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[05:28:38] <carabia> wawaweewa
http://hackaday.com/2017/01/30/hacking-together-a-serial-backpack/
[05:28:42] <carabia> ^ bss36504
[05:29:33] <carabia> apparently this is the threshold to get into hackaday front page
[05:38:48] <malinus> how is that better than a serial cable+computer?
[05:50:37] <kline> malinus, lower power, smaller, lighter, the list goes on
[05:50:48] <kline> but i agree its not a particularly interesting or challenging project
[05:55:00] <malinus> if you need to debug your embedded system, you will need a computer anyway...
[06:18:39] <kline> whoever said it was for debug?
[06:18:52] <kline> it could be just as easily used for just displaying logs etc
[06:31:59] <carabia> "lower power log displayer"
[06:32:06] <carabia> seems like the new trend to me
[06:32:22] <carabia> #2 right after interweb of thongs
[06:34:45] <malinus> kline: then just have it as part of your product
[06:46:01] <kline> malinus, vOv
[06:46:03] <kline> i didnt make it
[06:53:56] <carabia> kline's "the list goes on" in reality translates to "that's all"
[06:54:59] <kline> carabia, cheaper, more easily replaceable, more robust, the list goes on
[06:55:42] <kline> "thats all" in reality translates to "im not some turboautist whos going to spend 20 minutes listing screeds of examples when i think the point is made"
[06:56:49] <carabia> :D
[06:57:00] <carabia> good one sir
[06:57:34] <carabia> i like you.
[06:58:13] <carabia> however, log displaying on such a thing would be a pain in the ass, to say the very least
[06:58:55] <kline> hey, i didnt make it, im just trying to imagine what the original designer did
[06:59:24] <kline> and as i said, i dont really think its front-page worthy of just about anywhere either, being fairly uninteresting and simple
[07:00:09] <carabia> yeah, i'm not saying it's not useful either, however it makes me think is the maker movement in a stalemate as hackaday seems to get worse by the day
[07:00:24] <carabia> forgot the double quotes around maker movement.
[07:01:04] <kline> it's funny, i basically came to the same conclusion with one of the other #arduino ops
[07:01:12] <kline> maker movement is seemingly dead
[07:01:43] <kline> fad's over, everyone is either making shit commercial "IoT" or webapps again
[07:02:07] <kline> 3D printing and electronic art has slid back into the realms of prop makers and cosplayers
[07:02:20] <kline> (i cant say im particularly sad)
[07:03:56] <carabia> corps gotta keep on pumping green into IoT
[07:04:05] <carabia> too late to back the fuck down now
[07:04:36] <kline> probably peak IoT was IBMs restructuring including an IoT arm
[07:06:03] <kline> (not Watson IoT, but their IoT Services arm, which is basically the same business network services arm they had before the reshuffle with some extra management consultancy folded in for efficiency's sake, but rebranded)
[07:06:10] <kline> https://www-935.ibm.com/services/us/business-consulting/digital-operations-internetofthings/
[07:07:37] <kline> i had a friend who worked for IBM on Rational DOORS whos entire team was moved into IoT Services, basically nothing changed. they still wrote requirements management software but now its ~IoT requirements management~
[07:08:58] <carabia> wouldn't expect anything more of a house the size of IBM
[07:21:20] <malinus> hehe
[07:23:21] <malinus> btw. which on is not now, arduino.org or .cc? A customer ~requires~ me to use the arduino industrial. Because there is ~industrial~ in its name :V
[07:23:27] <malinus> and it has to be ~arduino~
[07:40:24] <skz81> doesn't mean some hardened version of so-called open source arduino schematics ? (For industrial environement,dust & vibration, that is)
[07:42:39] <skz81> ha ! that !
http://www.arduino.org/products/boards/arduino-industrial-101
[07:49:31] <malinus> yep :V
[07:53:05] <kline> skz81, whats not open source about the schematics?
[07:56:44] <skz81> kline, badly ordered my sentence... "... so-called 'Arduino' open source schematics ..." reads better
[07:57:07] <kline> fair
[08:49:01] <Emil> malinus: tell your customet that they shouldnt be idiots
[08:49:15] <Emil> Also .cc is the better onr
[08:52:17] <kline> .cc """manages""" the """community"""
[08:52:30] <kline> .org produces shedloads of hardware of dubious need
[09:01:27] <malinus> kline: thanks for the short one, exactly what I've needed :)
[09:21:18] <ENHering> Hi.
[09:21:28] <ENHering> G*od morning!
[09:24:04] <shangul> hi, good anything
[09:28:10] <rue_house> 'designed for product integration", heh, seeing as most people are just shoving an arduino in their project anyhow
[09:28:27] <rue_house> cant wait to hear about the first arduino bootloader hack for a commercial product
[09:36:45] <rue_house> from the cc, it looks like its all owned by sparkfun
[09:40:23] <ENHering> I removed all arduino stuff from my modules. All the libraries I use were rewritten and are uploaded to the IC via an ISP programmer
[09:41:53] <rue_house> I wonder how much of the avr market is in arduinos
[09:42:01] <rue_house> it'd be pretty big
[09:42:29] <ENHering> The arduino libraries are very messy at some basic level
[09:42:39] <ENHering> And heavily dependent on wiring
[09:42:40] <rue_house> they are horrible
[09:43:02] <rue_house> the code in the arduino libraries is buckshot with problems
[09:43:36] <rue_house> more funny, is people dont seem to care
[09:43:39] <ENHering> It took me a long time to understand and separate the code I needed. Then another long time to rewrite it using the datasheet and other internet sources.
[09:44:00] <LeoNerd> rue_house: Duplo bricks are structurally unsound for building a house with. Again, people don't care
[09:44:11] <LeoNerd> They're mostly used to teach toddlers basic "interaction with the world"
[09:44:12] <ENHering> Arduino is made for people for whom setup() and loop() is complex enough.
[09:44:18] <LeoNerd> That's my view anyway ;)
[09:44:28] <rue_house> its when the leading wav library plays the header as audio that I start smacking my head on the table
[09:45:15] <_ami_> ENHering: never say these statements in #arduino, you would start a WAR! :P
[09:45:20] <LeoNerd> Hah
[09:45:20] <ENHering> For most of the people Arduino, or wiring, is a confortable entry point in microcontroller world.
[09:45:26] <LeoNerd> Well, yes; there's reasons why #avr is not #arduino ;)
[09:46:16] <_ami_> today, i saw two well known persons were fighting over Wet sponge vs Brass Sponge :)
[09:46:19] <ENHering> Another reason I removed arduino is to enable the MSPIM of the atmega 328
[09:46:27] <_ami_> at #arduino
[09:47:02] <LeoNerd> MPSIM?
[09:47:02] <ENHering> Arduino is important. It is bringing a lot of people into electronics.
[09:47:19] <ENHering> atmega328p has a second SPI, which works only in master mode.
[09:47:30] <_ami_> yes, that i agree too. the whole maker movement has started because of arduino.
[09:47:31] <LeoNerd> Ohright, that
[09:47:38] <LeoNerd> The "UART in SPI master mode"?
[09:47:45] <ENHering> Yep, LeoNerd
[09:47:54] <_ami_> even i got introduced to Electronics because of arduino.
[09:47:54] <LeoNerd> Yah, no surprise that Arduino doesn't wrap that
[09:47:59] <ENHering> I use it to talk to sensors in sensor submodules
[09:48:26] <ENHering> Arduino cannot wrap that because they use the UART for transfering their code
[09:48:27] <LeoNerd> I've never had a project I thought needed a second SPI or I²C master. I've always found one of each sufficient
[09:48:28] <_ami_> but i got bored with arduino in few days because it was just too easy for me. :D
[09:49:14] <LeoNerd> Plus I'm one of those lazy "debug via serial port printf" types, so I like to keep the UART free :)
[09:49:18] <ENHering> LeoNerd: I have an MCU module with an AVR and connections to smaller modules. The second SPI is used to talk to those submodules.
[09:49:45] <LeoNerd> But why two full SPI units though?
[09:50:06] <LeoNerd> Unless you need the full-duplex bandwidth of keeping them both spinning
[09:52:07] <LeoNerd> Oh actually I tell a lie. I did once almost want two I²C master modules, so I could have a 100kHz bus separate from a 400kHz bus, but in the end I just found a better slave module that can talk 400
[09:53:17] <_ENHering_> Sorry. Network went down here
[09:53:58] <_ENHering_> When you use the second SPI, debugging must be done through another module, connected to the first SPI.
[09:53:58] <LeoNerd> *tut*
[09:54:18] <LeoNerd> Yah but my question was why you needed two SPI masters in the first place
[09:54:27] <LeoNerd> The usual method is a single SPI master and as many SS lines as required
[09:56:04] <_ENHering_> LeoNerd: I have a system with many modules. One of them is the main SPI bus master. The other ones are main SPI bus slaves. Each of those slaves can carry a sub module. For example, I have a 9dof submodule with 4 sensors. Two SPI and two I2C
[09:56:59] <_ENHering_> https://hackaday.io/project/11724-yauvc-yet-another-unmanned-vehicle-controller
[09:57:46] <_ENHering_> Each MCU module needs one SPI to talk to the main bus, as a slave, and another to talk to its submodule as master.
[09:57:57] <LeoNerd> Ooohright; so one slave and one master
[09:58:06] <_ENHering_> Yep.
[09:58:10] <LeoNerd> That was a subtle distinction I didn't catch until now
[09:58:16] <LeoNerd> OK yes that would make sense then
[09:58:35] <_ENHering_> In this way I can upgrade any system module without interfering with others, as long as I keep the module connections the same.
[09:59:18] <_ENHering_> HW or SW upgrade. Same with classes. Simple classes for each module
[09:59:23] <_ENHering_> and for each sensor.
[09:59:34] * LeoNerd nod
[10:00:30] <LeoNerd> Oh while we're on a *vaguely* related topic: Does anyone know of ... ideally... a MSOP8 or SOT23-8-sized logic gate, being a single D-latch with an asynchronous reset line?
[10:01:04] <LeoNerd> I had a wonderful plan to use those on an SPI bus, where the "SS" line is in fact the latch clock for a series of D-latches, arranged in a chain, one per slave
[10:01:36] <LeoNerd> So to select a slave, you clock out a series of bits to set the SS lines of the real slaves, then release the SS line and talk to the real addressed slave, then reset them again
[10:02:56] <_ENHering_> Interesting idea
[10:03:48] <_ENHering_> that would leave many ports free
[10:04:05] <LeoNerd> It sortof adds I²C-style "addressing" to the SPI concept, giving you a fixed set of 4 IO lines on the master that doesn't need one per slave, but also avoids the numbering clash problem with some I²C modules, by being based on the physical chaining structure of the chips; more akin to JTAG
[10:04:40] <LeoNerd> That said, most (real) SPI devices have a "NOP" concept, so you can at least in theory manage this via them
[10:06:06] <_ENHering_> Can you do that via i2c? Call an I2C device that selects the desired ss line?
[10:06:39] <LeoNerd> No, I²C starts with the slave-addressing byte, which requires address numbering per slave
[10:06:49] <LeoNerd> The I²C bus topology is symmetric
[10:07:17] <LeoNerd> So all slaves appear equivalent. My SPI-bus-ish thing above has the chaining link between the SS D-latches, to act as its addressing
[10:07:29] <_ENHering_> i mean... an i2c device with many logic outputs that would be connected to spi devices
[10:07:50] <LeoNerd> Ohsure, there's loads of them around
[10:07:55] <LeoNerd> "GPIO expanders"
[10:08:00] <_ENHering_> Sorry. I'm a complete ignorant in electronics.
[10:08:17] <LeoNerd> I've used those in the past too. Stick a cheap PCF8574 on an I²C bus, use its 8 output lines as SS pins for SPI devices
[10:08:31] <LeoNerd> It works, but then means you're also using the entire I²C bus *in addition* to the SPI module
[10:09:00] <_ENHering_> I compromise many gpios of the com module now. With such a thing i could even use a smaller avr
[10:09:26] <LeoNerd> It's generally not that good an idea, though
[10:09:55] <LeoNerd> If you're on one board, it's easier to route more traces from a bigger MCU, than add extra parts
[10:10:15] <LeoNerd> I sometimes use this arrangement if I'm split between two or three boards though because it reduces interconnect
[10:10:25] <_ENHering_> the backbone pcb has eight slots. i needed 16 gpios, but have only 11. 8 for ss, 8 foe reset
[10:10:36] <LeoNerd> Mmm
[10:10:47] <LeoNerd> Ah, in that case I'd suggest something like a 74'595
[10:11:00] <_ENHering_> i ended leaving only 1 for reset
[10:11:06] <LeoNerd> Use one GPIO for the latch line of a shift register, whose outputs are the SS or RESET lines of the individual slots
[10:11:19] <LeoNerd> Stick said SR on the SPI bus
[10:11:33] <_ENHering_> interesting
[10:11:48] <LeoNerd> 595s also make great SS expansion chips. I've done that before too
[10:12:09] <LeoNerd> Using them on SS expansion is handy because you don't need to read in from them, only output. The only slight downside is the output is inverted
[10:12:13] <_ENHering_> that thing is tough enough? if it dies, everything dies.
[10:12:21] <LeoNerd> I would really love to find a 595-shaped chip with asynchronous /set/ instead of reset
[10:12:25] <LeoNerd> Or inverted outputs, or something
[10:12:49] <LeoNerd> If it had inverted outputs you could write out (1<<n) to select the n'th slave, then simply reset the SR itself to deselect
[10:12:54] <_ENHering_> i'll study that
[10:13:00] <LeoNerd> Rather than having to write out ~(1<<n) and then 0xff to deselect
[10:13:23] <_ENHering_> thanks for the tips
[10:13:40] <LeoNerd> Sure you *could* just stick an 8-way inverter chip in front of it, but.. eugh. By that time your BOM and placement cost is even higher and you just wanted a bigger MCU in the first place
[10:14:01] <_ENHering_> don't you want to join this project? open source, open hardware, easy to help
[10:14:21] <_ENHering_> all kicad...
[10:19:31] <_ENHering_> Sorry for the invitation, LeoNerd. You can just ignore it.
[10:19:48] <LeoNerd> Ugh.. no google. When I search for "shift register inverting output", I don't want matches of "non-inverting"
[10:19:53] <LeoNerd> That is, quite literally, the opposite of what I wanted
[10:20:32] <_ENHering_> Put inside double quotes
[10:23:45] <_ENHering_> Is is easy to attach a SR to SPI?
[10:26:15] <LeoNerd> Trivial
[10:26:23] <LeoNerd> E.g. 74'595 will JustWork
[10:26:47] <LeoNerd> You can also put a chain of them together to get 16, 24, ... any number of bytes of parallel output
[10:27:00] <_ENHering_> I'll try to find more on that. Very interesting.
[10:28:11] <_ENHering_> The problem I'm facing now is that, somehow, When I interrogate the accelerometer everything is slowing down a lot. I may have messed the MSPIM clock.
[10:30:17] <LeoNerd> BTW, if it's possible for you, you might consider updating to the ATmega328PB
[10:30:30] <LeoNerd> That has two real SPI units in it (and two I²Cs and two USARTs and allsorts else)
[10:30:57] <LeoNerd> It might be nicer to have two real SPIs, instead of using the USART in MPSIM
[10:31:46] <_ENHering_> I'd like to, but my stock came from a project I applied for a long ago. I have 200 units of 328p
[10:32:02] <_ENHering_> And enough sensors to build 20 systems.
[10:32:22] <LeoNerd> Ahh
[10:32:25] <LeoNerd> That's unfortunate
[10:32:33] <LeoNerd> (The 328PB is a very nice chip ;) )
[10:32:37] <LeoNerd> A long-deserved update
[10:32:43] <_ENHering_> As everything is modular, I'm not worried. Everything can be upgraded later, part by part.
[10:33:57] <_ENHering_> I read about 328pb. What I wanted is a tyny like AVR with two SPIs and one I2c, or with CAN, SPI and i2c
[10:34:17] <LeoNerd> There are a few specialised AVRs with a CAN controller on, but quite rare
[10:34:28] <_ENHering_> 12x series, I believe
[10:35:01] <_ENHering_> having can between modules would be very nice. But it would require a complete review of the system.
[10:35:19] <_ENHering_> And I want to keep everything cheap. Very cheap.
[10:35:54] <LeoNerd> I've become quite a fan of RS-485 lately
[10:36:07] <_ENHering_> AVR too?
[10:36:10] <LeoNerd> But I tend to mostly build stage equipment
[10:36:32] <LeoNerd> RS-485 is an electrical-level spec. Usually you'd just use something like async serial over it
[10:36:50] <_ENHering_> ops.
[10:37:18] <LeoNerd> It's the electrical basis behind DMX-512, for example
[10:37:31] <LeoNerd> Where it runs at the somewhat-odd baud rate of 250k
[10:37:51] <LeoNerd> Convenient for microcontrollers, whose timing crystal is usually a whole number of MHz
[10:37:52] <_ENHering_> interesting
[10:38:07] <LeoNerd> 16MHz crystal divides nicely even for 250kBaud
[10:39:48] <_ENHering_> I have a lot to learn.
[10:43:17] <_ENHering_> Amazing! suddenly everything started working!
[10:43:38] <_ENHering_> I think I have killed that bug. Now I have accelerometer readings!
[10:44:56] <_ENHering_> Having the right tools makes a lot of difference. I need an oscilloscope with a LA.
[10:45:56] <LeoNerd> Nah
[10:45:58] <LeoNerd> Separate LA
[10:46:04] <LeoNerd> Scope with LA is *expensive*
[10:46:09] <_ENHering_> indeed
[10:46:12] <LeoNerd> Dedicated LAs can be had for.. dunno... $20 ?
[10:46:16] <LeoNerd> I paid that for mine :)
[10:46:32] <LeoNerd> Plus I can use my laptop screen which is a lot bigger than the scope
[10:46:49] <_ENHering_> Can you suggest me one?
[10:47:12] <LeoNerd> Any of the cheap $20 ones that come in a little black box should be fine.. double-check the Sigrok.org page
[10:47:16] <LeoNerd> The Saleae clones
[10:47:28] <LeoNerd> A real Saleae will work too, but that comes at the cost
[10:47:44] <_ENHering_> I was given this suggestion before. Just could not buy yet. I'll do it now.
[10:47:50] <LeoNerd> Depends what speed you want... mine will work fine up to about 4MS/sec, but not too reliable faster than that
[10:48:30] <_ENHering_> My AVRs are running at 8MHz, 3.3V
[10:49:03] <LeoNerd> Yah, so at absolute fastest you'll be talking SPI at 2MHz
[10:49:06] <_ENHering_> The SPI bus is running at 1/128 now. Hopefully they will be upgraded to 1/16 in the future
[10:49:12] <LeoNerd> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/272467075989 <== things like that should cope
[10:49:35] <LeoNerd> That's what I have. It's a clone of the Saleae Logic 8. The only real difference is it can't capture at full USB bus rate
[10:49:54] <LeoNerd> That plus the free software that is Sigrok, serves me very well indeed
[10:50:38] <_ENHering_> Thanks a lot.
[10:50:49] <_ENHering_> I found it at $16.
[10:51:01] <LeoNerd> Sounds about right
[10:51:13] <LeoNerd> Don't forget probe cables - I doubt the cheap ones come with any
[10:52:12] <_ENHering_> I'll try not to
[10:54:31] <_ENHering_> Another stupid question. Does it work on Mac?
[10:57:41] <LeoNerd> Ah no idea. I'd imagine so - check sigrok.org
[10:58:06] <LeoNerd> If not, the folks in #sigrok could probably assist
[11:04:15] <_ENHering_> LeoNerd: is this too bad?
http://www.dx.com/pt/p/usb-oscilloscope-and-logic-analyzer-93518?tc=BRL&gclid=Cj0KEQiAiMHEBRC034nx2ImB1J0BEiQA-r7ctnpo-KcONbG1QuL72XZW4QjzK0IFW_dnAmU9JxHSA4AaApH08P8HAQ#.WJC8chiZPOQ
[11:05:48] <LeoNerd> No idea what's in it
[11:05:53] <LeoNerd> Does Sigrok support it??
[11:05:57] <LeoNerd> That's my gold standard lately
[11:07:17] <LeoNerd> 16MS/sec on the analog channels. I can't read much of the rest of the page text, but I don't see where it gives voltage level inputs or analog resolution
[11:08:44] <_ENHering_> I found one supported by sigrok. usbeeax pro.
http://www.dx.com/pt/p/usb-oscilloscope-and-logic-analyzer-93518?tc=BRL&gclid=Cj0KEQiAiMHEBRC034nx2ImB1J0BEiQA-r7ctnpo-KcONbG1QuL72XZW4QjzK0IFW_dnAmU9JxHSA4AaApH08P8HAQ#.WJC8chiZPOQ
[11:08:58] <_ENHering_> Reaches Brazil easily.
[11:09:05] <_ENHering_> I usually by from DX.
[11:09:06] <LeoNerd> Er, that's the same one
[11:09:12] <_ENHering_> ops.
[11:09:40] <_ENHering_> So. This one is supported.
[11:11:14] <_ENHering_> Seems to be a clone of usbee ax pro
[11:12:48] * LeoNerd nod
[11:12:55] <LeoNerd> Yah; much like the other units are a cheap clone of the Saleae
[11:13:06] <LeoNerd> Could be cute, I've not used it before so I can't really comment
[11:14:09] <_ENHering_> I 'll discover in one month... :)
[11:14:30] <_ENHering_> And share what I learn.
[11:15:00] <_ENHering_> $9, free shipping.
[11:15:12] <LeoNerd> Tell #sigrok about it
[11:15:22] <_ENHering_> Ok
[11:16:13] <_ENHering_> Amazing! Now I have accelerometer data via wifi! :)
[11:16:34] <LeoNerd> \o/
[11:16:55] <_ENHering_> The airplane stabilization code was tested at flightgear + some code I've written.
[11:17:43] <_ENHering_> Flightgear sent the data to my program, which bridged it via uart to an arduino, which computed the commands and sent everything back to flighgear.
[11:18:06] <_ENHering_> And the plane actually flew from one waypoint to another.
[11:18:36] <_ENHering_> Most amazing thing when bugs go away.
[11:21:52] * _ENHering_ goes to eat something
[14:36:24] <hetii> Hello :)
[14:36:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> olleh
[14:37:10] <hetii> I don`t know if you know this method of making PCB, but today I test it and works perfect:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBIxvwZ_0og
[14:37:31] <hetii> My pcb result:
http://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/viewtopic.php?p=16243460#16243460
[14:38:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah.
[14:38:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> several years old at least.
[14:38:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> I use press-n-peel blue and a t-shirt press modified to do flat things.
[14:39:13] <hetii> sad that I don`t see it early :(
[14:42:25] <hetii> Lambda_Aurigae, did you use heating in your process ?
[14:42:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> yes.
[14:42:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> print on the press-n-peel sheet
[14:42:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> then iron it on to the board and peel the sheet off.
[14:43:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> best way I found to iron on was with a decent size t-shirt press.
[14:43:32] <hetii> hmm looks more like old way of termo transfer
[14:43:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> yes..that's what I do.
[14:43:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> thermal transfer
[14:44:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> press-n-peel blue is a plastic sheet with a powder coat on one side.
[14:44:26] <hetii> I see, never use it
[14:44:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> it peels off the plastic sheet relatively easily.
[14:44:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> you print on the powder coated side
[14:44:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> then iron it on.
[14:45:22] <hetii> Why Iron ? is not possible doing that by this t-shirt press ?
[14:45:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> t-shirt press is a big iron.
[14:45:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> i started doing it with a hand held iron.
[14:45:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> couldn't get a good even pressure that way.
[14:46:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> hence the t-shirt press.
[14:46:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> nice even pressure and temperature.
[14:46:30] <hetii> so you use two irons at the end
[14:46:32] <hetii> hmm
[14:46:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> no
[14:46:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> just the one...the t-shirt press.
[14:46:40] <carabia> _ENHering_: how good's flightgear? good being highly subjective, last flight sim i tried was msfs 98
[14:46:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> flightgear is ok.
[14:46:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> I prefer x-plane
[14:47:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> but x-plane is a bit pricy.
[14:47:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've been running x-plane since version 6.
[14:47:18] <carabia> looks like $60, not that bad
[14:47:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah.
[14:47:26] <hetii> ahh ok I thought that you do some pre-heating by regular iron and then use t-shirt press to finish.
[14:47:28] <carabia> would want some kind of a trial, though
[14:47:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> and it comes with worldwide stuff.
[14:47:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> there is a trial.
[14:47:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> 1GB download.
[14:47:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> limited time run before it disables the controls.
[14:47:59] <carabia> can you remember for how long?
[14:48:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> like 15 minutes.
[14:48:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> just kill the program and restart and it starts back up nicely.
[14:49:08] <hetii> Lambda_Aurigae, did you try maybe a photosensitive dry film and 500mW/405nm UV laser and CNC ?
[14:49:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> never tried the photosensitive dry film...would like to.
[14:49:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> I am on version 3 of my CNC
[14:49:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> and have made UV lasers a couple of times...nitrogen fed pulse laser.
[14:50:20] <carabia> friend has one of those fancy thrustmaster sticks, could probably borrow it, in case it turns out good. any idea how much fiddling sticks take?
[14:50:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> very configurable.
[14:50:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> all depends on your OS really.
[14:51:01] <carabia> i'm on comm... i mean loonix.
[14:51:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> bit more difficult with linux
[14:51:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> but not too difficult.
[14:51:37] <carabia> yeah, gonna give x-plane a go.
[14:53:00] <carabia> i miss model flying, but can't be bothered anymore. a sim will do.
[14:53:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> there's a model size plane and way to fly it by standing on the field.
[14:53:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> or you can fly first person
[14:53:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> even fly on mars.
[14:53:49] <carabia> haha, i've never liked model sims
[14:53:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> the full x-plane has worldwide scenery.
[14:54:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> x-plane has the most accurate flight model of any flight sim out there for under 1000 dollars.
[14:54:07] <carabia> realflight (iirc) was as good as it gets, but still it was very very bad.
[14:54:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> you can create your own aircraft, airfoils for wings, etc.
[14:55:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> there are hundreds of planes out there for free and more for sale for it.
[14:55:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> and, with the right license, you can get actual flight training credit with it.
[14:56:12] <carabia> sure, but no matter how many hours and/or dollars i'd throw at it, i couldn't get wings so i'll just be stranded on the ground
[15:06:00] <_ENHering_> Hi.
[15:06:39] <_ENHering_> Flightgear is highly subjective good. Works even on Mac. For free software it is very good, and has a programming interface.
[15:07:06] <_ENHering_> Never tried x-plane. Must be better, as it is paid.
[15:08:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have several clients who are flight schools and they all use x-plane.
[15:09:06] <_ENHering_> Lambda_Aurigae: I use a cheap IR laser (<$20USD) in my cnc to evaporate black spray ink from the top of the PCB. It is still experimental, but has shown some nice results.
[15:10:20] <_ENHering_> Flightgear consumes a lot of CPU... Does x-plane have a data link too? Flightgear can expel any data you want via TCP outside the simulator.
[15:11:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup..
[15:11:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've even run it on multiple computers to offload processing for multiple displays.
[15:11:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's a royal pain in the arse to get setup right.
[15:12:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> but great for a massive flight sim setup.
[15:12:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> and you can run head to head with other people too.
[15:12:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> formation flying and such.
[15:12:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> have done a few internet connected 8 plane formation flights.
[15:12:33] <_ENHering_> Nice!
[15:12:44] <_ENHering_> Seems to worth the price then.
[15:12:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah...
[15:12:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've bought 3 versions so far.
[15:13:02] <_ENHering_> Downloading it.
[15:13:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> thinking of buying the next one up.
[15:13:34] <_ENHering_> I hope my mac (2010) handles it
[15:14:03] <_ENHering_> Have you treid extracting data from it?
[15:14:08] <_ENHering_> tryed
[15:14:18] <_ENHering_> or tried?
[15:14:24] <_ENHering_> Jesus... Bad memory.
[15:14:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> extracting what data?
[15:14:56] <_ENHering_> Altitude, attitude, speed, etc.
[15:15:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> oh, that's easy..there is a way to feed the data out.
[15:15:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> lots of people have made usb and serial port attached instruments for it.
[15:15:28] <_ENHering_> I used it to test my code on flightgear
[15:15:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> like, take real airplane dash panel instruments and wire them to the computer.
[15:15:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> artificial horizon, altimeter, etc.
[15:15:56] <_ENHering_> Interesting.
[15:16:07] <_ENHering_> You run it on pc or mac?
[15:16:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> when v-usb came out I made several such devices with avr microcontrollers.
[15:16:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> linux pc
[15:16:36] <_ENHering_> good
[15:16:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> I refuse to pay the horrid prices for mac hardware
[15:17:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> and refuse t run windows for personal hatred reasons.
[15:19:05] <_ENHering_> Mac hardware is expensive. But it is soooo goood. The OS is soooo perfect... And I've used and defended linux for decades. On Mac I have bsd on bottom and a wonderful computer on top. A 2010 computer is still competitive and responsive, with the latest os.
[15:19:33] <_ENHering_> I do all I did in linux.
[15:19:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have to disagree.
[15:19:45] <_ENHering_> Many people do
[15:19:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> I hate the mac interface.
[15:19:49] <_ENHering_> But I like it.
[15:19:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> the hardware is meh
[15:20:04] <_ENHering_> Mac interface works flawlessly.
[15:20:20] <_ENHering_> DAughter crying. I ll be back later
[15:20:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> and I find every mac I've ever touched to be,,,less than really responsive.
[15:20:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> click and wait.
[15:21:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> even the i7 powermac we have at work is,,,not nearly as responsive as an i5 running ubuntu-mate
[15:33:40] <_ENHering_> my 2010 model started getting very slow. I upgraded ram to 8Gb and HD to SSD. I use it daily without problems. But I also love linux. Windows never enters my house.
[15:34:08] <_ENHering_> Most of my work is command line.
[15:36:46] <_ENHering_> I really value your opinion, Lambda_Aurigae. We can build an amazing infrastructure in lunix with a fraction of the cost of the same from apple
[15:38:19] <_ENHering_> *linux
[15:38:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have to use windows for work
[15:38:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> for my xerox manuals
[15:39:09] <_ENHering_> This is bad karma.
[15:39:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> that are fully integrated into explorer with some proprietary encryption software.
[15:39:40] <_ENHering_> People at CEA france also love windows and all their intrincated pseudo security stuff.
[15:40:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah..it took me about 4 hours playing on and off to bypass the security.
[15:40:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> tried running them on explorer on wine but something doesn't work right.
[15:40:33] <_ENHering_> I spent two years there, while having to deal with windows and, worse, far worse, labview.
[15:40:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> fun part is, new xerox copiers mostly run an embedded linux.
[15:41:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> I discovered this at my first xerox copier training.
[15:41:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> asked for the root password...was told I couldn't get it.
[15:41:17] <_ENHering_> Things evolve...
[15:41:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> I had it before the end of the first day of class...right from the copier harddrive itself.
[15:41:37] <_ENHering_> Can'tyou boot them single user?
[15:41:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> not really.
[15:41:54] <_ENHering_> ah, ok
[15:42:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's a very hacked up commercial kernel.
[15:42:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> on the second gen they made it easier.
[15:42:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> ext3 filesystem on an SD card
[15:42:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> I just edited the passwd file.
[15:42:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> put my own password in
[15:42:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> and voila!
[15:43:07] <_ENHering_> A long time ago I had to fit a linux system into a 16MB flash drive. I disassembled a fedora installation, removed all that was not necessary and kept enough to control 250 ISP clients
[15:43:43] <_ENHering_> Linux is amazing.
[15:44:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> fit
[15:44:12] <_ENHering_> We inserted traffic balancing code (WRR) into the kernel and integrated with SQL etc.
[15:44:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> to 16MB
[15:44:17] <_ENHering_> Yep.
[15:44:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> a long time ago I had linux that fit on a pair of 1.44MB floppies.
[15:44:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> slackware.
[15:44:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> no X
[15:44:42] <_ENHering_> This was in 2001
[15:44:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> just console
[15:44:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> but funcional.
[15:44:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> this was,,,1995, 1996
[15:44:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> something like that.
[15:45:02] <_ENHering_> definitely no X
[15:45:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> but it had a web browser!
[15:45:38] <_ENHering_> just console, kernel, ls, cp, mysql client, perl (minimal), etc.
[15:46:06] <_ENHering_> And many thousand lines of perl code
[15:46:42] <_ENHering_> At that time flash drives were called DOMs (disk on modules)
[15:47:54] <_ENHering_> In the end, it divided exactly many MB/s into n active users. WRR was very nice. Made by a german guy. I've never seen such a good load balancing after that.
[15:49:09] <_ENHering_> WRR for w... round robin.
[15:49:27] <_ENHering_> Enough on that.
[15:51:28] <malinus> Well I have linux that is a few MB. On my router
[15:52:11] <malinus> A buildroot linux build is usually less than 10MB, depending on what you are doing
[16:20:03] <_ENHering_> I still have the code and the tree.
[18:12:42] <_ENHering_> Can i ask a stupid question? I solder the smd sensors using a rework station and a no-clean flux. How should I clean the PCB after that? Alcohol? Water? That flux leaves some residues
[18:13:41] <Casper> try alcohol
[18:13:54] <Casper> and yes, noclean leave lots of residue
[18:14:17] <_ENHering_> is there a cleaner flux?
[18:14:27] <Casper> the noclean mean that the flux is inactive once you are done soldering. Some flux stay active and continue to eat away at your solder/copper
[18:14:37] <Casper> and no, all solder leave residue
[18:14:40] <_ENHering_> ah, ok
[18:14:49] <_ENHering_> thanks for that
[18:15:22] <_ENHering_> I'll try alcohol then. 70% maybe
[18:15:43] <Casper> might want to invest in 99.99% too
[18:15:54] <Casper> it's really nice to have around the house too
[18:16:10] <Casper> kid drew with a sharpie on the table? Use 99.99!
[18:16:33] <_ENHering_> probably i can find that only in chemical supply companies
[18:17:10] <_ENHering_> propanol pa?
[18:17:31] <Casper> iso
[18:17:54] <_ENHering_> isopropanol is highly toxic. more than acetone
[18:18:38] <Casper> http://www.kge.ca/DATA/PRODUITIMAGE/11076.jpg
[18:19:01] <_ENHering_> check the toxicity of it.
[18:19:25] <Casper> hmmm why?
[18:19:55] <Casper> if you are worried about iso, you better stay inside your house, with hepa filter and bionuclear filters
[18:20:08] <_ENHering_> exactly? don't know. check the chem something website
[18:20:23] <Casper> one of the most common alcohol used everywhere
[18:20:50] <Casper> you know that those ain't reliable right?
[18:20:51] <_ENHering_> there is a website where you can find toxic info about almost everything
[18:21:08] <_ENHering_> iso is worse than acetone
[18:21:14] <Casper> and acetone is safe
[18:21:25] <Casper> you know that they put acetone in some of your food?
[18:21:49] <Casper> and it is a byproduct that your own system make when it metabolise some nutriments?
[18:22:08] <Casper> To cause issue, you need to sniff abuse of it
[18:22:17] <_ENHering_> https://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search2
[18:22:42] <_ENHering_> search toxnet before using anything
[18:23:10] <_ENHering_> acetone is a byproduct of protein metabolism
[18:23:21] <_ENHering_> but if you drink acetone you die
[18:23:37] <Casper> depend in what quantity
[18:23:50] <_ENHering_> dont try any quantity
[18:24:22] <_ENHering_> https://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search2/f?./temp/~JV8cwC:3
[18:24:48] <_ENHering_> permalink:
http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search2/r?dbs+hsdb:@term+@DOCNO+116
[18:25:05] <Casper> LD50 acetone: 3g/kg... that's roughtly 350ml of acetone for an average adult
[18:25:17] <learath> that's... not that much
[18:25:26] <Casper> that's a cup and half
[18:25:44] <Casper> that's ALOT
[18:25:47] <learath> yeah, but ld50 isn't something I want to play with.
[18:26:01] <learath> (not that I'd worry about acetone particularly)
[18:26:07] <_ENHering_> check the toxnet for acetone
[18:26:23] <learath> _ENHering_: ?
[18:26:38] <_ENHering_> always check toxnet before using any stuff.
[18:26:50] <Casper> ld50 for iso: 3.6g/kg mouse, so even less than acetone
[18:26:54] <Casper> and
[18:27:09] <Casper> if you are scared, move to california
[18:27:24] <Casper> if not, stop using such bad information
[18:27:31] <learath> harsh :)
[18:27:34] <learath> but fair.
[18:27:57] <Casper> :D
[18:28:02] <learath> Casper: I'm still not going to drink acetone, and continue to be careful with it.
[18:28:30] <Casper> I'm actually more concerned about explosion and fire than acetone exposure
[18:28:31] <_ENHering_> Isopropyl and n-propyl alcohols are about twice as toxic as ethanol; the fatal dose by ingestion is 250 mL. ... The principal manifestation of acute isopropyl or n-propyl poison is CNS depression. Symptoms and signs: (From inhalation, ingestion, or skin absorption) ... persistent nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, hematemesis, refractory ... /CNS depression/, areflexia, depressed respirations, and oliguria followed by
[18:28:32] <_ENHering_> diuresis. Deep coma has resulted from sponging with isopropyl alcohol. Generalized tenderness, induration, and edema of muscles may occur. ... Prolonged contact with the skin can cause corrosion.
[18:28:32] <learath> Casper: though it does look like our systems process it pretty well
[18:29:03] <learath> tbh that's where a lot of the really nasty chemicals get you
[18:29:58] <Casper> I'm more concerned about car exaust than using iso or acetone inside
[18:30:33] <learath> Casper: I thought modern car exhaust was mostly boring?
[18:30:46] <learath> I mean, the monoxide will kill you if you let it
[18:31:08] <Casper> beside, unless you volountary drink it, exposure from the vapour itself.... your throat and lungs/eyes will burn/hurt way before you get a dangerous concentration in the air.
[18:31:22] <Casper> And if you get to that point, you are very negligean with the ventillation
[18:31:39] <Casper> and you are possibly close to the explosion point
[18:31:53] <learath> erm, probably well past to get 350ml into your system in any rational timeframe
[18:31:56] <learath> hm
[18:32:00] <learath> now there's an interesting one
[18:32:16] <learath> would it kill you first from asphixiation?
[18:32:26] <_ENHering_> Don't try to be more informed than toxnet. People here are reading you. You can deal with your own health, but you cannot educate children in bad habits.
[18:32:58] <learath> _ENHering_: based on the mistake of reading r/politics, reddit has taught me the next generation is terminally retarded :(
[18:33:01] <learath> on both sides.
[18:33:07] <Casper> toxnet may be a good source of information IT YOU KNOW HOW TO READ IT. Unfortunatelly, it is not mean to be understandable, and nobody in the channel is qualified to understand it
[18:33:09] <_ENHering_> Security first
[18:33:15] <Casper> you can NOT understand it proprelly
[18:33:21] <Casper> this is fact
[18:33:24] <_ENHering_> Wait...
[18:33:51] <_ENHering_> Have you read the case studies? Pretty clear they are
[18:33:59] * Casper wonders if there is some info about DHMO
[18:34:23] <Casper> http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html <== go read that
[18:34:30] <learath> lol
[18:34:33] <learath> I love dhmo
[18:34:44] <learath> and I love the fact that it got so many votes to ban it even more :)
[18:34:49] <Casper> yup
[18:35:08] <learath> and I think we should probably revoke the right to vote from everyone who voted to ban it.
[18:35:10] <Casper> and unfortunatelly, not enought people understand the real risk of DHMO
[18:35:13] <learath> or let them live in their ban.
[18:35:34] <Casper> like, breathing dhmo vapors...
[18:35:41] <_ENHering_> deny then
[18:35:52] <Casper> so lethal in suffisant quantity
[18:35:56] <learath> superheated DHMO is incredibly dangerous.
[18:36:03] <Casper> yup
[18:36:50] <_ENHering_> Nobody in toxnet is using complex names for simple things like water. You know what nausea and vomiting are
[18:37:25] <_ENHering_> Do as you wish. Just don't teach other people your own negligent habits
[18:37:25] <Casper> point is, that dhmo web site show exactly what I mean with your stupid toxnet
[18:37:42] <Casper> it scare the hell out of you with something that is a non issue
[18:37:47] <_ENHering_> toxnet is an international reference for toxicology
[18:38:01] <Casper> I doubt it
[18:38:10] <_ENHering_> with real cases reported
[18:38:17] <Casper> it do not even link the msds
[18:38:18] <_ENHering_> you are ignorant.
[18:38:41] <Casper> me ignorant? nope
[18:38:47] <_ENHering_> I'll go back to silence
[18:38:53] <Casper> do that
[18:39:08] <Casper> you know that iso is used in industry without any gas mask and there is zero issue?
[18:39:16] <Casper> same with acetone
[18:39:47] <Casper> it is NOT required by OSHA, nor basically all of them
[18:40:04] <Casper> unless some extreme case, but then it's obivious
[18:40:55] <Casper> also
[18:41:00] <Casper> learn to read
[18:41:10] <Casper> Human Toxicity Excerpts:
[18:41:18] <Casper> HUMAN EXPOSURE STUDIES/ DAILY ORAL INTAKE OF LOW DOSES (2.6 OR 6.4 MG/KG BODY WEIGHT) OF ISOPROPYL ALCOHOL BY GROUPS OF 8 MEN FOR 6 WEEKS HAD NO EFFECT ON BLOOD CELLS, SERUM OR URINE AND PRODUCED NO SUBJECTIVE SYMPTOMS.
[18:41:19] <Casper>
[18:41:44] <Casper> that'S for iso
[18:42:17] <Casper> that's 3/4cup per day for a 150lb human
[18:42:29] <Casper> and you still claim it is hightly toxic?
[18:43:54] <_ENHering_> 2.6 mg/kg is 200mg for a 100kg person. 200miligram
[18:44:27] <_ENHering_> 1/5 of a gram
[18:44:54] <_ENHering_> you indeed cannot read toxnet.
[18:45:17] <Casper> woops, conversion error...
[18:45:55] <_ENHering_> try killing yourself instead of teaching people to ignore health hazards.
[18:48:47] <Casper> I still stand on my point
[18:48:55] <Casper> you are not understanding the stuff
[18:49:03] <_ENHering_> no.
[18:49:24] <Casper> anyway
[18:49:30] <Casper> did you used leadfree solder?
[18:50:24] <Casper> and did you used a smoke extractor when you soldered? you know that if you smell the flux smoke then you get immediate cancer right?
[18:50:44] <Casper> and if you used leaded solder, then you are now infertile due to the lead content
[18:52:47] <_ENHering_> I should not, but I will answer that too.
[18:53:20] <Casper> same level of danger
[18:53:26] <Casper> so don't try to explain
[18:55:33] <_ENHering_> isopropanol is highly volatile. You can inhale large quantities of isopropanol in a few minutes, just by cleaning something with it. If you read toxnet you will see that there are reported cases of coma, and of severe dizziness related to cleaning things with it. If you are a very strong person that is unafected by anything ok, but you cannot suppose everybody is. That is why scientists loose the best part of their l
[18:55:33] <_ENHering_> ives studying thing and being repeatedly tested for their knowledge.
[18:56:39] <_ENHering_> You can kill yourself the way you want. Just do not try to take anybody with you
[18:56:47] <Casper> if you read between the lines, you will realise that it is HUGE quantity of product being misused without adequate ventillation, for an extended period of time
[18:57:14] <_ENHering_> And there are huge quantities of people unnecesarily exposed to hazardous chemicals.
[18:57:27] <Casper> and most likelly that if they had any ignition source in the room that it would have went kaboom
[18:57:28] <_ENHering_> Because of ignorance
[18:57:54] <_ENHering_> Ok, Casper. You are a genius. Keep shitting around like this.
[18:58:25] <_ENHering_> You know better than legions of scientists
[18:58:27] <Casper> and there is lots of people that are unnecesarily scared, california style, because of whatever reason, like you
[18:58:39] <Casper> really, go work for california health commity
[18:58:39] <_ENHering_> Sure
[18:58:44] <Casper> you will do well there
[20:04:15] <Vikinger> is it possible to configure the A/D in like 2 pins and have the rest digital in the same port
[20:04:18] <Vikinger> ?
[20:04:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> yes
[20:04:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> specially as the ADC can only attach to one pin at a time.
[20:05:30] <Casper> sure, however, beware that you may introduce extra noise
[20:05:49] <Vikinger> ow
[20:06:41] <Vikinger> if the ADC can only attach to pin at a time can i multiplex it and have several readings _
[20:06:44] <Vikinger> ?
[20:06:55] <Casper> there is an analog mux
[20:07:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> it just swaps through the pins with an analog multiplexer
[20:07:14] <Casper> you basically select which input you want, send a conversion command, read, repeat
[20:07:59] <Vikinger> ok cool
[20:08:02] <Vikinger> then im safe
[20:08:34] <Vikinger> im still drawing the schematic ill think about firmware later
[20:09:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> just remember, any digital signals toggling on other pins on that port may cause noise.
[20:09:34] <Vikinger> it will be just buttons, so it wont be much toggling
[20:12:16] <Vikinger> thank you guys
[20:14:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm betting you really need to read the datasheet before you finish that schematic.
[20:14:08] <_ENHering_> X-Plane is very nice, Lambda_Aurigae. But I have to run it with minimal detail in my computer.
[20:14:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> it does suck some serious power.
[20:18:27] <_ENHering_> Do you know somebody who uses those PC cabinets full of mineral oil?
[20:18:59] <_ENHering_> They seem to run very cold at high clock
[20:19:21] <Vikinger> should i name my switch BUTT 1
[20:19:24] <Vikinger> BUTT 2
[20:19:36] <Vikinger> i always struggle with this lol
[20:19:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> #1 and #2
[20:19:56] <Vikinger> doesn't sound very nice
[20:20:09] <Vikinger> press that BUTT
[20:20:30] <Vikinger> or BUT
[20:20:32] <_ENHering_> https://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php
[20:22:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> now that we have SSDs, it's time to do a liquid nitrogen bath PC.
[20:24:18] <_ENHering_> That would be expensive.
[20:24:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah, so?
[20:25:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> somewhat cheaper than liquid helium bath.
[20:26:00] <Tom_L> messy if you gotta change a board
[20:26:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> just drain it out and use it to make ice cubes...real quick.
[20:27:17] <Tom_L> the oil bath...
[20:27:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> oh.
[20:27:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> oil...bah
[20:27:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> I much prefer liquid nitrogen bath.
[20:28:08] <_ENHering_> Here in Brazil LHe is 75USD / l. LN2 around $10USD/l
[20:28:55] <_ENHering_> Both expand around 750x when warmed up
[20:29:11] <_ENHering_> Good bombs they are
[23:45:42] <Jartza> mornggh
