#avr Logs

Jun 18 2017

12:17 AM learath: 40v/50a is a fair bit of power
12:20 AM learath: enough that a us socket won't supply it
12:45 AM Casper: 2000W
01:10 AM eszett: hi!
01:12 AM eszett: I have a question, with a RST-pushbutton at my Atmega32u4, what is more important to have there (at the RST pin): a capacitor, a pull-up, both, or none?
01:17 AM Casper: definitelly a pullup
01:18 AM Casper: the internal pullup is extremelly weak, and is subject to any interference
01:27 AM eszett: very good then I have this clear. I compared different basic circuit of the atmega and found so many differences.
04:13 AM Emil: eszett_: if your energy source is shite then a capacitor is not a bad idea
04:13 AM Emil: assuming you buffer the input somehow
04:14 AM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-06-18_11-43-53_XDHGys8H.png
04:15 AM Emil: (They are shottckies, no worries ;) )
04:21 AM eszett_: what is a shite energy source?
04:22 AM Emil: momentary interruptions, fluctuations
04:58 AM specing: enhering: you want to continously run a tethered drone?
04:59 AM Emil: 50A is quite little
05:01 AM specing: not for a small drone
05:02 AM specing: though then I don't know where the 40V figure came from
05:02 AM specing: small drones are usually 1-3S
06:37 AM eszett_: When I want to power my Atmega32U4 via USB, is a ESD protection chip necessary or not?
06:41 AM Lambda_Aurigae: probably not.
06:41 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but, remember, usb power can be anywhere from 4.25V to 5.25V
06:42 AM Lambda_Aurigae: run the chip at 3.3V through an LDO regulator.
06:45 AM eszett_: AFAIK the atmega is doing well with 5v
06:45 AM eszett_: since ages :-)
06:54 AM Lambda_Aurigae: oh, yes, they will run good at 5V
06:54 AM Emil: They will run best at 5V
06:54 AM Lambda_Aurigae: was just saying, if you want know know what your voltage is, that's the way to do it.
06:54 AM Emil: It's strange though
06:55 AM Lambda_Aurigae: 5V out of usb port is not always well regulated.
06:55 AM Emil: What design limitations do AVRs have that 3.3v cannot run 16MHz reliably
06:57 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I've run them at 3.3V at 16MHz in the past...those are usually chips rated for 20MHz though.
06:57 AM Emil: yeah many do work
06:57 AM Emil: but the speed grades don't go that high according to the datasheet
06:58 AM Emil: Of course if they reliably did work at 3.3v 16MHz it would be visible (since it is a good thing)
06:58 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah.
08:52 AM xentrac: why would you want an LDO regulator to generate 3.3V from ≥ 4.25V?
08:59 AM specing: because it is simple to use
09:00 AM specing: or rather simple to pop onto your pcb
09:26 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and to get stable regulated power.
09:35 AM Lambda_Aurigae: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIAAWD4671932&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=MP061817&cm_mmc=EMC-MP061817-_-EMC-061817-Index-_-index-_-9SIAAWD4671932
09:35 AM Lambda_Aurigae: if I didn't have other things planned for my spendy money I would get one of those.
09:37 AM specing: not FOSS
09:37 AM Lambda_Aurigae: no, it's not.
09:38 AM Lambda_Aurigae: fortunately/unfortunately my spendy money is being saved for other projects.
09:38 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and I don't have an actual use for a quadcopter at this time other than wanting toys.
10:25 AM xentrac: I mean as opposed to a normal regulator, not as opposed to no regulator
10:29 AM Lambda_Aurigae: 2V drop on a normal regulator
10:30 AM specing: what
10:30 AM Lambda_Aurigae: at least, that's the rule of thumb I've always used.
10:30 AM Lambda_Aurigae: input should always be 2V above output for stable regulation.
10:30 AM Lambda_Aurigae: for regular linear regulators.
10:31 AM specing: oh regular linear
10:31 AM specing: I thought normal meant SMPS
10:34 AM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: foetunately not an issue anymore
10:34 AM Lambda_Aurigae: smps would be better, yes, but generally more expensive I would think.
10:34 AM Lambda_Aurigae: a lot of microcontrollers with built in usb have a 3.3V LDO regulator built in.
10:37 AM specing: yeah, I have a board running Gentoo that is powered by a huge LDO from USB
10:38 AM specing: its always hot, but easy to design with
10:38 AM xentrac: 2V? huh, you're right: http://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/datasheet/41/4f/b3/b0/12/d4/47/88/CD00000444.pdf/files/CD00000444.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.CD00000444.pdf
10:38 AM xentrac: I thought it was less
10:39 AM xentrac: this is the only datasheet I have ever seen that uses phrases like "essentially indestructible"
10:40 AM Lambda_Aurigae: LDO is 1V as I recall.
10:44 AM xentrac: https://www.diodes.com/assets/Datasheets/AP7331.pdf is an LDO with 300mV dropout
10:46 AM xentrac: http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/20001826D.pdf is the Microchip MCP1700 that claims 178mV
10:47 AM xentrac: it looks like there are LDOs with 1V dropout but they are less popular these days
10:49 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yup
10:52 AM xentrac: specing: although Lambda_Aurigae would know better, I think linear regulators outnumber SMPSes by about 5:1
10:53 AM specing: I doubt it, most mass produced stuff is using smps
10:54 AM specing: but then every smps needs some way to power its control circuitry...
10:54 AM xentrac: right
10:54 AM xentrac: and usually wherever you have a switcher to efficiently produce the power supply for the main load, you have like two to ten linear regulators hanging off of it to regulate tiny amounts of power
10:55 AM xentrac: even in modern mass-produced things
11:30 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I dunno on that one. I don't tear much modern gear apart these days...most of it is 5 to 10 years old.
11:31 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and the gear I do tear apart usually has one big honkin power supply for everything...3.3V, 5V, 12V, 24V
11:32 AM Lambda_Aurigae: then a second high voltage power supply using small flyback style transformers to produce 300 and 600 volts from 24.
11:33 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but the main power supplies in printers and copiers are big multi-stage SMP units.
11:33 AM Lambda_Aurigae: raises the cost in number of parts but cuts down dramatically in the power usage and heat production.
11:34 AM specing: simetric multi-powering?
11:34 AM xentrac: switch-mode power [supply] I guess
11:34 AM Lambda_Aurigae: small usb powered things I've torn apart either have LDO regulators(either built into the microcontroller or separate) or just run off the unregulated 5Vish from usb power
11:35 AM Lambda_Aurigae: switch mode power
11:35 AM Lambda_Aurigae: sorry
11:35 AM Lambda_Aurigae: should have been SMPS
11:35 AM xentrac: printers and copiers have the additional complication of high-voltage power supplies for the corona wires
11:35 AM Lambda_Aurigae: hardly anyone uses corona wires these days....canon mostly.
11:35 AM Lambda_Aurigae: most others use charge rollers
11:35 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but, still...300 to 600 volts.
11:35 AM xentrac: really? I had no idea
11:35 AM xentrac: also the fuser usually runs on highish voltage
11:36 AM Lambda_Aurigae: fuser runs at mains...110V or 220V
11:36 AM xentrac: yeah, I just mean high enough that the board is designed with creepage in mind
11:36 AM Lambda_Aurigae: it's either resistive heater bar or 1 to 4 halogen lamps.
11:36 AM xentrac: how hot can you get a halogen lamp before the envelope melts?
11:36 AM Lambda_Aurigae: fuser is just switched with a relay usually...relay is controlled with 12V
11:37 AM Lambda_Aurigae: hotter than you need for toner.
11:37 AM xentrac: yeah, I want to fire pottery
11:37 AM Lambda_Aurigae: toner melts at between 230 and 270 degF depending on the manufacturer.
11:37 AM xentrac: pottery not made out of toner
11:37 AM Lambda_Aurigae: hehe.
11:38 AM Lambda_Aurigae: most of the halogens in fusers are waaay overspec too....like, in 110V units the halogen lamps tend to be 250V 500W
11:38 AM xentrac: oh interesting
11:38 AM xentrac: so you only get 125W out of them?
11:38 AM Lambda_Aurigae: they heat up and give off some light but they operate more in the IR/heat producing range.
11:38 AM specing: hey Lambda_Aurigae where are the open hardware+software 2D printers?
11:38 AM xentrac: does that get the envelope hot enough to run the halogen cycle?
11:39 AM Lambda_Aurigae: have to give them more like 200 to 250 volts to get them up to full brightness.
11:39 AM Lambda_Aurigae: xentrac, I don't know.
11:39 AM xentrac: I was going to say "so they last forever"
11:39 AM Lambda_Aurigae: specing, no clue...it's a complex as hell process...specially laser/toner process.
11:39 AM xentrac: but maybe not if the tungsten just condenses on the glass
11:40 AM Lambda_Aurigae: xentrac, I've seen some last for 10 years or more.
11:40 AM enhering: specing: Yep.
11:40 AM Lambda_Aurigae: specing, I've made a printer...and a scanner...
11:40 AM xentrac: do they end up with dark deposits on the glass?
11:40 AM Lambda_Aurigae: from scratch-ish
11:40 AM Lambda_Aurigae: xentrac, never really looked.
11:40 AM xentrac: I was surprised to find a moisture sensor in the first laser printer I tore apart
11:40 AM specing: Lambda_Aurigae: a 2D printer?
11:40 AM Lambda_Aurigae: homemade printer/scanner....regular print on paper..
11:40 AM Lambda_Aurigae: with a resolution of about 50dpi give or take.
11:40 AM xentrac: pretty nice
11:41 AM specing: uh oh
11:41 AM Lambda_Aurigae: out of legos...lego mindstorms first generation.
11:41 AM xentrac: what did you use for positional feedback?
11:41 AM Lambda_Aurigae: knowledge of where it was to start with.
11:41 AM Lambda_Aurigae: move to home position and work out from there.
11:41 AM specing: lol
11:41 AM xentrac: did you just run it on steppers?
11:41 AM Lambda_Aurigae: nope.
11:41 AM Lambda_Aurigae: legos have a rotary encoder you can put in line.
11:42 AM Lambda_Aurigae: the new lego mindstorms motors have it built in.
11:42 AM xentrac: ah, you used a rotary encoder? spiffy
11:42 AM Lambda_Aurigae: old ones had an encoder that would give pulses..
11:42 AM Lambda_Aurigae: not a full rotary encoder...just single pulses as it turned.
11:42 AM Lambda_Aurigae: used ye olde lego wheels as feed rollers.
11:42 AM xentrac: so you could tell how far it had gone but not which direction
11:42 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I even did a full pickup and feed system.
11:42 AM Lambda_Aurigae: xentrac, exactly.
11:43 AM Lambda_Aurigae: running on an hc11 processor in the first generation mindstorms system.
11:43 AM Lambda_Aurigae: it would print, scan, and even copy....
11:43 AM Lambda_Aurigae: copy ran without any external computer support even.
11:43 AM specing: does it use ink or toner?
11:43 AM Lambda_Aurigae: print and scan heads moved together...2 sets of paper feed.
11:43 AM Lambda_Aurigae: it used a black sharpie.
11:44 AM specing: lol
11:44 AM specing: knew it
11:44 AM Lambda_Aurigae: so
11:44 AM Lambda_Aurigae: ink
11:44 AM specing: so you basically built a 3D pritner with a sharpie instead of an extruder
11:44 AM Lambda_Aurigae: only 2D
11:44 AM xentrac: was it a plotter? or raster?
11:44 AM Lambda_Aurigae: with regular paper feeder system rather than a flatbed.
11:44 AM specing: but you still have to apply pressure to the sharpie
11:44 AM Lambda_Aurigae: raster.
11:44 AM specing: hence 3D
11:44 AM Lambda_Aurigae: well, yeah,,,like the old plotters....up/down clicky position.
11:45 AM Lambda_Aurigae: did it with a motor, so, in theory, I could have done a full 3D printer system with it if I had kept going.
11:45 AM Lambda_Aurigae: that was long before the whole 3D printer thing came along.
11:45 AM Lambda_Aurigae: like, 12, 15 years ago.
11:46 AM xentrac: RepRap already existed 12 years ago
11:46 AM Lambda_Aurigae: written in nqc....not quite C
11:46 AM Lambda_Aurigae: xentrac, yeah, but wasn't the big popular thing it is today.
11:46 AM xentrac: yeah, because they were still trying to figure out how to build an extruder that would last longer than a day
11:47 AM xentrac: and designing their own lectronics
11:47 AM Lambda_Aurigae: looks like it might have been further back even.
11:47 AM Lambda_Aurigae: mindstorms came out in 1998 and I got mine about 2000...before I got married.
11:47 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and one of the first complex things I built was that printer/scanner/copier
11:48 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and I got married in 2002
11:48 AM xentrac: hopefully that isn't hurting your productivity too much; it's a big problem for a lot of people
11:49 AM xentrac: Joi Ito announced yesterday that he's resigning from Sony's board in part in order to take care of his kid
11:49 AM Lambda_Aurigae: changed things.
11:49 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I don't do as much in the way of long run software stuff like I used to.
11:49 AM Lambda_Aurigae: no 3 day development binges anymore.
11:50 AM xentrac: I wonder if there is a more effective and disciplined way to do that
11:50 AM Lambda_Aurigae: which is probably why I haven't contributed to linux or blender development in many years.
11:50 AM xentrac: :(
11:50 AM Lambda_Aurigae: not for me there isn't
11:50 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I would catnap for half an hour every 3 or 4 hours and keep on clickin'
11:50 AM xentrac: I mean in theory 72 hours could be more productive in 10-hour chunks than in a single 72-hour chunk, right?
11:51 AM Lambda_Aurigae: depends on the person.
11:51 AM xentrac: because you can be well-rested and you can think about stuff subconsciously in between
11:51 AM Lambda_Aurigae: these days I get about half an hour untroubled at most except on sunday mornings.
11:51 AM Lambda_Aurigae: this morning I mowed half the lawn...taking a break now and will go back to mowing.
11:52 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I don't do programming like that...when I get typing I zone out everything else...then get interrupted and it just kills the flow...and ideas slip away.
11:52 AM xentrac: yeah, same thing happns to me
11:52 AM xentrac: Jeff Barr told me about how he wrote HeadlineViewer with I think five kids already
11:52 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I can picture the code,,,flowcharts and uml models and actual code and whatnot,,,then have to get it into the computer fast as I can.
11:52 AM xentrac: (he's Mormon, I think he's up to 8 now)
11:53 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I used to be moron,,,err,,,mormon.
11:53 AM Lambda_Aurigae: joined the church to get in the pants of a 16 year old mormon girl when I was 20.
11:53 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yes, it worked.
11:53 AM xentrac: he said he never got up from the chair without the code in a working state
11:53 AM Lambda_Aurigae: almost got courts martialled for it too.
11:53 AM Lambda_Aurigae: turned out, 16 was legal in australia even though she was american and so was I...
11:53 AM xentrac: court-martialed? what does the military code say about age of consent?
11:53 AM Lambda_Aurigae: it says the local laws take precedence.
11:54 AM xentrac: aha
11:54 AM Lambda_Aurigae: unless you are on a military base.
11:54 AM Lambda_Aurigae: then US laws take over.
11:54 AM xentrac: so you just had to be careful about shtupping locations
11:54 AM Lambda_Aurigae: no base where I was stationed.
11:54 AM xentrac: thank goodness
11:54 AM xentrac: how is she doing these days?
11:54 AM Lambda_Aurigae: small detachment of 20 people....the facility was NOT considered US soil.
11:54 AM Lambda_Aurigae: no clue..haven't talked to her since I left australia.
11:55 AM Lambda_Aurigae: that was in 1988.
11:55 AM xentrac: almost yesterday
11:55 AM xentrac: anyway so Jeff's technique was 15-minute increments with the code always in a working state
11:55 AM Lambda_Aurigae: got back to the states and ended up hooking up with a dorm bunny who turned out to be mormon too.
11:55 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah...I often do AVR dev that way or similar.
11:56 AM xentrac: I have tried that but there are a lot of things I can't get working that way
11:56 AM Lambda_Aurigae: back in my hayday I would write code off the cuff for an hour or two then go compile, fix, compile, fix, compile, test.
11:57 AM xentrac: yeah, I tend to do that a lot
11:57 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I wrote an SNMP MIB parser in a 2 hour coding binge.
11:57 AM Lambda_Aurigae: compiled the first time.
11:57 AM Lambda_Aurigae: had two logic errors on the first test.
11:57 AM Lambda_Aurigae: then I handed it off to the boss.
11:57 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I was the IT department for a small software development company...
11:58 AM Lambda_Aurigae: the "real" coders couldn't write a text parsing program to save their lives.
11:58 AM Lambda_Aurigae: they tried in java, perl, and who knows what else, for a couple weeks.
11:58 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I wrote it in one morning.
11:58 AM Lambda_Aurigae: they used it for 2 years after that.
11:58 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I wrote mine in C
11:59 AM Lambda_Aurigae: spent about an hour going through MIB files and comparing them with how the boss wanted the output, then I just wrote it.
11:59 AM xentrac: recursive-descent with a lex scanner?
11:59 AM Lambda_Aurigae: it clicked in my mind how it needed to be and I did it.
11:59 AM Lambda_Aurigae: not sure what a lex scanner is.
12:00 PM xentrac: I mean using lex to generate the scanner
12:00 PM xentrac: although maybe for a MIB it's just as easy to just write a switch loop
12:00 PM Lambda_Aurigae: load the file and look for the intended patterns, do the parsing to make it look what it is supposed to look like for their program to use and write it out.
12:00 PM Lambda_Aurigae: never used switch...not sure what a lex scanner is.
12:00 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I have no formal programming training.
12:01 PM Lambda_Aurigae: when the boss looked at the code his first comment was, "And this works?"
12:01 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I just shrugged and showed him where all the parsed output files were.
12:01 PM Lambda_Aurigae: it worked and it was fast.
12:02 PM xentrac: :)
12:02 PM Lambda_Aurigae: before I wrote it, they were doing it by hand.
12:03 PM Lambda_Aurigae: over 3000 MIBs had to be converted to a nice little XML format for them to use.
12:03 PM Lambda_Aurigae: and there were things needed to be reverse ordered and switched here and there....had a list of like 15 things that had to be done to the data.
12:04 PM Lambda_Aurigae: look for pattern on how things were done in the mib and depending on certain triggers, do certain things to the data.
12:04 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-06-18_19-33-36_8mXkDmLR.png
12:04 PM Emil: Taking shape
12:04 PM Lambda_Aurigae: hell, that was in 2005 or so.
12:04 PM Emil: but damn it'll be a pain
12:04 PM Lambda_Aurigae: hehe.
12:04 PM Lambda_Aurigae: routing always is.
12:04 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I used to have orcad way back when that did a decent job.
12:04 PM Lambda_Aurigae: orcad 10 as I recall.
12:05 PM Lambda_Aurigae: hell, might still have the disk images here somewhere.
12:05 PM Lambda_Aurigae: anyhow,,,back to mowing.
12:05 PM Lambda_Aurigae: laters.
12:05 PM xentrac: enjoy!
12:06 PM xentrac: maybe you can automate mowing later this year
12:22 PM Emil: Hmm
12:22 PM Emil: 0402
12:22 PM Emil: You are very tempting
12:45 PM Emil: Next one will use them for sho
12:45 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-06-18_20-15-18_dFXAyw30.png
12:45 PM Emil: progress is being made
12:52 PM Lambda_Aurigae: probably could automate it but I do it for the exercise.
12:52 PM Lambda_Aurigae: have a nice 54 inch husqvarna rider and a cheap 21 inch pushy mower.
12:52 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I do it with the pushy mower.
12:54 PM specing: Lambda_Aurigae: hmm
12:55 PM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: routing or mowing?
12:55 PM specing: have you thought about making a battery powered mower?
12:55 PM specing: I was thinking about using a car alternator in motor mode along with a BLDC controller and a large li-ion pack
12:59 PM Lambda_Aurigae: Emil, mowing.
12:59 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I have a big honking BLDC motor that would work if I could power it from batteries.
12:59 PM Lambda_Aurigae: if I'm gonna go that route I would likely buy a ryobi 40V mower.
01:01 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I am really considering making a little auto-mower for the garden though.
01:01 PM Lambda_Aurigae: put up little fence thingies around the plants and turn it loose to mow between.
01:09 PM specing: nah those battery mowers you can buy have seriously underpowered batteries
01:09 PM specing: like 200Wh max
01:10 PM specing: it would have to be autonomous for it to not annoy you with constant recharging
01:16 PM Lambda_Aurigae: yes..autonomous with solar panel.
01:17 PM Lambda_Aurigae: 40V 5AH...so, yeah, 200Wh
01:18 PM Lambda_Aurigae: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-20-in-40-Volt-Brushless-Lithium-Ion-Cordless-Battery-Self-Propelled-Lawn-Mower-with-5-0-Ah-Battery-RY40190/300402757?cm_mmc=Shopping|THD|google|D29+Appliances&mid=sBoPnvNCB|dc_mtid_8903tb925190_pcrid_47645856102_pkw__pmt__product_300402757_slid_&gclid=CPTbld35x9QCFZa1wAodMdYItw
01:18 PM specing: solar panel? WTF?!
01:18 PM specing: you'd need like a 5m^2 panel for that lol
01:19 PM Lambda_Aurigae: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-20-in-40-Volt-Brushless-Lithium-Ion-Cordless-Battery-Push-Mower-with-5-0-Ah-Battery-RY40180/206481611
01:20 PM Lambda_Aurigae: specing, actually, not for the weed cutter bot.
01:20 PM Lambda_Aurigae: the size of a roomba.
01:20 PM Lambda_Aurigae: it would just charge a while then go make a pass or two here and there then shut down to charge mode...and just keep it up a little at a time.
01:20 PM Lambda_Aurigae: for my garden I would likely need 3 or 4.
01:21 PM Lambda_Aurigae: wouldn't use the mower for the weed bot.
01:21 PM Lambda_Aurigae: those are just the mowers that I'm looking at to replace the gas mower I have.
01:22 PM xentrac: it's good to have exercise
01:22 PM Tom_itx: want electric this time ehh?
01:22 PM xentrac: your push mower is agas mower?
01:22 PM xentrac: a gas mower?
01:22 PM xentrac: I used a reel mower when I had grass
01:22 PM Tom_itx: mine is yes
01:22 PM xentrac: that was in the previous millennium though
01:23 PM Tom_itx: i've had it probably 25 yrs or more
01:23 PM Tom_itx: buy it once...
01:26 PM xentrac: I moed too much
01:26 PM xentrac: moved
01:31 PM Lambda_Aurigae: xentrac, if I could find a decent reel mower these days I would get it.
01:31 PM Lambda_Aurigae: old ones have too many problems and new ones are crap.
01:31 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I've tried them.
01:35 PM xentrac: they probably still exist somewhere
01:35 PM xentrac: I had to replace parts on mine and sharpen the blades and keep the other quasi-blade thingy adjusted
02:11 PM Emil: Anyone remeber rotary encoder pulse timings
02:11 PM Emil: Trying to decide on component values
02:11 PM Lambda_Aurigae: http://www.google.com
02:12 PM Emil: Not something you can simply google
02:12 PM Lambda_Aurigae: depends on the encoder really.
02:12 PM Emil: True
02:12 PM Lambda_Aurigae: so, asking here is just as effective as asking on google.
02:13 PM Emil: Wondering what kind of low pass filter I want
02:13 PM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: people have experience on it
02:13 PM xentrac: you mean, in case there are glitches or noise on the encoder outputs?
02:14 PM xentrac: is that a big problem?
02:14 PM Emil: Right now It's 5ms from 0 to 5v and 5ms from 5 to 0v, using 20k to charge and 10k to dischrage
02:14 PM polprog: how fast will you spin?
02:14 PM Emil: xentrac: "No", but it's always good to have
02:14 PM polprog: look at the scope and see how long it bounces
02:14 PM xentrac: always?
02:14 PM Emil: don't have no scope
02:15 PM xentrac: Emil: did you see my thoughts earlier about improvising oscilloscopes? maybe you replied and I didn't see it
02:15 PM Emil: xentrac: hm?
02:15 PM polprog: >don't have no scope
02:15 PM Emil: xentrac: I'm at my cottage atm :D I can only design things, not measure
02:15 PM polprog: theres your problem
02:15 PM xentrac: I want to solve the "don't have no scope" problem more broadly
02:15 PM Emil: polprog: don't twist the knife T.T
02:15 PM polprog: such a big ass lab and not a single scope :D
02:16 PM Emil: polprog: nonono
02:16 PM Emil: polprog: the lab has multiple
02:16 PM Emil: but I don't have one home
02:16 PM Emil: or with me right now
02:16 PM xentrac: Emil: basically my thought is that laser diodes and spinning mirrors and image sensors are all really cheap and widely available
02:17 PM xentrac: so if you modulate the laser diode temporally with the signal you want to measure, you can spatter it across space with a spinning mirror and then use an image sensor, such as the CCD from a discarded flatbed scanner, to digitize it
02:17 PM xentrac: laser diodes that can handle many megahertz are commonplace
02:18 PM xentrac: unless some bozo has stuck a low-pass filter on the front end of them :)
02:19 PM polprog: tbh in this case audacity and some clamping circuitry would suffice
02:20 PM polprog: if you know what i mean
02:22 PM Emil: hmm
02:22 PM polprog: https://www.zeitnitz.eu/scope_en
02:22 PM Emil: This timing is good enough
02:23 PM xentrac: some encoders go faster than what my soundcard can digitize
02:24 PM polprog: good
02:24 PM polprog: a good soundcard could be 96ksps
02:24 PM xentrac: I've seen encoders that hit 60kpps but maybe there are faster ones
02:25 PM xentrac: so it'd be nice for Emil's cottage to have an instrument where he could see stuff up to the megahertz
02:26 PM polprog: even a rigol 1000 series could suffice
02:26 PM polprog: at least that's what i have, probably the cheapest professional grade scope
02:28 PM cehteh: https://www.picotech.com/oscilloscope/9300/picoscope-9300-sampling-oscilloscopes ... now give me a encoder which cant be sampled by those :D
02:28 PM Lambda_Aurigae: http://www.tek.com/oscilloscope/dsa8300-sampling-oscilloscope
02:28 PM Lambda_Aurigae: just a little one.
02:28 PM Lambda_Aurigae: only goes to 80GHz though.
02:28 PM Lambda_Aurigae: cheap at just over 31000 USD
02:29 PM cehteh: :)
02:29 PM polprog: lol, that name sounds like some aliexpress kit
02:29 PM polprog: :D
02:29 PM polprog: i would not expect that
02:29 PM xentrac: yeah, even the cheapest non-toy scope would be fine
02:29 PM polprog: 15 Tera samples per sec
02:29 PM polprog: what
02:30 PM xentrac: but my sound card does not qualify
02:30 PM polprog: how does that even go through copper traces
02:34 PM Lambda_Aurigae: one, two, or 4 channel?
02:34 PM Lambda_Aurigae: https://www.seeedstudio.com/series/DSO-17.html
02:35 PM xentrac: yes, Seeeed has what looks like a decent scope
02:36 PM xentrac: but it's priced out of the range of much of the planet's population
02:36 PM xentrac: also the DSO Nano was a toy last time I looked at it
02:36 PM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah.
02:36 PM Lambda_Aurigae: the DSO Quad looks nice.
02:37 PM xentrac: yeah, I think so
02:37 PM Lambda_Aurigae: 2 analog and 2 digital channels..72Msps
02:37 PM xentrac: did Dave Jones do a review of it yet?
02:37 PM Lambda_Aurigae: no clue
02:37 PM Lambda_Aurigae: never heard of him.
02:37 PM xentrac: EEVBlog
02:37 PM Lambda_Aurigae: ummm..ok.
02:37 PM Lambda_Aurigae: if you say so.
02:37 PM Lambda_Aurigae: no clue what that is.
02:37 PM xentrac: the Achilles heel of the one I saw him rip apart was poor analog signal integrity
02:38 PM xentrac: he's an old EE from Australia who makes overwrought videos where he takes apart electronic equipment and analyzes its performance
02:38 PM xentrac: well, older than you, anyway
02:38 PM xentrac: but not like from vacuum tube days
02:41 PM specing: I wonder why noone makes a cheap scope that can be mounted on PCI-e or some other fast access to system ram
02:41 PM xentrac: those are called "data acquisition cards"
02:41 PM specing: why use $$ on an LCD and a lot of RAM if you already have that in a PC
02:41 PM xentrac: sometimes "DAQ" for short
02:41 PM specing: xentrac: are there any cheap that are the equivalent of a 100MHz quad scope?
02:42 PM xentrac: hmm, dunno
02:43 PM Lambda_Aurigae: cheap...not.
02:43 PM xentrac: but for mere 100MHz you can totally use a US$40 USB "oscilloscope"
02:44 PM specing: I mean the cheapest x4 PCI-e fpga is like $40 one off on farnell
02:44 PM xentrac: I think that generally people who go for the more inconvenient PCI or PCIe DAQ cards are going for performance that isn't achievable over USB
02:45 PM Lambda_Aurigae: https://www.circuitspecialists.com/daq-2005.html
02:45 PM Lambda_Aurigae: not cheap
02:45 PM Lambda_Aurigae: not pci-e
02:45 PM Lambda_Aurigae: and not fast.
02:45 PM Lambda_Aurigae: hehe
02:46 PM specing: can be expresscard as well, though only x1 pci-e
02:47 PM xentrac: oddly most of the things on http://www.ebay.com/bhp/data-acquisition are not fast either and a lot of them are PCMCIA cards
02:47 PM xentrac: so I guess I was probably wrong about the performance thing
02:47 PM Lambda_Aurigae: get rue_house to make you something. He is good with strange interfaces!
02:48 PM Lambda_Aurigae: how fast can you read/write a PATA drive?
02:48 PM xentrac: 60 megabytes a second I think?
02:48 PM Lambda_Aurigae: probably not as fast as a usb 3.0 interface these days.
02:48 PM xentrac: no, definitely not
02:48 PM Lambda_Aurigae: but rue_house made a pata avr programmer.
02:50 PM xentrac: probably easier than making an equally fast sata or usb one
02:50 PM Lambda_Aurigae: too bad SATA can't be slowed down.
02:50 PM Lambda_Aurigae: would be fun to bitbang that interface.
02:51 PM xentrac: specing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/National-Instruments-PCI-5102-Digitizer-Card-NI-DAQ-Scope-/291016543291 is close to what you are talking about; that's a 1Gsps 8-bit ADC card
02:51 PM xentrac: PCI though
02:51 PM Lambda_Aurigae: pull the sata chip off of a harddrive and use that maybe?
02:51 PM xentrac: for US$300
02:52 PM xentrac: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Analogic-FAST-12S-1-1-4E-12-Bit-Data-Acquisition-Board/390210106631?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D888007%26algo%3DDISC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D41375%26meid%3D490801de877542f6865e6a9f998822ea%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D291016543291
02:52 PM Lambda_Aurigae: now I'm gonna have to look at some of the older sata drives I have and see if they have any dedicated sata chips on them.
02:52 PM xentrac: is a US$220 12-bit ADC card, but it's IA!
02:52 PM xentrac: ISA!
02:53 PM xentrac: Lambda_Aurigae: hmm, that sounds interesting!
02:53 PM Lambda_Aurigae: xentrac, good luck finding software for that board.
02:53 PM polprog: wow that's old
02:53 PM polprog: ISA!
02:54 PM specing: and overpriced
02:54 PM specing: should be $2.20
02:54 PM Lambda_Aurigae: and I'm probably the only one here who has a computer that will fit in and work in too.
02:54 PM polprog: look at that addon board
02:54 PM Lambda_Aurigae: memory dude..lots of memory.
02:54 PM polprog: i have a board with a couple iSAS
02:54 PM Lambda_Aurigae: maybe even a full MB
02:54 PM polprog: :D
02:54 PM specing: Lambda_Aurigae: I have something in a box somewhere
02:54 PM polprog: hope the new cooler arrives quickly
02:56 PM xentrac: Lambda_Aurigae: labview probably still supports it
02:56 PM Lambda_Aurigae: specing, yeah, but it probably is only programmable in Ada.
03:02 PM rue_house: xentrac, whats up?
03:03 PM rue_house: you want to make a pata signal analizer?
03:04 PM rue_house: the moulding is one thing, I'm not sure how he treats the aluminum, and the temps he uses
03:04 PM rue_house: but I know I need some finer casting sand
03:05 PM rue_house: I'm going to empty out the vac for the sand blaster one day and make myself some fine stuff
03:06 PM xentrac: nope
03:07 PM Lambda_Aurigae: rue_house, I was just attempting to be funny-ish
03:07 PM xentrac: that was Lambda_Aurigae
03:07 PM xentrac: I just want a design for a basic oscilloscope anyone can make out of garbage
03:07 PM xentrac: I think I finally have a viable approach
03:07 PM xentrac: but I haven't tried it yet
03:09 PM cehteh: any AVR could do it a bit, up to its ADC speed :D
03:09 PM polprog: it would be just some preamp/isolation
03:09 PM xentrac: the problem is that AVR ADC speed is like 100ksps and you need more like 60Msps for a basic oscilloscope
03:09 PM polprog: and diode clamp so it doesnt exceed +/- 0.7 V
03:09 PM xentrac: if it's gonna be digital
03:10 PM xentrac: also AVRs are hard to come by in garbage
03:10 PM polprog: if you wanna see your 555 timer/generator in action 20khz is enough
03:10 PM polprog: if you want a proper scope you buy a proper scope
03:10 PM xentrac: true enough
03:10 PM polprog: :P
03:11 PM xentrac: there are a substantial number of problems you can debug adequately by plugging a speaker into your circuit
03:11 PM BongoShaftsbury: anybody have a good resource for writing an LCD driver?
03:12 PM rue_house: >:] I could do it
03:12 PM xentrac: http://playground.arduino.cc/S1D15G10NokiaLCD/S1D15G10NokiaLCD?
03:12 PM xentrac: it depends on what kind of LCD
03:13 PM BongoShaftsbury: nhd-c12832a1z-fsw-fbw-3v3
03:17 PM The_CooIest is now known as The_Coolest
03:20 PM polprog: BongoShaftsbury: got datasheet
03:20 PM polprog: ?
03:21 PM BongoShaftsbury: indeed
03:21 PM xentrac: http://www.newhavendisplay.com/specs/NHD-C12832A1Z-FSW-FBW-3V3.pdf
03:21 PM xentrac: 4-line SPI
03:22 PM BongoShaftsbury: ya
03:22 PM rue_house: at some point we call it parallle
03:22 PM rue_house: parallel even
03:24 PM BongoShaftsbury: also have ST7565R from Sitronix
03:25 PM xentrac: it's not parallel
03:25 PM xentrac: it's chip select, command/data select, scl, si
03:28 PM xentrac: there is driver code in C in the datasheet but it might be better to use the AVR's SPI interface so you can send out data at 20 Mbps instead of like 4 Mbps
03:29 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-06-18_22-58-59_lLGHMxcA.png
03:29 PM Emil: A bit higher density than before
03:32 PM rue_house: I think, using the dam, you should be able to get good 33Mhz sampling bursts from pata
03:32 PM xentrac: dma?
03:32 PM rue_house: 16 bits per channel
03:32 PM rue_house: and there are 8 channels in pata
03:33 PM xentrac: BongoShaftsbury: I don't understand where the /WR and /RD signals are on this LCD module, do you have any idea?
03:33 PM rue_house: you put RD low when you want to read
03:33 PM rue_house: you put WR low when you want to write
03:33 PM rue_house: E says when you want to be doing it
03:34 PM xentrac: yeah, but where are RD and WR? is there a RD or WR pin?
03:34 PM BongoShaftsbury: xentrac: thanks
03:34 PM rue_house: one ea, yea
03:34 PM BongoShaftsbury: i'm pretty new to this stuff so atm it's like drinking from a fire hose
03:35 PM rue_house: most people lock the read and write, use the E, then just delay long enough that the lcd is ready for the next byte
03:36 PM jaakkos: BongoShaftsbury: have you used SPI before?
03:36 PM BongoShaftsbury: i have not
03:37 PM rue_house: what do you want to do with isp?
03:37 PM rue_house: spi
03:37 PM jaakkos: I recommend taking a look at SPI basics first
03:37 PM BongoShaftsbury: write from the mcu to the lcd
03:37 PM rue_house: what lcd did you get?
03:37 PM BongoShaftsbury: the one on the xmega a3bu
03:37 PM rue_house: I take it you wna tot write your own lib for talking to it like 400000 other people instead of using an existing lib
03:38 PM BongoShaftsbury: well in real world i think it would be more useful to use already written tools unless they don't meet your needs, but i'm just trying to learn
03:38 PM rue_house: ... why didn't you just get an arduino and some modules?
03:39 PM BongoShaftsbury: this is what was provided to me
03:39 PM rue_house: that thing must have cost over $50
03:39 PM rue_house: aaaaah
03:39 PM rue_house: k
03:40 PM jaakkos: BongoShaftsbury: the "example" code on that PDF is pretty crappy indeed, most likely you don't want to do anything like it.
03:41 PM rue_house: there is no board shcematic, wtf
03:42 PM jaakkos: it's a Newhaven datasheet, they're always like that
03:42 PM rue_house: but ts not a 447880 display, its a grapic display
03:43 PM jaakkos: the Newhaven datasheets are probably top #1 worst datasheets I've had to use
03:43 PM jaakkos: though arguably I haven't seen that much.
03:43 PM rue_house: this is NOT a beginners display
03:44 PM rue_house: the main doc does not even say how its wired in
03:44 PM rue_house: this baord is stupid
03:45 PM BongoShaftsbury: lol
03:45 PM rue_house: are you just starting off with microcontrollers?
03:45 PM jaakkos: the Newhaven I used, Evince PDF reader didn't render pin numbers on the datasheet
03:45 PM BongoShaftsbury: rue_house yes
03:45 PM rue_house: whats your programming background like/
03:45 PM jaakkos: then they had just copy pasted some pages from a controller IC PDF they use
03:45 PM BongoShaftsbury: i'm okay at c beginner in avr asm
03:46 PM rue_house: C is fine,
03:46 PM rue_house: you rarely need the last few drops of horsepower you get from assembler
03:46 PM specing: Ada is fine too.
03:46 PM rue_house: the docs from atmel are a FAIL in giving you what you need to use this baord
03:48 PM rue_house: a) there should be datasheets inc. for each chip on the baord, b) there should be schematics, c) there should be minimal code examples, then system examples
03:48 PM rue_house: is it for a school thing?
03:48 PM BongoShaftsbury: yep
03:48 PM rue_house: ugh
03:48 PM rue_house: can you find a board schematic?
03:49 PM rue_house: is this the first thing your trying to do with that board?
03:49 PM BongoShaftsbury: i did some basic stuff w/ assembly like writing bubble sort and sorting things in SRAM
03:49 PM rue_house: ugh
03:49 PM rue_house: is there an assignment you need to particularily do or you just have time to play with the board?
03:50 PM BongoShaftsbury: it's part of a project
03:50 PM rue_house: ugh
03:50 PM rue_house: they gave you a pile of information for the board in class?
03:51 PM BongoShaftsbury: they gave me some accompanying pdfs but nothing beyond what i have found on the manufacturers websites
03:51 PM rue_house: no schematic?
03:51 PM rue_house: sound like you need to do it from the code examples from atmel then
03:52 PM rue_house: cause, I anyhow, dont see any of the information you need to be able to just use it
03:52 PM BongoShaftsbury: i do have a schematic
03:52 PM rue_house: that screen isn't just send the data to draw on it, you have do a lot of setup and stuff to make it to things
03:53 PM rue_house: k, what are the signals going to the screen?
03:53 PM BongoShaftsbury: yeah from what i understand it's a master / slave set up?
03:53 PM rue_house: what part number do they have on the screen?
03:53 PM BongoShaftsbury: just need alphanumeric
03:53 PM rue_house: its a graphic screen
03:53 PM rue_house: you probably have to draw your own characters
03:53 PM BongoShaftsbury: i think we're allowed ot use a library
03:54 PM rue_house: this would take me atleast 2 days, and I'm seasoned
03:54 PM BongoShaftsbury: https://i.imgur.com/LhReqtG.png
03:55 PM rue_house: why didn't htey put a POT option on the lcd contrast, seriously people
03:56 PM rue_house: oh thats the backlight
03:56 PM rue_house: ighkgh
03:56 PM rue_house: what a horrid basterdization of serial
03:57 PM rue_house: NOT a starter project
03:58 PM rue_house: I can tell you lots of things, but it wont help you
03:58 PM rue_house: if you had an arduino and a hd44780 lcd, I would help you a bit
03:59 PM rue_house: a 74HC595 with some leds would help too
04:01 PM rue_house: you should also get more familiarity with programming it in C
04:04 PM rue_house: this gives me one of those feelings like the whole class, less maybe 1 or 2 people, will bail at this point on it
04:04 PM BongoShaftsbury: from what i understand is i have to mess with a particular port, set the right bitmask for the commands and i/o and then initilize the lcd
04:05 PM rue_house: a) if you had ever worked with spi, then you would know how to use that and be sure that it was working right
04:05 PM rue_house: b) if you had ever used a HD44780 dislay, you would understand the background of how the spi works
04:06 PM rue_house: er, the parallel stuff behind the spi
04:06 PM rue_house: how to talk to the chip
04:06 PM rue_house: there are two major unknowns at once
04:06 PM rue_house: its like not knowing the last 2 digits of a 6 digit combination lock
04:07 PM rue_house: your odds of opening it by smashing it repeatedly with your head are higher
04:07 PM BongoShaftsbury: well time to get smashing then
04:07 PM rue_house: you wouldn't happen to have an electronics store near by, or live in china would you
04:07 PM rue_house: ?
04:07 PM BongoShaftsbury: for me, to open the lock
04:07 PM polprog: lol: https://twitter.com/mikelectricstuf/status/875747948583428096
04:08 PM BongoShaftsbury: what in particular do yo uthink in eed?
04:09 PM rue_house: an arduino (cheap avr board), a programmer for it (optional, but the usbasp is cheap), a hd44780 display (parallel, not serial), a 74hc595, some resistors, leds, a breadboard, some jumper wires, .... a usb cable :)
04:10 PM specing: ARDWEEEENIE!
04:10 PM rue_house: the avr boards have a bootloader on them that you can use in leu of a programmer, avrdude can utilize it
04:10 PM specing: BongoShaftsbury: I recommend you go with stm32
04:10 PM BongoShaftsbury: i have an ice programmer
04:10 PM rue_house: realize that an arduino is just a REALLY CHEAP avr baord with a bootloader preflashed on it
04:10 PM specing: they come on $10 devkits and have a debugger included
04:10 PM rue_house: the ice is ok then
04:11 PM specing: AVR debuggers are like $50
04:11 PM rue_house: specing, its a school thing
04:11 PM rue_house: no
04:11 PM rue_house: you dont need a freaking debugger
04:11 PM BongoShaftsbury: i have one
04:11 PM specing: you don't when you program in Ada
04:11 PM specing: you do when you program in C or assembly
04:11 PM rue_house: if you work with 1 unknown at a time, your fine with just an led
04:12 PM rue_house: you do not need a debugger, you need to know how to build software properly
04:12 PM rue_house: anyhow
04:12 PM rue_house: the ice is fine
04:12 PM rue_house: not sure how to use it with avrdude, but I know it can be done
04:12 PM rue_house: BongoShaftsbury, are you interested in the avr thing for yourself anyhow?
04:13 PM xentrac: rue_house: I'm not seeing the RD or WR pin on the diagram in the datasheet
04:13 PM BongoShaftsbury: rue_house I get to keep the equipment afterwards so sure
04:13 PM rue_house: this is there the understanding is missing
04:13 PM polprog: BongoShaftsbury: from the datasheet: "Built-in ST7565R controller"
04:14 PM polprog: look for this in general
04:14 PM rue_house: the RD and WR lines exist in the parallel interface between the spi and the lcd
04:14 PM xentrac: heh, specing
04:14 PM rue_house: but they didn't spi in the A0 line, which is JUST STUPID
04:14 PM specing: xentrac: its actually true
04:14 PM specing: xentrac: once it compiles it runs fine
04:14 PM polprog: the table on page 7 looks really simple
04:15 PM xentrac: specing: have you written a tutorial on getting a "blink" program running in Ada on an Arduino? that would probably be useful to whoever wanted to get started hacking AVRs in Ada
04:15 PM polprog: you could make it display something like a line in a day of hard work
04:15 PM rue_house: BongoShaftsbury, do you have anywhere to get hobby electronic parts 'quickly'?
04:15 PM specing: xentrac: nope, but tkoskine has
04:15 PM BongoShaftsbury: rue_house: nope
04:15 PM rue_house: if you have 2weeks->7 months, china is great
04:15 PM polprog: but you need experience, patience, and a half decent scope
04:15 PM specing: xentrac: for the record, I can't get a working AVR Ada build lol (the compiler works, but theres no avr-libc and I have no time basically to fix it)
04:15 PM BongoShaftsbury: i have patience and a scope
04:15 PM rue_house: (7 months is canada post not able to sort packages)
04:16 PM rue_house: want a shopping list?
04:16 PM polprog: BongoShaftsbury: from the init code you can take the hex sequence
04:16 PM xentrac: specing: probably if you want to get people using Ada on AVRs, fixing the library situation would be a good way to spend your time :)
04:16 PM polprog: but first get some expericence and listen to rue
04:16 PM polprog: :)
04:16 PM rue_house: the problem is they are hitting you with too many unknowns at once
04:16 PM polprog: ^^^
04:17 PM rue_house: you need to know your spi works before you try to talk to the lcd
04:17 PM BongoShaftsbury: well by the time the equipment arrives the deadline will have expired
04:17 PM specing: xentrac: Its better on more normal distros, on Gentoo its a nightmare
04:17 PM polprog: theres your problem, if it's a school assignment, it's a shit courss
04:17 PM xentrac: rue_house: oh, I see; you send the RD and WR bits ahead of the data bits or something, making a 10 bit word?
04:17 PM polprog: corse*
04:17 PM rue_house: cause if you dont know if your spi works, and you dont know if the lcd is getting the right bytes, ... do you see?
04:17 PM BongoShaftsbury: i don't disagree but i'm not in a position to do much about it
04:17 PM xentrac: taht would preclude using the hardware SPI on the AVR which is only 8 bits, isn't it?
04:18 PM rue_house: I know :/
04:18 PM BongoShaftsbury: most i can do is try to learn as much as i can and make the best of it
04:18 PM polprog: it's not with that LCD then
04:18 PM BongoShaftsbury: xentrac: it's an 8bit mcu
04:18 PM rue_house: thats why your stuck with the atmel libraries, you know they already work
04:18 PM rue_house: *or hope so*
04:18 PM xentrac: BongoShaftsbury: I meant the SPI interface
04:18 PM xentrac: specing: Arduino ships its own self-contained avr-libc
04:18 PM rue_house: you need not use ANY of the arduino stuff tho
04:19 PM xentrac: rue_house: no, I mean that if specing wants to get people using Ada on AVRs, putting together a similar self-contained package is probably a good move
04:19 PM rue_house: I just get arduinos cause I can buy one for$2 on a board, with support hardware, and a chip I can only get otherwise for $8
04:19 PM xentrac: yeah
04:20 PM xentrac: also if you want to write software for other people to use, you know they can get one too
04:20 PM rue_house: AND, IIIIIF I'm being lazy, I can use the bootloader to flash it
04:20 PM rue_house: tho I usually overwrite them
04:21 PM rue_house: I have 3 programmers, the *good* one (from tom), and hack one (baord from tom with software tom pointed me to), and the usbasp
04:21 PM rue_house: (and the stk200 parallel programmers that I dont use anymore)
04:21 PM xentrac: :)
04:22 PM rue_house: BongoShaftsbury, if you want, I'll take some time and make you a shopping list
04:22 PM rue_house: but I need to get dressed and drink mroe tea
04:22 PM xentrac: for specing's evangelical purposes, having standardized hardware and a standardized bootloader and USB interface is fantastic because he only needs to get Ada working properly on one board
04:22 PM xentrac: instead of one board per Ada victim
04:22 PM BongoShaftsbury: rue_house: i appreciate that, but i don't think the equipment will arrive before this is due
04:23 PM polprog: BongoShaftsbury: in this case
04:23 PM polprog: BongoShaftsbury: can you get any help from the teacher/prof?
04:23 PM rue_house: BongoShaftsbury, my advise, if you want to be one of the 1-2 people to get this working
04:23 PM BongoShaftsbury: possibly
04:24 PM rue_house: is to get it working with the atmel examples, then reverse engineer them to write your own code
04:24 PM rue_house: there will be a lot of "I'm doing this, I dont know why, but the atmel example did, and if I dont, it dosn't work anymore"
04:24 PM rue_house: and honestly thats the best you can hope for with what you seem to have been given
04:25 PM rue_house: and honestly, thats the way the world works right now
04:25 PM polprog: ^
04:25 PM rue_house: everyone just piles **** ontop of **** without knowing anything about it
04:25 PM rue_house: ~meh~
04:26 PM rue_house: how did 4 letter words get such a reputation?
04:26 PM polprog: is it you typing * or the server
04:26 PM rue_house: my password is **********
04:27 PM rue_house: its content protection
04:27 PM polprog: hunter2
04:27 PM xentrac: Hunter2
04:27 PM rue_house: go ahead type your password, it'll just come up stars :)
04:27 PM polprog: im too old for this
04:27 PM polprog: http://sirkan.iit.bme.hu/~kapolnai/fun/bitchecker.html
04:27 PM BongoShaftsbury: ************
04:29 PM rue_house: for the record, every time I see your nick I read prolog
04:29 PM specing: > Ada victim
04:29 PM specing: xentrac: dude wtf
04:29 PM polprog: goodnight, have fun reading that link :P
04:30 PM rue_house: BongoShaftsbury, I live here, say my name if you want me to make you a good training parts list, might total about $20
04:30 PM polprog: btw also, if you wrote a nice HAL like we have in C i'd be happy to mess with ada
04:30 PM polprog: o/
04:30 PM rue_house: *usd
04:30 PM BongoShaftsbury: rue_house: thanks and i appreciate you looking into this and sharing your insights
04:30 PM rue_house: I'm a 'pro' and I'd feel sorry for me being stuck with doing that
04:31 PM rue_house: remember this is #avr of freenode, come back lots
04:33 PM xentrac: yes, I don't know if I can help much but I'll be happy to on the occasions that I can
04:39 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-06-19_00-09-03_QL6WSFnO.png
04:39 PM Emil: fml
04:39 PM Emil: :D
04:40 PM Emil: QFN has its downsides
04:40 PM Emil: Should have gone with the TQFP but ohwell
04:40 PM cehteh: so much vias
04:40 PM cehteh: you should move the chip to the other side :D
04:40 PM Emil: Nooo
04:41 PM Emil: I'll make it single sided or die trying
04:42 PM Emil: Fuck
04:42 PM Emil: perhaps I should just give up and use the smaller vias
04:44 PM Emil: Yeah
04:45 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-06-19_00-15-05_69PQNGLI.png
04:45 PM Emil: Current iteration
04:46 PM Emil: Hmm
04:46 PM Emil: I don't actually need those ground pad thingies on both sides
04:46 PM Emil: And I could make them smaller on the top copper, too :D
04:47 PM Emil: To squeeze space from underneath the chips
04:48 PM Emil: Yeahm I'll do that
04:53 PM Emil: Hmm, I'll need dem vias tented here, though
05:08 PM Emil: This is just dirty
05:14 PM grafi_ is now known as papirkopi
05:43 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-06-19_01-12-43_p6dtHdta.png
05:43 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-06-19_01-13-02_AHUccruA.png
05:43 PM Emil: All routed up
05:43 PM Emil: DRC is quiet (finally)
05:44 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-06-19_01-13-41_AMKrgozO.png
05:44 PM Emil: :DDD
05:45 PM xentrac: congratulations!
05:45 PM noHitW_work: what is this project? can you share schematics?
05:45 PM Emil: noHitW_work: Interactive Led Driver v2
05:46 PM Emil: And nope :D
05:46 PM noHitW_work: lame
05:46 PM Emil: At least not yet
05:46 PM Emil: ikr
05:46 PM xentrac: ...LED driver?
05:47 PM Emil: xentrac: with features and shit
05:47 PM Emil: but it's just a led driver, yes
05:48 PM xentrac: like, to make a display? Or a strobe light? Or an area illumination light?
05:53 PM Emil: Just addressable rgb leds
05:53 PM Emil: like ws2812b
05:53 PM Emil: It's for a couple of things
05:54 PM Emil: One for my brother for rgb mouse pad (think razer firefly)
05:54 PM Emil: one for my own house to spice it up
05:54 PM Emil: and for these liikenteenjakajabileet that we have
05:54 PM Emil: And if they are good and people dig them, I'll make a few to rent out
05:55 PM Emil: Within our university/student union
06:01 PM xentrac: aha, I see
08:00 PM Thrashbarg_ is now known as Thrashbarg
08:15 PM Tachyon` is now known as Tachaway
09:39 PM BongoShaftsbury: how do i determine which SPI i should use i see usart and standard
09:39 PM BongoShaftsbury: and i see serial peripheral interface master (common api) (service) and then serial peripheral interface (driver)
09:45 PM xentrac: I'm not sure
09:45 PM xentrac: it would be nice to have a more complete timing diagram in the datasheet for the LCD because then you could compare it to the AVR's SPI timing diagram to see if you can use the AVR's SPI
09:51 PM BongoShaftsbury: i think i was over complicating the project a lot
09:51 PM BongoShaftsbury: i think it may be a lot easier than i initially thought
10:16 PM xentrac: hooray!
10:17 PM xentrac: what is the simpler way to do it?
10:31 PM BongoShaftsbury: i thought i was rewriting the driver and building it from scratch instead i'm just using it
11:28 PM Emil: lol
11:49 PM day__ is now known as daey