#avr Logs
Feb 17 2017
#avr Calendar
12:27 AM daey_ is now known as daey
02:42 AM JanC is now known as Guest38106
02:42 AM JanC_ is now known as JanC
07:17 AM Duality: could someone help me out? i have this code: http://pastebin.com/SYWDeXby but that doesn't compile i have no idea why not these are the errors: http://pastebin.com/SZ9HNY67
07:17 AM Duality: this is like the simplest thing, and it doesn't compile -.-
07:19 AM PolishProgrammer: ddrb should be in main
07:19 AM PolishProgrammer: i have no idea about behavior of code outside methods
07:20 AM Duality: oh
07:20 AM Duality: so stupid
07:20 AM Duality: :D
07:20 AM PolishProgrammer: i once kept reflashing old code because the new one didnt compile qnd eclipse forgot to tell me
07:21 AM PolishProgrammer: fortunately all my programs flash all leds a couple of times so i can identify if the changes are reflashed
07:22 AM Lambda_Aurigae: the DDRB assignment is an active statement rather than a declaration so it has to be inside a method, function, or some such.
07:23 AM PolishProgrammer: what is an active statement exactly?
07:24 AM Duality: i forgot that i had to put it in main, it's been a while since i coded for avr chips :)
07:24 AM Lambda_Aurigae: that's just standard C
07:25 AM Lambda_Aurigae: for AVR, PIC, ARM, x86, or anything.
07:25 AM specing: PolishProgrammer: this is why a command-line Emacs/vim + avr-gcc + avrdude flow is much better
07:25 AM specing: one of the reasons anyway
07:25 AM Lambda_Aurigae: active statement is something that does something actively during the program...like an assignment or if or something.
07:26 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I'm probably using the wront term there,,,but its how I learned it back in the 80s.
07:26 AM PolishProgrammer: specing, i am thinking about returning to emacs + automake
07:26 AM Duality: Lambda_Aurigae: what would not be a active statement for example ?
07:27 AM Lambda_Aurigae: #include
07:27 AM PolishProgrammer: #define ?
07:27 AM Lambda_Aurigae: #define
07:27 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah.
07:27 AM Duality: so all actuall code is active statements then :)?
07:27 AM Lambda_Aurigae: most of it, yes.
07:27 AM Lambda_Aurigae: int i;
07:28 AM Lambda_Aurigae: could be outside a method.
07:28 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but not
07:28 AM PolishProgrammer: yeah, globals can be defined out of methods
07:28 AM Lambda_Aurigae: i=15;
07:29 AM skz81: Object o("some string as init parameter"); actually calls Object::Object() and can be put in the global scope IIRC
07:29 AM Lambda_Aurigae: int i; is a definition, not an active statement...I'm sure it's called something else...
07:29 AM skz81: is it an active statement ? It'is not C but C++, though, I must admit that
07:30 AM Lambda_Aurigae: that's C++....black magic stuff...hehe
07:31 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but I'm guessing if it can be put in the global scope then it's considered a definition of some kind.
07:32 AM Duality: skz81: that is not c but c++ :)?
07:33 AM Duality: int i; reserve's some space on the stack right, while int i = 15; would reserve that space and put 15 in it ?
07:33 AM Lambda_Aurigae: we should all convert and work in C--
07:33 AM Duality: and that writing 15 in it would be the active part ?
07:33 AM Lambda_Aurigae: Duality, correct...only, heap rather than stack as I recall.
07:33 AM Duality: oh
07:34 AM Lambda_Aurigae: kindof....it's an assignment that takes place during creation...if it is in the global scope it happens when the program first initializes, before jumping to main()
07:34 AM skz81: <Lambda_Aurigae> but I'm guessing if it can be put in the global scope then it's considered a definition of some kind. >> Yes it is Sir. Compilers have some freedom about how they actually compiles it. I remember to see a bug fix about constructors call for such "globals" that where not called when expected on a specific platform
07:34 AM skz81: were* not called
07:35 AM Lambda_Aurigae: skz81, yeah...lots of screwy bugs with different compilers treating things differently either due to poor definitions in the standards or lazy developers or both.
07:35 AM specing: Well
07:35 AM specing: you could also use Ada
07:36 AM Lambda_Aurigae: no
07:36 AM Lambda_Aurigae: just
07:36 AM Lambda_Aurigae: NO
07:36 AM Lambda_Aurigae: hehe
07:36 AM Lambda_Aurigae: Ada is evil incarnate!
07:38 AM Lambda_Aurigae: hmmm...there is very little out there on C--
07:42 AM Duality: what's wrong with ada
07:43 AM PolishProgrammer: you can code in anything that compiles to avr
07:43 AM skz81: <Lambda_Aurigae> hmmm...there is very little out there on C-- >> kind of LLVM ?
07:44 AM Lambda_Aurigae: Duality, not sure about the Ada of today, but the Ada I learned in 1989 was a horrible miscarriage that the US DOD forced on us.
07:44 AM Lambda_Aurigae: LLVM does work with C-- apparently, yes.
07:45 AM skz81: work with ? From what I read, they compares, but... http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3891513/how-does-c-compare-to-llvm
07:47 AM specing: Lambda_Aurigae: I'm sure you have the same 30 year old grudges against everything else
07:47 AM Lambda_Aurigae: skz81, it was just a thought that popped up. I haven't taken the time yet to research it. I'm at work killing time before my first conference call of the day.
07:47 AM Lambda_Aurigae: specing, probably.
07:47 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but
07:48 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I'm a bastard!
07:48 AM specing: you don't use Intel anymore after their Pentium 4 fuckup, do you?
07:48 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I never had a problem with their pentium 4
07:48 AM Lambda_Aurigae: heck, I have one that still runs.
07:48 AM specing: oh, denial, I see
07:48 AM Lambda_Aurigae: now, the P-60.
07:48 AM Lambda_Aurigae: that was a serious fuckup.
07:49 AM Lambda_Aurigae: division is futile, you will be approximated.
07:49 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but that made me lots of money.
07:49 AM Lambda_Aurigae: seriously, I don't remember a problem with the p-4
07:50 AM skz81: Lambda_Aurigae, ok, no prob. I guess one can transpile from one to another
07:50 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but I ran more AMD processors than Intel of the time.
07:51 AM Lambda_Aurigae: still have a dual athlon mp-2000+ that works even.
07:52 AM Lambda_Aurigae: for 2001, that msi k7d master board with dual processors and 4GB of ram just rocked...was 32bit and about half a GB was used for interprocessor cache or something...but it ran linux with vmware on top of it and windows-xp as a guest blazing fast for the time.
07:52 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but I never did get my transputer dangit!
07:53 AM PolishProgrammer: i never had a chance to get a dual cpu board
07:53 AM PolishProgrammer: maybe because i thought that there may be fuckups
07:54 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I was the IT department for a startup software development company back in 2001...I got to spec out our workstations.
07:54 AM Lambda_Aurigae: the msi k7d master board was relatively inexpensive and gave us dual processors in the day when that was only available usually on server platforms.
07:55 AM PolishProgrammer: was it worth it?
07:55 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and we were doing multiple OS development...so,,,having two VMware sessions running on one box was cheaper than multiple boxes.
07:55 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yes.
07:55 AM Lambda_Aurigae: we ran redhat linux as the desktop OS
07:55 AM PolishProgrammer: nice
07:55 AM Lambda_Aurigae: winxp and solaris-x86 in vmware
07:55 AM PolishProgrammer: solaris
07:55 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yupyup.
07:55 AM PolishProgrammer: i never tried that one
07:56 AM Lambda_Aurigae: still have copies of it...still use it once in a while myself..mostly for screwing around with.
07:56 AM PolishProgrammer: have you ever run minix?
07:56 AM Lambda_Aurigae: worked with it a time or three years back.
07:56 AM Lambda_Aurigae: nothing seriously in the last 10 years though.
07:56 AM PolishProgrammer: i recently burned live minix on a cd
07:56 AM PolishProgrammer: i need to get back to it
07:57 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I'm a linux user these days myself.
07:57 AM Lambda_Aurigae: with windows and macosX where necessary for work.
07:57 AM PolishProgrammer: i installed windows 7 a month ago as a dual boot
07:57 AM PolishProgrammer: the security level amazes me
07:58 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I should dig out the AT&T system VII disks and load them up on a modern computer and see what happens
07:58 AM PolishProgrammer: lack of it actually
07:58 AM PolishProgrammer: theese are paid, right?
07:59 AM PolishProgrammer: id like to run one of theese ancient unix systems, just to mess around
08:00 AM PolishProgrammer: fun fact, my last daily driver windoes was xp, 11 years ago
08:00 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I acquired this 386 version of AT&T unix back about 15 years ago...
08:01 AM Lambda_Aurigae: it was on 3.5 inch floppies and brand new in the wrapper.
08:01 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I should image the floppies if they are still any good.
08:01 AM Lambda_Aurigae: gotta find them first.
08:01 AM PolishProgrammer: 3.5 are those small plastic ones ?
08:01 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah..the hard case floppies.
08:01 AM Lambda_Aurigae: 1.44Mb
08:01 AM Lambda_Aurigae: MB
08:01 AM Lambda_Aurigae: kids...sheeesh!
08:02 AM Lambda_Aurigae: hell, I remember when 5.25inch floppies hit the market!
08:02 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and have worked with 8 inch floppies.
08:02 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and 10 inch laser disks.
08:02 AM PolishProgrammer: i use mine as cup coasters in the workshop
08:02 AM Lambda_Aurigae: that's why I was on the AOL mailing list for years.
08:03 AM Lambda_Aurigae: free aol coaster CDs!
08:03 AM PolishProgrammer: well, i hopped on irc but not on mailing lists :)
08:03 AM Lambda_Aurigae: back when mail meant something physical in your mailbox..
08:04 AM Lambda_Aurigae: when Computer Shopper magazine was almost 4cm thick!
08:05 AM PolishProgrammer: when im back home ill see if i can use the grill as a reflow without any controller
08:05 AM PolishProgrammer: if it succeeds i'll reflow the reflow controller pcb when its done
08:06 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I have a customer who is going to save me a high end zebra printer or two when they start discarding them.
08:07 AM Lambda_Aurigae: the one zebra printer I have now is 150dpi which just isn't quite good enough for making PCBs..
08:07 AM Lambda_Aurigae: the ones they are going to be throwing away later this year are 600dpi which should be perfect.
08:07 AM Lambda_Aurigae: they print with a wax ribbon.
08:07 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and the wax is etch resistant!
08:08 AM PolishProgrammer: i thought about etching pcbs at home but i can have them done locally in a week with soldermask and all that jazz
08:08 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and I can configure them to print straight onto copper clad.
08:08 AM Lambda_Aurigae: no place to get that done locally here..
08:08 AM PolishProgrammer: but i still have the etching chemicals in the closet
08:08 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I can order them and get them in a couple weeks with soldermask and everything.
08:08 AM PolishProgrammer: :(
08:08 AM Lambda_Aurigae: or in a month and get them real cheap from dirtypcbs.com
08:09 AM PolishProgrammer: where you at?
08:09 AM Lambda_Aurigae: Iowa, USA, Earth, Sol System
08:10 AM PolishProgrammer: milky way, local cluster
08:10 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I make strange 1-off boards on occasion so like to be able to print up my own.
08:10 AM Lambda_Aurigae: universe #11662345s116781Z-8
08:11 AM Lambda_Aurigae: reality Bravo
08:11 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but I'm from somewere else entirely.
08:11 AM PolishProgrammer: when i order my pcbs i take 3 piecea
08:13 AM Lambda_Aurigae: last 4 orders I did at dirtypcbs.com I just ordered the protopack and got several extras of each.
08:15 AM Lambda_Aurigae: they say you could get shorted a couple but that never happened to me yet.
08:16 AM Lambda_Aurigae: 5x5cm boards, 10+/- boards, 2 layer, silkscreen...for 12USD....their price has come down it looks like.
08:16 AM Jartza: helo
08:17 AM Lambda_Aurigae: ack
08:17 AM Jartza: what's up?
08:25 AM Lambda_Aurigae: me, I think.
08:25 AM Lambda_Aurigae: for the last 5 hours.
08:27 AM PolishProgrammer: i like the guy who runs my millhouse,
08:27 AM PolishProgrammer: he gave me a couple of tips when i sent him my first pcb
08:34 AM Jartza: it's always fun to get your first pcb
08:35 AM PolishProgrammer: i was so proud of myself
08:36 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I had been making my own for 30+ years before I ordered one from a professional.
08:36 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I've always had the FeCl based kits from radio shack.
08:37 AM Lambda_Aurigae: have ammonium perchlorate these days...not as nasty staining everything up.
08:44 AM cehteh: anyone of you ever sucessfully etched with this copper chloride process?
08:44 AM cehteh: the regenerateable etchant
08:45 AM cehteh: http://techref.massmind.org/techref/pcb/etch/CuCl2.htm
09:00 AM Jartza: Lambda_Aurigae: btw... when you get the OPV somewhere around the christmas, could you tell me when it arrived? :)
09:00 AM Jartza: I rarely send anything to your country, just curious how long does it take
09:29 AM Lambda_Aurigae: Jartza, will let you know which epoch it arrives in.
09:29 AM Lambda_Aurigae: cehteh, I've not used it myself...probably slower than ferric chloride I would bet.
09:32 AM Lambda_Aurigae: seems that it is faster than ammonium persulfate though...that's good.
09:32 AM Lambda_Aurigae: cupric chloride...will have to see if I can find some locally.
09:33 AM Lambda_Aurigae: wonder how it reacts with waxes...
09:33 AM Jartza: Lambda_Aurigae: finnish post was optimistic and thinks it should be within 5-10 days
09:34 AM Lambda_Aurigae: kewl.
09:35 AM cehteh: Lambda_Aurigae: the advantag is that you can generate it by yourself, just some copper and hydrochloric acid
09:35 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah....
09:36 AM cehteh: *but* .. having a bubbler in some hydrochloric acid solution makes me worry in my workshop, that means every single steel part will start rusting
09:36 AM Lambda_Aurigae: getting HCl can be a bit tricky...but can get it as muriatic acid from pool supply stores.
09:36 AM Lambda_Aurigae: hehe.
09:36 AM cehteh: hcl is easy to get here
09:36 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I have a bubbler for my perchlorate setup.
09:36 AM cehteh: that stinks, but doesnt make the steel rust
09:36 AM Lambda_Aurigae: use a fish tank air pump and made up a tank out of plexi with an air area at the bottom.
09:36 AM cehteh: or?
09:36 AM Lambda_Aurigae: no steel in the tank at all.
09:36 AM Lambda_Aurigae: all plastic.
09:37 AM Lambda_Aurigae: plastic air hose, plexiglass bubbler tank.
09:37 AM cehteh: nah anything in the same room which only gets a slight trace of the fumes
09:37 AM Lambda_Aurigae: oh.
09:37 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I run it in my shed which has LOTS of ventilation...
09:37 AM Lambda_Aurigae: usually with the big 12 foot tall by 10 foot wide door open.
09:38 AM cehteh: well i have a cellar workshop in a 100+ years old house, with some humidty
09:38 AM Lambda_Aurigae: aahh.
09:38 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I have a 24x48 foot workshop.
09:38 AM cehteh: its already a fight to keep my tools free from rust with wd40
09:38 AM Lambda_Aurigae: mostly full of junk and wood.
09:38 AM Lambda_Aurigae: 1/4 of it is separated out where my woodworking tools are kept and my woodworking workshop is.
09:38 AM cehteh: and regenerating the copper cloride thing means you need to bubble it for days/weeks
09:39 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah...I'll stick with the ammonium persulfate method.
09:39 AM cehteh: http://public.pipapo.org/kitchen/20101122_001.jpg
09:39 AM Lambda_Aurigae: or ferric chloride if I run out.
09:39 AM cehteh: .. thats when i started to set up the workshop
09:39 AM cehteh: also mostly woodworking
09:40 AM Lambda_Aurigae: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BxaP1wMEe_6ab3ZHUnJyMEU0b28
09:40 AM Lambda_Aurigae: my workshed as I was covering it last year.
09:40 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I need to get more current pictures.
09:41 AM cehteh: grr .. i am happy that i have at least my cramped workshop :D 3x4m ..
09:41 AM Lambda_Aurigae: that shed is across the street from my house.
09:41 AM Lambda_Aurigae: no power...so run everything by generator.
09:41 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I'm collecting old batteries and desulfating them...
09:41 AM Lambda_Aurigae: have a couple of inverters
09:41 AM Lambda_Aurigae: and
09:42 AM Lambda_Aurigae: just got a nice massive UPS to go over there.
09:42 AM cehteh: heh
09:42 AM Lambda_Aurigae: it plugs right into my generator.
09:42 AM Lambda_Aurigae: 48V battery pack with it too.
09:42 AM cehteh: ok i have 3 phase there :)
09:42 AM Lambda_Aurigae: it will run the lights and stuff for a while...and light tools.
09:42 AM Lambda_Aurigae: no 3 phase available where I live that I know of...never checked really but the lines don't look it.
09:42 AM cehteh: at least one thing where my workshop is better than yours
09:43 AM Lambda_Aurigae: the shed used to have power and if I wanted to pay for an extra power feed I could get it.
09:43 AM Lambda_Aurigae: the UPS and genny make it a decent place.
09:43 AM cehteh: in germany 3phase is common, often even 1 room student appartements have it
09:43 AM Lambda_Aurigae: the genny is inside but I ran a metal dryer duct out the back of the building for the genny exhaust.
09:43 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah..you run 220V/240V normally there though.
09:44 AM Lambda_Aurigae: so, 3 phase is, what, 408V?
09:44 AM cehteh: yes
09:44 AM cehteh: nice for smooth running motors like the drill press and tablesaw
09:44 AM Lambda_Aurigae: if I wanted to pay for it I could get 208 or 408 V 3 phase here.
09:44 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but it costs extra.
09:44 AM cehteh: dont have a tablesaw yet, but if i build one i will go for 3 phase
09:44 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I have a small portable tablesaw
09:45 AM Lambda_Aurigae: lots of 18V ryobi tools.
09:45 AM cehteh: i would want a precision one
09:45 AM Lambda_Aurigae: a 110V/240V 1964 dewalt radial arm saw..
09:45 AM cehteh: and with such a small workshop its already cramped enough
09:45 AM Lambda_Aurigae: paid 35 dollars for it.
09:45 AM Lambda_Aurigae: could sell it, right now, as it sits, for 1200.
09:45 AM cehteh: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyIi7zSXgAEFTo9.jpg
09:46 AM Lambda_Aurigae: that a planer/joiner?
09:46 AM cehteh: i can plane and saw 2m long beams .. diagonally though the workshop
09:46 AM cehteh: 1m more when i leave open the door :)
09:46 AM cehteh: yes
09:46 AM Lambda_Aurigae: need to get one.
09:46 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I have most of a nice heavy duty lathe too.
09:47 AM Lambda_Aurigae: just need a few small pieces and some tools for it.
09:47 AM cehteh: thats a really cheap one, i like it, enough for hobbyist
09:47 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah. if I get a planer/joiner it's gonna be a bigger one.
09:47 AM cehteh: 219Euros
09:47 AM Lambda_Aurigae: want one of the self feeding planers, a regular joiner, and a big band sander.
09:48 AM Lambda_Aurigae: oh geeze..for that money I can get a decent joiner made out of steel almost.
09:48 AM cehteh: huh
09:48 AM Lambda_Aurigae: https://www.lowes.com/pd/PORTER-CABLE-10-Amps-Amp-Bench-Jointer/3059865?cm_mmc=SCE_PLA-_-ToolsAndHardware-_-BenchtopTools-_-3059865:PORTER-CABLE&CAWELAID=&kpid=3059865&CAGPSPN=pla&store_code=581&k_clickID=b91ce28f-6e49-474c-a5ef-f9fe91f47a42
09:49 AM cehteh: i dont see a price
09:49 AM Lambda_Aurigae: https://www.lowes.com/pd/PORTER-CABLE-15-Amp-2-Blade-Planer/3044121
09:49 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I also want one of those.
09:49 AM cehteh: https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B000TGILJC
09:49 AM Lambda_Aurigae: 269 USD for each.
09:50 AM cehteh: .. well its ok and 2 in one, good for my small space
09:50 AM cehteh: 8" is a lot too i prolly never need any more
09:50 AM Lambda_Aurigae: yeah.
09:50 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I like porter cable for that kind of gear but can't always afford it.
09:50 AM Lambda_Aurigae: most of my stuff is ryobi.
09:51 AM Lambda_Aurigae: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-6-Amp-3-1-4-in-Corded-Hand-Planer-HPL52K/205509610?cm_mmc=Shopping%7cTHD%7cG%7c0%7cG-BASE-PLA-D25T-PowerTools%7c&gclid=CNqBlNK3l9ICFQGSaQodjxQOQg&gclsrc=aw.ds
09:51 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I want one of those.
09:51 AM Lambda_Aurigae: 70 USD
09:51 AM cehteh: i have mixed things, where precision and endurance is required high quality stuff, but i have also a 19eur angle grinder which works well
09:52 AM cehteh: and machine prices differ a lot between usa and europe
09:52 AM cehteh: also brands
09:52 AM Lambda_Aurigae: ok...time for conference call.
09:52 AM cehteh: cu
10:05 AM PolishProgrammer: see you
10:08 AM specing: Lambda_Aurigae: do you have li-ion packs or nicd/nimh ones?
10:08 AM specing: I have nicd ones and was thinking of DIY a li-ion one
10:08 AM specing: 5 18650 fit into the NiCD housing
10:12 AM cehteh: serial?
10:15 AM specing: yes
10:15 AM specing: nicd cells are in 15S config
10:16 AM cehteh: i wonder on what attic you found nicd :D
10:16 AM specing: bought 3 years ago in a store
10:17 AM cehteh: but LiIon have different charge characteristics, you should watch each cells voltage and balance charge then and never exceed 4.20V
10:17 AM specing: they were still permitted to sell NiCD tool batteries despite the 10 yo ban on NiCD due to cadmium
10:17 AM cehteh: (or whatever the cell is speced for)
10:17 AM specing: cehteh: I know liion very well.
10:18 AM cehteh: then there should be no problem?
10:18 AM specing: and a bms circuit would be going into the pack as well
10:18 AM specing: my biggest problem is that I don't have a spot welder
10:19 AM cehteh: you can solder them, but you need a huge soldering iron
10:19 AM specing: are you insane?
10:19 AM cehteh: nah very very fast :)
10:19 AM specing: first you are warning about liion then you suggest soldering?
10:20 AM cehteh: dont cook the cells :)
10:20 AM specing: I've already contacted a hackerspace if they have the machine. It is a big investment compared to battery cost/advantages
10:21 AM cehteh: ok
10:39 AM Lambda_Aurigae: specing, li-ion packs...I have a few of the old nicd packs that ryobi shipped 14 years ago but have replaced them all with li-ion packs.
10:39 AM Lambda_Aurigae: much more runtime
10:39 AM Lambda_Aurigae: the small packs run longer than the big older ones...weigh about 1/3
10:39 AM Lambda_Aurigae: the big packs run 4 times what the big old ones did.
10:39 AM Lambda_Aurigae: all my nicd packs have basically died.
10:40 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I've kept them thinking I might make a wired power pack one day.
10:40 AM Lambda_Aurigae: get a transformer to fit inside the pack and provide a good heavy 18V.
10:41 AM Lambda_Aurigae: I have a spot welder...called a car battery and a couple of pencils!
10:41 AM cehteh: have you calculated what shitload of transformer you need for that peak amps?
10:41 AM Lambda_Aurigae: makes a great carbon arc lamp too.
10:42 AM Lambda_Aurigae: cehteh, not yet...gotta make a feed through tap to see what kind of current I draw at full power first.
10:42 AM cehteh: power pack means power for your muscles :)
10:42 AM Lambda_Aurigae: thinking the transformer will probably be in a box at the end of a 30 foot cord.
10:42 AM cehteh: ah
10:42 AM Lambda_Aurigae: was hoping to make a power supply to fit inside the battery housing
10:43 AM cehteh: ok that may work .. but 18V high current .. thick cable
10:43 AM Lambda_Aurigae: but that is probably not going to work.
10:43 AM cehteh: most likely not
10:43 AM Lambda_Aurigae: anyhoo....meetings over..time to go to customer site and install copier.
10:43 AM Lambda_Aurigae: have fun.
10:43 AM cehteh: even if you can overload a transformer for short periods, voltage will drop massively
10:43 AM cehteh: so you need a beefy transformer, thats in the few kilograms range
10:44 AM cehteh: plus rectifier and and if the powertool has any electronics some capacitors too .. *huge* ones at 50/60Hz
10:45 AM specing: Transformer? In the Age of the SMPS?
10:45 AM cehteh: he saied transformer :)
10:46 AM cehteh: high current SMPS for power tool feels wrong too
10:47 AM cehteh: i'd say the answer is more power packs .. then you can always swap and charge while you are working
10:59 AM PolishProgrammer: i recently picked a load of transformers
10:59 AM PolishProgrammer: i got a 9 V trafo from and old modem(?)
10:59 AM specing: cehteh: or just put 5 liion in series
10:59 AM PolishProgrammer: ill try to build a power supply
12:08 PM PolishProgrammer: Lambda_Aurigae, you can make a spot welder with transformers from a microwave
12:08 PM PolishProgrammer: i heard so
12:09 PM specing: yes
12:09 PM specing: http://www.avdweb.nl/arduino/hardware-interfacing/spot-welder-controller.html#h2-universal-nbsp-arduino-solid-state-relay-dimmer
12:10 PM specing: I was actually searching if it is possible to build one out of a conventional welder
12:10 PM specing: so I'd have one machine for two tasks
12:10 PM PolishProgrammer: conventional like the one gas-powered?
12:10 PM PolishProgrammer: or just regular electric welder?
12:11 PM specing: the later
12:15 PM cehteh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNymbU9I-o4
12:51 PM bss36504: Anybody know a channel with people who know SKILL?
02:01 PM JanC is now known as Guest50386
02:01 PM JanC_ is now known as JanC
03:27 PM Lambda_Aurigae: PolishProgrammer, yeah...can also just jimmy the door interlock and make a heater for your doghouse....kindasorta.
03:28 PM Lambda_Aurigae: bss36504, I have several skills...does that county?
03:28 PM Lambda_Aurigae: count
03:29 PM PolishProgrammer: hehe
03:30 PM PolishProgrammer: dogs would not like the spinning floor though
03:30 PM grafi_: Not so related to AVR, but I'm trying to figure out a RF payload from a temperature sensor, 9 bytes. I've scanned the the bits and bytes in all directions looking for a known float value, 32 and 64 bit, but no luck so far.
03:31 PM grafi_: anyone know of any articles/sites that can be helpful on the subject?
03:34 PM bss36504: Lambda_Aurigae: If you dont know Cadence (gun to head) SKILL(myself), then that won't help haha
03:36 PM Lambda_Aurigae: Cadence Orcad
03:36 PM Lambda_Aurigae: SKILL-Saw
03:37 PM Lambda_Aurigae: grafi_, kinda would help if we knew something about what chip(s) are involved.
03:38 PM Lambda_Aurigae: I think I have a copy of Cadence Orcad 10 here somewhere....haven't used it in years though.
03:39 PM PolishProgrammer: grafi, does it output any digital data?
03:40 PM bss36504: This is for virtuoso, ie IC design. It's just a bastard language with a bastard piece of shit schematic editor
03:41 PM bss36504: Let me just say this, Eagle has better schematic capture than this shit
03:41 PM grafi_: CC1101, GFSK modulation, Manchester encoding, CRC/LQI/RSSI enabled.
03:42 PM bss36504: I understand that when they first wrote it there were really no other EDA packages available, but Cadence is just such a bully of a company that they buy out anything better so they don't have to improve UX
03:42 PM bss36504: It seems as though the guys who wrote the schematic editor have never used another schematic editor...or even a 2D cad software.
03:42 PM bss36504: </rant>
03:42 PM PolishProgrammer: grafi, oh RF
03:42 PM PolishProgrammer: i dont think i can help :D
03:43 PM Lambda_Aurigae: bss36504, and were on some serious class-1 hallucinagenic drugs at the time too.
03:44 PM grafi_: I have the payload in raw bytes, and from the looking at the device it should contain a float with at least one decimal. I've made a script that goes through payload looking for a 32 and 64 bit float value, checking both the original and the reverse order of the bits and/or the bytes
03:44 PM Lambda_Aurigae: grafi_, I'm betting it's fixed point rather than float.
03:45 PM grafi_: maybe it is packet or encrypted some how
03:45 PM grafi_: you mean it might be multiplied with i.e. 1000 and then divided on the receiver end?
03:46 PM Lambda_Aurigae: no..fixed point...or it could just be integer data which is more likely.
03:51 PM PolishProgrammer: hmm, what kind of sensor?
03:51 PM grafi_: oh, fixed point as in each byte represents one digit? :]
03:51 PM PolishProgrammer: can you make a hexdump?
03:53 PM grafi_: http://www.veriafloorheating.com/en/products/veria-controls/veria-control-t45.aspx floor heating thingy
03:55 PM PolishProgrammer: this looks like a cool hardware hacking project
03:55 PM grafi_: 0x31, 0x00, 0xF2, 0x02, 0x00, 0x89, 0x4B, 0x9A, 0x23 -> should represent 28.5 (celsius)
03:55 PM grafi_: 0x31, 0x00, 0xF2, 0x02, 0x00, 0x8A, 0x0B, 0x9B, 0x03
03:55 PM grafi_: should yield 29.0
03:55 PM PolishProgrammer: the first 4 bytes are the same
03:56 PM PolishProgrammer: header?
03:56 PM grafi_: header consits of only packet length and address
03:59 PM PolishProgrammer: this might be a coincidence but some nibbles are the same
04:02 PM PolishProgrammer: try putting it in 0 deg C and see what it sends
04:02 PM grafi_: i think it might be giving some other data as well since it's not a regular temperature sensor per se, but i dont know
04:02 PM PolishProgrammer: is that the whole packet?
04:08 PM PolishProgrammer: try to analyze the reading is known temps, sometging may come out. see you all
05:40 PM hetii: hi :)
05:42 PM hetii: I play a bit with ATX psu on my HTPC and notive one odd think, when I touch radiator for primary side, without touching enything else my psu shutdown itself, when I take finger then it start again after few second
05:42 PM hetii: so wonder if its some sort protection or do I change by accident maybe something with frequency on it and thats why he stop working.
05:44 PM hetii: Its happen when I don`t use ground connection to the main AC as I see now.
05:53 PM Casper: you introduce noise and cause instability
05:53 PM Casper: and could damage something, or you can get killed
05:53 PM Casper: don't those it
05:54 PM Casper: it may be energised to 170+V
06:01 PM hetii: Yep I know but hope that EMI filter works fine and don`t pass enough current, but other side its just capacitors :)
06:01 PM Lambda_Aurigae: it's a tuned oscillator and by touching it you are likely changing the frequency...
06:01 PM Lambda_Aurigae: change it enough, it stops oscillating.
06:02 PM hetii: still a bit odd, cause many houses still don`t have proper grounding and many pc works just with L and N line
06:03 PM Lambda_Aurigae: and you aren't running the PC with the case off and touching bits inside.
06:05 PM hetii: well I notice the same issue while I connect this ground to the case
06:05 PM hetii: not sure how this will act in real pc
06:05 PM hetii: btw its PSU from black list :)
06:06 PM Lambda_Aurigae: whatever "black list" is
06:06 PM Lambda_Aurigae: but, you still don't run it in the PC with the cover off and go touching stuff inside.
06:06 PM Lambda_Aurigae: sounds like you are detuning the oscillator when you do that.
06:07 PM hetii: but in real world you touch PC that is connected to PSU case and without grounding its possible that it will crazy :)
06:07 PM hetii: not a big deal cause I will use grounding but something that is a bit odd for me
06:08 PM Lambda_Aurigae: you said you touch the radiator...assuming you mean heatsink...on a PC power supply, at least the ones I have, that is inside a metal case and not normally touchable.
06:08 PM Lambda_Aurigae: somehow you are introducing stray capacitance and detuning the switching oscillator or possibly introducing a static charge that is causing a mosfet to lock open.
06:09 PM hetii: yep
06:10 PM Lambda_Aurigae: so,,,DON'T TOUCH IT! problem solved. :}
06:10 PM hetii: ok some other question, I change general the case and fan for this project, and wonder now how huge temperature I should allow to be inside this case or maybe in heatsink
06:11 PM hetii: *on
06:11 PM Lambda_Aurigae: if it catches fire,,,too much heat.
06:12 PM hetii: would be nice to avoid fire test :)
06:12 PM Lambda_Aurigae: then what is the temperature rating of the parts in the case?
06:13 PM Lambda_Aurigae: stay at least 10degC below the lowest rated part.
06:14 PM hetii: I just see temperature on huge capacitor after bridge diode and its rated to max 105degC
06:14 PM hetii: I think about some limit at 80degC
06:15 PM Lambda_Aurigae: probably safe.
06:16 PM hetii: at the beginning it was project for one weekend, and already I spend one week :(