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[06:01:09] <ENHering> Good morning!
[06:29:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> wash your fingers with lye soap!
[06:29:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> using that dirty 4 letter G word with morning.
[06:29:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> you should be ashamed of yourself.
[06:32:51] <_ami_> Lambda_Aurigae: what happend?
[06:33:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> ENHering, said "G**d morning"
[06:33:53] <_ami_> haha! :)
[06:33:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> there are young innocent eyes watching this channel!
[06:50:38] <ENHering> You don't like mornings, Lambda_Aurigae?
[06:52:25] <ENHering> They are so good to sleep...
[06:53:03] <ENHering> Oh, I understand now. You *work* in the morning...
[06:53:12] <ENHering> Poor guy.
[06:56:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> morning means going to w*rk, yes.
[06:57:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> I love mornings but not such things associated with them. at w*rk I have to deal with humans in person....
[06:57:45] <ENHering> Forced dealing with humans is bad karma
[06:58:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have to go to peoples' offices and fix their copiers.
[06:58:18] <ENHering> Do as I do. Start working on your own space station.
[06:58:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> if it was only the copiers I would be fine.
[06:58:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> but dealing with the humans that interface with said copiers is a pain in the rump.
[06:58:58] <ENHering> You must have done some very bad stuff in your last lives
[06:59:40] <ENHering> You probably need prging
[06:59:46] <ENHering> purging.
[07:00:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> naaa...I'm just planning on being a US President in my next life!
[07:01:33] <ENHering> Take care. Great powers come with great responsabilities. You do s*it there and will fix printers for many lives after
[07:01:45] <cehteh> try to be dump as trump
[07:02:03] <cehteh> but hey govt by twitter looks simple
[07:02:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> naaa...I'm gonna follow Truman instead.
[07:03:48] <cehteh> while you may plan for another option, no one knows if the us still exist in your next life. it doesnt really look promising now
[07:04:20] <ENHering> good point
[07:05:14] <cehteh> in 20+ years we may have the Chinsese States of America :)
[07:06:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> or japanese...they hold a lot of our debt after all.
[07:07:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> and own most of california I bet.
[07:09:29] <cehteh> nah japan has a lot dept by themself
[07:09:50] <cehteh> china holds the biggiest dollar reserves of all countries
[07:10:00] <cehteh> more than the usa themself
[07:21:05] <ENHering> Maybe only Brazil will last... Bad scenario for the world.
[07:23:19] <ENHering> Maybe nothing will change. Try UFOLOU.com to learn about a different view of our condition here.
[07:24:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> I was in US Military Intelligence....I got all that crap in the 80s and 90s....
[07:24:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> I learned more about how our governments work,,,and don't work,,,than I ever want to know.
[07:25:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> most of what I learned was classified and my exit briefing said 25 years...a year ago, at 25 year mark, I was notified that it had been extended to 50 years.
[07:26:51] <ENHering> I can only imagine part of it.
[07:27:23] <ENHering> One probably never recovers from such an experience.
[07:28:12] <ENHering> Knowledge can be very heavy.
[07:28:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup.
[07:29:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> kinda like a job I had working in the telecom industry
[07:29:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> got out of that 10 years ago and to this day I'm still amazed every time I pick up a phone and actually get a dial tone.
[07:30:04] <ENHering> My father was there also. Telecom. Lots of work
[07:30:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> I was the IT guy for a company that wrote software for the telecom industry.
[07:30:37] <ENHering> Nice job.
[07:30:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> we wrote the core ground station software for sprint 3G in under a month.
[07:30:58] <ENHering> Tough
[07:31:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> company that had been writing it took over a year and backed out less than a month before scheduled launch.
[07:31:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> we stepped in with a beta version of some software we had been playing with and made it work.
[07:31:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> they had been given 10 million dollars to develop it and at the last minute decided they couldn't do it.
[07:31:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> we did it in under a month and charged them 1 dollar.
[07:32:03] <ENHering> :)
[07:32:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> then we charged 4 million a year for service fees with a 4 year contract.
[07:32:15] <ENHering> Good money
[07:32:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> not really.
[07:32:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> we didn't charge enough so they didn't take us seriously.
[07:32:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> were told that we should have charged at least double that.
[07:33:08] <ENHering> Pricing is an art.
[07:33:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> in the time we were in the sprint network we never had a severity 1 fault, had one severity 2 fault, and never had a customer service interrupting fault.
[07:33:28] <ENHering> Some say it is science
[07:33:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> no other software before or since can lay that claim.
[07:34:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> at least, not in the sprint world.
[07:34:45] <ENHering> Great work.
[07:34:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> we were so bleeding edge, however, that we scared the executives of all the other telecoms...even scared sprint once they found out what we really could do.
[07:35:07] <ENHering> The best products seem to be born in these conditions
[07:35:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> sprint let us go in and scan the local network in KC area.
[07:35:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> we discovered millions of dollars worth of gear in their network that was supposed to have been decomissioned and taken offline.
[07:35:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> and millions of dollars worth of active circuits that they had no record of.
[07:36:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> circuits with data flowing on them...that they should have been getting paid for that they didn't know even existed.
[07:36:27] <ENHering> are all big companies unaware of their size?
[07:36:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> pretty much.
[07:37:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> we did the same for verizon and they classified our results and wouldn't let us take them out of the building to analyze.
[07:37:43] <ENHering> people that love their work can work for free. They usually can't charge enough as they see no value in what they do.
[07:37:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> they took one look at the raw data and told us it was all company classified information and thanks very much but they didn't need our help.
[07:38:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> after that we couldn't sell the software to anyone...tried every major telecom in the country and several in europe...it was like we had been blacklisted.
[07:38:59] <ENHering> knowledge can be heavy...
[07:39:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> was a year after that when our sprint contract was up for renew and they dropped us.
[07:39:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> we found out later that they had reverse engineered our software and wrote their own version....but never could prove it.
[07:40:28] <ENHering> you did your part and learnt with it. This knoledge cannot be stolen.
[07:40:43] <ENHering> Only you have it.
[07:41:32] <ENHering> I suggest you read a book. The 48 laws of power.
[07:41:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> hehe.
[07:41:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> I read enough as it is.
[07:41:46] <ENHering> Helps to keep it.
[07:41:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> I know all about knowledge being power.
[07:42:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's how I keep my job.
[07:42:13] <ENHering> This is about political philosophy
[07:42:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> I know things nobody else in the company has the slightest clue about.
[07:42:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> politics=poly-meaning many, ticks-meaning small blood sucking parasites
[07:42:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> that's all I need to know about politics.
[07:42:47] <ENHering> They should tach it at school
[07:43:05] <ENHering> teach
[07:43:37] <ENHering> seriously. Try this one. Very useful.
[07:44:14] <ENHering> Another, from the same author: the 33 strategies of wr
[07:44:17] <ENHering> war
[07:45:33] <ENHering> But, back to UFOLOU.com, it is a nice view of our planet condition and about who we really are.
[07:46:01] <ENHering> Graduation into the cosmos is another nice book.
[07:46:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> humans are parasites on the planet and should be eradicated.
[07:46:22] <ENHering> Agree
[07:46:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> I read scifi/fantasy and tech manuals...screw political books.
[07:46:41] <ENHering> But if Lou Baldin is right, we won't
[07:47:29] <ENHering> He says this planet is a prison.
[07:48:10] <ENHering> And that there is a lot just out our atmosphere.
[07:48:23] <ENHering> And into it also.
[07:48:46] <ENHering> But this is classified stuff...
[07:50:24] <ENHering> What I reallly want to know now is why RN131G uses more than 1 amp when i switch it on after many hours switched off
[07:51:34] <ENHering> Makes no sense
[08:09:35] <ENHering> Does anybody here uses an ATMEL ICE to program AVRs?
[08:09:46] <ENHering> *use
[08:12:33] <malinus> MKII?
[08:13:22] <ENHering> No... The ATMEL ICE is a newer one. Small white box.
[08:16:54] <twnqx> MKIII then, probably
[08:17:07] <ENHering> Yep.
[08:17:20] <ENHering> Dressep in different clothing
[08:17:23] <ENHering> Dressed
[08:18:07] <ENHering> http://www.atmel.com/tools/atatmel-ice.aspx
[08:18:33] <malinus> I've only used the atmel MKII ICE
[08:18:40] <ENHering> The baud rate is not changing using avrdude. I'd like to learn how to change it. It is taking 40 s to write 10k.
[08:19:03] <ENHering> 10kbytes
[08:21:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> avrisp MKII...ICE is a different animal.
[08:24:27] <ENHering> I also have an USBtiny, but it stopped working. Weird.
[08:25:06] <ENHering> LEDs flash as if working, but it does not write anything anymore.
[08:26:06] <shangul> heh
[08:37:45] <Emil> ENHering: is it a new chip?
[08:38:00] <Emil> You need to disable the shitty divide by 8 fuse
[08:38:58] <ENHering> Not a new one, Emil. I believe I have disabled it. I'll check. Thanks!
[08:42:22] <ENHering> I'm using E9 as low fuse. CKDIV8 is disabled.
[08:44:40] <ENHering> It is a pity ATMEL Studio only works in Windows environments.
[08:50:03] <bss36504> ENHering: I use the ICE. It's pretty great
[08:50:30] <ENHering> bss36504: Do you use it with AVRdude?
[08:51:17] <bss36504> No, I use AS
[08:51:47] <ENHering> There must be a command line option to increase baud rate...
[08:52:05] <bss36504> I have literally no clue. I've never used avrdude
[08:53:13] <ENHering> I do everything by command like. It is hard to figure out the options, but faster as the script gets mature.
[08:54:01] <bss36504> To each their own.
[08:54:10] <ENHering> Yep
[09:04:27] <ENHering> I'd like to use AS, but there is no MAC version
[09:11:33] <bss36504> VM?
[09:12:25] <ENHering> old computer. Gets slow.
[09:13:59] <bss36504> Ah I understand. I used to run an WinXP VM on my 2010 MBP, it worked pretty well actually. But I think the new version of AS requires at least Win7
[09:14:16] <bss36504> and Win7 is much harder to run with, say, less than 4GB allocated to the VM
[09:24:53] <ENHering> I have a 2010 MBP also. But the best thing I can run in virtualbox is XP.
[09:25:22] <ENHering> The rest is so slow.
[09:26:31] <ENHering> Now I have such a good development environment using makefiles and Sublime Text that I do not want to go back to other heavier stuff
[09:29:09] <specing> bss36504: you need GNU Emacs
[09:29:32] <specing> and stop using that shitty studio
[09:29:49] <specing> and while you are at it, just migrate to cortex-m
[09:29:53] <ENHering> Try SublimeText. The best code editor I could find. Lots of resources.
[09:30:33] <ENHering> Cortex m is very nice. m4 is full of resources. When I grow up I'll play with them.
[09:30:48] <specing> "Sublime Text is a proprietary ..."
[09:30:59] <specing> the best!
[09:31:02] <ENHering> You can runit for free for a looong time
[09:31:10] <specing> We all love when our freedoms are taken away
[09:31:22] <specing> man I'd love if they'd figure out more freedoms to be taken away
[09:31:46] <ENHering> Don't ask.
[09:32:21] <ENHering> I believe it has no restrictions for running as freeware
[09:32:32] <specing> you are restricted in the head
[09:33:14] <ENHering> It has something I could not find anywhere else. Multiple selections.
[09:33:20] <twnqx> sigh... linux
[09:33:31] <twnqx> they won't ever be able to fix the usb stack i guess
[09:33:48] <ENHering> It finds all the ocurrences of the highlighted text and edits all of them at the same time. Very useful.
[09:34:19] <ENHering> aren't like 60% of the internet servers using linux?
[09:34:32] <twnqx> yeah, so?
[09:34:50] <ENHering> Seems so robust
[09:34:52] <twnqx> i am running linux everywhere, too
[09:35:11] <twnqx> i'm still pissed if i have to reboot a pc without being able to save my work
[09:35:23] <ENHering> everybody is
[09:35:34] <ENHering> but it does not happen often, does it?
[09:35:49] <ENHering> here it happens once a year
[09:36:09] <ENHering> if windows then once a day
[09:36:24] <twnqx> i have about daily issues with usb3
[09:36:40] <twnqx> every day a 50:50 chance if it will find the external hub or not
[09:36:46] <ENHering> Oh. I do not use it. Cannot say anything
[09:37:11] <twnqx> and now the full stack hangs
[09:37:15] <specing> usb3 is a mess (even more so than earlier standards)
[09:37:16] <twnqx> no mouse or keyboard
[09:37:35] <twnqx> (no, they aren't on an external hub, just the complete subsystem died)
[09:37:39] <specing> usb3 is in fact such a mess that all X86 platforms implement it with a separate microcontroller
[09:38:05] <ENHering> can't it be downgraded to 2.0?
[09:38:09] <specing> and every single arch that ships out of the factory has 1st revision of this firmware totaly broken
[09:38:48] <twnqx> usb 2 is pretty... slow
[09:39:23] <twnqx> come on, PC, compile faster...
[09:39:36] <twnqx> reboot
[09:39:42] <twnqx> err, wrong shell
[09:40:04] <ENHering> slow is slower than test reboot test?
[09:40:41] <twnqx> slow is "make -j9; make install; make modules_install"
[09:40:49] <twnqx> yey, no clean reboot either
[09:41:03] <ENHering> Can't imagine.
[09:41:12] <twnqx> full on hang
[09:42:34] <ENHering> I wrote a small protocol for SPI communication. So simple that I cannot understand it anymore.
[09:42:44] <ENHering> S*it
[09:42:51] <twnqx> lol
[09:43:28] <ENHering> It used to work...
[10:19:34] <ENHering> Nice article on oscilloscopes:
http://www.bigmessowires.com/2013/09/23/entry-level-oscilloscopes/
[10:35:55] <bss36504> specing: I'm not switching to emacs of any form. F that. I work on linux all day at work, and run windows at home where I play with mcus. As long as I stick to atmel, I will continue to use AS for development since it supports ARM and AVR.
[10:36:02] <bss36504> ENHering: I also use Sublime everywhere
[10:36:19] <bss36504> I purchased it since I liked it so much
[10:37:17] <bss36504> ENHering: I like how the cover photo for an "entry level scopes" article is multi-GHz scopes with eye diagrams on them
[10:41:00] <malinus> Lol I have some kind of undefined behaviour. It's probably because the program uses delays for initilization of the display. But whenever I try to refer to any object in an array the mcu crashes.
[10:45:10] <bss36504> What are you making malinus?
[10:45:18] <bss36504> Is this display an HD44780?
[11:16:44] <ENHering> bss36504: I decided to buy Sublime because of its quality too. Very nice software for a one person development.
[12:05:27] <carabia> I wonder how much pussy exactly, has stallman received for writing the greatest piece of software mankind has ever known: GNU Emacs.
[12:09:57] <cehteh> the answer is zero :)
[12:13:02] <carabia> well then, it only goes to show useless software people are
[12:15:37] <specing> cehteh: [citation needed]
[12:16:18] <specing> honestly with the cult of personality around RMS I wouldn't be surprised if he had/has several "high priesteses" around him
[12:16:33] <cehteh> specing:
https://stallman.org/extra/personal.html
[12:17:55] <specing> ah
[12:18:02] <specing> but it says former ad, so ...
[12:18:47] <cehteh> yeah you never know the truth
[12:20:30] <specing> cehteh:
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=intellectual
[12:21:44] <cehteh> :D
[12:23:26] <bss36504> Why is it that all these old school unix programmer types have the shittiest website formatting ever?
[12:23:49] <bss36504> Oh right, they are the same kinds of people who scoff at IDEs and use vi exclusively for all manner of text editing
[12:24:03] <specing> "shittiest website formatting"?
[12:24:28] <bss36504> black text on white backgrounds is pretty low on my list of "quality websites"
[12:24:38] <bss36504> Or rather, it's at one extreme
[12:24:57] <bss36504> the other would be gifs of dancing babies and red-on-green color schemes
[12:26:34] <specing> Do you know why holywood films are full of CGI and explosions?
[12:26:45] <specing> because they are compensating for lack of content
[12:27:05] <specing> "these old school unix programmer types" produce actual content, so do not need flashy websites
[12:27:49] <Chillum> it is neat seeing actual hacking tools used in Mr Robot
[12:27:53] <specing> also their readers are not ADHD kids like bss36504 who have 5 second attention span and have to be sufficiently animated into browsing
[12:28:41] <bss36504> Im not asking for flashiness, I'm asking for something that doesnt hurt my eyes by making 12pt text span the entire width of my 27" monitor, that evidently wasnt a consideration when they wrote the original website in HTML 20 years ago.
[12:29:49] <cehteh> because they made that website once in the 1990's
[12:30:00] <bss36504> Well exactly my point.
[12:30:22] <cehteh> back then my HTML knowledge was <pre> content </pre> :)
[12:30:23] <bss36504> You could set up a wordpress server in an hour and start posting articles that are visually pleasant to read.
[12:30:25] <specing> bss36504: on the other hand you can easily copy&paste his entire text into an editor of your choice and read it the way you like
[12:30:32] <cehteh> today its not much more
[12:30:43] <bss36504> specing: Sure but I dont care that much :P
[12:30:44] <specing> something you cannot do with websites for adhd people
[12:30:49] <cehteh> aaand it loads very fast, works with every browser
[12:30:50] <bss36504> I dont have adhd
[12:30:52] <rue_bed> starting to see more and more of the old school websites with actual informational content
[12:31:05] <specing> also it was not written in 1990, more like 2010
[12:31:06] <bss36504> I just value my time
[12:31:14] <specing> see GNU being 25 y o
[12:31:19] <rue_bed> http://ruemohr.org
[12:31:22] <rue_bed> ya know
[12:31:23] <bss36504> Yall realize Im just pushing your buttons here
[12:31:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> rue_bed, too much
[12:31:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> GRAPHICS!
[12:31:41] <rue_bed> :)
[12:31:52] <cehteh> until you click :)
[12:32:14] <bss36504> Seeing as how the core demographic of this IRC seems to be "old school linux types"
[12:32:20] <bss36504> I mean, were on an IRC channel FFS
[12:32:42] <rue_bed> what else would we be open chatting in?
[12:32:47] <cehteh> when did don knuth stopped using email? 1993? lemme check
[12:32:48] <rue_bed> twitter?
[12:32:55] <bss36504> rue_bed: "not_public_dont_open" << lol
[12:33:02] <chisight> if you don't full screen your browser, you won't get 27 inches of text. it is correct to use the space given by the user.
[12:33:10] <cehteh> http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~uno/email.html
[12:33:12] <cehteh> :)
[12:33:14] <specing> rue_bed: quality website, right there
[12:33:17] <rue_bed> hey, website securrity is of utmost importance
[12:33:44] <cehteh> 1990
[12:33:59] <rue_bed> lol, thats binary for 5 right?
[12:34:12] <rue_bed> your shifting the dir 5 to the left?
[12:35:26] <rue_bed> so, if not irc, what?
[12:35:35] <rue_bed> it would be something you would have to sign up for
[12:35:48] <rue_bed> content would be 40% infused by ads
[12:36:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> bah.
[12:36:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> only 40%?
[12:36:37] <learath> rue_bed: only 40%
[12:36:38] <learath> shit
[12:36:40] <learath> I'm slow
[12:36:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah.
[12:36:54] <rue_bed> facebook is about 40% isn't it?
[12:36:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> and I'm playing a game and watching Dr Who!
[12:36:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> dunno
[12:37:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> no facebook account
[12:37:02] <bss36504> We could do it in facebox messenger where the ads are based on what we ramble on about in here
[12:37:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> nor twitshit account
[12:37:09] <rue_bed> oh, I"m only thinking of the middle column where the content is supposed to be
[12:38:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> I had a facelessbook account for a day.
[12:38:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> my mother found me with it.
[12:38:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> I deleted it in a hurry.
[12:38:30] <rue_bed> :)
[12:38:57] <rue_bed> facebook is obsolete anyhow
[12:39:06] <rue_bed> its all about.... linkedin now
[12:39:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> bah.
[12:39:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> even worse
[12:39:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> I had a linkedin account 8 years ago.
[12:39:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> almost 9 years now.
[12:39:35] <rue_bed> you cant expect that, by that nature, it wont change every 4 years
[12:39:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> had it for almost 6 months
[12:39:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> deleted it.
[12:39:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> I STILL get spam from it.
[12:39:48] <bss36504> Linkedin isnt that bad, in the big scheme of things
[12:40:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> my work wants me to use linkedin
[12:40:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> I told them the day they require it, I quit.
[12:40:44] <rue_bed> if you kept the same email address for 20 years, you find something magic happens
[12:41:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> have had the same email address for 14 years now.
[12:41:12] <rue_bed> you end up on a list of 'its too old to be valid' and they dont spam the **** out of you anymore
[12:41:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> and a dozen others in and out to boot.
[12:41:54] <rue_bed> hah, I got it I got it
[12:42:02] <rue_bed> oh god
[12:42:14] <rue_bed> texting groups dont exist yet
[12:42:28] <rue_bed> it would be irc, but via texting
[12:42:45] <rue_bed> were just old school texters
[12:42:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> of course.
[12:42:57] <rue_bed> ha. ha!
[12:43:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> time to create a new texting app that does groups?
[12:43:28] <rue_bed> so, yea
[12:43:37] <rue_bed> $7M!
[12:43:47] <rue_bed> cut me in on some eh?
[12:44:13] <rue_bed> it requires a working bridge, one thats not been filtered for spamming
[12:44:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> would require me to actually write code on the android platform.
[12:44:32] <rue_bed> ? no
[12:44:52] <rue_bed> you just need to create some kinda target that pulls groups
[12:44:54] <rue_bed> ?
[12:45:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> and I would have to,,,,,TEXT
[12:45:14] * Lambda_Aurigae shudders.
[12:45:35] <rue_bed> have you watched people on the sidewalk for like a 5 min span?
[12:45:47] <rue_bed> 98% of people are typing on a phone
[12:45:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah.
[12:46:19] <rue_bed> your the strange one if your NOT holding a phone and either reading or typing on it
[12:46:20] <twnqx> i don't type
[12:46:23] <twnqx> i play pokemon go.
[12:46:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> I avoid texting myself...so much that I uninstalled the texting message app.
[12:46:30] <rue_bed> yea, or a game
[12:47:05] <rue_bed> its almost like realizing everyone around you has a babelfish in their ear
[12:47:13] <rue_bed> 8-|
[12:47:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have one of those! kindasorta.
[12:47:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> wear a bluetooth earpiece all day.
[12:48:06] <rue_bed> apparently you know your old when you know what headphones are
[12:48:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> I recently saw an audio live translator software...think it was google.
[12:48:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> know?
[12:48:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have them!
[12:48:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> make-the-world-go-away
[12:48:26] <rue_bed> yea, I hate earbuds
[12:48:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> over the ear with a CORD!
[12:48:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> I find earbuds uncomfortable.
[12:48:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> took me quit a while to find a bluetooth earpiece that wasn't uncomfortable.
[12:49:31] <rue_bed> I got two bluetooth headphones, I want to make a walkie-talking client for them on PC
[12:49:51] <rue_bed> I dont know if I need to have 2 adapters to handle the traffic
[12:50:29] <rue_bed> I presume bluetooth has about 8 rf channels they can shuffle between?
[12:50:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> hmmm.
[12:50:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've had multiple devices connected at once.
[12:50:46] <rue_bed> it should be easy, rx<->tx
[12:50:54] <rue_bed> x2
[12:50:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> not multiple of the same kind though.
[12:51:14] <rue_bed> well, audio bandwidth too
[12:51:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've currently got bluetooth speakers and mouse connected to my 15 inch lenovo flex3
[12:51:56] <rue_bed> yea, mouse is really low traffic tho
[12:52:22] <rue_bed> hmm, a group texting app
[12:52:23] <bss36504> There are bluetooth multi-point devices that can support playback from multiple audio sources
[12:52:33] <rue_bed> so,there would be topic channels
[12:52:34] <bss36504> my helmet-headset for my motorcycle has that feature
[12:52:57] <bss36504> I can connect my phone for music and my gps for voice prompts to the headset at the same time
[12:53:05] <rue_bed> what if, secretly, its a irc front end that just uses a custom server and tracks people by phone number
[12:53:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> rue_bed, you have a sick twisted mind...I like it!
[12:53:39] <rue_bed> instead of nicknames
[12:53:57] <rue_bed> well, us smart folk leverage existing, working technology
[12:54:19] <rue_bed> to all HELL i DO NOT know why openscad didn't use povray syntax
[12:54:34] <rue_bed> like seriously, w t f
[13:03:24] <ENHering> I have just learnt you do not like black and white websites
[13:04:28] <ENHering> Mine is black and white and I'm happy with that.
[13:04:51] <ENHering> I'm totally incompetent to apply colours to it
[13:04:55] <ENHering> colors
[13:05:23] <rue_bed> ?
[13:05:38] <rue_bed> I dont, or people in general
[13:06:18] <rue_bed> dont think I ever had a problem with b&w websites
[13:06:32] <ENHering> I tried but it got so bad when colored...
[13:06:42] <Casper> is there an ESP channel?
[13:06:50] <ENHering> Maybe that is what those old school emacs kind peopla think too.
[13:07:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> Casper, extra sensory perception is on irc.magicstar.net
[13:08:14] <Casper> not that kind of esp
[13:09:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> have you tried umm I dunno #esp8266 maybe?
[13:09:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> only 192 people in there.
[13:09:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> there is always /list command too.
[13:09:53] <Casper> hmm woops? :D
[13:09:56] <Casper> thanks
[13:10:54] <Casper> but I'm not sure my project can actually work... need to check the mechanical constains...
[13:28:56] <chisight> Casper: #esp32 and #esp8266.
[13:30:26] <Casper> I'm in the second
[13:30:41] <Casper> will have to seriously rethink of my stuff..
[13:31:01] <Casper> whatever microcontroller I use, I'm finding some bigger issue than I first tought
[13:31:39] <carabia> I think black and white is too clear for rue_bed
[13:31:55] <carabia> as a matter of fact, he would prefer every possible color in between, at the same time
[13:33:37] <Jartza> oh noe
[13:33:44] <Jartza> just received EOL warning for attiny5
[13:34:06] <rue_bed> how old can that chip even be?
[13:34:07] <carabia> oh noes, cause that chip was just so practical
[13:34:22] <Jartza> it is
[13:34:25] <rue_bed> carabia, you know your a troll right?
[13:34:41] <Jartza> very practical VGA adapter chip
[13:34:42] <carabia> rue_bed: i'm not aware of this, and that chip's useless in more than one sense
[13:34:54] <carabia> a very ghetto VGA adapter chip, sure.
[13:35:18] <Jartza> it's also in use in at least 2 products released in 2016
[13:35:19] <rue_bed> carabia, you ever met flyback?
[13:35:21] <ENHering> :)
[13:35:30] <carabia> Jartza: wowzers.
[13:35:37] <rue_bed> what was the other guys name...
[13:35:41] <carabia> flyback?
[13:35:51] <Jartza> or well... let's say, in two products I've worked with.
[13:35:56] <Jartza> no, I didn't select that chip.
[13:36:02] <rue_bed> yea, he's banned
[13:36:04] <carabia> those are probably the only devices that chip's in use
[13:36:19] <Jartza> probably not
[13:36:52] <Jartza> the other product is from Kone Elevators, the other from Suunto
[13:36:56] <rue_bed> I have a hard time finding use for a tin13, as 5 io
[13:36:58] <rue_bed> ;)
[13:37:00] <carabia> the only thing more useless than the attiny5 is my proposal for atmel's next line of mcus which come with a few bits of memory coupled with no interfacing capabilities at all
[13:37:14] <rue_bed> I know kone
[13:37:18] <carabia> this coupled with a $2 price tag
[13:37:21] <carabia> Kone's quite big
[13:37:24] <rue_bed> yea
[13:38:04] <Jartza> both were my customers
[13:38:08] <rue_bed> carabia, trolls only make derogitory statements about everything and never build anything or provide anything positive to the channel, but they think they do
[13:38:37] <Jartza> the only reason I ever played with attiny5 is actually pretty simple
[13:38:42] <ENHering> trolls are bad...
[13:38:49] <Jartza> I had some leftover attiny5s from Suunto project :)
[13:39:03] <carabia> ^ QED
[13:39:09] <rue_bed> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=flyback
[13:39:22] <rue_bed> this is how the world will remember you if your a troll
[13:39:50] <rue_bed> havn't heard of QED in a long time
[13:40:03] <Jartza> still. for that use, the MCU was pretty much adequate enough
[13:40:16] <carabia> however people are less prone to remember anyone who cannot even understand the english grammar
[13:40:42] <carabia> rue_bed: it's latin
[13:41:05] * DKordic ROFL
[13:41:25] <chisight> Casper: chisight is me.
[13:41:37] <carabia> woe is chisight
[13:42:00] <rue_bed> I just cantrecall that other trolls name, he said he could never build anything because no manufacturing that existed had tight enough tolerances
[13:42:13] <Casper> chisight: noticed
[13:42:16] <rue_bed> Not... something
[13:42:34] <rue_bed> Tom_L, you remember?
[13:42:43] <carabia> Jartza: but i believe we're going over this for the nth time, you used the attiny5 'cause it was a fun project, and you wanted to go smaller
[13:43:10] <rue_bed> ok, I need to get out of bed
[13:43:21] <rue_bed> finish my head cold
[13:43:24] <carabia> this does not make it a generally practical device
[13:43:35] <chisight> oh, nevermind. i thought i was here under another nick. :-/
[13:43:43] <Jartza> carabia: sure. but I bet I've never had gotten attiny5 if it wasn't for real customer products and projects.
[13:43:50] <Jartza> still it was fun.
[13:44:26] <carabia> Jartza: sure. there's always niche applications, and people who are readily pointing them out in defense, i do get this
[13:45:29] <Jartza> I do get why atmel/microchip wants to kill that chip.
[13:45:35] <Jartza> but I still won't call it useless.
[13:45:38] <rue_bed> carabia, trollism gets worse with time, it never gets better
[13:45:41] <carabia> but seems like atmel could've been better off by cutting these kinds of niche products in order to be more focused on chips that are generally more practical
[13:45:46] <Jartza> because I've seen it being useful in real products :)
[13:45:58] <carabia> Jartza: yes, but the margins are small.
[13:46:02] <rue_bed> cool hypertiny chip
[13:46:13] <rue_bed> is there any other sot2-3 mcu?
[13:46:33] <Jartza> I also do understand that if you make smaller portfolio, it's more easy to manage it and you can even probably lower the price
[13:46:38] <rue_bed> thats sot2-3 right?
[13:46:42] <carabia> it's sot23-5
[13:46:47] <Jartza> AND size-wise, WLCSP is the thing anyway if you want to go small
[13:46:52] <rue_bed> ah, but isn't it 6 pins?
[13:47:06] <carabia> does it say six somewhere?
[13:47:22] <carabia> well is it -6 then
[13:47:27] <carabia> one or the other. useless in any case
[13:47:28] <Jartza> attiny5 is either sot23-6 or UDFN
[13:47:32] <rue_bed> I cant understand why you would use that package and NOT put the 6th pin in
[13:47:35] <carabia> yeah, 23-6 then
[13:47:43] <Jartza> and actually it seems, the EOL is only for SOT23-6
[13:47:46] <Jartza> the UDFN will still stay
[13:48:02] <rue_bed> thats bga?
[13:48:12] <rue_bed> N is no leads...
[13:48:17] <carabia> useless, goodbye atmel, i hope your designers get laid off soon enough
[13:48:29] <carabia> rue_bed: no
[13:48:47] <carabia> the pads are on the edge, not the same as bga
[13:48:58] <rue_bed> I should really start working more with the stm32 before avrs completely dry up
[13:49:05] <carabia> now you're talking
[13:49:08] <rue_bed> ah,
[13:49:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> choo
[13:49:32] <rue_bed> I got a bunch, in 5? 6? years, everything will be arm
[13:49:52] <Jartza> carabia: it's only useless to you, because YOU don't know what to do with it ;)
[13:49:56] <rue_bed> might as well put my soul up for auction now
[13:50:04] <carabia> Jartza: oooh touché
[13:50:18] <rue_bed> I had a hell of a time working out what to do with a tiny13
[13:50:23] <rue_bed> I have a bunch of things now
[13:50:31] <carabia> useless.
[13:50:43] <Jartza> I bet it's hard to think what to do with all that flash and all those pins
[13:50:51] <rue_bed> carabia, do you even HAVE a job right now?
[13:51:00] <carabia> yeah i HAVE
[13:51:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> rue_bed, they don't bring much in the way of money. I've tried. Ebay even pulled my listing. "One soul. Never used. Will include free set of morals also never used."
[13:51:14] <carabia> Jartza: a
[13:51:17] <carabia> shit --
[13:51:17] <rue_bed> heh
[13:52:29] <carabia> Jartza: for example the vga driver, sure it's cool to have a tranny sized package driving vga, but it's by no means full featured and your demo shows it's just /fun/
[13:53:02] <rue_bed> compters were for fun once
[13:53:10] <rue_bed> and then they took over
[13:53:23] <rue_bed> 3d printers are for fun, and they are gonna take over too
[13:53:24] <carabia> but if we're talking size constraint i'm not sure if that's applicable, as the connector itself is way bigger than the chip, and many other chips with support circuitry
[13:53:58] <rue_bed> I think that board is awesome, esp cause the regulator is the same size
[13:54:32] <rue_bed> and all io is going serial, so chips with small pin counts are the way
[13:54:59] <carabia> what's the chip? 14MHz?
[13:55:10] <carabia> 14MHz multiple serial with processing, no dma?k
[13:55:37] <rue_bed> I'd be surprised if cores dont go serial too, nobody seem to even know what latency is
[13:55:47] <rue_bed> they just want speed
[13:55:49] <carabia> good thing you do
[13:56:15] <rue_bed> trillion terraflops and it takes 4 seconds to do anything
[13:56:54] <carabia> parallelity leads to bus contention anyway, omg
[13:57:16] <rue_bed> ok, I have to get out of bed, then eat, or wash up... kill cold
[13:58:03] <rue_bed> dos 6.22 is amazing on a new processor, mostly because ALL of it fits in the L1 cache
[13:58:19] <Jartza> carabia: sure, as VGA attiny5 is only fun, not useful.
[13:58:26] <carabia> rue_bed: woah, speed.
[13:58:37] <rue_bed> its a gateway to usefull
[13:58:38] <Jartza> attiny85 vga is useful
[13:58:41] <carabia> are you sure your low-freq parallel brain can keep up with it?
[13:59:25] <rue_bed> I think multitasking takes a lot of the gumption out of modern processors
[13:59:57] <rue_bed> when the cache is allowed to do its thing, there is lots of speed
[14:00:10] <rue_bed> ... I'm still in bed
[14:00:28] <rue_bed> can I go back to sleep?
[14:00:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> sure
[14:00:53] <carabia> modern x86s do better and better with their branch preditors, i think.
[14:00:59] <carabia> predictor, even
[14:01:12] <carabia> but i don'
[14:01:26] <carabia> don't really know, and i'm not that interested. Not my thing
[14:01:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm still in my jammies
[14:01:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> slept much of the day away.
[14:01:46] <rue_house> you can predict a multitasking interrupt
[14:02:15] <carabia> ...
[14:02:41] <rue_house> having a core for each thread helps
[14:02:59] <rue_house> has intel hit a 100 core die yet?
[14:03:24] <rue_house> intel likes their high-speed bus-bound processors
[14:03:40] <carabia> no idea. GPUs are parallelled much more
[14:04:01] <rue_house> hmm vector processor
[14:04:37] <rue_house> prolly need that for porting my brain onto
[14:04:43] <rue_house> need to learn more
[14:04:49] <carabia> your brain cannot be ported
[14:04:53] <rue_house> :P
[14:05:00] <carabia> your brain is barely functional as it is
[14:05:11] <rue_house> the technology can already support it, we just dont know how to do it yet
[14:05:32] <carabia> isn't it time to get the wheels turning for today, rue_house?
[14:05:33] <rue_house> just like 3d printers could have been done in the 80's
[14:05:56] <rue_house> 8051 could already do NC
[14:05:58] <carabia> herd the cattle and fix up the trucks. No time to spend on contemplating cpu architectures
[14:06:29] <rue_house> I wonder how a person gets into vector processing on gpu's
[14:06:50] <rue_house> I wonder if my video card is even fancy enough
[14:06:54] <carabia> oh he's gonna go off a monologue
[14:07:00] <carabia> alright, have a good one
[14:07:09] <rue_house> ATI RV280
[14:10:55] <carabia> rue_house: the attiny5 is more than enough to port your brain to
[14:22:38] <Jartza> so it is useful, after all
[14:38:16] <rue_house> it looks like the RV280 might be 4 core, before it was expressed like that
[14:38:48] <rue_house> whats a new video chip?
[14:40:10] <rue_house> hmm I usually upgrade every 5 years, I dont know how long its been...
[14:40:19] <rue_house> (teh whole computer)
[14:40:57] <rue_house> NVS295 is a 8 core
[15:00:13] <Tom_L> i see our resident troll is here
[15:09:26] <rue_house> after flyback, there was another guy, wasn't around long, had 'not' in his nick?
[15:09:36] <rue_house> do you remember the nick?
[15:09:39] <rue_house> it was long
[15:09:55] <rue_house> he was working on a bike or a car or something
[15:10:59] <Jartza> "notworkingonabikeoracarorsomething"
[15:11:02] <Jartza> that's really a long nick :)
[15:12:07] <Tom_L> yeah i know who you mean
[15:12:33] <Tom_L> he was a reall ass
[15:12:40] <rue_house> I think I have to go to my logs...
[15:12:49] <Tom_L> dan something?
[15:12:58] <rue_house> dafredrickson
[15:13:02] <rue_house> danfredrickson
[15:13:03] <Tom_L> from denmark or such
[15:13:10] <rue_house> yea, that was it
[15:13:30] <rue_house> he trolled robotics didn't he?
[15:13:41] <rue_house> or was that electronics ?
[15:13:53] <Tom_L> yeah robotics
[15:15:18] <rue_house> I dont think even flyback was as bad as carabia when we first met him
[15:15:48] <Tom_L> flyback could be intelligent when he wanted to be
[15:15:54] <Tom_L> not sure about the other
[15:15:56] <rue_house> he had his moments
[15:16:29] <rue_house> carabia, waaaaait a min, you do drugs!? like the brain damaging type?
[15:16:45] <Tom_L> how should he know if it's fried
[15:16:47] <rue_house> we saw that really screw up flyback
[15:16:57] <Tom_L> and pepsi
[15:17:01] <rue_house> oh pepsi
[15:17:11] <rue_house> right pepsi was a whiz in the start
[15:17:18] <rue_house> man, did he go downhill,
[15:17:34] <Tom_L> i think his dad thing got to him
[15:18:09] <Tom_L> he got a couple jobs after that though
[15:18:19] <Tom_L> one making medical equipment
[15:18:54] <rue_house> was it about 2000 we got #avr?
[15:19:05] <Tom_L> i don't remember
[15:19:06] <rue_house> remember it existed but was completely empty?
[15:19:25] <rue_house> we asked the owner for it and he gave it to us, we populated it with people from electronics
[15:19:32] <rue_house> and robotics
[15:20:27] <Tom_L> i don't remember who owns which anymore either
[15:20:39] <rue_house> you own one of them an I the other
[15:20:45] <Tom_L> but which
[15:20:52] <Tom_L> doesn't matter
[15:20:56] * rue_house shrugs
[15:21:05] <Tom_L> i've got seattlerobotics too
[15:21:13] <Tom_L> and maybe ##avr
[15:21:23] <rue_house> seatlerobotics!?
[15:21:41] <Tom_L> yes
[15:22:06] <Tom_L> they were on chatjunkies before that
[15:22:15] <Tom_L> i set it up and told them to switch
[15:39:16] <carabia> was that pepsi guy the one who was making some ultra-suspicious diy medical lasers?
[15:42:16] <carabia> i remember one guy like that, a few years back
[15:43:31] <kc2uez> carabia does a good job being tha channel troll, don't be mean to him
[15:44:09] <Tom_L> no that wasn't him
[15:47:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> rue_house, several of us started in here about 2001 or so as I recall.
[15:47:22] <Jartza> LOL
[15:47:27] <Jartza> my colleague is playing with Rust
[15:47:40] <Jartza> he has stm32 nucleo board... with octapentaveega shield on top of it
[15:47:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've gone through a few nicks over the years.
[15:47:43] <rue_house> Lambda_Aurigae, were you part of the start? did you change your nick or your just been quiet?
[15:47:48] <rue_house> ugh
[15:47:49] <Jartza> he's making some kind of raytracer with it :D
[15:47:54] <rue_house> who were you then?
[15:47:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> remember Arcturus ?
[15:48:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> or Farldarm
[15:48:02] <rue_house> :/ no
[15:48:20] <Tom_L> me either
[15:48:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> someone who got you started making those little programmer boards that fit inside the DB25 shell.
[15:48:50] <rue_house> rifraf did a lot of work on that too
[15:48:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup.
[15:49:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> you, rifraf, and me.
[15:49:04] <rue_house> did you make up the schematic with the 74125 instead of the 244?
[15:49:15] <rue_house> wow, my appologies I dont recall
[15:49:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> well...not make up exactly but I found it for you.
[15:49:31] <rue_house> I thought we came up with that
[15:49:33] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/rs232_2.jpg
[15:49:38] <Tom_L> prompted me to do those
[15:49:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> https://sites.google.com/site/emrirc/isp-adapter-circuit.gif
[15:49:53] <rue_house> Tom_L, :) whats that for
[15:50:13] <rue_house> I have one of rifs
[15:50:21] <Tom_L> that's just rs232
[15:50:38] <rue_house> Tom_L, I know, I was making a joke about db9 being obsolete
[15:50:54] <Tom_L> pfft, you of all should talk about obsolete
[15:50:55] <rue_house> almost everything of mine is usb->ttl now
[15:51:11] <rue_house> :)
[15:51:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> but, yeah, I was one of those early ones.
[15:51:57] <Tom_L> i was on chatjunkies prior to coming here
[15:52:08] <Tom_L> 90's
[15:52:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> I don't remember Tom_L from the early days.
[15:52:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> then I vanished for a while..
[15:52:45] <rue_house> I really like a) not haveing to work out of pin 2 or 3 is rx or tx cause db9 vs db25 and wtf did they reverse them for
[15:52:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> hehe.
[15:53:17] <rue_house> b) not having to work out if the problem is a handshaking line thats suppose to be tied to 'god I dont even know if that one is in or out'
[15:53:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have a lot of usb interfaced stuff these days but still keep computers with serial and parallel ports handy.
[15:53:44] <rue_house> c) not having to guess which port I'm on cause all 4 exist and I'm plugged into one of these damned things
[15:54:07] <rue_house> -- and thats why I like usb serial --
[15:54:18] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/avr/dragon/dragon1.jpg
[15:54:22] <Tom_L> there was one of rif's
[15:54:46] <rue_house> yea
[15:54:56] <rue_house> I think mine is a bit older
[15:55:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> the first gen that rue_house made, he sent me a couple, are through hole 74244 chip based as I recall.
[15:55:10] <Tom_L> yup
[15:55:14] <rue_house> yup
[15:55:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> https://sites.google.com/site/emrirc/avrisp-buffered.gif
[15:55:35] <rue_house> http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/avr/avrprog.jpg
[15:55:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> https://sites.google.com/site/emrirc/avr-ispdongle.pdf based off that one as I recall.
[15:55:45] <rue_house> crapcam (c) image
[15:56:11] <rue_house> ha with the backwards miso and mosi on the 6 pin
[15:56:19] <rue_house> yea, god did that cause fun
[15:56:24] <Tom_L> heh
[15:56:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> hehe.
[15:56:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup.
[15:56:27] <Tom_L> the pdf was wrong
[15:56:37] <rue_house> 'FORGET IT!! I'M STICKING WITH 10 PIN!'
[15:56:42] <rue_house> YEA
[15:56:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> worked for those of us who had nothing else to go on back then.
[15:56:45] <rue_house> yea...
[15:56:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> made a lot of gear with that pinout.
[15:57:15] <rue_house> http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/avr/457_avrprog.jpg
[15:57:21] <rue_house> the wrong 6 pin?
[15:57:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah.
[15:57:32] <rue_house> iirc I did it a few times and gave up
[15:57:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> there's a smaller board.
[15:57:47] <rue_house> http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/avr/442_avrprog.jpg
[15:57:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> chopped on the edges to fit inside the db25 hood
[15:57:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> THAT's the one!
[15:57:59] <rue_house> that looks like the fancy ones
[15:58:08] <rue_house> iirc I ran out of hoods
[15:58:18] <rue_house> I had some chromed plastic ones too
[15:58:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have one of those about 3 feet from me here.
[15:58:42] <rue_house> :)
[15:58:56] <rue_house> what about an PATA programmer? :)
[15:59:14] <rue_house> 'try to take away my bus will you?'
[15:59:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> I built one, once, for the fun of it, on solderless breadboard.
[16:00:09] <rue_house> did you know that avrdude can leverage the arduino bootloader?
[16:00:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup.
[16:00:44] <rue_house> as historic as it is, most of that avr dir could be cleaned out
[16:00:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> can't do fuses with a bootloader, but avrdude can use it.
[16:01:20] <rue_house> http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/avr/lcd3.jpg I had great fun going thru the box of lcd's and seeing what I could get working
[16:01:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> think we both did much the same back then.
[16:02:39] <rue_house> http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/avr/317.jpg
[16:02:56] <rue_house> http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/avr/319.jpg looks like a 3 layer baord...
[16:03:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> if 2 layers are jumper wires.
[16:03:39] <rue_house> ;)
[16:05:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> as I recall you also made a 2x3 pin to 5 pin adapter for programming on a breadboard.
[16:06:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> or was it 2x3 to 1x6?
[16:06:29] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/new_kits/USBTinyMkII_full_kit_desc.jpg
[16:07:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> I could have sworn that rue_house made one before that.
[16:07:33] <Tom_L> i think he may have
[16:07:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> I made them with perfboard.
[16:08:16] <Tom_L> i've still got quite a few of those blanks
[16:09:14] <rue_house> http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/avr/programmer/bb_adapt.jpg
[16:09:31] <rue_house> I have a lot of them in the shop I use
[16:09:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> dats the one I remember.
[16:09:43] <rue_house> hah, one right infront of me
[16:10:24] <rue_house> bb with a tiny13/pcf8574/max548 and 24LC512
[16:10:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> I might have one here somewhere.
[16:10:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> love my pcf8574 chips too!
[16:10:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> kinda pricy but nifty little buggers.
[16:11:19] <rue_house> toms programmer is what I use for 6 pin, I have one of toms 32u2 boards that is my main 10 pin programmer, and a usbasp thats around for an extra
[16:11:30] <rue_house> pricy? like 48 for 20 from china
[16:11:35] <rue_house> er $8 for 20
[16:11:50] <rue_house> or was it 4, crazy cheap, dont use em tho
[16:11:59] <rue_house> I use '595
[16:12:23] <rue_house> I was playing with fleurys i2c library
[16:12:39] <rue_house> cause its asm, and bit-banged it works on a tiny13 just fine
[16:12:47] <Tom_L> i used that on a dallas clock chip iirc
[16:13:15] <rue_house> yup, I didn't know about it, so when I made my clock I had fun using a parallel dallas chip
[16:13:16] <Tom_L> err, maybe mine wasn't fleury's
[16:13:49] <rue_house> tooo many projects
[16:13:54] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/avr/Dallas%20RTC%20Code/
[16:13:54] <rue_house> I still have to make this sound player
[16:14:21] <Tom_L> that was somebody else's
[16:14:38] <rue_house> yea, fleurys is bit banged
[16:14:43] <rue_house> so any port, any hardware
[16:16:39] <rue_house> Tom_L, the speed controller works :)
[16:17:06] <Tom_L> nice
[16:17:12] <Tom_L> for the spindle?
[17:54:08] <carabia> kc2uez: thank you for all of your contributions for this channel.
[17:54:46] <carabia> kc2uez: and thank you for your expert opinion, now how about you just be, you know, quiet again?
[17:56:05] <carabia> retards such as yourself rise to the occasion when someone mentions trolls, however you are nowhere to be seen when people come around here with valid questions seeking for help
[17:59:39] <Jartza> touchy
[18:00:15] <carabia> Jartza: touchy or not, that's how things stand
[18:02:47] <carabia> of course i'm offtopicing a lot, tongue-in-cheek, but at least i'm trying to be witty about it. things i'm saying about avrs do have a real argument to them, channel name being what it is, often times attempts of refutation are encountered...
[18:04:53] <carabia> however that's not everything i do here. when i see valid issues and can help, i do. as opposed to individuals such as him, who seems to never contribute at all, his observations are either a) biased towards the general consensus as of late, b) too limited, or my favorite c) he truly is a retard
[18:05:29] <carabia> now that we've gotten that out of the way, we can keep on idling.
[18:05:42] <learath> carabia: hey, we can't discriminate against retards! It's not their fault!
[18:05:59] <learath> meh.
[18:06:37] <carabia> i wasn't discriminating. i'm making a case here that perhaps his observations are lacking due to his inadequate mental capabilities which may or may not be caused by a retardation
[18:07:08] <carabia> "disability" is for mice, not men. I like "retardation" better.
[18:08:01] <ENHering> I was away and lost the event. Was it enlightening?
[18:08:15] <carabia> no, now pardon me, back to idling
[18:08:17] <learath> Nope.
[18:08:29] <ENHering> Oh.
[18:38:51] <ENHering> carabia, I was thinking. If the capillary is resistive, you can use it as a heater.
[18:47:16] <carabia> hmmm
[18:47:54] <carabia> i'm not enough into physics to do it all in my head or to really simulate it, but
[18:48:19] <carabia> you'd have aux power on the rocket on the pad, to heat the water up to something like 200 degC or so
[18:48:44] <ENHering> CuNi tubes are mechanically hard, bad heat conductors and electrically bad conductors too.
[18:48:50] <carabia> possibly even more, if we're talking pressures in the range of tens of bars
[18:48:55] <carabia> yes?
[18:49:16] <ENHering> Maybe. Or a lipo discharged over the length of the tube.
[18:49:28] <carabia> you'd defo want aux power on the pad
[18:49:43] <carabia> as you'd have possibly up to 1500 ml or water
[18:51:56] <ENHering> One thing worth trying is to grab a small diameter (<3mm) CuNi Tube (from refrigerator companies), fill with water and close one side. Then apply a high current along it and discover what is the current necessary to produce a water jet.
[18:52:29] <carabia> sure, but the thing here is that the window in which you'd want to vaporize it to produce the additional pressure is kind of small
[18:52:50] <carabia> if that's the idea here, if i got it right. (often times i get things wrong!=
[18:52:53] <ENHering> Then make the curernt higher. Kind of lipo thing.
[18:53:03] <carabia> so you'd probably want a really high cell count in series
[18:53:58] <ENHering> You are right. No good. The current would have to be too high, or the tubes VERY resistive.
[18:54:23] <carabia> hmmm
[18:54:31] <carabia> i wonder how applicable would like a coil back emf be
[18:54:55] <ENHering> Probably applicable
[18:55:16] <ENHering> The thicker the tube wall, the higher the current
[18:55:17] <carabia> yeaah. would just probably need a too big of a coil
[18:55:30] <carabia> unless you would place the coil outside and eject it right after you give the jolt
[18:55:36] <ENHering> But the coil can be in the launch pad.
[18:55:47] <carabia> well yeah, you could have long wires
[18:55:59] <carabia> hmmh...
[18:56:01] <ENHering> Around the rocket
[18:56:10] <carabia> hmmmmmm...
[18:56:15] <carabia> now there's an idea, haha
[18:56:19] <ENHering> Yep.
[18:56:37] <carabia> you'd want the coil up in the air over the launch tube
[18:57:41] <ENHering> Up in the air with the capillary tubes in the axis, centered on them.
[18:57:53] <carabia> that'd be funky
[18:58:46] <ENHering> The coil would stay on the ground. It would just warm the capillaries as much as possible before take off.
[18:59:24] <carabia> well i mean the initial warming is not really an issue. you can provide aux power
[18:59:31] <ENHering> Then, high specifi heat materials would be welcome as capillary walls.
[18:59:46] <ENHering> specific*
[19:00:15] <ENHering> The higher the specific heat, the more heat would be accumulated and transfered to water inside the tubes.
[19:00:23] <carabia> of course
[19:00:34] <ENHering> Interesting.
[19:01:23] <carabia> some people tried a similar concept, but with foam
[19:01:52] <ENHering> This can be very interesting... You may even eject water vapor instead of liquid water. At a much higher speed.
[19:01:52] <carabia> for a high-pressure rocket though the drawback is the same as with this concept, that you can't produce enough foam in that short window
[19:02:59] <carabia> I think the best way to go is kerosene + LOx
[19:03:07] <ENHering> We would only be adding more pressure to a water rocket. It would still be pressurized by gas. But instead of letting the inner pressure fall to a fraction before ejecting all the water, we could keep it high, or even increase it a bit.
[19:03:38] <carabia> ENHering: yeah, that's the idea, but the problem is the window is possibly less than 500 ms
[19:03:58] <carabia> i have never tested it, but in all likelihood it's even less than that
[19:04:32] <ENHering> That video you showed yesterday seems to give a clue. The noise of the water jet can be heard during the video.
[19:04:46] <carabia> yeah that can. mind you that
[19:04:50] <carabia> that's quite a big rocket
[19:05:01] <carabia> from what i read it was close to 6l of volume
[19:05:37] <ENHering> Can you put sodium inside the tank?
[19:05:51] <ENHering> Sodium and water love each other.
[19:06:00] <carabia> for density?
[19:06:19] <ENHering> It is an explosive mix.
[19:06:20] <carabia> ig wait
[19:06:20] <carabia> no
[19:06:21] <carabia> yes
[19:06:30] <carabia> hey, it's late. ha
[19:06:43] <ENHering> Yep.
[19:06:45] <carabia> well i mean, i don't see why couldn't you
[19:07:26] <carabia> it's cause we have a totally different name for sodium.
[19:07:41] <ENHering> natrium?
[19:07:43] <carabia> yes
[19:08:09] <ENHering> Those chemistry classes were indeed useful
[19:08:31] <carabia> mmm
[19:09:30] <carabia> perhaps you could jury rig a trigger after the launch tube's cleared, and the sodium would rest under the water and the trigger exposes it to the jet
[19:09:36] <ENHering> I read somewhere that if you put an incandescent bulb inside salt water and keep a high electric field between the bulb filament and the water, natrium migrates through the glass, inside the bulb.
[19:10:30] <ENHering> Natrium really migrates through glass, easily at around 300C.
[19:10:33] <carabia> if the water's heated to a very high temp, 200 degC or so, the reaction should be rpetty good
[19:10:37] <ENHering> I never tested this.
[19:10:42] <carabia> or even 300, sure
[19:11:34] <carabia> though it would be a very complicated design
[19:12:01] <ENHering> This is just to collect sodium and use later.
[19:12:13] <ENHering> So you do not have to buy it.
[19:12:22] <carabia> that's a pretty nifty way of doing it, hah
[19:12:58] <ENHering> Finally i discovered that the problem is not with the SPI bus. I used an arduino to read the SPI output of my modules.
[19:14:20] <carabia> so the arduino was to blame? it usually is
[19:14:48] <ENHering> You can collect a lot of sodium using this design. And then use the light bulbs with sodium inside as bombs, by throwing them in water.
[19:15:20] <carabia> haha
[19:15:39] <ENHering> I do not know where the problem is. But now I have something that works to follow until I find the problem.
[19:16:51] <ENHering> It is a pity I'm far from a physics lab now. Those places are wonderful playgrounds, full of fun stuff to try.
[19:17:40] <carabia> I imagine
[19:20:18] <ENHering> Lifter tests in vaccumm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QuHgzrPuGk
[19:33:04] <rue_shop3> did it work in a vacuum?
[19:34:04] <ENHering> It moved. Force was a few orders of magnitude smaller, but pressure was 9 orders of magnitude smaller. I can say it worked.
[19:35:08] <ENHering> By switching the power supply on and off in the same frequency as the torsion pendulum in a few second we could see the pendulum oscilating.
[19:35:19] <ENHering> *seconds
[20:13:22] <ENHering> Debugging AVR code is an art...
[20:27:55] <rue_shop3> did you write it all at once and then expect it to work?
[20:28:13] <rue_shop3> or did you make it in components and test each one as you went along?
[20:28:28] <ENHering> Nope. I usually write and test.
[20:28:34] <rue_shop3> bad idea
[20:28:49] <ENHering> Each component at a time.
[20:28:59] <rue_shop3> you should break it down really well, write each peice and test it
[20:29:06] <rue_shop3> ah
[20:29:09] <rue_shop3> k...
[20:29:16] <ENHering> It has been broken in classes.
[20:29:27] <rue_shop3> so whats the program?
[20:29:39] <rue_shop3> reverse breaking down a program is a choar
[20:29:41] <ENHering> The problem is that I have modified some thing since the last hardware version.
[20:29:59] <rue_shop3> so, take all the code apart
[20:30:06] <ENHering> I included a new sensor in the sensor modules
[20:30:07] <rue_shop3> basic tests first
[20:30:28] <ENHering> And included a bus with slots to plug the modules.
[20:30:39] <ENHering> Something stopped working
[20:31:00] <ENHering> Now I'm doing what you suggested. Commenting all the code and uncommenting part by part
[20:31:15] <ENHering> But I needed something working to start from there.
[20:32:18] <ENHering> I had to use an arduino as a bridge between SPI and uart, to see what the modules were sending and receiving. And a LED with many blink patterns to see when the module freezes.
[20:32:32] <rue_shop3> what was the first test program when the whole project was started
[20:32:46] <rue_shop3> prettymuch, what order was the code written in
[20:33:11] <rue_shop3> I suggest building a suite of apps that are the test and gradual build up of the whole thing
[20:34:34] <ENHering> I'm writing code for an AVR. I have the bridge code, that works, and some classes that are not hanging the system. Now I'm uncommenting part by part. The communication between modules is clear now, but the accelerometer is not responding as expected.
[20:35:18] <ENHering> I also have to deal with the possibility of a bad manual soldering of the sensor, like one terminal that did not connect. I'm doing all the SMD soldering by hand, using a rework station.
[20:35:38] <ENHering> Lots of possible error sources.
[20:36:12] <rue_shop3> so whats the procedure to eliminate everything else and know if the accel is working right?
[20:36:24] <rue_shop3> testaccel.c
[20:36:30] <ENHering> Accel code has three parts
[20:36:48] <ENHering> configuration, where the device gets configured
[20:36:49] <rue_shop3> which is the least dependent part
[20:36:55] <rue_shop3> k
[20:36:55] <ENHering> This is not hanging,
[20:37:26] <rue_shop3> and can you test the config is getting to it?
[20:37:32] <rue_shop3> its sticking?
[20:37:41] <ENHering> Then the actual data reading, and last is the data saving in an array for statistical analysis.
[20:37:52] <ENHering> The config works.
[20:38:16] <ENHering> Data reading plus statistics is hanging. I'm ttrying to find in which line.
[20:38:37] <ENHering> But I have to comment, compile, write to the AVR, test and restart.
[20:38:49] <rue_shop3> pair it down to just data reading
[20:38:51] <ENHering> Each cycle takes about seven minutes.
[20:38:57] <ENHering> Many lines to test.
[20:39:11] <rue_shop3> it takes 7 mins to read the accel?
[20:39:32] <rue_shop3> I hope its not in a feedback loop :)
[20:39:57] <ENHering> No. It takes around this time between uncomenting, checking code, compiling, uploading, testing and trying again.
[20:40:09] <ENHering> Accel is read is few ms.
[20:40:55] <rue_shop3> you should split it into multiple projects
[20:41:11] <rue_shop3> so next time there is a problem yo can just start at the first test-app and walk your way thru
[20:41:12] <ENHering> It is split into multiple, very simple classes.
[20:41:25] <rue_shop3> ouch oop on an 8 bit avr?
[20:41:30] <ENHering> Yep.
[20:41:39] <rue_shop3> I do NOT suggest that...
[20:41:45] <ENHering> It works well.
[20:41:47] <rue_shop3> not memory efficient enough
[20:42:04] <rue_shop3> till yo uspend 12 hours chasing a stack overflow
[20:42:05] <ENHering> Not a very big difference in the end..
[20:42:18] <ENHering> I'm good at stack overflows.
[20:42:23] <rue_shop3> mhm
[20:42:41] <ENHering> Tey can be detected when the bug makes no sense.
[20:43:01] <ENHering> Usually the bug makes sense, and can be situated in an area of the code.
[20:43:13] <ENHering> When it starts moving around is a bad sign.
[20:44:24] <ENHering> OOP is very nice. Much better than any other option. Code gets organized and less complex.
[20:44:42] <ENHering> You can download the code from the project repo.
[20:44:46] <ENHering> Open source.
[20:44:51] <ENHering> And see by yourself.
[20:45:02] <rue_shop3> oops is not good for microcontrollers
[20:45:07] <rue_shop3> :)
[20:45:07] <ENHering> https://hackaday.io/project/11724-yauvc-yet-another-unmanned-vehicle-controller
[20:45:59] <ENHering> Not bad also. You must keep track of the thing. Estimate well the sizes of the objects and make sure they fit confortably in the space youo have
[20:46:50] <ENHering> The repo is here. Code is uder firmware.
[20:51:56] <rue_shop3> reminds me of an apple II bus
[20:54:25] <ENHering> Yep. Those headers sucks. I hope to find better connectors for it.
[20:57:38] <ENHering> But see, with modules, anybode can build their own modules for their own purposes.
[20:58:01] <ENHering> And with modular code, it is easy to integrate something already tested into your solution.
[20:58:58] <rue_shop3> the motor is burning hot, but the motor driver is cold as can be, thats cool
[20:59:36] <ENHering> Where?
[21:03:15] <ENHering> sorry, rue_shop3. I thought you were writing about the repo code.
[21:05:09] <ENHering> Late here. Going to bed. Bye!
[21:09:22] <rue_house> I'm building a cnc machine
[21:09:29] <rue_house> its working on its first cut
[21:09:40] <rue_house> of which its alrady broken a bit
[21:10:03] <rue_house> which was a bit I dont care about much cause I expected as much
[21:13:57] <rue_house> 0.9mm what a silly size
[21:14:32] <rue_house> thnk I have to bump the pwm up to 144Hz if I can
[21:14:42] <rue_house> dont think it likes 72
[21:17:27] <rue_house> damn the dividers go from 64 to 8
[21:18:13] <rue_house> 600Hz
[21:22:36] <rue_house> no its not, oh this is why the math is all out
[21:28:31] <rue_shop3> rue_house, U = S * ( 0.1 * (73/334))
[21:30:39] <rue_house> ok thats really, U = S * (0.1 * (293/667))
[21:30:53] <rue_house> for S = 32768
[21:31:39] <rue_house> 1439
[21:33:14] <rue_house> so the old level was about 45500
[21:33:17] <rue_house> huh
[21:44:29] <rue_house> just dosn't add up
[21:45:11] <rue_house> I should put this on my scope
[21:45:48] <rue_house> but it does point out the pwm is at 300Hz, not 73
[22:28:22] <rue_shop3> 3 hours and the cnc is still going fine
[22:42:26] <carabia> R.I.P cnc
[23:14:13] <rue_shop3> 3.5 hours still going
[23:14:33] <rue_shop3> although, not sure, but the Y axis seems to have offset
[23:20:27] <rue_shop3> I think I need to set the max step rates for the axie
