Back [04:10:49]<Emil> oscillo wat
[05:39:09]<rue_house> hmm
[05:40:58]<rue_house> it occurs to me, that if I multiply a number by two, then by 0.492, then I'v successfully multipled it by 0.984
[05:41:49]<rue_house> however it now occurs to me that if the number has much size at all, it'll overflow and screw up the result
[05:43:07]<rue_house> however, if I subtract number*.016 I'm not in danger of overflowing anyting
[06:48:14]<Emil> eh?
[06:48:37]<Emil> rue_house: are you using floats/doubles?
[06:48:50]<rue_house> nope, integer
[06:49:09]<rue_house> I wrote a program to generate the shift/add/subtract list
[06:49:21]<rue_house> based on http://www.piclist.com/techref/method/math/divconst.htm [06:50:00]<Emil> mate
[06:50:18]<rue_house>http://paste.debian.net/907320/ [06:50:20]<Emil> if you are okay with x=x-x*0.016
[06:50:23]<rue_house> for running on a tiny13
[06:50:30]<Emil> then you are also okay withx*=0.984
[06:50:48]<rue_house>http://paste.debian.net/907323/ [06:50:59]<rue_house> this is the test program, its worst error is 3
[06:51:38]<rue_house> its out by .0000--
[06:51:53]<rue_house> so your garunteed a multiply of 9.000
[06:52:18]<rue_house> er, sosry
[06:52:26]<rue_house> so your garunteed a multiply of 0.900
[06:52:32]<Emil> rue_house: really, please stop with the monologues
[06:53:42]<rue_house> di I monologueueue?
[06:53:48]<rue_house> I didn't notice
[06:53:54]<rue_house> I think you did
[06:54:00]<rue_house> damn, sorry
[06:54:05]<rue_house> quite ok, I'm going to bed for the night
[06:54:12]<rue_house> I'd like to stay up and code
[06:54:25]<rue_house> there is a laptop on the bed, how about I get you to settle for that
[06:54:33]<rue_house> whats my incentive?
[06:54:44]<rue_house> ...... I'm sure I can come up with something
[06:55:00]<rue_house> ok, I'm kinda tired anyhow
[06:55:45]<rue_shop> gnight rue
[06:56:06]<rue_shop3> gnight, dream me up a z axis would you?
[06:56:23]<specing> Like one of your french motors?
[06:57:16]<rue_house> hehe
[06:58:02]<rue_house> I'm happy with the multiplier generator code, its answer was much better than mine
[06:58:34]<rue_house> dude, give me the body, I' want to go to bed!
[09:02:08]<kre10s> I'm trying to make sense of some chips... what is the difference between ATmega168PA-15AZ and ATmega168PA-AN ? only the temperature range?
[09:05:33]<Tom_L>http://www.atmel.com/Images/DOC0478.PDF [09:06:37]<Tom_L>http://www.academia.edu/3890593/Explanation_of_Atmel_s_Part_Number_Code [09:29:14]<kre10s> thank you!
[12:01:28]<Jartza> LOL
[12:02:17]<Jartza> Code : 177 words (354 bytes)
[12:02:59]<specing> avr.zip
[12:10:33]<Jartza> nah
[12:10:40]<Jartza> just optimizing the attiny5 vga demo
[12:10:45]<Jartza> to maybe get some space for more effects
[12:50:59]<Casper> Jartza: but you're over the deadline!
[12:56:17]<kre10s> \part #avr
[12:56:24]<kre10s> balls
[13:10:43]<interrobangd> Jartza, working on attiny demo? for atmel?
[13:32:20]<Tom_L> abcminiuser, i emailed him and haven't heard back
[15:33:05]<hypermagic> Hi :)
[15:33:24]<hypermagic> abcminiuser, HappyNew Year, whats up?
[15:37:36]<Jartza> d'oh
[15:37:52]<Jartza> was going to answer interrobangd but he timed out
[15:38:15]<Jartza> Casper: well, I submitted what was there, it doesn't matter I can't still play with it :)
[15:39:44]<abcminiuser> Ahoyhoy
[15:40:00]<abcminiuser> Sorry all, went to bed at 1 but woke up at 4, just waking up properly now :P
[15:40:17]<abcminiuser> Tom_L: Typical. Ah well, at least we both did our jobs.
[15:40:27]<abcminiuser> hypermagic, ahoy! Happy new year to you too
[15:41:53]<hypermagic> abcminiuser, you happen to know about internals of atmega168 ?
[15:42:25]<abcminiuser> Err, define "internals"
[15:42:36]<abcminiuser> I never looked at the RTL of it, if that's what you mean
[15:42:41]<hypermagic> Can i use 100mV-1V external voltage reference in an ATMEGA168 device for the successive approximation 10 bit ADC to get increased resolution?
[15:43:07]<hypermagic> Just this :) i have not found answer in the manufacturer pdf datasheet
[15:44:17]<hypermagic> Suggested 1V-Vcc successive approximation ADC reference operational range, nothing else
[15:45:30]<hypermagic> I do have a hint however, if i take into account that the successive approximation ADC looks like this http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/US20130162454A1/US20130162454A1-20130627-D00003.png then we see that the comparator has certain limits that will define performance
[15:45:35]<abcminiuser> Not sure I'm afraid, that's not something I had to look at while I was at Atmel
[15:45:58]<abcminiuser> I doubt it would help much to be honest, 10 bits at 1V is pretty good for that ADC
[15:46:24]<hypermagic> but if i would use the 1.1V ref with a maximum 110mV input source than i would have 102 datapoint at 110mV approximately 1mV/step from the 10 bit ADC
[15:46:37]<hypermagic> thath is kind of useless
[15:48:11]<cehteh> there is some recommendation for the minimal reference voltage in the datasheet
[15:48:17]<hypermagic> 1V
[15:48:19]<cehteh> iirc it was around 1V but i am not sure
[15:48:29]<hypermagic> :)
[15:48:34]<cehteh> so that should answer your question
[15:48:53]<hypermagic> but it does not say what about lower
[15:49:02]<cehteh> you may amplify it before measuring, also give a higher input impedance wich is often desired
[15:49:19]<hypermagic> sure i mighht even use a 30 bit adc lol
[15:49:34]<hypermagic> that has pga and samplehold and muxes
[15:49:39]<cehteh> only that a opamp is much cheaper
[15:49:52]<cehteh> some avr's have a internal gain amplifier
[15:49:57]<cehteh> maybe you use one of those
[15:50:11]<hypermagic> for 10 bit res, 0.100mv an/out outof single supply? ;)
[15:50:21]<hypermagic> 0-100mV
[15:50:33]<hypermagic> rather an adc lel
[15:50:36]<cehteh> x20 and/or x40 iirc
[15:51:13]<cehteh> tiny25/45/85 have those, dunno which else
[15:51:21]<hypermagic> or i would have to make +-5-+-10V for an op07 and add precision resistors to x10 signal
[15:51:49]<cehteh> better trimmer and software calibration than precision resistors
[15:52:17]<hypermagic> all increasing complexity and cost
[15:52:22]<cehteh> huh?
[15:52:40]<cehteh> a 15k trimmer should be cheaper than 2 precision resistors
[15:53:07]<cehteh> well you can use 1% resistors and software calibration only if thats ok for you
[15:53:17]<hypermagic> if one could decrease the adc ref to at least 1V1/4
[15:53:32]<hypermagic> to get 4x resolution signal
[15:53:58]<cehteh> when you want 10bit and doing it correct then not so good
[15:54:17]<hypermagic> calibration is required definitely
[15:54:33]<cehteh> from what does your input signal come from?
[15:55:02]<hypermagic> transducer/sensor without amplifier
[15:55:28]<cehteh> and what do you want to measure?
[15:56:14]<cehteh> i mean transducer gives A/C right?
[15:56:14]<hypermagic> in this case temperature from -50°C to 500°C with <1C precision preferrably
[15:56:36]<cehteh> eh ok
[15:56:44]<cehteh> why dont you use a thermocouple?
[15:56:46]<hypermagic> no it is dc
[15:57:02]<hypermagic> because it outputs 10mV :)
[15:57:05]<hypermagic> :)
[15:57:26]<hypermagic> or less
[15:57:36]<cehteh> i meant with some sensing IC, there are onewire and other solutions which give you high acuracy temperature as digital output
[15:58:02]<hypermagic> damn dude, you are discouraging
[15:58:07]<cehteh> haha
[15:58:24]<hypermagic> you can buy temp control boxes for 100 euros approx
[15:58:31]<cehteh> ok other way, i heard from some people who use a stupid 1n4148 as temperature sensor :D
[15:58:50]<cehteh> for quite some range it has a reasonable linear temperature coefficient
[15:58:56]<hypermagic> yeah that would be awesome but it would not like 400°C
[15:59:19]<cehteh> it does, specs dont say so but people use it for reflow ovens
[15:59:27]<cehteh> just dont solder it
[15:59:29]<hypermagic> lol not
[15:59:43]<cehteh> 1n4148 has a glass case
[15:59:50]<hypermagic> btw did you know you can use a piece of wire to measure temp ?
[16:00:20]<cehteh> you can measure temperature with a shoestring
[16:00:24]<hypermagic> metal wire has change in resistance with temp
[16:00:42]<cehteh> its only about how much effort you put in the apparatus which converts it somehow
[16:00:55]<hypermagic> Well shoelace has length change and it would burn also at 500C
[16:01:06]<cehteh> see
[16:01:23]<cehteh> when it burns then you know its above its ignition temperature for sure :)
[16:02:12]<hypermagic> I took efforts already and implemented the Callendar–Van Dusen calculus
[16:03:04]<hypermagic> That is required to linearize the result
[16:03:16]<cehteh> anyway .. give it a test and try a very low aref voltage, maybe it works, at least with oversampling an filtering, even if that use is out of spec
[16:03:41]<cehteh> otherwise, look which AVR's have a programmable gain amplifier, that would solve your problems too
[16:03:54]<hypermagic> i could use a comparator as adc btw
[16:04:26]<hypermagic> 100ms-1s conversion is ok for temp regulation
[16:04:38]<cehteh> not as adc, but i was about suggesting to use it as trigger, that would work
[16:05:19]<cehteh> well you could create a reverence voltage by pwm, regulate that via ADC, divide and feed it to the comparator
[16:05:33]<cehteh> *but* thats going to be a lot work without much precision and benefit
[16:05:50]<hypermagic> sure that would act as a pgo :) good thought
[16:05:50]<hypermagic> PGA
[16:06:34]<hypermagic> It would not add precision, it would reduce the size of the stairsteps
[16:06:39]<hypermagic> increase resolution
[16:06:45]<hypermagic> precision is fix
[16:07:03]<cehteh> not really
[16:07:21]<hypermagic> really
[16:07:25]<hypermagic> rally
[16:07:33]<cehteh> well in theory if you can use a 16 bit timer for pwm generation *thinking*
[16:07:40]<cehteh> but you need a shitload of filtering
[16:07:50]<cehteh> makes no sense
[16:08:59]<cehteh> just aplify your input and done
[16:09:37]<hypermagic> that would require an op07 opamp
[16:09:53]<hypermagic> can you simply plug it in and use it? ;)
[16:10:32]<hypermagic> you have a single cell sithium battery
[16:12:17]<hypermagic> lm358 would work but it has an 1-10mV offset voltage error for example and it is not that precise
[16:12:40]<hypermagic> And you amplify this 10x too
[16:13:33]<cehteh> thats why i suggested to use a thermocouple and a dedicated sensing IC with digital output
[16:13:40]<cehteh> saves you a lot of such problems
[16:13:44]<hypermagic> At this point we are talking about 400°C +-10% set temperature
[16:14:58]<hypermagic> they use thermocouples above 500°C btw
[16:15:52]<hypermagic> And it is hard if possible to get 2°C precision outof thermocouple
[16:16:16]<cehteh> then search for something else
[16:16:25]<hypermagic> out of options
[16:16:53]<hypermagic> adc is the limitation
[16:18:16]<hypermagic> cehteh, btw did you see the builtin temp sensor in avr mega168pa ?
[16:18:40]<cehteh> i know that a lot avrs have one, but it is very inprecise
[16:18:44]<hypermagic> it uses an si-diode junction
[16:19:10]<hypermagic> and it would require more resolution too
[16:19:21]<cehteh> and not 400°C
[16:20:19]<cehteh>https://www.adafruit.com/product/1727 [16:20:22]<hypermagic> diode temp sensor is good upto 125°C, it may survive 150-175 for some cycles
[16:20:27]<cehteh> i was thinking about something like that
[16:21:01]<cehteh> not exactly that, but there are some variants on that theme
[16:22:52]<hypermagic> my opinion is that max and microchip creates cancer devices
[16:24:04]<cehteh> dallas has some too
[16:24:42]<hypermagic> as far as i know dallas makes rtc blocks
[16:25:07]<hypermagic> they use them on 286-386 motherboards
[16:26:20]<hypermagic> cehteh, what are you summoning?
[16:26:48]<cehteh> ?
[16:27:07]<hypermagic> create?
[16:27:18]<cehteh> nothing now
[16:27:41]<hypermagic> never wanted to make a temp controller?
[16:29:26]<hypermagic> i designed my 7seg+dp display just now, a little assembly clearup is required but almost done i think
[16:29:33]<cehteh> i did a oven controller long time ago
[16:30:02]<cehteh> epoxy curing oven, below 120°C so i could use ds18b20
[16:30:11]<hypermagic> can't decide number of digits so i choose any ;)
[16:30:18]<cehteh> cascaded regulator, its very precise
[16:31:00]<cehteh> maybe sometime i'll rewrite the code using my own OS .. if i find time
[16:31:25]<hypermagic> i can display temps using a single digit i think
[16:33:07]<hypermagic> it would notmbe that cool looking but cheap and small
[16:33:37]<hypermagic> § for what ?
[16:33:41]<hypermagic> os
[16:33:43]<cehteh> i dont have a display, just RGB led for displayin status and USB/serial for cli giving details
[16:33:56]<hypermagic> damn
[16:34:02]<hypermagic> a temp display is needed
[16:34:06]<cehteh>http://muos.pipapo.org/ [16:34:15]<hypermagic> a 7seg is cool
[16:34:22]<cehteh> well development stalled a bit, i was busy with other tihngs
[16:34:52]<cehteh> temp display in unnecessary as long the oven does what it is supposed to do
[16:35:06]<hypermagic> how set temp ? lol
[16:35:15]<cehteh> usb
[16:35:19]<hypermagic> ;/
[16:35:27]<hypermagic> Not cool
[16:35:31]<cehteh> it has programmable temperature profiles anyway,
[16:35:52]<cehteh> single temperature wont do
[16:35:57]<cehteh>http://www.pipapo.org/cfprops/cfprops.html [16:36:02]<hypermagic> hm yeah but this means that it is uleless withhout usb
[16:36:07]<hypermagic> useless
[16:36:11]<cehteh> somewhere down the page you see the laptop connected to it
[16:36:31]<cehteh> nah it can run standalone
[16:36:55]<hypermagic> what if you wanted to dry some stuff in it and can't set temp and time ?
[16:37:02]<cehteh> it has some profiles one can select with a encoder, (led blinks)
[16:37:08]<cehteh> press start and the program runs
[16:37:19]<cehteh> it has a drying program as well :D
[16:37:43]<hypermagic> i always wrote OSes, for mcu :)
[16:37:55]<cehteh>http://git.pipapo.org/?p=dinoheat;a=blob;f=Dino.h#l49 [16:37:56]<hypermagic> my firmware was the os...
[16:38:12]<cehteh> well that program is old, is still arduino code
[16:38:42]<hypermagic>http://www.pipapo.org/cfprops/cfprops.html haha that is cool i was thinking the same
[16:39:06]<hypermagic> also +1 for tnoticing the intentionally weakened stress points ;)
[16:39:14]<hypermagic> All fans you buy have it
[16:39:22]<hypermagic> and they will break easily at there
[16:39:35]<hypermagic> i broke 2 last few month
[16:40:18]<cehteh>http://www.pipapo.org/cfprops/pics/20160613_013.jpg [16:40:44]<cehteh> thats the usb console
[16:42:02]<Evidlo> I wrote this timer example for myself a few months ago for an attiny85, but it's not working. Anyone know why? https://dpaste.de/UyzB [16:44:46]<Evidlo> The pin always stays high
[16:44:51]<cehteh> why dont you just use the timer overflow isr than compmatch?
[16:45:38]<cehteh> and there are simpler ways to toggle a pin, PINB = 1<<PB1;
[16:45:39]<Evidlo> this example is specifically for compare match
[16:46:55]<cehteh> i doint have the timer modes in mind, maybe you forget some setup bits, what happens when you set OCR1A = 100
[16:47:24]<cehteh> and hey .. prescaler = 1 .. that timer runs insanely fast, are you sure your led doesnt blink at high frequnecy (invisible?)
[16:47:36]<cehteh> 16mhz/256 ...
[16:47:59]<Evidlo> the comment about prescaler is wrong because I added CS13
[16:48:14]<cehteh> what prescaler is that?
[16:48:17]<hypermagic> cehteh, you made that prop?
[16:48:18]<Evidlo> 256
[16:48:22]<cehteh> hypermagic: yes
[16:48:38]<hypermagic> you did some mistakes
[16:48:41]<Evidlo> thats probably still too fast
[16:48:50]<cehteh> Evidlo: calculates to 244Hz still yes
[16:49:02]<cehteh> hypermagic: aha ..
[16:49:05]<cehteh> but they work well :D
[16:49:07]<hypermagic> do not remove prop from form until both sides of the form is made ;)
[16:49:16]<cehteh> thats hard to do
[16:49:20]<Evidlo> yea I'm looking at it on the scope and getting about 2Khz
[16:49:22]<hypermagic> you will never put the prop back perfectly
[16:49:43]<cehteh> if i could do that way i would
[16:49:55]<hypermagic> also why gelcoat if you sand it anyway? ;)
[16:50:18]<cehteh> because i dont want to sand into the fibers
[16:50:23]<cehteh> and i need sanding for balancing
[16:50:40]<hypermagic> And only use thin layer of woven cloth, not scrap because it will cause imbalance
[16:51:10]<cehteh> scrap?
[16:51:22]<hypermagic> thot thing you show there
[16:51:42]<cehteh> have you build props so far?
[16:51:48]<hypermagic>http://www.pipapo.org/cfprops/pics/20160613_006.jpg [16:52:01]<cehteh> roving
[16:52:03]<hypermagic> cehteh, yoeh i will soon but in progress many things
[16:52:17]<cehteh> i am looking forward to yours
[16:52:17]<Evidlo> cehteh: actually, isn't it still too fast? the prescaler is set to 256 and it counts up to 255, so thats 1e6/(256^2) = 15Hz
[16:52:24]<hypermagic> i will use only solid PC now
[16:52:31]<hypermagic> it is unbreakable ;)
[16:52:42]<cehteh> ((16 * megahertz) / 256) / 256 = approx. 244.14063 Hz
[16:53:12]<Evidlo> its 1MHz clock
[16:53:17]<cehteh> one 256 for the prescaler, one 256 for the counter .. ah and you toggle that means /2
[16:53:22]<cehteh> ok
[16:53:32]<hypermagic> cehteh, do you have access to cnc mill?
[16:53:35]<cehteh> ok then it should work
[16:53:45]<Evidlo> 1e6/(256^2)/2 = 7, but im seeing about 2KHz on the scope
[16:53:46]<cehteh> hypermagic: no else things would be much simpler
[16:53:58]<cehteh> double check everytihng
[16:54:05]<hypermagic> Milling out of aluminium then pushing together melten PC sounds simple
[16:54:15]<hypermagic> molten
[16:54:37]<cehteh>https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqFxtT2WYAA8qVh.jpg [16:54:45]<cehteh> creating that frame mold by hand was pita
[16:55:31]<cehteh>https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqEFEPOWYAI8Ocm.jpg [16:55:52]<cehteh>https://twitter.com/CehtehCt scroll down there to see the whole lore
[16:56:09]<cehteh>https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnLBV9GWcAAVDK-.jpg :))
[16:56:10]<hypermagic> you can use wrap technique ;)
[16:56:36]<hypermagic> make it outof foam then wrap it in epoxy wet cloth
[16:56:47]<Evidlo> still can't figure it out. I've reprogrammed and checked all the files and such
[16:56:49]<cehteh> that wont be precise enough
[16:56:54]<hypermagic> it will
[16:57:11]<hypermagic> they make aeroplanes like this
[16:57:20]<cehteh> i know
[16:57:22]<hypermagic> Polycarbonate test ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSP-2VINGa4 [16:59:07]<Jartza> hmmh
[16:59:18]<Jartza> I might be able to cramp in scrolling wavy text in my demo :)
[16:59:30]<Jartza> if I scroll "FIREBAY" there, the text + font takes 20 bytes
[16:59:31]<Evidlo> this is what I've got: http://ix.io/1Pra [16:59:40]<Jartza> (Firebay, my last name directly translated from finnish)
[17:00:43]<Jartza> I need to make the curve milder though, as I thought I'd cramp the scrolling text inside the wavy curve
[17:02:05]<hypermagic>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b26HfPQi_a8 [17:02:59]<hypermagic> damn dumb thing to do, why break a perfect window when ho could hove put a lexan sheet under it? It would make it bullet-proof
[17:02:59]<Evidlo> cehteh: do I need to reset the interrupt flag? maybe my ISR is getting called every cycle
[17:03:08]<cehteh> no
[17:03:29]<cehteh> set orc1a to 100
[17:03:49]<cehteh> double check the code .. i'll be out
[17:05:33]<Evidlo> still the same thing
[17:06:24]<Evidlo> In fact, reducing both OCR1A and OCR1C (different values) didn't change the frequency
[17:06:41]<hypermagic> cehteh, i would have just cut that frame out of a PC sheet ;/
[17:06:50]<hypermagic> lazyness
[17:06:53]<cehteh> dont say, just do
[17:07:21]<hypermagic>https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqFxtT2WYAA8qVh.jpg this
[17:07:41]<hypermagic> it is less stiff but it will not break
[17:08:10]<mog> i have a samd11xplained board and i want to write a bootloader directly to the chip. is there something i have to do to get the chip into the right mode? holding it in reset on boot and double tapping dont seem to do it
[17:08:59]<hypermagic> cehteh, ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRt7VnMZVBw [17:09:11]<hypermagic> THE RIPPER - Quadcopter / Multi Rotor LEXAN Frame - Almost BombProof!
[17:10:24]<cehteh> too heavy, too much drag
[17:11:27]<hypermagic> He drilled holes in it :)
[17:13:21]<hypermagic> cehteh, here is what you asked for https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wc13nmS3Ck [17:17:30]<hypermagic>https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZsHtdYLuLDw/mqdefault.jpg [18:21:31]<hypermagic> cehteh, btw why 2 blades per prop, wouldn't 1 be easier? ;)
[18:21:58]<hypermagic> Single blade propeller multirotor test 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XEWwtOVAaU [18:22:05]<cehteh> more efficient for sure, but pita to balance and less kick
[18:22:07]<hypermagic> it is more efficient too
[18:22:17]<cehteh> yes but not so agile
[18:22:26]<cehteh> 2 blade is the most agile
[18:22:37]<cehteh> that copter goes 100mph
[18:22:45]<hypermagic> check this out then https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD9juUWL5iU [18:23:42]<cehteh> now show me real flying :D
[18:24:15]<hypermagic> :)
[18:25:03]<hypermagic> i remember pros used single blade in aeroplanes that go real fast cant show it yet though
[18:25:47]<hypermagic> it is actually smoother if the rotor turns fast
[18:25:54]<cehteh> there are single wing airplanes too :D
[18:25:58]<hypermagic> haha
[18:26:18]<hypermagic> then a single blade rotor is a must for it
[21:04:02]<Tom_shop> zlog,
[21:04:37]<Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: actually I _COULD_ use the pin to read input too :P
[21:04:50]<carabia> first avr thing for me in ages. figured i don't wanna drop an arm in this and i found an old usbasp. desoldered the usb and the 2x5 header and this will fit right in an old dvd remote i also found.
[21:04:54]<Lambda_Aurigae> Jartza, go for it!
[21:05:01]<Jartza> what on earth to read
[21:05:01]<Lambda_Aurigae> make a side scroller jumping game!
[21:05:03]<Lambda_Aurigae> one button input.
[21:05:05]<Jartza> lol
[21:05:15]<Lambda_Aurigae> just jump.
[21:05:31]<Lambda_Aurigae> if you jump and catch the thingie going by in the air you get a point.
[21:05:34]<Lambda_Aurigae> or something like that.
[21:13:51]<Lambda_Aurigae> if it actually did something,,,like a super simple game,,,it would move up the list for the contest I'm sure.
[21:36:42]<Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: sure, just that the deadline went already
[21:36:50]<Jartza> so I'm in with that demo :P
[21:37:00]<Lambda_Aurigae> oh well..
[21:37:04]<Lambda_Aurigae> c'est la mort.
[21:37:11]<Jartza> yeah
[21:37:28]<Jartza> although. I participated just for fun.
[21:37:36]<Jartza> I don't really need 4th 3d-printer ;)
[21:38:11]<Jartza> was still fun and that "base" for the vga demo was cooking there for long time
[21:38:30]<Jartza> and I'm still free to do something more with it, I already took a liberty of optimizing it a bit
[21:38:40]<Jartza> it's now 356 bytes (the fast version)
[21:38:46]<Jartza> so room for improvement :)
[21:39:11]<Lambda_Aurigae> send it to me!
[21:42:44]<Jartza> the link to code is in the page
[21:42:51]<Jartza>https://bitbucket.org/jartza/pentaveega [21:42:52]<Jartza> :)
[21:42:56]<carabia> oh wooow
[21:43:04]<Jartza> the improved version is in level_up -branch
[21:43:37]<Jartza> => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8gVBFvt63E [21:44:17]<carabia> i figured the code would be for a power toggle, apparently there's a separate one for on and off.
[21:44:28]<hypermagic> Jartza, LPC1763FBD100 get one now ;>>
[21:45:05]<hypermagic>http://www.nxp.com/products/microcontrollers-and-processors/arm-processors/lpc-cortex-m-mcus/lpc1700-cortex-m3/256kb-flash-64kb-sram-no-can-lqfp100-package:LPC1763FBD100 [21:45:07]<Lambda_Aurigae> 256K flash and 64K sram?!?!
[21:45:14]<Lambda_Aurigae> hell, he wouldn't know what to do with all that.
[21:45:21]<Lambda_Aurigae> he can't write anything over 8K.
[21:45:25]<hypermagic> 10-bit Digital/Analog Converter (DAC) with dedicated conversion timer and DMA
[21:45:27]<hypermagic> :)
[21:45:28]<Lambda_Aurigae> and has no clue what real sram is.
[21:45:50]<Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: LOL
[21:46:03]<Jartza> that's actually partly true
[21:46:06]<hypermagic> ARM Cortex-M3 processor, running at frequencies of up to 100 MHz
[21:46:14]<Jartza> 256k... what to fill that with?
[21:46:16]<hypermagic> Eight channel General Purpose DMA controller
[21:46:24]<hypermagic> video ram lol
[21:46:25]<Lambda_Aurigae> Jartza, imagine all the fonts you could put in there!
[21:46:35]<carabia> fuck nxp.
[21:46:59]<Jartza> you mean qualcomm?
[21:47:08]<carabia> oh yes, forgot that.
[21:47:26]<carabia> i don't give enough shit about nxp so i'd actually remember acquisitions or mergers or whatever the hell
[21:47:32]<carabia> shits, rather
[21:48:12]<Jartza> well, I've dag quite deep into some kinetis products
[21:48:25]<carabia> and you were left scarred
[21:48:32]<carabia> don't do that, kids
[21:48:50]<Jartza> that's why I ended up making GPU from 6-pin chip with 32 bytes of ram
[21:49:11]<hypermagic> you can do this but why?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFmC7hd1hno [21:49:26]<Jartza> after all this acquisition hornyness, it's still pretty much motorola inside
[21:49:33]<carabia> some might say it's a bit of a stretch to call this a gpu
[21:49:41]<carabia> but alright, i'll give you the benefit of the doubt
[21:49:46]<Jartza> they just couldn't lock the old motorola-bearded guys to basement well enough
[21:50:03]<Jartza> well. it processes graphics.
[21:50:10]<Jartza> not much of it, but still.
[21:50:26]<carabia> ...
[21:50:42]<hypermagic> Jartza, we could work in team and make fpga vidoe card? ;>
[21:50:52]<carabia> Lambda_Aurigae: did you figure out your flash sizes yet and so on?
[21:50:54]<Jartza> I know about zero about fpga
[21:51:20]<carabia> brb anyway.
[21:51:38]<hypermagic> Think about it as a bag full of cmos logic gate chips
[21:51:40]<Lambda_Aurigae> carabia, not yet....got pulled away and haven't gotten back to it.
[21:52:01]<Jartza> mmmmh
[21:52:11]<Jartza> maybe I should get bag full of cmos logic gate chips
[21:52:16]<Jartza> that sounds like fun
[21:52:38]<hypermagic> Jartza, FPGA is short for Field Programmable Gate array, you program logic functions in it that work parallel
[21:53:01]<Jartza> then I can make my own 8-bit processor with 512 bytes of flash and few bytes of ram and make it output VGA
[21:53:04]<Jartza> nnnnice
[21:53:08]<hypermagic> one tiny chip replaces thousands of cmos gates
[21:53:14]<Jartza> hypermagic: well I know what FPGA is, sure.
[21:53:27]<Jartza> but it's like... I've never inhaled it
[21:55:00]<hypermagic> you really have 2 choices, xilinx or altera http://uk.farnell.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?pageSize=25&st=fpga&catalogId=15001&categoryId=700000004167&langId=44&storeId=10151 [21:55:22]<hypermagic> but che arm i suggested is much more than your avr ;)
[21:55:49]<hypermagic> LPC1763FBD100 it is not even expensive
[21:55:50]<Lambda_Aurigae> hypermagic, the whole idea is,,,less is more.
[21:56:58]<hypermagic> i would want more than 16 color vga if i were you ;)
[21:57:20]<Jartza> just go for it
[21:57:20]<Lambda_Aurigae> but you aren't me.
[21:57:30]<Jartza> nor me
[21:57:33]<Lambda_Aurigae> and I use the single chip version of the octapentaveega
[21:57:41]<Lambda_Aurigae> giving me 2 colors...black AND white
[21:57:45]<hypermagic> rotate 3d graphics on screen and effects
[21:57:57]<Jartza> hypermagic: it's just... I've done embedded programming as a work for >10 years
[21:58:02]<Lambda_Aurigae> if I want that I use a PC...or an rPI or similar.
[21:58:02]<hypermagic> a 386 could do that ;P
[21:58:21]<Jartza> and yes. lot of arm-chips too, including cortex m -series as well
[21:58:23]<hypermagic> oh arm is better than an old pc
[22:00:29]<Lambda_Aurigae> some of us still like the old 8-bit world.
[22:00:36]<Jartza> but as a hobby... AVR is very nice
[22:00:36]<Jartza> and pushing the boundaries of small chips
[22:00:36]<Jartza> I don't do these to be any way useful, but because they are fun
[22:00:36]<Jartza> and something completely different, than work-related stuff
[22:01:04]<Jartza> I like it a lot because it's just so simple
[22:01:13]<Jartza> and I know the AVR so well
[22:01:37]<Jartza> well... I do know a lot of different ARM chips too, but it's still much more different. AVR is simple
[22:01:40]<hypermagic> i like avr because simplicity but it has limitations
[22:01:48]<Jartza> sure
[22:01:49]<Lambda_Aurigae> as does everything.
[22:01:55]<Jartza> I like to show middle finger to those limitations
[22:01:56]<Jartza> :)
[22:02:01]<Lambda_Aurigae> hell, I still program on my old vic-20 for the fun of it.
[22:02:10]<Tom_L> ur nutz
[22:02:21]<hypermagic> a 32 bit 100MHz arm is a bit more powerful than an 8 bit 2MHz avr
[22:02:28]<Lambda_Aurigae> Tom_L, of course.
[22:02:36]<Lambda_Aurigae> hypermagic, of course it is.
[22:02:41]<Lambda_Aurigae> but much more complex
[22:02:43]<carabia> hypermagic: you're missing the whole fucking point
[22:02:55]<carabia> Lambda_Aurigae: that's irrelevant
[22:03:07]<Lambda_Aurigae> I usually run my AVR at 20MHz, but, that's me.
[22:03:10]<hypermagic> and for example many things require 16-32 bit or even larger variables
[22:03:20]<carabia> ??
[22:03:26]<Lambda_Aurigae> hypermagic, umm...you can do 16 and 32 bit variables on an 8bit avr.
[22:03:33]<Lambda_Aurigae> slower, granted, but,,
[22:03:55]<hypermagic> i usually run my avr at internal 8Mhz instead of 20MHz max with external quartz
[22:04:07]<Jartza> my vga code also needs 16-bit variables
[22:04:11]<hypermagic> Lambda_Aurigae, yes but slowly
[22:04:15]<Jartza> like the vertical counter
[22:04:20]<Jartza> there's more than 256 lines there
[22:04:28]<Jartza> problem? nah.
[22:04:45]<Lambda_Aurigae> hypermagic, the point is, not everything needs a 100MHz ARM processor.
[22:04:49]<cehteh> but then a 9 bit counter would suffice
[22:04:56]<hypermagic> Lambda_Aurigae, ofc
[22:04:59]<Lambda_Aurigae> hell, we landed on the moon with a processor less powerful than an attiny5.
[22:05:05]<cehteh> avr's have a lot 9 bit counters :D
[22:05:16]<Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: I would love to get my hands on that computer and make it do vga
[22:05:18]<Jartza> LOL
[22:05:22]<hypermagic> flashing leds for example :) and controlling temperature, steppers
[22:05:40]<hypermagic> but i do have need for more speed
[22:05:59]<Lambda_Aurigae> good for you.
[22:06:12]<Lambda_Aurigae> I do too sometimes...hence my usage of pic32 and learning stm32 chips.
[22:06:39]<Lambda_Aurigae> and trying to figure out how to bare metal program old cellphones...but that's a long term goal.
[22:06:53]<hypermagic> Lambda_Aurigae, you dont like nxp either?
[22:07:04]<Lambda_Aurigae> never used one.
[22:07:09]<carabia> nxp is shit. tell me hypermagic what have you done with nxp arms?
[22:07:19]<carabia> everything they do is shit
[22:07:22]<carabia> and then some more shit
[22:07:29]<hypermagic> first i wanted to atmel arm but i dislike the new junk
[22:07:31]<Lambda_Aurigae> stm32 boards I have are fairly cheap and fairly powerful.
[22:07:43]<carabia> it's not that nxps boards are more expensive
[22:07:55]<Lambda_Aurigae> but this is what I have.
[22:08:00]<Lambda_Aurigae> just never got any nxp devices.
[22:08:09]<hypermagic> i don't buy a board only the chips
[22:08:11]<carabia> its not that they aren't "as powerful", though st's line goes up to cm7, nxp doesn't have those, I believe.
[22:08:19]<carabia> which is like a cm4 on roids
[22:08:21]<hypermagic> boards i make
[22:08:47]<Lambda_Aurigae> I can do that too..just choose not to at the moment.
[22:08:54]<carabia> it's that nxps support to complement the products are crap
[22:09:04]<carabia> hypermagic: so what have you made?
[22:09:25]<hypermagic> only atmel avr yet
[22:09:31]<carabia> okay, gotcha.
[22:09:36]<Jartza> hypermagic: https://github.com/rakettitiede/octapentaveega [22:09:39]<Jartza> have you seen that? :)
[22:09:46]<hypermagic> but i queued a few nxp arms
[22:09:47]<Lambda_Aurigae> so far the pic32mx270f256b at 50MHz is more than powerful enough for anything I do.
[22:09:52]<carabia> Lambda_Aurigae: ^QED.
[22:09:58]<hypermagic> Jartza, nah ;)
[22:10:15]<carabia> (not the pic comment, but my earlier remark.)
[22:10:25]<Jartza> hypermagic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1QWNDck0yU [22:11:23]<carabia> so, not to be even a bigger dick or anything, hypermagic do tell how have you reached this conclusion for the /NEED FOR SPEED/
[22:11:25]<hypermagic> Jartza, years ago i grabbed my 8x8 bios font from my pc and started to render them on graphic screen :)
[22:12:24]<carabia> not that i wouldn't be all-go for cm. i'm just curious
[22:12:30]<hypermagic> carabia, i wasn't, i coded years on pc and i am kind of used to using larger variables anyway
[22:12:52]<carabia> larger - fucking - variables. AW YISS.
[22:12:58]<hypermagic> i also like precision even if it is unnecessary
[22:13:01]<Lambda_Aurigae> hypermagic, I started on 8bit processors in the commodore and apple-2 days...
[22:13:19]<Lambda_Aurigae> x86 PC was years down the road.
[22:13:24]<carabia> hypermagic: "precision"?
[22:13:32]<hypermagic> i will not create jagged edged circles if i can do it smooth
[22:13:43]<carabia> wtf does this have to do with anything
[22:13:47]<Lambda_Aurigae> there's still jagged edges...they are just small.
[22:14:10]<Lambda_Aurigae> to get rid of the jagged edges you have to go full analog.
[22:14:10]<hypermagic> ofc
[22:14:48]<carabia> :D
[22:14:58]<hypermagic> Lambda_Aurigae, ;)
[22:15:05]<hypermagic> i would, really
[22:15:05]<carabia> jesus h christ
[22:15:10]<carabia> i'm sure you would
[22:15:14]<Lambda_Aurigae> hehe.
[22:15:17]<Jartza> jut do it
[22:15:28]<hypermagic> but there be bits in my mcu :(
[22:15:34]<Lambda_Aurigae> analog computers for the win! at least for the win on battleship targeting computers.
[22:15:37]<Jartza> build an analog one
[22:15:43]<hypermagic> so i need more to make those steps smaller ;<
[22:15:56]<carabia> if you want to do your fancy graphics well then bin the puny cm3 and get an st cm7 with the dma2d driver
[22:16:16]<carabia> ...for when the need for speed is real.
[22:16:31]<carabia> even then you only get a single-precision fpu
[22:16:46]<carabia> you know, bad for /LARGE VARIABLES/
[22:16:48]<hypermagic> fpu is a joke too ;/
[22:16:58]<carabia> and precision, you know
[22:17:04]<hypermagic> i would rather a 128.128 bit fixed point
[22:17:23]<Lambda_Aurigae> wouldn't we all?
[22:17:53]<carabia> possibly you want a ca to blink leds
[22:18:12]<carabia> possibly, x86
[22:18:15]<Lambda_Aurigae> I want a TI-980B with all the blinky lights and switches intact!
[22:18:15]<hypermagic> for blinking leds i would settle down for 64.64 bit fixpoint math
[22:18:43]<carabia> i for one will be delighted to see your arm troubles
[22:18:51]<hypermagic> :)
[22:20:30]<carabia> and i think i'll give up on the ir tx for tonight. the power off code isn't right or them my mark/space length is incorrect. For all I know the header could be wrong too as the tv likes responding to just about any shit thrown at it @ 40khz
[22:20:38]<carabia> them, then
[22:20:53]<Lambda_Aurigae> have you tried 38KHz?
[22:21:04]<carabia> no
[22:21:05]<Lambda_Aurigae> other stuff in the panasonic world seems to be all 38.
[22:21:15]<hypermagic> i tell you some calculus intensive applications: abs brake, regenerative srm/bldc/induction motor controller
[22:21:44]<carabia> oh jesus fuck how i hate googloids
[22:21:52]<Lambda_Aurigae> hypermagic, orbital dynamics and GPS onboard calculation systems....all done on the GPS satellites with 8bit processors...and some 4bit processors.
[22:21:56]<hypermagic> i estimated that i need at least that 100MHz nxp arm for my IM DTC controller
[22:22:07]<Lambda_Aurigae> you want precision...that's precision.
[22:22:56]<Lambda_Aurigae> and nothing onboard a GPS satellite runs over 50MHz beyond the main clock unit and the RF transmitters.
[22:23:23]<Lambda_Aurigae> hell, most of the processors onboard GPS sats run less than 8MHz.
[22:23:30]<hypermagic> Lambda_Aurigae, i meant precision with performance
[22:23:59]<Lambda_Aurigae> you must be a windows programmer.
[22:24:24]<hypermagic> i can't simply place statistic counters 32-64 bit in my codes either on 8MHz 8 bit avr
[22:25:09]<Lambda_Aurigae> and it's waaay past my bedtime.
[22:25:09]<hypermagic> no i never programmed on that shit
[22:25:13]<Lambda_Aurigae> so, nighters all.
[22:25:16]<carabia> the gps shit's "radiation hardened", yea?
[22:25:22]<Lambda_Aurigae> yeah...and then some.
[22:25:39]<carabia> don't think there even exists chips that run high clocks specced for that
[22:25:57]<carabia> well, think you can get some up to 200 MHz in spec
[22:26:00]<hypermagic> i have pcs that would work in space :P
[22:26:18]<Lambda_Aurigae>http://www.dtic.mil/descriptivesum/Y2013/AirForce/stamped/0305913F_7_PB_2013.pdf [22:26:24]<hypermagic> compaq armada 233MHz pentium pro
[22:26:27]<Lambda_Aurigae> that kinda describes the package I worked with..
[22:26:43]<Lambda_Aurigae> the NDS package onboard the GPS satellites.
[22:26:50]<Lambda_Aurigae> no details on processor and stuff,,,but,,,
[22:26:55]<Lambda_Aurigae> a fun read...at least for me.
[22:27:16]<carabia> this seems like appropriations or something...
[22:27:41]<hypermagic> Lambda_Aurigae, i had to be careful not to overload my mcu with debug stuff when i was searching for problems ;<
[22:28:09]<carabia> hypermagic: are you like, a bit funny in the head?
[22:28:20]<carabia> in a particularly bad way?
[22:28:26]<Lambda_Aurigae> carabia, no, that's me....
[22:28:46]<Lambda_Aurigae> but I stopped arguing with the voices about two years ago...I just go with the flow now.
[22:28:49]<Lambda_Aurigae> anyhow,,,nighters.
[22:29:01]<carabia> Lambda_Aurigae: perhaps that's the difference between the two of you,t hen
[22:29:06]<hypermagic> the voices said im normal.
[22:29:31]<Lambda_Aurigae> normal is a setting on my clothes dryer........... . . .
[22:33:46]<hypermagic> carabia, last year i made a ps/2 keyboard on atmega
[22:34:06]<hypermagic> i had to code the protocol
[22:34:32]<carabia> last year i wasn't interested, rumor has it the same might be true for this year, too
[22:34:59]<carabia> do you get the hint?
[22:35:01]<hypermagic> this year i was making stuff not on mcu
[22:37:05]<hypermagic> so you are into hacking ir remote
[22:37:32]<hypermagic> i would probably record from a transmitter.
[22:38:13]<hypermagic> this is how programable ir remotes work, some even have many preprogrammed remote codes.
[22:39:32]<carabia> how do you get this good? can you share some tips?
[22:39:37]<hypermagic> Jartza, cool stuff, do it in 1280x1024 24 bit ;) and add effects https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1QWNDck0yU [22:39:50]<hypermagic> carabia, i don't eat snails
10:40 hypermagic: no you couldn't
10:41 carabia: okay, so as you're one of the most ignorant persons i've ever seen, i'll just want to clarify my stand here
10:43 carabia: a) i don't have the fucking remote b) i know how the ir protocol works, but specifics vary, the mark length and the codes themselves c) the unit is old, protocol specific documentation is flaky at best, d) i have no further intentions of communicating with you so if you'd do me the favor and not address me anymore
10:43 carabia: well, and the carrier freq varies also, of course.
10:44 carabia: can we not reach an agreement on all of these points?
10:44 carabia: s/not/now
10:44 hypermagic: Jartza, https://github.com/rakettitiede/octapentaveega why 3 tiny for 3 colors? ;/
10:44 hypermagic: carabia, give a reason why should i care
10:45 carabia: cause you're an idiot
10:45 carabia: bye now
10:45 hypermagic: thought so
10:46 hypermagic: *add dramatic music here*
