#avr Logs

Apr 05 2017

12:21 AM daey_ is now known as daey
02:35 AM julius: crap, i always miss chatter29
02:36 AM julius: enhering, is it just me or does "allah is doing" sounds like its written by a 4 year old
02:40 AM julius: Emil, that gps tracker will be battery powered, right?
02:41 AM julius: any idea on how long it will work without recharging?
03:11 AM polprog: fuck, not him again
03:12 AM polprog: is there even an admin here?
03:12 AM polprog: channel op?
03:18 AM julius: polprog, i talked to the freenode guys on #freenode
03:20 AM julius: a reliable way would be to make the chat "writeable" by registerd users only
03:20 AM julius: hopefully chatter29 is not registerd
03:20 AM julius: or a spam bot like: https://github.com/freenode/Sigyn
03:21 AM julius: although with the text that chatter29 is using...one could use a simple bot in python
03:21 AM julius: but with the bot he would still be abel to say his first 2 sentences
03:21 AM julius: or just the first if you want to kick everybody who says "allah is great"
03:24 AM polprog: im asking cos ive never seen anyone talk here with an @ before nick
03:24 AM polprog: ;)
03:36 AM Lambda_Aurigae: JanC, pcinterrupts are pin change interrupts and are triggered in groups by port...INT0, INT1, are indiidual pin interrupts....they have different capabilities too...all in the datasheet.
03:44 AM Lambda_Aurigae: polprog, there are a couple of ops but general courtesy is to not be opped unless necessary.
03:52 AM Jartza: hello
03:54 AM Lambda_Aurigae: morning Jartza
03:58 AM skz81: <enhering> I wonder, just wonder, why talk about religion on an AVR channel? >> Just like spam. "Braodcast as much as possible, never target" ^^
04:07 AM Emil: Imho we should just ignore chatter29
04:07 AM Emil: no need to do any bot shit or only regustered users
04:07 AM Emil: it would just show how incompetent and childish we are
04:07 AM Emil: no need to get so upset over it
04:08 AM Emil: julius: yeah it will be battery powered
04:08 AM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: gib topic powah
04:09 AM Lambda_Aurigae: Emil, huh?
04:10 AM Emil: give me topic change power
04:10 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I can't
04:10 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I'm not an op
04:10 AM Emil: ah
04:10 AM Emil: sad
04:10 AM Lambda_Aurigae: might have been,,,12 years ago.
04:10 AM Lambda_Aurigae: think I was.
04:10 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but not anymore.
04:11 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I tend to be a militant op and know it so I generally refuse ops unless it's my own channel.
04:50 AM julius: Lambda_Aurigae, for president ;)
04:50 AM skz81: Emil, I saw nobody getting upset here... Just causal chatting about a stupid spamming bot :)
04:51 AM skz81: I agree for the rest :p
04:51 AM julius: Emil, to track somebody?
04:52 AM julius: i mean, does it save the gps data locally or could you see the movement via the internet?
04:55 AM Emil: julius: my brother likes to move a lot
04:55 AM Emil: julius: it would be a gift to him
04:56 AM Emil: and collect and dump kind of solution
04:56 AM julius: so not a way to track a stolen bike for example?
04:56 AM Emil: no
04:56 AM Emil: though I am making one for that :D
04:56 AM Emil: tracking something actibely
04:57 AM julius: there are phone modules that can send data like a normal mobile phone i read
04:57 AM julius: could be used to send a "im here position" every few hours...and maybe receive data that says "send me the position now"
04:58 AM julius: gonna look up the power requirements for that later, battery driven that would be great
05:00 AM Emil: they use a lot of energy
06:29 AM Lambda_Aurigae: julius, I would be worse than Trump
06:29 AM julius: :)
06:30 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and, why not just use a cellphone?
06:30 AM julius: yeah probably easier
06:30 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I have some tiny samsung galaxy Y phones that work well
06:31 AM Lambda_Aurigae: wouldn't take much to mount one under the seat of a bike or whatever.
06:31 AM julius: anyway, this want to get this working first: https://bpaste.net/show/01ce7da8eaec i2c moisture sensor...program only sends 0 every ~10s instead of every 2 and the 0 should be some value
06:32 AM Lambda_Aurigae: first, make sure it's reading the sensor
06:32 AM Lambda_Aurigae: then work on sending data
06:32 AM julius: sending data was my test to see if it reads
06:32 AM Lambda_Aurigae: use some LEDs to display data and ty to read.
06:32 AM julius: how else to test that?
06:32 AM Lambda_Aurigae: ty/try
06:32 AM Lambda_Aurigae: or,,,send some known data first..make sure that part is working.
06:33 AM julius: yes it does send data as expected, around code line 152
06:33 AM julius: if its just a char
06:33 AM Emil: >leds
06:33 AM Emil: >not using serial debug
06:33 AM Emil: wew
06:33 AM Emil: ;)
06:34 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I use serial debug all the time
06:34 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but I make sure the debug side works first.
06:34 AM Lambda_Aurigae: break your program into smaller chunks and debug smaller chunks one at a time.
06:34 AM Lambda_Aurigae: then put them together.
06:34 AM julius: yes thats what im doing
06:34 AM Lambda_Aurigae: if everything works separately but not together then you have other issues like running out of ram or something.
06:35 AM julius: serial debugging would go over the uart too,wouldnt it?
06:35 AM julius: like bluetooth
06:36 AM Emil: eh?
06:37 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yes
06:37 AM Lambda_Aurigae: only to a serial port on the computer
06:42 AM julius: if it be running out of ram the atmega would not be able to receive and act on commands via bluetooth right? i can switch on a led and switch it off again via bluetooth
06:43 AM Lambda_Aurigae: unless it keeps rebooting
06:43 AM Lambda_Aurigae: it could reboot and come back to a ready state pretty quick I would guess.
06:44 AM Lambda_Aurigae: again, I would eliminate the whole serial portion and just read data and display it locally with LEDs.
06:44 AM Lambda_Aurigae: make that work first then put the serial portion back in.
06:45 AM julius: you mean to attach 8 leds and let them show a char?
06:45 AM Lambda_Aurigae: sure.
06:45 AM Lambda_Aurigae: or 4 and show half a character.
06:45 AM Lambda_Aurigae: or 1 and send the data out morse code style.
06:45 AM julius: 1 i can do
06:45 AM Lambda_Aurigae: like PC motherboards used to do for error codes with audio beeps.
06:46 AM Lambda_Aurigae: there are as many different ways to do it as there are lazy programmers doing it.
06:47 AM Lambda_Aurigae: one long flash for a 1 and two short flashes for a 0
06:47 AM Lambda_Aurigae: or something like that.
06:48 AM Lambda_Aurigae: or just flash the LED the number of times of the total value.
06:49 AM julius: actuall the sytem rebooting could explain why i only get the value 0 to my phone every ~10s instead of 2
06:49 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I've used the flashy LED thing to communicate between robots before.
06:50 AM Lambda_Aurigae: half a second pause between bytes, flashy the LED for the data, wash, rinse, repeat.
06:50 AM Lambda_Aurigae: it was slow but functional.
06:53 AM Lambda_Aurigae: unsigned int moist[2]; ?
06:53 AM Lambda_Aurigae: why not uint8_t ?
06:53 AM Lambda_Aurigae: save a couple of bytes as you seem to be using only 8bits on each one anyhow.
06:54 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but I don't see anything that's sucking much ram overall.
06:54 AM Lambda_Aurigae: unless that i2c library does.
06:56 AM Lambda_Aurigae: beyond that, it's too early for me to run code in my head to see what it's actually doing, specially as I'm missing major chunks of the code.
06:58 AM julius: yes wrong data type
06:58 AM julius: found something else though, one second
07:03 AM julius: the device got 6 connections, VCC, GND, SDA, SDL those i did connect, but it also got MOSI and RESET yet i cant find a circuit plan for this sensor
07:04 AM julius: any idea if i2c devices need MOSI and RESET?
07:05 AM Lambda_Aurigae: mosi and reset are going to be for your programmer connection most likely.
07:05 AM Lambda_Aurigae: i2c uses serial clock and serial data and ground.
07:05 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and maybe power.
07:05 AM Lambda_Aurigae: unless it's separately powered.
07:06 AM Lambda_Aurigae: spi uses miso, mosi, sck, gnd, and maybe power.
07:06 AM Lambda_Aurigae: avr isp also uses the same pins.
07:06 AM Lambda_Aurigae: spi can also use chip select lines for individual chips.
07:06 AM Lambda_Aurigae: i2c uses bus addresses.
07:06 AM Lambda_Aurigae: virtual chip select.
07:07 AM NoHitWonder: <julius>actuall the sytem rebooting could explain why i only get the value 0 to my phone every ~10s instead of 2 <- are you making that assumption that you should see data every 2 seconds on your phone by looking your C code? you have to take into account that the phone is doing bluetooth stuff too so there might be a delay, its not instant from sensor to your phone screen.
07:08 AM Lambda_Aurigae: NoHitWonder, hence why I told him to eliminate the bluetooth and serial connection and display the data locally somehow.
07:08 AM julius: not instant, but better than 10s. when writing a character i can get a char every second with _delay_ms(1000)
07:09 AM julius: yeah got a for loop running that works when i set moist[0] = 3 and not use the getTemperature function. led blinks 3 times as expected
07:10 AM Lambda_Aurigae: so far it sounds like you aren't able to read the sensor properly.
07:11 AM julius: yes
07:11 AM julius: sadly this is actually my first time using i2c
07:13 AM Lambda_Aurigae: it's time to read, learn, and understand.
07:14 AM Lambda_Aurigae: what i2c lib are you using?
07:14 AM NoHitWonder: with getTempature you should pass in a pointer for the result, no need to use global variable like that
07:15 AM Lambda_Aurigae: http://homepage.hispeed.ch/peterfleury/avr-software.html
07:15 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I use modified version of Fleury's i2c lib.
07:16 AM Lambda_Aurigae: NoHitWonder, for "proper" programming technique, I would agree...but the global variable works too.
07:19 AM Lambda_Aurigae: julius, you are also sending moist[0] + "0"
07:19 AM Lambda_Aurigae: are you displaying this on a terminal program?
07:19 AM Lambda_Aurigae: or do you have something that can show you the data in hex format or something?
07:20 AM julius: yes, bluetooth terminal on my phone
07:20 AM Lambda_Aurigae: because if moist[0] value is not within the ascii printable character range, it won't show anything valid on a terminal.
07:21 AM julius: right, didnt think about that let me check
07:21 AM daey: set the terminal to hex mode if it allows it
07:21 AM julius: Lambda_Aurigae was right, im gonna stick with the led as output...when that thing does something i can look at the bluetooth
07:21 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I mean, you are adding the value of '0' to it...but you could be sending data way outside of the printable range.
07:22 AM Lambda_Aurigae: that's just not a very good way to convert to ascii really.
07:23 AM Lambda_Aurigae: unless you KNOW your data to be within a certain range that won't go beyond printable ascii
07:24 AM daey: there are functions that convert numbers to strings. alernatively you can divide your number by 1000,100,10.... and then apply your trick to each of the results
07:24 AM Lambda_Aurigae: if that data is going to be between 0 and 9, you are good.
07:25 AM Lambda_Aurigae: if it is between 0 and 78, you are ok but you will see more than digits.
07:25 AM daey: but in case you are lazy.. sprintf() :p
07:25 AM Lambda_Aurigae: daey, yeah...lots of flash for that one.
07:25 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but, I've done it many times.
07:26 AM daey: so have i
07:26 AM Lambda_Aurigae: specially using the atmega1284p
07:26 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and I use it on the pic32 all the time.
07:26 AM Lambda_Aurigae: a full printf suite with floating point support even.
07:29 AM Lambda_Aurigae: one fun project was porting the linux command line bc to avr
07:29 AM Lambda_Aurigae: a terminal calculator
07:29 AM daey: now convert sc
07:29 AM daey: :p
07:30 AM daey: how much space did you need for bc on avr?
07:30 AM Lambda_Aurigae: oooo...never knew about that one!
07:30 AM Lambda_Aurigae: time to convert.
07:30 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I don't remember...but it fit on an atmega32
07:32 AM Lambda_Aurigae: sc will need something with lots of ram.
07:32 AM Lambda_Aurigae: 1284 will suffice.
07:33 AM Lambda_Aurigae: anyhoo...time to go to worky.
07:33 AM Lambda_Aurigae: go break some copiers.
07:35 AM Jartza: whoa
07:35 AM Jartza: http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/ATTINY1617
07:35 AM Jartza: double the attiny817
07:46 AM daey: julius: https://pastebin.com/KTUQ7Y4R that might help
07:46 AM daey: will only work for temps between 0-999
08:06 AM julius: hm not really
08:08 AM julius: i tested the blinking code i have not with static values, works. but when i let the leds blink for the number of the sensor result they blink once in a while....but basically never...even if i put the moisture sensor in water for a few seconds and remove it
08:08 AM julius: s/not/now/
08:20 AM Emil_ is now known as Emil
08:32 AM julius: Lambda_Aurigae, just got a batch of leds via mail... now i could even show two uint8_t.....but blinking one led for the ammount of the variable is the better solution
08:39 AM Lambda_Aurigae: julius, you have 2 LEDs hooked up it seems...blink one for 1 and the other for 0...just a thought.
08:40 AM Lambda_Aurigae: Jartza, that's like a mini-mega!
08:40 AM Lambda_Aurigae: you could do all kinds of video with that thing!
08:40 AM Jartza: Lambda_Aurigae: yeah, and xmega core like in attiny817
08:40 AM Jartza: plus pic periferia
08:41 AM Lambda_Aurigae: is it's an xtiny-picish
08:41 AM Lambda_Aurigae: xpictiny?
08:43 AM julius: Lambda_Aurigae, yes thanks
08:56 AM Jartza: PICXtiny
09:04 AM polprog: ive transfered the roner onto the board. i'm suprised how well is sticks! Looks like the clearance was too small as tracks have slight bridges between them and one has connected with the ground plane
09:04 AM polprog: i thought it was harder
09:04 AM polprog: :)
09:04 AM polprog: s/roner/toner
09:16 AM julius: Lambda_Aurigae, ah yes the code is old...the LED2 is not there anymore
09:16 AM julius: but one should do, as long as the sensor gives out some values
09:16 AM julius: which he resists todo up until now
09:16 AM julius: ive posted the code and the questions on a german avr forum....maybe someone gets lucky
09:57 AM daey: julius: if you can write chars to a terminal dont bother with led blinking :|
09:57 AM julius: yes, but if i really fucked up the code the avr could crash
09:57 AM daey: you most likely have a i2c issue. debugging that without a debugger is going to be ugly
09:57 AM julius: makes sense to not use the bluetooth until i know
09:58 AM daey: i strongly recommend one of these 10eur saleae clones.
09:58 AM julius: daey, what kind of debugger would help?
09:58 AM julius: you mean a logic analyzer?
09:58 AM daey: yes
09:58 AM daey: just to verify your i2c is actually doing what it is supposed to do
09:58 AM _ami_: julius: any cheap LA should do the job for you.
09:58 AM julius: that would show me what the sensor does output...but what do i do with that information?
09:59 AM julius: somehow the data is not going into my avr
09:59 AM daey: implying there is data
09:59 AM daey: maybe the unit is broken
09:59 AM julius: ok...i can take a loop with a "cheap" scope
10:00 AM julius: SDA vs ground should show some rectangles...right?
10:00 AM daey: certainly
10:00 AM Emil: you do have the pullups?
10:00 AM julius: yes, i used 5.1k
10:01 AM julius: some circuit suggeste 4.7k but i thought 5.1 isnt that far of
10:01 AM daey: which sensor are you using?
10:01 AM julius: f
10:01 AM julius: https://www.tindie.com/products/miceuz/i2c-soil-moisture-sensor/
10:02 AM julius: gonna go for a ride with my bike and than im going to cut it open with the scope
10:02 AM daey: i THINK i have an atmega i2c thing in my gitlab.com/flutterbat repo
10:02 AM julius: well, the i2c code lines are rather short
10:35 AM polprog: i never had any luck with i2c,
10:35 AM polprog: i didnt use any sensor, instead a bus pirate
10:36 AM polprog: it worked some way... not bad
10:38 AM polprog: watch with subtitles
10:38 AM polprog: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIHpVf_C4wU
10:39 AM polprog: nice bit of old tech
10:40 AM Jartza: i2c is simple
10:41 AM Chillum: ^^
10:43 AM Chillum: geez how could it possibly be cheaper to operate that old thing than to get a new board
10:43 AM Chillum: if they have to constantly repair it and make punch cards
10:43 AM Chillum: I used to live in a crappy hotel that had a really old elevator, the kind with a driver
10:44 AM Chillum: they sold the elevator as a collectible, bought a modern one and remodelled the whole place with the profit
10:44 AM polprog: they are currently replaced with LCD panels
10:44 AM polprog: but the pixel size is so terrible, it takes around .5 sec for the display to update
10:45 AM polprog: and then some shallowminded programmer decided to implement scrolling text in various languages
10:45 AM polprog: and you can guess how smeared it looks like ;)
10:45 AM polprog: the displays are white-on-blue
10:45 AM polprog: the ugliest ones :(
10:46 AM Chillum: yuck
10:49 AM polprog: and the synthesizers have different voices in different languages, so when there is some train, let's say to the airport, you get a really nice cyberpunk choir
10:49 AM polprog: :D
10:54 AM Chillum: just make everyone use your app on their phones hehe
10:55 AM polprog: the guy is an artist, he made this out of the panels
10:55 AM polprog: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-kJQKj5Jag
11:48 AM Lambda_Aurigae: why is everything youtube?
11:48 AM Lambda_Aurigae: no simple text writeup and a picture or two maybe?
11:51 AM kl0wn: everyone stopped reading in 2013
11:51 AM Lambda_Aurigae: so it seems.
11:51 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I'm surprised irc hasn't gone video.
11:52 AM LeoNerd: Ahyes, the "video tutorials" .. meh
11:52 AM antto: hell no
11:52 AM antto: irc shall not change
11:52 AM antto: we have this one nice thing left..
11:53 AM LeoNerd: Hah.. "nice"
11:53 AM LeoNerd: That's a good one
11:54 AM skz81: <kl0wn> everyone stopped reading in 2013 >> the funniest ever IMHO are youtube videos about... Reading books **faceplam**
11:54 AM skz81: (litterature in general)
11:55 AM antto: or tutorial videos made by kids where they open up notepad and "say" stuff via writing it in.. oh boy
11:55 AM skz81: hahaha... I bet they WANT A VIDEO, but they have no mic sadly krkrkrkr
11:56 AM antto: just when you think about what kind of waste of storage space that is
11:56 AM skz81: agreed :)
11:57 AM skz81: but they are many other leaks actually... People taking 20 photos that are the same (and even some are blurry) and everything upto the cloud...
11:57 AM antto: this whole cloud thing.. wtf
11:58 AM antto: keeps the NSA busy
11:58 AM skz81: hey its big data ! You don't even understand it, but it's SO HYPE :p
11:59 AM skz81: To what one could answer : " I did not say I don't understand it. But I don't get the point !"
12:37 PM julius: antto, i hate the ones where they write in notepad and you can hear background noises..
12:37 PM antto: of course x_x
12:37 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I can see a video to demonstrate something
12:38 PM Lambda_Aurigae: but the whole talking for 20 minutes to tell me something I could read in 3 minutes is just annoying as hell.
12:39 PM Lambda_Aurigae: the whole "cloud" thing is just marketing crap....we have had "cloud" services since before the internet dangit!
12:39 PM julius: #define C_Ds1307ReadMode_U8 0xD1u <- what is the "u" at the end good for? the D1 is a hex value
12:39 PM Lambda_Aurigae: julius, no clue here..
12:40 PM julius: Lambda_Aurigae, well if you want to see things to people who already got everything...you need to name it crappy ;)
12:40 PM Lambda_Aurigae: as a guess, unsigned..but that's probably way wrong.
12:40 PM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah...when we get a new customer it
12:40 PM Lambda_Aurigae: it's called "Net New Logo"
12:40 PM Lambda_Aurigae: the Net New I can see.
12:40 PM julius: hehe
12:40 PM Lambda_Aurigae: but the Logo part is just,,,,,it doesn't fit anything.
12:41 PM Lambda_Aurigae: it's just marketing crap speak.
12:41 PM Lambda_Aurigae: and I told them that at a company meeting.
12:41 PM julius: 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 R/W <- thats what he wants to represent...the R/W being eihter 1 or 0....so D1 or D0
12:41 PM Lambda_Aurigae: which turned into 15 minutes of them explaining the importance of new customers.
12:41 PM julius: Lambda_Aurigae, of course they have arguments for that
12:41 PM Lambda_Aurigae: julius, no clue where you got that line from...I would not put the u on there.
12:42 PM julius: its like b2b from ibm....can you live without it ;)
12:42 PM Lambda_Aurigae: julius, but they never explained the reason for the word logo in the terminology.
12:42 PM julius: ok..gonna try that
12:42 PM julius: im guessing where those marketing geeks came up with the name...drugs are cheaü
12:43 PM Lambda_Aurigae: you could define it as 0b01101000
12:43 PM Lambda_Aurigae: errr
12:43 PM Lambda_Aurigae: make that 0b011010001
12:43 PM Lambda_Aurigae: or 0b011010000
12:44 PM julius: oh btw, i checked the SDA/SDL lines and they never change from +5v with a scope...now im adding a rtc to the circuit..lets see if that works
12:44 PM julius: yes thats what is is
12:44 PM Lambda_Aurigae: on your i2c lines,,,do you have pullups?
12:44 PM julius: yes
12:46 PM Lambda_Aurigae: you checked them how? with a scope, logic analyzer, or meter?
12:46 PM julius: scope
12:46 PM julius: meter would be to slow, la i dont have yet
12:46 PM Lambda_Aurigae: just checking
12:47 PM julius: i knpw
12:47 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I've seen people try it with a meter before.
12:47 PM julius: sure i measure 25khz with a scope...very clean static signal ;)
12:47 PM julius: measured
12:47 PM Lambda_Aurigae: or try to read a pwm output with a meter and tell me it either reads 5V when it is on and 0V when it is off but it varies the brightness of an LED and wonder how that works.
12:48 PM julius: ...never...
12:48 PM Lambda_Aurigae: you would be surprised.
12:49 PM Lambda_Aurigae: the ones that come in and want to know where to connect the red wire to make the arduino work...ok..haven't had any of those in a long while
12:49 PM Lambda_Aurigae: but I did have one guy over on the electronics channel on dalnet trying to figure out how to connect a 9V battery to his arduino.
12:50 PM Lambda_Aurigae: he finally took a picture...had the red wire hooked up right...the black wire was in the bus strip on the breadboard but it didn't go anywhere!
12:51 PM julius: HM
12:51 PM julius: i wonder why it didnt work
12:53 PM Lambda_Aurigae: he claimed to be an engineer
12:53 PM Lambda_Aurigae: turned out he was a software engineer
12:58 PM julius: at least he wasnt working on weapons...*hope*
12:58 PM Lambda_Aurigae: one can hope
12:58 PM Lambda_Aurigae: or maybe, one can hope he was.
12:58 PM Lambda_Aurigae: darwin in action!
12:59 PM Lambda_Aurigae: anyhow...time to go on to next service call..
01:00 PM julius: good luck
01:36 PM xentrac: hmm, someone said something to me but it's off my scroll
03:50 PM Lambda_Aurigae: then it must not be important.
03:51 PM antto: that's a lie
03:51 PM antto: xentrac the world needs you
04:00 PM Emil: polprog: how's the boars?
04:00 PM Emil: board*
04:00 PM Emil: xentrac: invest in a vps
04:01 PM Emil: Lambda_Aurigae: oh how I hate people who dont admit to their limited experience
05:06 PM xentrac: Emil: my IRC client was online, it just has limited scrool
05:44 PM Tom_itx: xentrac there are logs for that
05:45 PM Tom_itx: Emil, i'm a noob
10:53 PM JanC is now known as Guest52949
10:53 PM JanC_ is now known as JanC
11:13 PM Emil: Tom_itx: why are you a noob?
11:14 PM Emil: xentrac: and yeah, you have logs
11:26 PM xentrac: thanks :)
11:33 PM xentrac: where are the logs? Google is not producing results
11:40 PM enhering_ is now known as enhering
11:41 PM rue_house: zlog
11:41 PM rue_house: ...
11:42 PM Tom_itx: rue_house
11:42 PM Tom_itx: log or index both work
11:42 PM Tom_itx: too
11:52 PM xentrac: thanks, rue_house and Tom_itx!
11:54 PM xentrac: ah, it was Jan- and specing. yes, I hope not to be blind! but sooner or later I won't be able to see, and I hope I am still alive at that time and have a good screenreader