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[05:18:45] <skz81> Jartza, I though of you when I saw this :
[05:18:48] <skz81> https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-5pcs-VGA-color-bar-generator-LCD-screen-test-module-15-different-signals-Electronic-Component/1000001826166.html?scm=1007.13339.60109.0&pvid=b9e50007-70bc-4bc1-82f0-39231ab7350b&tpp=1
[05:21:58] <skz81> hum ok, it's not the same thing at all, see the description / flow chart here :
[05:21:59] <skz81> https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-VGA-signal-generator-color-bar-generator-LCD-Tester/32398112346.html?scm=1007.13339.33317.0&pvid=da8b19eb-1691-4934-83c3-317aea6f796d&tpp=1
[10:32:25] <carabia> Lambda_Aurigae: probably me, why?
[10:51:25] <carabia> Lambda_Aurigae: personally i like st's tools more. The hal-libs are almost asspain-free to prototype quick, and their graphical init tool is adequate (although it has some caveats) to get started with, before you're more familiar with the clock and peripheral registers
[10:57:54] <carabia> though you could always use cmsis. But, you gotta take a pick and i figured i might aswell go with st mostly.
[11:05:26] <carabia> and they you can choose to go full commie and use the arm gnu toolchain with openocd and gdb, or lay down the $$ and get keil/iar/crossworks, pricing high to low in that order
[11:06:00] <carabia> obviously go full commie, cause then you can use ada
[15:17:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> carabia, I bought a couple of st32 bluepill clones and an st-link on amazon this morning.
[15:17:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> should be here friday.
[15:18:44] <Vikinger> when i create a variable inside a function once i leave the function is the memory used in the variable freed ?
[15:19:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> yes
[15:19:54] <bss36504> perhaps not immediately "freed", per se, but it enables that address to be used by another variable.
[15:19:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> unless you make it static
[15:20:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> or the function is static
[15:20:30] <bss36504> A static function simply confines the scope of the function to that compilation unit
[15:20:43] <bss36504> different meanings for the static keyword based on context
[15:20:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> aahh..yes...means different things
[15:20:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> my screwup there.
[15:20:53] <bss36504> callable-scope*
[15:20:56] <bss36504> no problem
[15:20:57] <bss36504> :)
[15:20:58] <Vikinger> ok
[15:21:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> so,,,make the variable static and it stays.
[15:21:13] <Vikinger> got it
[15:21:51] <bss36504> You may also be tempted to make it global, which technically would achieve the same thing (persistence), but you should always confine the scope of your variables as much as possible.
[15:22:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> one thing about global variables is they don't get recreated every time you enter the function(nor do static inside the function) which should speed things a little.
[15:23:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> not sure but I bet there is some savings on using one global variable inside of 12 different functions and just initializing it in each function vs creating a variable inside each function.....
[15:23:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> that's not good programming practice though.
[15:23:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> </ramble>
[15:24:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> now I'm gonna have to test that theory.
[15:24:06] <bss36504> Yeah I suppose that's a good thought....
[15:24:28] <Vikinger> but you want sometimes global variables to save stuff for example
[15:24:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> if you are looking at memory fragmentation and/or getting rid of a few instructions.
[15:24:30] <Vikinger> right ?
[15:24:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> ummm.
[15:24:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> kindasortamaybenotreallybutyeah
[15:24:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> depends on who you talk to.
[15:25:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> global variables are good for that
[15:25:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> but....global variables are bad...according to most programming instructors.
[15:25:27] <bss36504> IMO, limit the scope of the variables as much as possible. If you need a global, that's fine, but don't just make things global all willy-nilly
[15:25:41] <bss36504> you need them if you want any meaningful data extracted from an ISR, for example
[15:25:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's like the old "goto" argument.
[15:25:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> real programmers don't use "goto"
[15:25:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> vs
[15:26:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> real programmers know when to use "goto"
[15:26:18] <bss36504> But generally there are ways to structure your program so that the sort of "linear path" doesnt rely on globals.
[15:26:29] <learath> Yeah
[15:26:49] <bss36504> "real programmers know when to use "goto" " --> Never.
[15:26:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> it is all based on what works best for your project at the time far as I'm concerned.
[15:27:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> use "goto" when you don't have a while(1) command available.
[15:27:42] <bss36504> When is that?
[15:28:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> when programming in most versions of BASIC?
[15:28:09] <bss36504> oy, i suppose
[15:28:19] <bss36504> I was limiting my thoughts to avr languages haha
[15:28:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have BASIC for avr!
[15:28:38] <learath> why?
[15:28:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> I also have a mostly working C interpreter for AVR
[15:28:41] <theBear> lol, i hope yer all not still going from me making a one-liner joke-comment in bad taste a few days ago :-)
[15:28:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> for the fun of it.
[15:29:00] <bss36504> guess i missed that one, theBear
[15:29:06] <bss36504> learath: why what?
[15:29:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> theBear, we will hold it against you for 8 years, 11 months, 7 days, 3 hours, 16 minutes
[15:29:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> give or take a decade.
[15:29:15] <learath> bss36504: why have basic for avr
[15:29:23] <bss36504> oh beats me
[15:29:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> my BASIC for avr is part of a retro computer build I'm doing for the fun of it...attempting to duplicate the vic-20 more or less.
[15:30:00] <bss36504> Probably because Lambda_Aurigae was bored one afternoon...
[15:30:03] <theBear> my first experience of avr/any micro remotely affordable (eff basic stamps, and eff the company that priced them when noone else made micros for another 10 years !) was bascom avr basic as i recall, way waaay back, before avr-gcc was even a publicised IDEA
[15:30:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> wasn't bascom a compiled basic though?
[15:30:59] <theBear> sure, after not doing asm for 10+ years i was hand-picking thru a foreign set of opcodes/compiled output cos it wasn't the most 100% bugfree compiler, but it was enough to tell me the world had changed
[15:31:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> bss36504, I've been doing my best to reverse engineer the whole vic-20 basic rom and rewrite it for the AVR
[15:31:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> mostly as a relaxation exercise.
[15:31:51] <theBear> yeah, bascom was compiled, i was just side-noting that basic stamps and their pricing set any of us non-millionaire hobbiests back 10 years give or take, until the wonderful atmel gave us the glory of 90s???? series !!
[15:32:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> theBear, yeah..had one basic stamp years back.
[15:32:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> then I got some pic samples.
[15:32:26] <theBear> huzzah for atmel, and may their true self rest in peace and not be too horribly desecrated as a recent corpse
[15:32:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> then avr samples
[15:32:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> then I really went to town.
[15:33:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> theBear, so far microchip isn't doing too bad. that new hybrid attiny chip has some nifty microchip bits wrapped around the avr core.
[15:34:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> theBear, and what was your horrid bad taste joke? I think we all missed it and need a refresher.
[15:35:01] <bss36504> Lambda_Aurigae: Thats pretty cool. And are you referring to the Attiny817?
[15:35:10] <bss36504> Saw it pop up on digikey, didnt click until now
[15:35:44] <bss36504> I guess the product nomenclature is Attiny[4|8]1x
[15:36:37] <bss36504> Oh wow it has an event system. Very chic
[15:36:57] <theBear> mmm, i dunno what kinda spending money you had in the 90s, but i was still in primary school when i learned my motorola-land asm, dabbled in z80 next i think, just to check everything was more or less the same kinda deal that low down, but effed if i had the kinda money for a stamp, or even saw that much money OVER a whole year, total, gross, and you sure don't hand-make more than one or two z80 or 6800/68000 "computers" before it gets REAL old, so many eff
[15:36:57] <theBear> chips, buses as wide as your veroboards <grin> but then avrs, waaay under 10 bucks a chip from day 1, all you need is a few resistors IF you were a sissy and scared about yer parport/multi-io card (back then they were tough, they could probly smoke an avr (literally) before they even thought about blowing their output drivers <grin>) a couple caps, crystal, 7805 or so, bing bang bong, you were programming things without screens and keyboards and 10 or 15kg
[15:36:58] <theBear> steel to case them all in, at home, that you built yourself, and were as powerful as the only computer you had ACCESS to, letalone owned, just 10 or 15 years earlier :)
[15:37:52] <theBear> Lambda_Aurigae, i dunno, but it was only bad taste in the sense that it was a 50/50 gonna-trigger-goto-wars , or ya know, since we all civilised persons, goto-lengthy-discussions, which is irresponsible in any context this century <grin>
[15:38:17] <bss36504> Oh please then, dont repeat it haha
[15:45:31] <theBear> like i said when i was just glancing in passing, it looked like there was no need and it had kept going while i was elsewhere for a day or two <grin>
[15:46:11] <bss36504> I'm killing another 45 minutes before I'm off work for 11 days.
[15:46:27] <bss36504> so any lively discussion is welcome
[15:47:10] <carabia> Lambda_Aurigae: good boy
[15:48:02] <bss36504> Anybody in here tinkered with the Edison yet? I had mine running, got an LED blinking and then it promptly decided it was no longer going to boot or even enumerate. Fuckin piece of junk.
[15:48:30] <bss36504> Took me forever to dip my toes into this whole "embedded linux" think and i get burned
[15:48:31] <carabia> i don't thinker with the dead
[15:48:38] <carabia> tinker, even
[15:48:43] <bss36504> haha
[15:49:00] <bss36504> yeah, support, community and documentation are....lacking to say the least
[15:50:31] <carabia> however, as they say, that is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die
[15:51:04] <bss36504> 2deep4me, carabia
[15:56:34] <bss36504> I was thinking of using my edison for my reflow oven and just host a webpage with all the controls and temperature data (cause wtf else was I going to use it for). So now that that's out, i guess I'll just go back to my old design with some modifications.
[16:01:26] <Jartza> allo
[16:12:34] <carabia> bss36504: could you connect it to the internet of thongs so i could reflow my shit in your oven?
[16:15:25] <bss36504> Yeah, then I'll just digitize it and send it back
[16:15:42] <bss36504> Or maybe just flush it to you via the Internet of Toilets
[16:15:50] <carabia> :D
[16:16:51] <bss36504> In all likelihood at this point I'll slap an ESP8266 on it and tinker with that. Maybe just write a java program with a gui to run this thing.
[16:17:15] <bss36504> But first and foremost, gotta get the main board in place and go from there. On board controls too
[16:18:08] <carabia> hmm
[16:19:10] <carabia> not to be a dick about it, but i see no real benefit in having your reflow oven connected to the internets
[16:19:41] <carabia> having it connected to anything, really, because (i would assume) that you still physically have to load the board into it
[16:20:44] <carabia> though, it could be handy to upload reflow profiles on the fly but then again i'm not sure how many you're going to end up with
[16:23:05] <carabia> then again i guess i'm kind of oldschool cause i see no real application in e.g. "automating" home lighting either, which seems to be of increasing popularity
[16:24:03] <carabia> if anything i wouldn't have it connected in the internet, perhaps link it in like ANT or something, even then, i have no need to control the lights of rooms i am not in. And having an "app" has no appeal for me
[16:24:09] <carabia> connected to, rather
[16:24:42] <carabia> internet of toilets still seems the most reasonable application to me.
[16:25:58] <bss36504> Honestly I'm just trying to shoe-horn the IoT nonsense into this application so that if I ever get contracted to work on this stuff I can nod and say "yeah i know about IoT and the Cloud"
[16:26:02] <carabia> functionality for flushing populated pcbs seems to be of "great extra value", as the marketing dept would put it
[16:26:17] <bss36504> Anyway chaps, off for a while. See you all next year! Happy holidays
[16:26:41] <carabia> merry christmas and a happy new year \o
[16:38:38] <carabia> oh shit Vikinger what's cooking you scandi-fag?
[16:39:23] <carabia> (scandinavian people sound more or less faggots due to their faggy accents, my apologies but this is the truth)
[16:43:54] <carabia> i resurrected this old atom laptop to be used. it's kind of a sketchy thing having powered it through those cheapo probe clips to the battery bay and running the os off a usb stick :)
[16:51:07] <Vikinger> be carefull
[16:51:16] <Vikinger> or ill start making questions
[16:51:19] <Vikinger> muhahaha
[16:52:21] <Vikinger> im actually pulling an elegant way of turning on led's with my charlieplex set up so that some fags that like elegant stuff dont get so upset
[16:53:37] <carabia> you do, however, have to keep in mind that old vice of software "engineers" and people fresh outta college. There's always someone who's smarter than you, i.e. does it more elegantly
[16:54:41] <Vikinger> yes thats fine
[16:55:11] <Vikinger> ill show you when im finish, so you dont get so upset
[16:55:15] <Vikinger> ;)
[16:59:07] <carabia> i'm going to get the boot on ##c :)
[17:00:41] <specing> come join #ada when you do
[17:03:35] <carabia> didn't stick around to wait for it
[17:24:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> back
[17:24:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> bss36504, yeah, that was the chip.
[17:27:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> theBear, in the late 90s I was single(divorced) and gainfully employed so could buy toys.
[17:33:41] <theBear> yeah, i heard things can be a bit tight after all that, but i bet it still more than i could convince my mum to call pocket money or early christmas presents <grin> sif i was gonna waste a early christmas rare-supertreat on a little chip that could only do basic the same as the computer we already been longterm borrowed from a uni comp. prof that was a old family friend, only the computer had a big keyboard and screen and stuff, this was just a chip :)
[18:02:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> guessing I'm just a little older than you.
[18:04:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> my parents bought me my first computer, a vic-20, when I was in highschool....was a christmas present actually.
[18:05:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> that was about the only technology thing they ever bought me...everything else I bought or scavenged myself from there on.
[18:10:01] <Vikinger> carabia how do i swap nibbles ?
[18:17:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> Vikinger, in what language?
[18:17:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> because there is an assembly command, SWAP, that does just that.
[18:17:44] <Vikinger> avr-gcc
[18:18:13] <Vikinger> led = (led & 0xF0) >> 4
[18:18:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> you could do it with inline assembly and the SWAP command,,,,well,,it can be done with that.
[18:18:24] <Vikinger> never mind, this is what i wanted
[18:19:06] <Vikinger> humm but maybe with inline assembly will save even more program memory
[18:19:40] <Vikinger> wow i already saved like 234bytes
[18:19:50] <Vikinger> from my precious 1k
[18:19:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> I thought you wanted to swap...oh well.
[18:20:05] <Vikinger> no sorry
[18:20:22] <Vikinger> even thougt swap would have the same efect
[18:20:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> num= ( (n & 0x0F)<<4 | (n & 0xF0)>>4 );
[18:22:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> if you assign a uint8_t variable to a register then you can use one inline assembly command to swap nibbles in that variable.
[18:22:50] <Vikinger> yes and that will probably save me even more memory
[18:23:23] <Vikinger> the gcc is probably not using assembly SWAP
[18:23:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> probably not.
[18:23:53] <carabia> the clouds are shifting in my crystal ball, a message appears: it will be even more fun to debug this program he's writing tonight
[18:24:20] * Lambda_Aurigae prefers helping people bug programs rather than debug.
[18:27:37] <Vikinger> i should do that
[18:27:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> the opposite of debugging is,,,,
[18:28:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> programming!
[18:29:07] <Tom_L> blame the hardware
[18:29:16] <learath> Lambda_Aurigae: not java?
[18:29:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> if it's not on fire it's a software problem.
[18:29:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> learath, what about java?
[18:29:45] <learath> the opposite of debugging is
[18:29:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> oh.
[18:29:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> naaa.
[18:30:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> java is great...
[18:30:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> easily reverse engineered.
[18:30:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> even obfuscated java can be reversed without too much problem.
[18:45:17] <Vikinger> would it be bad practice to declare global variables in the header file ?
[18:48:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> depends on what the variable is for.
[18:49:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> but,,,,whatever works for the project.
[18:49:26] <Vikinger> to save a state to be used all over
[18:49:52] <Vikinger> just want to follown good practices
[18:50:01] <Vikinger> as much as possible
[18:50:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> good practices are what works.
[18:55:13] <carabia> can i announce a new #avr contest?
[18:55:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> only if you are providing the prizes.
[18:55:40] <carabia> similarly as rue did?
[18:55:49] <Vikinger> shot
[18:58:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> who got shot?
[18:58:13] <Vikinger> the sheriff
[19:21:40] <carabia> dunz0r are you a real hax0r?
[19:23:28] <dunz0r> carabia: No, I used to think I was one though. Now I just use the domain ironically.
[19:25:09] <carabia> pretty hax if you ask me
[19:25:26] <Casper> did you got any purchase offer?
[19:25:37] <Casper> or any police visit?
[19:27:03] <Emil> dunz0r: do or did you study in KTH?
[19:27:26] <Emil> Hmm, I could buy hax0r.fi :D
[19:29:34] <dunz0r> Casper: No actually, mostly smug comments when applying for jobs, because if I have a silly domain-name I'm sure as hell going to use it.
[19:30:20] <dunz0r> Emil: No, I'm not cool, just a two year KY-thingie in Solna doing linux and sysadmin-stuff.
[19:30:34] <Emil> aww
[19:30:45] <carabia> would buy an ax domain just to look cool if it wasn't for the faggy swedes asking for such a high price for them
[19:30:56] <Emil> carabia: swedes?
[19:31:00] <Emil> It's Finnish :D
[19:31:19] <carabia> technically yes
[19:31:24] <carabia> practically, no
[19:31:27] <dunz0r> Why would I want a .ax-domain? Also, stop calling me a bundle of sticks...
[19:31:53] <dunz0r> Or rather, resembling a bundle of sticks :P
[19:32:20] <carabia> also Emil the finns have no gain for that
[19:32:33] <carabia> dunz0r: or just plain girly men
[19:33:17] <Emil> carabia: oh, yeah just googled, apparently it's backwards af
[19:33:31] <carabia> what is "backwards"?
[19:33:49] <dunz0r> carabia: Top lol mate, great joke.
[19:33:51] <Emil> They should do like .fi domain just did imho
[19:34:10] <Emil> carabia: hm?
[19:34:22] <carabia> was quite the simple question
[19:36:59] <carabia> also, last i checked "mov.ax" was available
[19:37:09] <carabia> at least.
[19:37:33] <carabia> too lazy to check anything right now with this laptop off the ghetto
[19:38:09] <Emil> carabia: are you seriously asking what backwards means?
[19:38:37] <carabia> young googloid, you have some training to do in the art of understanding context
[19:38:49] <Emil> carabia: I do
[19:38:55] <Emil> But please do explain
[19:39:09] <carabia> what is it that was backwards
[19:39:47] <Emil> carabia: oh, you must invest in reading comprehension, too
[19:39:48] <Emil> ;)
[19:40:11] <carabia> you didn't provide a context, you just said "something was backwards"
[19:40:17] <Emil> Lol
[19:40:22] <Emil> invest in reading comprehension :D
[19:40:24] <Emil> Anycase
[19:40:38] <Emil> Apparently you can't just buy .ax domains without being a resident there
[19:40:57] <Emil> Of course you can buy from a reseller
[19:41:06] <Emil> But then you are only licensing them
[19:41:31] <carabia> ...i recommend you investing in exercising verbal output
[19:41:36] <Emil> carabia: you, too, mate
[19:42:13] <dunz0r> Would you look at that, .ax for Aaland islands... that place where you lay over so you can buy cheap alcohol. TIL.
[19:42:28] <carabia> i'm gonna leave it at that, but do keep the suggestion in mind
[19:42:44] <Emil> Oh, the wiki is outdated
[19:42:57] <Emil> Anyone can register now
[19:42:58] <Emil> Nice
[19:43:49] <carabia> dunz0r: åland, yeah
[19:44:18] <carabia> that's not really here nor there but they do speak your god awful language
[19:44:45] <dunz0r> Åland, where everyone speaks swedish with a finnish accent, but no one knows finnish.
[19:45:35] <carabia> i.e. quasi-faggots
[19:49:39] <carabia> i actually meant textual output instead of verbal. verbal irc would be quite the living hell
[19:50:23] <Lambda-Aurigae> carabia, it can be. I often run text-to-speech on irc when I'm working on other things.
[19:50:47] <Vikinger> i finished my master piece
[19:50:48] <carabia> you've got to be kidding me
[19:50:49] <Emil> carabia: quite salty you are
[19:50:53] <Lambda-Aurigae> people using "u" "ur" "thx" "w8" and such get really annoying.
[19:51:00] <Emil> Lambda-Aurigae: who does that
[19:51:03] <carabia> Emil: no not at all
[19:51:19] <Lambda-Aurigae> it happens.
[19:51:22] <Emil> carabia: if it makes you feel better ;)
[19:51:51] <carabia> Emil: i might become though, if you keep acting retarded
[19:51:58] <carabia> but that's just hypothetical
[19:52:22] <Emil> carabia: such salt
[19:52:45] <carabia> you really like pushing it, don't you? Idiots are welcome on my ignore list
[19:53:07] <Emil> carabia: lol
[19:53:43] <dunz0r> Picking fights on irc isn't really very effective. Neither is making threats. You are most likely literally thousands of kilometers apart. It's just weird.
[19:54:05] <Lambda-Aurigae> dunz0r, it's like kissing your sister...fun but pointless mostly.
[19:54:09] <Emil> dunz0r: we know
[19:54:48] <dunz0r> Lambda-Aurigae: Not sure I would even call it fun :P
[19:54:53] <Emil> Jeez, why must encapsulated mains power transformes cost so much
[19:55:06] <carabia> i see no threats being made. what i was seeing him trying to get a reaction out of me, but i ignored him instead. move on?
[19:55:34] <Emil> I don't want to buy from eBay, can't trust those
[19:55:54] <Lambda-Aurigae> dunz0r, I have no sister...so I just had fun kissing other peoples' sisters!
[19:56:07] <Emil> Lambda-Aurigae: that's cheating
[19:56:20] <carabia> and then again it was pointless and possibly costly in the long run
[19:56:29] <Lambda-Aurigae> Emil, I play by my own rules.
[19:56:43] <Emil> Lambda-Aurigae: smart choice
[19:57:32] <carabia> the kissy-kissy bit, that is
[19:57:55] <Lambda-Aurigae> carabia, I'm on my 3rd marriage if that tells you anything.
[19:58:20] <carabia> yeah, get rid of 'em when they start pushing wrinkles
[19:58:24] <Emil> How the heck can I achieve cheap and small isolation while still being able to pull like 1A
[19:59:07] <Lambda-Aurigae> Emil, lasers and really good solar cells?
[19:59:07] <Emil> not 230V/1A but 230V/100mA
[19:59:21] <Emil> Lambda-Aurigae: that's not really small :D
[19:59:29] <Emil> But, in theory
[20:00:06] <Emil> I like the idea, could even be a BSC/MSC thesis :D
[20:00:29] <Lambda-Aurigae> the ultimate in optoisolation.
[20:00:35] <dunz0r> Emil: Electrokit has some encapsulated ones that outputs voltages like that, not awfully expensive either.
[20:00:44] <dunz0r> s/voltages/currents/
[20:01:06] <Emil> "Optoisolation in power circuits"
[20:01:15] <Emil> It would be quite the misleading name for something like this :D
[20:01:55] <Emil> dunz0r: care to link?
[20:02:15] <dunz0r> Emil:
http://www.electrokit.com/transformator-24va-2x9v.50136
[20:02:43] <carabia> oh and Vikinger care to show? I'm eager
[20:02:48] <Emil> dunz0r: still 20€, which is in the price range from mouser. I was thinking like under 10€ :D
[20:03:27] <dunz0r> Emil: Hmm, I don't want to be a downer... but that sounds unreasonably low :(
[20:03:41] <dunz0r> Emil: Buy used maybe?
[20:03:49] <Emil> Hmm, maybe I should just accept smaller currents and just charge a big capacitor bank to provide instantenious currents if needed
[20:04:13] <Emil> dunz0r: well, yeah, I could just rip it off of bonk, no issue there
[20:04:48] <dunz0r> Emil: Hmm, doesn't usb-chargers usually provide something like ~2-3A at 5V?
[20:05:02] <dunz0r> Although, they cost like a proper transformer :/
[20:05:03] <Emil> dunz0r: they do, but without isolation iirc
[20:05:38] <dunz0r> Oh right, the isolation-part, forgot about that.
[20:06:03] <Lambda-Aurigae> isolation...hence the laser solar cell idea.
[20:06:18] <Emil> Lambda-Aurigae: lasers are hard, though
[20:06:26] <Emil> Lambda-Aurigae: maybe just led lights
[20:06:54] <Lambda-Aurigae> naa...I know a guy who is a phd student sudying solid state lasers.
[20:07:04] <Lambda-Aurigae> just gotta know the right people!
[20:08:40] <Emil> Hmm
[20:08:44] <dunz0r> Emil: Woop woop, look what I found \o/
https://www.elfa.se/en/pcb-transformer-10-va-vac-1x-block-vc-10/p/15600789
[20:10:02] <Emil> dunz0r: holy shit mate, you actuall found a pretty good one :D
[20:10:17] <Emil> and we also get discounts from elfa :D
[20:10:44] <dunz0r> Emil: A lot of people doesn't check Elfa, because it's usually expensive, but some things are dirt cheap there, for some reason.
[20:10:51] <dunz0r> s/doesn't/don't/
[20:11:24] <dunz0r> They used to have the cheapest Sharp IR-sensors, even cheaper than Ebay :O
[20:11:47] <Emil> :o
[20:13:52] <carabia> elfa's okay, they've got a pretty nice selection of stuff at reasonable prices, and they have a distributor in helsinki
[20:14:11] <Emil> carabia: are you a finnish fag?
[20:14:16] <carabia> well, a pseudo-distributor anyway, in case you want to cut shipping costs
[20:17:55] <Emil> I know, we get discounts from them :D
[20:18:16] <dunz0r> They used to have physical store within ~1 hour of public transport from me, pretty great store, great staff. But it shut down :(
[20:18:26] <dunz0r> Now it's just interwebs
[20:19:05] <Emil> Damn
[20:19:14] <dunz0r> Physical stores for electronic components are really underrated, so much fun to come in and talk to someone about your silly projects :D
[20:19:33] <Lambda-Aurigae> closest I have is an hour away
[20:19:40] <Lambda-Aurigae> and they are all ardweeny fanboys in there.
[20:20:04] <dunz0r> Closesst I have is an hour away still, but that place is so god damn expensive I can't shop there.
[20:20:32] <dunz0r> A 555 like 2-3 dollars. Even if you buy multiple.
[20:20:45] <dunz0r> And the supply isn't awesome either.
[20:20:58] <Emil> Lambda-Aurigae: I feel sorry for you
[20:21:13] <Emil> dunz0r: lolwat :D
[20:21:40] <carabia> dunz0r: with a quick search some time ago i found a lot of small shops based in sweden that sell some arduino stuff and the likes, aswell as full blown arm ca boards like rpi
[20:22:26] <dunz0r> carabia: Yeah, there's like Kjell & Co and places like that. That's more akin to Radioshack though.
[20:22:58] <carabia> something like that yeah, with the occasional limited selection of discrete stuff
[20:22:59] <dunz0r> You CAN buy loose components, a few, but it's not like there anything more than resistors and capacitors, possibly a voltage regulator.
[20:24:00] <Lambda-Aurigae> rat shacks around here mostly closed...what's still open are just cellphone stores.
[20:24:41] <carabia> truth to tell, i've only ever been to two stores that sell discrete components. One with a bunch of guys looking like they want to kill themselves, the shopkeepers that is
[20:25:13] <Lambda-Aurigae> I wanna go to shenzen for a week.
[20:25:45] <dunz0r> Lambda-Aurigae: Mhm, just bring a big, empty bag and fill it to the brim with parts :D
[20:25:46] <Emil> Lambda-Aurigae: me, too
[20:25:56] <Lambda-Aurigae> dunz0r, that's the plan.
[20:26:02] <carabia> and the other one seemingly was ran by some eastern european guy speaking very shaky english. I have not solicited him since, at the time I was just in dire need of some passives in low qty and quick.
[20:26:04] <Emil> Or just have them ship it for you
[20:26:05] <Lambda-Aurigae> travel costs would be killer though.
[20:26:08] <Emil> Cheaper that way
[20:26:21] <Emil> Go there, find what you want and have the things shipped
[20:27:13] <carabia> meh, perhaps to check the vibe out but i wouldn't want to go there in a crowded marketplace to hunt for parts
[20:27:38] <carabia> i don't think shopping in the electronics markets over there is really a breeze
[20:29:03] <Lambda-Aurigae> it would be fun to go.
[20:31:05] <carabia> perhaps. however i find some value also in laying on the couch ordering what i need and letting the chinks do the legwork
[20:31:15] <Lambda-Aurigae> there is that too.
[20:31:22] <Lambda-Aurigae> only, I prefer to sit in my recliner
[20:31:35] <Lambda-Aurigae> monitor on the swingarm doesn't reach the couch.
[20:32:13] <carabia> mmm. a recliner.
[20:35:54] <carabia> Vikinger: are you debugging it? :D
[21:47:03] <Eszett> Hi
[21:49:41] <Eszett> I don't understand the official Atmel pin naming here: the why is the pin which connects to the USB VBUS called "UVCC"? Another pin, which is a monitor pin is called "VBUS"...
https://puu.sh/sXfPs/c61765ec31.png
[22:28:21] <theBear> USB VCC -> UniversalSerialBus VoltsCollectorCnsomething noone seems to remember
[22:29:52] <theBear> monitor pin ? wtf ? there ain't no monitor pins, and them graphics look suspiciously like some due-weeny type drew that, you checked they are teh REAL pin names, and not the retarded/arbitrary/changed-for-no-reason-anyone-can-even-write-fiction-to-explain one ?
[22:32:42] <theBear> short version re Vcc/Vee and Vdd/Vss , i pretty sure that order makes sense, big week fer me, anyway, think about transistors, then casually remember TTL as a related term, and TTL of course is the fancy name for 74 series, fer the other two think about a fet or two, and then remind yerself that CMOS 4000 stands fer complimentary mos, and 4000 just the series, i dunno who got to make that one up... if the 2nd one still sounds a bit open-loop linguiostically
[22:32:43] <theBear> remind yerself that fet is short for mos fet, and i bet if you treat one good enough it'd be complimentary
[22:34:52] <Eszett> Hi thebear
[22:35:42] <Eszett> Ive created that illustration, put its with the original pin names, nothing made up
[22:36:59] <theBear> fairy nuff, in that case it looks nicely futuristic
[22:37:18] <theBear> so these monitor pins you speak of ? what avr is it while we at it ?
[22:37:59] <Eszett> The official datasheet of the Atmega32u4 calles the VBUS pin a monitor pin:
https://puu.sh/sXi5z/616b1653fa.png
[22:39:10] <Eszett> So I just wondered why the pin naming is not more straight forwared (intuitively) like for example: "VBUS" for the VBUS pin, and "VMON" for the monitor pin, or something like that.
[22:40:12] <Eszett> Do you agree in that point?
[22:52:34] <Snert> it's always been that way though. Gotta dig and dig in the datasheet.
[22:53:11] <Snert> one companies idea of good nomenclature is not another companys idea of good nomenclature.
[23:00:35] <Eszett> ye
[23:03:21] <Eszett> Snert: have you seen this already:
https://puu.sh/sXjdE/c8f5f9015c.png There must be some law like murphys law: If there is the chance to confuse the people by altering technical standards arbitrarily, the chance will be taken.
[23:09:13] rue_house changed topic of
#avr to:
http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/index.php
[23:09:33] rue_house changed topic of
#avr to: 8 bit atmel microcontrollers, and maybe other stuff.
http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/index.php
[23:10:18] <theBear> you know about the table right near the beginning of the datasheet that has a paragraph or two, usually a little schematic/equiv.diag fragment to match etc, in all atmel datasheets right ? and that if yer still not 100% sure skipping to (in this case) the usb chapter, the first page or two will make it VERY clear what that pin does
[23:13:57] <theBear> ooh, without even looking at my copy of the datasheet, i think the monitor one is kinda aimed at connecting to usbv+ (from a cable/external pov) in order to keep an eye that the potentially unreliable or droopy or crappy usb power is sensible (enough maybe) or if it time to ask the brownout fuses what it should do 'cos it's damage-control time
[23:20:19] <Eszett> I can browse everything up, but my argument is, that there is absolutely no need to name it counter-intuitively.
[23:22:45] <theBear> i remembered that cos if i remembered right it IS intuitive
[23:23:26] <theBear> what would you call a pin that monitors an often rough voltage/psu source to check if it getting rough ?
[23:25:07] <Eszett> VMON
[23:43:39] <theBear> that'd be a blatantly non-ambiguos/obvious abbreviation for anyone remotely experienced in electronics... V is obvious to ANYONE, and if yer designing/implementing at a pin by pin level on a microcontroller, that's a WHOLE 80-s grade computer in a single chip remember, you should know all about brownout detection/reset circuits and after all that, wtf else is it gonna be in usb-dept ? c'mon man, stiff upper lip
