I should try pcb cases
12:21 PM Emil: I only fabs made edges like plated holes
12:21 PM bss36504: I wouldn't suggest buying them, of course, but just raw copper clad board isnt expensive
12:21 PM bss36504: plated edges would be very difficult methinks
12:21 PM Emil: I don't see how
12:21 PM daey: nah its not
12:21 PM daey: but costs a shit load :D
12:21 PM Emil: they are no different from large plated holes
12:21 PM bss36504: I suppose.
12:22 PM bss36504: or plated slots
12:22 PM daey: castellated via's
12:22 PM Emil: bss36504: hmm
12:22 PM Emil: plated slots
12:22 PM Emil: I wonder if oshpark can do those
12:22 PM bss36504: Doesnt OSHPark unofficially support them?
12:23 PM Emil: Castellated vias at least
12:23 PM Emil: https://i.stack.imgur.com/qyvAX.jpg
12:23 PM Emil: But I mean dat
12:23 PM Emil: <3
12:23 PM daey: pretty sure thats the same technique
12:24 PM daey: but those are gilded as well
12:24 PM Emil: http://image.made-in-china.com/45f3j00HEoaTeQPIDcN/PCB-with-Gold-Plating-and-Edge-Plating-Gold.jpg
12:24 PM bss36504: Emil: http://docs.oshpark.com/submitting-orders/cutouts-and-slots/
12:24 PM xentrac: daey: you can cut things that are far from square with a laser cutter
12:24 PM daey: xentrac: if i start with flat wood, i will end up with flat wood
12:25 PM daey: sure you can 'lego' complex parts together but.... i would rather 3d mill the surface properly :P
12:26 PM bss36504: You say that now, but CNC routing in 3D or even 2D is much more involved than laser cutting.
12:26 PM bss36504: (plywood)
12:29 PM bss36504: Although, thanks for this. now I'm back onto researching CNC machines. I re-discovered a great enclosure that I acquired somewhere a while back whilst cleaning this past weekend. It's about an 18" cube on the outside dimension and has a liftable front door on it.
12:29 PM bss36504: Seems perfect to house a CNC cutter
12:29 PM bss36504: plus I could run flood coolant and not make a huge mess
12:30 PM Emil: bss36504: yeah, no plated edges prolly
12:30 PM bss36504: I should acquire or build a nice ballscrew table. I have some really good linear actuators that I got somewhere for the Z stage
12:30 PM Emil: bss36504: and nice
12:30 PM Emil: I have been thinking about doing this portable and small pcb fabrication and assembly device
12:30 PM bss36504: Those cheap chinese spindle motors can be had up to like 6KW on ebay for not very much money. The VFDs suck but they might work well enough
12:31 PM bss36504: Emil: I had that dream too but discarded it when I realized I don't want to do the labor for the PCB fabrication. All the pre and post processing work is too much for me, so I'd rather just pay oshpark $5/sq inch to do it for me and do it well
12:31 PM Emil: bss36504: but imagine
12:32 PM Emil: bss36504: a device that would drill the pcb, apply paste and then place some small selection of components automatically
12:32 PM Emil: that would fit into a briefcase
12:32 PM Emil: with perhaps an integrated very small oven
12:32 PM bss36504: plus I just hate milled PCBs. No plated vias (at least not easily and without a chemical process), feature size is large (spacing and trace width) and there are defects that etching wouldnt have
12:32 PM bss36504: Now you're making a pipe dream
12:32 PM Emil: shhhh
12:32 PM daey: you wont even get the pcb material for the price a fab ships you the finished pcb :P
12:33 PM bss36504: Plus, if you make a pick and place, you still have to put the parts into magazines or rolls, program the fuckin thing and then hope that everything works both downstream and upstream.
12:33 PM Emil: bss36504: well, you don't get plated vias in any diy home pcb making
12:33 PM bss36504: Too many variables
12:33 PM Emil: bss36504: but that's what makes it so desirable
12:33 PM bss36504: exactly, no vias, which is why I send out for ALL my PCBs :)
12:33 PM daey: dont do what you cant do properly.
12:34 PM Emil: Wrong attitude?
12:34 PM bss36504: My time is worth too much to me to be dicking around with process optimization in my home PCB fab, when there are vendors that do it way better than I ever could for less money than I value my time at
12:34 PM daey: and if your solution ends up shitty AND costs more its even worse :P
12:34 PM Emil: diy chemical etching is super easy though
12:35 PM Emil: I should make my own
12:35 PM daey: its a pita
12:35 PM Emil: nah
12:35 PM Emil: It's super easy
12:35 PM daey: are you talking one sided boards?
12:36 PM Emil: double is only about getting the alingment right
12:36 PM daey: not silk screen, no solder stop, no vias, no nothing :D
12:36 PM Emil: daey: well
12:36 PM bss36504: EXACTLY
12:36 PM bss36504: and then you have chemicals to deal with
12:36 PM Emil: daey: uv based soldermask
12:36 PM Emil: it's not too hard
12:36 PM bss36504: I try to keep my stored liquids to a minimum, especially toxic ones
12:36 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/linkit/pcb
12:36 PM Emil: bss36504: "toxic"
12:36 PM bss36504: No it's not hard per se, but it's not as good as a professional PCB
12:36 PM Emil: it's only naoh and sodium persulfate
12:37 PM Emil: bss36504: obviously
12:37 PM daey: easyeda ships you a 30cmx10cm board for 3.87USD/piece if you order 5 :P
12:37 PM bss36504: yes, sure "toxic"
12:37 PM Emil: daey: I should try them
12:37 PM Emil: daey: what design rules do they have?
12:37 PM bss36504: But it kills an afternoon, and like I said about my time...
12:37 PM daey: not the best
12:37 PM Emil: bss36504: diy pcbs take 20 minutes to make
12:38 PM Emil: bss36504: 4min to activate the protective film, 60 second to strip it and 15 minutes to etch
12:38 PM daey: 2h for the vias
12:38 PM daey: 1h for the solder stop
12:38 PM Emil: daey: 2h?
12:38 PM Emil: h?
12:38 PM Emil: what is h?
12:38 PM xentrac: hours?
12:38 PM Emil: ??
12:38 PM Emil: ah drilling
12:38 PM Emil: yeah
12:38 PM Emil: that's why you do smd only :D
12:39 PM daey: lol?
12:39 PM Emil: And use 0 ohms as jumpers
12:39 PM daey: and how do you get on the 2nd side?
12:39 PM xentrac: you don't need a second side if you use enough jumpers :)
12:39 PM Emil: well, sure, for that (or go around the edge ;)
12:39 PM Emil: also what xentrac said
12:40 PM Emil: But yeah
12:40 PM Emil: diy pcbing
12:40 PM Emil: with etching
12:40 PM Emil: minimum 0.25mm clearance and trace width
12:41 PM Emil: you "can" do smaller but it might take more tries
12:41 PM Emil: 0.3mm works nicely everytime
12:41 PM Emil: Oh yeah tinning solution
12:41 PM Emil: that we have to buy to our lab, too
12:43 PM Emil: minimum vias depend on your drilling accuracy but 0.8mm/0.4mm is doable, though I prefer 2mm/1mm
12:43 PM xentrac: are those diameter and precision?
12:44 PM Emil: xentrac: you use kicad?
12:44 PM xentrac: no, I've never designed a circuit board
12:44 PM xentrac: :(
12:44 PM Emil: oh
12:44 PM Emil: Lol
12:44 PM Emil: anycase
12:44 PM Emil: 2mm is the via diameter
12:45 PM Emil: and 1mm is the drill size
12:45 PM xentrac: ah, I see
12:45 PM Emil: so 0.8/0.4mm leaves 0.2mm angular ring
12:45 PM xentrac: 2mm is the diameter of the copper circle around the via on the surface?
12:46 PM Emil: yes
12:46 PM Emil: 0.8mm is doable
12:46 PM Emil: But takes good eye
12:46 PM Emil: and a stable drill
12:46 PM Emil: (0.4mm drill that is)
12:48 PM xentrac: sodium persulfate sounds pretty innocent
12:48 PM xentrac: but neither NaOH nor Na₂S₂O₈ is photosensitive?
12:49 PM Emil: eh?
12:49 PM Emil: You first activate a pcb with already applied uv sensitive protective film under a uv light with a mask
12:49 PM Emil: then you remove that activated film with naoh
12:49 PM Emil: then you wash the board under water
12:50 PM Emil: "wash"
12:50 PM Emil: and then you put it etching into the sodium persulate water bath
12:52 PM xentrac: oh, you buy the PCB with the photosensitive film on it already? I didn't know htat
12:53 PM Emil: yeah
12:53 PM Emil: yeah if you don't then you need to apply the film yourself
12:53 PM Emil: Which is of course another step
12:53 PM xentrac: heh "Protopaja"
12:54 PM Emil: xentrac: it's for a course
12:54 PM xentrac: here in Argentina that would mean "proto-masturbation"
12:54 PM xentrac: it came out really nice
12:55 PM Emil: .D
12:55 PM Emil: Oh yeah
12:55 PM Emil: I've heard that
12:55 PM Emil: what does Elepaja mean?
12:56 PM xentrac: L-masturbation, I suppose
12:56 PM Emil: lol
12:57 PM xentrac: "paja" is actuallly a less formal register than "masturbation"; maybe "jerking off" would be a more precise translation
12:57 PM Emil: hehehehehe
12:58 PM Emil: since paja means workshop
12:58 PM Emil: you can now think it like "jerking off workshop"
12:59 PM xentrac: haha
12:59 PM xentrac: the best kind of workshop
01:50 PM polprog: xentrac: Emil: there's a model of mitsubishi called Mitsubishi Pajero :P
01:50 PM xentrac: hahaha, really?
01:52 PM polprog: xentrac: Emil: there's a model of mitsubishi called Mitsubishi Pajero :P
01:52 PM polprog: oop
01:52 PM polprog: s
01:52 PM polprog: :P
01:52 PM polprog: misclick. i suppose it means "wanker"
01:52 PM polprog: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/jlIY2sDKYfw/maxresdefault.jpg
01:56 PM xentrac: yes, it does. or "pervert"
02:02 PM Emil: polprog: :DD
02:07 PM bss36504: Emil: http://www.ebay.com/itm/4KW-WATER-COOLED-SPINDLE-MOTOR-AND-HY-4KW-DRIVE-INVERTER-VFD-FOR-CNC-/252018235573?epid=1572331469&hash=item3aad7518b5:g:1EkAAOSw2s1UwLXn
02:07 PM bss36504: I'd love something like that
02:08 PM Emil: dat cost
02:08 PM bss36504: Better than most
02:09 PM bss36504: It's 4KW though, that's a ton of go-juice
02:10 PM bss36504: 24krpm is terrifying haha
02:11 PM Emil: niice
02:11 PM Emil: Outside of the audible range
02:11 PM bss36504: I want to run carbide tooling and be able to cut steel (light passes), I'm just imagining all the broken carbide inserts that I'll have starting out.
02:11 PM bss36504: they will turn into little shrapnel bombs
02:11 PM bss36504: yeah I mean I wouldn't run it at 24krpm all the time. Gotta get your feeds and speeds right!
02:12 PM bss36504: But with that much top end speed you could run just about any carbide cutter size in any material, correctly
02:15 PM xentrac: no, 24krpm is only 400Hz
02:15 PM Emil: "ONLY"
02:17 PM xentrac: definitely not outside of the audible range
02:17 PM Emil: ahyeah
02:18 PM xentrac: about an octave and a half below its peak actualy
02:18 PM Emil: lol
02:18 PM Emil: my bad
02:18 PM xentrac: there do exist ultrasonic cutters and they are very interesting
02:18 PM xentrac: typically nutating/flexing rather than rotating/sliding
02:21 PM bss36504: I wonder how hard/expensive it would be to build an automatic tool changer....
02:21 PM bss36504: I suppose if the rest of the machine was functional, it would be easy
02:21 PM bss36504: [easier]
02:23 PM bss36504: At the least I'd like a "push pad" thing so that when I do change tools the machine can auto-calculate the new Z of the new tool.
02:45 PM julius: hi
02:46 PM julius: would it be possible to use rfid to record round times when you drive by at ~30km/h (18.6mph) with a cart?
02:48 PM cehteh: you need some exact sensor (lichtschranke) for the lap timing, but rfid may help for identification
02:48 PM bss36504: with UHF, probably. that's how things like EZPass work
02:48 PM Emil: Hmmmmmmmmm
02:48 PM bss36504: cehteh: I disagree, you could use a directional antenna
02:49 PM Emil: I do wonder how the ESPs gpios handle momentary -1.6v :D
02:49 PM bss36504: But I admit you'd probably get more accuracy with something like a laser fence
02:49 PM Emil: Can't they have some fucking clamping circuits
02:49 PM cehteh: yes but complicates things or? and you have less time for reading the chip
02:49 PM bss36504: sure sure, but the UHF systems should be fast enough anyway
02:49 PM cehteh: maybe
02:49 PM bss36504: they do tag reads in a few ms at most
02:50 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-07-06_22-19-22_cComQHBm.png
02:50 PM bss36504: but good luck actually building a UHF RFID reader.
02:50 PM julius: cehteh: and how would one tell one person apart when passing the light barrier when there are others passing too?
02:50 PM Emil: Should have added that clamping diode against ground
02:50 PM cehteh: thats up to you :)
02:50 PM bss36504: AMS makes some chips for it, but unless you want to shell out $500 for a reference design, it's nearly impossible.
02:50 PM Emil: I hope they work
02:50 PM cehteh: julius: i would do some estimation by the rfid as well (signal strength)
02:51 PM cehteh: if your receiver can read out multiple rfid's at once anyway
02:51 PM julius: ok...was just interrested but i can see that it is more complicated than my first thoughts
02:51 PM cehteh: later match the estimated timings with the exact timings from the laser fence
02:51 PM julius: luckily for me somebody else i know wants todo that project
02:52 PM julius: cehteh: good idea
02:52 PM cehteh: there is a openlapcounter project for quadcopters which uses IR diodes sending a identifer on the copters
02:52 PM cehteh: i dont know the details but iirc thats well worked out
02:54 PM cehteh: i once thought about tagging bottoms of copters with a simple barcode of reflective strips, illuminate the area with IR at some carrier frequency and register it with a IR receiver
02:54 PM JanC is now known as Guest56451
02:54 PM JanC_ is now known as JanC
02:54 PM cehteh: that gives timing and identification
02:54 PM cehteh: but i never implemented that
02:55 PM julius: also you would need line of sight
02:55 PM julius: for a copter probably easier than for a cart ;)
02:56 PM cehteh: yes that was given in this case (well with some optics)
02:56 PM julius: but thanks, i will point my friend to openlaptimer
02:56 PM julius: counter i mean
02:57 PM cehteh: or timer, forgotten the name of the project exactly
02:57 PM cehteh: http://www.easyracelaptimer.com/
02:57 PM cehteh: maybe that
02:57 PM julius: yeah thanks
02:57 PM julius: will do,
02:58 PM julius: dont have time for that now anyway
02:58 PM cehteh: https://github.com/YannikW/Open-Lap
02:58 PM cehteh: heh ok
02:58 PM cehteh: well there are solutions already, so you dont have to do anything
03:05 PM Pleiadez: Hey :) Mandevwin
03:06 PM Mandevwin: Hi i just wanted to see if they had an answer, Pleiadez
03:06 PM Pleiadez: Hello everyone, I have a problem with my TV - AVR - PC Connection
03:08 PM Pleiadez: But is this the Audio video receiver channel or the microcontroller variety?
03:09 PM Pleiadez: Ah its the microcontroller I see sorry!
03:13 PM Emil: LeoNerd:
03:13 PM Emil: https://www.tindie.com/products/nsayer/atxmega32e5-breakout-board/
03:14 PM Emil: You have been one-upped
03:14 PM Emil: :D
03:14 PM Emil: ohwat
03:14 PM Emil: wait*
03:14 PM Emil: your's better
03:14 PM Emil: yours' better
03:15 PM Emil: This one is just the pcb+chi+some passives
03:29 PM cehteh: Emil: you know the wattenrott nano clone with 328pb?
03:30 PM cehteh: oops promini
03:30 PM cehteh: http://www.watterott.com/de/Wattuino-pro-mini-PB-5V-16MHz?x57c05=e5cd637f1dbe9fb7de2845980513b5ff
03:30 PM Emil: cehteh: whataboutdat?
03:30 PM Emil: Yeah I know it
03:30 PM cehteh: ok
03:31 PM cehteh: well its cheaper than LeoNerd's :D
03:31 PM Emil: Sure
03:31 PM Emil: but leonerd's works directly
03:31 PM Emil: you can just plug it into usb
03:31 PM cehteh: yes
03:31 PM Emil: I mean, I'm not in the target group :D
03:31 PM cehteh: both have advantages, i'd prolly go for LeoNerd's too when i need one
03:31 PM Emil: And I know there's a premium with what Leonerd does
03:32 PM Emil: but I also know that both are quite cheap for the time it takes to manufacture and design them :D
03:32 PM Emil: not to mention dealing with refunds/broken products and so on
03:32 PM Emil: It's not like Leonerd's making any real money with those
03:33 PM Emil: And those wattuinos are probably made in a huge batch
03:33 PM cehteh: somehow i wait for chinese clones at $3.50 :)
03:34 PM Emil: ;)
03:34 PM Emil: Exactly
03:37 PM polprog: anybody knows any cheap cmos/ccd spi camera chip?
03:37 PM polprog: i wanna play some image processing
03:37 PM cehteh: LeoNerd: you dont have the avcc filter right?
03:44 PM Emil: polprog: eeeh
03:44 PM Emil: polprog: if you wanna image process
03:44 PM Emil: I recommend doing it on a pc
03:44 PM cehteh: or dsp
03:44 PM Emil: There's absolutely no reason, other than masochism, to do image processing/dsp on avr
03:45 PM cehteh: this sensors for optical mouses are interesting
03:45 PM polprog: not like face regoc :P more like inversions, blurs et
03:45 PM polprog: simple
03:45 PM cehteh: thats something like a 16 pixel camera at 1000fps with a tiny dsp
03:45 PM polprog: hmm
03:46 PM polprog: ill loot some optical mouse then
03:46 PM Emil: polprog: I know
03:46 PM Emil: polprog: my stance hasn't changed
03:46 PM Emil: polprog: you can code exactly like you could on an avr
03:47 PM cehteh: polprog: try to dig some datasheets for those
03:47 PM twnqx`: well, multi-threading or cuda/opencl/glsl is not quite like an avr :P
03:48 PM Emil: twnqx`: that's not what I meant
03:48 PM cehteh: http://bdml.stanford.edu/twiki/pub/Rise/OpticalDisplacementSensor/ADNS2051.pdf
03:48 PM cehteh: build a massive AVR cluster with one attiny85 per pixel for full HD
03:48 PM cehteh: i bet you can do interesting things with that
03:48 PM Emil: cehteh: LOL
03:49 PM Emil: cehteh: dat power consumption
03:49 PM cehteh: :)
03:49 PM Emil: also no need for 85
03:49 PM Emil: attiny25 does it just fine
03:49 PM polprog: ive seen flir lepton thermal camera being interfaced to a pic that generated composite video
03:49 PM Emil: 2073600 attinys
03:49 PM polprog: so i guess a regular low res camera would be doable
03:50 PM Emil: polprog: the lepton used there was probably the 80x60 version
03:50 PM polprog: indeed
03:50 PM polprog: but leptons are expensive af
03:50 PM cehteh: Emil: that will block microchips production lines for infinite time :D
03:51 PM polprog: im thinking some old mobile phone camera
03:51 PM Emil: cehteh: that's also a huge fucking screen
03:51 PM Emil: polprog: matey
03:51 PM Emil: polprog: you have absolutely no idea what you are gettin into :D
03:51 PM polprog: yes
03:51 PM polprog: that's the best part
03:51 PM cehteh: Emil: now think about implementing doublebuffering
03:51 PM Emil: polprog: even the oldest of oldest and shittiest
03:51 PM Emil: polprog: stooooop
03:52 PM Emil: cehteh: actually doable since you have dat 2M attinys
03:52 PM polprog: look even if it's 0.1 fps at no processing it will be fun
03:52 PM Emil: It has quite some processing power
03:52 PM Emil: sync is an issue though :D
03:52 PM Emil: polprog: 600x800 doesn't fit into your memory
03:52 PM polprog: Jartza's definitely an expert on syncing attinys :P
03:53 PM polprog: who says i have to fit 800x600 to memory
03:53 PM cehteh: you can run them sync locked
03:53 PM cehteh: thats not the problem
03:53 PM Emil: polprog: you are free to waste time :D
03:53 PM twnqx`: or you could just buy an arm at the price of an avr >_>
03:53 PM cehteh: but data bus and driving will be
03:53 PM Emil: cehteh: it is!
03:53 PM Emil: cehteh: when your screen is fucking huge :D
03:53 PM cehteh: i havent saied anything about the screen
03:53 PM Emil: cehteh: wavelength length!
03:53 PM twnqx`: i mean, sure, the challenge is fun
03:54 PM polprog: this guy does it on a pic32
03:54 PM twnqx`: and impressive to get the vga working in software
03:54 PM polprog: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQYByorpoFk
03:54 PM polprog: drone alert
03:54 PM polprog: just watch the first 5sec
03:54 PM twnqx`: but hell, i'd just drop an fpga ane be done
03:54 PM Emil: polprog:
03:54 PM p1x33l: Hello
03:54 PM Emil: mike's a god
03:54 PM Emil: you should know that :D
03:54 PM polprog: i know
03:55 PM polprog: he's kida my idol when it comes to electronics
03:56 PM p1x33l: stupid question, but what is you guys' favorite microcontroller?
03:56 PM polprog: my starter and the best known is mega16
03:57 PM polprog: why are you asking?
03:57 PM p1x33l: just out of curiosity
03:58 PM p1x33l: we use the atmega 324p in school, and I was wondering why they chose that particular one
03:58 PM twnqx`: just whatever is the cheapest to get a certain job gone
03:59 PM polprog: 328 is the most popular imo
03:59 PM Emil: p1x33l: hi
03:59 PM polprog: but that's because it's in arduino uno
03:59 PM Emil: p1x33l: and favourite would be some god tier ARM
03:59 PM twnqx`: never used one
03:59 PM twnqx` is now known as twnqx
03:59 PM Emil: but most used would be m328p/pb
03:59 PM Emil: polprog: 328p
03:59 PM polprog: whatever
03:59 PM Emil: polprog: 328 is _legacy_
03:59 PM Emil: polprog: stop
04:00 PM polprog: ok, 328p
04:00 PM Emil: polprog: go stand in the corner with that attitude :D
04:00 PM polprog: never used one, i had no idea about the difference :P
04:00 PM Emil: you rebellious pole
04:00 PM Emil: 328!=328p!=328pb
04:00 PM polprog: ok
04:00 PM polprog: ok
04:01 PM polprog: did i mention i dont have an arduino?
04:01 PM polprog: i found the module mike talks about, it's fairly cheap in a local shop
04:01 PM Emil: how does that relate?
04:02 PM polprog: not having an ardweeny?
04:02 PM Emil: yeah
04:02 PM polprog: well, no particular reason to choose 328p/pb
04:02 PM Emil: I don't understand
04:03 PM polprog: my first avr was m16, then i bought m8. and i did some minor stuff with both of those. and now im learning asm on t4313. that's every avr ive ever used
04:03 PM Emil: 328 is leeeegaaacyyyy :D
04:03 PM polprog: okaaay
04:03 PM polprog: i guess you cant buy it?
04:04 PM Emil: buy what?
04:04 PM Emil: oh you can
04:04 PM Emil: but you shouldn't
04:04 PM polprog: ok stop it i get it 328 is legacy
04:04 PM polprog: let me google the differences between 328p and 328pb
04:04 PM Emil: :D
04:05 PM Emil: http://www.atmel.com/Images/Atmel-42559-Differences-between-ATmega328P-and-ATmega328PB_ApplicationNote_AT15007.pdf
04:05 PM Emil: There you go
04:05 PM Emil: If you buy new
04:05 PM Emil: buy pb
04:05 PM polprog: i was about to mention that appnote
04:05 PM Emil: Hmmm
04:05 PM Emil: I should really fucking crack the PTC thingy
04:05 PM Emil: it's not fucking documented
04:05 PM Emil: I fucking rage at that for atmel
04:06 PM polprog: PTC?
04:06 PM polprog: ah touch
04:06 PM polprog: i guess you would have to pay to get the resources
04:06 PM Emil: Or
04:06 PM Emil: Just generate some code in atmel studio and dissasemble
04:06 PM Emil: it's not like they can fucking hide that
04:07 PM Emil: Hmm
04:07 PM Emil: I should message microshit and ask for that resource
04:07 PM Emil: no fucking reason to hide those registers
04:07 PM polprog: mfw they implement a vm with custom opcodes to hide generated code from mad finns who crave PTC docs
04:08 PM polprog: i guess i will order some ov7670 modules and play
04:08 PM polprog: in other news ^
04:08 PM Emil: lol
04:08 PM Emil: polprog: if they don't write to any reserved bits
04:08 PM Emil: polprog: or other hidden registers
04:09 PM Emil: polprog: I don't care, it's all software if they do that
04:09 PM Emil: But they fucking advertise having hardware touch so I want to know wtf
04:09 PM polprog: xD
04:10 PM polprog: hmm i also have some sony module with a black and white ccd
04:10 PM polprog: from a CCTV camera
04:10 PM polprog: it outputs composite, but they cant hide the ccd pins
04:10 PM Emil: it's all software if they don't write to undocumented registers or reserved bits*
04:10 PM Emil: and I don't care if it's software
04:10 PM Emil: *
04:10 PM * polprog has no idea about ccds and is keen as hell to learn reverse engineering
04:11 PM Emil: polprog: you were supposed to be the one
04:11 PM Emil: but you are free to waste time as you see fit :D
04:11 PM polprog: to be the one who
04:11 PM polprog: :P
04:11 PM polprog: and it's not wasting time
04:12 PM polprog: its poking around
04:13 PM Emil: I bet my money as follow
04:13 PM Emil: What you will learn from this adventure is that:
04:13 PM Emil: "Don't try the impossible and don't waste time with silly things" :D
04:16 PM polprog: oh come on if they say it's arduino compatible then it cant be fucking impossible
04:16 PM polprog: on the other hand it's .3 Mpix
04:17 PM polprog: that's ~100 times more ram needed that m128 has
04:17 PM Emil: :D
04:17 PM polprog: :D
04:17 PM polprog: ok
04:17 PM Emil: if you want to do image processing on a micro
04:18 PM Emil: use arm
04:18 PM polprog: forget the image processing part!
04:18 PM Emil: :D
04:20 PM polprog: but i could make a composite bitcrusher
04:20 PM polprog: and do digital signall stuff
04:20 PM polprog: like inverting
04:20 PM polprog: xoring
04:21 PM polprog: whatever
04:23 PM polprog: maybe it's a good excuse to learn arm
04:23 PM Emil: that's image processing
04:23 PM polprog: look
04:23 PM Emil: Just buy the thing and try it out
04:24 PM Emil: I was too pessimistic above
04:24 PM polprog: ok, gtg
04:24 PM polprog: sleep()
04:24 PM Emil: you can do it on an avr
04:24 PM Emil: polprog: good night
04:24 PM polprog: do it!
04:24 PM polprog: good night
04:24 PM polprog: o/
07:06 PM LeoNerd: cehteh: ATmega328PB doesn't have a separate AVCC pin
07:10 PM cehteh: huh ok
07:11 PM LeoNerd: Ohwait yes it does
07:12 PM LeoNerd: Hmm.. I thought it was just two VCC pins, but no the second is AVCC
07:12 PM cehteh: i was wondering why watenrott advertizes they did the filter right :D
07:13 PM cehteh: so time for a 0.4 version of your board :D
07:13 PM cehteh: unpopulated pads for a cap on aref could be useful too
07:16 PM LeoNerd: I do have a cap on AREF
07:17 PM LeoNerd: I'm also wondering on a next version using the QFN package instead of QFP. It might actually be easier to solder
07:17 PM cehteh: mhm dont you need to set a fuse when you have that cap?
07:17 PM LeoNerd: Or at least, to solder without bridging pins
07:18 PM LeoNerd: I don't think so?
07:18 PM cehteh: there are different modes how you can use aref, you can even use it as output (reference only)
07:19 PM cehteh: and when you hook some precision reference to it, it matters what cap you have there
07:19 PM LeoNerd: You might have to set ADC control register bits, but I don't recall any actual fuses
07:19 PM cehteh: not sure about the fuse, i somewhere read about that, but that could been another chip
07:19 PM cehteh: i never used the 328pb yet
07:20 PM LeoNerd: The fuses on AVRs are generally just boot configuration.. the things the hardware needs to know in order to start up
07:20 PM LeoNerd: Once started, the software runs the show
07:20 PM cehteh: can it run the rtc from a special battery pin?
07:20 PM LeoNerd: No
07:20 PM LeoNerd: I think only Xmegas have that
07:21 PM cehteh: seen that somewhere yes
07:25 PM ferdna: what would you name Q on a pcb?
07:26 PM ferdna: A1241-YK803
07:26 PM ferdna: Casper, ^
07:50 PM tpw_rules: transistor
07:54 PM ferdna: thanks
08:05 PM enhering: Hi. I got a question. I have an SPI bus with a master and many slaves. I'd like to have a second master that would substitute the first one in case it fails. Is it possible to do that?
08:06 PM enhering: There will be a shift register doing the slave select of the slaves.
08:08 PM rue_house: with enough code
08:09 PM enhering: For me the problem is the hw
08:10 PM rue_house: are you looping the devices ?
08:11 PM enhering: sorry, rue_house. What do you mean by looping the devices?
08:11 PM rue_house: wel, they can be set up in parallel or series
08:11 PM rue_house: if you put them in series, you only need one select line
08:12 PM rue_house: but it gets complicalted if some of the devices dont have a NOP
08:12 PM enhering: All devices share the same SPI bus. There is one SS for each slave. The master SS is used to select the shift register.
08:14 PM enhering: The master substitute would have to be able to select the shift register, also using its own SS line. But in this case the shift register SS would be connected to two possible masters, which could cause great confusion.
08:16 PM enhering: One master should also be able to completely disable the other one, to avoid concurrency problems.
08:17 PM enhering: I'm afraid I could not explain this in a clear way
08:19 PM enhering: rue_house: I do not understand the concept of parallel or series devices in a SPI bus
08:20 PM enhering: If two devices share the same select line, won't both respond at the same time?
08:20 PM rue_house: you have a miso and a mosi or just data?
08:20 PM enhering: miso and mosi
08:21 PM enhering: and sck
08:41 PM rue_house: have you worked it out yet?
09:13 PM enhering: prplague helped me to solve the problem with a 74xx mux on #sparkfun
09:14 PM enhering: rue_house: I'm working on a design, but not sure if I can do it now. I still have to read more.
10:02 PM Thrashbarg_ is now known as Thrashbarg
11:36 PM Thrashbarg_ is now known as Thrashbarg