#avr Logs
May 22 2017
#avr Calendar
12:15 AM Tachyon` is now known as Tachaway
12:17 AM day__ is now known as day
01:24 AM vishwin60 is now known as vishwin
04:04 AM avrdude: Has anyone used FatFS with an SD-card here? I'm struggling a bit with understanding the "sector size" setting
04:04 AM avrdude: is sector size the same as allocation unit size?
04:05 AM avrdude: It recommends to keep ss at 512 bytes, but do i then need to format my sd-card to have 512 bytes of "allocation unit size"? If so, that's not an option, i can only choose values between 2048 and 64k
04:07 AM Haohmaru: what is this "USI" shizzle on the attiny? can it work as an async full-duplex UART?!
04:07 AM rue_bed: vfat is not the same as fat
04:10 AM Emil: Hmm
04:10 AM Emil: My quick PCBs arrived
04:11 AM Emil: Exactly one week
04:11 AM Emil: But for that price they damn better be :D
04:12 AM Emil: And I just noticed that they lack, hmm, how should I put it, *elegance*
04:42 AM szwetsloot: Hey guys. I have been debugging a chip for three days straight now, but I can't figure out why it won't program.
04:42 AM szwetsloot: Can one of you please look if you can see something?
04:42 AM szwetsloot: This is the schematic
04:42 AM szwetsloot: https://www.dropbox.com/s/01bflbqa1sybxsx/Schematic.pdf?dl=0
04:43 AM szwetsloot: Unlike what it says above the chip, it is actually an atmega328pb-au instead of atmega328p-au
04:52 AM Emil: Do you depend on power pins that are no longer there?
04:54 AM avrdude: why don't you have decoupling caps on your power pins, mate
04:54 AM szwetsloot: Email: What do you mean?
04:54 AM szwetsloot: avrdude: I copied the schematic from arduino pro mini. Can that cause it?
04:54 AM Emil: szwetsloot: check the pinout differences between m328p and m328pb
04:54 AM szwetsloot: avrdude: I can try and solder some 100nF over the chip
04:55 AM avrdude: i would try that if i were you
04:55 AM szwetsloot: Emil: Differences are the PE0 and PE1 pins.
04:55 AM szwetsloot: avrdude: Okay, I'll do that
04:55 AM avrdude: also, what does your programmer say? you can read target voltage atleast?
04:55 AM avrdude: but not read device ID?
04:56 AM szwetsloot: I am using this line:
04:56 AM szwetsloot: .\avrdude.exe -c usbtiny -p m328pb -C "C:\Program Files (x86)\Arduino\hardware\tools\avr\etc\avrdude.conf" -U lfuse:w:0xFF:m -U hfuse:w:0xDE:m -U efuse:w:0xF5:m
04:56 AM szwetsloot: Response is this:
04:56 AM szwetsloot: avrdude.exe: initialization failed, rc=-1 avrdude.exe: AVR device initialized and ready to accept instructions avrdude.exe: Device signature = 0x000000 (retrying) avrdude.exe: Device signature = 0x000000 (retrying) avrdude.exe: Device signature = 0x000000 avrdude.exe: Yikes! Invalid device signature. avrdude.exe: Expected signature for ATmega328PB is 1E 95 16 avrdude.exe done. Thank you.
04:56 AM szwetsloot: oh that line with an -F after it
04:56 AM Emil: do you have crystal fuses set without using crystal?
04:57 AM LeoNerd: Oooh, a 328PB? :)
04:58 AM Smasher816: I am planning on upgrading my project from the p to the pb
04:58 AM Smasher816: haven't got around to it yet though
04:58 AM LeoNerd: The 328PB has two more IO pins than the older 328P. Beware of those
04:58 AM Smasher816: any of you have experience with avr-gdb?
04:58 AM Smasher816: also has more pwm and uart and stuff
04:58 AM LeoNerd: You can't just stick a 328PB chip on the same pinout, or you run the risk of driving those pins on the chip against where the PCB has power traces on it
04:58 AM szwetsloot: Emil: I am using the crystal
04:58 AM LeoNerd: If you're *really* careful in software you can get away with it but I wouldn't risk it myself
04:59 AM LeoNerd: If you want to play with the 328PB, I sell an Ardunio Nano-shaped/sized breakout board for it
04:59 AM szwetsloot: LeoNerd: I know, the footprint and symbol are for the 328PB. The PE0 and PE1 pnis are connected correctly
04:59 AM LeoNerd: Ahh. OK
04:59 AM szwetsloot: Emil: Would I need decoupling on both VCC pins? Pin 4 is really hard to reach
05:00 AM szwetsloot: Emil: I put on one pin 18
05:00 AM avrdude: i would say pin 4 is much more crucial
05:00 AM szwetsloot: Avrdude: Okay, time to try
05:02 AM Emil: szwetsloot: as long as it is close to the chip one is enough
05:02 AM Emil: but two would be obviously better ;)
05:04 AM szwetsloot: Emil: Okay, I managed to solder it vertically on the 328pb pin with a wire to GND
05:05 AM szwetsloot: Still device signature #000000 from avrdude
05:07 AM szwetsloot: Is there any way I can check the resonator without an oscilloscope? I don't have one of those here
05:07 AM szwetsloot: occassionaly I get device signature #0x666c61
05:08 AM szwetsloot: That is 11001100110110001100001 in binary. Is it possible that the baudrate is wrong somehow?
05:11 AM LeoNerd: .oO( A person called avrdude might be succeptible to false highlights in #avr ;) )
05:18 AM szwetsloot: Emil: Do you know if that is possible?
05:22 AM Emil: WHAT IS?
05:23 AM Emil: sorry
05:23 AM Emil: caps
05:23 AM Emil: Are you using spi or uart bootloader?
05:25 AM szwetsloot: spi
05:25 AM szwetsloot: Sorry baudrate is wrong word.
05:27 AM Haohmaru: ugh.. so there are attiny mcus that are programmed via TPI, via UPDI, and via something that looks like SPI but smells fishy
05:27 AM Haohmaru: wut iz diz madnezz
05:27 AM LeoNerd: Any of the 'tiny chips I've used (13, 84, 85, 841) have all been regular SPI-shaped ISP
05:27 AM Haohmaru: i have just an avrisp2 clone from olimex
05:28 AM Haohmaru: so UPDI is out of the question
05:28 AM Haohmaru: i do have TPI on the programmer, however, i need a chip with 14-ish pins and USART
05:29 AM Haohmaru: and with those things i only found tinys with UPDI or this SPI-like thing (which isn't called TPI)
05:29 AM Haohmaru: i'm talking about the attiny441
05:32 AM Haohmaru: the datasheet talks about debugWire, external programming (SPI+RESET), and high voltage serial programming
05:33 AM LeoNerd: That's pretty standard
05:34 AM Haohmaru: LeoNerd is it?
05:34 AM LeoNerd: Yah; any AVR chip I've ever used has had dW and whichever of HVSP or HVPP is appropriate
05:34 AM LeoNerd: (the 8 and 14pin ATtiny chips have serial; anything bigger has parallel)
05:35 AM Haohmaru: okay, so.. can i program this thing with the avrisp2 clone and avrdude?!
05:36 AM Haohmaru: it has PDI (for xmega), TPI (for some of the tinys), and ISP (for atmegas)
05:36 AM Haohmaru: ..or do i need another programmer
05:36 AM Tom_itx: that covers most chips
05:36 AM Tom_itx: debug with an led
05:37 AM LeoNerd: I've honestly never really found a need for any of the fancy debug stuff. Debugging by toggling a spare IO pin, or a softUART writing to it.. or whatever. That usually works
05:37 AM Haohmaru: i haven't used and don't rely on debugging features
05:38 AM Tom_itx: maybe a couple times i needed more but used a logic analyser then
05:38 AM LeoNerd: If you did want to use dW you basically end up needing the highvoltage programmer stuff anyway, which is what I made my HVSP board for
05:38 AM Haohmaru: i'm trying to find out if this chip is gonna cost me 1 euro or 1+80 euro
05:38 AM LeoNerd: Though in practice never really got around to using it
05:39 AM Tom_itx: if you screw up the clock source you will need HV
05:39 AM Tom_itx: so don't!
05:40 AM Tom_itx: that's about the only time you need HVPP HVSP
05:40 AM LeoNerd: Mmm :)
05:40 AM LeoNerd: Though often you can steal another clock from somewhere else if it comes to that
05:41 AM LeoNerd: Oh random question, I wonder if anyone knows in practice how ISP is actually implemented inside an AVR chip
05:41 AM Tom_itx: and it's cheaper even then just to get another chip and remember your mistake
05:41 AM Haohmaru: where's Jartza
05:41 AM Haohmaru: he fiddles around with attiny, right?
05:41 AM LeoNerd: It occurred to me that it /could/ be done by having RESET mode reboot the CPU on the chip to run from some sort of inbuilt ROM image containing the ISP program, which uses the SPM instruction, etc etc...
05:42 AM LeoNerd: Which would explain why you need a CPU clock for it, and how it's quite similar to the SPI slave mode anyway, and so on...
05:42 AM Tom_itx: and unless you really need all the IO you shouldn't need debugwire etc
05:42 AM LeoNerd: And why HVxP is also *totally* different to regular ISP
05:42 AM Tom_itx: to use the reset pin as an IO
05:42 AM LeoNerd: Yah; I've considered it before on the 8pin ATtiny chips
05:43 AM Tom_itx: that becomes more noticable on the tiny10 etc
05:43 AM LeoNerd: If you're e.g. on a mega328, the difference between 8+8+5 or 8+8+6 GPIO pins doesn't really warrant using HVPP there, but on an ATtiny85, say, the difference between 5 or 6 pins can be enough
05:43 AM Tom_itx: you only get 4 io total
05:43 AM LeoNerd: OHyeah, there even more so
06:20 AM avrdude: <LeoNerd> .oO( A person called avrdude might be succeptible to false highlights in #avr ;) )
06:20 AM avrdude: sadly, yes :(
06:21 AM avrdude: szwetsloot: the resonator on your board is irrelevant.. what baudrate did you set the ISP to?
06:22 AM JanC_ is now known as JanC
06:23 AM szwetsloot: avrdude: I didn't chagne it, so default
06:25 AM Emil: Favourite buck converter?
06:26 AM szwetsloot: avrdude: Seems it is a soldering issue. I made a new one with just the minimal components (LDO, 2x 4.7uF cap, reset resistor and MCU) and now it works
06:26 AM szwetsloot: avrdude: So I'll start adding the rest to this board and see where it stops working (if it is a schematic issue)
06:35 AM skz81: <avrdude> <LeoNerd> .oO( A person called avrdude might be succeptible to false highlights in #avr ;) ) >> Haha I remember that time you were asking why. You eventually found out ?
06:40 AM polprog: yo can always use the full name of the program ;)
06:45 AM Lambda_Aurigae: avrdownloaderuploader
06:45 AM Lambda_Aurigae: easier to type av<tab>
06:48 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I suppose it should be more properly, AVRDownloaderUploaDEr
07:14 AM Jan-: I am having trouble with a C error message.
07:14 AM Jan-: It says "variable or field 'spi_select' declared void"
07:14 AM Jan-: to which my response is... yes?
07:14 AM Jan-: this error message is incredibly unhelpful
07:15 AM Jan-: I think the problem is that I'm trying to pass an enum type into spi_select but I'm not aware of having done anything wrong.
07:16 AM Emil: Jan-: niin?
07:16 AM Emil: if you declare such void you can't pass it
07:16 AM Jan-: I can have a void function that accepts arguments!
07:17 AM skz81: Jan-, but you CAN'T pass it a void argument. It makes no sense
07:17 AM Jan-: What's that got to do with it being declared void.
07:17 AM Emil: share the code
07:17 AM Jan-: wait one
07:17 AM skz81: Jan-, you can pass a void* (generic pointer) through.
07:18 AM skz81: though*
07:18 AM skz81: void means "nothing". What is the point of declaring an argument that can even have any value ? Just don't declare it
07:19 AM skz81: s/can even have any value/can't even have a value/
07:20 AM Jan-: I didn't.
07:21 AM Jan-: I declared the function as not returning anything.
07:21 AM Emil: show the code
07:22 AM Jan-: I'm working on simplifying it, or you'll get 400 lines.
07:23 AM Jan-: eh it's messy, but whatever: https://pastebin.com/c4uRg72p
07:23 AM Jan-: Presumably I'm specifying the enum improperly
07:23 AM Jan-: but what the hell "spi_select declared void" has to do with it I have no idea.
07:24 AM Emil: you might want to enable enum-8-bits btw
07:24 AM Emil: when you compile
07:24 AM Emil: otherwise you should get ints
07:25 AM Emil: ":D"
07:25 AM Jan-: wha?
07:25 AM Jan-: it's an 8 bit micro, why does C insist on everything being a signed 16 bit integer :(
07:25 AM Emil: oh I might actually be wrong
07:26 AM Jan-: But anyway. The error message it gives is not an error. spi_select is declared void. Yes, yes it is. And I'm not returning anything from it. So that's fine.
07:26 AM Emil: No I was right
07:26 AM Emil: gcc has a switch "-fshort-enums" that makes the compiler use the smallest usable integer type for its enums, which is the effect you are looking for. Be careful when mixing modules (including libraries) with different settings for this flag - enum types will be incompatible between them.
07:26 AM Lambda_Aurigae: because it's gcc...just because the processor is 8bits doesn't mean everything in the compiler is 8bit.
07:26 AM Jan-: I guess I can use 16 bit values.
07:26 AM Emil: you
07:26 AM Emil: should
07:26 AM Emil: not
07:26 AM Emil: just declare -f short-enums
07:26 AM Lambda_Aurigae: what line gives the error?
07:27 AM skz81: Jan-, the error message is probably related to the way you are USING the function spi_select()
07:27 AM Jan-: I'm not using it at all.
07:27 AM Jan-: I just wrote it, as part of an initiative to make the SPI select handling a bit more general, which I discover I need.
07:27 AM Emil: bool spi_cs_activehigh[] = { false
07:27 AM Emil: };
07:27 AM Lambda_Aurigae: would help to see the entire code, or the line that generates the error at the very least.
07:27 AM Emil: This code is cancer
07:27 AM Jan-: Twelve minutes!
07:28 AM Emil: :D
07:28 AM Jan-: I made a private bet with myself that it'd be less than ten minutes before someone said my code was "cancer."
07:28 AM Jan-: Oh well.
07:28 AM Jan-: You guys are slipping.
07:28 AM Emil: :DDDDDDDDD
07:28 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and, 0 length arrays?
07:28 AM Jan-: well the idea is that all of those will get more values as I add more SPI devices.
07:28 AM Emil: ah
07:28 AM Emil: I see
07:29 AM Emil: Why not use bitfields? They are pretty nice
07:29 AM Jan-: right now I have 3, but it's hard to select between them and I can end up with more than one selected at once.
07:29 AM Jan-: I suspect I won't ever have more than a handful, but y'know.
07:29 AM Emil: hmm, I wonder how gcc-avr handles bitfields
07:29 AM Lambda_Aurigae: again, without seeing the calling code and the error, hard to tell what's causing it.
07:29 AM Jan-: Nothing's calling it.
07:29 AM Jan-: The function is never used.
07:29 AM Jan-: I only just wrote it.
07:30 AM Jan-: Error: https://pastebin.com/7aviD1c4
07:30 AM skz81: Jan-, try : typedef enum spi_devices { ... } SpiDevices;
07:30 AM Lambda_Aurigae: then the error..the whole error, including line number.
07:30 AM Emil: Jan-: umm
07:30 AM Emil: Jan-: you do realise that enums are not selectors
07:30 AM skz81: just to see if it compiles (cf : http://stackoverflow.com/questions/20426716/how-do-i-use-typedef-and-typedef-enum-in-c)
07:30 AM Emil: per se
07:30 AM Emil: Jan-: those enums do not work as variables
07:30 AM Emil: Jan-: they have fixed values that the compiler selects
07:31 AM Jan-: That's fine.
07:31 AM Emil: No I mean :D
07:31 AM Emil: Your spi_select function cannot possibly work
07:31 AM Jan-: Sure.
07:31 AM Jan-: OK.
07:31 AM Jan-: I've never used enums in C before.
07:31 AM Lambda_Aurigae: don't
07:31 AM Jan-: But what does any of this have to do with spi_select being declared void?!
07:31 AM Emil: also fix those syntax errors
07:31 AM Emil: Jan-: you have syntax errors
07:31 AM Emil: fix them first
07:32 AM Jan-: Well screw enums.
07:32 AM * Jan- directs flame thrower towards enums
07:32 AM Emil: enums are nice
07:32 AM Jan-: CLEANSING FLAME
07:32 AM * Jan- waves her arms
07:32 AM Lambda_Aurigae: change that variable declaration in the spi_select to an int or something and see what happens.
07:33 AM Jan-: the problem is that I need to look up what port and pin that particular device.
07:33 AM Jan-: and whether it's active high or low
07:33 AM Jan-: so I thought, OK, arrays, maybe?
07:33 AM LeoNerd: There's about a billion soluions to that
07:33 AM Lambda_Aurigae: arrays works..enums are not exactly arrays
07:33 AM LeoNerd: My usual solution is a #define in my local-config.h that gets pulled in by the shared driver code
07:33 AM Jan-: close enough for this, I'd have thought. At least they would be in c#
07:33 AM LeoNerd: Other thoughts are stub functions that get inlined by an aggressive-enough link-time optimiser
07:33 AM Emil: LeoNerd: >int
07:34 AM Emil: pls no
07:34 AM Lambda_Aurigae: close enough works in horseshoes, hand grenades, and atom bombs.
07:34 AM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: *
07:34 AM skz81: <Jan-> But what does any of this have to do with spi_select being declared void?! << Sometimes an error laying at one line "mess up" another following line, that's my guess, I may be wrong
07:34 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and programming languages that don't give a shit and just fill memory with excess crap until something works.
07:34 AM * Jan- thinks that C's error messages are horribly unhelpful
07:34 AM * Jan- does not like C
07:34 AM LeoNerd: Either way should be ultimately the same after it's all compiled; should just be a single instructions
07:34 AM LeoNerd: *instruction
07:34 AM specing: This channel needs more Ada
07:35 AM Emil: Jan-: wtf
07:35 AM Emil: C error messages are like clearest of all
07:35 AM Jan-: anyway, I have to go.
07:35 AM Jan-: we're going to the movies :D
07:35 AM Lambda_Aurigae: change (spi_device dev) to (int dev) and see what happens.
07:35 AM Emil: compare them to python for example :D
07:35 AM Emil: Jan-: whatm ovie?
07:35 AM Emil: specing: I was expecting you
07:35 AM specing: Emil: glad to assist
07:36 AM Lambda_Aurigae: we need more assembly programmers dangit!
07:36 AM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: polprog is helping with that
07:36 AM Emil: Hmmmm
07:36 AM Emil: I might write my own assembler
07:37 AM Lambda_Aurigae: gavrasm works well.
07:37 AM Jan-: guardians of the galaxy 2!
07:37 AM Emil: Jan-: ooh
07:37 AM Jan-: anyway, we'll continue this later.
07:37 AM Emil: I should go watch that, too
07:47 AM day is now known as daey
08:09 AM avrdude: how many people in here work as actual embedded sw engineers?
08:09 AM avrdude: what's it like?
08:14 AM Emil: i DO
08:14 AM Emil: I do*
08:15 AM Emil: Well, I do electronics engineering, embedded systems, firmware, data analysis collection transfer, validation and visualisation
08:15 AM Emil: Its nice
08:15 AM Emil: it's*
08:15 AM Emil: But I choose who I work with
08:16 AM Emil: So there's that :D
08:17 AM Emil: How the fuck does digikey not have some components
08:17 AM Emil: datasheet
08:17 AM Emil: Hmm, should I stop being a digikey shill
08:17 AM specing: NDA?
08:17 AM Emil: specing: of course
08:17 AM specing: damn NDAs
08:17 AM Emil: well I don't sign shit NDAs :D
08:18 AM Emil: "Don't tell anyone what you have done for use" NDAs are fine
08:18 AM Emil: Non competes are känser
08:18 AM avrdude: Emil: what's the ratio of actual programming to for example documenting/planning/testing/validation etc etc?
08:19 AM Emil: I'm a student so I have not been in this world for long. But for actual projects documenting/planning/testing/validation is hugely important
08:19 AM Emil: I mean, once you have a good plan programming does not take much time
08:19 AM avrdude: hmm
08:21 AM Emil: Electronics design noes not take that long either once you know what you want
08:22 AM Emil: I mean really
08:22 AM Emil: Plan first
08:26 AM crazy_pete: i saw a play yesterday "Guards at the Taj"
08:26 AM crazy_pete: the Taj Mahal was the first non compete
08:27 AM crazy_pete: according to legend , he made everyone sign non competes and then when the project was over , he chopped off 20,000 workers hands
08:27 AM crazy_pete: however there are no mounds of severed hands or 20,000 bodies without hands in northern india
08:28 AM crazy_pete: probably what happened was he had them all sign non competes and then spread the rumour that he hacked off the hands of all those who didn't agree to scare everyone
08:29 AM crazy_pete: (The taj was built by a mongol and they were known for brutal bluffing while offering a velvet glove)
08:31 AM avrdude: why not just chop off their heads.. i mean, what are they going to do with no hands
08:33 AM crazy_pete: because at the time losing your hands meant a slow death by starvation
08:33 AM crazy_pete: it was probably more of a terrifying thought
08:33 AM crazy_pete: you are so on the right track btw emil
08:33 AM crazy_pete: there is an old saying
08:34 AM crazy_pete: weeks of debugging can save you hours of planning :-)
08:34 AM Emil: hehe
08:36 AM crazy_pete: god i hate digikey
08:36 AM crazy_pete: their screwy shipping rates
08:37 AM LeoNerd: I've not ordered from them loads of times because of that
08:38 AM Emil: What screwy shipping rates?
08:38 AM Emil: 50€ and it is free shipping
08:38 AM Emil: same with mouser
08:38 AM Emil: and farnell
08:41 AM crazy_pete: never seen that in the USA emil
08:43 AM crazy_pete: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/digikey-free-international-shipping-but-no-free-usa-shipping/
08:43 AM crazy_pete: interesting
08:44 AM crazy_pete: i ordered from them once and they estimated shipping at $8 then they charged me $17 for shipping and the stuff arrived in an envelope that had been metre stamped for $2.78 US!
08:46 AM Emil: :D
08:46 AM Emil: Wtf
09:00 AM julius: Emil: just read the backlog for the last day, how long are you in electronics if i may ask?
09:10 AM Emil: 2014 summer
09:30 AM julius: ah
09:30 AM julius: this is the camera: goo.gl/LRURDy i talked about yesterday
09:31 AM Emil: >FHD 1080P
09:31 AM julius: the one where i was interrested in the video output, you said its probably analog video....any idea on what kind of chip one would need to record at 60fps
09:31 AM Emil: >Video resolution: 720P
09:31 AM Emil: :DD
09:31 AM julius: yes thats what they say, but i doubt it
09:32 AM Emil: julius: oh its probably digital
09:32 AM julius: ive done some test recordings and it looks very cheap, not so sharp
09:32 AM Emil: julius: cmos -> arm -> memory
09:32 AM Emil: It's probably a module that's produced a lot
09:32 AM julius: but gnome says its 60fps
09:33 AM julius: yeah, the camera is a ripoff...there are at least 4 other vendors who sell it
09:33 AM _ami_: https://olimex.wordpress.com/2015/11/09/chinese-clones-attack-stm32-microcontrollers/
09:33 AM Emil: >Video resolution 1280x720p 30fps
09:33 AM _ami_: i am just wondering if those Cheap stm32f1xx boards have legitimate STM32 chips?
09:34 AM julius: im totally new to capturing video, what should i google products wise....cmos and digital video?
09:35 AM julius: _ami_: doesnt the article say that its a different vendor who produces a compactible clone?
09:36 AM julius: _ami_: one would have to test if its really operating at whats promised
09:36 AM Emil: julius: mate :D
09:36 AM Emil: you do realise you sound like those "hao du ai into leeetronics!?!?!11oneoen! I BUILD NEW PHONE HOT AF"
09:36 AM Emil: :D
09:37 AM Emil: Oh
09:37 AM Emil: sorry
09:37 AM Emil: You were only talking about buying a recorder
09:37 AM Emil: that was my repressed memories surfacing
09:37 AM Emil: julius: if you can afford it, gopros are really good imo
09:38 AM Emil: https://shop.gopro.com/EMEA/cameras/hero-session/CHDHS-104-master.html
09:38 AM Emil: like that one
09:39 AM Emil: or an older generation version for even leess
09:39 AM Emil: julius: if you want an action camera, google "action camera"
09:39 AM Emil: don't go about the specs
09:39 AM Emil: like "cmos and digital video"
09:41 AM Emil: https://geizhals.eu/?cat=dvcamac&xf=5027_1920x1080&asuch=&bpmax=&v=e&hloc=at&hloc=de&hloc=pl&hloc=uk&hloc=eu&plz=&dist=&mail=&bl1_id=1000&sort=p
09:41 AM Emil: sort through there
09:44 AM Emil: julius: what's your end goal?
09:48 AM _ami_: julius: what if they reprint STM32 on those GD chips
09:49 AM Emil: https://www.wearechampionmag.com/4-best-chinese-gopro-alternatives
09:55 AM Lambda_Aurigae: avrdude, not me. I'm a xerox network analyst/engineer type person. I specialize in making xerox devices work with strange software, strange network setups, and generally fucked up configurations.
09:56 AM Lambda_Aurigae: avrdude, I have, in the past, done embedded systems consulting and design for home automation controllers and home/office security systems.
09:57 AM Lambda_Aurigae: mostly for a couple of small startups. didn't pay too well but I still get royalty payments once in a while from some devices I designed for them.
09:57 AM Lambda_Aurigae: considering making a line of control systems for KSP and other flight simulators.
09:59 AM julius: Emil: the best would be to record the video in x264 or 265. but i have found no chips that are affordable, so recording without compression would be fine for now. 60fps@720p - have to check if the camera really outputs 720p, the image didnt look that good
10:00 AM julius: Emil: the gopro would of course be nice...but its way to expensive for my taste
10:00 AM julius: Emil: lets take a look at your link
10:01 AM Lambda_Aurigae: _ami_, I have a couple of those cheap bluepill stm32 boards and they work as advertised. However, they seem to have twice the flash which is a known issue and can be worked with.
10:01 AM Emil: Only a quality control engineer would say a thing like that :D
10:02 AM Lambda_Aurigae: hehe
10:02 AM julius: twice the flash is a good thing, isnt it?
10:02 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I just made a couple of changes in some config files and it worked fine with the larger memory.
10:02 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yes, unless the extended flash is bad.
10:02 AM Emil: julius: welll
10:02 AM Emil: julius: it can be
10:03 AM Emil: If not even the chinese are claiming it has double the flash
10:03 AM Lambda_Aurigae: manufacturers have been known to make 1 chip, test, and disable portions, labeling the chip as 1 of 2 different models depending on what passed or failed.
10:03 AM Emil: then I wouldn't trust that double flash at all
10:03 AM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: not even "have been known"
10:03 AM julius: ah i see
10:03 AM Emil: it is common af
10:03 AM Emil: sad
10:03 AM Lambda_Aurigae: intel 486 sx vs dx was like that...486dx had a mathcoprocessor...so did the 486sx, but it failed testing so was disabled by literally blowing a fuse.
10:03 AM Emil: but fact
10:04 AM julius: like intel produces i5's and sells them at what their stress test shows
10:04 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yup.
10:04 AM Lambda_Aurigae: they clock each one up till it fails then backs it down to a known preset and marks it.
10:04 AM Emil: julius: it is especially important for the flash memory market
10:04 AM Emil: julius: apparently it is so competitive that you have to sell everything that comes out of your fab
10:05 AM Emil: that's why we nowadays have cheap af low capacity flash sticks
10:05 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I think they do that with some kinds of displays too....produce a big sheet, then if it has flaws, cut it down.
10:05 AM julius: someone i knew just plays around with overclocking...but hes more of a normal user than a geek. we told him that it will fuck up his system in the end....or could fuck up. but he doenst listen
10:05 AM Lambda_Aurigae: only if he overheats it.
10:05 AM Emil: well
10:05 AM Emil: it "can" stress die
10:05 AM Emil: but I mean
10:05 AM Emil: unlikely
10:05 AM Lambda_Aurigae: very much unlikely, unless,,,overheat
10:06 AM Lambda_Aurigae: good cooling will solve that pretty much.
10:06 AM julius: i was more concerned that he also works with the system for normal work, when it crashes data could be lost
10:06 AM julius: good to know
10:06 AM Emil: I mean if you have a silicon bug you could have a very small section that does not like fast switching
10:06 AM Lambda_Aurigae: well, software crash is normal with overclocking...
10:06 AM julius: not that my overclocking experiments went anywhere, the i5 i have just does not provide enough power to a gtx1060
10:06 AM Emil: the chip might run cool but locally you might have things that don't like the rapid changes
10:06 AM Lambda_Aurigae: clock it up, test the fuck out of it...clock it up, test the fuck out of it...wash, rinse, repeat until it don't work..then back it down a little.
10:07 AM julius: gonna keep that in mind
10:07 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and I would back it down 2 steps myself.
10:07 AM Lambda_Aurigae: then really test the fuck out of it.
10:07 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I just don't overclock my pc these days.
10:07 AM Lambda_Aurigae: mainly because I run all laptops.
10:08 AM julius: me neither, havent gamed for a while now
10:08 AM Lambda_Aurigae: oh, I game,,,but I don't run the newest most modern games.
10:08 AM Lambda_Aurigae: mostly KSP and X-plane
10:08 AM Snert_: been there, done that. No intrest now.
10:08 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and my i7 lappy works fine for those.
10:09 AM julius: x-plane looks nice
10:10 AM _ami_: Lambda_Aurigae: twice the flash is a good thing actually.
10:10 AM Emil: _ami_: depends
10:10 AM Emil: it can be
10:10 AM Lambda_Aurigae: _ami_, long as it is stable and no stuck bits.
10:10 AM _ami_: Lambda_Aurigae: those devices are sweet. i made few projects out of it. i was just worried of the fact if mine is the cloned ICs. i would buy the stm32 boards from st directly in this case.
10:11 AM Lambda_Aurigae: julius, it rocks...there is even a commercial training version that you can get actual flight school time with if you have the proper hardware at home.
10:11 AM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: wat
10:11 AM Lambda_Aurigae: _ami_, I paid like 2 dollars for them.
10:11 AM Lambda_Aurigae: each
10:12 AM _ami_: yes, 1.82$per board :)
10:12 AM _ami_: i got one board only. i plan to buy like 10 for doing various projects.
10:12 AM Lambda_Aurigae: Emil, x-plane...has a commercial training version...you pay for this dongle,,like 1000 dollars or something...and if you have the proper flight stick and pedals and stuff you can record flight time on it and submit it to your instructor.
10:12 AM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: absolute bollocks :D
10:13 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I know of 3 flight schools near me here that use x-plane in their instruction too.
10:14 AM daey: Lambda_Aurigae: is it also allowed to do your annual "minimum time to keep the license" in those sims?
10:14 AM Lambda_Aurigae: http://www.x-plane.com/pro/
10:14 AM Lambda_Aurigae: daey, not sure..probably not...it's more for early sim time training.
10:15 AM Lambda_Aurigae: x-plane was also used to model the white knight and spaceship one aircraft/spacecraft before they ever built it.
10:16 AM Lambda_Aurigae: Emil, it doesn't replace actual flight time but it can be used for official simulator time.
10:17 AM Emil: No but it's pretty good though
10:17 AM Emil: it is great that we can lower the cost of training by using simulators
10:18 AM Emil: I recently completed my long overdue third phase of divers license
10:18 AM Lambda_Aurigae: x-plane is also the most realistic flight model of any simulator for under 10000 dollars from what I understand.
10:18 AM Emil: cost 199€ exactly
10:18 AM Lambda_Aurigae: third phase?
10:18 AM Lambda_Aurigae: different from here in the states I guess.
10:18 AM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: it is somewhat cancerous here in Finlaned
10:19 AM Lambda_Aurigae: like 25 dollars or something for a drivers license here.
10:19 AM Emil: lololo
10:19 AM Lambda_Aurigae: pass the test and away you go.
10:19 AM Emil: Mine cost in total like 2700€
10:19 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and 4 dollars per year to renew.
10:19 AM _ami_: https://thepihut.com/products/flirc-usb-dongle-for-the-raspberry-pi
10:19 AM _ami_: someone should make a similar open hardware.
10:20 AM Emil: we don't have that but it costs 50€ to get the card from the police
10:20 AM Lambda_Aurigae: can be renewed for up to 4 years....and once renewed in the license bureau, you can do the next renew online.
10:20 AM _ami_: pretty much doable
10:20 AM _ami_: 20 pounds is too much for this.
10:21 AM Lambda_Aurigae: _ami_, we had usb ir interface for linux,,,,,15 years ago.
10:21 AM Lambda_Aurigae: or more.
10:21 AM Emil: _ami_: make your own?
10:21 AM Emil: _ami_: m32u4+ir receiver
10:21 AM Lambda_Aurigae: ok..not necessarily usb...but I did usb with one back then.
10:21 AM Lambda_Aurigae: called lirc
10:21 AM Emil: _ami_: total cost in parts like 2€
10:22 AM Emil: of course development time is not taken into account ;)
10:22 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I should make one with a cheap pic and see what happens.
10:22 AM Emil: Hmm
10:22 AM Lambda_Aurigae: pic16f1454 and an IR phototransistor..
10:22 AM Emil: I should start to source cp2102 or other usb to serial port chips
10:22 AM Lambda_Aurigae: no additional parts needed other than a board.
10:22 AM julius: Lambda_Aurigae: if you get your license, visit me sometime
10:22 AM julius: bbl
10:22 AM Lambda_Aurigae: julius, pilots license?
10:23 AM _ami_: I have already made one but its not universal... i have paired it with Samsung Tv remote. just wonder how to support almost all remote vendors?
10:23 AM Lambda_Aurigae: not happening. I'm diabetic on injected insulin. I might can get a light sport license.
10:23 AM _ami_: i have used stm32 + ir recv.
10:23 AM Lambda_Aurigae: _ami_, that's a matter of doing a "learning remote"
10:23 AM Lambda_Aurigae: or learning host really.
10:24 AM _ami_: Lambda_Aurigae: recognizing the protocol type"?
10:24 AM _ami_: and have the code to support most vendors?
10:25 AM _ami_: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8DZ9tKXwAMY2Mm.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8DaD5VX0AEQEq1.jpg
10:25 AM _ami_: i made usb IR- hid remote basically. so its pluggable and works without any drivers (or lirc)
10:25 AM Emil: _ami_: don't stm32s have like integrated ir peripheral? :D
10:26 AM Lambda_Aurigae: _ami_, it's all about picking out the bits...that can be done on the PC side of it really...
10:27 AM _ami_: yes, thats true
10:27 AM Lambda_Aurigae: feed the stream in through a CDC serial port and away you go.
10:30 AM polprog: i would just take a IR diode and photodiode combo, some preamps and hook it up directly to RS232
10:30 AM polprog: for starters
10:31 AM Lambda_Aurigae: as many people have said in the past, who has serial ports these days?
10:31 AM Lambda_Aurigae: hehe
10:31 AM Lambda_Aurigae: other than my i7 laptop.
10:31 AM Lambda_Aurigae: no parallel port though.
10:32 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but that's what the docking station is for.
10:32 AM polprog: hehe, an expresscard serial port card is the first thing i buy to my new lappy when i get it
10:32 AM polprog: you cal always use some usb-serial chip anyway
10:34 AM Emil: polprog: pls no
10:34 AM Emil: to all 4 of your previous messages :D
10:34 AM Lambda_Aurigae: polprog, hence the pic16f1454 playing usb-serial adapter.
10:34 AM polprog: Emil: i was thinking about making a simple analog-audio-over-fibre
10:34 AM Emil: Except usb serial chips
10:35 AM Emil: polprog: analog audio?
10:35 AM polprog: non-digital
10:35 AM Emil: you mean continuous intensity modulation?
10:35 AM polprog: like AM but for light
10:35 AM Emil: yeah
10:35 AM polprog: or even not am
10:35 AM Emil: continuous intensity modulation
10:35 AM polprog: yeah
10:35 AM Emil: I mean
10:35 AM Emil: try it
10:35 AM Emil: why not
10:36 AM Emil: but
10:36 AM Emil: why? :D
10:36 AM polprog: ive seen people doing it with lasers on 300m range
10:36 AM Emil: aah
10:36 AM polprog: just for shits and giggles
10:36 AM polprog: i mean research
10:36 AM Emil: you might want to do digital
10:36 AM polprog: not yet
10:36 AM Emil: digital is easier :D
10:37 AM Emil: but true, analog is conceptually nicer perhaps
10:37 AM Emil: polprog: you need a "fast" adjustable constant current source
10:38 AM polprog: 40khz is "fast"?
10:38 AM polprog: lel
10:38 AM polprog: or maybe i should say 40ksps
10:38 AM Emil: that's not the same ;)
10:38 AM Emil: you also need to think about settling time and ripple
10:39 AM polprog: it's not gonna be a 1M eur audio transceiver
10:39 AM Emil: hehe
10:39 AM polprog: the aim is to make a fibre receiver with a speaker that will play whatever waveform it's given
10:39 AM Emil: but you'll still need to think about it
10:39 AM polprog: if it sounds like a regular phone speaker it's not a problem
10:40 AM polprog: the first thing i need to do is to get a fiber cable with sockets
10:45 AM polprog: damnit
10:45 AM polprog: my gas hot air tool cant ignite
10:46 AM polprog: im not sure if there's gas inside
10:46 AM polprog: because i tried both lighter refill cand
10:46 AM polprog: cans*; and i have no idea if they have gas
10:46 AM polprog: s/gas/propane/g
10:46 AM polprog: stupid english :P
11:04 AM skz81: polprog, "gas" is OK here. I just checked and google says it can even fit for "vaporous speech" (blah-blah-blah)
11:06 AM polprog: ;)
11:39 AM julius: Lambda_Aurigae: yes
11:40 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I didn' do it!
11:41 AM julius: oh yes you did
11:41 AM julius: ;)
11:41 AM julius: what?
11:41 AM julius: oh the license
11:41 AM Lambda_Aurigae: hehe.
11:41 AM julius: thought you were talking about the "minimal netsplit"
11:41 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah, in this country you can't get a full pilots license if you are insulin dependent
11:42 AM julius: the us of a?
11:42 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yup.
11:42 AM Lambda_Aurigae: unless they have changed the law on that in the last couple of years.
11:42 AM julius: ok, sometimes they have usefull rules
11:42 AM Lambda_Aurigae: last I checked I could get a light sport license.
11:42 AM Lambda_Aurigae: either way, wifey would never go for me getting a pilots license...way too expensive
11:43 AM julius: you know how expensive flying is fuel wise?
11:44 AM julius: i would image the fuel itself takes a arm or two to pay off
11:44 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yup.
11:44 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I do
11:44 AM julius: maybe even a arm32 ;)
11:44 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I have 3 customers who are flight schools.
11:44 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I have looked into it.
11:44 AM julius: ah
11:44 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I would love to get an ultralight
11:45 AM julius: just curios, what does 1 hour of flight cost?
11:45 AM Lambda_Aurigae: no license required...runs on regular petrol.
11:45 AM julius: just the fuel
11:45 AM Lambda_Aurigae: training on a cessna 172 is about 140 dollars an hour
11:46 AM Lambda_Aurigae: about half of that is fuel.
11:46 AM julius: not as expensive as i thoguht
11:46 AM julius: jesus, my typing is bad today
11:49 AM specing: Why don't you train on an electric plane?
11:49 AM specing: cheaper fuel
11:49 AM Lambda_Aurigae: more expensive plane
11:49 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but, I don't know of any commercial ones off the top of my head.
11:49 AM specing: yeah but if it is flown several hours per day every day...
11:50 AM specing: http://www.pipistrel.si/plane/alpha-electro/overview
11:50 AM specing: electric trainer
12:03 PM cehteh: https://github.com/rswier/c4 .. ineteresting
12:10 PM Lambda_Aurigae: cehteh, how complete is it?
12:11 PM cehteh: very little of course
12:11 PM cehteh: interesting as in intereresting, not useful
12:11 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I still like picoC C interpreter
12:12 PM cehteh: yes
12:12 PM cehteh: well dunno if C is the best language to interpret
12:12 PM Lambda_Aurigae: never got it to fit on the atmega1284p though.
12:12 PM Lambda_Aurigae: it's not, but it's fun.
12:12 PM polprog: tsktsk it's not
12:12 PM cehteh: some forth-alike might be better
12:12 PM polprog: i need to get into forth after i finish asm
12:12 PM Lambda_Aurigae: but that would require me to learn yet another language.
01:24 PM polprog: what ide would you recomend?
01:24 PM polprog: im sitting on emacs + make flash
01:25 PM polprog: eclipse avr tools were... let's say usable
01:25 PM NoHitWonder^: atmel studio 7
01:26 PM Emil: polprog: >ide
01:26 PM Emil: polprog:
01:26 PM Emil: You were the chosen one! It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them.
01:26 PM Emil: You were to bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness!
01:27 PM polprog: lol
01:27 PM Emil: Don't
01:27 PM Emil: fucking
01:27 PM Emil: do
01:27 PM Emil: it
01:27 PM Emil: But really if you absolutely want an IDE and are a winshit faggot then Atmel Studio is "okay". Atleast it enjoys good support
01:28 PM Emil: But don't be stupid
01:28 PM Emil: A text-editor+toolchain are everything you need
01:28 PM Emil: and most flexible
01:28 PM polprog: im just afraid that one project will grow to big to be sustainabl
01:28 PM polprog: but i think youre right
01:28 PM rue_bed: why would you use the atmel ide, its full of problems
01:28 PM polprog: so another question
01:29 PM polprog: my avr-gcc invocation has "*.s *.c" as the input
01:29 PM polprog: can i just make it main.c and include the assembly files in the c file
01:29 PM rue_bed: I swear, if I were to search the logs and tally up all the questions about problems with avr studio that ended in 'your screwed'...
01:29 PM polprog: so i just include the new files
01:29 PM Emil: If you want autocomplete and things then learn vim and try something like https://github.com/nottwo/avr-vim
01:30 PM Emil: polprog: yes you can
01:30 PM polprog: no, im fine with no autocomplete
01:30 PM polprog: Emil: let me try
01:30 PM Emil: whatcha need an ide for then?
01:30 PM polprog: just asking if you people use one
01:30 PM rue_bed: there are lots of better ides
01:30 PM rue_bed: no I use a text editor that has C hilighting
01:30 PM Emil: rue_bed: vim?
01:30 PM rue_bed: and a makefile
01:30 PM rue_bed: nedit
01:31 PM rue_bed: there are lots of better code editors, I agree
01:31 PM Emil: never heard
01:31 PM rue_bed: its got an AWESOME macro system
01:31 PM Emil: I should write my own terminal application / text editor
01:31 PM rue_bed: you can train / repeat
01:31 PM Emil: nice
01:31 PM rue_bed: and to regex search/replace
01:32 PM rue_bed: and edit the regexes for the syntax hilighting
01:32 PM polprog: Emil: one more time and i will grep the log for "i should write my own"
01:32 PM polprog: you cant just go around and rewrite stuff
01:32 PM polprog: dont reinvent the wheel
01:32 PM rue_bed: pfff
01:32 PM rue_bed: SOMEONE MAKE A WHEEL THATS NOT SQUARE!!!! PLEAAAAASE!
01:33 PM polprog: triangle?
01:33 PM rue_bed: my editiors not finished
01:33 PM rue_bed: been that way for about 17 years now
01:34 PM Emil: polprog: do it
01:34 PM rue_bed: ok, its 11am, I need to get up
01:34 PM polprog: the wheel?
01:34 PM rue_bed: I was only up till 3
01:35 PM Emil: polprog: you also need to to use -i since I respect grammar to an extend ;)
01:35 PM Emil: huehuehue
01:35 PM polprog: what
01:35 PM polprog: i dont get it
01:35 PM Emil: Anytime now
01:36 PM rue_bed: oh ****, I guess yesterday is over
01:36 PM Emil: You can say your preferred swear words here
01:36 PM Emil: We are not #raspberrypi
01:37 PM polprog: ffffff....F..ploppers
01:37 PM polprog: meanwhile on #raspberrypi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwJheWwW7rw
01:39 PM Emil: >printer
01:40 PM Emil: is that Lambda_Aurigae there
01:40 PM Emil: but only preferred
01:40 PM polprog: ffs im trying to change the font used by emacs and there are bloody 30 fonts differed
01:40 PM Emil: I'll make a sheet where you can enter your preferred swear word
01:40 PM Emil: and you must stick to it
01:41 PM Emil: psst
01:41 PM Emil: hey kiddo
01:41 PM Emil: use vim instead
01:41 PM polprog: i tried
01:41 PM Emil: and?
01:41 PM Emil: I mean
01:41 PM polprog: i managed to write hello world in c
01:41 PM polprog: and i managed to save and exit
01:41 PM Emil: I don't know how to use vim for shit
01:41 PM Emil: but I understa
01:41 PM Emil: wait
01:41 PM polprog: and i was pissed
01:42 PM Emil: you managed to exit
01:42 PM Emil: And save?
01:42 PM Emil: That's some advanced shit right there
01:42 PM polprog: smash esc several times
01:42 PM Emil: anycase
01:42 PM polprog: :wq
01:42 PM polprog: ;)
01:42 PM Emil: It's only a matter of learning by doing
01:42 PM rue_shop3: well, damn, use a gui editor, one that does syntax hilighting
01:42 PM Emil: I mean, I can use nano quite well but only because I do use it
01:42 PM polprog: nano is cool
01:43 PM Emil: nano is absolutely kawaii :3
01:43 PM polprog: my emas is not running in terminal does that count rue_shop3
01:43 PM rue_shop3: if the amount of text I change when talking on the internet is any measure, its not a wonder I stutter sometimes
01:43 PM rue_shop3: emacs is a monster that fits in no catagory
01:43 PM Emil: rue_bed: how many irc pcs do you have exactly?
01:43 PM Emil: polprog: here's a challenge
01:44 PM Emil: polprog: config init to only start emacs and nothing else :D
01:44 PM polprog: rue_shop3: rue_bed rue_house
01:44 PM polprog: 3
01:44 PM rue_shop3: the one in bed, the one at the desk, this is the main one in the shop, and one at each of the other two shop workstations
01:44 PM Emil: or even better replace init with emacs
01:44 PM polprog: Emil: doable
01:44 PM rue_shop3: there is no init anymore
01:44 PM Emil: rue_bed: but why?
01:44 PM rue_shop3: you been obsoleted, its sysd now
01:44 PM rue_shop3: Emil, do I dont have to mess with stuff
01:45 PM rue_shop3: <do>
01:45 PM rue_shop3: lsadjfkjhasdf
01:45 PM Emil: Oh yeah it's systemshit känser nowadays
01:45 PM rue_shop3: /do/so/
01:45 PM Emil: rue_shop3: well
01:45 PM polprog: i find swriting unit files for systemd easy
01:45 PM Emil: why not just run a server?
01:45 PM polprog: yeah
01:45 PM rue_shop3: Emil, its more trouble
01:45 PM rue_shop3: maintenance
01:46 PM Emil: I think maintaining 5 different computers is more trouble
01:46 PM rue_shop3: its like adding another bolt to an already-well-held-on wheel
01:46 PM polprog: yes! i found the parent face, of which all faces inherit
01:46 PM rue_shop3: the bed computer is there so I can code till I fall asleep
01:46 PM rue_shop3: the desk computer is there so I dont have to be in bed to use a computer
01:46 PM Emil: rue_shop3: ah so you are the borg of this universe?
01:46 PM rue_shop3: the shop gets a lot of people using it,
01:47 PM polprog: terminus <#
01:47 PM polprog: <3
01:47 PM rue_shop3: there are two main workstations that run printers and stuff, and a station at the soldering station cause having to run back and forth to the other computers for datasheets sucks
01:47 PM Emil: polprog: what's that?
01:48 PM polprog: it the main font
01:48 PM rue_shop3: how long you want to analyze my setup before you find out my solution is just fine
01:48 PM Emil: ah
01:48 PM Emil: rue_shop3: I have already determined it to be silly and way more trouble
01:48 PM polprog: because you know, you can have courier as a main but the setting are so granular you can customize the font with whih it prints the compilation errors
01:48 PM Emil: and using a server based solution would be better
02:01 PM JanC_ is now known as JanC
02:06 PM polprog: what color would you make variables in?
02:09 PM Emil: polprog: declaration in green
02:09 PM polprog: i like green-amber-yellow-red
02:09 PM Emil: https://emil.fi/jako/kuvat/2017-05-22_21-39-47_ifePKgdN.png
02:10 PM polprog: scheme
02:10 PM Emil: Though I have not bothered to change the nano color scheme
02:10 PM Emil: I like solarized blue / cobalt gedit uses quite a lot
02:11 PM Emil: polprog: if you use nano anywhere
02:11 PM Emil: I recommend
02:11 PM Emil: https://github.com/scopatz/nanorc
02:17 PM julius: anybody wanna bet how long trump stays in the white house? scandals seem to follow him
02:19 PM Emil: the whole 4 years
02:20 PM polprog: https://puu.sh/vYgGX/ce731c45e6.png
02:20 PM polprog: what do you think?
02:22 PM Emil: hmm
02:22 PM Emil: well variables and function names have quite close coloring
02:22 PM Emil: and #defines are very light
02:23 PM Emil: I'm also partial to defined names being in red
02:23 PM specing: julius: 8 years
02:23 PM polprog: #defines and includes are ok on my screen
02:23 PM Emil: polprog: also
02:23 PM Emil: pls
02:23 PM Emil: >for(;;)
02:23 PM Emil: >not while(1)
02:23 PM Emil: absolute disgusting
02:24 PM polprog: variables are gold, types are lime, methods gree
02:24 PM polprog: why not for
02:24 PM Emil: s/te/tely/
02:24 PM polprog: loop: {...}; goto loop
02:24 PM polprog: /s
02:24 PM Emil: even better than that horrible for(;;)
02:24 PM polprog: watch out for the dinos
02:24 PM Emil: I have actually used goto seriously
02:25 PM polprog: honestly it was long night and i could not remember if true was 1 or 0
02:25 PM polprog: [/endshame]
02:25 PM Emil: excusemewhat
02:25 PM Emil: mate
02:25 PM Emil: how can you even
02:25 PM Emil: I cannot even
02:25 PM polprog: java
02:25 PM polprog: sorry
02:25 PM Emil: :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
02:25 PM polprog: what's wrong with for
02:25 PM Emil: It's okay
02:25 PM Emil: I forgive you
02:25 PM Emil: polprog: everything
02:25 PM polprog: i disassembled the thing and it just does jmp i think..
02:25 PM polprog: brb
02:25 PM polprog: supper
02:26 PM Emil: polprog: yes it will be translated to the same asm as while()
02:26 PM Emil: but really, for(;;) is syntax cancer
02:26 PM Emil: I'm surprised it is even allowed in C
02:26 PM Emil: probably a quirk from the old days
02:26 PM Emil: I would ban it instantly
02:26 PM Emil: why?
02:28 PM polprog: well
02:28 PM Emil: because the for syntax is: for(init code; test code; after every loop code)
02:28 PM polprog: i guess i will use while or do{}while();
02:28 PM Emil: if you leave test code out it is indeterminate
02:28 PM polprog: then
02:28 PM Emil: that's fine
02:28 PM polprog: ;)
02:29 PM polprog: you know the syntactic sugar while(x-->10){}? "x goes to 10"
02:29 PM polprog: lel
02:29 PM Emil: that's not syntax sugar
02:29 PM polprog: whatever
02:29 PM polprog: brb
02:29 PM Emil: lol
02:30 PM Emil: that's also not "x goes to 10", it is x goes down to 10
02:31 PM julius: specing: 8 years? theres a chance that he will fire a nuke before that...
02:31 PM Emil: lol
02:31 PM Emil: like anyone would launch a nuke
02:31 PM julius: its trump
02:32 PM Emil: and?
02:32 PM Emil: this "trump launches nukes" is only a late addition to his media bashing characteristic
02:32 PM Emil: made only to bash him
02:33 PM Emil: you do realise that, right?
02:33 PM specing: julius: but that would level his hotels
02:33 PM specing: he wants money not dead people
02:34 PM specing: dead people can't rent his hotel rooms
02:34 PM rue_house: if the nukes were made in the usa, its prolly nothing to worry about
02:34 PM rue_house: if they were made in any other country they might work
02:44 PM polprog: Emil: so what do you think about the theme?
02:44 PM polprog: what do you all think
02:46 PM Emil: polprog: I already said
02:46 PM Emil: But I am biased
02:46 PM Emil: If you can clearly distinquish the colours the it's fine as long as you like it
02:46 PM Emil: You'll notice quickly if something is wrong and then tweak it
02:46 PM Emil: I know from experience
02:47 PM polprog: :)
02:47 PM polprog: oh i just noticed my emacs install has git support
02:47 PM polprog: how cool is that
02:48 PM LeoNerd: Yeah. emacs isn't a bad operating system. It's just missing a decent text editor really
02:48 PM polprog: :D
02:51 PM specing: M-x lart-leonerd
03:04 PM polprog: so i opened up a teminal in emacs
03:04 PM polprog: and i did git commit
03:04 PM polprog: i had editor set to emacs
03:04 PM polprog: so i got emacs in emacs :P
03:09 PM polprog: https://i1.jbzdy.pl/contents/2017/05/10f0a2dcde9cc8238ba343a8634974a3.jpg
03:10 PM Emil: Not half bad
03:10 PM Emil: I can see that being useful for some fringe case
03:10 PM polprog: are you talking about emacsception or the pic?
03:11 PM specing: polprog: why? Emacs can do git by itself
03:11 PM polprog: specing: havent tried that yet
03:13 PM Emil: polprog: pic ;)
03:20 PM polprog: ..ture
03:28 PM polprog: *true
03:29 PM Lambda_Aurigae: but, can you run vi in emacs?
03:30 PM Emil: yes
03:30 PM Emil: yes you can
03:30 PM Lambda_Aurigae: only way I would find it useful.
03:42 PM megal0maniac is now known as Guest59865
03:44 PM polprog: night!
03:55 PM xentrac: so I finally got around to looking through the pile of boards from discarded lab equipment I picked up the other day
03:55 PM xentrac: aside from the power electronics, including some pulse transformers (I think?) almost the size of my fist, there were a bunch of socketed PALs and tiny SRAMs
03:55 PM xentrac: 15-nanosecond PALCE16V8 PALs!
03:55 PM xentrac: so I can reprogram them! At least in theory
03:56 PM xentrac: I was hoping for some high-speed opamps and ADCs, but no, nothing of the sort
03:56 PM Lambda_Aurigae: how high speed is high speed?
03:57 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I can probably come up with 50 or so never used 50MHz opamps.
03:57 PM Lambda_Aurigae: DMOS opamps as I recall.
03:57 PM xentrac: 50MHz would be totally reasonable. but sending them to Argentina is probably not practical
03:57 PM Lambda_Aurigae: hehe.
03:57 PM xentrac: although I guess 50MHz is probably the GBW, right?
03:58 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I could glue little googlie eyes on them and sell them to you as ornaments.
03:58 PM xentrac: that would still be fine I guess
03:58 PM Lambda_Aurigae: GBW?
03:58 PM xentrac: gain-bandwidth product
03:58 PM xentrac: i.e. you can't actually use them at 50MHz
03:58 PM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah, dunno.
03:58 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I'm not real big on them.
03:58 PM xentrac: if you use them at 25MHz the gain is limited to 2
03:58 PM Lambda_Aurigae: have had them for about 12 years or so.
03:58 PM xentrac: I'm trying to figure out how to program these PALs
03:59 PM Lambda_Aurigae: with a friendly programmer?
03:59 PM xentrac: the Lattice datasheet just says "buy a PAL programmer, dodo"
03:59 PM Lambda_Aurigae: weren't they serial port programmed?
03:59 PM xentrac: dunno!
03:59 PM Lambda_Aurigae: oh..that kind..yeah, jtagish most likely.
03:59 PM xentrac: it doesn't help with programming waveforms and voltages and whatnot
04:00 PM xentrac: Cypress has a datasheet that says the programming voltage is 12.5V but that's for their Flash replacement parts
04:00 PM xentrac: which they still sell!
04:02 PM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah..older flash needed high voltage to write.
04:02 PM xentrac: hm, maybe not; Digi-Key says, "Part Status: Obsolete; Quantity available: 0" and doesn't list a price
04:02 PM Lambda_Aurigae: ebay time.
04:02 PM xentrac: "You may also be interested in: ATF16V8B-15PU"
04:03 PM Lambda_Aurigae: that's kinda like all the FPGAs I have here.
04:03 PM Lambda_Aurigae: no way to unsolder the BGA package and put them on useful boards.
04:03 PM Lambda_Aurigae: but I have literally dozens of them.
04:03 PM Lambda_Aurigae: out of copiers.
04:03 PM xentrac: bummer
04:03 PM xentrac: there are people who do that though
04:04 PM xentrac: yeah, apparently the ATV16V8 is in fact a compatible part that is still sold
04:04 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I also have a pile of motor controllers that don't have exact parts match anywhere in the known internet-i-verse.
04:05 PM xentrac: because they're custom parts for Xerox?
04:05 PM Lambda_Aurigae: probably.
04:05 PM Lambda_Aurigae: STK672-553
04:08 PM xentrac: I've noticed that most Minebea motors have a part number suffix identifying the customer and perhaps specific product they were manufactured for
04:08 PM xentrac: I wonder if the -553 is the same kind of thing
04:09 PM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah...probably.
04:09 PM Lambda_Aurigae: might have found a similar one just now though.
04:09 PM Lambda_Aurigae: counted the pins..12 of them...looking through various stk672 parts.
04:09 PM Lambda_Aurigae: stk672-210
04:09 PM Lambda_Aurigae: looks right.
04:10 PM Lambda_Aurigae: should trace one down and see if the pinout is anything like correct.
04:16 PM xentrac: cool :)
04:16 PM xentrac: the pinout might be arbitrarily tweaked in a case like that
04:17 PM xentrac: I mean you don't even need to change die designs to tweak the pinout, just where the bond wires bonded to
04:17 PM xentrac: http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public/Pgmrs/GAL/algo.htm explains how I can program the PALs
04:21 PM Lambda_Aurigae: kewl
04:21 PM Lambda_Aurigae: and, yeah. I'm very familiar with custom chips.
04:33 PM xentrac: sorry, didn't mean to talk down. I'm sure you know more than I do!
04:53 PM Smasher816: Any of you guys use cmake?
04:54 PM Smasher816: if I do "avr-objdump" on my output elf I get "DYNAMIC SYMBOL TABLE: no symbols"
04:54 PM Smasher816: I've tried adding -g to my CMAKE_C_FLAGSS
04:54 PM Smasher816: and set(CMAKE_BUILD_TYPE Debug)
04:57 PM Smasher816: nm and readelf show stuff though
05:03 PM Smasher816: actually nvm, "objdump -g" does show stuff, it's just "-T" that does not
05:30 PM day__ is now known as daey
06:01 PM Smasher816: sooo if I type "s, s, s" into avr-gdb the last step never seems to finish
06:01 PM Smasher816: if I type continue after a reset then I'm stuck at 0x0000
06:02 PM Smasher816: but if I do a combination of steps and continues, then manually break with ^C then I hit my main breakpoint
06:02 PM Smasher816: I don't understand why its acting so strange at all
06:19 PM Emil: It's dark magic
06:20 PM Emil: Why do you need the debugging?
06:20 PM Emil: also I've heard that people like simavr
06:21 PM Smasher816: I've ran into one random issue that printf debugging hasn't solved. Not a huge issue though
06:21 PM Smasher816: it was more of me just wanting to play around with it since I got a free jtagice3
06:21 PM Emil: AH
06:21 PM Emil: Ah*
06:21 PM Emil: Also never use printf or anything from stdio.h
06:22 PM Smasher816: I don't either, it takes a ton of program space
06:22 PM Smasher816: but you get the idea :P
06:27 PM Emil: ah
06:27 PM Emil: :D
06:27 PM Emil: Yeah
06:29 PM Smasher816: if I use "-C" on the command line to "Capture running program" then it seems to consistently be at the asm("break") point I added
06:29 PM Smasher816: but the continue command seems to be causing it it to "read() timed out"
10:38 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L