#avr Logs
Jun 08 2017
#avr Calendar
12:26 AM rue_house: so, syncing a computers clock based on a woodpecker is RFC-what?
12:29 AM rue_house: WTP? woodpecked time protocol?
12:35 AM day__ is now known as daey
12:46 AM Casper: rue_house: what is that? the 71MHz signal?
12:56 AM xentrac: WPMTE timecode
01:41 AM rue_house: I wonder what the centre freq is of a woodpecker
02:30 AM Snert: about 5 a second then trails off to slow over about 5 seconds.
02:31 AM Snert: my gutters are suffering.
02:40 AM rue_house: yea, sometimes they just go for noisy
08:21 AM Jartza: hello
08:32 AM noHitW_work: hi
08:34 AM hetii: ho :)
09:23 AM rue_house: low high low low high low low low low high high low high low low high
09:48 AM noHitW_work: hi?
12:31 PM mark4: does anyone here have an stk500 or stk600?
12:38 PM NoHitWonder^: yes
12:38 PM NoHitWonder^: 3 stk500's
12:39 PM specing: triple core do more
12:44 PM mark4: NoHitWonder^, does it support xmega devices?
12:45 PM mark4: ive been asked to compare the 500 to the 600 for a friend and make recommendations
12:45 PM mark4: both boards support the device he is going to be developing for atmega324pa
12:45 PM NoHitWonder^: idk havent used it for years
12:45 PM mark4: if you have three of them you must like it :)
12:45 PM NoHitWonder^: i would think not
12:45 PM mark4: erm. where are you located? :)
12:46 PM NoHitWonder^: finland
12:46 PM mark4: drat. if you were in dallas texas i would come relieve you of one of them :P~
12:46 PM mark4: its only $80 ish for the 500. $200 for the 600
12:47 PM mark4: so one of the two double header connectors is for the personality board and the other is for video?
12:47 PM NoHitWonder^: in 500?
12:48 PM NoHitWonder^: never used 600
12:48 PM mark4: they both have two double header connectors. tell me what they are for on the 500
12:48 PM polprog: how many pins? 6- isp; 10-isp/jtag
12:49 PM NoHitWonder^: no those are external boards
12:49 PM NoHitWonder^: +for
12:49 PM mark4: yea you can plug a personality board into one for what ever device your developing for?
12:49 PM NoHitWonder^: wait a sec ill take the manual out
12:50 PM mark4: kk
12:51 PM NoHitWonder^: they are just called expansion headers
12:51 PM mark4: heh no information on what they expand into? lol
12:51 PM NoHitWonder^: "expansion connectors allow easy prototyping of applications with stk500"
12:51 PM mark4: so lets say today i want to develop for an atmega32u4 and tomorrow i want to develop for some other device
12:51 PM NoHitWonder^: nothing more
12:51 PM mark4: how do you accomplish that with the stk?
12:52 PM NoHitWonder^: buy atmel-ice
12:52 PM mark4: i mean. how do those different devices plug into the boards?
12:52 PM mark4: different dip sockets for each or a different daughter board for each?
12:53 PM mark4: i have an avr dragon. i think the dragon is better than atmel-ice
12:54 PM polprog: i have a dragon, i like it, never used ice
12:54 PM NoHitWonder^: i know nothing about about daughter cards, there are 4 diffrent dip sockets in stk500
12:54 PM mark4: yes but i think they are pairs.
12:54 PM mark4: one board connects to two heders
12:54 PM mark4: there doesnt seem to be much info on the atmel site about what you can plug into them
12:56 PM NoHitWonder^: you cant plug any atmega there, idk about xmegas
12:56 PM NoHitWonder^: *can
12:57 PM NoHitWonder^: i dont even know if xmegas come in dip package
12:59 PM mark4: heh i have an xmega256a3bu xplained but thats the only xmega ive ever worked with
01:01 PM NoHitWonder^: but if you have dragon, why do you want stk500
01:02 PM NoHitWonder^: well, stk500 has high voltage programming
01:02 PM NoHitWonder^: but no debbugging capabilities, unlike dragon
01:16 PM mark4: wait
01:16 PM mark4: you cant debug on the 500?
01:16 PM NoHitWonder^: no
01:16 PM NoHitWonder^: but i need to go now->
01:16 PM NoHitWonder^: cya
01:16 PM mark4: ty
01:17 PM mark4: the dragon is not a developmengt board
01:17 PM Lambda_Aurigae: the dragon is a programmer/debugger
01:17 PM Lambda_Aurigae: the stk500 and stk600 are technically dev boards that double as programmers
01:18 PM mark4: aha
01:18 PM Lambda_Aurigae: stk500 does NOT support xmega...stk600 does
01:18 PM mark4: but you can do debug on the 600?
01:18 PM Lambda_Aurigae: that's the PDI programming
01:18 PM mark4: yes i know the 500 doesnt support xmega
01:18 PM Lambda_Aurigae: somewhat I think.
01:18 PM mark4: can you debug on the 600 with jtag?
01:18 PM Lambda_Aurigae: with aWire and jtag
01:18 PM Lambda_Aurigae: if your chip supports one of those.
01:19 PM Lambda_Aurigae: aWire is for avr32 chips.
01:19 PM mark4: kk so the atmel ice is no good?
01:19 PM Lambda_Aurigae: jtag for others,,but not all avr chips support jtag.
01:19 PM Lambda_Aurigae: atmel ice is good, yeah, as a jtag interface as I recall.
01:19 PM mark4: ya
01:19 PM mark4: oh right it has both ISP and JTAG ports on it
01:20 PM Lambda_Aurigae: atmel ICE does JTAG, PDI, and TPI
01:20 PM Lambda_Aurigae: not sure if it does ISP
01:20 PM Lambda_Aurigae: yup..it does.
01:20 PM Lambda_Aurigae: they call it SPI programming on the ice page.
01:20 PM mark4: i know it does because ive watched youtube vids on it
01:20 PM mark4: what is aWire ?
01:21 PM mark4: is that the 1 wire?
01:21 PM Lambda_Aurigae: aWire is not 1 wire..it is a proprietary debugging interface for some of the avr32 brand chips.
01:21 PM mark4: aha
01:21 PM Lambda_Aurigae: kinda like debugWire only different.
01:22 PM mark4: i dont recall anything about aWire with my avr dragon nor on anything ive read about the ICE. still, i think i need to tell my friend to get the 600 not the 500 :)
01:22 PM mark4: sure am glad you told me that BEFORE i had him buy the cheaper 500 lol
01:22 PM Lambda_Aurigae: atmel ice supports pretty much every programming and debugging interface for attiny, atmega, atxmega, at90s, at89s, and atmel ARM products.
01:23 PM Lambda_Aurigae: avrdragon does not support awire.
01:23 PM mark4: aha cool
01:23 PM mark4: yea but it DOES have the high voltage "get out of jail free" card :P
01:23 PM Lambda_Aurigae: atmel ice is the end-all-be-all atmel programmer debugger hardware.
01:24 PM Lambda_Aurigae: yes, it does do HVSP and HVPP for most attiny/atmega devices
01:24 PM mark4: if i have a non atmel ARM device thats on a board with a JTAG header. can i debug it with the atmel debugger?
01:24 PM Lambda_Aurigae: maybe
01:24 PM Lambda_Aurigae: JTAG standard,,,isn't
01:24 PM mark4: yea i know
01:24 PM mark4: its like all standards. they are fuzzy around the edges
01:24 PM Lambda_Aurigae: the ICE is designed for atmel jtag.
01:24 PM Lambda_Aurigae: jtag is blurry right down the middle.
01:25 PM mark4: lol
01:25 PM Lambda_Aurigae: the hardware interface side isn't even all standard...and the software side is plain myoptic.
01:27 PM mark4: then your answer should have been "probably not but maybe" :)
01:27 PM Lambda_Aurigae: "maybe" includes "oh fuck no it's not gonna work"
01:29 PM mark4: yes but theres a dividing line yes[...|.........] no and yes[ ...........|.]no
02:53 PM day__ is now known as daey
03:11 PM DKordic: [[http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/AppNotes/CTMU%2001375a.pdf][AN1375: See What You Can Do with the CTMU]] > Precision Time Measuremen
03:11 PM DKordic: ``Time can be measured precisely to a resolution of under a nanosecond.'' 0.0
03:17 PM NoHitWonder^: im glad i bought atmel-ice in spring 2016, its price has nearly doubled at mouser now
03:25 PM Emil: https://static.ylilauta.org/files/oy/orig/3l9sylhy/aha%20no%20sit%20se%20on%20just%20niin.jpg
03:26 PM Emil: That's my reaction when I discover that the dacs I bought are a) retarded
03:26 PM Emil: and b) "absolute" maximums are not actually guarabteed
03:26 PM Emil: I'll call digikey tomorrow
03:26 PM learath: Emil: erm. you expected to run them at their absolute maximum?
03:27 PM Emil: learath: no
03:27 PM Emil: learath: but I expect them not to break before exceeding that
03:28 PM Emil: Allrighty, a small amount of rework is needed
03:29 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-06-08_22-58-46_jG9cH3Ny.png
03:29 PM Emil: I'll have to cut pins 2-5 from 14 and and add a voltage divider for them
03:29 PM Emil: Nothing major
03:32 PM JanC_ is now known as JanC
04:07 PM LeoNerd: Offhand: anyone remember if the 328PB has any hardware handshaking lines for the UART?
04:08 PM LeoNerd: I'm just working on a breakout for that + USB-CDC bridge chip, wondering where I should pull RTS/CTS by default
04:08 PM LeoNerd: I'm intending to put in a couple of DNP resistor pads, so someone *could* link those to the chip if required but wouldn't have to
04:10 PM Lambda_Aurigae: look at the datasheet?
04:11 PM LeoNerd: Wellsure; my "offhand" part was mostly just in case anyone happened to know quicker than it takes me to find the right page :)
04:11 PM Lambda_Aurigae: these days rts/cts is hardly used really.
04:12 PM LeoNerd: Yah.. I sometimes just use them as extra GPIO lines that the controller can send
04:12 PM LeoNerd: Sometimes a bit more convenient than using BREAK or 9bit
04:14 PM Lambda_Aurigae: from the looks of it, rts/cts needs to be handled in software with GPIO as the USART does not implement them.
04:14 PM LeoNerd: Yah
04:15 PM LeoNerd: So I guess I'll just pick.. hrm.. some spare two GPIO pins somewhere.. I wonder what's a good choice
04:15 PM Jartza: wazzup?
04:15 PM Lambda_Aurigae: whatever is easiest to route
04:15 PM Lambda_Aurigae: morning Jartza
04:16 PM LeoNerd: I'm on 4layer now - routing won't be a trouble :)
04:23 PM LeoNerd: PD4 + PD5 feel like reasonable-enough choices. Primary UART is on PD0 + PD1. While I *could* put handshaking on PD2 + PD3, in practice those are the two real INTx pins, so that might be a bit of a waste
04:24 PM LeoNerd: The whole of PORTD still has PCINT anyway, and these two pins are otherwise not too busy; XCK0, T), OC0B, T1
04:24 PM LeoNerd: T0
05:01 PM xentrac: Emil: you burned out your DAC by running it at its absolute maximum of 5V?
05:08 PM Emil: xentrac: no
05:08 PM Emil: I'm leaning towards getting bad parts
05:09 PM Lambda_Aurigae: much easier to just buy bad parts to start with and not have to worry about burning them up later.
05:09 PM Emil: xentrac: the dac recommend that vref is at most vdd-1.5V
05:09 PM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: heh
05:32 PM xentrac: Emil: yes, I recall that. once you made that change, did it start working?
05:32 PM xentrac: I mean did it start going down to a couple hundred millivolts above ground or less? all the way to ground would be nice
05:49 PM Emil: xentrac: nope ":D"
05:49 PM Emil: Every fucking thing has a fucking short
05:50 PM Emil: Am I doing something systemically wrong
05:50 PM Emil: Can I reflow all these parts
05:50 PM Emil: Is it because of my clearance
05:50 PM Emil: Can OSHPARK not really do 6mil/6mil
05:51 PM xentrac: you can probably use a multimeter in diode test mode to see if you have solder bridges or something
05:51 PM Emil: I fucking need that milliohm/mico or milivolt-meter to measure the fucking gradients
05:52 PM xentrac: you're in luck, an AVR ADC referenced to its internal bandgap reference is almost precisely a millivoltmeter
05:52 PM xentrac: even without a preamp
05:53 PM Emil: Probably need microvolts
05:54 PM xentrac: a difficulty with microvolts is that most circuits have noise well above the microvolts
05:55 PM Emil: true
05:55 PM xentrac: so you have to be obsessive about all kinds of things you don't normally worry about, just as with RF
06:04 PM Emil: I feel like I could just shoot myself
06:05 PM Emil: This is just so fucking irritating :D
06:05 PM xentrac: Hacking is always harder in practice than in theory because anything that can go wrong will go wrong
06:05 PM xentrac: in theory, of course, there is no difference between practice and theory; in practice, there is.
06:06 PM xentrac: speaking of shooting oneself, the guy who said that burned himself to death in an attempted murder-suicide
06:07 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-06-09_01-36-41_pe5hQT1X.png
06:07 PM Emil: It even looks nice
06:07 PM Emil: T.T
06:07 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-06-09_01-36-59_SylDwe1h.png
06:07 PM Emil: That inductor is totally oversized though :D
06:07 PM Emil: But fuuuuuckk meeeee
06:11 PM Emil: Well
06:11 PM Emil: Time to march home
06:12 PM xentrac: enjoy
07:12 PM day__ is now known as daey
07:20 PM day___ is now known as daey
11:10 PM aberon is now known as trefle
11:10 PM trefle is now known as aberon