#avr Logs
Jun 26 2017
#avr Calendar
02:14 AM eszett: hi..
02:17 AM eszett: I have a question
02:17 AM eszett: When I want to run a crystal at 16MHz, how do I prepare the "Equivalence Series Resistance" for it? https://vgy.me/PNSCdB.jpg
02:17 AM eszett: or in other words, I don't understand what this table wants to tell me..
02:21 AM LiaoTao: eszett: http://www.oscilent.com/spec_pages/PNDescrpt/ESR_Mode.htm
02:22 AM LiaoTao: Second paragraph
02:22 AM l9_ is now known as l9
02:23 AM daey: what is the easiest way to connect an atmega wirelessly to a ntp server?
02:28 AM eszett: LiaoTao: "The ESR becomes critical when resistance values reach a point were..." does that mean when the resistance values are really low this will be no problem, only when they are extremely high?
02:28 AM Casper: eszett: for the avr you don't care
02:28 AM Casper: just use the proper caps and that's it
02:28 AM eszett: alright
02:28 AM LiaoTao: What Casper said
02:29 AM Casper: if you were however to make your own oscillator then it enter in the math to make the driver
02:29 AM Casper: since the driver is inside the avr you don't have to deal with that
02:29 AM Casper: (however, even then, the driver can most likelly handle a wide range, so may not even be important)
02:34 AM Casper: nite
02:34 AM eszett: good nite
02:40 AM eszett: The crystal I chose has a CL of 9pF, that means I have to take caps with 8pF, since the calculation is 9pF = (8pF * 8pF) / (8pF + 8pF) + 5pF ... right?
02:40 AM eszett: Which seems to be odd, since most circuits of the Atmega32U4, have caps of 18 or 22 pF...
02:43 AM eszett: ah, no, should be right anyway
02:43 AM polprog: irc the datasheet gives some recommended cap range
02:44 AM polprog: page 26
02:51 AM eszett: right, and therefore two sources of information are colliding with each other. The datasheet recommends a cap range of 12-22 pF. But the formula to calculate the caps, including the CL of the crystal (9pF), gives me a result of 8pF.
02:52 AM eszett: AFAIK it the caps's value depends rather on this formula, not on the datasheet?
03:02 AM daey: it doesnt look like anyone has ever done "ntp via uart" ;.;
03:03 AM polprog: i think the espressif wifi module can communicate via uart
03:13 AM Emil: RAGH
03:13 AM Emil: What the fuck have I done
03:14 AM Emil: How the fuck could I have selected the wrong footprint wtf :D
03:15 AM Emil: Do I need to fucking design a piggyback chip wtffff
03:17 AM polprog: lol
03:17 AM Emil: No fucking
03:17 AM Emil: way
03:18 AM Emil: Are there multiple fucking versions of the same chip :D
03:18 AM Emil: Or just a fucking error in the datashit?
03:18 AM polprog: wich chip is this
03:18 AM Emil: Atmega328pb
03:18 AM Emil: http://www.mouser.fi/ProductDetail/Microchip-Technology-Atmel/ATMEGA328PB-MN/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu9ReDVvI6ax2%252bJyCuYxVcyHnkaX55WZKL%2fCb73ywmqOA%3d%3d
03:18 AM Emil: No ground pad
03:18 AM Emil: and the dimensions from mouser linked datasheet
03:18 AM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-06-26_10-48-27_KPHIkaNu.png
03:19 AM Emil: I swear
03:19 AM polprog: wtf
03:19 AM Emil: The fucking matrix is changing around me
03:20 AM polprog: if you click "more images" on that mouser site
03:20 AM polprog: see what happens
03:20 AM Emil: Okay I think I have the right footprint
03:20 AM Emil: But I swear the datashit on atmels site
03:20 AM Emil: said 3x3mm VQFN
03:20 AM Emil: But it says 5mm
03:20 AM polprog: just add the ground pad,
03:21 AM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-06-26_10-50-35_tluAWMab.png
03:21 AM Emil: It's there already
03:21 AM Emil: the size was my concern
03:21 AM Emil: but I swear the Matrix changed when I started to talk about it
03:21 AM evil_dan2wik is now known as dan2wik
03:21 AM polprog: that doesnt remotely look like the ground pad
03:22 AM Emil: shhhh
03:22 AM Emil: I needed space underneath ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
03:22 AM polprog: hope you have a good soldermask :D
03:22 AM Emil: OSHPark should deliver
03:22 AM polprog: ye
03:23 AM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-06-26_10-53-29_EwPjT9zj.png
03:24 AM Emil: Is there anything else I should add or do
03:24 AM Emil: (This is a different project)
03:25 AM polprog: rst jumper (even as 2 small pads of a 0603 resistor), and a power led
03:25 AM Emil: Why would I need an rst jumper?
03:25 AM Emil: Power led, eh, perhaps
03:25 AM Emil: Why not
03:25 AM polprog: to reset the thing?
03:26 AM Emil: It's done through DTR
03:26 AM polprog: whats DTR
03:27 AM polprog: also, what's the project, why are there so many pin headers
03:27 AM Emil: Just breaking them out
03:28 AM polprog: oh
03:28 AM Emil: It's mostly just a nrf24l01+ test board
03:28 AM polprog: nice module
03:29 AM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-06-26_10-58-20_LJmjm2W6.png
03:30 AM polprog: ?
03:31 AM polprog: ah i see
03:31 AM polprog: ftdi = ft232rl?
03:31 AM polprog: and DTR = data terminal ready
03:31 AM polprog: ok
03:32 AM polprog: so remote reset, smart
03:33 AM polprog: gtg
03:34 AM Emil: cya
03:59 AM eszett: I have a question.. this is my crystal's technical drawing. https://vgy.me/q4effT.jpg does this mean pad 2 and 4 shall not be connected at all to the Atmega?
04:04 AM dan2wik: Pad 2 and 4 should be connected to gnd
04:08 AM eszett: ye, I see. but the datasheet is pretty implicit on that, a mistake here and I could have trashed the whole circuit
04:09 AM eszett: ah, no "GND" is written there, doh
04:09 AM dan2wik: the ground connections on that crystal aren't physically connected to the oscillator, it is just basic shielding.
04:12 AM eszett: ok, let's say by some design flaw, someone would have connected pad 2+4 to the MCU. Now you can't even rotate the physical crystal by 180 degrees, to fix the flaw. It would have been much smarter by the crystal manufacturer to operate with crystal with pad 4+1 or 3+2, so that turning it by 180 degrees would fix a possible mistake
04:12 AM eszett: isnt it?
04:13 AM dan2wik: It is better for stability to keep the pads far away from eachother
04:13 AM eszett: hmm, they are maybe 0.02mm farther away
04:14 AM dan2wik: But since the distance between 3+1 is the same as 4+2, you could put the crystal on an angle
04:15 AM dan2wik: Provided enough clearance to rotate the crystal to line up the pads
04:15 AM eszett: ah, nice idea.. ye that would be a fix. abit dirty, but would do it probably
04:24 AM Emil: eh
04:24 AM Emil: the crystals are rotational symmetrical by design
04:24 AM Emil: so that you can place them whichever way
04:25 AM Emil: if you fuck up in layout phase it is the designers fault
04:26 AM Emil: Two minutes more on design vs potentially thousands boards defective because the part orientation was not specified
04:32 AM eszett: ye one little lack of concentration and the trash bin is greeting :-)
04:36 AM eszett: a reasonable footprint design, with explicit "GND" notes, like these https://vgy.me/Z9ByDu.jpg can be useful too to avoid mistakes
04:56 AM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-06-26_12-26-23_8usIonuj.png
04:56 AM Emil: I think that's pretty clear ;)
04:57 AM Emil: But yeah
04:57 AM Emil: Clear drawings are always nice to have
05:22 AM twnqx: eszett: you don't prepare it; it's what the crystal just has
05:23 AM twnqx: i think you need the ESR to get the right capacitor values
05:23 AM Emil: twnqx: just load capacitance
05:24 AM Emil: and assumed stray capacitance
05:24 AM eszett: Yes I have the formula where I insert CL and Cstray (which is guessed with 5pF)
05:24 AM Emil: yeah
05:24 AM Emil: It's around 16pF usually
05:25 AM eszett: right. But with this crystal here having 9pF CL, I get something like 8pF for the caps
05:26 AM Emil: Yeha
05:26 AM Emil: Yeah
05:26 AM Emil: that's fine
05:26 AM eszett: alright, I just wondered..
06:59 AM kre10s: Is there a way I can have gcc tell me approximately how large each of my functions are?
07:03 AM Lambda_Aurigae: well, if they were all in separate sections then avr-size would do it.
07:04 AM Lambda_Aurigae: put each function in a separate file and compile everything separately then use avr-size on the .o files
07:08 AM Lambda_Aurigae: maybe use avr-objdump ?
10:59 AM kre10s: I love how argp has a argp_program_bug_address. that will conveniently let me print "Report bugs to /dev/null." when I don't want to be held responsible
01:00 PM kre10s_: Robust firmware update via radio... I has it!
01:01 PM LeoNerd: I did consider if I could write an nRF24L01 bootloader
01:22 PM BongoShaftsbury: can anyone recommend a decent GPS device to use w/ a MCU
01:30 PM bss36504: Sparkfun has a good guide on choosing GPS
01:30 PM bss36504: https://www.sparkfun.com/pages/GPS_Guide
01:30 PM BongoShaftsbury: tyty
01:31 PM bss36504: I think I have an EM-506. Maybe not though, I don't remember paying that much for it. At any rate, I haven't had time to play with it yet.
01:34 PM kre10s_: LeoNerd: :) but ya didn't did ya?
01:34 PM Lambda_Aurigae: samsung galaxy y works for gps...I have 8 of them now.
01:34 PM Lambda_Aurigae: tie to a microcontroller via the usb port.
01:35 PM Emil: BongoShaftsbury: ublox
01:35 PM LeoNerd: I did not
01:36 PM bss36504: BongoShaftsbury: Oh this is actually the one I have https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13740
01:46 PM Lambda_Aurigae: nifty little toy.
01:48 PM BongoShaftsbury: ah rgr that, thanks
01:48 PM BongoShaftsbury: got distracted for a moment gf wants me to pick out a desktop for her
03:35 PM FunkyDrummer is now known as MrFahrenheit
04:08 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-06-26_23-37-41_Eo1bUHmQ.png
04:08 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-06-26_23-38-00_2fJ1dnIJ.png
04:08 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-06-26_23-38-12_nHOEkfyB.png
04:08 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-06-26_23-38-24_VirGrTvl.png
04:09 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-06-26_23-38-45_Jexc0u12.png
04:09 PM Emil: what the fuck
04:09 PM Emil: digikery
04:20 PM learath: Emil: hahah
04:29 PM antto: price per ten intensifies..
04:29 PM antto: inTENsifies!
04:35 PM polprog: tis a packing fee ;)
04:35 PM polprog: for the bags
04:52 PM BongoShaftsbury: handling fee, cause they have to gather 10x 1x packages
04:54 PM Emil: Hmm
04:54 PM Emil: I think I'll have to do an order again
04:54 PM Emil: I wonder if I should choose mouser this time
04:54 PM BongoShaftsbury: are you apprehensive with mouser?
04:54 PM Emil: They are reliable, nice and I don't have to deal with the fucking customs/ups :D
04:54 PM Emil: apprehensive?
04:55 PM Emil: Mouser sells to private people just fine
04:55 PM BongoShaftsbury: yeah
04:55 PM Emil: No I like mouser
04:55 PM Emil: Digikey just has this magic power of twisting its tentacles around everyone
04:56 PM BongoShaftsbury: never bought anything from them
04:56 PM Emil: Digikey?
04:56 PM BongoShaftsbury: yep
04:56 PM Emil: That's a surprise
04:58 PM Emil: Well
04:58 PM Emil: I mean
04:58 PM Emil: It's absolutely fine :D
04:58 PM Emil: Mouser is good
04:58 PM Emil: I've never ordered from Arrow though
04:58 PM Emil: their search is laggy as fuck
06:45 PM JanC_ is now known as JanC
07:25 PM BongoShaftsbury: atmel has a library for fatfs
07:26 PM BongoShaftsbury: that makes me happy
07:26 PM Lambda_Aurigae: is that part of that ASF thingie?
07:26 PM BongoShaftsbury: yeah
07:26 PM BongoShaftsbury: it's pretty handy
07:26 PM Lambda_Aurigae: tried once to get it to work.
07:26 PM BongoShaftsbury: it's like programming on ez mode
07:27 PM Lambda_Aurigae: without atmel studio it's kind of a pain in the ass.
07:27 PM Tom_itx: is that something fairly new?
07:27 PM BongoShaftsbury: yeah the ASF programs a lot of stuff behind the scenes with board specifics
07:27 PM Lambda_Aurigae: Tom_itx, been around a while.
07:27 PM rue_house: yay, my vibration sensors arrived!
07:27 PM BongoShaftsbury: woot!
07:27 PM Lambda_Aurigae: it is usable without atmel studio but not easily.
07:27 PM Lambda_Aurigae: woot! has gone waaaay downhill.
07:27 PM rue_house: now I can make a device I can strap to my phone that will make a ting tone when my phone vibrates!
07:28 PM Lambda_Aurigae: it's like a mini amazon.com now.
07:28 PM BongoShaftsbury: rue_house: did you hear, i was over complicating the project i was asking about last week
07:28 PM rue_house: I know
07:28 PM Tom_itx: why on earth...
07:28 PM rue_house: some people just roll that way
07:28 PM rue_house: :]
07:29 PM BongoShaftsbury: you can keep your phone on vibrate and have it play a chip tune
07:29 PM BongoShaftsbury: when it rings
07:29 PM BongoShaftsbury: vibrates*
07:30 PM Lambda_Aurigae: because, we wouldn't want to load the chiptune to the phone and play it directly or anything.
07:30 PM Lambda_Aurigae: that would be too simple.
07:31 PM Tom_itx: :D
07:31 PM Tom_itx: i was reading that scratching my head and butt at the same time trying to make sense of it
07:32 PM Tom_itx: rue_house, make an earthquake alert out of it
07:32 PM * Lambda_Aurigae speaks rue_house fluently.
07:32 PM BongoShaftsbury: just tell ppl your ring tone is broken
07:32 PM rue_house: its a pack of 10, I can make both
07:33 PM BongoShaftsbury: i'm making a direction finder for my final project
07:33 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I just have various doctor who soundbytes.
07:33 PM Tom_itx: are you trying to catch up with that dude in the video on parts stock?
07:33 PM BongoShaftsbury: trying to get the component list together atm
07:33 PM Lambda_Aurigae: direction of what
07:33 PM Lambda_Aurigae: ?
07:33 PM BongoShaftsbury: well start w/ something simple like wifi
07:33 PM Lambda_Aurigae: bullet travel?
07:34 PM Lambda_Aurigae: so, rf.
07:34 PM BongoShaftsbury: ya
07:34 PM Lambda_Aurigae: antenna in a pringles can with a servo to turn it and listen for highest gain.
07:34 PM BongoShaftsbury: i was thinking GPS + wifi antenna log signal + location and triangulate
07:35 PM Lambda_Aurigae: that's an absolute location finder, not a direction finder.
07:35 PM * rue_house squints
07:35 PM rue_house: there's 20!
07:35 PM rue_house: I can make a people sensor for the front deck too
07:35 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I think that's been done on android phones already.
07:36 PM Lambda_Aurigae: no external hardware needed.
07:36 PM BongoShaftsbury: it has
07:37 PM BongoShaftsbury: but i'll prob get a bad grade if i download an app as my project
07:37 PM rue_house: that leaves only 30 things backlogged from china
07:37 PM rue_house: I feel I should buy 10 more things
07:37 PM BongoShaftsbury: is it a get one thing, order 10 more?
07:37 PM rue_house: it is the way I shop
07:39 PM Lambda_Aurigae: make a robot that turns and rolls toward the brightest light source...without any integrated circuits.
07:39 PM BongoShaftsbury: do you just warehouse a ton of components and rummage through your stockpile to find what you need?
07:39 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I do!
07:39 PM rue_house: hell no
07:39 PM rue_house: I buy thigs for two reasons,
07:40 PM rue_house: a) I want them for a specific project
07:40 PM Lambda_Aurigae: if I need one of something I buy two more at least, just in case,,,so long as they are cheap.
07:40 PM rue_house: b) they just look fun and giggly and I get them to play with
07:40 PM rue_house: c) I need them for basic shop stock
07:40 PM rue_house: one.. twooo... THREE! three reasons
07:40 PM enhering: These are three reasons...
07:40 PM enhering: Ok
07:41 PM Lambda_Aurigae: e) he who dies with the most toys wins!
07:41 PM * rue_house wonders what d) is
07:41 PM Lambda_Aurigae: you DON'T want to know.
07:41 PM enhering: Beautiful colors, probably
07:42 PM rue_house: ok, so, now I have a motor speed controller for the spindle motor I got, which I got extra brushes for, and a shaft coupler, and a R11 collette with 1/8 and 1/4" collets
07:42 PM rue_house: so, where are the high speed bearings?
07:43 PM Lambda_Aurigae: on the slow boat from taiwan
07:43 PM rue_house: ... but, they said high speed
07:43 PM rue_house: NCE7190
07:43 PM Lambda_Aurigae: ok..on the fast boat from taiwan taking the other way around the planet.
07:43 PM rue_house: x6 = 40A?
07:44 PM BongoShaftsbury: taiwan is almost in a location where any direction they go would be about the same distance traveled to the us
07:45 PM rue_house: it only takes 5 days to get to canada, it takes 2-7 MONTHS to be processed by canada post and get from 'vancouver' to 'sechelt'
07:45 PM Lambda_Aurigae: rue_house, not sure your question. The datasheet I have says it's 90A
07:45 PM rue_house: please consult google earth for the distance on that
07:45 PM Lambda_Aurigae: BongoShaftsbury, it's a spiral path that must make at least 5 loops around the planet.
07:46 PM enhering: rue_house: Really? 2 to 7 months?
07:46 PM enhering: Just like Brazil. 5 days to arrive at the south, 5 months from south to north
07:46 PM rue_house: yea
07:47 PM enhering: Best to live in Vancouver
07:49 PM rue_house: yup 90A
07:50 PM rue_house: so, this "40A" motor speed controller, uses 6 of them
07:51 PM rue_house: i DO have $25 here
07:51 PM rue_house: thats like almost $17 usd
07:53 PM rue_house: should I get a big ticket item?
07:53 PM rue_house: like https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RepRap-3D-Printer-THSL-300-8D-Lead-Screw-Dia-8MM-Thread-8mm-Length-300mm-with-Copper/1845020845.html
07:54 PM rue_house: or get a bunch of things for the same expense,
07:54 PM rue_house: like https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10pcs-2N5458-TRANSISTOR-2N5458-5458-TO-92-new/32599338064.html
07:57 PM Lambda_Aurigae: 6 of them for major overload maybe?
07:57 PM Lambda_Aurigae: also, how are they heatsinked?
07:57 PM rue_house: individually, with verticle fins
07:58 PM rue_house: ]E
07:59 PM Lambda_Aurigae: might need more heatsink to hit the full 90A.
08:53 PM rue_bed: they use a 555, I wnder if it can even do 0-100%
08:54 PM * rue_bed starts to wake up
08:54 PM rue_bed: 6:30 ok
08:54 PM Lambda_Aurigae: almost 8:30pm here.
08:55 PM rue_bed: I need to wake up
08:55 PM rue_bed: still drowsy
08:55 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I'm spinning down to go to sleep here.
08:55 PM rue_bed: oki, I make a list of braindead things to do if found braindead
08:55 PM rue_bed: what were they...
08:55 PM rue_bed: I could strip circuit boards
08:56 PM rue_bed: at some point I have some python code to fix a unicode problem with
08:56 PM rue_bed: that takes thinking tho
08:57 PM rue_bed: I have a medical machine to strip down
08:57 PM rue_bed: progress on that is good
08:57 PM rue_bed: ok
08:57 PM rue_bed: I need to lay this out for me ahead of time
08:58 PM rue_bed: maybe i can set the mowerbot loose while I work
08:58 PM rue_bed: lawn needs it
08:58 PM rue_bed: ok, I need to make a motivation bot
08:59 PM Lambda_Aurigae: put a cattle prod on the roomba.
08:59 PM rue_bed: no.. friednly
08:59 PM rue_bed: like, cmon, lets PLAY
09:00 PM rue_bed: rue_house, hows that AI framework going?
09:00 PM Lambda_Aurigae: you should start with an AS...then teach it.
09:00 PM rue_house: I'm out of juice, what kinda motivation is this?
09:00 PM Lambda_Aurigae: where's the juice bot?
09:39 PM Thrashbarg__ is now known as Thrashbarg
09:42 PM enhering: Here is 23:10
09:43 PM Lambda_Aurigae: 21:12 by my clock.
09:43 PM enhering: This round world thing is so confusing...
09:43 PM enhering: Makes me think in circles
09:44 PM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah...those people who keep saying it's a sphere are just strange.
09:44 PM Lambda_Aurigae: we all know it's just a circle.
09:46 PM enhering: I 've seen a documentary in history channel about a live vulcano under italy. It can explode at any moment and send part of italy to mars. How can people live with that there?
09:46 PM enhering: 100 times stronger than vesuvio
09:46 PM enhering: alive and boiling
09:49 PM Lambda_Aurigae: check out the vulcanism under a large portion of USA
09:50 PM Lambda_Aurigae: major pressure built up under Yellowstone.
09:50 PM Lambda_Aurigae: not to mention the tornados that wipe people off the map around me.
09:51 PM Lambda_Aurigae: plenty of disasters waiting to happen around the world.
09:51 PM Lambda_Aurigae: you just live with it and don't think about it.
09:52 PM enhering: If I understand well Discovery channel, humanity can disappear at any moment because of: a) the fall of a big asteroid; b) the explosion of ona, of many, big vulcanoes; c) A huge sun storm that can fry our grid lines; d) a possbile magnetic axis turn, disabling the planetary magnetic shield for three days; f) a quantum something that can tear space time of the universe in a few seconds; f) Trump
09:53 PM enhering: No extraterrestrial invasions mentioned.
09:55 PM Lambda_Aurigae: Yeah. We have no desire to invade. We have enough scouts here and have determined that humanity isn't a threat. More like an autistic kid we laugh at once in a while.
09:55 PM enhering: I hope I can make my tricopter fly before the world is destroyed.
09:56 PM enhering: Imagine managing humanity after invading it. Complete hell. Let it be like that.
09:56 PM Lambda_Aurigae: if the planet were worth invading we would just wipe the vermin rather than trying to manage or rule it.
09:56 PM enhering: Monkeys will take over in a few centuries, anyway.
09:57 PM Lambda_Aurigae: My money is on cats. They are much more intelligent.
09:57 PM enhering: We have three here.
09:57 PM enhering: We feed them, clean their mess, play with them. They are much smarter than us.
09:58 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I'm pretty sure the earth has already been invaded and the takeover is in progress already. The cats are just very patient. I'm still not sure what they want with this world, other than a slave race.
09:59 PM enhering: I'm sure earth has never been for earthlings too.
10:00 PM Lambda_Aurigae: ok..off to bed for me.
10:00 PM enhering: There are already too many places humans cannot go here.
10:00 PM enhering: Me too. Goodnight.
10:00 PM Lambda_Aurigae: humans aren't the only earthlings!
10:01 PM enhering: no. we are not.
10:01 PM enhering: I saw the movie.
10:02 PM enhering: I've been a vegetarian for 35 year now.
10:02 PM enhering: years
10:02 PM enhering: That is another subject
10:04 PM enhering: In how many states can a multicopter be?'
10:04 PM mark4: so i have an adafruit atmega32u4 breakout board and for the life of me i cannot get the UART to tx or rx so im looking at the fuses for the clock setting. i know this board has an external 16Mhz xtal. that is not one of the options on the fuses.
10:04 PM mark4: what fuse setting do i select?
10:05 PM mark4: there are like 45 or so different settings and i cannot see anything in there for 16mhz external xtal
10:05 PM enhering: mark4, do you have a scope?
10:05 PM mark4: no
10:06 PM enhering: have you tried all possible combinations of stop bits, baud ates, etc?
10:06 PM enhering: Usually only one of them works
10:06 PM mark4: i want to set the fuse bits
10:07 PM mark4: 45 options to chose from in the settings under atmel studio and the 32L data sheet full has F O U R settings
10:07 PM mark4: wtf
10:07 PM enhering: I'd leave the fuses alone
10:07 PM mark4: i need to set it to "external rc osc"
10:07 PM mark4: no
10:07 PM mark4: the fuse is WRONG
10:07 PM enhering: why?
10:07 PM mark4: its set to external osc 3 - 8 mhz
10:07 PM mark4: NOT SIXTEEN Mhz
10:08 PM enhering: set it to internal first
10:08 PM mark4: and its got all kinds of BS "start up time" settings in here that are not mentioned in the datasheet
10:08 PM enhering: less risky
10:08 PM mark4: how do i make it use the external osc
10:09 PM mark4: this is an atmega32u4 - there are exactly F O U R settings in the data sheet
10:09 PM mark4: "External Osc" is the one i want to use
10:09 PM mark4: thats not an option in the IDE
10:10 PM Thrashbarg: http://www.engbedded.com/fusecalc/
10:10 PM enhering: internal osc does not depend on electronics. You can test your USART
10:10 PM mark4: NO IM NOT SETTING 0xNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN on the fuse bits
10:10 PM mark4: im setting "Ext. Cryztalk Osc. blah blah blah" setting from the IDE
10:10 PM mark4: not in the code
10:11 PM mark4: the ide does not allow me to program the binary value of the fuse
10:11 PM enhering: can't you use avrdude?
10:11 PM mark4: just some NAMED value that they only give the name for
10:11 PM mark4: no
10:11 PM mark4: im using atmel studio
10:11 PM enhering: why?
10:11 PM mark4: how do i set it to external OSC with atmel studio
10:11 PM enhering: avrdude is just one line to set the fuses
10:11 PM enhering: I have no idea
10:12 PM mark4: "hey my car doesnt start, can you help me diagnose it" answer "sure go buy a bike"
10:12 PM enhering: more like go walking
10:12 PM mark4: so fucking frustrating here
10:12 PM enhering: When IDES do not work, go to cli
10:13 PM mark4: the datasheet says externa crystal/ceramic resonator or.. external low freq crustal or... external rc osc... or.. calibrated internal rc osc... or external clock
10:13 PM Thrashbarg: people who don't use IDE's tend to live longer :P
10:13 PM mark4: 5 options not 4
10:13 PM mark4: i ****H****A****V****E**** to use this IDE. I have NO fucking choice
10:13 PM mark4: period
10:14 PM enhering: I bricked four ATMega328p trying to set them to use external osc
10:14 PM enhering: You can install AVRDUDE and have a choice.
10:14 PM enhering: Now I use internal osc until all my problems are solved
10:15 PM enhering: Then, in the future, after the asteroids fall on earth and kill all life here, I'll try external osc
10:15 PM enhering: I'm such an ignorant developer
10:16 PM mark4: you didnt brick them
10:16 PM mark4: you set them to external CLOCK
10:16 PM mark4: you can fix them
10:16 PM enhering: With a high voltage programmer
10:16 PM enhering: Which I aint got
10:16 PM mark4: avr dragon
10:16 PM mark4: cheep
10:16 PM enhering: beeeh
10:16 PM enhering: I aint got.
10:17 PM Thrashbarg: mark4: are you in a school or work environment where they won't let you change the operating environment? Why don't you have a choice?
10:17 PM enhering: People always have a choice
10:17 PM mark4: its a work environment where atmel stuido is mandated
10:17 PM Thrashbarg: yeah thought so
10:17 PM enhering: install avrdude on a pen drive
10:17 PM Thrashbarg: enhering: he'll need to install the driver too
10:18 PM Thrashbarg: I assume Windows is the OS of choice...
10:18 PM enhering: probably win7
10:18 PM enhering: you can run linux on a pendrive
10:18 PM Thrashbarg: I'm on Win 7 here hehe
10:19 PM enhering: working over win is soooo depressing
10:19 PM mark4: windows is the only place where atmel stupidio will run :/
10:19 PM mark4: win 7 pro
10:19 PM Thrashbarg: yeah
10:19 PM enhering: see?
10:19 PM enhering: pro is better.
10:19 PM mark4: yea im a gentoo user
10:19 PM mark4: i would run this in wine if it would run in wine
10:19 PM Thrashbarg: mark4: http://www.atmel.com/webdoc/atmelstudio/atmelstudio.programmingdialog.fuses.html <-- I'm looking at this. Is this what you see?
10:20 PM Thrashbarg: No I don't have it installed :P
10:20 PM enhering: I do all I need with a makefile and avrdude
10:20 PM enhering: the only software I bought for programming is sublimetext
10:21 PM mark4: i know HOW to change the fuse settings. i do not know whcih of the 45 or so utterly obfuscated options, ALL of which state 8mhz... i should take
10:21 PM mark4: i use sublime text!
10:21 PM enhering: oh!
10:21 PM Thrashbarg: heh
10:21 PM mark4: but not on this project :/
10:21 PM enhering: use the fuse calculator Thrashbarg pointed
10:21 PM Thrashbarg: mark4: http://www.engbedded.com/fusecalc/ <-- put the details in here. It'll update the page as you change settings
10:22 PM mark4: actually i think i can set the hex values for the fuses but im a bit nervous about doing that
10:22 PM enhering: I would be
10:22 PM Thrashbarg: yeah
10:23 PM enhering: I always check three or four times before bricking a chip
10:23 PM enhering: Get off the car and walk
10:23 PM mark4: this doesnt help me, do NOT want to change ***ANY*** fuses except the ones related to clock selection
10:23 PM enhering: Try internal first.
10:23 PM Thrashbarg: yeah there's nothing there to change the CLKSEL fuses
10:24 PM enhering: TEst stuff
10:24 PM mark4: this page is showing 284376587236489572349 fuses. i have 5 or 6 in atmel studio
10:24 PM enhering: Choose one of them, then
10:24 PM enhering: You can type the atmel studio values on fuse calculator and it will update the options
10:24 PM mark4: fuck no. im not shooting in the dark lol
10:25 PM rue_house: that would be a signed long long where someone should have just used an unsigned char
10:25 PM Thrashbarg: heh
10:25 PM enhering: mark you have to choose something!
10:25 PM rue_house: and possibly a struct pointer that isn't working right
10:25 PM Thrashbarg: mark4: if you enter the current fuse bytes from Studio into the fuse calculator page, the page will change to reflect what you currently have
10:26 PM mark4: yes i did that
10:26 PM enhering: I tried to say that, but without success
10:26 PM enhering: Use linux on a pendrive.
10:26 PM Thrashbarg: lol
10:27 PM Thrashbarg: mark4: then if you make the changes to CKSEL and copy the bytes back, to see what it looks like.
10:27 PM enhering: destroy the card! That is the best option!
10:27 PM mark4: but i dont know what clksel to use
10:27 PM enhering: pick one!
10:27 PM Thrashbarg: I don't mean program it, just see what changes in the IDE
10:27 PM mark4: there is NOTHING in either the datashee or this page or the ide for using an external 16mhz xtal
10:28 PM enhering: Can't a 16Mhz crystal be excited at 8Mhz?
10:28 PM Thrashbarg: it lists 8MHz up at the end of the list
10:29 PM mark4: ok now im confused. after entering my fuse values it shows on chip debug disabled.
10:29 PM mark4: which its not
10:30 PM mark4: i dont see anything about 8mhz and up
10:30 PM Thrashbarg: in the pull down list, just under "Features", at the end of the list
10:30 PM mark4: unless 8.0-BLANK means that
10:30 PM Thrashbarg: yes
10:30 PM mark4: fucking stupid people
10:30 PM Thrashbarg: 8.0- MHz, i.e. 8 to whatever
10:31 PM mark4: thats like saying "from 1 to" is saing "From 1 to infinity"
10:31 PM mark4: makes no sense
10:31 PM enhering: and beyond
10:31 PM mark4: and what startup time should i select?
10:32 PM mark4: actually. if i set the fuse to the internal osc can software change it to external osc?
10:32 PM Thrashbarg: I don't think so
10:32 PM mark4: ugh
10:32 PM mark4: k
10:32 PM mark4: ty
10:32 PM enhering: But you can set it to external later
10:32 PM mark4: does this device have a "clock is stable" bit?
10:32 PM Thrashbarg: yeah
10:33 PM mark4: that i should wait on at boot?
10:33 PM mark4: you just gave conflicting answers
10:33 PM Thrashbarg: that's what the startup time setting does
10:33 PM enhering: clock is stable has something to do with startup time, if i do remember well
10:33 PM Thrashbarg: "yeah" was directed at enhering sorry :P
10:33 PM mark4: your saying the hardware is going to hold the CPU in reset for this much time and only then start executing instructions?
10:34 PM mark4: my xmega has a software selectable clock and a bit saying clock is stable
10:34 PM mark4: this IS software selectable?
10:34 PM Thrashbarg: I don't think the ATmega has that ability... at least not that I've heard >_>
10:34 PM enhering: That is what I remember. For some kind of crystals, full swing, needs more time to stabilize before the cpu starts monitoring its quality, or something.
10:35 PM mark4: well i picked the longest startup time just to be safe
10:36 PM enhering: atmega fuses can only be set by the programmer, as much as I know
10:36 PM mark4: no. i cannto use this to program these flags. for a set bit it shows a white box. for a clear bit it shows a white box. i have N O idea what bits are set :(
10:36 PM mark4: there is no difference in this IDE fuse programmer to differentiate between a set and a clear bit
10:36 PM enhering: 0s are programmed bits.
10:37 PM enhering: 1's are unprogrmmed. This is the most confusing part for me
10:37 PM mark4: it does not show a 0
10:37 PM enhering: I hate IDEs.
10:37 PM mark4: it shows a white box that looks like it should be dark for 1 and light for 0. its light for both
10:37 PM mark4: 1 being unprogrammed = normal for flash bits
10:38 PM mark4: i hate ALL development tools other than the ones i write myself... and sublime text :)
10:38 PM mark4: with a passion i hate the GNU development tools
10:38 PM Thrashbarg: agreed
10:38 PM mark4: so for linux i wrote my own compiler (not a c compiler)
10:38 PM mark4: my compiler compiles over 4 megabytes of source code per second
10:38 PM Thrashbarg: jeez heh
10:39 PM enhering: never heard of someone who have written their own compiler. Amazing!
10:39 PM Thrashbarg: mark4: I'm looking at a video of someone doing what you want to do... have you tried making the Fuse select window bigger?
10:39 PM mark4: yea, for about 1/100 of a second the little white boxes have a check mark in them
10:39 PM enhering: avrdude works well. You put it on a makefile and the magic works.
10:40 PM mark4: https://github.com/mark4th <-- two of my compilers
10:40 PM enhering: mark4, what does your compiler compiles? Which language?
10:40 PM mark4: not allowed to use that
10:40 PM mark4: forth
10:40 PM Thrashbarg: Forth! :D
10:41 PM mark4: when not working on THIS garbage im working on a forth for the 32u4 AND the xmega256a3bu
10:41 PM mark4: two diff compilers
10:41 PM mark4: but those are on hold and im borrowing my 32u4 for this project
10:41 PM enhering: what is fourth?
10:41 PM mark4: the check boxes do not show the current state of the fuses. they are all blank
10:41 PM enhering: I'm such an ignorant jerk
10:42 PM Thrashbarg: Forth is a stack oriented programming language
10:42 PM mark4: forth is a programming language invented by chuck moore who also co-invented the way all modern cpu's are clocked internally
10:42 PM enhering: I'll need two hours to understand what you've written...
10:42 PM mark4: forth has one of the fastest development times and lowest memory sizes. compiled forth is 100 times smaller than compiled c for any non trivial application and about half the size of the equiv asm
10:43 PM Thrashbarg: yup
10:43 PM Thrashbarg: hehe
10:43 PM BongoShaftsbury: i ordered my parts
10:43 PM mark4: yes. more space efficient than asm
10:43 PM enhering: amazing!
10:43 PM mark4: most people take one look at forth and go screamin for mamma
10:43 PM Thrashbarg: mark4: https://youtu.be/BYhDK_lqbLs?t=31s <-- I'm looking at this, right here, where he makes the window a little bigger to reveal more fuse options
10:43 PM mark4: : fib 0 1 rot 1+ 1 do tuck + loop nip ;
10:43 PM Thrashbarg: : forth love if honk then ;
10:44 PM mark4: no thats not hte problem
10:44 PM mark4: \see how some of those boxes have check marks in them?
10:44 PM mark4: NONE OF MINE DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10:44 PM Thrashbarg: yup
10:44 PM mark4: they are all empty boxes
10:44 PM Thrashbarg: uh okay :/
10:44 PM mark4: i can click on them they go from empty to empty. click on them again and they go from empty to empty. but i dont trust that its not just the GUI fucking up
10:45 PM Thrashbarg: what happens when you read from the device (trying to get my head around what's happening here)
10:45 PM mark4: yea what i think is happening here is that the check mark is being drawn in white on a white background
10:45 PM mark4: when i read everyhing goes gray and i can see the check marks for about 1/4 of a second
10:46 PM Thrashbarg: "a black panel with a black button which lights up black to let you know you've done it"
10:46 PM enhering: You seem to be clicking with the mouse while the oscilloscope showns different shapes on screen
10:46 PM mark4: oooh
10:46 PM mark4: this might be a bug in the dark theme!
10:46 PM Thrashbarg: enhering: it's just a random video I found
10:47 PM mark4: yup. its a fucking bug in the dark theme
10:47 PM Thrashbarg: yay
10:47 PM mark4: set blue or light and the fuse check mark settings appear
10:47 PM Thrashbarg: okay
10:47 PM enhering: Oh
10:47 PM mark4: ok now that were past that bullshit lol
10:47 PM mark4: time to file a nasty-gram bug report with atmel erm i mean microcrap
10:48 PM enhering: My prayers for you worked!
10:48 PM mark4: lol
10:48 PM mark4: but now im confused still
10:48 PM mark4: because my OCDEN fuse has no check mark next to it
10:48 PM mark4: yet i can debug
10:49 PM enhering: I read something about this somewhere...
10:49 PM Thrashbarg: so OCDEN isn't programmed, so debugging is enabled... I think >_>
10:49 PM mark4: my jtagen IS enabled
10:49 PM Thrashbarg: ...ah
10:49 PM mark4: but ocden is not. maybe thats a correct setting
10:49 PM enhering: soo confusing
10:49 PM Thrashbarg: yeah
10:50 PM mark4: no so NOW i have to set theme to non dark to change fuses
10:50 PM enhering: If I had to use windows I would have quit the job
10:50 PM mark4: and back again later
10:50 PM mark4: $$$$$
10:51 PM enhering: Not enough $$$ in this planet to convince me
10:51 PM Thrashbarg: too much IMO... :P
10:51 PM enhering: Worse than windows, much worse, is LabView.
10:52 PM mark4: when you have not worked as a coder for 7 years and gon from 80k in the bank to $900 in the bank... you make some choices
10:52 PM enhering: kill yourself.
10:52 PM enhering: Not use windows.
10:52 PM Thrashbarg: :/
10:52 PM enhering: :)
10:53 PM enhering: Sorry.
10:54 PM enhering: I wonder why some companies constrain so much people's creativity
10:55 PM Thrashbarg: indeed
10:56 PM enhering: worse, muchh worse, are big research centers using labview
10:56 PM mark4: uart still not txing or rxing
10:56 PM enhering: programming graphically, without a begin or an end, or a logical sequence
10:57 PM enhering: lower the baud rate, mark4. Dont you have a logic analyzer?
10:57 PM mark4: i dont have any of that stuff
10:57 PM mark4: im working at home
10:57 PM Tom_itx: saleaes rock
10:58 PM mark4: time to guzzle a bottle of JD or 2
10:58 PM mark4: or 3
10:58 PM mark4: :)
10:58 PM mark4: that shud solve this entire problem :)
10:58 PM enhering: do you have a usb to serial board?
10:58 PM mark4: i have a USB to serial cable
10:59 PM enhering: is it hooked to your chip? Same ground?
10:59 PM enhering: rx and tx are not crossed?
10:59 PM Tom_itx: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/avr/rs232_rx_test/
10:59 PM Tom_itx: there's tx rx for something
10:59 PM mark4: lol i just pulled off those wires and swapped thjem to test
10:59 PM enhering: 9600 baud, 8n1
10:59 PM mark4: let me see
10:59 PM Tom_itx: forget what it was for now
10:59 PM mark4: its 9600 8n1 yes
10:59 PM Tom_itx: interrupt driven iirc
10:59 PM mark4: hang on
10:59 PM mark4: yes interrupt
11:00 PM Tom_itx: ^^
11:00 PM Tom_itx: ahh 48 88 168 328 series
11:00 PM enhering: check rx and tx. should be crossed.
11:00 PM mark4: nope, still no tx and rx after swapping them
11:01 PM Tom_itx: what chip?
11:01 PM enhering: 32u4
11:01 PM mark4: atmega32u4
11:01 PM Tom_itx: you could adapt that code i bet
11:01 PM enhering: your code is working?
11:01 PM Tom_itx: fairly easy
11:01 PM enhering: can u upload a working code?
11:02 PM mark4: i have an avr dragon
11:02 PM mark4: you have working code for a 32u4 i can test
11:02 PM mark4: it maybe isnt the u4 thats fscking up
11:02 PM mark4: remember... im in windows....
11:02 PM enhering: nope. i use 328p
11:03 PM Tom_itx: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/avr/atmega32U4/rs232test/
11:03 PM Tom_itx: that's tx only on the u4
11:04 PM enhering: if you have a terminal connected and it is set, windows should not mess with the port
11:04 PM Tom_itx: tested or it wouldn't be there
11:04 PM mark4: im going to mumper my cables tx and rx
11:04 PM mark4: see if shit works
11:05 PM mark4: yes i get echo
11:05 PM enhering: i love this channel. So many enlightened people here. I always learn a lot
11:06 PM enhering: probably your code then
11:06 PM mark4: lol actually. erem. this is not "my code" lol
11:06 PM mark4: but we will gloss over that a bit
11:08 PM enhering: Tom_itx: What does itx mean?
11:08 PM Tom_itx: it was an itx i'm running on
11:09 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
11:10 PM enhering: the channel nicknames are always a mystery to me. English is such a rich language
11:12 PM mark4: ok sooo
11:13 PM mark4: i have this rs232 to ttl converter with wiggly LEDs on it for tx/rx
11:13 PM Tom_L: what u4 board do you have?
11:13 PM mark4: the adafruit breakout
11:14 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/atmega32u4/atmega32u4_1.jpg
11:14 PM Tom_L: mine
11:14 PM mark4: no the same board but similar
11:15 PM Tom_L: better not be the same, i did that one
11:15 PM Tom_L: they're all similar
11:15 PM mark4: lol
11:15 PM Tom_L: just wanted to see how hard it was to hand solder qfn
11:16 PM enhering: rework station, Tom_L?
11:16 PM Tom_L: weller iron
11:16 PM enhering: I do my solders with hot air
11:17 PM Tom_L: i have a toaster oven too
11:17 PM enhering: https://hackaday.io/project/11724-yauvc-yet-another-unmanned-vehicle-controller
11:17 PM enhering: I cannot imagine how to do thst with a weller iron
11:17 PM enhering: that
11:18 PM Tom_L: tqfp?
11:18 PM Tom_L: that's easy
11:18 PM enhering: how did you reach the qfn terminals?
11:18 PM Tom_L: not as easy :)
11:18 PM Tom_L: used the trace and alot of flux
11:18 PM enhering: surely not
11:18 PM mark4: i like the adafruit solfer flow hack :)
11:19 PM enhering: this can make a lot of thermal gradients over the chip
11:19 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTiny_Mkii_batch.jpg
11:19 PM Tom_L: i did the first couple hundred of those by hand
11:19 PM Tom_L: then started using the toaster oven
11:20 PM enhering: doing that with iron is not easy. Hot air is much easier
11:20 PM Tom_L: i had pretty good luck
11:20 PM enhering: you are pretty skilled.
11:20 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/batch1.jpg
11:20 PM Tom_L: those were oven baked
11:21 PM enhering: i use a 850-a rework station.
11:21 PM mark4: i think my wiring of the uart pins is whats wrong. change of plan. put 32u4 away now program same app on my xmega256a3bu
11:22 PM enhering: I have a working library for the 328 on the controller project. Is is open source.
11:22 PM enhering: the uart works well with it
11:22 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/toaster_oven/toaster_oven_index.php
11:22 PM Tom_L: oven project
11:22 PM enhering: Check the repo if you need it
11:23 PM enhering: Very nice, Tom_L
11:25 PM enhering: Pretty good solders, iron and oven backed
11:25 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/Boxes/box_batch.jpg
11:25 PM Tom_L: i did the boxes on my cnc
11:25 PM Tom_L: for a 'boxed' version of the same board
11:26 PM enhering: You milled the material?
11:26 PM Tom_L: yeah
11:26 PM enhering: which material?
11:26 PM Tom_L: hammond enclosures but i milled the slots
11:26 PM enhering: plastic block?
11:26 PM Tom_L: DK sells em
11:27 PM Thrashbarg_ is now known as Thrashbarg
11:27 PM enhering: nice
11:27 PM enhering: well done
11:27 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/Boxes/milling1.jpg
11:27 PM enhering: high attention to detail
11:27 PM Tom_L: there's a youtube of it somewhere...
11:27 PM enhering: very nice
11:28 PM enhering: i have a shapeoko2 that I modified to use a laser
11:28 PM enhering: plus a few other upgrades
11:28 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CEqokrtFI4&feature=youtu.be
11:29 PM Tom_L: running linuxcnc
11:29 PM enhering: 4 axis?
11:29 PM Tom_L: 3
11:29 PM enhering: 4th is manual?
11:30 PM Tom_L: there isn't a 4th axis on it
11:30 PM enhering: Can't you change the head inclination?
11:30 PM Tom_L: yeah but i never have
11:30 PM Tom_L: i got that one for the reach
11:30 PM Tom_L: over the regular sherline
11:31 PM Tom_L: to do over, i'd have gotten a larger steel mill
11:31 PM Tom_L: it's earned it's keep though
11:32 PM enhering: nice tool
11:32 PM Tom_L: i've since modified it quite a bit
11:32 PM enhering: that is the way
11:33 PM Tom_L: modified the stock spindle control to do reverse, added an encoder to it so i could do rigid tapping etc
11:33 PM Tom_L: just to see if i could
11:33 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g99lUtjLfMU&feature=youtu.be
11:35 PM enhering: Programming tapping is, definetely, not easy
11:35 PM Tom_L: it's a little small to be doing that
11:35 PM Tom_L: but it does work
11:36 PM enhering: How did you set the z speed?
11:36 PM Tom_L: z is in sync with the spindle
11:36 PM Tom_L: so it will follow no matter the speed
11:36 PM enhering: It must be very well calibrated to work well
11:37 PM Tom_L: time to call it a night here...
11:37 PM enhering: mechanical sync or software sync?
11:37 PM Tom_L: software
11:37 PM enhering: me too
11:37 PM enhering: well done.
11:37 PM Tom_L: it's all part of linuxcnc
11:38 PM enhering: very nice
11:38 PM enhering: good night for you, guys
11:39 PM day_ is now known as daey
11:48 PM FrankD__ is now known as FrankD
11:59 PM mark4: i wish the HELL atmel never developed ASF
11:59 PM mark4: it should be called OSF obfuscated