#avr Logs
Jun 22 2017
#avr Calendar
12:29 AM rue_house: ouch
12:38 AM Casper: rue_house: don't touch something you just welded... it's a bit... hot...
12:39 AM rue_house: often hot enough to fry the first layer of skin, but leave you without so much as a blister, the reflex is from the smell of burnign flesh and not the heat
12:40 AM rue_house: dont cut towards yourself, dont hammer towards your crotch
12:41 AM Casper: for me, the reflex is the sound
12:41 AM Casper: the "tss" come before the smell
12:48 AM rue_house: so, what was the person using the tlc 5940 for do we know?
12:48 AM polprog: me?
12:48 AM rue_house: yea!
12:48 AM polprog: :D
12:48 AM rue_house: lights/ servos/ motors?
12:49 AM polprog: i'll print the negatives and etch the board today
12:49 AM polprog: lights for now
12:49 AM rue_house: k
12:49 AM rue_house: I have a servo loop controller (not hobby servos) I'm using one for
12:52 AM rue_house: I'm just using two channels per motor, one per side, running half bridges
12:52 AM rue_house: I lock one side to 0% and put the pwm on the other side
12:52 AM polprog: looks like tgat tlc is nit just for leds
12:52 AM polprog: that*
12:52 AM rue_house: I'm just using it as a pwm slave
12:53 AM rue_house: I'm looking for a schematic for my setup
12:53 AM rue_house: most of the code I could find for it, manually clocked the pwm pulses to it
12:53 AM rue_house: which is garbage, you might as well make your own softpwm
12:53 AM polprog: i think i will do a timer irq for the pulses
12:54 AM polprog: and try to find a way to sensibly handle 12 bit values in assembly
12:54 AM polprog: i guess its just gonna be two bytes...
12:54 AM polprog: a bit of modified 595 code i wrote previously
12:55 AM polprog: and the rest would be higher level, c
12:56 AM rue_house: when you look at the instructions generated by that code I wrote, you realize there isn't much to gain from assembler
12:56 AM rue_house: lose a few pushes' n pops
12:57 AM polprog: ill see
12:57 AM rue_house: yea, I have a clock with a divider running the 5940
12:57 AM rue_house: looking for schematic
12:59 AM rue_house: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/images/p1080350.jpg
12:59 AM rue_house: jist anyhow
01:00 AM rue_house: iirc its a CD4060, its got a 4Mhz? crystal, there is a 4Mhz tap used and the /16 line?
01:00 AM rue_house: which is used to tap the reset of the 5940 and signal an interrupt for the avr to reload the values
01:00 AM polprog: so youre clocking it from a crystal?
01:00 AM rue_house: the avr reloads the values before the next clock
01:00 AM rue_house: yes
01:01 AM rue_house: all the avr has to do it reload the values into the 5940 when interrupted
01:01 AM polprog: nice
01:01 AM rue_house: I'm still looking for a diagram
01:01 AM rue_house: dispite the comments in that code, this works
01:02 AM polprog: i was thinking about clocking it independently from the avr
01:02 AM rue_house: the project is stalled because my current sensors aren't working
01:02 AM polprog: but a normal irq giving a pulse is not much load
01:04 AM rue_house: oooh, that starts to expalin, I'm using a mega8, not 88 that would be partly why I couldn't find the code for it
01:07 AM rue_house: bah, to hell with it, I think I know where the papaer copy might be
01:09 AM polprog: heh, backups, backups
01:10 AM polprog: important thing
01:12 AM rue_house: I was going to say the schematics didn't hit the electronic media, but they barely hit the paper media
01:12 AM rue_house: I dont have a proper schematic
01:12 AM rue_house: but I do have my chip interconnect diagrams
01:13 AM rue_house: of them, I think only one is usefull
01:13 AM rue_house: *this* is the connection diagram for the divider chip
01:13 AM rue_house: ...
01:14 AM rue_house: geez, been a while since I unlaoded the camera,...
01:15 AM rue_house: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/images/p1090051.jpg
01:15 AM rue_house: tell me if you need it bigger
01:16 AM rue_house: the 12 bit carry causes a 'glitch pulse' that simotaniously hits the blank, xlat, and the avr irq
01:16 AM rue_house: wow was I annoyed that the counter in the 5940 dosn't just rollover
01:18 AM rue_house: if you were to set up a 16 bit counter to a divide of 12 bits, and a pin that toggled on every count pulse, you might be able to do it without the extra chip
01:18 AM rue_house: 4060 is cheap tho
01:19 AM rue_house: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10PCS-CD4060BM-SOP16-CD4060-SOP-CD4060BM96-SMD-new-and-original-IC-free-shipping/32529958195.html
01:19 AM rue_house: thats not a good price
01:20 AM rue_house: you get the idea
01:22 AM rue_house: polprog, ?
01:23 AM rue_house: lost...
01:24 AM polprog: thanks
01:25 AM polprog: that 4060 looks like a useful chip
01:28 AM polprog: rue_house: ill check how it performs with the timer interrupt, and if its not usable, ill make some clock gen, i think i have a 7400 series up down counter chip, might use that in place of the 4060
01:29 AM polprog: ok, off to school. rehearsal today, end of the year tomorrow
01:32 AM rue_house: it'll only be 4 bit if its bidir
01:32 AM rue_house: the 74393 is the only 16 bit binary one, in the usual series anyhow
01:32 AM polprog: yeah, its 4 bit..
01:33 AM polprog: hmm
01:33 AM polprog: ill find a way :D
01:33 AM rue_house: I just need the uC for doing the servo loop calcs, so I had to offload all the timing
01:34 AM polprog: i guess that is critical
01:34 AM rue_house: I used a small switching supply for the 5V, and the noise from it completely screws up all my current sensing
01:34 AM rue_house: I kinda used a board thats too small
01:35 AM rue_house: detecting current from a motor thats being fed from a pwm signal also presents its challanges
01:35 AM polprog: lowpass or sonething more?
01:38 AM LiaoTao: polprog: It may be that the required filtering range requires parts that aren't compatible with the rest of the board, I suppose
01:38 AM LiaoTao: As far as size and stuff goes
01:53 AM rue_house: and, size problems
01:59 AM rue_house: I'm still thrilled with my 4 transistor pwm genorator
03:08 AM remkooo1 is now known as remkooo
06:17 AM Lambda_Aurigae: The first product Motorola started to develop was a record player for automobiles. At that time the most known player on the market was the Victrola, so they called themselves Motorola.
06:21 AM Thrashbarg: heh radiola... pianola... moviola...
06:22 AM Thrashbarg: hyperbola xD
06:43 AM NoHitWonder^: where can i get ATMEGA328PB's in tqfp-32 package
06:44 AM NoHitWonder^: they seem to be on order at mouser
06:44 AM NoHitWonder^: isnt that a pretty popular chip, why they dont have it in stock
06:48 AM Jartza: how about digikey?
07:01 AM Emil: NoHitWonder^: digikey?
07:01 AM Emil: Matey do you even google?
07:01 AM Emil: Tme/Digikey/Mouesr/Farnell/Arrow/China
07:02 AM NoHitWonder^: non-stock aty digikey too
07:05 AM Jartza: http://i.imgur.com/fbk2gVV.png
07:06 AM Jartza: Greentree has 60000 in stock, LOL
07:06 AM Jartza: they have bought the whole stock?
07:06 AM NoHitWonder^: thanks!
07:06 AM Jartza: NoHitWonder^: for future, https://octopart.com
07:06 AM Jartza: that'll help ;)
07:07 AM NoHitWonder^: shit, i have to bounce, thanks for the help
07:07 AM NoHitWonder^: -->
08:01 AM polprog: Jartza: what's that site?
08:01 AM polprog: nvm
08:22 AM polprog: https://puu.sh/wrjRp/22ce53486e.jpg
08:23 AM LeoNerd: So.. progress on my "finding a slightly larger screen" issue. It seems that nobody makes OLEDs anywhere larger than 128x64 / 1.3", that aren't full enormous TVs. But blacklit TFTs seem to come in a variety of sizes around there
08:23 AM LeoNerd: E.g. a 2" 256x160 screen, for about £5 on eBay
08:23 AM LeoNerd: SPI
08:39 AM cehteh: i have a battery charger with a nice color IPS panel, i wonder where one get those and what they cost (well readable in sunlight too)
08:40 AM cehteh: https://www.stefansliposhop.de/Ladegeraete-Netzteile/ISDT/SLS-ISDT-SMART-CHARGER-Q6-Plus::1750.html dat one
09:18 AM polprog: keep your fingers crossed, etching
09:21 AM rue_house: toner transfer, ickg, did you get it in less than 4 tries?
10:25 AM polprog: toner transfer
10:25 AM polprog: it's... 4th try. now etching with the sulphate
10:25 AM polprog: im starting to get a bit impatient
10:25 AM polprog: :P
10:35 AM polprog: this is th alst time i do it...
10:35 AM polprog: last*
10:35 AM polprog: any good, fast boardmakers?
10:37 AM LeoNerd: Most services I've seen have a fast option if you're in a hurry. You pay for it though
10:37 AM polprog: yeah, the one i use is 7 days normal 3 days hurry
10:37 AM polprog: 2x the price tho
10:37 AM polprog: :/
10:37 AM polprog: is 7 days fast in the boardmakers world?
10:40 AM daey: as a china pcb fab user... damn 7 days :o
10:42 AM LeoNerd: I'm usually juggling all sorts of different personal projects around. So I just cycle a different project into the dead-time waiting on a board
10:42 AM LeoNerd: I don't really mind the delays most of the time
10:45 AM polprog: good idea
10:45 AM polprog: i should make final chnages to the tiny asm eval board and send both boards to fab...
10:48 AM Emil: polprog: if you diy
10:48 AM Emil: polprog: use uv
10:48 AM Emil: toner transfer is shiiiit ":D"
10:49 AM LeoNerd: I can't imagine ever DIY'ing PCBs, unless there was a nice way to do double-sided plated throughhole with solder mask on both sides
10:49 AM LeoNerd: And that's four layers plus two drilling stages that need to be aligned
10:49 AM LeoNerd: And fuck that if I'm aligning all those myself
10:49 AM Emil: DIY pcbs are nice
10:49 AM Emil: Alignment is not thay hard
10:49 AM Emil: but vias
10:49 AM polprog: nice but PITA
10:49 AM Emil: vias are annoying as fuck
10:50 AM * LeoNerd currently awaiting a 4layer copper stack from oshpark :)
10:50 AM LeoNerd: Noway I'd make /that/ at home
10:50 AM Emil: nice
10:50 AM Emil: I should try my hand at a 4 layer one
10:50 AM LeoNerd: It's my first one. Am keen to see how it comes out
10:50 AM Emil: If only things like micro vias and blind/buried vias were possible cheaply
10:52 AM polprog: what do you do on 4 layers..., gnd top/bot, vcc and a free layer inside?
10:52 AM LeoNerd: Mmm. oshpark don't do blind/burried. seeedstudio have an option for it
10:52 AM Emil: polprog: routing
10:52 AM polprog: yeha
10:52 AM polprog: im talking about fills
10:52 AM Emil: polprog: routing can become a paib
10:52 AM LeoNerd: polprog: The traditional stackup is that the outer layers have signals and the inner two have power, with lots of vias for that
10:52 AM Emil: LeoNerd: I've heard the other way
10:52 AM LeoNerd: My 4layer is a bit odd, because I needed to save most of one of the outer layers for configuration jumpers
10:53 AM Emil: LeoNerd: you have signals in tve middle
10:53 AM Emil: and gnd power on outer
10:53 AM LeoNerd: Emil: nono, you want power planes inside. They act as nice shields between the signals, and also by putting a VCC plane next to a GND plane on the inside of the stackup, you've made yourself a decoupling capacitor
10:54 AM Emil: true
10:54 AM LeoNerd: Power on the outside I could imagine might be useful for some high-current low-frequency PSU designs or such..
10:54 AM LeoNerd: Outer layers have better thermal properties
10:55 AM polprog: my board fab makes double sided for less than 5 GBP/dm2
10:55 AM LeoNerd: Yah.. seeedstudio are $4.90 for a basic 2layer 10cm x 10cm
10:55 AM LeoNerd: But annoyingly only if you opt for leaded HASL. Leadfree HASL costs $11.90 :(
10:57 AM polprog: who needs leadfree
10:57 AM polprog: srsly, for one off and prototypes...
10:57 AM polprog: nonsense
10:57 AM LeoNerd: It causes horrible soldering intermetallics if you mix leadfree and leaded solder in one place though
10:57 AM LeoNerd: Which would therefore mean my using leaded solder on the boards
10:57 AM LeoNerd: And I don't currently have any
10:57 AM polprog: luckily my solder paste is leaded as is my solder wire, so no apin there
10:58 AM polprog: cant you like go to a shop?
10:58 AM polprog: cmon
10:59 AM polprog: its neraly etched now... the biggest pain the ironing fun to get the toner on the board
11:03 AM Emil: :D
11:06 AM polprog: i need to experiment with different kind of paper
11:09 AM JanC_ is now known as JanC
11:12 AM polprog: https://puu.sh/wrr52/88966b333e.jpg
11:12 AM polprog: a couple fixes with a sharp knife, kynar and done
11:12 AM polprog: (4 effing hours)
11:12 AM LeoNerd: Mmm.. knife + kynar patches to PCBs :)
11:12 AM LeoNerd: My very first board needed that
11:14 AM polprog: it's my 2nd home etched... 5th made physically
11:41 AM polprog: how do you like this 2k resistor? https://puu.sh/wrsoT/cddf375667.jpg
11:41 AM psf: :O
11:42 AM LeoNerd: :)
11:42 AM LeoNerd: I've done that before
11:42 AM LeoNerd: Oh relatedly: does anyone know a good {website, phone app, etc...} for suggesting resistor networks to build odd values?
11:43 AM LeoNerd: So e.g. I could say "I want 354 ohms, I have E12 values" and it would suggest how to make it
11:43 AM psf: it's quite a piece of art (that resistor image).
11:43 AM LeoNerd: Yes; I can imagine it took some work to get them to stand up like that
11:44 AM e: LeoNerd: i don't know one. i feel like it wouldn't be hard to do
11:44 AM polprog: i think ive seen one on google play
11:44 AM e: but it's not hard to do in one's head for the precisions one typically wants
11:44 AM polprog: just search for resistor calculator
11:46 AM LeoNerd: I've seen lots of those
11:47 AM LeoNerd: Typically those are playtoys for people who can't remember colour codes
11:47 AM LeoNerd: You put in colours and it tells you the value of a resistor, or vice versa
11:47 AM LeoNerd: Or some of the fancier ones let you type in multiple numbers and it tells you the combined parallel resistance
11:47 AM Emil: polprog:
11:47 AM Emil: just move to uv etching
11:47 AM Emil: it takes 20 minutes
11:47 AM Emil: to get a board
11:47 AM Emil: polprog: you saw my previous image?
11:48 AM LeoNerd: e: OK; so solve theabove problem in your head
11:48 AM e: so far i have not spotted it
11:48 AM Emil: Hmm
11:48 AM Emil: I wonder if i should try
11:49 AM LeoNerd: "I want 354 ohms, I have E12 values"
11:49 AM Emil: Getting a result is super easyh
11:49 AM e: oh right
11:49 AM Emil: by getting a result that's nice to execute is another matter
11:49 AM Emil: but*
11:49 AM LeoNerd: If you've not got an answer by about .... mmm... *now* then you're slower than a phone app would be
11:49 AM LeoNerd: So therefore I vote the app would be quicker for me
11:50 AM Emil: And then there's another matter of getting close enough within the result
11:50 AM Emil: like 354, within 5%
11:51 AM e: i have a guess but i don't want to say without double-checking in case i embarrass myself
11:51 AM LeoNerd: Yah.. the ideal app I had in mind would give a big long list
11:51 AM e: i think giving constraints would be nice too
11:51 AM Emil: And then it's also a question of how accurate your resistors are
11:51 AM e: like whether you are allowed both series and parallel
11:51 AM LeoNerd: It would show the best 2-resistor series and parallel it could manage, then the best 4 3-resistor networks, then the best 8 4-resistor, etc...
11:51 AM LeoNerd: Ordered by closeness to the result
11:51 AM LeoNerd: It could do all of this within miliseconds
11:51 AM e: why not give it the constraints you want
11:51 AM Emil: Oh yeah it wouldn't take long at all
11:52 AM LeoNerd: and Ic ould look and decide "well knowign my board layout I'd prefer series/parallel/whatever and oh look that one looks good enough"
11:52 AM LeoNerd: Usually I don't have many constraints though, so it's nice to be flexible and offer lots of choices
11:52 AM LeoNerd: My point here is simply that frankly, yes, I *could* do this in my head, but it would be a lot of boring number crunching
11:52 AM LeoNerd: I own many electronnic devices that were invented for the express purpose of performing boring number crunching for me
11:52 AM LeoNerd: lets use those
11:54 AM e: yeah, i think that is reasonable
11:54 AM e: my guess was 7.5*7.5 but looking it seems like that is pretty crap
11:55 AM Emil: eh?
11:56 AM e: LeoNerd: i think dialling in tolerances and "i don't want resistors in series" and things would be nice
11:56 AM LeoNerd: Yah
11:56 AM polprog: Emil: i guess i will have to
11:57 AM polprog: what image
11:57 AM polprog: ?
11:57 AM Emil: similar to that you have there
11:57 AM Emil: the resistors
12:02 PM Emil: Can anyone recommend good solder paste tips
12:02 PM Emil: ?
12:02 PM Emil: The dispenser heads/needles
12:03 PM LeoNerd: I've taken to using stencils always with paste now, so the dispenser needle isn't very critical
12:03 PM Emil: That requires ordering a stencil for each design
12:03 PM Emil: I find applying the paste quick and quite relaxing
12:09 PM polprog: yeah
12:09 PM LeoNerd: I've never managed to apply it very neatly
12:09 PM polprog: i have a tip (syringe of paste) which has the diameter aprroximately of .25 mm
12:10 PM polprog: very neat
12:10 PM LeoNerd: With stencil+spreader card it sticks nicely to the pads. Straight out of the dispenser it tends to cling to the needle more than the pad
12:10 PM LeoNerd: and if Itry to distribute it around it makes a terrible mess
12:10 PM polprog: that too, but i slide the needle over
12:13 PM Emil: With the mentioned 0.25mm heads
12:13 PM Emil: its super easy
12:14 PM Emil: I need a microscope
12:14 PM LeoNerd: How do you clean them out afterwards? That's another problem I tend to run into - if you don't clean it out, the paste dries up inside then it's useless
12:14 PM LeoNerd: Or are they one-use?
12:15 PM Emil: You store them in the freezer
12:15 PM Emil: Like the paste
12:15 PM Emil: Cleaning them is hard though, I agree
12:18 PM Tom_itx: ever try to keep paste goin longer than it should?
12:18 PM Tom_itx: after it starts to dry out a bit
12:19 PM Tom_itx: i like my scope...
12:19 PM Tom_itx: only thing i wish is that i'd have gotten a tri instead of binocular
12:19 PM Tom_itx: to take pics
12:20 PM polprog: that was a chineese usb microscope
12:20 PM polprog: neat and useful
12:20 PM Tom_itx: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/scope/scope2.jpg
12:20 PM Emil: polprog: what was?
12:20 PM polprog: can do a die shot of an atmega
12:20 PM Emil: We have that one, too
12:20 PM Emil: At our lab
12:20 PM polprog: Emil: the photo of the resistor
12:20 PM Emil: ah
12:20 PM Emil: nice
12:21 PM Tom_itx: but i don't *need* a tri
12:21 PM polprog: Tom_itx: wow, that's a beast
12:21 PM Tom_itx: 7 x 45 zoom
12:21 PM polprog: :o
12:21 PM Tom_itx: gives you a good area when working on pcb
12:22 PM polprog: for pcb work i prefer my wide-angle camera lens
12:22 PM polprog: (not connected to a camera, just a good magnifier)
12:22 PM Tom_itx: it just looks bigger since i have the head extended past the base for ease
12:22 PM LeoNerd: So far I haven't really done much needing a microscope for soldering. I can do SOIC / SOT-23 / 0603 by naked eye
12:22 PM LeoNerd: The slightly smaller SOT-353 I just sortof take on trust
12:23 PM polprog: but yeah, a scope where you look forward and solder would be useful
12:23 PM polprog: my biggest problem is that i lean while soldering to see better and then my back hurts as hell
12:23 PM Tom_itx: i did some no lead ones once
12:23 PM Tom_itx: forget the package name atm
12:23 PM LeoNerd: I've done 0.5mm pitch DFN8 chips
12:24 PM LeoNerd: Stencil, place, hotair. Naked eye all
12:24 PM polprog: Tom_itx: QFN?
12:24 PM Tom_itx: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/atmega32u4/atmega32u4_1.jpg
12:24 PM polprog: id like to try qfn
12:24 PM Tom_itx: yeah qfn
12:24 PM Tom_itx: still has paste on the board there
12:24 PM LeoNerd: I did a QFN32 sized ATmega328P before as well. That had a bridge 'cause too much solder
12:24 PM LeoNerd: I think KiCad's masks tend to be a bit over-generous
12:25 PM polprog: that pic, it's hand soldered with hot air?
12:25 PM Tom_itx: iron
12:25 PM Tom_itx: no hot air
12:25 PM polprog: yeah, i can do 0603 with my iron
12:25 PM Tom_itx: i tried some 0402 which i can do but i see no reason to
12:25 PM Tom_itx: went back to 0603
12:25 PM polprog: that's just asking for problems
12:25 PM polprog: 0603 is enough
12:26 PM polprog: but 1206 next to it is yugee
12:26 PM polprog: :P
12:26 PM LeoNerd: 0603 is nice because even the cheapest of the 8/8mil fabs can place a trace between the pads
12:26 PM Tom_itx: for one thing my homebrew pick n place kept sucking them into the pump
12:26 PM LeoNerd: 0402 you'd be lucky to find anyone who can
12:26 PM LeoNerd: Hell sometimes I've squeezed *two* traces there
12:26 PM polprog: i have on that board a 1206 resistor and a 0603 led, the difference is flabbergasting
12:26 PM polprog: LeoNerd: on fab or homemade?
12:26 PM Tom_itx: 0804 seem HUGE to me
12:26 PM LeoNerd: Mm... Yeah, you work with SOIC/0603 all day and then pick up a 1206 and think "My god, it's like an elephant"
12:27 PM polprog: lol
12:27 PM Emil: I should try 0402
12:27 PM Tom_itx: naw
12:27 PM Tom_itx: it's hardly worth it really
12:27 PM LeoNerd: polprog: oshpark
12:27 PM polprog: 1206 is still the size class of "i can pick it in my fingers"
12:27 PM LeoNerd: polprog: As I said, I've never bothered home-making a PCB. I just don't see a point
12:27 PM Emil: But it's like half the size
12:27 PM Tom_itx: polprog get some good cheap tweezers
12:27 PM polprog: i have
12:27 PM LeoNerd: 1206 you can practically place with your toes
12:27 PM Tom_itx: i have straight and angled ones
12:27 PM Emil: And board space is expensive :D
12:28 PM polprog: how do you think i place the stuff, and how do you think i did that bodge
12:28 PM Emil: But yeah, 0603 can work as jumpers : )
12:28 PM LeoNerd: Emil: The entire underside of my latest 4layer board is exactly that :)
12:28 PM Emil: LeoNerd: :D
12:28 PM Emil: LeoNerd: 0402?
12:28 PM polprog: i mentioned that 1206 because of perception... it's the smallest size i can classify as big
12:28 PM Emil: Nice
12:28 PM LeoNerd: Lots of 0603 pads, bridging various combinations of pins on the USB-CDC chip to IO pins on the ATmega328PB
12:28 PM Emil: Ah
12:28 PM Emil: The metric 0402 is another thing completely .D
12:29 PM LeoNerd: So people can configure where they want the serial handshaking lines wired up to
12:29 PM polprog: you know, something that you can feel while in your hand
12:29 PM LeoNerd: HAH
12:29 PM Emil: Imperial 01005
12:29 PM LeoNerd: Ohyes, I recall seeing someone who accidentally ordered 0402 metric instead of 0402 imperial
12:29 PM Emil: :DDDDD
12:29 PM LeoNerd: Fun times
12:29 PM polprog: how big is metric 0402
12:29 PM polprog: ?
12:29 PM Emil: "What is this sand I received?"
12:30 PM LeoNerd: Recently I accidentally ordered SOT-353 1G logic chips instead of SOT-23
12:30 PM Tom_itx: kinda disapointing really when you know what you paid for the stuff and all you get is a bag of sand :D
12:30 PM LeoNerd: And easy mistake I think. The size isn't *too* far off. You can just squeeze them onto a breakout board
12:30 PM polprog: well, recently i ordered a VSSOP instead of SSOP
12:30 PM LeoNerd: Yeah that's another easy mistake
12:30 PM polprog: the tcl thing it was :P
12:30 PM LeoNerd: The main trouble I had with my SOT-353 is I was trying to deadbug-wire it on a one-off stripboard prototype
12:31 PM LeoNerd: SOIC-16 or SOT-23 has strong enough legs to do that with
12:31 PM polprog: that's why i had to do the bloody board, i have ssop breakouts/rasterboards
12:31 PM LeoNerd: I managed to rip pins off 3 chips before the 4th one was a success
12:31 PM cehteh: reminds me when i ordered 5 SMD leds from Reichelt: http://public.pipapo.org/GEDC0020.JPG
12:31 PM cehteh: (lighter only for size refrence)
12:31 PM polprog: lol
12:31 PM LeoNerd: Hah. Yes.. Mouser do that to me a lot
12:31 PM LeoNerd: Huge box. Tiny baggie of cut tape
12:31 PM Emil: Haha
12:32 PM Emil: Also digikey
12:32 PM LeoNerd: C'mon guys.. this would easily fit in a small padded envelope like all the cheap eBay types use
12:32 PM Emil: Sometimes it's just easier (and potentially as cheap) to use a bigger package
12:32 PM polprog: yeah
12:32 PM LeoNerd: Oh speaking of cheap eBay
12:32 PM polprog: but thats *unproffesional*
12:32 PM Emil: eh
12:32 PM LeoNerd: There's people there who seem to make a living on reselling from Farnell..
12:32 PM Emil: as long as the stff arrives
12:32 PM Emil: And is in good condition
12:32 PM LeoNerd: I quite often make use of them. they're useful for one-offs
12:32 PM Emil: LeoNerd: not surprised in the least
12:32 PM LeoNerd: Farnell has £20 minimum on orders. But often I want one chip.
12:33 PM polprog: LeoNerd: ive seen neopixels for 20 euros per piece...
12:33 PM LeoNerd: So these sellers seem to have enough quantity to manage that, they just redistribute
12:33 PM Emil: Yeah
12:33 PM Emil: polprog: :DDDDDDD
12:33 PM LeoNerd: I don't mind paying it honestly - even if I'm buying a chip for 2x the price I could at Farnell, it's still overall cheaper
12:33 PM Emil: polprog: you should have immediately shorted him
12:33 PM polprog: some indidan shop OFC
12:33 PM Emil: ah
12:33 PM polprog: shorted?
12:33 PM LeoNerd: It jsut annoys me they go to the trouble of black marker over the order codes on the obviously farnell label on the baggie they send me
12:33 PM polprog: like sell for 15euros/pc?
12:34 PM LeoNerd: Really chaps. I *know* this comes from Farnell. I know what it is and how much from Farnell. You don't have to hide it
12:34 PM polprog: lol, string bags are like 10c per piece
12:34 PM Emil: polprog: well, iirc they are actually called futures when referring to physical shit
12:34 PM Emil: but I find it stupid
12:35 PM polprog: the bags
12:35 PM polprog: ?
12:35 PM Emil: so I just use shorted, which refers to stock
12:35 PM Emil: but yeah
12:35 PM polprog: ah
12:35 PM LeoNerd: Hmm.. shorts and futures
12:35 PM Emil: selling them at a lower price but promising delivery in the future
12:35 PM LeoNerd: Such varied terminology in different industries :)
12:37 PM Emil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QxVJlfEDNQ
12:38 PM robinak is now known as robink
12:38 PM polprog: i think they made them just for mobile phones
12:39 PM polprog: 1:26 wow
12:39 PM BongoShaftsbury_: my project went pretty well
12:40 PM polprog: the graphic lcd?
12:41 PM Emil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UApxAI-QkQg
12:41 PM polprog: Emil: what the hell, that 01005 vid has no soldering video
12:41 PM polprog: he just made a cut >:(
12:41 PM Emil: hm?
12:41 PM Emil: Ah
12:41 PM Emil: but look at that other one
12:41 PM Emil: It shows soldering
12:41 PM polprog: yeah, im looking
12:41 PM Emil: Makes it look like too easy :D
12:42 PM polprog: id go for paste at that moment
12:42 PM Emil: Notice how both sides solder at the same time
12:42 PM BongoShaftsbury_: polprog: yeah
12:42 PM Emil: and yeah, me, too
12:42 PM Tom_itx: it _is_ easy
12:43 PM Tom_itx: a little stupid the way he's going about it though
12:43 PM polprog: yeah, that solder cutting
01:03 PM BongoShaftsbury_: got any ideas for a project on an a3bu?
01:28 PM Emil: a3bu?
01:28 PM Emil: Ah xmega
01:35 PM polprog: suppose i want to make a uv lightbox
01:36 PM polprog: would the wavelength make any difference (as long as it's UV)?
01:43 PM Lambda_Aurigae: depends on what you want to do with it.
01:44 PM polprog: PCB exposure
01:44 PM polprog: UV is a good idea
01:45 PM polprog: ive seen that in action, my friend does pcbs with UV
01:51 PM Emil: polprog: sure
01:51 PM polprog: i can get 365 or 400
01:52 PM Emil: http://www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/uv-sensitive-pcb-material.100438/
01:52 PM Emil: Get both
01:52 PM polprog: 365 would carry more energy...
01:52 PM Emil: Marginally more
01:52 PM Emil: Have both wavelengths
01:52 PM Emil: costs the same
01:52 PM Emil: And you know it'll work
01:54 PM polprog: thanks
01:54 PM polprog: now gotta order the photoresist pbcs!
01:55 PM Lambda_Aurigae: and find out what UV wavelength they require.
01:56 PM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: we just went over that question ;)
01:56 PM polprog: il mix 365 and 400, or even make two switches :P
01:59 PM polprog: huh, 30x20 cm laminate's just 8 eur, single sided
01:59 PM polprog: 35um copper
02:00 PM polprog: hmm, i could also get laquer and make use of the pcbs i have
02:06 PM polprog: how would i go about this? http://www.tme.eu/html/gfx/ramka_14274.jpg
02:07 PM polprog: solder mask in tape
02:07 PM polprog: cant find pdf
02:07 PM Emil: polprog: you apply the tape
02:07 PM Emil: then apply a mask
02:07 PM Emil: then uv
02:07 PM Emil: then peel off the tape
02:07 PM polprog: awesome
02:07 PM Emil: or that's how I think it works having seen some videos
02:07 PM polprog: what the fuck it's 200 euros
02:08 PM polprog: for that roll
02:08 PM polprog: my scope costed this much
02:08 PM polprog: :(
02:12 PM aczid: cool product tho, TIL
02:13 PM polprog: i found some soldermask paint that is like 100 times cheaper
02:13 PM polprog: peters soldermask paint
02:15 PM polprog: i mean c'mon... i print on tracing paper on my inkjet
02:16 PM polprog: this is AWESOME
02:21 PM Lambda_Aurigae: need soldermask you can print directly to copper with the inkjet.
02:22 PM polprog: lol
02:22 PM polprog: hmm
02:22 PM polprog: i could make colorful pcbs then.. like green silkscreen on white
02:23 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I've done photo etch with t-shirt silkscreen stuff.
02:23 PM Lambda_Aurigae: dunno if it would be cheaper or not.
02:24 PM Lambda_Aurigae: but we had all the uv curing system and everything handy at the printing company.
02:24 PM Lambda_Aurigae: and they wanted some custom circuits made.
02:26 PM NoHitWonder^: i came up with an idea for a project where i can use those new attiny chips
02:27 PM NoHitWonder^: the world's shittiest (and quite tiny) distortion pedal for guitar
02:28 PM NoHitWonder^: just a pre-amp before ADC and a buffer amp after the DAC
02:29 PM polprog: so, a bit crusher, essentially
02:30 PM NoHitWonder^: yeah
02:30 PM polprog: CALF plugins have a nice one
02:30 PM polprog: Gameboy music :P
02:30 PM polprog: that could be cool
03:05 PM polprog: it just hit me
03:05 PM polprog: that soldermask paint is essentially offset printing
03:05 PM LeoNerd: Mm?
03:06 PM Emil: https://codisec.com/veles/
03:06 PM polprog: that means i could do many colors, like no conventional fab house does
03:06 PM polprog: real artwork on circuit boards
03:06 PM polprog: absolutely fantastic
03:06 PM LeoNerd: Soldermask is usually applied as a gel film substance that is UV reactive, exposed, then washed off
03:06 PM LeoNerd: I forget if it's positive or negative
03:06 PM polprog: yeah
03:07 PM polprog: it's negative, white (transparent) parts solidify, opaque don't and get washed off
03:07 PM LeoNerd: A single solid colour is easy. Multiple different solid colours on the same board would be hard to get perfect alignment; even a tiny gap would let solder in
03:07 PM polprog: get this. real artwork ! on a circuit board!
03:07 PM LeoNerd: So you'd have to overlap for safety
03:07 PM polprog: 4 colors possible
03:08 PM LeoNerd: Which would lead to ugly dark bands between the areas
03:08 PM polprog: and maybe even more... if you could mix
03:09 PM polprog: i'd say you should make it that theres only a single color layer at any point on the laminate, but there are many layers
03:09 PM polprog: i need to get the kit and mess around
03:20 PM Lambda_Aurigae: http://dangerousprototypes.com/blog/2017/06/22/dirty-cables-cheap-custom-cables-available-now/
03:21 PM Lambda_Aurigae: silkscreen printing the soldermask on would work.
03:22 PM Lambda_Aurigae: you could do multiple colors then UV cure it.
03:29 PM NoHitWonder^: what kind of art youre palnning to do?
03:29 PM NoHitWonder^: ASCII art?
03:36 PM Emil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g-ydhg10UE
03:37 PM Emil: Hiiiighly recommended
03:37 PM Emil: the series
03:37 PM Emil: If the Emperor had a Text-to-Speech Device
04:04 PM LeoNerd: Well this is disappointing. It seems Linear don't make any isolator chips in any packages other than Land or Ballgrid Arrays
04:04 PM LeoNerd: Not a single SOIC, SSOP,.. nothing
04:05 PM LeoNerd: Analog, Maxim, TI, Silabs.. they all do
04:13 PM polprog: [heavy australian accent] nothing for Linear afficionados?
04:24 PM polprog: wow, just noticed kicad has a full polish translation
04:24 PM polprog: nice
05:12 PM renn0xtk9: does avrdude support high voltage programmin with avrs ?
05:12 PM renn0xtk9: I get this avrdude: stk500hv_initialize(): high-voltage serial programming control stack not defined for part "ATmega328P"
05:12 PM renn0xtk9: running that sudo avrdude -pm328p -Pusb -cdragon_hvsp -B5 -Uflash:w:blink.hex -vvv
05:17 PM NoHitWonder^: maybe that chip dont support it?
05:19 PM Jartza: chips with 20 pins or more usually support HVPP
05:19 PM Jartza: high voltage parallel programming, that is
05:21 PM renn0xtk9: jartza, oops yes I confused hvsp and hvpp .. sorry guys :S
05:22 PM Jartza: hvpp needs several wires
05:22 PM Jartza: or well. several more than hvsp
05:22 PM Jartza: http://obrazki.elektroda.net/33_1279445521.png
05:24 PM Jartza: hmm
05:24 PM Jartza: http://i.imgur.com/RPKNUUQ.png
05:24 PM Jartza: there
09:49 PM rue_house: !??!?!
09:49 PM rue_house: looks parallel
09:50 PM NoHitWonder^: Emil, do you have the book "Mikro-ohjaimen ohjelmointi C-kieleillä" ?
09:50 PM rue_house: C for microcontrollers?
09:54 PM NoHitWonder^: "Programming micro-controllers with C language"
09:55 PM NoHitWonder^: its an AVR book
09:55 PM Tom_itx: and if it's printed on wood, it's outdated
09:56 PM NoHitWonder^: why would it be outdated, concepts are same
09:57 PM NoHitWonder^: its a great book, its how i learned C
09:57 PM Tom_itx: i used the K&R book
09:59 PM rue_house: what if its printed on goat skin?
09:59 PM rue_house: in hiroglyphics
10:00 PM rue_house: yay, my tiny85 showed up
10:00 PM rue_house: 's
10:00 PM rue_house: 5 of them
10:00 PM rue_house: yay
10:00 PM rue_house: I wondr if they were worth 5usd or 0usd
10:01 PM BongoShaftsbury_: books take up too much space and weigh a lot
10:01 PM BongoShaftsbury_: i prefer digital versions
10:02 PM Tom_itx: both are useful really
10:03 PM NoHitWonder^: well, i have the digital version
10:03 PM BongoShaftsbury_: with digital you can have your entire library with you during travel
10:03 PM rue_house: and search for that word
10:04 PM BongoShaftsbury_: search is fantastic as well
10:04 PM NoHitWonder^: but i prefer physical books, its nice to have a small library
10:04 PM NoHitWonder^: but i do have lots of digital books too
10:05 PM Tom_itx: yeah searching is so much easier
10:11 PM NoHitWonder^: some publishers provide the ebook for free when you buy a physical version
10:11 PM NoHitWonder^: that's nice
10:11 PM NoHitWonder^: that's how i would like to buy my music
11:44 PM day_ is now known as daey
11:58 PM polprog: NoHitWonder^: cant you just rip the CDs?
11:59 PM NoHitWonder^: well, you can, but its lots of work