#avr Logs
Mar 22 2017
#avr Calendar
12:13 AM z3t0: hey all i need some advice. I've run out of timers on my micro bc i need to control two different pwm motors, and read a sensor. I am thinking of using delays but don't really want to.. do I have a choice since im out of timers?
12:15 AM Casper: 2 pwm and 1 sensor?
12:15 AM Casper: that's 2 out of 3 timers?
12:20 AM z3t0: the 2pwm need to be controlled independently because they are left and right motors
12:20 AM z3t0: so i need one for each
12:20 AM Casper: same frequency?
12:20 AM z3t0: yes
12:20 AM z3t0: different top though
12:20 AM Casper: then use compare A and B on the same timer
12:20 AM z3t0: interrupt
12:20 AM z3t0: ?*
12:21 AM Casper: there is interrupt available for A and B
12:21 AM z3t0: ah hmm
12:23 AM z3t0: what pwm mode would that be though?
12:23 AM z3t0: or do you mean soft pwm?
01:11 AM daey_ is now known as daey
01:33 AM z3t0: im a bit lost right now trying to get pwm to work. would appreciate if anyone looked at it for a second please. http://pastebin.com/sQJhW6KK
01:33 AM z3t0: i am trying to get pwm to work on timer 0, with phase correct mode but it seems that nothing is happening at all..
02:15 AM z3t0: okay i managed to figure it out Casper thanks! Now i have timer 2 free for counting time :)
05:27 AM daey_ is now known as daey
05:43 AM Lambda_Aurigae: dgriffi2, I use C on pic and pic32 as well...just free compilers without the optimization...it works.
05:43 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I do prefer avr overall though.
06:16 AM Lambda_Aurigae: http://hackaday.com/2017/03/21/saturday-clock-an-0-000011574hz-attiny85-clock/
06:16 AM Lambda_Aurigae: avr assembly at its best!
06:19 AM Haohmaru: imagine how many NOPs it would've taken if it was clocked at 16MHz
06:29 AM Lambda_Aurigae: did you look closely?
06:29 AM Lambda_Aurigae: it is clocked by the sun rising and setting.
06:31 AM Haohmaru: what if a bird flies over it?
06:31 AM Lambda_Aurigae: much like my 555 timer in 1-shot mode with a button to trigger the clock pulse.
06:31 AM Lambda_Aurigae: sensitivity adjustment.
06:31 AM Haohmaru: what if a spider crawls over its sensor and starts shaking his tiny a$$
06:31 AM Lambda_Aurigae: the bird would have to be rather close.
07:26 AM JanC_ is now known as JanC
07:44 AM Ad0: attiny.menu.clock.internal12=12 MHz (internal)
07:44 AM Ad0: how does arduino just set an attiny to that?
07:44 AM Ad0: some OSCCAL tweaking?
08:57 AM Casper: Ad0: sound like it just tell the code what crystal you are using
09:03 AM Lambda_Aurigae: some attiny chips can use the pll to set to that but not many.
09:03 AM Lambda_Aurigae: no clue what crap the ardweeny is doing though.
09:04 AM Lambda_Aurigae: one would have to read the manual and/or the code...
09:23 AM Ad0: Casper: it's "internal" though
09:25 AM Lambda_Aurigae: Ad0, it's probably for like an attiny85 which has a pll that it can use for adjusting the speed of the internal RC oscillator.
09:25 AM Lambda_Aurigae: 12MHz is often used on the attiny85 internal for v-usb with pll/usb sync so it can run without a crystal.
09:28 AM Ad0: Lambda_Aurigae: right
09:28 AM Ad0: so you need PLL then
09:29 AM Lambda_Aurigae: that's what I said earlier.
09:30 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but, again, ask the ardweeny people what it's doing.
09:45 AM _nexxus__ is now known as _nexxus_
09:46 AM Jartza: hallo
09:47 AM Jartza: Lambda_Aurigae: v-usb runs attiny85 with PLL, but at 16MHz if I remember correctly... and it automatically adjusts OSCCAL to USB
09:48 AM Lambda_Aurigae: Jartza, I've seen both.
09:49 AM Lambda_Aurigae: 12MHz matches closer to USB than 16MHz does for some screwy reason.
09:49 AM Lambda_Aurigae: it actually adds NOPs in the 16MHz version to make it sync up right.
09:52 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I've also noticed that ardweeny likes to run the chips way below optimum speed.
09:57 AM Jartza: seems v-usb uses 16.5 MHz and then there's another usb-stack that uses 12Mhz
09:57 AM Jartza: at least on t85
09:58 AM Lambda_Aurigae: betting that other one is what the ardweeny is using if it is setting the clock to 12MHz internal.
11:06 AM Ad0: thansks Lambda_Aurigae and Jartza
11:07 AM polprog: doesnt ardweeny have some ftdi usd-uart chip?
11:07 AM polprog: usb*
11:07 AM Lambda_Aurigae: some do.
11:07 AM Lambda_Aurigae: some use avr with built in usb
11:08 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and some, like some of the tiny implementations, actually use v-usb
11:09 AM polprog: i just realized that ardweeny is a whole bunch of different boards, i was thinking about that uno version
11:09 AM polprog: i guess you are right
11:10 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah...there are some official ones and some unofficial ones too.
11:10 AM Lambda_Aurigae: two different companies claimed the name arduino as their own and had slightly different views on how to do things
11:11 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but that arduino "standard" pinout with the strange spacing between rows is just horrid.
11:11 AM polprog: they did have reasons to do it
11:12 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I'm sure they did.
11:12 AM polprog: but you either make a board and let pros design shields, or make a board for kid to learn and let them design snap-on pcbs
11:12 AM polprog: that part is utter nonsense
11:12 AM Lambda_Aurigae: insanity is often used as a reason in court
11:13 AM polprog: rofl
11:13 AM polprog: thankfully i jumped straight into bare avr :D
11:14 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I got into avr before ardweeny was a brain fart in someone's cheerios after a 36 hour drunk.
11:14 AM LeoNerd: I often find that "Arduino" pro style boards are quite a reasonable/cheap way to obtain AVR chips premounted on breakouts
11:14 AM Lambda_Aurigae: LeoNerd, agreed.
11:14 AM LeoNerd: But asides that I don't go near the software, doubly-so the crazy IDE thing
11:14 AM polprog: good point
11:15 AM Lambda_Aurigae: however, I'm something of an ass and refuse to support it in any way, shape, or form.
11:15 AM polprog: there was some avr guide mentioning "shit HAL"
11:15 AM polprog: when comparing avrs and ardweenys
11:16 AM polprog: one thing needs to be said, the arduino subreddit makes a great place to throw links to my vids :P
11:18 AM Lambda_Aurigae: bleh.
11:18 AM Lambda_Aurigae: different generation I guess.
11:18 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I would rather have 100 pages of text than 5 minutes of video.
11:19 AM Lambda_Aurigae: specially if I have to listen to someone reading something.
11:19 AM LeoNerd: I for one find videos /extremely/ slow and tedious
11:19 AM LeoNerd: I'd prefer they talk about twice as fast and stop waffling
11:19 AM polprog: ye i hate video tutiorials
11:19 AM Lambda_Aurigae: most videos in the 10 minute length could be compressed to 1 or 2 pages of text.
11:19 AM LeoNerd: MHm
11:19 AM polprog: i strongly prefer text tutorials
11:19 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and that includes half a page of photos.
11:20 AM polprog: im talking about general electronics videos, like dave or mike,
11:20 AM polprog: and not youtube celebs like great scott
11:20 AM Lambda_Aurigae: don't know who dave and mike are.
11:20 AM Lambda_Aurigae: Jartza's videos of his things running, that I can see.
11:20 AM polprog: i did not :)
11:20 AM polprog: got a link Jartza ?
11:21 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but showing me how to hook all the wires together on the breadboard then plug in the programmer then mistype the commands 3 times and laugh because you can't type and and and and,,,,,,blah
11:21 AM polprog: i hate those
11:21 AM polprog: and cameramen with parkinson's
11:21 AM Lambda_Aurigae: https://github.com/rakettitiede/octapentaveega
11:21 AM Lambda_Aurigae: links to vids on there.
11:21 AM polprog: the videos made with a potato, shaking and mumbling things
11:22 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I've built a couple on breadboards...he sent me a nice little finished one...it's sweet.
11:23 AM polprog: cool dithering
11:23 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and all done on 1 or 3 attiny85 chips.
11:24 AM Lambda_Aurigae: synced together with one clock source.
11:24 AM polprog: im taking that thermometer to school to show it on the physics class
11:24 AM polprog: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMncaxF-dDU
11:25 AM Lambda_Aurigae: thinking of porting wolfenstein or something similar to the pic32 and using an octapentaveega as the display.
11:25 AM Lambda_Aurigae: ok...off to work again.
11:25 AM Lambda_Aurigae: this job done...on to the next client.
11:25 AM polprog: wolfenstein? why not doom
11:26 AM LeoNerd: Random question: is anyone aware of small SPI RAM chips? I want to address the /chronically/ tiny amount of RAM on an AVR project, that otherwise is actually quite well suited for this chip
11:26 AM LeoNerd: I imagine it'd act like one of those SPI Flash chips, except literally just static RAM
11:36 AM Jartza: polprog: link to what? :)
11:37 AM Jartza: polprog: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdBNR0JEDcY
11:37 AM Jartza: that thing runs on attiny5
11:38 AM Jartza: http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/ATTINY5
11:40 AM polprog: i might have stumbled on that before
11:40 AM polprog: :)
11:40 AM Jartza: https://cdn.hackaday.io/images/7619951485034497221.jpg
11:40 AM Jartza: there's the PCB :)
11:41 AM Jartza: IC1 is the MCU
11:41 AM Jartza: U1 is oscillator
11:41 AM Jartza: bastard child of octapentaveega :D
11:41 AM Jartza: that's what happens when you marry 3 MCUs together
11:43 AM polprog: thats impressive
11:44 AM polprog: awesome
11:44 AM polprog: i need to work on making my thermometer smaller
11:44 AM polprog: i have the pcb designed
11:45 AM polprog: i need to force myself to move from 1206 smd
11:45 AM polprog: to something smaller
11:45 AM LeoNerd: I find 0603 is easily hand-solderable
11:45 AM polprog: ill look into that
11:46 AM polprog: maybe ill make a second, normal 2 layer version of the pcb
11:46 AM polprog: with 0603
11:49 AM polprog: Jartza: an idea came to me now while i was looking at that pcb - you could make a two board version with a coin cell pcb on top and hand out such plugs to people
11:51 AM Jartza: why coin cell?
11:52 AM Jartza: LeoNerd: which reminds me... I ordered small mosfets to make a level shifter... I DID look at datasheet and was like "okay, looks good both electrically and pads are 0.6mm x 1.0mm so it's okay to solder"
11:52 AM Jartza: well. it wasn't PAD size...
11:52 AM Jartza: the whole mosfet is 0.6mm x 1.0mm
11:52 AM LeoNerd: HAh
11:52 AM polprog: why coin cell? i dunno, it's small and gives 3V
11:53 AM Jartza: shouldn't click the "order" button so hastily
11:53 AM Jartza: someone just pasted that datasheet and I was like "cool, this fits my purposes, I order these"
11:53 AM polprog: i was thinking of a battery small enough to fit the whole vga plug assembly
11:53 AM Jartza: :D
11:53 AM Jartza: polprog: well, that hack requires 5.0V
11:54 AM Jartza: it's also hardware hack, as I'm driving 8 color VGA out from 3 pins
11:54 AM polprog: didn't know that
11:54 AM Jartza: and if you know VGA, it has HSYNC, VSYNC, red, green and blue signals :)
11:54 AM polprog: you can use two coin cells :D
11:54 AM polprog: i know VGA, i didn't remember the signal levels
11:54 AM Jartza: at least 2032 is too big
11:55 AM polprog: it would be cool to have a device in a plug form factor that generates some picture
11:55 AM polprog: cr2032 is quite big, there are some smaller ones, like those for tiny laser pointers
11:56 AM polprog: like lr41
11:56 AM Jartza: lr41 is 1.5
11:56 AM Jartza: volts
11:56 AM polprog: yeah, stack three or four of them
11:57 AM polprog: maybe i should make that thermometer OSHW
11:59 AM Jartza: well, four lr41s stacked isn't small anymore :D
12:00 PM Jartza: I found out that PCB edge USB connector was okay for providing power
12:00 PM Jartza: usually if there's VGA monitor somewhere, there's also USB port, or charger, or...
12:00 PM Jartza: and plenty of monitors has USB hub built-in
12:00 PM polprog: so that was a usb connector? hehe
12:02 PM Jartza: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxVGR4dlVMYkpsU00/view?usp=sharing
12:02 PM Jartza: so that "wing" is just for providing power
12:03 PM polprog: awesome
12:03 PM polprog: i want my thermometer to be that small too
12:03 PM polprog: what size are those caps and resistor?
12:03 PM polprog: resistors*
12:03 PM Jartza: that silver thing on it is just 3D printed "shim" to make PCB 2.0mm thick
12:03 PM Jartza: for USB connection
12:03 PM Jartza: those are 0603
12:04 PM Jartza: and both MCU and oscillators are sot23
12:04 PM Jartza: also those two leds are 0603
12:04 PM polprog: guess i'll go and order some now :D
12:04 PM polprog: the first step
12:04 PM polprog: to jump to smaller stuff
12:05 PM xentrac: I haven't designed a thermometer, but from reading Camenzind's book, it sounds like it would be super simple
12:05 PM xentrac: like, something you could easily fit into the smallest chips MOSIS will make for you, which are a bit under 1mm²
12:07 PM Jartza: 0603 is still relatively easy
12:07 PM Jartza: 0402 is a bit gnnnnnnnh
12:07 PM Jartza: anything smaller and I'm too old for that shit :D
12:11 PM xentrac: I hear a lot of people use USB microscopes
12:13 PM Chillum: I use one for inspection
12:13 PM Chillum: err I meant photography
12:14 PM Chillum: but for working and inspection my eyes are fine
12:14 PM Chillum: the usb microscope has a fair bit of latency that makes it hard to work under
12:25 PM Jartza: I have regular stereo microphone
12:25 PM Jartza: wut
12:25 PM Jartza: microscope :D
12:27 PM Emil: Chillum: use a better viewer, like guiuvcviewer
12:27 PM Jartza: nothing fancy, it did cost around 150€ with shipping
12:27 PM Jartza: Emil: still there's always lag
12:28 PM Jartza: when soldering 0201 parts, you don't want lag :)
12:28 PM Emil: Jartza: have you tried the mentioned?
12:28 PM Emil: (g or gui)
12:28 PM Jartza: if it's same as guvcview, yes :)
12:29 PM Emil: ah that one it was
12:31 PM Jartza: yeah. that's what I've used. granted, it has very low lag.
12:31 PM Jartza: but still exists.
12:32 PM Jartza: might be okay for 0603 soldering, but I've gotten to like the optical "traditional" microscope
12:32 PM Jartza: there's no lag
12:43 PM xentrac: Emil: there might be some USB microscopes that have lag in the hardware
12:44 PM xentrac: traditional optical microscopes have about 1 ns of lag
12:51 PM LeoNerd: Or "1 light-foot" ;)
01:00 PM Chillum: Emil: I will try that thanks
01:00 PM Chillum: analog video would be the way to get the least latency
01:38 PM xentrac: exactly, LeoNerd :)
01:38 PM APic: 1/g 103
01:38 PM APic: Sorry
02:16 PM julius_: on a analog -> digital converter like the mcp3008 https://cdn.instructables.com/F1R/FD0Y/IAAG12LL/F1RFD0YIAAG12LL.MEDIUM.gif why does it have a Din on the right side? isnt ch0..7 = channel0...channel8 the input?
02:52 PM * julius_ hopes nobody is watching when double posting
02:54 PM Thrashbarg: julius_: data in from the microcontroller. You need to be able to tell it what one of the eight channels you want to receive from
02:54 PM julius_: oh
03:52 PM julius_: Thrashbarg, thanks
04:32 PM arij is now known as arij_work
05:42 PM Lambda_Aurigae: LeoNerd, yes, I use the microchip spi sram chips...love them.
05:43 PM * LeoNerd nod
05:43 PM LeoNerd: I need some framebuffer for a big grid of WS2812s
05:43 PM Lambda_Aurigae: 20MHz max speed by spec.
05:43 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I've run them to 30MHz
05:44 PM Lambda_Aurigae: you can load them up with data then set to clock data out on clock pulses and just clock the entire memory out with just a stream of clock pulses.
05:44 PM Lambda_Aurigae: aaand,
05:44 PM Lambda_Aurigae: they do spi, sdi, and sqi..
05:44 PM Lambda_Aurigae: the nvram versions do spi and sdi
05:46 PM LeoNerd: So what I'll do is render the content into the RAM beforehand, then use my classic NOPthreading technique to read that out while banging out bits for the LEDs
05:51 PM Lambda_Aurigae: if you had multiple strips you could drive out 1, 2, or 4 streams at a time from one chip too.
05:51 PM LeoNerd: Ohsure
05:51 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I've used them in a sick twisted multiplexed mode to generate 800x600 vga...ish...
05:51 PM * LeoNerd nod
05:52 PM Lambda_Aurigae: did some magic with discreet logic to toggle between them and clock out to vga.
05:52 PM Lambda_Aurigae: refreshing them was a pain though.
05:52 PM Lambda_Aurigae: last time I worked on it I was doing double buffering...which requires writing the data twice really.
05:53 PM Lambda_Aurigae: it's really fucked when you have two different images and swap between them on each display frame.
06:12 PM xentrac: Lambda_Aurigae: can you get them to send the whole memory out without extra stuff in between, like start bits and stop bits and stuff? I mean can you use them to, say, generate an NTSC signal directly?
06:12 PM xentrac: well I mean through a resistor
06:13 PM Lambda_Aurigae: yup.
06:13 PM xentrac: nice :)
06:13 PM Lambda_Aurigae: set the start address, give it the command to clock data straight out, turn on clock and watch the data stream.
06:14 PM xentrac: that's awesome, I had no idea
06:14 PM xentrac: what part number should I be reading the datasheet for?
06:15 PM Lambda_Aurigae: https://www.microchip.com/design-centers/memory/serial-sram-serial-nvsram
06:15 PM Lambda_Aurigae: 23lc1024 is wha I use.
06:15 PM xentrac: thanks!
06:15 PM Lambda_Aurigae: also 23lcv1024 for the nvsram version.
06:15 PM Lambda_Aurigae: that drops 2 i/o pins but adds a battery backup capability.
06:15 PM xentrac: hmm, they cost several times what an ATTiny does?
06:16 PM Lambda_Aurigae: dunno..never bought any
06:16 PM Lambda_Aurigae: free samples for the win.
06:16 PM xentrac: heh
06:17 PM xentrac: oh wow, a whole megabit
06:17 PM Lambda_Aurigae: yup.
06:18 PM Lambda_Aurigae: that's a lot of data really.
06:18 PM xentrac: can you also write into them at full speed that way? thinking about the ATtiny2313 "logic analyzer" from the other day and how it was limited by the 1Mbps baud rate
06:18 PM Lambda_Aurigae: yup.
06:18 PM Lambda_Aurigae: look up logic shrimp
06:18 PM xentrac: yeah, it's huge compared to the 4KiB of RAM in an ATMega328
06:18 PM Lambda_Aurigae: it uses those chips.
06:18 PM Lambda_Aurigae: http://dangerousprototypes.com/docs/Logic_Shrimp_logic_analyzer
06:19 PM Lambda_Aurigae: http://dangerousprototypes.com/docs/Logic_Pirate
06:19 PM Lambda_Aurigae: and the logic pirate...next gen from the logic shrimp
06:21 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I've built my own expanded version of the logic pirate.
06:25 PM Lambda_Aurigae: built mine with 8 sram chips though so I have a million sample storage capability.
06:36 PM Jartza: lol
06:37 PM Jartza: I thought about the idea of powering the pentaveega with battery
06:37 PM Jartza: and realised something
06:37 PM Lambda_Aurigae: oh?
06:37 PM Jartza: I have these chinese 1.0V -> 5.0V USB connector adapters on my shelf
06:37 PM Lambda_Aurigae: hmmmm.
06:37 PM Jartza: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxNEl3LWlieXlFSzQ/view?usp=sharing
06:37 PM Jartza: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxRE5RbmtMWG9MVWM/view?usp=sharing
06:37 PM Lambda_Aurigae: power it from a watch battery?
06:38 PM Lambda_Aurigae: neato.
06:38 PM Lambda_Aurigae: how long does a battery last in that?
06:39 PM Jartza: no idea
06:39 PM Jartza: haven't tested
06:39 PM Jartza: but it works
06:40 PM Lambda_Aurigae: kewl.
06:40 PM Lambda_Aurigae: https://xkcd.com/1814/
06:41 PM Jartza: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxLW93YXM3TDJmYTQ/view?usp=sharing
06:41 PM Jartza: actually that PCB seems to indicate these work from 0.8V upwards
06:42 PM Jartza: which is possible. Tagsu voltage booster works down to 0.7V
06:42 PM Jartza: so it really sucks the batteries dry
06:42 PM Lambda_Aurigae: http://hackaday.com/2017/03/22/dartboard-watches-your-throw-catches-perfect-bullseyes/
06:42 PM Lambda_Aurigae: finally, I can play darts and hit the board!
06:43 PM Jartza: hehe
07:37 PM enhering: After a week struggling with a HMC5883L compass code, it was a hardware problem.
07:42 PM Lambda_Aurigae: that's nice.
07:43 PM Lambda_Aurigae: "If it's not on fire it's a software issue."
08:09 PM Jartza: Lambda_Aurigae: well. answer to question: at least 2 hours.
08:09 PM Lambda_Aurigae: kewl.
08:09 PM Jartza: the picture just started to first go on-off-on-off-out-of-sync...
08:09 PM Jartza: and then disappeared
08:09 PM Lambda_Aurigae: hehe
08:10 PM Jartza: but the battery wasn't new, it was used... well.. "some time"
08:10 PM Jartza: so I just pushed in fresh battery
08:10 PM Jartza: but even 2 hours is plenty, because nobody wants to look at that demo longer than 60 seconds
08:10 PM Jartza: :D
08:11 PM Jartza: I guess I would probably get longer runtime by replacing the leds with correct value diodes
08:12 PM Lambda_Aurigae: hehe.
08:12 PM Jartza: and removing the power-on led from the powerbooster
08:12 PM Lambda_Aurigae: too bad you can't power it from the vga port somehow.
08:12 PM Jartza: yeah :D
08:12 PM Jartza: it's what people always suggest... "the EDID has power"
08:13 PM Jartza: what people forget is, the power comes from display adapter, not monitor
08:14 PM Jartza: but oh well. I can have this stupid plug in my pocket with me and demo it to people everywhere
08:14 PM Jartza: usually there's USB power
08:14 PM Jartza: but now if there isn't, I have a backup!
08:28 PM arij_work is now known as arij
08:31 PM Lambda_Aurigae: hmmm...how about building a 1VDC to 120VAC(or 220VAC) boost converter!
08:31 PM Lambda_Aurigae: fire up the monitor from a AA battery!
08:32 PM Lambda_Aurigae: for, like, long enough to show the demo.
08:49 PM xentrac: the idea is that you charge up a capacitor with the energy to run the monitor on?
08:49 PM Lambda_Aurigae: not really..
08:49 PM Lambda_Aurigae: more of a boost converter.
08:49 PM xentrac: LCD monitors mostly run on 12V
08:49 PM xentrac: yeah, but you can't draw the power directly from the battery
08:49 PM xentrac: not even instantaneously
08:49 PM xentrac: I don't think
08:49 PM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah...it's a bit much...was more humor attempt really.
08:50 PM xentrac: sorry
08:50 PM xentrac: I was trying to figure out if there was a way to do it for real!
08:50 PM Lambda_Aurigae: it could be done I'm sure..
08:50 PM Lambda_Aurigae: and, yes, would require quite a bit of capacitance.
08:50 PM xentrac: I mean I think AA batteries commonly have a few kJ of energy, right?
08:51 PM xentrac: or a truly unreasonable amount of inductance, or momentum, or something
08:53 PM darsie: 10 kJ or so.
08:55 PM darsie: That's 100 s at 100 W.
08:56 PM darsie: If you charge a capacitor bank with it you can get the power to power a monitor.
08:56 PM Lambda_Aurigae: ok..bedtime for bonzoids.
09:11 PM Thrashbarg_ is now known as Thrashbarg