#avr Logs
Feb 19 2017
#avr Calendar
12:25 AM daey_ is now known as daey
05:59 AM * LeoNerd starting to attempt a USB HID application on a 32U4
06:06 AM LeoNerd: I guess starting from LUFA is the way to go, rather than trying to begin myself?
06:23 AM Emil: LeoNerd: Actually
06:23 AM Emil: LeoNerd: if you want to try to usb programming on an avr
06:27 AM LeoNerd: ... go on?
06:36 AM JanC is now known as Guest26175
06:36 AM JanC_ is now known as JanC
06:37 AM Emil: https://github.com/tkln/avr_gc_usb
06:38 AM malinus: LeoNerd: you already found this great resource, right? http://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb1.shtml
06:40 AM LeoNerd: Emil: I'm not necessarily after -programming- over USB, I have an ISP programmer for that. I'm writing a USB-HID application
06:40 AM LeoNerd: (basically a really custom input controller, some faders, an XY joystick, lots of buttons/LEDs,...)
06:40 AM LeoNerd: malinus: yesyes I'm aware of that one... mostly I'm working a few layers above that.
06:42 AM Emil: LeoNerd: did you look at the link
06:43 AM Emil: I'm not talking about usb reprogramming
06:44 AM LeoNerd: Hmm.. looks interesting
06:53 AM LeoNerd: Hrmmm.. I'm starting to dislike LUFA; it appears to want control of the entire build process
06:53 AM LeoNerd: It has a makefile I have to invoke to build it, and also the rest of my application
07:20 AM Emil: ikr
08:18 AM enhering: Please visit this link and let me know what you think about this new step in the project development: https://hackaday.io/project/11724-yauvc-yet-another-unmanned-vehicle-controller/log/53539-power-supplies-working
09:27 AM Emil: enhering: what second spi are you talking about?
09:27 AM Emil: Oh p also had two spis
09:27 AM Emil: But hmm
09:28 AM Emil: On which pins
09:28 AM Emil: didn't using the other spi disable usart
09:28 AM Emil: u(s)art
09:31 AM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
09:31 AM Emil: yeah usart in spi mode
09:31 AM Emil: The pb has two real spis and usarts ;)
09:31 AM Emil: Silly that even with those, TX1 and SPI0 are multiplexed
09:35 AM enhering: atmega328p has two spis
09:35 AM enhering: and both work well
09:52 AM Emil: enhering: it has just one spi
09:52 AM Emil: and an usart that you can use as an spi
09:52 AM Emil: The m328pb has two spis
09:52 AM Emil: real spis
09:53 AM _ami_: enhering: one spi only.
09:53 AM enhering: Emil: the USART works well as a master SPI
09:53 AM enhering: It is in the datasheet.
09:53 AM Emil: enhering: no shit
09:53 AM Emil: enhering: it's still usart in spi mode
09:53 AM Emil: It has no second real spi
09:53 AM enhering: Ok.
09:54 AM enhering: But this is what I need.
09:54 AM enhering: So I used it.
09:55 AM Emil: It's important to make the distinction
09:55 AM Emil: Because it's quick to say and otherwise you'll risk idiots coming in with "why don't mah usart work no more you broke it"
09:56 AM enhering: Datasheets have that mission
09:57 AM Emil: sigh
09:59 AM _ami_: any one here wrote linux kernel drivers for pwm?
10:37 AM Lambda_Aurigae: just got a new weller wps1818mp soldering iron
10:37 AM Lambda_Aurigae: heats up to soldering temp in 35 seconds
10:37 AM Lambda_Aurigae: 9V powered
10:38 AM Chillum: noice
10:38 AM specing: not noice, 9V is a weird voltage
10:38 AM specing: 12V is better
10:38 AM Ad0: I have some atten soldering sstation
10:38 AM Ad0: it works OK, the cable is a bit stiff
10:38 AM specing: I have a 12V soldering iron
10:58 AM Lambda_Aurigae: this thing heats up fast and seems to work well.
11:04 AM _ami_: Lambda_Aurigae: its temp controlled one?
11:05 AM Lambda_Aurigae: well.
11:05 AM Lambda_Aurigae: no temp control variable piece.
11:05 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I think it might have a feedback temp controller in it but not adjustable.
11:05 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yet
11:06 AM Lambda_Aurigae: haven't pulled it apart to see what all is in it.
11:06 AM Lambda_Aurigae: definitely going to have to make a 12V-9V adapter for it for the truck though.
11:26 AM scroat: hi
11:26 AM scroat: Do mcu programers get deep into algorithm analysis? Is it common to see datastructures on mcu's?
11:27 AM Jartza: Lambda_Aurigae: http://hackaday.com/2017/02/19/pic-retrocomputer-boasts-vga-ps2-keyboard/
11:27 AM Jartza: a bit lame :(
11:28 AM Lambda_Aurigae: Jartza, yeah..very limited.
11:29 AM Lambda_Aurigae: scroat, need more detail on your question...everything is data structures and analysis of algorithms.
11:29 AM scroat: Is there room for graphs and binary trees on these dip packages?
11:30 AM Lambda_Aurigae: scroat, details....a graph is done on paper or displayed on a screen.
11:30 AM Lambda_Aurigae: a binary tree can be anything from a few bytes to gigabytes in size.
11:30 AM scroat: G= {V,E}
11:31 AM Lambda_Aurigae: let me be mo specific
11:31 AM Lambda_Aurigae: HOW BIG?
11:31 AM scroat: Bigly.
11:32 AM Lambda_Aurigae: go back to windows machines
11:32 AM Lambda_Aurigae: how many elements? size of element?
11:33 AM scroat: I mean, is the STL available for avr?
11:33 AM Lambda_Aurigae: you mean the Standard Template Library?
11:33 AM scroat: yeah
11:34 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yes
11:34 AM Jartza: Lambda_Aurigae: I'm still planning to make "microcomputer" out of attiny85 chips :)
11:34 AM Jartza: I have graphics done, obviously, and also PS2 keyboard interface and some audio routines already
11:35 AM Lambda_Aurigae: Jartza, multithreaded multiprocessing or sequencial processing across multiple chips?
11:35 AM Jartza: sort of "main cpu" and then "peripheral chips" like "gpu" and "audio chip"
11:35 AM Lambda_Aurigae: going to have an interpreter on the main cpu?
11:35 AM Jartza: but I want it to be programmed with interpreter
11:35 AM Jartza: yes
11:35 AM Lambda_Aurigae: have a nice little uBasic or something?
11:36 AM Jartza: haven't yet decided what interpreter, maybe basic
11:36 AM Lambda_Aurigae: or nanoBasic
11:36 AM Jartza: still haven't decided if it would be heresy to add some kind of i2c ram chip there
11:36 AM Jartza: but the main cpu and the other chips will communicate via i2c
11:36 AM Lambda_Aurigae: scroat, your questions, other than the STL one, are so vague as to be absolutely useless.
11:36 AM Jartza: except graphics, which is UART
11:37 AM Jartza: I was thinking that what if it did have 4-8kB FRAM chip in it
11:37 AM Lambda_Aurigae: Jartza, too bad spi isn't in the works...
11:38 AM Lambda_Aurigae: spi sram is fun.
11:38 AM Lambda_Aurigae: 1Mb serial sram from microchip is a fun toy.
11:39 AM Lambda_Aurigae: although
11:39 AM Lambda_Aurigae: EERAM!
11:39 AM Lambda_Aurigae: http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/47C16
11:39 AM Lambda_Aurigae: 2K x 8bit i2c sram
11:39 AM Lambda_Aurigae: with
11:39 AM Lambda_Aurigae: EEPROM backup.
11:40 AM Lambda_Aurigae: 8pin
11:40 AM Lambda_Aurigae: to match your attiny85 chips.
11:40 AM Lambda_Aurigae: http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/47L16 low voltage version.
11:41 AM Lambda_Aurigae: http://andybrown.me.uk/2011/01/15/the-standard-template-library-stl-for-avr-with-c-streams/ for scroat
11:43 AM Lambda_Aurigae: scroat, if your dataset is in the 1 to 16 KB range, it's easily doable on many dip packaged microcontrollers....if it is larger than that then you will have a problem unless you go with external storage of some time like sram, eeprom, flash, etc.
11:43 AM scroat: are any of those devices easy to wire up on a bread board?
11:44 AM Lambda_Aurigae: atmega1284p comes in a 40pin dip, has 128K flash and 16K sram.
11:44 AM Lambda_Aurigae: pic32mx270f256b comes in a 28pin dip, has 256K flash and 64K sram.
11:45 AM Lambda_Aurigae: for raw flash and ram, those are the largest that I know of in dip package.
11:45 AM specing: MIPS in DIP?!
11:46 AM Lambda_Aurigae: without knowing anything about your dataset, number of elements, size of elements, what you want to do with it.
11:46 AM Lambda_Aurigae: specing, yeah...
11:46 AM Lambda_Aurigae: 50MHz MIPS core there specing
11:46 AM Lambda_Aurigae: can execute from flash or onboard sram...is a nifty little chip.
11:46 AM Lambda_Aurigae: even has hardware USB
11:47 AM Lambda_Aurigae: pic32mx170f256b is same chip without USB
11:48 AM Lambda_Aurigae: scroat, for any microcontroller you will need programmer hardware. AVR programmers are anywhere from simple parallel port or serial port devices through complex usb interfaced devices.
11:48 AM Lambda_Aurigae: pic programmers tend to lean toward the more comples and expensive.
11:48 AM scroat: I have a dragon. I'm still figuring out setting fuses.
11:48 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I recommend the pickit3 for an entry level pic programmer.
11:49 AM Lambda_Aurigae: pic32mx won't work with the dragon..you need a different programmer for that...it's a different line entirely.
11:49 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but the atmega1284p will work with it just fine
11:49 AM Lambda_Aurigae: in both ISP and HVPP modes.
11:49 AM scroat: I'm using atmega128p's from the adruino uno, and want to wipe the bootloader off.
11:49 AM Lambda_Aurigae: have fun.
11:49 AM scroat: err 328p i think
11:49 AM scroat: thanks.
11:49 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I don't do arduino nor give any advice concerning them.
11:50 AM Lambda_Aurigae: others here will I'm sure.
11:50 AM PolishProgrammer: o/
11:50 AM Lambda_Aurigae: PolishProgrammer, I see that all over...what the hell does it mean?
11:50 AM scroat: nor do I want to do any arduino either. I'm just took a few of the dip packages off the uno.
11:50 AM Lambda_Aurigae: if you have a bare chip, just erase it.
11:51 AM PolishProgrammer: lambda, its a waving guy emoticon ;) i wanted to say hi
11:51 AM Lambda_Aurigae: oh..my screen reader says "oh slash"
11:51 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but it kinda sounds like ohshit if I'm not paying attention.
11:52 AM PolishProgrammer: why do you use a screenreader? vision problems ?
11:52 AM Lambda_Aurigae: multiple window issues.
11:52 AM PolishProgrammer: :)
11:52 AM Lambda_Aurigae: as in, I currently have 13 irc channels open
11:53 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and I'm not always right in front of the computer...but I have a bluetooth thingie in my ear so I can hear what's going on when I'm working on something else.
11:54 AM PolishProgrammer: im in 9 channels over 2 networks, so i understand the problem
11:55 AM PolishProgrammer: is thermal transfer pcb etching hard?
11:55 AM PolishProgrammer: the trick with the laser printer
11:56 AM Lambda_Aurigae: not hard.
11:56 AM Lambda_Aurigae: made easier with the proper materials and tools
11:57 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I use press-n-peel Blue and a t-shirt iron on press.
11:57 AM Lambda_Aurigae: some laser printers work better than others....those with toner saving features generally work less good unless you can disable the toner save.
11:58 AM Lambda_Aurigae: the more fill you get the better.
11:58 AM Lambda_Aurigae: being able to iron the whole board at one time with even pressure helps a lot too
11:58 AM Lambda_Aurigae: hence the t-shirt iron-on press.
11:59 AM PolishProgrammer: most tutorials here recommend that glossy paper used in magazines
11:59 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I have done it with inkjet photo paper and with glossy magazine papers.
11:59 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I find press-n-peel blue to be the best for me....
12:00 PM Lambda_Aurigae: second best was inkjet photo paper...third was old magazines.
12:00 PM PolishProgrammer: doesnt look difficult now
12:00 PM PolishProgrammer: ;) ill try with the magazine paper
12:00 PM Lambda_Aurigae: print it, iron it on, wet and peel.
12:00 PM Lambda_Aurigae: you get that paper superduper soaking wet with warm to hot water...
12:00 PM Lambda_Aurigae: doing 2-sided can be tricky.
12:01 PM PolishProgrammer: ill try ti design one sided smd
12:01 PM PolishProgrammer: the holes and stuff is a hassle
12:01 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I print both sides on separate sheets then tape them together with the toner side facing inward then slide the board between the sheets and put the whole thing in the t-shirt press.
12:01 PM Lambda_Aurigae: dremel and dremel drill press attachment.
12:01 PM Lambda_Aurigae: works wonders.
12:02 PM Lambda_Aurigae: get a bunch of tiny drillbits and away you go.
12:02 PM Lambda_Aurigae: for 2-sided boards with vias, just put a small pad top and bottom...after etching, drill the holes out and solder a bit of wire in the hole.
12:03 PM Lambda_Aurigae: clip it off flush and away you go.
12:03 PM PolishProgrammer: and the bath timing... can i just take the pcb out for a moment to see if its etched before i find the proper time?
12:03 PM Lambda_Aurigae: most stuff can be done 1-sided with a few through hole jumpers on the back side though.
12:03 PM Lambda_Aurigae: sure.
12:03 PM PolishProgrammer: cool
12:03 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I have a 12x12x2 inch vertical plexi box
12:04 PM Lambda_Aurigae: with a 1 inch section at the bottom sectioned off and holes drilled in it.
12:04 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I feed a plastic tube from a fish tank air pump into that.
12:04 PM Lambda_Aurigae: fill the thing with etchant and turn on the air.
12:04 PM Lambda_Aurigae: it bubbles good.
12:04 PM Lambda_Aurigae: then I drop the board into that.
12:04 PM PolishProgrammer: you probably have a different etchant
12:05 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I use cotton string to hang the boards usually so they kinda swim in the center of the tank.
12:05 PM Lambda_Aurigae: ammonium perchlorate
12:05 PM Lambda_Aurigae: ferric chloride stains too much.
12:05 PM Jartza: Lambda_Aurigae: well, spi is option too but I'm running out of pins :)
12:05 PM Lambda_Aurigae: and is much faster...so you have to watch it more carefully so you don't undercut your traces.
12:05 PM Jartza: and microchip has 8-128kB FRAM-chips
12:05 PM Lambda_Aurigae: Jartza, did you look at those eeram chips?
12:06 PM Jartza: Lambda_Aurigae: yeah, but FRAM is even nicer
12:06 PM Jartza: doesn't even need capacitor for power-loss data retention
12:07 PM PolishProgrammer: how well does fram work with low power micros?
12:07 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I don't see fram listed on the microchip site.
12:08 PM Jartza: hmmh, maybe it wasn't microchip
12:08 PM Jartza: might be fujitsu
12:08 PM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah
12:08 PM Lambda_Aurigae: fujitsu and ti
12:08 PM Jartza: oh, and cypress has them too
12:08 PM Lambda_Aurigae: PolishProgrammer, rather well actualy.
12:09 PM Jartza: FM24C16B-G
12:09 PM Lambda_Aurigae: all surface mount though.
12:11 PM Lambda_Aurigae: and that's only 2K x 8bit
12:11 PM PolishProgrammer: the price is not bad too
12:11 PM Lambda_Aurigae: oooo..
12:12 PM Lambda_Aurigae: fujitsu has an 8pin dip 2Mbit!
12:13 PM Lambda_Aurigae: https://edevice.fujitsu.com/fj/DATASHEET/e-ds/MB85RS2MT-DS501-00023-3v0-E.pdf
12:13 PM Lambda_Aurigae: wonder how they are on samples....hmmm.
12:13 PM Ad0: do I have to set the prescaler div to 128 to read 10 bit adc properly @ 8 Mhz
12:14 PM Ad0: I can't do 64?
12:15 PM Lambda_Aurigae: Ad0, what does the datasheet say and have you tried it?
12:15 PM Jartza: hehe
12:15 PM Jartza: Lambda_Aurigae: still I'm not sure if it's cheating to use ram-chip ;)
12:15 PM Lambda_Aurigae: Jartza, naaa.
12:15 PM Jartza: or do I implement my own, one attiny acting as "ram"
12:16 PM Jartza: using flash :P
12:16 PM Lambda_Aurigae: or several!
12:16 PM Jartza: although that would limit the lifetime of that computer much more than ram chip
12:16 PM Lambda_Aurigae: you can store routines in flash and volatile program and/or variables in ram.
12:16 PM Jartza: what I want is to use DIP chips anyway, as I want people with limited skills to be able to build this
12:16 PM PolishProgrammer: iirc the datasheets say that the adc holds the steady voltage during conversion, like a value "lock"
12:17 PM Jartza: Lambda_Aurigae: sure, but even if I tokenize basic, strings etc. take quite a lot of space
12:17 PM Lambda_Aurigae: yup.
12:17 PM Jartza: and 512 bytes of RAM will be quite little for anything useful
12:17 PM Jartza: at least 8kB would be preferable
12:17 PM Lambda_Aurigae: if you can do spi then the microchip serial sram chips rock.
12:17 PM Jartza: I can
12:18 PM Jartza: but then I can't do much more :(
12:18 PM Lambda_Aurigae: although, this one from fujitsu seems awesome too...but it's spi as well.
12:18 PM Lambda_Aurigae: so, one attiny85 to play memory controller interface?
12:18 PM Jartza: I was more or less thinking of i2c for all chip communication
12:18 PM Lambda_Aurigae: then microchip eeram chips.
12:18 PM Jartza: *except* GPU
12:18 PM Lambda_Aurigae: those are i2c.
12:18 PM Jartza: yea, maybe those. need to see.
12:19 PM Lambda_Aurigae: you don't have to deal with the save function...it's optional.
12:19 PM Jartza: I get too few samples :(
12:19 PM Lambda_Aurigae: if you don't have the cap onboard for the eeram it just doesn't do the backup.
12:19 PM Jartza: should I make audio-interface for saving / loading software? :)
12:19 PM Ad0: By default, the successive approximation circuitry requires an input clock frequency between 50 kHz and 200 kHz
12:19 PM Jartza: so people could attach C-cassette player to it, lol
12:19 PM Ad0: to get maximum resolution.
12:19 PM Lambda_Aurigae: Jartza, nobody has one these days.
12:20 PM PolishProgrammer: ad0, so calculate the proper prescaler
12:20 PM Lambda_Aurigae: and they can't have mine!
12:20 PM Ad0: 64 is 125 khz
12:20 PM Lambda_Aurigae: ok..must go clean out truck.
12:20 PM Lambda_Aurigae: later.
12:20 PM Jartza: well... maybe they have something else...
12:20 PM Jartza: dunno
12:20 PM PolishProgrammer: should be good.
12:20 PM Jartza: maybe SD-card interface as secondary :D
12:20 PM Lambda_Aurigae: Jartza, sd card....
12:20 PM Ad0: I read somewhere that it had to be in the 70 range
12:20 PM Ad0: but the datasheet says max 200 so
12:20 PM Ad0: I'll trust the datasheet
12:20 PM chisight: sure, record with your mp3 player.
12:20 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I have an sd-microsd adapter that I soldered pins to..it fits in a breadboard..and I can switch cards in it.
12:20 PM PolishProgrammer: thats what prototyping is for :D
12:31 PM Jartza: Lambda_Aurigae: yea. although, basic programs could be executed directly from SD card too...
12:31 PM Jartza: and 512 bytes of RAM used only for variables
12:33 PM Jartza: and using bigger MCU is out of the question ;)
12:37 PM PolishProgrammer: when the mcu executes the code it stores it in flash, not ram, right?
12:39 PM Ad0: lol
12:39 PM Ad0: trying to overclock attiny with osccal and try to match the softuart nop and delay
12:39 PM Ad0: without an oscilloscope
12:39 PM Ad0: :D
12:39 PM Ad0: it's impossible
12:40 PM cehteh: mhm?
12:40 PM cehteh: osccal is pretty coarse
12:41 PM Ad0: it is
12:41 PM Ad0: http://i.imgur.com/5lcCAXL.png
12:42 PM Ad0: only way is to see the freq on the oscilloscope
12:43 PM PolishProgrammer: theese spikes look bad
12:44 PM Ad0: at 80
12:44 PM Ad0: wtf
12:45 PM cehteh: the step in the middle is by (ugly) design
12:45 PM cehteh: some avrs have it, its documented
12:46 PM cehteh: the highest bit in OSCCAL seems to switch between some vastly different rc osc configurations
12:47 PM Ad0: I am working on an attiny45
12:47 PM cehteh: i have some code where i can OSCCAL a avr on a external signal
12:47 PM Ad0: but I get ~120 reads a minute with 3 x ADC looped 1024 times each with double calcs
12:47 PM Ad0: so it's pretty damn good
12:48 PM Ad0: it outperforms arduino bloat
12:48 PM Ad0: in size
12:48 PM Ad0: cool cehteh
12:48 PM cehteh: you have to account for some drift and deadband you wont be able to osccal an avr to some exact feequency
12:48 PM Ad0: no I got within 5% which is good enough for soft uart
12:48 PM cehteh: and adjusting constantly will only create massive jitter, often slight drift would be preferable
12:48 PM Ad0: 7.92
12:50 PM cehteh: iirc the hardware uart samples each signal 3 times, do you try to do it only once? i think that may become unreliable over some time
12:51 PM PolishProgrammer: why use soft uart
12:51 PM cehteh: tinys have only USI
12:51 PM cehteh: the worse it shifts in the wrong direction for uart
12:52 PM cehteh: tiny45 i mean
12:52 PM cehteh: well you can use that for hardware assisted uart still and i would prefer that
12:56 PM Lambda_Aurigae: Jartza, yeah, but putting a fatfs on an attiny85 is gonna be tight....will need one chip just for that.
12:57 PM Lambda_Aurigae: PolishProgrammer, the AVR can only execute code from flash. It can not execute from sram or external memory.
01:23 PM rue_house: hmmm people are making thigns
01:40 PM LeoNerd: Hrm.. any LUFA users hereabouts? I'm trying to work out how to do HID stuff, via interrupts. I've set INTERRUPT_CONTROL_ENDPOINT and that seems sufficient to make it respond to control endpoint requests, but Ican't see how I can make it do the same for HID
01:40 PM LeoNerd: I.e. I don't have a convenient point in my code to be manually invoking HID_Device_USBTask()
01:41 PM LeoNerd: Maybe I can find one, but where..? Hwo do I hook it up
02:24 PM Lambda_Aurigae: is there not a hid example for it?
02:24 PM LeoNerd: There are some yes
02:24 PM LeoNerd: There's none that are interrupt-based
02:24 PM LeoNerd: You know how this works.. nobody ever does them
02:24 PM LeoNerd: "Everybody" just writes stupid while(1) loops that spin CPU forever
02:24 PM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah.
02:24 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I don't use usbAVR chips myself.
02:36 PM LeoNerd: Well, I now have a USB "joystick" that doesn't move, but presses a button once a second. That's a start :)
02:39 PM Jartza: Lambda_Aurigae: well, my personal limit is 10 attinys ;)
02:39 PM Jartza: I've decided it needs to have less than that, LOL
02:41 PM cehteh: Jartza i still waiting for an attiny cluster generating HDMI :D
02:42 PM PolishProgrammer: i want an attiny cluster generating fractals
02:42 PM Lambda_Aurigae: fractals are easy.
02:42 PM Lambda_Aurigae: just depends on how fast and how big you want them.
03:29 PM JanC_ is now known as JanC
03:39 PM Ad0: I can't imagine the RC oscillator is particularily stable when overclocked to the double
03:41 PM cehteh: Ad0: btw on a sidenote: did you carefully read the datasheet? ... tiny45 can run at 16Mhz from the RC osc w/o overvlocking
03:41 PM cehteh: .. PLL ftw
03:43 PM Casper: Ad0: RC oscillator is not stable
03:43 PM Casper: at any frequency
03:43 PM Casper: it just happend to be stable enought
03:49 PM cehteh: i ever wanted to check if using the PLL makes it less jitter because there is a divider first which integrates the RC osc freq, but then i dont know how jittery the pll is
03:51 PM Lambda_Aurigae: it's more jittery than the base oscillator
03:51 PM cehteh: ok
03:54 PM Casper: if you need precision, crystal...
03:54 PM Polprog: ^^
03:54 PM Polprog: dave made a good episode on oscillators
03:57 PM Ad0: cehteh: no I missed that
04:01 PM Ad0: cehteh: which one of the PLL modes?
04:03 PM cehteh: see datasheet .. i am out now
04:04 PM cehteh: the 64mhz pll can be used as system clock (/4) ... and fed by 8mhz RC osc
04:04 PM Polprog: pll?
04:04 PM cehteh: thats certainly not the lowest power solution, but i guess you dont care
04:04 PM Emil: cehteh: wtf
04:05 PM cehteh: tiny magic :)
04:05 PM cehteh: megad cant do the stunt
04:05 PM cehteh: megas
04:05 PM Emil: Ah you assume that nvm
04:05 PM cehteh: assume?
04:06 PM Tom_L: ass u me
04:06 PM cehteh: read datasheet
04:06 PM Ad0: I read it but I don't know what "14CK + 16K (16384) CK + 64 ms" means
04:06 PM Ad0: and why I should choose the one over the other
04:07 PM Ad0: it needs 14 + 16K + 64 ms to start up properly
04:07 PM Ad0: why do I care
04:07 PM Ad0: :)
04:07 PM Emil: If you need quut boit
04:07 PM Ad0: I guess for sleeping purposes and fast respons
04:07 PM Emil: boot*
04:07 PM Ad0: but is the "longest one" as this one the safest / most stable?
04:07 PM Emil: 64ms is ages
04:07 PM Emil: Yes
04:08 PM Ad0: Iguess I need to set F_CPU
04:08 PM cehteh: pll takes some time to lock
04:08 PM Emil: but "stable" is not really that importat
04:08 PM Emil: in thr beginning of boot
04:08 PM Emil: it is purely up to what you need
04:09 PM Ad0: yeah
04:09 PM Ad0: at that speed I hope it's stable enough for softuart
04:09 PM Ad0: at 9600 baud
04:09 PM Ad0: this is not a definitive must have right now, it's for fun
04:09 PM Ad0: I will try it tomorrow
04:26 PM Polprog: later
05:17 PM z3t0: hi all
05:18 PM z3t0: i am trying to use avr-gcc to include multiple c files, but i get an error that i can only use one
05:24 PM Lambda_Aurigae: well,,,we need the exact error and some code to see what's happening.
05:29 PM Casper: multiple C files are possible, I did it many times, but I use a makefile
05:36 PM LeoNerd: Ugh.. :( Does anyone know of any ATmega32U4 boards that *aren't* Arduino Leonardo or Pro Micro?
05:37 PM LeoNerd: Both of those are attempting to be "328 compatible" pinouts, and really ruin the pin assignments; furthemore there's several pins not available
05:40 PM Ad0: https://www.adafruit.com/products/2771
05:40 PM LeoNerd: Oh, yes apart from the Adafruit one that costs like... 5 times more
05:41 PM LeoNerd: Pro Micros can be had for about £3, but getting that Adafruit one costs >£20
05:41 PM Ad0: not possible to get a socket for those kinda chips+
05:41 PM LeoNerd: A 32U4 breakout board /would/ be just the same as the Pro Micro, just not with stupid silkscreenings and missing 5 of the IO pins
05:42 PM LeoNerd: I wonder if I should just go into the business of making them, like I do with the 328PB
05:42 PM Ad0: http://dirtypcbs.com/store/designer/details/8489/1041/atmega32u4-development-board
05:42 PM Ad0: I wish you could just get the drawings for that then hehe
05:42 PM Tom_L: LeoNerd, i wondered that same thing at one point: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/atmega32u4/atmega32u4_1.jpg
05:43 PM Ad0: did you handsolder that?
05:43 PM LeoNerd: Tom_L: Ooh, are you selling those?
05:43 PM Tom_L: no
05:43 PM LeoNerd: Hrm.. no ISP6 header on it :/
05:43 PM Tom_L: i gave a couple to rue
05:43 PM Tom_L: and may have a couple here somewhere
05:44 PM Tom_L: you could attach one easy enough
05:44 PM Ad0: what are those PU socket clamps called?
05:44 PM Ad0: those you can just pull a lever and the chip is connected
05:45 PM Ad0: very useful thigns
05:45 PM Tom_L: zif sockets
05:45 PM Ad0: thnaks
05:45 PM Tom_L: zero insertion force sockets
05:49 PM Tom_L: LeoNerd, http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/misc_stuff/mega128.jpg
05:50 PM LeoNerd: Mmm... fanout :)
05:51 PM Tom_L: you need a 32U4 board?
05:51 PM LeoNerd: Ideally. Something with USB anyway
05:52 PM Tom_L: U2 not enough?
05:52 PM LeoNerd: Hrm...
05:52 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USB_Breakout/USB_Breakout_index.php
05:52 PM Tom_L: i bet i've got a couple of those
05:52 PM Tom_L: no isp though either
05:53 PM LeoNerd: Ah, probably not the 32U2 - that looks like it lacks an ADC even
05:53 PM Tom_L: yeah no ADC
05:53 PM LeoNerd: I'm making a custom input device - need lots of ADC to read some analog pots/sliders
05:53 PM Tom_L: if you can populate it, i may have a couple of those boards still
05:54 PM LeoNerd: Eh; I can /probably/ do fine with a £3 Pro Micro board, I'll just have to get annoyed at the stupid pinout
05:55 PM LeoNerd: I doubt I need *every* single pin anyway; most of my buttons/LEDs will hang off an I²C expander anyway
05:56 PM Tom_L: https://www.adafruit.com/product/296
05:56 PM Tom_L: looks like just about everybody has one nowdays
05:56 PM LeoNerd: Yeah, that's the one I use for development. It's a lovely board but it's not cheap.
05:57 PM LeoNerd: It just annoys me that the cheap boards all have stupid pinouts and the sensible pinout board is literally 5x as expensive
05:57 PM enhering: I added a draft document of my stuff to the project webpage, thanks to Erlend^SE. If somebody is interested: https://cdn.hackaday.io/files/11724501599616/YAUVC-SystemDocument-draft-19Feb2017.pdf
06:00 PM LeoNerd: Ooooh wait a moment - the Teensy 2.0 is a 32U4 with all 25 GPIO pins
06:01 PM Tom_L: yeah, that's the one i was trying to remember
06:01 PM Tom_L: Paul has a proprietary bootloader on it though
06:01 PM Tom_L: he won't release it
06:01 PM LeoNerd: Eh the bootloader can go hang - I'll just ISP the thing away anyway ;)
06:01 PM LeoNerd: .. ohwait the Teensy lacks an ISP6 header :(
06:02 PM LeoNerd: Goddamnit people! Am I going to have to make this too?
06:02 PM Tom_L: do you use eagle?
06:02 PM LeoNerd: KiCad
06:02 PM Tom_L: i was gonna offer my files to get you off to a start
06:02 PM Tom_L: i'm not planning to make any more
06:03 PM LeoNerd: I made a 328PB; I can probably do a 32U4 in similar shape
06:03 PM LeoNerd: https://www.tindie.com/products/leonerd/atmega328pb-development-board/
06:03 PM Tom_L: TQFP are alot easier to solder than QFN
06:04 PM Tom_L: looks good though
06:04 PM LeoNerd: I dunno.. I find the leads tend to develop a solder bridge somewhere
06:04 PM Tom_L: that's an easy fix
06:04 PM LeoNerd: Every single one of my 328PB boards had /a/ bridge on it that I had to fix by hand
06:04 PM Tom_L: i just blob the solder on and worry later
06:04 PM LeoNerd: Whereas I've never bridged a no-lead
06:05 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/atmega128_exp_1.jpg
06:05 PM Tom_L: that was one 128 i did
06:29 PM LeoNerd: Ah; the non-Pro Arduino Micro isn't too bad.. it has 20 of the 25 pins; Pro Micro has only 18
06:52 PM Tom_L: don't they realize you can use all the pins?
06:54 PM LeoNerd: Apparently not :/
06:54 PM LeoNerd: annoyingly, the Micro board itself has two N/C pins on it, and the chip has 4 IOs unconnected :/
06:55 PM LeoNerd: They could have just linked two more. I don't know why they don't
06:55 PM Tom_L: i know one of the U2 U4, (can't recall which) brings out the reset to a pin so you gotta be careful wiggling that pin
07:33 PM NonaSuomy is now known as NoSu01