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[00:01:49] <_ami_2> sabor: :)
[00:54:16] <glagnar37> i'm a boob
[00:58:55] <_ami_> lool
[02:45:57] <rue_house> .. how can they say its constant current sand say 24V!?
[02:46:32] <rue_house> hwo can they say high resolution for a motor thats 3.75* per step?!?
[02:47:06] <rue_house> now I dont beleive the running quietness or stability
[02:48:14] <rue_house> 11.3mN*m...
[02:48:44] <rue_house> 0.115kg-cm
[02:49:10] <rue_house> which parts of this datasheet were copied from another product?
[02:54:30] <rue_house> I wonder why torque has an inner range...
[02:56:45] <rue_house> ah, max starting torque
[03:39:52] <Fleck> microstepping?
[04:18:51] <Emil> specing: actually! Yes C can give you arbitrary length numbers!
[04:19:00] <Emil> They are called bitfields!
[04:23:06] <Emil> guance: use a rotary encoder
[05:31:24] <specing> Emil: no, because a bitfield will always take one of the official word sizes, with Ada you can make it compact
[05:40:19] <Emil> ...
[05:40:42] <Emil> specing: you might want to read about that
[05:40:53] <Emil> Also you can always implement your own
[05:41:07] <Emil> it is not like ada has some magical powers
[05:41:08] <specing> can you stuff a bitfield into 3 bytes of memory?
[05:41:12] <Emil> yes
[05:41:22] <specing> interesting
[07:08:54] <spillere> o
[07:10:35] <spillere> i'm trying to setup some classes with a sonar to get rid of delays, etc. this is my class so far
http://pastie.org/private/zxnas3sqq5fipjyyxszffq , my question is i'm using a library called NewPing, how to I configure that library inside the class?
[07:14:48] <spillere> nvm, that was a poorly written question ;)
[07:39:23] <carabia> i stopped reading at "class"
[07:43:00] <spillere> is this better
http://pastie.org/private/zyywomroobdzjfuxgarbmw#35 ?
[07:43:39] <carabia> it's hard for me to tell as I already stopped reading
[07:43:52] <cehteh> hehe .. exactly the same for mew
[07:52:20] <carabia> Yes, enough loitering. I have to go back developing my nodejs framework for mos6502
[07:55:19] <carabia> i guess i should really write the interpreter first... details
[08:10:43] <spillere> carabia what the problem with classes?
[09:19:52] <carabia> they're too classy for me, you know?
[09:23:36] <carabia> class arduino extends mcu; class mcu extends architecture; class architecture extends circuit; class circuit extends electronics; class electronics extends quantumphysics; class quantumphysics extends universe
[09:23:52] <carabia> personally i have no time to go so deep into philosophical thinking when i want to write some code
[09:24:05] <Tom_L> like eating a 10 course meal when a burger would do
[09:25:25] <kre10s_> burgers ftw.
[09:25:53] <antto> hide the burgers, my cat's watching
[09:25:57] <carabia> class universe { private: void god; }
[09:26:23] <carabia> there are no accessor methods, deal with it
[09:26:53] <antto> memset(&universe, 0, sizeof(universe));
[09:27:04] <carabia> actually, void *god;
[09:27:06] <antto> YOU deal with it >8)
[09:28:06] <carabia> antto: no, the mmu flags that ro for you
[09:28:47] * kre10s_ drops universe out of scope.
[09:28:59] <kre10s_> meh.. let garbage collection deal with that crap.
[09:29:41] <antto> carabia Error: 'god' is not defined;
[09:29:49] <carabia> the kind of people i'm dealing with on a daily basis only goes to show how the garbage collection implementation is very lackluster at best
[09:31:39] <carabia> this is also easily reflected on analyzing perceived average iq, which often is probably not that far off
[11:23:39] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxeExrYjFvNWd5WVU/view?usp=sharing
[11:23:39] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxeThFLUIwN01tNmM/view?usp=sharing
[11:23:39] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxR2ZtdHcweDZWRUk/view?usp=sharing
[11:23:39] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxUlhoOGVMajlhbkU/view?usp=sharing
[11:23:45] <Jartza> :)
[11:35:12] <shangul> Jartza, what was that?
[12:00:24] <twnqx> Jartza: you made your own usb to vga adapter?
[12:01:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> pobably more like a usb powered vga demo.
[12:02:48] <twnqx> yeah
[12:02:52] <twnqx> i googled the project
[12:03:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> could, in theory, add another attiny85 to the octapentaveega project and throw v-usb on it and turn it into a usb-connected serial-vga adapter.
[12:12:41] <Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: :)
[12:13:03] <Jartza> shangul: it's attiny5 drawing VGA
[12:13:17] <Jartza> and getting power from USB
[12:17:07] <Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: I've thought about it, but personally Inuse octapentaveega with mcus, so rarely need usb
[12:17:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> Jartza, same here.
[12:17:30] <Jartza> but of course I welcome people to tinker with it :)
[12:17:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> but would be fun to connect it to a rPI-0
[12:18:07] <Jartza> it has uart too
[12:18:14] <Jartza> done that :)
[12:18:28] <shangul> Jartza, ah i see
[12:18:48] <shangul> Jartza, i saw your Video
[12:19:02] <Jartza> shangul:
https://hackaday.io/project/19248-sub-512-byte-8-color-vga-demo-with-attiny45
[12:19:07] <shangul> Jartza, how about writing a library(or anything)?
[12:19:16] <shangul> Jartza, i already saw that
[12:19:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> library for what?
[12:19:26] <shangul> Lambda_Aurigae, VGA?
[12:19:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> look at the octapentaveega
[12:19:38] <Jartza> https://youtu.be/0onA1ioAI3s
[12:19:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's not just a library..it's a full system
[12:20:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> don't need a library...doesn't really give itself over for a library really either.
[12:20:06] <Jartza> you just write to uart
[12:20:16] <Jartza> and it displays whatever text you send to it
[12:20:22] <Jartza> and parses ansi-escapes
[12:20:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> vt100-ish
[12:20:38] <Jartza> yea
[12:21:40] <Jartza> shangul: oh yea, octapentaveega is different than pentaveega :)
[12:21:43] <Jartza> https://github.com/rakettitiede/octapentaveega
[12:21:58] <Jartza> octapentaveega = attiny85 vga
[12:22:16] <Jartza> pentaveega, it's little sister = attiny5 vga
[12:22:23] <Jartza> :)
[12:22:47] <shangul> ha?
[12:22:51] <Jartza> pentaveega isn't really useful to anything, just a demo
[12:23:12] <Jartza> octapentaveega is usable as external vga adapter for any MCU
[12:23:21] <shangul> i see
[12:23:33] <Jartza> 32x16 characters on screen, uart & ansi escapes
[12:23:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> opv has a 9600bps uart interface...
[12:23:58] <shangul> but it's for attiny85, right?
[12:24:01] <shangul> Jartza, ^
[12:25:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's built on the attiny85...1 or 3 of them.
[12:25:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> 1 for bw, 3 for 3bit color
[12:25:46] <Jartza> yep
[12:26:03] <Jartza> I use it together with any other mcu
[12:26:10] <shangul> Jartza, 4 pin at all?
[12:26:18] <Jartza> so attiny85 acts as dedicated vga controller
[12:26:25] <Jartza> shangul: 4 pin what?
[12:26:57] <shangul> Jartza, how many pins are used for vga?and how many pin at all?
[12:27:45] <shangul> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxaFFxam1uVW05NlE/view
[12:27:49] <Jartza> the vga keeps attiny85 pretty busy, and uses all of the ram (32*16 = 512) so you wouldn't be able to do much with the chip
[12:28:03] <Jartza> vga is hsync, vsync, red, green & blue
[12:28:44] <Jartza> shangul: yes, the board needs +5V, GND and UART (single pin)
[12:28:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> https://github.com/rakettitiede/octapentaveega
[12:29:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> schematic on there...
[12:29:59] <Jartza> you connect TX pin of your MCU uart (for example arduino uart tx) to uart rx of octapentaveega
[12:30:12] <Jartza> and just write data to uart @9600 bps
[12:30:24] <Jartza> and it just works
[12:30:33] <shangul> i couldn't get the png but the txt(ascii art is fine)
[12:31:06] <Jartza> I have one OPV that has been running over 7 months continuously, it's very stable
[12:31:43] <Jartza> yeah
[12:31:45] <Jartza> https://github.com/rakettitiede/octapentaveega/blob/master/schematics.txt
[12:32:01] <shangul> i saw
[12:33:56] <shangul> what's "Simplified three attiny"?
[12:34:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's the color version.
[12:34:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> he just doesn't show things like the clock source..
[12:34:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> uses a 20MHz oscillator.
[12:34:46] <shangul> aha
[12:35:25] <shangul> ok intresting but not much cheap
[12:35:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> I use the single chip version here and there.
[12:36:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> makes for a simple and fairly inexpensive vga interface for my pic32 projects.
[12:37:11] <shangul> anyway, i don't have anything with it now, i will think when i wanted to use VGA
[12:37:14] <shangul> :)
[12:37:37] <shangul> i didn't start AVR programming, yet, idk which DASA programmers to made
[12:38:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> you have a parallel port?
[12:39:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> have a 74125 or 74244 chip?
[12:39:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> https://sites.google.com/site/emrirc/avrstuff
[12:39:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> couple of different stk200 clone programmers
[12:39:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> easy to make.
[12:39:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> easiest is the unbuffered..but can be dangerous.
[12:40:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> you can damage parallel port.
[12:40:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> just gotta be careful with it.
[12:41:06] <shangul> <Lambda_Aurigae> you have a parallel port? => serial
[12:41:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> oh.
[12:41:26] <shangul> https://www.avrprogrammers.com/programmers/all-serial-port
[12:41:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> bit more complex.
[12:41:36] <toddpratt> usbasp?
[12:41:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> eeewwww
[12:42:00] <shangul> i got things to make one of those DASA programmers found in that url
[12:42:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> bite your tongue toddpratt !
[12:42:07] <shangul> what?
[12:42:16] <shangul> aaaah
[12:42:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> usbasp would require programming a chip first...or buying one.
[12:42:31] * shangul bites his tongue
[12:42:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> however, usbasp is a hack
[12:42:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> a hack of a hack
[12:43:13] <shangul> how about those dasa ones?easy, cheap fast
[12:43:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> I like stk200 clones myself...dapa I guess you could call them.
[12:43:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> cheap and easy..dapa or dasa
[12:43:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> not necessarily fast.
[12:44:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> but, you aren't sending multiple megabytes of data to the chip.
[12:44:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> a few kb usually.
[12:44:44] <shangul> fast to made i meant
[12:44:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> oh.
[12:45:01] <shangul> avrprogrammers.com called them DASA
[12:45:08] <shangul> DASA, DASA-2, DASA-3
[12:45:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> fastest to make is an unbuffered dapa....5 wires between parallel port and chip.
[12:45:13] <Tom_L> hook 2 wires to a tty switch
[12:45:49] <shangul> my computer doesn't have a parallel port, i can get a pci card but it's just throwin money away
[12:45:57] <shangul> Lambda_Aurigae, dapa?
[12:46:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> direct avr paralel access
[12:46:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> https://sites.google.com/site/emrirc/avrstuff
[12:46:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> several from there.
[12:46:51] <shangul> Lambda_Aurigae, DASA(serial port)
[12:47:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> I keep older computers around with parallel ports just for that
[12:47:16] <shangul> <Lambda_Aurigae> fastest to make is an unbuffered dapa....5 wires between parallel port and chip. => i know but it's dangrous
[12:47:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> my newest with parallel port is about 3 years old.
[12:47:25] <shangul> Lambda_Aurigae, i would keep if i had
[12:47:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> also have two laptops with parallel ports.
[12:48:03] <shangul> what i have is a G31T-M motherboard which has a COM port
[12:48:08] <shangul> just this
[12:48:25] <shangul> Lambda_Aurigae, fine but i don't have
[12:48:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> dasa works as well.
[12:48:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> or, you can use rue_house's ide avr programmer.
[12:49:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> someone made an avr programmer from a 4 port usb hub too.
[12:50:17] <Tom_L> i should post my schematics since i'm not making em anymore
[12:50:42] <Tom_L> i doubt anybody would be that ambitious though
[12:50:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> hehe.
[12:51:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> not when there's chinese usbasp cheapy programmers out there.
[12:51:20] <Tom_L> most are cheap AND lazy
[12:51:58] * Lambda_Aurigae resembles that remark!
[12:53:32] <shangul> rue_house's ide avr programmer => what's this?
[12:53:41] <shangul> i already used my ide interfaces
[12:53:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> ide port interface.
[12:54:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> tricked linux into thinking the ide port is a parallel port, more or less.
[12:54:29] <shangul> what's ide port interface?the one which i connect fdd and hdd?
[12:54:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> harddrive
[12:54:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> PATA
[12:54:39] <shangul> Lambda_Aurigae, which DASA to make?
[12:54:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> parallel ATA
[12:54:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> predecessor to SATA
[12:55:01] <shangul> told you
[12:55:11] <shangul> i'm using them
[12:55:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> you don't connect floppies to it.
[12:55:16] <shangul> i do
[12:55:26] <shangul> and i play digger on my DOS floppy
[12:55:29] <shangul> :D
[12:55:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> floppy has separate port
[12:55:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> unless you have an odd ide interfaced floppy drive.
[12:56:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> can't say as I've ever seen one of those though.
[12:56:06] <Jartza> avr programmers are like few bucks
[12:56:17] <toddpratt> usbasp
[12:56:20] <toddpratt> ?
[12:56:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> more problems with usbasp than any other programmer I've ever encountered.
[12:56:51] <shangul> Lambda_Aurigae, i think it's better to use DASA, but which one?
[12:56:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> probably because they are so cheap and everybody has them but nobody understands them.
[12:56:55] <toddpratt> i have tinyusb
[12:57:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> shangul, doesn't matter..they all do the same thing.
[12:57:04] <toddpratt> but it's relatively expensive
[12:57:06] <shangul> toddpratt, what's that?
[12:57:41] <shangul> Lambda_Aurigae, i don't understand this part "There is a transistor used to invert the reset line. If you have active reset circuitry, and if that circuitry is open collector, this programmer will draw less current from the serial port than a DASA programmer. There is a transistor used to invert the reset line. If you have active reset circuitry, and if that circuitry is open collector, this programmer will draw less current from the serial port than
[12:57:42] <shangul> a DASA programmer."
[12:57:45] <shangul> oh sorry
[12:57:47] <shangul> flooding
[12:58:26] <toddpratt> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11801
[12:58:30] <toddpratt> that's what I have
[12:58:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> it means exactly what it says.
[12:58:37] <toddpratt> and a usbasp, but i haven't used that yet
[12:59:22] <toddpratt> avrdude supports it
[12:59:59] <Jartza> if one does not want usbasp, then something like this is ok:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USBTiny-USBtinyISP-AVR-ISP-programmer-for-Arduino-bootloader-Meag2560-uno-r3-UK-/282259458751
[13:00:01] <shangul> Lambda_Aurigae, isn't this dangrous to my motherboard?like an unbuffered dapa?
[13:00:15] <Jartza> most usbasps I've seen had broken firmware in them
[13:00:25] <Jartza> they worked just fine after firmware flashing, but you need AVR programmer for that :D
[13:00:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> shangul, plugging anything to your motherboard can be dangerous if you have no clue what you are doing.
[13:01:06] <Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: and most of the usbasp problems come from the broken firmware
[13:01:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> Jartza, the usbtinyisp is just a usbasp in another name.
[13:01:22] <shangul> toddpratt, i see, intresting, but why spending $19 when i can do it with less than $1?
[13:01:29] <shangul> Jartza, lol
[13:01:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> same hardware basically...using v-usb.
[13:01:37] <toddpratt> shangul: yeah, i said it was expensive
[13:02:18] <shangul> Lambda_Aurigae, what to do at all to not hurt my motherboard?and what's difference between DASA and DASA-2?less current?
[13:02:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> difference is buffering basically.
[13:02:52] <Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: hmmh, avrdude separates them, I've always thought they have different communication
[13:02:57] <rue_house> shangul, hard drive connector
[13:03:05] <Jartza> and usbtinyisp is usually made from attiny, usbasp uses atmega88
[13:03:08] <rue_house> its a window to the last bits of the isa interface
[13:03:08] <shangul> rue_house, hi, i know
[13:03:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> with the first DASA you have to manage the reset pin manually.
[13:03:17] <rue_house> which is what the parallel port basically is
[13:03:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> with dasa2 and 3, the programmer manages the reset pin.
[13:03:40] <shangul> Lambda_Aurigae, what should i do for managing the reset pin?
[13:03:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> Jartza, but they both run pretty much the same software and all v-usb based.
[13:04:06] <rue_house> shangul, did you just discover it?
[13:04:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> shangul, read the datasheet
[13:04:09] <Jartza> might be
[13:04:18] <shangul> i can use an unbuffered dapa to connect it to someone else's computer ;)
[13:04:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> understand the programming system.
[13:04:21] <Jartza> like I said, I haven't had trouble with $1 usbasp once I updated the firmware
[13:04:28] <Jartza> but before updating firmware that didn't work that well :)
[13:04:35] <rue_house> I'v not had any issues with my usbasp
[13:04:36] <shangul> <rue_house> shangul, did you just discover it? => discover what?dasa?
[13:04:40] <rue_house> almost never use it tho
[13:04:47] <Jartza> but my first avr programmer I made from attiny2313
[13:04:52] <rue_house> shangul, my ide interfaced stk200
[13:05:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> rue_house, I mentioned it.
[13:05:08] <Jartza> and I programmed that using old router that has openwrt
[13:05:21] <Jartza> I just made bitbanging avr programmer out of it
[13:05:25] <Jartza> :D
[13:05:25] <shangul> <Lambda_Aurigae> shangul, read the datasheet => ok dasa-3!
[13:05:40] <shangul> Jartza, you programmed an AVR with network?
[13:05:43] <shangul> hmm
[13:06:05] <rue_house> hahaha, I should make a bit-banged avr programmer with an stm32.. ahahhhahahaha
[13:06:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> with an openwrt router
[13:06:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> they have i/o pins on them.
[13:06:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> some of them do anyhow.
[13:06:30] <Jartza> shangul: network? no... just made avr-programmer out of old wifi-router board.
[13:06:32] <Jartza> basically
[13:06:37] <shangul> Lambda_Aurigae, i don't have one of them
[13:06:43] <shangul> Jartza, i got that
[13:06:52] <Jartza> hmmh
[13:07:03] <Jartza> maybe I should try my idea of audio-avr-programmer ;)
[13:07:17] <rue_house> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:706812/#made
[13:07:23] <shangul> Jartza, i saw that too, you are intrested in small things
[13:07:33] <rue_house> I'd never have imagined a fan grille to be even that popular
[13:07:35] <shangul> and using just one pin!
[13:07:41] <shangul> heh
[13:07:51] <Jartza> yes, I love to tinker with tiny things on my free time
[13:08:05] <Jartza> because my works is mostly cortex m3, cortex m4, linux drivers, et al.
[13:08:18] <Jartza> so bigger chips, and bigger systems
[13:08:31] <Jartza> so on my free time it's fun to try to push limits of small chips
[13:09:02] <rue_house> you would have to use stereo, with a looped back audio input for the return data, and there would be no reset control
[13:09:22] <rue_house> but I should think you could use sound io for programming an avr
[13:09:33] <shangul> can i make the board in the serial port and just a cable coming out of serial port which connects to board?
[13:09:48] <rue_house> I wonder if that means you could record an avr flash on a tape .... RETRO
[13:10:22] <rue_house> (use the chome tapes!)
[13:10:32] <shangul> (sorry i ask too much, i'm a beginner and i'm not sure what i'm doing)
[13:10:45] <rue_house> CUT THE RED WIRE!!!!
[13:10:51] <rue_house> but first, cut the blue wire
[13:12:41] <Tom_L> you sure?
[13:13:11] <antto> he's a lier, cut one of the yellow wires first
[13:13:33] <rue_house> I didn't say the blue wire was the first one to cut....
[13:14:00] <rue_house> of course if there are yellow wires you cut those first... everyone knows that
[13:14:00] <antto> i didn't say which yellow wire i meant
[13:14:27] <rue_house> small ones first, iirc
[13:14:46] <rue_house> unless its ribbon cable!
[13:15:01] * Tom_L gives it to Wile E. Coyote to cut
[13:15:31] * rue_house goes to look for an ACME box
[13:16:29] <twnqx> Jartza: have you considered implementing "sync on green"?
[13:16:31] <rue_house> the first step in being productive is to have a good breakfast.
[13:17:05] <rue_house> would eating a lithium ion battery count as a high energy breakfast?
[13:17:05] <twnqx> Jartza: also, did you consider to use the three states for two brightness levels per color, or does that clash with sync?
[13:17:26] <rue_house> 8 colours isn't enough for you!?
[13:17:31] <Tom_L> U235 might
[13:18:23] <twnqx> the more the better.
[13:20:27] <Arlenx> hi
[13:21:52] <Arlenx> i'd like to start learn programming the avr chips with Atmel studio 7 but i wonder if i can use my arduino instead of a dedicated programmer.is it possible?
[13:23:07] <shangul> Lambda_Aurigae, ^
[13:23:14] <shangul> thanks all, i should go
[13:24:02] <Jartza> twnqx: sync on green for what purpose?
[13:24:19] <Jartza> I played with combined sync which seems to work well (other name composite sync)
[13:25:02] <Jartza> I can create 8 color vga out from 3 pins, pincount isn't problem in this case
[13:25:38] <Jartza> but as octapentaveega goes, there's no RAM to store color information in single chip, unless I decrease the amount of text on screen
[13:27:13] <twnqx> i see. yeah, then there's no point
[13:28:19] <Jartza> pentaveega (the demo) has only 3 usable pins on board
[13:28:37] <Jartza> as attiny5 has only 6 pins and vcc, gnd and clock already eat 3
[13:29:43] <Jartza> I was thinking about 24x14 characters display with 8 colors with single attiny85
[13:29:51] <Jartza> that would be doable
[13:34:45] <Jartza> 24x13 with 16 colors
[13:34:46] <Jartza> lol
[13:53:54] <twnqx> jartza: use a programmable color LUT device? :D
[14:13:13] <Emil> Why the heck are avrs so cheap on digikey
[14:13:23] <Emil> "cheap" but still
[14:13:32] <Emil> compared to mouser and farnell
[14:39:26] <Arlenx> hey guys, can i write a c++ programs in atmel studio 7 or it's limited to c only?
[14:47:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> no clue.
[14:47:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> never got studio 7 to run myself.
[14:47:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> have you checked the documentation?
[14:49:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> for standard avr-gcc I believe you have to compile in C++ capability.
[14:50:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> never saw a need for C++ on a microcontroller myself....but, that's a major war
[14:56:16] <cehteh> c++ does more bad then good, even if its possible
[14:56:49] <specing> Arlenx: you can use Ada
[14:56:56] <specing> instead of dreaded C++
[14:57:13] <cehteh> lol :)
[14:57:50] <Arlenx> i like to use c++ just because it make code more orgenized then c
[14:58:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> it does not
[14:58:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> you can organize C just as well as you can C++
[14:58:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's all a matter of perception
[14:58:23] <Arlenx> i like the oop concept
[14:58:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> I did OOP before C++ existed
[14:58:35] <oscillo> nested struct my friend
[14:58:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's just a concept
[14:58:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> C++ kinda forces it.
[14:59:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> I find it makes things harder to read and understand myself.
[15:00:19] <specing> C++ is a goddamn clusterfuck
[15:00:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> but, again, it's just me.
[15:00:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> specing, but, you like Ada
[15:00:39] <specing> Lambda_Aurigae: Ada is order
[15:00:52] <specing> Ada has a lot of design put into it
[15:00:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> we were forced to use Ada back in the 90s in the military
[15:00:58] <specing> unlike C and C++
[15:01:11] <specing> Lambda_Aurigae: Ada 25 years ago and Ada today are very different
[15:01:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> convert software from C and PASCAL and FORTRAN to Ada...because it was "better"
[15:01:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> just Ada with lots of addons.
[15:02:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> but,,,to each their own.
[15:08:08] <Jartza> especially the new additions to C++ are horrible
[15:08:19] <Jartza> it's like the C++ has gotten way out of hands
[15:08:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> well, there's always C#
[15:08:43] <Jartza> and I've had "privilege" to debug some pretty horridly written C++, the horrid level was higher than is ever possible with C
[15:09:13] <Jartza> so using C++ doesn't always mean the code is organized better.
[15:09:49] <Arlenx> c for me is always spagetti code :)
[15:10:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> any programming language can be like that.
[15:10:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's all in how you code.
[15:10:53] <Arlenx> true, but i think that it's easy for me to see things in blocks, class design etc...
[15:11:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> you can do blocks in C
[15:11:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> pseudo-classes even.
[15:11:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> again, it's all how you do it.
[15:13:30] <Arlenx> another question: can i program avr chips with atmel studio 7 via arduino? i'd like to experiment with attiny...
[15:13:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> no clue.
[15:13:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm sure someone here would know.
[15:13:58] <Arlenx> ouch
[15:14:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> you would have to program the ardweeny to emulate one of the programmers that studio 7 supports.
[15:14:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> I know the ardweeny can be programmed to be an avr programmer but not sure if any of the programs for that are supported by atmel studio.
[15:15:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> never could get atmel studio 7 to install, much less run.
[15:15:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> being windows only makes it kinda useless for me.
[15:16:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> so I use command line tools.
[15:19:07] <oscillo> Arlenx you can use one arduino as a programmer, there is a dedicated firmware to achieve this in the arduino IDE. Then using avrdude you can flash attiny
[15:20:09] <Arlenx> oscillo, in that way it's like if i had a dedicated avr hardware to programm the chip?
[15:20:43] <Arlenx> i mean can i upload hex file?
[15:20:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> yes
[15:20:54] <oscillo> Arlenx : yes, you just have to pass an option (which i don t remember) to avrdude to tell that the programmer used is an arduino
[15:21:10] <Arlenx> wow this is sound great
[15:21:11] <oscillo> something like -p arduino
[15:21:22] <Arlenx> omg thanks a lot
[15:23:16] <oscillo> you are welcome :)
[15:24:09] <oscillo> Arlenx :
https://www.arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/ArduinoISP
[15:24:29] <Arlenx> thanks again.
[15:25:32] <oscillo> no prob. Never used atmel studio though, I can just tell you that with command line it s working, so it probably will with atmel studio :)
[15:26:47] <Arlenx> :)
[15:29:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> maybe microchip will convert atmel studio to multiplatform someday.
[15:31:14] <oscillo> maybe, but IDE's are evil :p
[15:31:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> true.
[15:31:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> I seldom use mplabX even except to start a project and build a makefile.
[15:32:27] <Arlenx> so in what editor you guys working with?
[15:32:31] <oscillo> you use linux for developpment?
[15:32:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> vi, kate, gedit, whatever.
[15:32:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> of course.
[15:32:47] <oscillo> Arlenx : vim + avr-gcc does the magic :)
[15:32:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> I use linux for everything but xerox manuals
[15:33:01] <Arlenx> and you syntax completion?
[15:33:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> eeww
[15:33:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> I hate editors that try to complete what I'm trying to do for me.
[15:33:29] <oscillo> I feel you
[15:33:37] <Arlenx> <-- lazy
[15:33:45] <oscillo> if you really want that, you can use YouCompleteMe
[15:34:00] <Arlenx> lol what is that?
[15:34:13] <oscillo> a plugin for me that implement auto completion
[15:34:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> I even turn off syntax highlighting...bugs me just as badly.
[15:34:18] <oscillo> *for vim sorry
[15:34:36] <oscillo> wow you are really hardcore
[15:34:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> old school
[15:34:54] <oscillo> i wouldn t feel comfortable without synthax highlighting hehe
[15:34:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> I started programming on vic-20 and apple-II
[15:35:13] <oscillo> woot I have no ideas what those are :)
[15:35:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> when they were new.
[15:35:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> 6502 processor
[15:35:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> commodore vic-20
[15:35:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> apple-II
[15:35:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> actually,,,thinking of it, I started on the Radio Shack TRS-80 with BASIC
[15:35:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> about 2 years before I ever saw an Apple-II
[15:36:05] <oscillo> 0o0o how many years of experience do you have?
[15:36:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> many.
[15:36:22] <oscillo> :)
[15:36:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> I started programming when I was 12
[15:37:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> started electronics when I was 8
[15:37:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm 49 now.
[15:37:41] <oscillo> !! Is it just your hobby or your work too? If that s not too indiscrete
[15:37:44] <Arlenx> wow so much expirience
[15:37:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> will be 50 in november.
[15:38:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> electronics and computers are both a hobby and work.
[15:38:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm a xerox field analyst.
[15:38:18] <oscillo> oh nice
[15:38:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> don't do much programming or electronic stuff directly for work but knowing both helps me understand how the systems work and how to fix them.
[15:39:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> basically, I fix copiers for a living...I'm the guy that about 40 other guys come to when they have a problem they can't figure out.
[15:40:41] <oscillo> sounds cool :) i would be one of those 40 other guys
[15:41:20] <Arlenx> i'm in the next pack of those 40 guys :)
[15:41:42] <Arlenx> i have a lot to learn
[15:42:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> I teach myself.
[15:42:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've surpassed my teachers in my job.
[15:42:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> but, I read a lot.
[15:42:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> and I understand how systems work.
[15:42:41] <Jartza> well
[15:42:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> not just electronics but "systems" in general.
[15:42:53] <Jartza> looks like I can cramp in text to my pentaveega too
[15:43:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> Jartza, sweet...but can you get a soft uart working too?
[15:43:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> do like a 2 line by 8 character display or something.
[15:43:31] <Jartza> heh
[15:43:37] <Jartza> full font won't fit
[15:44:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> oh well.
[15:44:21] <Jartza> I'm talking about something like 12 characters
[15:44:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> gotta go hang out with the wifey for a while.
[15:44:36] <Jartza> my wifeys working night shift so I have all night for this :D
[15:55:46] <rue_house> clock the pixels directly out of an external eeprom
[15:56:12] <rue_house> how much dilly dally time do you have during the retrace?
[15:56:57] * rue_house wonders if they will eventually just remove the retrace times
[16:04:45] <Jartza> https://cdn.hackaday.io/images/7619951485034497221.jpg
[16:05:23] <Jartza> rue_house: well actually, in this demo cpu time is weirdly not an issue
[16:05:27] <Jartza> flash size is
[16:05:33] <Jartza> 512 bytes
[16:05:59] <Jartza> I have a lot of dilly-dally time, I run lot of busy-loops for timings
[16:06:17] <Jartza> or just rjmp-loop waiting for hsync to happen
[16:20:37] <rue_house> so you could even preconstruct a line of video from characters and a character rom maybe....
[16:21:00] <rue_house> nice beard, why is there a 3d printed bit on the back?
[16:21:35] <rue_house> hah, running off the i2c.... what powers that?
[16:21:38] <Jartza> because 2mm thick PCB costs yuge amounts of extra compared to 1.6mm thick
[16:21:57] <rue_house> oh...
[16:21:58] <Jartza> it just takes power from USB connector
[16:22:03] <Jartza> and it's attiny5 as MCU
[16:22:04] <rue_house> ah
[16:22:05] <Jartza> no i2c
[16:22:25] <Jartza> IC2 is attiny5
[16:22:26] <rue_house> no, I got mixed up, from the video card end, they provide 5V for the i2c eeprom
[16:22:30] <Jartza> U1 is LTC1799
[16:22:41] <Jartza> oh hmm
[16:22:44] <rue_house> I thought you were zerping power from the monitor somehow
[16:22:58] <Jartza> yeah, from video card they do, but unfortunately monitors do not
[16:25:02] <rue_house> they dont have mode lines they pull up with enough current to power from ... do they?
[16:25:04] <Jartza> rue_house:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxUlhoOGVMajlhbkU/view?usp=sharing
[16:25:09] <Jartza> looks nice when it's powered :)
[16:25:27] <Jartza> rue_house: the i2c lines get powered by display adapter
[16:25:36] <Jartza> again, not the monitor
[16:25:39] <rue_house> there are older lines
[16:25:54] <rue_house> from the monitor that says roughly what type it is
[16:25:57] <rue_house> pre-i2c
[16:30:49] <Jartza> sure, but the DDC uses same pins basically
[16:31:19] <Jartza> I haven't found vga monitor anymore that had those old "key" pins so I can't check what did they provide
[17:35:25] <Jartza> Code : 244 words (488 bytes)
[17:35:32] <Jartza> starting to get bit cramped
[17:45:39] <antto> zip it
[18:07:12] <kre10s___> lol. there should be a cpu that unzips the code before it runs it.
[18:09:02] <Casper> that would be very inneficiant
[18:09:16] <kre10s___> it should have a 64 instruction ring buffer it unzips into and whenever you jump out of the ring it just halts the clock and unzips another 64.
[18:09:16] <Casper> you can't random seek in a zip file
[18:09:45] <Casper> it will pass 99% of it's time unzipping code
[18:10:37] <kre10s___> well. there is that :P. Arn't instructions optimized for size anyway? does it even compress well?
[18:12:14] <Casper> it can compress
[18:12:31] <Casper> and optimised for size do not mean it is binary optimised
[18:12:45] <Casper> there is some limitations in the code
[18:13:00] <Casper> for example: each instructions MUST be 16 bits long
[18:13:11] <Casper> i.e. 1 word
[18:13:26] <Casper> you may also have lots of stuff that repeat itself in the code
[18:14:15] <Casper> this small program...
[18:14:25] <Casper> 1424 bytes, gzipped to 1041 bytes
[19:54:37] <Jartza> hah
[19:57:26] <Jartza> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwgVABJ8DiE
[20:00:50] <oscillo> nice !
[20:00:58] <Jartza> 440 bytes now :)
[20:01:08] <Jartza> including of course the text/font
[21:39:18] <Jartza> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81nOQDrH8Cw
[22:09:22] <Jartza> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjzX7diOcP0
[22:09:25] <Jartza> I guess that's about it
