#avr Logs
Apr 10 2017
#avr Calendar
12:04 AM JanC is now known as Guest16348
12:06 AM JanC_ is now known as JanC
03:12 AM Emil: specing: where is that thing you promsed
03:12 AM Emil: it feels iike bamboozling here
03:48 AM polprog: i think this can be done with opamps, purely
03:48 AM polprog: ping specing
04:02 AM specing: polprog: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=48961
04:02 AM specing: polprog: yeah buy opamps ain't that fun
04:02 AM specing: but*
04:03 AM specing: Emil: e.g. Ada has inline assembly as part of the standard
04:04 AM specing: and has had it for 40 years
04:26 AM Emil: And?
04:26 AM Emil: C supports inline just fine, too
04:26 AM Emil: I mean
04:27 AM Emil: C is retarded on some design principles, too
04:27 AM Emil: if I could I would remove all types like char, int, long and so on
04:28 AM Emil: and replace them with uint8_t int8_t and so on
04:28 AM Emil: _t is not even needed
04:28 AM Emil: I'd also introduce compile time checks like rust has
04:29 AM LiaoTao: Emil: Agreed
04:29 AM LiaoTao: Ambiguity is really bad for robustness
04:30 AM Emil: hmm, what else
04:31 AM Jartza: I still like C, but granted that those original types are idiotic
04:32 AM Emil: Oh also order of operations
04:32 AM Emil: They would be made more reasonable
04:32 AM Jartza: sometimes yes, but oh well
04:32 AM Emil: I love C
04:32 AM Jartza: everybody should use C99 stdint.h types
04:33 AM Jartza: but I guess the age shows in C
04:33 AM Jartza: and really hard to deprecate features to maintain downwards compatibility in a language :)
04:37 AM Emil: imho it is okay to introduce breaking changes on a new version
04:37 AM Emil: If you want to use older syntax you can use an older version
04:38 AM Emil: And because we are compiling to binary, it doesnt matter what version you use for perf, really
04:38 AM LiaoTao: I don't think that's what the motivating factor is
04:39 AM LiaoTao: A huge boon and curse has been the portability of C between different toolchains
04:39 AM LiaoTao: Which has nothing to do with performance per se
04:39 AM xentrac: I prefer naming the types u32, s32, u16, s16, etc.
04:40 AM xentrac: although I admit the last C or C++ program I wrote used `int`
04:40 AM _ami_: xentrac: linux kernel also follows the same naming
04:40 AM xentrac: http://canonical.org/~kragen/sw/dev3/leveldb-62m.cc
04:40 AM _ami_: u32/u16 etcs are less common in applicaitons or middleware libraries
04:41 AM Emil: xentrac: those are better
04:42 AM Emil: _ami_: they are still better imho
04:42 AM _ami_: yes, it is.
04:42 AM _ami_: i agree.
04:42 AM Emil: Most just arent aware of them
04:42 AM xentrac: there's also the issue that lots of times there's no reason to pay the performance tax for 32-bit arithmetic on the AVR, but if I'm running the same code under Linux I might actually have more than a few kilobytes of data:)
04:44 AM specing: Emil: see, you want Ada
04:45 AM specing: Emil: Ada fully supports making inline proofs of correctness
04:45 AM specing: along with compile time checks and runtime checks (e.g. exception on overflow)
04:46 AM xentrac: specing, you would not say things like that if you knew what a "proof of correctness" was
04:48 AM specing: sure, I've never used "that" part of Ada, just know that "something like that" is there
04:50 AM xentrac: more to the point, you've never used a theorem prover of any kind, so you don't even know what "something like that" would consist of or what it would mean for Ada to have it or not
04:51 AM xentrac: so you're just repeating hearsay that you haven't properly understood
04:57 AM specing: you could better use the time for proving me wrong by trying Ada
04:58 AM specing: and it is not really hearsay: http://university.adacore.com/courses/lessons/spark-2014-proof-of-functional-correctness/
04:58 AM specing: and yes, I don't think I've ever used a theorem prover
05:33 AM skz81: <Emil> imho it is okay to introduce breaking changes on a new version >> talk to python users....
05:34 AM skz81: the API break with python3.0 was really painful
09:35 AM Emil: skz81: well, the version 2 had really retarded design selections :D
09:47 AM rue_house: everyone is doing it,
09:48 AM rue_house: libncurses used the same function names with completely different params one version change
09:48 AM rue_house: and libqt does it ALL THE TIME
09:48 AM Emil: rue_house: those are libproblems
09:48 AM LeoNerd: That's what the first of the three digits in the SONAME is for
09:49 AM Emil: and with libs I completely agree that you donr fuckinh break the api
09:49 AM rue_house: people who use the same function name, and completely change the params to the call should hae to do the porting of every peice of software that uses it
09:49 AM LeoNerd: SONAME
09:50 AM rue_house: any idiot knows you make a new function name, and provide the old call for backwards compat.
09:53 AM rue_house: it trickles in annoying ways
09:54 AM rue_house: you have to have the web browser released yesterday to not see messages on every website saying the browser your using isn't supported
09:54 AM rue_house: on debian, by debian means, you cant even get a program unless its atleast 2 years old
01:05 PM polprog: rue_house: that's on debian stable i think,
01:05 PM polprog: from my experience you get newer stuff on testing
01:05 PM polprog: but it was unstable as hell on my old lappy
01:45 PM enhering: Hi. Good afternoon.
01:47 PM polprog: good evening
01:48 PM enhering: This round world thing is so complex...
01:50 PM bss36504: Everyone knows the earth is flat
01:51 PM bss36504: there are supporters of that idea around the globe
01:52 PM enhering: In spherical coordinates it is almost flat
01:58 PM enhering: Or isn't?
01:58 PM Chillum: fun fact: over 2/3rds of flat earthers know they are wrong and just enjoy arguing with people
02:00 PM enhering: flat brainers...
02:00 PM Lambda_Aurigae: Chillum, replace 2/3 with 9/10 and flat earthers with humans
02:01 PM enhering: true, Lambda_Aurigae
02:02 PM Chillum: I am one of those lucky 1/10 that does not know he is wrong
02:03 PM Lambda_Aurigae: 4 out of 5 people are sane...check your 4 closest friends..if they are sane, check yourself into the asylum TODAY!
02:06 PM bss36504: Well if I know that I am right, what group does that put me in?
02:08 PM enhering: Talking about sanity, do you think carabia has died?
02:08 PM enhering: Trolls die too, don't they?
02:17 PM enhering: <NickServ> Information on carabia (account carabia):
02:17 PM enhering: 3:47 PM Registered : Apr 13 14:54:52 2016 (51w 5d 3h ago)
02:17 PM enhering: 3:47 PM Last addr : ~carabia@unaffiliated/carabia
02:17 PM enhering: 3:47 PM Last seen : Feb 18 01:30:46 2017 (7w 2d 17h ago)
02:19 PM polprog: who's carabia
03:21 PM polprog: looks like most of the cells are alive, time to get a li-ion holder
03:23 PM bss36504: enhering: idk, though carabia wasn't that bad imo. definitely a bit of a troll but also pretty useful sometimes
03:25 PM enhering: He is a good person. I just wonder why he has not returned yet
03:25 PM enhering: It is Lambda_Aurigae 's fault
03:25 PM enhering: He banned carabia forever
03:26 PM bss36504: oh really? I thought it was only a temporary kick
03:30 PM polprog: that 4313 looks like a nice thing to flash leds and stuff
03:30 PM polprog: maybe pair it with a multichannel pwm driver or maybe even an RGB display
03:31 PM polprog: it might have too little ram for the display
03:34 PM LeoNerd: The tiny2313 is a weird chip to work out what to do with
03:34 PM LeoNerd: Very little RAM, almost no peripherals of any use what so ever... but 17 GPIO pins
03:34 PM polprog: 4313 looks like an older brother
03:34 PM LeoNerd: About the only thing I could think of to use it for is an LED matrix scanner
03:35 PM polprog: it has full usart, that usi thingy, pwm and stuff
03:36 PM polprog: one question though, if you disable /reset via a fuse, how do you reprogram it?
03:37 PM cehteh: high voltage programming
03:37 PM polprog: maybe i'll force myself to learn assembly
03:41 PM specing: you should
03:41 PM polprog: i'm sure i should!
03:41 PM specing: LeoNerd: simple: PCM
03:48 PM LeoNerd: PCM? Do you perhaps mean PWM?
03:50 PM specing: no, PCM
03:50 PM specing: or BMS
03:51 PM specing: the thing I've suggested yesterday
03:54 PM Emil: enhering: bss36504 wait what, Carabia was kicked? :D
03:54 PM Emil: What for?
04:04 PM polprog: specing, the battery thingie?
04:06 PM polprog: i think i'll do that in opamps, i feel stronger in avrs and i wanna learn the basic electronics better
04:06 PM specing: yup
04:09 PM polprog: now time to make a small breakout for that 4313
04:09 PM polprog: for tomorrow
04:11 PM specing: damn ya fast
04:17 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I banned nobody. I have no power here.
04:21 PM specing: KHAJIT IS INNOCENT!
04:23 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I haven't been innocent for nearly 28 years and depending on the definition, probably longer than that.
04:29 PM arij is now known as arij_work
04:47 PM bss36504: Emil: Yeah I thought so, and heard it was Lambda_Aurigae 's fault, though I'm taking no sides ;)
04:53 PM Lambda_Aurigae: it's always my fault.
04:54 PM Tom_itx: damn tootin it is...
04:55 PM Tom_itx: oh i remember that
04:55 PM Tom_itx: he chose not to return
04:56 PM Tom_itx: he wasn't banned
04:56 PM * Tom_itx still blames Lambda_Aurigae for it though
05:04 PM Lambda_Aurigae: he just got kicked
05:04 PM Lambda_Aurigae: then never came back.
05:04 PM Lambda_Aurigae: no skin off my teeth.
05:05 PM Tom_itx: nor mine
05:06 PM Tom_itx: he pm'd me
05:06 PM Tom_itx: i think it hurt his ego
05:35 PM Emil: but
05:35 PM Emil: why
05:35 PM Emil: was
05:35 PM Emil: he
05:35 PM Emil: kicked? :D
05:39 PM Emil: Tom_itx: this is all your fault
05:39 PM Emil: http://emojipedia-us.s3.amazonaws.com/cache/dc/0e/dc0e68ac048dff9af2bac267012fe95a.png
05:46 PM Lambda_Aurigae: he was being an idiot as I recall.
05:46 PM Lambda_Aurigae: worse than usual.
06:06 PM Emil: intetesting
06:07 PM Emil: I wonder if I have the logs from it
06:07 PM Emil: prolly
06:08 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I'm sure I do
06:08 PM Lambda_Aurigae: but no desire to search for it.
06:29 PM Tom_itx: Emil, i'm sure of it
08:26 PM arij_work is now known as arij
11:47 PM daey_ is now known as daey