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[05:03:45] <Gerritjan> Hello im trying to Test a serial connection and now i have that i can send and receive dat but i cant figure out why i cant get out of the loop with a \n this is the code im now using:
http://pastebin.com/2ALQGsG2
[05:12:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> I don't see where you are trying to break out of a loop with \n
[05:12:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> only with !
[05:13:00] <Gerritjan> yes treu but i can set it to \n but it remains in the loop then but when i do it now with a ! and the end of the line it works but i dont want to use a !
[05:13:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> only thing being done with \n is to send a \r instead.
[05:13:25] <Gerritjan> so i need to set it to \r?
[05:13:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> that's not what I said.
[05:13:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> now I understand a bit better as you have explained more.
[05:14:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> how are you sending the \n to the device?
[05:14:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> from what program on what OS?
[05:14:14] <Gerritjan> debian
[05:14:31] <Gerritjan> and codeblocks with Makefile
[05:15:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> the makefile is sending data over the serial port?
[05:15:33] <Gerritjan> yes
[05:15:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> and are you sure it is sending the \n?
[05:16:13] <Gerritjan> and after "Know you dont like aruino" i start arduino for a serial monitor to send a line of text
[05:17:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> I would put a monitor on the serial line and see what is being sent both ways myself, just to see.
[05:18:50] <Gerritjan> what prog can i use for that ?
[05:19:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> but if ! works and \n does not then I would suspect the program sending the data to the chip.
[05:19:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> no clue.
[05:19:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have made my own.
[05:20:02] <Gerritjan> yes its sending and im getting responce on my monitor but normaly if you press enter you wel send a \n if im right
[05:20:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> an avr with dual uarts....one to comm back to the computer via usb-serial adapter and the other just using the RX line that I can tap to the serial line I'm wondering about...it just echos what it sees on that back to the compute.
[05:20:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> no.
[05:20:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> pressing enter does not necessarily send a \n
[05:20:30] <Gerritjan> ow oke
[05:21:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> that entirely depends on the configuration of the serial terminal you are using.
[05:21:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> they often will send either a \n or \r\n but can be configured to just send \r
[05:21:29] <Gerritjan> ahhh oke did not know that
[05:21:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> read.
[05:21:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> read read read
[05:21:46] <Gerritjan> blush
[05:21:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> lots and lots to read.
[05:22:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> manuals, man pages, tutorials....constant reading...
[05:22:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> :}
[05:22:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> I spend 2 to 3 hours a day reading such things.
[05:22:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> anyhow, off to swim a mile.
[05:22:29] <Gerritjan> wauw oke
[05:22:50] <Gerritjan> but your now imba with this stuff :D
[05:25:56] <Gerritjan> oke i got it needed to set the monitor with \n
[05:36:12] <Emil> Lambda_Aurigae: yes it does
[05:36:19] <Emil> \n is always seny
[05:36:34] <Emil> sent*
[05:36:51] <Emil> Unless obviously set to only send the other
[05:36:56] <Emil> but by default none do that
[05:38:01] <Gerritjan> Emil: not standard with arduino serial monitor you have to select the option
[05:38:03] <Emil> also Gerritjan
[05:38:10] <Gerritjan> you can also send with cr
[05:38:15] <Emil> do not ever use those shitty streans
[05:38:21] <Emil> streams
[05:38:26] <Emil> they are literally cancer
[05:38:34] <Gerritjan> hmm oke :S
[05:38:46] <Emil> Like I said, unless configured otherwise
[05:38:50] <Emil> but none do that by default
[05:39:46] <Gerritjan> treu but is standing like that, and i did also guessed that the \n will be send alway with that serial monitor
[05:40:43] <Emil> Your pasted code doesnt check for \n
[05:41:42] <Emil> Also dont do what you are doing in putcha
[05:41:44] <Emil> r
[05:41:46] <Gerritjan> well did try to but no responce from the code and i did wanted to check it but no result
[05:42:42] <Gerritjan> why not?\
[05:43:31] <Emil> It is not efficient nor is it good practice
[05:44:26] <Emil> Also you should decouple puchar from the handling of \n and \r
[05:46:31] <Gerritjan> Emil: but is that not 2 chars?
[05:46:45] <Gerritjan> \n\r i mean
[05:46:48] <Emil> Yes, but you should not have putchar do more than one thing
[05:46:55] <Emil> Also
[05:47:35] <Gerritjan> but put char os not used in my code
[05:47:46] <Gerritjan> i only use getchar
[05:48:44] <Emil> You have it defined
[05:48:49] <Emil> Im just giving you pointers
[05:48:50] <Emil> also
[05:49:01] <Gerritjan> oke
[05:49:42] <Emil> One should "always" use interrupt driven serial. It is a lot more efficient.
[05:50:18] <theBear> except when one can't afford to be interrupted <grin>
[05:50:39] <Gerritjan> Emil: ill can explain what im trying to do: i want to use the serial u control 17 servo`s and thats it so ony thing im gone send is 1:89 so servo 1 and turn 89 degree
[05:50:48] <Emil> theBear: like I said, "always"
[05:50:56] <Gerritjan> so i think i realy nee the interrupt for that
[05:51:17] <Gerritjan> dont know for sure
[05:51:55] <Emil> Gerritjan: you should have a frame symbol and then restricted symbolspacw
[05:52:33] <Emil> Gerritjan: did m2560 have 17 pwm outputs?
[05:52:36] <Emil> That's nice
[05:54:08] <Gerritjan> 15 a quick count
[05:54:31] <Emil> Hmm
[05:55:13] <Emil> Have you considered using a smaller uc with a pwm chip
[05:55:17] <Gerritjan> oke i can lose 2 servo`s thats no problem
[05:55:30] <Gerritjan> like?
[05:55:32] <Emil> Because implementing those last two is definirely doable but it takes some coding
[05:56:14] <Emil> Gerritjan: btw what are you actually doing?
[05:56:53] <Gerritjan> Emil: what do you mean?
[05:56:53] <Emil> Gerritjan: like this
https://www.adafruit.com/product/1429
[05:57:08] <Emil> (obviously you do it yourself instead of buying feom ada)
[05:57:16] <skz81> <Gerritjan> \n\r i mean >> \r\n even !
[05:57:17] <skz81> https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carriage_Return_Line_Feed
[05:57:20] <Emil> Gerritjan: you are trying to control 17 servos
[05:57:23] <Emil> what for
[05:58:35] <Gerritjan> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1EaW8NFXXXXbTXXXXq6xXFXXXd/1set-17DOF-Biped-font-b-Robot-b-font-Educational-font-b-Robot-b-font-Kit-font.jpg
[05:59:46] <Gerritjan> that is what im trying to do
[05:59:49] <Emil> Gerritjan: anycase, I'd prpbably do something like >NDDD\n as a protocol if you want to use ascii
[06:00:51] <Emil> If it is mission critical I'd include a checksum in hex formay
[06:01:09] <Emil> >NDDDSS\n
[06:01:34] <Emil> And if it all needs to happen simultaniously I'd also include a latch
[06:01:45] <Emil> So that you can send new values and then a latch command
[06:02:48] <Gerritjan> oke
[06:03:39] <Emil> If your thing is dedicated to controlling just those servos and nothing wlsw
[06:03:49] <Emil> I might even bitbang the whole thing
[06:04:20] <Emil> You can have cycle accurate bitbang quite wasily
[06:04:49] <Emil> Calculate the values of 3 port registers and then latch them all right after each other
[06:05:15] <Emil> It is a simple techinique to hsve a lot of pwm outputs quite cheaply
[06:05:30] <Gerritjan> true
[06:06:07] <Emil> It works even better if you just need to have some duty cycle without caring about the waveform
[06:06:49] <Gerritjan> oke thats a lot of information :D
[06:07:15] <Emil> Heh
[06:07:21] <Emil> Feature creep is real
[06:07:28] <Gerritjan> I just started with avr :S
[06:07:32] <Emil> stick to the easiest mvp solution for now
[06:10:14] <Gerritjan> Emil: i think im gone do first is the Serial part becuase thats inportant for now because the RPI is sending the information what servo and what degree it must turn and send back when he is done
[06:11:20] <Gerritjan> best sould be that i can control more servo`s @ 1 time but that later on
[06:11:49] <Gerritjan> right?
[06:23:33] <Emil> It depends on what you do
[06:23:41] <Emil> But in theory obviosly yes
[06:24:21] <Emil> But if you for example value quick execution and the order then handling them sequentially might be important
[06:24:41] <Gerritjan> oke i did download now a new pdf from avrfreaks.net about USART maybee that work :d
[07:26:08] <Gerritjan> Emil: i have done it now with a interupt :
http://pastebin.com/3q22z2B5
[07:28:33] <Gerritjan> Emil: Can i create a clas lioke usart.c and put the ISR also in there or must it be in the main.c?
[07:54:14] <skz81> Gerritjan, IIRC, yes you can. main.c is no special file, you can name it whatever_you_want.c if you're in mood
[07:55:10] <skz81> the linker puts the *.o alltogether to produce the binary. What symbols are declared in each object linked matters at that time
[07:55:55] <Gerritjan> skz81: and 1 more thing if im right the code that i shared is that with a char send or a char array ? like does it send 1 char or the whole line i send?
[07:58:35] <Gerritjan> because i like to have somthing like when i send a line like this 1:130 because i need the whole like before i can do somthing
[08:00:06] <skz81> Gerritjan, sorry i'am at work, no time to read you're code entirely, furthermore it's mostly register/hardware initialisation.... And I don't understand most of your question... " i like to have somthing like when", ok then.
[08:01:58] <skz81> try to be more clear and specific, i'll try to take a bit of my time to answer. Remember i did NOT read the whole exchange with other people in the chan, did NOT read all bits of code you posted etc
[08:04:40] <Gerritjan> oke i have a code in ISR for the USART and i send straight away the text back to the serial monitor but what i like to know is when it comes into the ISR when i send will it receive char by char and sendback char by char?
[08:19:12] <skz81> sorry i still don't understand... Very unclear what are the subjects "I" and "IT" in your sentence and even seems to change from time to time !
[08:19:27] <skz81> But, what I can say is : you use a char to read then write UDR0 with is an 8bit register which is a char.
[08:19:29] <skz81> Then the CPU exit the ISR. An later on, whenwhen futher data available from RX line, the CPU will run again the ISR.
[08:19:46] <skz81> So the data is proccessed char by char.
[08:20:19] <Gerritjan> oke thx
[09:32:03] <rue_house> Gerritjan, the isr triggers when the last bit of the incomming is recieved, and, within a bit, thats when it'll start sending
[09:33:55] <rue_house> so it would delay the datastream by one byte
[09:35:59] <rue_house> I wonder if you could do a UDR0 = UDR0 | 0;
[09:36:10] <rue_house> technically that reads and writes it
[09:36:32] <rue_house> gcc might optimize it out
[09:36:34] <Gerritjan> well normaly the data will not be send back but this was a test
[09:36:44] <rue_house> yup
[09:37:19] <Gerritjan> im trying the send with the usart to control a servo and then send a part back and i think im gone use the ISR to control the servo to with a class
[09:37:42] <rue_house> how many servos?
[09:37:45] <Gerritjan> so when the servo is done the usart will send a ok back when it is done
[09:38:03] <rue_house> how do you know the servo is done?
[09:38:06] <Gerritjan> normaly 17 but the board can handle 15 so first 15 with out a controller
[09:38:14] <Gerritjan> time :D
[09:38:27] <rue_house> what chip?
[09:38:33] <Gerritjan> atmega2560
[09:38:39] <rue_house> hmm
[09:38:52] <rue_house> good luck on the timing
[09:39:10] <Gerritjan> how so
[09:39:27] <rue_house> crossed interrupts and pulse latency
[09:39:52] <rue_house> you would be surprised how little a delay can cause a servo to twitch
[09:40:10] <Gerritjan> hmm oke euhm and with a secon ISR?
[09:40:16] <Gerritjan> second*
[09:41:02] <rue_house> you see, if an isr triggers and delays your servo pulse isr, it'll cause the servo to twitch
[09:41:22] <Gerritjan> oke damn
[09:41:33] <rue_house> this means, for good timing, you can only have one isr on the chip
[09:42:12] <Gerritjan> i did read software 5? int0,1,2,3,4,5
[09:43:05] <rue_house> yes, if you stack the priorities right you might get away with 2 interrupts
[09:44:00] <Gerritjan> rue_house: so i cant make a robot raise his arm and bend his elbow?
[09:44:09] <Gerritjan> @ the same time
[09:44:30] <rue_house> you can get away with 10 servos, more than that, and because of the update rate you need two timers
[09:44:39] <rue_house> you can poll the serial
[09:45:47] <Gerritjan> how can i do that?
[09:46:19] <Gerritjan> because the isr(USART0_RX_vect) is already running
[09:46:24] <rue_house> the serial dosn't have to be interrupt driven
[09:46:40] <rue_house> you have LOTS of time to deal with serial
[09:47:30] <rue_house> would you like to play with the code I wrote for a mega328 that runs 8 servos?
[09:47:42] <Gerritjan> oke cool
[09:48:01] <Gerritjan> rue_house: im just started with avr
[09:48:16] <Gerritjan> so im not realy good with it i did use arduino before
[09:48:32] <rue_house> np
[09:48:58] <Gerritjan> rue_house: you know what i want to do?
[09:49:08] <rue_house> control a billion servos
[09:49:14] <Gerritjan> what the meaning is for the serial and to turn the servos
[09:49:59] <Gerritjan> well i habe A RPi that calculates the distance of the room and pinpoint the location in the room and when i say or type go to that corner the robot walk to that corner
[09:50:49] <Gerritjan> so the rpi sends wich servo has to run and stops the serial send when it is there
[09:51:13] <Gerritjan> thats the way i want it to do
[09:52:49] <rue_house> http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/robots/arm9/hobbydriver-v3.tgz
[09:53:24] <Gerritjan> ill take a look @ your code :D maybee it will help alot
[09:53:29] <rue_house> it does the best possable timing for the hardware
[09:53:40] <rue_house> it could be expanded to 10 channels tho
[09:54:10] <rue_house> I have a 2 byte, bit-packed packet
[09:54:18] <Gerritjan> oke
[09:54:50] <rue_house> with built in sync, you can split the serial line to 4 of them to control 32 servos
[09:55:28] <Gerritjan> oke ill will take a look @ it :D i hope im getting the cleu how it works
[09:55:45] <rue_house> two timers, one of them starts a servo pulse, the other does the pulse time
[09:55:59] <rue_house> different resolutions because the times are of different magnitudes
[09:56:59] <Gerritjan> yes now i have @home a FS5103b and im getting MG966R servo`s
[09:58:08] <rue_house> if you used two 4017, you could control 20 servos with one chip
[09:58:12] <Gerritjan> rue_house: your code is runnign from servo 1 start servo2 start am i right
[09:58:38] <rue_house> it ripples the pulses to them
[09:58:46] <Gerritjan> ah oke this is not straight on the atmega
[09:59:27] <rue_house> you dont want to start the pulse to all your servos at the same time or you will have large currents on the supply at once
[09:59:37] <rue_house> its for a mega328
[09:59:56] <rue_house> because the mega328 boards are $1.50
[10:00:09] <rue_house> arduino pro mini
[10:00:16] <specing> china!
[10:00:19] <rue_house> yes
[10:00:28] <rue_house> things are made in china
[10:00:31] <Gerritjan> yes
[10:00:31] <rue_house> just about all things
[10:00:38] <specing> 5*(board + chip) cheaper than chip itself @ west
[10:00:42] <Gerritjan> i did buy the robot there
[10:01:31] <Gerritjan> but where do you have the us for the turning the servo
[10:01:36] <Gerritjan> ms i mean
[10:02:40] <rue_house> ISR( TIMER1_COMPA_vect ) {
[10:02:48] <Gerritjan> i see the ORC0A and how do you calculate the degree are you dooing that from the usart?
[10:03:00] <rue_house> you send the code a number from 0 to 12000
[10:03:08] <rue_house> that scales from 0.5ms to 2ms
[10:03:45] <rue_house> its high resolution
[10:03:50] <Gerritjan> 0 to 12000 are the servo`s
[10:04:21] <rue_house> no, thats the timing pulse
[10:04:32] <Gerritjan> oke
[10:04:48] <rue_house> oh , maybe its 31000
[10:04:50] <rue_house> been a while
[10:04:54] <rue_house> I have to got o work, bye!
[10:05:19] <Gerritjan> bye
[13:05:19] <rue_house> I'm way too ill towork today
[13:05:26] <rue_house> driving was a challange
[13:40:38] <carabia> rue_house: any doctor minus the charlatans would probably deem you unfit to work by default
[13:50:08] <_ENHering_> Hi.
[13:50:52] <carabia> Hi.
[13:52:02] <_ENHering_> If you have time, can you please visit
https://hackaday.io/project/11724-yauvc-yet-another-unmanned-vehicle-controller and tell me what you think about?
[13:53:48] <carabia> i see link text
[13:54:09] <carabia> i see more fancy names for quadcopters and more useless projects
[13:54:39] <carabia> though as much as i'd like to help you i can't bring myself to click it... can't... eaauuaarghhh
[13:55:08] <carabia> ...aaruauauuughghhrhgh still can't do it
[13:55:25] <_ENHering_> no problem, carabia. Don't worry.
[13:55:48] <_ENHering_> No quadcopters also. Just a modular thing.
[13:56:29] <_ENHering_> It may not even be that useless.
[13:56:35] <carabia> something along those lines anyway
[13:56:45] <bss36504> _ENHering_: Dont mind carabia, he gets a little ornery sometimes :P
[13:57:02] <_ENHering_> I don't mind, bss36504.
[13:57:51] <bss36504> I actually looked for a minute (I am at work, after all). But it looks pretty cool. Modules are compact, and they don't follow an arduino form factor so that's an automatic +1 from me.
[13:58:14] <_ENHering_> No arduino. All rewritten from scratch...
[13:58:23] <_ENHering_> All command line.
[13:58:28] <carabia> Common logic states, when the title encapsulates "yet another...", the usefulness of said product is questionable at best
[13:58:48] <_ENHering_> I'm not good at names. I'd like to find a cool one.
[13:59:06] <_ENHering_> Maybe Genaro. Italian names seem to stick.
[13:59:15] <carabia> don't. your current title captures the idea amazingly well, for more information refer to my earlier line
[13:59:18] <_ENHering_> But I don't like it too.
[14:00:10] <bss36504> carabia: how about YAUVC.js?
[14:00:25] <carabia> if it's not those pesky quad toys for kids, what the fuck's it then? It's modular, what the fuck does that mean? I can stick it on my fridge?
[14:00:26] <_ENHering_> The things that are out there are difficult to program and to upgrade hardware and software. These modules are easy.
[14:00:49] <carabia> last i heard you usb them and press upload
[14:00:56] <_ENHering_> You can use it to flush a toilet, carabia
[14:01:04] <carabia> REALLY?
[14:01:11] <_ENHering_> Yep.
[14:01:13] <carabia> does it parse JSON?
[14:01:32] <carabia> Actually, I like you already. You're cool after all.
[14:01:39] <_ENHering_> I can put a json parser on a atmega328, I believe
[14:02:01] <_ENHering_> I'm not cool. Just another human being around.
[14:02:03] <carabia> Easily, possibly no need for buffering, straight stream down the toilet.
[14:02:15] <_ENHering_> Imagine that!
[14:02:39] <carabia> no, don't be modest. and don't use that human being -term, it has a bad vibe to it nowadays
[14:02:42] <_ENHering_> It can be used for other useful stuff too.
[14:02:54] <carabia> can it do PID on JSON?
[14:03:02] <carabia> that's _next level_
[14:03:06] <_ENHering_> No idea.
[14:03:19] <carabia> bss36504: great news, we finally have a platform for toilet.js
[14:03:49] <_ENHering_> If you can put it inside an atmega328 together with the SPI protocol class, it can do for you
[14:04:30] <carabia> yes, we need classes
[14:04:42] <carabia> we need STL too.
[14:04:54] <_ENHering_> I was also thinking about other useful uses. Imagine that! an automatic, modular ass wipener, fitted with wifi!
[14:05:09] <_ENHering_> I'll probably get rich with these.
[14:05:33] <_ENHering_> Sorry for the bad joke. I'm not good at jokes too.
[14:05:36] <carabia> Would you like to work for me?
[14:05:44] <_ENHering_> You pay well?
[14:06:09] <carabia> pay's probably shit, there's no chicks, but you'll get to change the world one toilet at a time.
[14:06:10] <_ENHering_> I'm in Brazil. I want to leave Brazil for some years. If you pay well, maybe I would.
[14:06:40] <carabia> oh, brazil you say. perhaps in that case the pay's going to be stellar.
[14:06:49] <_ENHering_> I can see the wrld changing this way. One toilet at a time. In fact that's probably how the world really changes.
[14:07:00] <_ENHering_> perhaps, carabia.
[14:07:51] <carabia> if i had booze i would love to hear some elaborations on that, my dear friend. But as it is i'll take a rain check for now
[14:07:55] <_ENHering_> In fact I wanted to make things fly. That's why I have built this. Or I'm still trying to build.
[14:08:13] <_ENHering_> Imagine a flying toilet...
[14:08:27] <carabia> even the great santos-dumont would be proud of you.
[14:08:28] <bss36504> "oh, brazil you say. perhaps in that case the pay's going to be stellar. " <<< LOL carabia
[14:08:29] <_ENHering_> Auto flushable!
[14:08:35] <carabia> bss36504: :)
[14:08:58] <_ENHering_> Imagine what an experimental physicist does in Brazil...
[14:09:13] <carabia> well
[14:09:34] <_ENHering_> After a stupid leftist ignorant government does its job.
[14:09:42] <carabia> dies of malaria? or some other exotic disease? if not, possibly hunger
[14:09:50] <_ENHering_> no malaria here.
[14:09:54] <_ENHering_> Not so bad.
[14:09:57] <carabia> well, as it stands, scientists are better off when the government is leftist
[14:10:00] <_ENHering_> no hunger also.
[14:10:02] <carabia> as long as you dance to their tune
[14:10:10] <_ENHering_> I don't dance.
[14:10:23] <_ENHering_> They don't know how to tune.
[14:10:37] <_ENHering_> Let's talk about flying toilets. Better.
[14:10:47] <carabia> but the brazilian government is more interested in governing their own interests. Though, this is true for all governments, they just do it more blatantly.
[14:11:02] <_ENHering_> Yep. Much more.
[14:11:17] <_ENHering_> They infested everything here.
[14:11:25] <carabia> however, politics is such a socialist-infected topic
[14:11:35] <carabia> flying toilets indeed, is better.
[14:11:39] <_ENHering_> I discovered myself rightist. Not Trump like, but rightist.
[14:12:22] <carabia> however the current model of so-called free market is far from it.
[14:12:39] <carabia> from the actul free market, that is
[14:12:43] <carabia> meh. keyboard
[14:12:44] <_ENHering_> So. The servo module can control up to 16 toilets at a time.
[14:12:53] <carabia> anyway, you are familiar with santos-dumont?
[14:12:57] <_ENHering_> I am.
[14:13:02] <carabia> he's probably my all time favorite brazilian
[14:13:33] <_ENHering_> Brazilian. First guy to really fly an airplane. Takeoff, fly, land. Controled flight. Not that wright brothers fake stuff
[14:13:48] <_ENHering_> ...lled..
[14:13:57] <carabia> well, there's many an argument to be had who really flew first
[14:14:15] <carabia> IIRC, wright bros flew 1903, like 40 m, or so...
[14:14:18] <_ENHering_> yep. Some were catapulted. Others took off.
[14:14:32] <bss36504> Hey the wright bros are an important part of murican history and as a proud murican I will not have you speak ill of them
[14:14:32] <carabia> the french guy flew already in 1890 but he flew < 1m altitude
[14:15:08] <carabia> and if memory serves, dumont flew 1906 but it was a /bit/ more of a real flight than what wright bros did 1903
[14:15:10] <_ENHering_> Lets talk about flying toilets. Better.
[14:15:44] <_ENHering_> dummont took off, controlled his flight around eifell tower and landed later
[14:15:53] <carabia> that was later, however.
[14:15:56] <_ENHering_> not a /bit/ more.
[14:16:03] <carabia> not 1906
[14:16:11] <_ENHering_> I'm bad at dates too.
[14:16:14] <_ENHering_> Sorry.
[14:16:36] <_ENHering_> What is importat is that all those people tried hard and changed our history.
[14:16:36] <carabia> oh wait I think it was
[14:16:59] <carabia> probably even earlier. I'm bad with dates too
[14:17:00] <_ENHering_> my keyboard does not like me. It is eating the letters...
[14:17:21] <_ENHering_> So...
[14:17:31] <_ENHering_> I came here to ask a probably stupid question.
[14:17:40] <_ENHering_> Physicists do not know electronics.
[14:17:55] <carabia> think it was his airship design though, around the eiffel, not a fixed-wing aircraft
[14:17:57] <_ENHering_> So I'm just another ignorant
[14:18:08] <_ENHering_> fixed-wing
[14:18:20] <_ENHering_> I forgot the name.
[14:18:31] <_ENHering_> Sorry. I'm bad at history.
[14:19:03] <_ENHering_> Question: is there a simple way to debug a SPI connection between two atmega328 s?
[14:19:48] <carabia> okay i had to check. yes 1901 he flew the airship around eiffel
[14:19:53] <_ENHering_> I probably did some shit when I upgraded the version of my modules. This thing was working on last version, but on this one one module says 123.456 and the other reads 0000
[14:20:09] <carabia> 1906 was when he flew his fixed-wing stuff. and wright bros already flew the flyer in 1903
[14:20:18] <carabia> _ENHering_: debug, as in?
[14:20:44] <_ENHering_> carabia: debug as understand where those bits are going to...
[14:20:56] <carabia> well, an LA
[14:20:58] <_ENHering_> the flyer was catapulted.
[14:21:14] <_ENHering_> I have an Atmel Ice. Can it analyse levels?
[14:21:42] <_ENHering_> I also have an USB tiny, but it unexplainably stopped working yesterday.
[14:22:04] <bss36504> Oh finally somebody else in here who actually bought a fucking programmer
[14:22:04] <bss36504> happy to help
[14:22:06] <_ENHering_> After years of service
[14:22:12] <bss36504> analyze levels?
[14:22:31] <rue_house> try a slower programming speed
[14:22:34] <carabia> sure, it was, but the later design wasn't, and they fly like over half an hour in 1905 with it
[14:22:41] <_ENHering_> the Atmel ICE has an SPI sniffer, or something like that
[14:22:42] <rue_house> then try a usbasp
[14:23:00] <carabia> _ENHering_: don't think so...? Well, I guess you could hack it to do that...
[14:23:18] <_ENHering_> carabia, do you have a link on that flight? I'd like to learn about it.
[14:23:39] <carabia> I gotta google. sec.
[14:23:45] <bss36504> _ENHering_: The atmel ICE does not have a SPI sniffer, AFAIK
[14:24:09] <_ENHering_> carabia: I read something abou that sniffer thing, but would like to find someone who actually uses it.
[14:24:31] <_ENHering_> really, bss36504? Then I may have misunderstood what I read.
[14:25:04] <_ENHering_> I also need an osciloscope. But import taxes in Brazil are VERY high. 60%.
[14:25:24] <_ENHering_> Everything gets doubled.
[14:25:30] <bss36504> Holy shit
[14:25:34] <bss36504> that's prohibitve to say the least
[14:25:38] <_ENHering_> Yep.
[14:25:52] <_ENHering_> Plus a 3.4 to 1 BRL to USD
[14:26:17] <carabia> _ENHering_: for digital buses, just get a $5 LA off ebay
[14:26:24] <carabia> especially for avr shit it's more than enough
[14:26:36] <_ENHering_> If anybody knows who needs a skillful physicist, please tell me. I'm willing to relocate.
[14:27:01] <_ENHering_> LAs can be that cheap, carabia? I'll look for them.
[14:27:43] <_ENHering_> I almost bought one of those fancy USB scopes, but they costed 200 USD, which meant around 400USD here.
[14:27:49] <carabia> http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Logic-Analyzer-24MHz-8-Channel-UART-IIC-SPI-Debug-for-MCU-FPGA-ARM-/191685084604
[14:27:53] <_ENHering_> There is a nice one with LA
[14:28:10] <bss36504> _ENHering_: Apparently there is a way to use the SPI or USART on the device and set up the Atmel ICE to treat it like a Data Gateway Interface:
http://www.atmel.com/Images/Atmel-42330-Atmel-ICE_UserGuide.pdf Section 3.1
[14:28:12] <carabia> works w/ the salaea software out of the box. win/loonix/fag osx
[14:28:17] <bss36504> _ENHering_: 3.10*
[14:28:32] <carabia> yeah I was thinking of something like that bss36504
[14:28:56] <_ENHering_> Thanks for the link.
[14:29:06] <_ENHering_> I'll order that.
[14:29:11] <carabia> you can get a 16-chan too
[14:29:17] <bss36504> I snagged it from this forum post:
http://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/it-possible-monitor-serial-using-atmel-ice-solved
[14:29:31] <carabia> look around in the internets for "salaea clones"
[14:29:43] <_ENHering_> That one does not ship to Brazil, But I'll find one that does.
[14:29:50] <carabia> yeah, there's loads.
[14:30:35] <carabia> get a salaea clone, there's some tech-hippie "open hardware(?lol?)" shit that goes around with what you gotta use their tech-hippy shitty software
[14:30:50] <carabia> don't get the tech hippy shit.
[14:31:48] <carabia> _ENHering_: i can't find a proper link, but I'm quite sure that in the later flights of the flyer 3 they didn't use a catapult anymore
[14:32:03] <carabia> i might be wrong. saw it in a documentary once oslt.
[14:32:12] <_ENHering_> I was thinkg about this one...
[14:32:14] <_ENHering_> http://www.bitscope.com
[14:32:52] <_ENHering_> carabia, what we learn here is that SD was the first controlled flight
[14:33:11] <_ENHering_> But history is never fare
[14:33:25] <carabia> he was great. iirc he crashed once when the elevator cable snapped :)
[14:33:44] <carabia> it's a crappy way to fly, all in all
[14:33:50] <_ENHering_> His house here is full of inovations.
[14:34:03] <carabia> that could be a cool place to visit once in a lifetime
[14:34:23] <_ENHering_> and his airplane was reproduced and flown by brazilian navy
[14:34:26] <carabia> _ENHering_: you /could/ be better off getting a proper scope, i.e. a cheapo rigol, and a cheap LA
[14:34:36] <carabia> if you want analog domain too
[14:35:08] <carabia> i think he got a bit pissed due to armies utilizing planes as weapons in WW I
[14:35:38] <_ENHering_> analog domain is necessary. A proper scope would be nice.
[14:35:41] <carabia> i have nothing but bad experiences with usb scopes, but YMMV
[14:35:50] <_ENHering_> nice to know that, carabia
[14:36:09] <_ENHering_> I had a HP in the lab, but lab is far now.
[14:36:10] <specing> Does there exist a >= 50 Mhz >2 channel scope that has fully foss software for GNU/Linux?
[14:36:33] <specing> bonus if the hardware itself is open as well
[14:36:33] <carabia> specing: you mean usb?
[14:36:42] <_ENHering_> imagine hacking a scope... TRying to find where it froze and why...
[14:36:47] <specing> carabia: I'd prefer gigE or PCI-e
[14:36:56] <carabia> whatever, you get the idea
[14:37:04] <specing> or cardbus
[14:37:13] <carabia> _ENHering_: you /might/ be able to grab something like a used rigol for < $ 200
[14:37:33] <_ENHering_> It goes up to 5000 BRL here, for a 2 channel scope. That is around 1500 USD.
[14:37:42] <carabia> yeah, but overseas
[14:38:20] <_ENHering_> You convinced me. I'll try to ask some friends to mail me one from US
[14:38:28] <carabia> :D
[14:38:46] <carabia> remember to remind them to stick those 5 USD *GIFT* stickers on top
[14:39:17] <_ENHering_> From person to person, up to 50USD packs are not charged.
[14:39:32] <_ENHering_> If a company is in the middle, 60% taxes apply
[14:39:34] <carabia> yeah, figured it'd be something like that
[14:39:49] <_ENHering_> Thanks, carabia.
[14:40:00] <carabia> no biggie
[14:40:21] <_ENHering_> Now, if you have some spare time, have a look at my modular toilet flusher.
[14:40:26] <_ENHering_> Please.
[14:40:26] <carabia> :D
[14:40:37] <carabia> yeah, you're cool like that. I will.
[14:40:59] <_ENHering_> Tell me its useless and I'll stop bothering people asking them to look at the project and, maybe, adhere to it.
[14:41:32] <_ENHering_> Thanks, carabia. You are cool too. Nice channel this one. Nice people.
[14:42:51] <_ENHering_> I'll take my 6month old daughter to a walk on the shopping center. Thanks everyone for the patience on the santos dumont stuff.
[14:43:14] <carabia> _ENHering_: off topic is not easily shunned at over here
[14:43:22] <_ENHering_> I imagine
[14:44:03] <carabia> _ENHering_: oh it's like that. Yeah, seems like a cool design if you can figure out a good and compact set of connectors for it, actually
[14:44:31] <_ENHering_> I'd like to solve that connector issue. It really sucks like that.
[14:44:49] <carabia> yeah, that's really the crux of it
[14:45:33] <_ENHering_> Do you do rock climbing? crux is used a lot between climbers here.
[14:46:12] <_ENHering_> Just another off topic. Sorry.
[14:46:21] <carabia> noo, i've only seen that one muricano who is praised to be "the best climber ever" (?)
[14:46:29] <carabia> if memory serves, again
[14:47:06] <_ENHering_> In Rio de Janeiro there are hundreds of amazing rock climbing places. With their cruxes.
[14:47:29] <_ENHering_> Places where you quetion yourself and your attitudes a lot.
[14:47:44] <_ENHering_> Thanks for looking at it, carabia.
[14:48:01] <_ENHering_> I have to leave.
[14:48:03] <carabia> yeah. i think this guy i watched was called chris sharma
[14:48:07] <carabia> alright. have a good one.
[16:14:16] <rue_house> rack climbing? what kinda fertilizer are they using on those server farms these days?
[16:19:22] <carabia> rue_house: hello. How's the inbreeding working out fer ya?
[16:20:02] <rue_house> I have failed again to interbreed with a matress, I shall persist.
[16:21:19] <rue_house> defeat is for those who give uyp
[16:21:45] <carabia> wrong
[16:21:46] <rue_house> defeat is for those who give up
[16:21:51] <carabia> wrong
[16:22:53] <carabia> have you been fixing up the old cars again sirrah?
[16:23:55] <rue_house> why are you so infatuated with me anyhow?
[16:24:46] <rue_house> YOU want to breed with me!
[16:24:51] <rue_house> oh man...
[16:24:58] <carabia> so you have?
[16:25:09] <rue_house> IF THIS HAPPENS AGAIN, SOMEONE __WARN ME__
[16:25:36] <carabia> the voices, you know the ones who keep calling for you at night, will warn you
[16:26:26] <rue_house> I need to work out how to add a mouth and emotion-capable eyes to a motorbike helmet without making it look stupid
[16:26:54] <carabia> i suggest you would first finish one project before burdening your feeble mind with more ideas
[16:27:28] <rue_house> it dosn't take a quad processor to do more than 1 thing at a time, not that you'd know :(
[16:27:47] <rue_house> when you have a big mind, you can do lots of things at the same time with no effort
[16:27:54] <carabia> i wouldn't call it infatuation, i'm just really intrigued by an utterly broken individual who likes to give peeks into hiss totally shattered mind via monologues
[16:28:47] <rue_house> I see a blanket over jellousy
[16:29:18] <rue_house> I would say that if you try you can achive, but... well, dont give up.
[16:29:25] <carabia> let's say it's a blanket over fear, rather
[16:30:01] * rue_house rawrs....
[16:30:12] <rue_house> hmm, stupid cold
[16:30:26] <carabia> fear of borking myself - for kids too, to beware - you and thebear really are two alike
[16:30:27] <rue_house> ok, arg, I...
[16:30:33] * rue_house cleans up the mucus
[16:30:47] <rue_house> I need to get soup, and fix the data line at the bank
[16:30:58] <rue_house> I want to do neither
[16:31:00] <carabia> oh yes, the old data lines at the bank
[16:31:09] <carabia> they need some fixer-uppin
[16:31:20] <rue_house> head is pounding and there isn't even any music playing, talk about a gip.
[16:32:21] <carabia> what's the latest on the door bell?
[16:32:28] <carabia> keep us posted
[16:32:30] <rue_house> (and I would like to say that I hold nothing against gypsies, its just a word, dont get all uppidy)
[16:33:22] <carabia> oh yeah, gypsies just need some lovin cause they steal for a good cause!!
[16:33:34] <rue_house> carabia, I really cant imagine what existance must be like for you
[16:33:43] <rue_house> only one voice?
[16:34:02] <carabia> is this some new-age bullshittery?
[16:34:17] <rue_house> you only have 1 thought train
[16:34:21] <rue_house> like, 1 thread?
[16:34:38] <carabia> hmm, this is a good question
[16:34:40] <rue_house> can you whistle and walk?
[16:34:53] <rue_house> maybe the others are there, but just cant talk
[16:35:17] <rue_house> you have never been listening to music and, at the same time, wanted to put some music on?
[16:35:42] <carabia> this really boils down to how your mind is shattered, your inability to focus and function.
[16:36:01] <rue_house> when you do things, nothing is debating other ways to do it, with their +s and -s?
[16:36:03] <carabia> the question's not about me. We can say, when I want to focus yes, I run on a single thread.
[16:36:40] <carabia> well, you're not focusing on the issue, as is characteristic of you
[16:36:40] <rue_house> I want to learn from this
[16:36:56] <rue_house> I'm almost always doing 3 thinsg at once
[16:37:20] <rue_house> it works out, most things involve waiting
[16:37:21] <carabia> it's not the same thing to "walk and whistle", to "listen to music and wanting to put (more?) music on" <-(??) and to focus and weigh pros and cons of certain ways of doing things
[16:37:42] <rue_house> your so different, this is cool
[16:37:55] <carabia> you are almost always doing a million things at the same time, which is why you either a) take a great deal of time to finish them, or b) never finish them
[16:38:24] <carabia> cause your mind keeps bouncing around like a fucking superball
[16:38:28] <rue_house> not a million, tho I'm sure 3 at once would seem like it to you, its nothing for me
[16:38:43] <rue_house> if I hit about 5 things, it FEELS like a million
[16:38:54] <rue_house> so, I understand where your comming from
[16:39:38] <rue_house> I was prolly down to 1 thread this morning, I had to concentrate on driving like I'v never done before
[16:39:54] <carabia> i do things efficiently, and finish them. Let's say I want to build x. step 1) design x. step 2) start implementing. if issues are encountered, revise step 1. step 3) ?? step 4) underpants...
[16:40:02] <rue_house> I wonder how long this cold? will last
[16:40:30] <rue_house> I thread, if there were 3 of the physical me, things would go much better
[16:40:47] <carabia> you call it threading. others call it schizophernia. I'm not even kidding
[16:40:55] <carabia> it really seems to render you nigh unfunctional
[16:41:02] <carabia> schizophrenia, even
[16:41:04] <rue_house> this is why I'm excited at the prospect of building a rack of cnc machines and 3d printers
[16:41:32] <rue_house> carabia, sorry, studdies prove that smart people are night owls
[16:41:37] <rue_house> WHO! WHO!!!!!
[16:41:42] <rue_house> :P
[16:41:46] <carabia> well, not unfunctional in the sense of day-to-day life, but in terms of productivity
[16:41:54] <carabia> rue_house: that, has nothing to do with schizophrenia
[16:42:15] <carabia> well, perhaps even there could be a correlation which would be very irrelevant in regard of the subject at hand
[16:42:30] <rue_house> well that finishs it, my property value is waaaaay over what it should be
[16:42:44] <carabia> huh?
[16:42:58] <rue_house> I cant get it down to what it should be, but I can argue the 31% increase
[16:43:48] <rue_house> I'm gonna get dressed and try to drive in a straight line to town, fix the bank data line, and IF I can remember, buy chicken noodle soup
[16:44:07] <rue_house> noodles aren't made out of chicken, but 'eh, its cheap.
[16:44:28] * rue_house wiats to finish brushing his teeth
[16:44:34] <carabia> this is going off a weird tangent again
[16:44:54] <rue_house> there is a big picture, and your fov is too narrow
[16:45:20] <rue_house> on a hypercube, do you know why the inner cube is smaller?
[16:45:47] <carabia> however, there is something I wanted to say of your archiving. That's something I'm genuinely jealous of. I can't seem to keep track of anything I made over a year ago. I wish I could, but I simply can't, so I rather bitch about it
[16:45:47] <rue_house> (3d projection of a hypercube)
[16:46:13] <carabia> the cube of the projection, that is
[16:46:22] <carabia> in four dimensions, there are no inner cubes.
[16:46:25] <rue_house> maybe your a web bot and your past is a fallicy
[16:46:48] <carabia> perhaps.
[16:47:18] <rue_house> if I were a webbot, I'd prolly not be argueing with the government about property taxes
[16:50:40] <Tom_itx> rue_house, what happened to your day job?
[16:50:48] <rue_house> andI prolyl wouldn't ahve a cold
[17:23:42] <Jartza> well
[17:24:10] <Jartza> went to sleep early
[17:24:13] <Jartza> woke up after 4 hours
[17:24:21] <Jartza> now it's almost 1am and I'm not sleepy
[17:24:24] <Jartza> d'oh
[17:48:27] <hetii> Hi :)
[17:49:08] <hetii> Q: Any clue how long wire I can have between ws2812b and avr (ambilght project) ?
[17:49:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> what is the interface?
[17:49:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> i2c, spi?
[17:49:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> what voltage?
[17:50:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> what thickness wire?
[17:50:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> what comms speed?
[17:50:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> with the info given, I would say,,, | | bout that long
[17:51:21] <hetii> cat5e, no clue about AWGxx used in it. about distance its around 2m. avr probably will work at 5v.
[17:51:40] <hetii> and led strip will use OC1A output of atmega8
[17:52:33] <hetii> hmm maybe even 2.5m.,,
[17:53:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> well, having skimmed the datasheet for this device I've never seen before,,,,I would say you can probably drive it out to about 5 or 8 meters without too much problem.
[17:54:46] <hetii> cool :)
[17:54:47] <hetii> ok thx
[17:54:51] <rue_house> Tom_itx, I'm ill today
[17:55:26] <rue_house> I run i2c devices over 100feet of wire, so I'd say 30m
[17:55:39] <rue_house> you might need to T A L K S L O W T H O
[17:56:35] <hetii> also wonder if atmega8 have enougth power to handle 6 software pwm + nrf24l01 and this ws2812b.
[17:59:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> hetii, yes...that being said, you need to provide more specifications.
[18:00:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> you could, in theory, do 20 software pwm on it but not real fast.
[18:00:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> at least, not compared to 6.
[18:01:30] <hetii> ok so there will be 4 RGBW pwm just used for regular leds strip. Two pwm to control triacs so additional zero cross detector will use probably interrupt 1.
[18:02:06] <hetii> and as I wrote probably will use pulling of NRF24l01 to check if there are some data to handle.
[18:02:53] <hetii> I have also pinouts for usb to handle v-usb but it will be used probably to upload new firmware
[18:03:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> v-usb will take about half or more of your total processing power.
[18:04:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> interrupt driven pwm will likely create havoc with v-usb.
[18:04:59] <hetii> I`m afraid that also...
[18:05:16] <hetii> but as say before usb is just optional.
[18:06:06] <hetii> maybe if need use v-usb with nrf as a bridge
[18:06:44] <hetii> but its other story
[18:08:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> i just use cheap pic16f1454 for usb interfaces myself.
[18:09:32] <hetii> yep, the point is that I have few atmega8 and fewnrf chip and need to use it somewhere...
[18:10:15] <hetii> this day probably is cheaper use esp8266 then nrf+avr
[18:12:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> depends on the project really.
[18:12:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> cheaper yes
[18:12:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> not always better.
[18:14:14] <hetii> true
[18:46:42] <hetii> ok some other subject :)
[18:47:28] <hetii> I have idea to build pcb exposure by using x/y axes and two 405nm lasers
[18:48:05] <hetii> the question is about power. I can order 500mW or 200mW
[18:48:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> with enough money you can order anything.
[18:48:39] <hetii> also wonder about lens inside, so how big the "dot" should be at the end
[18:49:37] <hetii> sure :) but the idea is to spend less then 100$
[18:51:16] <carabia> did i just hear someone say "better" and "avr" in the same context?
[18:51:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> see, again, you must provide some specifications.
[18:51:40] <carabia> hahahahaha
[18:53:07] <hetii> this looks nice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SNkzoOvoD8
[18:54:23] <theBear> pfft... rue is kinda eccentric and cool, but NOONE is quite like theBear.... this world ain't big enough for two bears
[18:56:13] <carabia> you mean, the world isn't big enough for two wankers chronically fucked and borderline incapacitated, who should be cut off welfare and have their plugs pulled?
[18:56:25] <carabia> i mean, this is referring to you, not rue
[18:57:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> ok..back on ignore.
[18:57:12] <carabia> i should've added: "no offense" ;D
[18:59:09] <carabia> Lambda_Aurigae: i can't be subtle, for they'll just miss the point
[18:59:21] <theBear> chronically incapacitated and heavily damaged in the brain chemistry area, who if cripple welfare should exist (regular definately should not,) deserves it more than most because they take their world class $100+/hr skills and share them with those who deserve them at any time they are remotely capable of standing up, cos capitalism should be avoided at all costs
[18:59:29] <hetii> but see you soon :)
[18:59:53] <carabia> theBear: of course, i wouldn't expect anything less from you, 'cept socialism.
[18:59:59] <theBear> and you can be not subtle, i've got over 30 years practice missing all kinds of points
[19:00:32] <carabia> so, basically you're living off some sort of welfare and scrap- and make do just because you're too lazy to put your "world class" (joke of the evening) skills to work?
[19:00:44] <carabia> or could that be, that no-one's willing to pay you $100 an hour?
[19:00:54] <theBear> even when i don't miss them, i'm so used to trying to miss them that i go off on a little sojourn and forget to do anything in response to them
[19:01:15] <carabia> or, last option, you're such a good guy you just don't want to charge!!
[19:01:53] <theBear> nah, lots of people are, this is a backwards country, there's maybe 10 people that do the things i do at more than a hobby level
[19:02:19] <carabia> world class skills, by definition, would be sought after globally
[19:02:37] <carabia> this in turn implies you could nail a job at a multitude of locations, so current whereabouts is not really an argument.
[19:03:10] * carabia does not compute...
[19:03:16] <theBear> i'm just a responsible guy... i don't feel it's fair to agree to take a job that you can't guarantee when you can attend or achieve... and even now, remembering i NEVER advertised or asked for international work, it gets offered
[19:03:50] <carabia> but you're just such a good guy you rather live off the gov't and make ends meet barely.
[19:03:51] <theBear> but that's why i'm universally and legally considered unfit to work
[19:03:59] <carabia> and give your world class skills out for free.
[19:04:57] <carabia> because consultation is off-limits too, you could work as your own agent for one(or multiple) off consultations
[19:05:12] <theBear> i'm such a crippled guy that i'd starve in a week without a cripple pension, and while i may or may not think objectively that i should go on living, the human mind is a cruel mistress, and makes me feel grateful for the ability to feed and house myself
[19:05:21] <carabia> but nah. you consult for free. theBear is the modern-day mother teresa
[19:07:14] <carabia> one's capacity for objective thinking is often introspectively estimated too high
[19:07:33] <theBear> would you wanna pay a consultant that may or may not be totally incapacitated and unable to think or even have a surprise few weeks in hospital at any time ? if you would, you probly ain't much of a businessperson, and either way, having been an employer and contract giver many times over the years, i feel it's unreasonable to advertise any services under these conditions
[19:07:35] <carabia> and hey, perhaps we're all a waste of breath, just that some are more than others
[19:08:26] <carabia> well, what are you suggesting? That you should be, quote-unquote terminated?
[19:08:28] <theBear> i'm a sociopath at nature, modern medical professionals decided this, not me... this certainly helps with the objective thinking
[19:08:53] <carabia> there's an argument to be had that might also work against it.
[19:09:06] <theBear> i'm saying that logically i'm not worthwhile feeding or otherwise keeping alive
[19:09:13] <carabia> surely it will not help, as the whole question is not of empathy in the first place
[19:09:36] <carabia> theBear: that's the first thing you've said, that I can agree with wholeheartedly
[19:09:43] <theBear> empathy is one major cause of subjective foolishness
[19:10:21] <theBear> and no need to terminate, without all sorts of fulltime medicines and of course food and housing, i'd probly be gone within a week
[19:10:22] <carabia> well, that's one way to spin it. but lack of empathy in itself does not necessarily help you think objectively.
[19:10:41] <theBear> yeah, that's fair
[19:10:42] <carabia> then we can get into a whole host of philosophical issues when we're starting to define what objectivity is
[19:11:54] <carabia> but, as we have reached an agreement on the thing that actually mattered, i shall conclude this discussion on that note, on my part.
[19:12:07] <theBear> or i could take this handful of steroids and opiates and various receptor-behaviour-modifiers and go try to sleep before the steroids turn me all sweating incapable hulk for about 12 hours
[19:12:41] <theBear> ooh, see, i'm slow, off my game, and this is a relatively healthy/fit 10 minute window
[19:12:48] <theBear> so long as i move my bum *now*
[19:12:54] <carabia> or you could get a skull-form-modifier shotgun
[19:14:10] <theBear> then some poor bastards gotta clean me up and replaster the wall and ceiling in here, that doesn't seem fair.... i'll just keep robin-hooding technology for those who deserve it, and of course subversing capitalism any opportunity i see in front of me
[19:14:22] <_ENHering_> Hi. I'm back. Nice discussion you had here.
[19:14:34] <theBear> thanks, very kind of you
[19:14:44] <carabia> theBear: do it upstream the river.
[19:14:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's funny watching half of those discussions.
[19:15:11] <theBear> ooh, maybe some of the most hallucinogenic substance known to mankind too, yeah, that'll get the day off on the right foot
[19:15:24] <theBear> gonna be over bodytemp ambient in a few short hours, maybe not even that long
[19:15:28] <_ENHering_> Somebody asked about laser power for doing PCBs in a CNC. Mine is 500mW, 808nm. More info here.
[19:15:30] <_ENHering_> http://gabuleu.blogspot.com.br
[19:16:06] <carabia> theBear: a good slug will reduce your bodytemp down to ambient quite effectively
[19:16:29] <theBear> err, i think you mean raise my bodytemp up to ambient
[19:16:50] <carabia> err, no, you should do it outside. upstream the river, told you.
[19:16:53] <_ENHering_> Has anyone here ever read "A day with an extraterrestial" by Lou Baldin?
[19:17:20] <_ENHering_> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwia6_v5zuPRAhXFH5AKHWAQAXoQFggcMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unicusmagazine.com%2FPDF%2FA%2520Day%2520With%2520An%2520Extraterrestrial%2520by%2520Lou%2520Baldin.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEfZtfvl7voLjCQxD5rJR4Cq195rg&sig2=WEiA8d5HXjMclPd40fXf3A
[19:17:37] <_ENHering_> Sorry:
http://www.unicusmagazine.com/PDF/A%20Day%20With%20An%20Extraterrestrial%20by%20Lou%20Baldin.pdf
[19:18:02] <_ENHering_> I like his vision. Earth is a prison and we loose a lot of time trying to make it better.
[19:18:41] <_ENHering_> That is why flying toilets are the future.
[19:18:47] <_ENHering_> :)
[19:19:43] <theBear> meh, i'm gonna smoke some of this dmt instead and have some visions of my own, heck, maybe i'll have my own flying toilets in 60 seconds or so... too bad i won't know what toilet means by then, but hey, it's better than explaining reality to some grumpy sounding dude in irc :)
[19:20:22] <carabia> _ENHering_: discussion was great and bore many a fruit. I just have some deep fundamental opposions to individuals such as theBear who have rendered themselves unfit for society (by means of self-inflicting, more specifically), and at the same time cry out for government to save them, i.e. socialism.
[19:21:07] <_ENHering_> There is a lot of this here.
[19:21:37] <_ENHering_> A program called zero poverty renders millions useless by giving money for them for free.
[19:22:24] <_ENHering_> Society is a set of contracts. You should not break them and at the same time ask society to help you.
[19:22:47] <carabia> There's a fine line for distinctions for border cases. But cases in the extreme spectrum such as this one right here, should be no-brainers.
[19:23:08] <theBear> what the fuck ! how do you self inflict spinal deformities ? how do you render yourself instructed by both private and govt. appointed doctors not to work ? how do you call not approving of welfare crying out to be saved ?
[19:23:12] <_ENHering_> You would love brazilian Workers PArty, carabia...
[19:24:05] <_ENHering_> theBear: Human willpower is amazing. It can even make us believe in our own bull shit.
[19:24:53] <_ENHering_> Sorry. I talk too much. I should know when to be quiet.
[19:25:19] <carabia> Over here they started a program too, they selected a few thousand people, to participate in a program where people already laid off or on welfare, to get paid an additional "paycheck" every month (provided by the government, naturally)
[19:25:40] <_ENHering_> US, carabia?
[19:25:54] <_ENHering_> Or Europe?
[19:25:54] <theBear> maybe it can, but i ain't ever been happy about any of this, i been forced away from working several times, before that i literally ground my own defective spine more than most people do in a lifetime doing things others shy away from
[19:25:58] <carabia> europe
[19:26:31] <_ENHering_> theBear: there are 7 books on Amazon written by a guy called Thr Rogue Hypnotist.
[19:26:34] <_ENHering_> The
[19:26:41] <carabia> the program was mentioned all over the world, where they praised it, and how other countries should follow suit. This naturally being the leftist tendencies around everywhere.
[19:26:49] <_ENHering_> They cost almost nothing for the kindle version.
[19:26:50] <carabia> especially by the press.
[19:27:35] <theBear> and IF i could work i can make hundreds of dollars a month with no pension penalties, i could eat everyday, drink away the loathing for western society and the people that form it like i used to, be a little happy, but this is patently impossible
[19:27:36] <_ENHering_> When you say "my own defective spine" you are using associative language. You attach yourself to the problem.
[19:28:06] <_ENHering_> Try using "that defective spine". Your subconscious will try to fix the problem, instead of holding to it.
[19:28:07] <theBear> i'm attached to it ! every fucking moment, every time i move, i'm reminded of how absolutely attached to the problem i am
[19:28:27] <carabia> theBear: so is this a prime example of your capabilities for said "objective thinking"?
[19:28:30] <_ENHering_> Auto hypnosis is very real.
[19:28:43] <_ENHering_> I suggest you read those books.
[19:28:48] <_ENHering_> Very nice ones.
[19:28:52] <_ENHering_> 1 dollar each.
[19:29:17] <theBear> then just when i about to take some drugs that destroy any concept of the self or reality, some fucking pious asshat says things like self-inflicting
[19:29:20] <_ENHering_> And try accupuncture.
[19:29:49] <_ENHering_> Yoga is also good for spine.
[19:30:16] <_ENHering_> Pilates increases back muscle power too.
[19:30:26] <carabia> theBear: yes, i meant every word of it. your defective spine has objectively nothing to do with your overusage of hallucinogens
[19:30:27] <_ENHering_> I would try in that order.
[19:30:59] <_ENHering_> I'll eat something. 22 pm here.
[19:31:08] <theBear> ooh accupuncture ? i never considered it ... pfft fuck ! you think i ain't tried everything available and anything new that turns up ? my own spine half paraplegiced itself after 6 months of lifting no more than 5kgs and doing everything possible to take care of the fucking thing
[19:31:29] <_ENHering_> yoga?
[19:31:39] <_ENHering_> hatha yoga
[19:31:52] <carabia> however, theBear you seem to come up with new excuses every time. Last time we discussed it, you were an "acid victim"
[19:32:00] <_ENHering_> spine pain is a bad karma.
[19:32:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> theBear, there's always high velocity lead injections.
[19:32:17] <_ENHering_> Acid is bad. Yu can get the same results with yoga and bija mantras.
[19:32:27] <theBear> overusage is very subjective, but it's either that or listen to dickheads like you repeating stock concepts and arguments as if they were brilliant new ideas like some kinda university student
[19:32:48] <theBear> acid casualty, but that's not an excuse or even a reason for anything, that's just history
[19:32:57] <_ENHering_> I do not have brilliant ideas. Mine are old and useles
[19:33:01] <_ENHering_> ss
[19:33:34] <carabia> then stop portraying it as such, theBear
[19:33:36] <theBear> i don't need fucking excuses, i don't need or particularly feel any reason to explain myself to you
[19:33:54] <carabia> get your fucking shit together.
[19:33:55] <theBear> i'm doing no such thing, i think you the one gotta practice objective thinking a bit
[19:34:11] <_ENHering_> Yoga frees the energetic paths of the spine. Have you ever had the impression that you can read people's thoughts? You may have awakened kundalini.
[19:34:22] <carabia> the phrases victim, and casualty, do beg to differ
[19:35:09] <carabia> also, your apparent mental capabilities (empirical evidence gathered from talking to you), cannot be a direct result of your spine.
[19:35:10] <theBear> it's a common colloquial term since long before i was born ... "acid casualty" ... those grateful dead types created it
[19:35:18] <_ENHering_> How to Hypnotise Anyone - Confessions of a Rogue Hypnotist
[19:35:39] <theBear> mental abilities don't help you walk or reach a soldering iron
[19:35:43] <_ENHering_> Hypnotically Deprogramming Addiction - Strategic Confessions of a Rogue Hypnotist!
[19:35:56] <theBear> they don't magically un-kill severed nerves
[19:36:00] <carabia> surely, but they do render you unfit for society, when you cannot even function as an individual
[19:36:07] <theBear> i function fine
[19:36:12] <theBear> as an individual
[19:36:21] <carabia> leeching the government, that is, no?
[19:36:26] <_ENHering_> Nice discussions here. :)
[19:36:41] <carabia> _ENHering_: a regular day at the office!
[19:36:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> _ENHering_, used to be more fun when it was an AVR microcontrollers chat channel.
[19:36:49] <theBear> according to society, that is acceptable, thus the facility existing
[19:37:29] <carabia> which, objectively thinking, in said society, no-one should make an active effort to help the society itself
[19:37:52] <carabia> because everyone should be paid by the government with varying degrees, no matter how dysfunctional they are
[19:38:21] <carabia> while making no active effort to make themselves a functional part of said society, again
[19:38:59] <theBear> Lambda_Aurigae, totally, so i'm gonna make an objective decision that it's better to hallucinate and forget what thinking is rather than be abused by some annoying dick :-) you have fun now
[19:39:16] <carabia> the result of which is that in the end there is no cake left to be shared, kind of like how the USSR went down.
[19:40:25] <theBear> no active effort, wowee, amazing what people can accurately detect from a few lines of text now and again, i wish i had the psychic gift, or magic glass ball, or whatever tells one such things
[19:41:50] <carabia> you can be smug about it all you like, you are clearly showing off how you have your world class skills, of which you should be paid $100 an hour, instead, you seem to loiter around with, paraphrasing yourself "no disposable income", and no real apparent intentions to change this --
[19:41:52] <theBear> oh, last one, did i mention the police nominated me fer a bravery award, you know, for saving that lady from the axe wielding maniac a while back ? yeah, selfish of me i know, but i'm unfit for society anyhow
[19:42:21] <carabia> apparently your spine wasn't a problem for that, then.
[19:42:41] <carabia> apparently your spine is not an obstacle for giving out your world-class skills for free.
[19:43:51] <carabia> and in the end, cause you know you couldn't hold a job, you don't do it. Reasons for this elude me. Disabled people do work, too. If you truly are the expert you claim, I am sure some arrangements could be made. This is a question of willpower.
