#avr Logs

Jun 12 2017

12:48 AM JanC_ is now known as JanC
01:22 PM kre10s: anyone here ever stack 0805?
01:44 PM Emil: yeah
01:44 PM Emil: nothing hard about it
01:49 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-06-12_21-18-56_hI7quwBH.png
01:49 PM Emil: When you shit like this you begin to wonder if you should ;=)
01:50 PM polprog: piggybacking ftw
01:50 PM Emil: How many strange things can you find in that pic?
01:50 PM polprog: too many
01:50 PM polprog: my favourite is the sideways resistor
01:51 PM polprog: its for airflow, i know this /s
01:51 PM Emil: yeeeeeeesss, yes, yes, for airflow, yes
01:51 PM Emil: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
01:52 PM polprog: theres so much dirt and gunk around those resistors
01:53 PM polprog: and the joints look crippled
01:54 PM polprog: even my kynar wire prototypes look better :D
01:54 PM Emil: try taking a close up picture of them with a flash
01:55 PM Emil: then take a screenshot of the uploaded picture zoomed in
01:55 PM Emil: for quality
01:55 PM Emil: and come back and tell me it looks better :D
01:55 PM Emil: also attempt to find the fucking short
02:00 PM Emil: I do wonder if it is one of the passives
02:00 PM Emil: I also need smd tweezer
02:00 PM Emil: s
02:01 PM Tom_L: they are great
02:01 PM polprog: i do easily with normal temp controlled iron and a butane iron used as a hot air tool
02:01 PM Tom_L: i made a suction pick for them from a fishtank pump
02:01 PM polprog: the dremmel butane iron thingie
02:01 PM polprog: its nice
02:02 PM Tom_L: did most of my smt with that
02:02 PM polprog: the only problem is that the lighter refill cans last ~1 month... i now use torch fuel cans
02:03 PM Tom_L: put a Tee in the line so i could release the parts by moving my finger off the opening
02:03 PM polprog: it's propane-butane i think but it works, and it's a tad colder than butane
02:04 PM Tom_L: how's the asm going?
02:05 PM polprog: nice
02:05 PM polprog: i finished the up/down counter logic
02:06 PM polprog: it still needs a subroutine that takes the count from the sram and displays it as digits
02:06 PM polprog: for that i need to add a second 7 seg and a 595, or something else
02:06 PM polprog: and another subroutine that saves the state to eeprom,
02:07 PM polprog: if possible not always but on brown-out, but im not sure if it's a good idea.
02:07 PM polprog: it could also use external EERAM if i manage not to forget to order parts
02:07 PM polprog: but i enjoy it
02:07 PM polprog: it's so far the most pen-and-paper programming i ever did
02:08 PM polprog: because i got the proper logic as soon as i drew everything out on paper :)
02:13 PM Emil: brown out interrupt?
02:13 PM Emil: Is that a thing?
02:13 PM Emil: Nice
02:14 PM polprog: Emil: RTFM
02:14 PM polprog: xD
02:14 PM polprog: or maybe it's not
02:15 PM polprog: i dont remember
02:15 PM Emil: I think it is not a thing ;)
02:15 PM polprog: i think it's Brown Out Detection
02:15 PM polprog: it halts the avr iirc, if you set it
02:15 PM Emil: yes
02:15 PM polprog: but an interrupt would be nice, although risky
02:15 PM Emil: but you cannot
02:16 PM Emil: have a subroutine that runs on brownout
02:16 PM polprog: you could do that in theory with a big backup cap and a comparator interrupt
02:16 PM Emil: sure
02:16 PM Emil: rtfm, pfft
02:17 PM Emil: you got caught in the age old trap ;)
02:17 PM Emil: Anycase
02:17 PM Emil: what shit should I order from eBay/Aliexpress/banggood/whatever?
02:18 PM polprog: left handed screwdrivers
02:18 PM polprog: whatever... i got recently one of that CPwhatever usb-uart converters
02:18 PM Emil: I bet I could make one just to fuck with people
02:18 PM Emil: CP2102
02:18 PM Emil: One?
02:18 PM polprog: yeah something like that
02:18 PM Emil: You didn't order 10?
02:18 PM polprog: nah
02:19 PM Emil: Man, you have not learn't anything
02:19 PM Emil: ;)
02:19 PM polprog: it was not from china, rather a local ebay-type site
02:19 PM Emil: learnt*
02:19 PM Emil: ah
02:19 PM polprog: i needed it nao
02:19 PM Emil: gotcha
02:19 PM polprog: so it has 3 leds. and all of them were red
02:20 PM polprog: have you ever seen RX and TX led have the same color??? blasphemy! i replaced the 0603 red led with a 0603 green one
02:20 PM polprog: :-)
02:21 PM polprog: they also went cheap on solder on the USB plug, only one tab was soldered... fixed that too
02:22 PM Emil: heh
02:23 PM polprog: i wonder if i could manage etching and solderig a qfn with the tools i have
02:23 PM polprog: also, yesterday i was looking at some tqfp stm32 chip
02:23 PM polprog: does it have some kind of ISP like programming interface or do i need some peripheral chip
02:23 PM polprog: ?
02:24 PM polprog: im asking because i have never had an evaluation kit per se
02:24 PM Emil: all arms have a built in serial bootloader rom
02:24 PM polprog: all the AVR laerning i did i made the rigs myself
02:24 PM Emil: all stm32s at least
02:24 PM Emil: but
02:25 PM Emil: I recommend you buy an stlink-v2
02:25 PM NoHitWonder^: no
02:25 PM NoHitWonder^: buy a dev kit
02:25 PM Emil: lol
02:25 PM NoHitWonder^: it has st link
02:25 PM polprog: so it's possoble to just solder one on a rasterboard/breakout and program it with some kind of a programmer? naive question
02:25 PM NoHitWonder^: its way cheaper
02:25 PM NoHitWonder^: like nucleo
02:25 PM Emil: NoHitWonder^: we are talking about ebay level cheapness
02:25 PM NoHitWonder^: or discovery
02:25 PM Emil: NoHitWonder^: what you propose is more expensive
02:25 PM Emil: like quadruple
02:25 PM NoHitWonder^: 10 bucks?
02:26 PM Emil: yeah
02:26 PM NoHitWonder^: stm32 kits costs 10 bucks and they all have st link
02:26 PM Emil: True
02:26 PM polprog: my problem with eval kits is that once you finish a project and connect it to the rest of the circuit you dont have the eval kit anymore, you need to buy another one
02:26 PM NoHitWonder^: show me a 2,5$ st-link from ebay
02:26 PM polprog: and in the case of avrs i just take out another chip from the bag
02:26 PM Emil: But an stlink v2 is 2.4€
02:26 PM polprog: :P
02:27 PM Emil: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-ST-Link-V2-Stlink-Emulator-Downloader-Programming-STM8-STM32-Shell-Metal-/172551806965?hash=item282ce39ff5:g:pyIAAOSwax5Ys4xy
02:27 PM Emil: They work just fine
02:27 PM Emil: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ST-Link-V2-STLINK-V2-USB-Programming-Unit-Mini-STM8-STM32-Emulator-Downloader-/401190575149?hash=item5d68d25c2d:g:vIYAAOSwYIxX3ecr
02:28 PM polprog: lol i just found (for 5 eur) some self proclaimed "Stlink compatible" and it looks exactly like USBasp
02:28 PM polprog: https://kamami.pl/stm32/559856-programator-st-linkv2-compatible-dla-stm32-i-stm8.html
02:28 PM Emil: NoHitWonder^: you were saying? :D
02:28 PM NoHitWonder^: i wouldnt buy that crap
02:28 PM polprog: it looks too crappish
02:28 PM NoHitWonder^: just buy a nucleo
02:28 PM polprog: no
02:28 PM Emil: polprog: but really, if you want a good quality thing for testing, buying a nucleo is not a bad choice
02:28 PM Emil: NoHitWonder^: lolololo
02:28 PM NoHitWonder^: it can do external chips
02:28 PM Emil: NoHitWonder^: you are just being an elitist here
02:29 PM Emil: polprog: those things work just fine
02:29 PM Emil: polprog: they have another stm32 chip inside with some firmware
02:29 PM polprog: ok, i can risk 5 euros
02:29 PM Emil: polprog: 2.35€*, you mean?
02:29 PM Lambda_Aurigae: think I paid 3 dollars for my stlink clone...
02:30 PM Emil: And Lambda_Aurigae has used it, too
02:30 PM Lambda_Aurigae: twice
02:30 PM NoHitWonder^: "those work just fine" yeah but engineers dont buy china crap like that. dont skimp on tools is the #1 rule
02:30 PM polprog: ebay doesnt really operate in PL, i'd have to pay for intl shipping
02:30 PM Lambda_Aurigae: got mine from amazon.com
02:30 PM polprog: so it's the same price if i buy it from some polish shop
02:30 PM Emil: NoHitWonder^: pls
02:30 PM Emil: polprog: wait wat
02:30 PM Emil: polprog: wait
02:31 PM Emil: polprog: poland was on the china shit list? :D
02:31 PM polprog: s/shipping/postage/
02:31 PM Emil: top kek
02:31 PM polprog: what shit list
02:31 PM Emil: polprog: chinks have a habit of putting some countries on a shitlist
02:32 PM polprog: honestly i never ordered shit from china directly
02:32 PM Emil: wat
02:32 PM Emil: have you not purchased from ebay?
02:33 PM Emil: from china?
02:33 PM polprog: ebay is nonexistent in poland
02:33 PM Emil: mate
02:33 PM Emil: wat
02:33 PM Emil: pls
02:33 PM polprog: id have to pay postage from germany/england/etc
02:33 PM Emil: what
02:33 PM Emil: the
02:33 PM Emil: fuck
02:33 PM polprog: we have allegro.pl ;)
02:34 PM Emil: polprog: just go to ebay.com and try to order to poland
02:34 PM polprog: it's the same price, and locally i can get it in 24h
02:34 PM Emil: Free shipping
02:34 PM Emil: Poland
02:34 PM Emil: Economy Int'l Versand
02:34 PM Emil: Estimated between Wed. Jun. 28 and Fri. Jul. 14
02:34 PM Emil: Seller ships within 1 day after receiving cleared payment - opens in a new window or tab.
02:34 PM Emil: I don't what you are talking about paying for int shipping
02:35 PM polprog: last time i ordered a casio calculator from ebay and it was waiting a week at the bloody customs
02:35 PM Emil: so?
02:35 PM Emil: if it's under 22€ it doesn't matter
02:35 PM polprog: i dont have time for that :P
02:35 PM Emil: now that's a completely different thing
02:35 PM polprog: ok, suppose i have the stlink
02:35 PM NoHitWonder^: dont mate
02:36 PM Emil: but dont say that you have issues with ordering from ebay when you dont ;)
02:36 PM Emil: NoHitWonder^: stfu :D
02:36 PM NoHitWonder^: :D
02:36 PM Emil: NoHitWonder^: it's not a bad "investment"
02:36 PM Emil: 2 and a half euros
02:36 PM Lambda_Aurigae: stlink is a good little tool for programming stm8 and stm32 chips.
02:36 PM Emil: v2, mind you also
02:36 PM Emil: don't ever buy just "stlink"
02:36 PM Emil: that's rubbish
02:36 PM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah..what's what I have.
02:36 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I just call it stlink.
02:37 PM Emil: eah
02:37 PM polprog: so? v2 or v3?
02:37 PM Lambda_Aurigae: haven't hardly touched it since my first round with the stm32 boards.
02:37 PM Emil: polprog: no v3 exists
02:37 PM polprog: i swear ive seen one, whatever
02:38 PM Emil: If you want value, then the student discounted segger jtag debugger is pretty good I hear
02:38 PM Emil: j-link
02:38 PM polprog: supoose i have a usable stlink vx programmer, do i need anything apart from the stm chip?
02:38 PM Emil: Costs 35€ iirc
02:38 PM Emil: polprog: no
02:39 PM Lambda_Aurigae: polprog, pretty much not...I like the little blue boards...forget what they are called exactly.
02:39 PM Lambda_Aurigae: http://wiki.stm32duino.com/index.php?title=Blue_Pill
02:39 PM Emil: bluepills
02:39 PM Lambda_Aurigae: them
02:39 PM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah.
02:39 PM Lambda_Aurigae: cheap and usable.
02:39 PM Emil: as cheap as avrs but have a lot more bang
02:39 PM Lambda_Aurigae: both the ones I got have double the flash...required me modding my config file to take advantage of it.
02:39 PM polprog: so i guess ill get one or two of those and some bare chips too
02:39 PM Lambda_Aurigae: it's like an arduino in 32bit pretty much.
02:40 PM Lambda_Aurigae: there's even arduino stuff you can run on it.
02:40 PM Emil: polprog: eh, I wouldn't buy bare chips until you are actually designing something that requires the space
02:40 PM polprog: why not
02:40 PM Emil: just buying the bluepills is easier and cheaper
02:40 PM polprog: worst case they'll lie in the drawer
02:41 PM Lambda_Aurigae: thing is, the pic32mx270f256b has more flash and more ram...runs a bit slower and not as many i/o pins but has hardware usb on the chip.
02:41 PM polprog: i forgot about the most important part... a working linux toolchain!
02:41 PM Lambda_Aurigae: but the bluepill is a good introductory arm board.
02:41 PM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: the bluepills have hardware usb, too
02:41 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I have that for both pic32 and bluepill.
02:42 PM Lambda_Aurigae: Emil, the usb is an extra chip isn't it?
02:42 PM Lambda_Aurigae: oh
02:42 PM Lambda_Aurigae: duh
02:42 PM Lambda_Aurigae: no...not..it's built in.
02:42 PM Emil: yap
02:42 PM Lambda_Aurigae: there is something missing in that usb..
02:42 PM Lambda_Aurigae: is it,,usb-otg missing?
02:42 PM Emil: the boards have shit config
02:43 PM Emil: you have to change the passives and things to get it working
02:43 PM Emil: but they do have usb
02:43 PM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: if you crack open your stlinkv2 you'll find another stm32f103 inside with no additional chip
02:44 PM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: and you pretty much only need a slave for micros
02:44 PM Emil: otg is just when you want to act as a master
02:44 PM DKordic: Emil: IIRC Brown-out Reset is also on Reset Vector. `BORF' in `MCUSR'.
02:44 PM polprog: k, so i know that the compiler exists
02:44 PM Emil: DKordic: but not code
02:44 PM polprog: now the flasher
02:44 PM DKordic: polprog: [[https://github.com/jsnyder/stm32loader][stm32loader]] and USB2UART BoB is another option for flashing.
02:45 PM polprog: YES! thanks very much!
02:45 PM polprog: done for today, gotta clean up the house
02:45 PM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah...I use otg for usb keyboard connected to microcontroller.
02:45 PM polprog: thanks everybody!
02:45 PM polprog: o/
02:45 PM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: that's pretty cool
02:45 PM Emil: polprog: cya
02:46 PM Lambda_Aurigae: unfortunately, I gotta run 2 chips to get usb mouse and keyboard.
02:46 PM Emil: DKordic: BORF is just a flag that tells if a brownout has happened
02:46 PM Emil: You can check for it on reset vector
02:47 PM Emil: or anywhere (I don't think its cleared until next reset)
02:47 PM Lambda_Aurigae: have also used it for chip to chip comms for the fun of it....one otg master, the other slave.
02:47 PM DKordic: MCUSR is never cleared by hardware, it must be cleared in Reset ISR.
02:47 PM Lambda_Aurigae: supposedly you can make two otg master-ish chips talk to each other but haven't gotten that to work yet.
02:49 PM Emil: DKordic: nice to know
02:49 PM Emil: DKordic: anycase, no brownout vector
02:49 PM Emil: that you could run before juice runs out
02:50 PM DKordic: Emil: Why is that a problem? Create Your own `BOR' label and jump to it from `Reset' ISR.
02:50 PM Emil: ...
02:50 PM Emil: DKordic: mate, you should reat the context first
02:50 PM Emil: Anycase, that stm32loader looks pretty nice
02:50 PM Emil: It talks to the rom serial bootloader?
02:50 PM DKordic: Ah, You mean something like UPS?
02:51 PM DKordic: Yes (BOOTROM over UART).
02:51 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I do that with 8052 chips.
02:51 PM Emil: I should replicate that in C
02:52 PM DKordic: Emil: http://wiki.pinguino.cc/index.php/Cheap_DIY_PIC32_Programmer is something close for PIC32 :) .
02:52 PM Emil: Lambda might me interested in that
02:54 PM Lambda_Aurigae: cute.
02:55 PM Lambda_Aurigae: fortunately I have a pickit3 for those.
02:56 PM Lambda_Aurigae: but might be something worth playing with...rework it to run on a different platform.
03:02 PM NoHitWonder^: if company is so great that they provide you a programmer/debugger/devkit for 10 bucks, that is enough reason to buy the real one, instead some chinese crap from ebay
03:04 PM Emil: polprog: http://www.martinhubacek.cz/arm/arm-cortex-bare-metal-assembly/stm32f0-cortex-m0-bare-metal-assembly
03:04 PM Emil: NoHitWonder^: :D
03:04 PM Emil: lol
03:05 PM Emil: NoHitWonder^: that's some edgy normie shit
03:06 PM NoHitWonder^: that's just one reason
03:07 PM NoHitWonder^: the real reason not to buy is that professional embedded engineers dont buy cheap chinese crap for tools
03:08 PM Lambda_Aurigae: most of us aren't professional.
03:08 PM Emil: All I hear is "but muh elitism" ;)
03:08 PM NoHitWonder^: yeha but polprog wants to be a pro
03:08 PM Emil: also
03:09 PM Emil: that no true scotsman was a fallacy
03:09 PM Emil: lots of pro ees buy shit from ebay
03:09 PM Emil: just because its cheap and they can
03:09 PM Emil: if you are developing a product, yeah, I would never source shit from ebay but that's a completely different thing
03:13 PM NoHitWonder^: you cant really justify this with cheapness now
03:13 PM NoHitWonder^: 2,5e vs 10e
03:13 PM NoHitWonder^: and 10e is the real deal
03:15 PM bss36504: heh, just noticed the headline thing about stm32
03:15 PM bss36504: this channel is evolving
03:15 PM polprog: Emil: thanks for that link
03:16 PM Emil: polprog: thought you might like it
03:22 PM polprog: if it works, it's exactly what i needed
03:26 PM Jartza: eveningggggh
03:27 PM polprog: evening
03:29 PM polprog: Emil: the guy in the link is usig some sorta windows utility but i believe that as soon as i have the bin file (i just installed arm-none-eabi gcc, binutils, newlib, gdb) i will be able to flash it
03:29 PM polprog: with that github script
03:30 PM NoHitWonder^: install openocd too
03:30 PM NoHitWonder^: you can use that with gdb
03:31 PM polprog: good idea
03:31 PM polprog: now i can also install stm32flash from aur
03:31 PM polprog: and a package called stlink describing itself as stlink v1/v2 protocol
03:31 PM polprog: no idea what they meant
03:33 PM DKordic: OpenOCD is känser.
03:34 PM * DKordic hides.
03:34 PM Emil: :D
03:34 PM Emil: DKordic: I approve you having adopted my spelling
03:34 PM Emil: polprog: you can try libopenmc3, too
03:35 PM Emil: That's what _ami_ uses
03:35 PM polprog: im now trying to assemble and disassemble the example from the link
03:39 PM polprog: damnit
03:40 PM polprog: radare cant handle that, it produces garbage
03:40 PM polprog: hopefully i have objdump
03:43 PM polprog: https://puu.sh/wif6b/2e51406561.png
03:44 PM polprog: i guess id need to change some settings for it to work...
03:44 PM polprog: but, it compiled!
03:44 PM polprog: goodnight!
03:44 PM Emil: Good night
03:58 PM bss36504: What kind of SDKs does STM32 have for their graphical LCD hardware? Is it any good? Easy to use?
04:01 PM LeoNerd: I wonder when/why the term "SDK" took over from "library"
04:02 PM bss36504: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/8772746/difference-between-framework-vs-library-vs-ide-vs-api-vs-sdk-vs-toolkits
04:02 PM bss36504: Seems to be the consensus.
04:04 PM xentrac: we need to replace stackoverflow with a site that doesn't close whatever questions turn out to be useful
04:05 PM xentrac: NoHitWonder^: where is the Real One made if not China? Indonesia maybe?
04:14 PM Emil: LeoNerd: lib!=SDK
04:26 PM Lambda_Aurigae: LeoNerd, because,,,microsoft
04:27 PM Tom_L: SDK infers bloat
04:28 PM Tom_L: a Kit full of S***
05:05 PM Jartza: I do like some SDKs for debugging purposes, but most of the SDKs are full of some crap
05:22 PM Lambda_Aurigae: only SDK I've ever really used was java
11:55 PM day__ is now known as daey