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[03:19:26] <_ami_> omg, its so nice to use Eclipse for AVR.
[03:19:51] <_ami_> so intuitive
[03:20:04] <_ami_> and easy to use and hassle free
[04:22:07] <skz81> <LeoNerd> for one thing, nobody in Arduino generally has any idea how to write nonblocking code >> got some "funny" answer on #ESP32... I'm affraid the SDK of that chip turns into somewhat purely synchronous arduino-like API. Some people just DID NOT understand my point.
[04:23:53] <skz81> Something like : "why would you need non-blocking calls where you have RTOS task scheduling and two cores" ? At that point I stop talking to that guy **shot self in the head**
[05:50:27] <inflex> fun stuff
[08:50:17] <bss36504> _ami_: "Eclipse is intuitive" -no one ever
[08:50:55] <carabia> "it's so nice to use Eclipse" -no one ever
[08:50:59] <_ami_> :)
[08:51:10] <carabia> eclipse is a horrible horrible bloat piece of shit
[08:51:25] <carabia> i simply can't understand how a god damn ide be so slow
[08:51:35] <bss36504> That lucked it's way into being the #1 java IDE simply by being first
[08:51:43] <skz81> <carabia> i simply can't understand how a god damn ide be so slow >> java
[08:52:02] <bss36504> skz81 oh shut the hell up. Java is not slow.
[08:52:06] <bss36504> Thats a myth
[08:52:16] <carabia> can't be the only reason.
[08:52:36] <_ami_> it might be slow for big projects (like 1 milion lines of code). it applies to any good ide (e.g. VS201*)
[08:53:13] <_ami_> avr projects can not be that big.. so i think eclipse suits for avr development?
[08:53:35] <LeoNerd> I just write avr code in (neo)vim
[08:53:49] <carabia> haven't use it with /avr/ projects, but with arm projects (that aren't really that big either) it already starts crapping up
[08:53:54] <bss36504> wow, LeoNerd, so edgy :P
[08:54:00] <carabia> up to the point i've also switched over to vim.
[08:54:07] <_ami_> for max 32 kb .text code, i am not sure how much lines of C is needed.. its not that big
[08:54:39] <_ami_> i also use vim.. i have been using it for long time.. even for bigger projects like EFL
[08:54:53] <bss36504> Visual Studio is a vastly superior C/C++/C# etc IDE
[08:54:57] * LeoNerd just adding extra data points
[08:55:00] <carabia> i can't understand what eclipse would bring to the table, then
[08:55:40] <_ami_> bss36504: VS is great.. i like it but its just too bulky and does not work well if your code is on remote computer via NFS
[08:56:07] <carabia> so it's bulky but eclipse isn't?
[08:56:07] <_ami_> VS2008 was gr8.. it used to work FAST over network .
[08:56:18] <carabia> :D
[08:56:28] <bss36504> Why would you work on the code over NFS?
[08:56:37] <_ami_> IMHO eclipse is FAR less bulkier
[08:56:43] <carabia> also if it's - as you say - less than 32k
[08:56:57] <carabia> why the fuck would you go it over a bridge
[08:57:06] <carabia> do*
[08:57:56] <skz81> <bss36504> skz81 oh shut the hell up. Java is not slow. >> java itself maybe not, but many framework (even standard) seems over-engineered/overcomplicated, leading to apps slowness. Even arduino IDE is slow, for what it is
[08:58:09] <bss36504> I just hate that I cant ever find the goddamn option that does xyz in eclipse. Too many options, too many levels of indirection. I dont like the project management, I dont like the speed of the intellisense (slower than it should be), I dont like how slow it builds even modest sized java projects.
[08:58:51] <carabia> _ami_: in time you'll see. I wonder if they've even bothered to fix eclipse totally shitting when using gtk3
[08:59:02] <bss36504> skz81: Can you provide one example of either a ubiquitous framework or standards-driven "overcomplicated and slow" project?
[08:59:25] <_ami_> bss36504: i got two machines, windows and linux at work. i want to have one more window for debugging (when i become lazy), so i mount linux drive on windows.
[08:59:53] <_ami_> i got three monitors though. two for linux and 1 for window os.
[09:00:31] <bss36504> Oh I see I guess. That's a unique setup I think. At the very least "non-traditional"
[09:01:14] <carabia> _ami_: ???
[09:02:05] <_ami_> bss36504: windows is only for checking emails and chats in office network. not much use
[09:02:41] <carabia> so you do your avr stuff on the commi... linux?
[09:03:03] <bss36504> _ami_: you should just triple monitor linux and run windows in a virtualbox
[09:03:45] <_ami_> bss36504: can't really do. company policy shit. they track every fucking network packets :P
[09:03:49] <skz81> bss36504, take it easy, i'm mostly trolling. But seriously, each time I have to run some java app... It's very often slow, to launch, run or both
[09:04:19] <_ami_> carabia: yes, its always been linux. almost everything i do.
[09:04:27] <carabia> skz81: empitical evidence shouldn't been generalized
[09:04:35] <skz81> :)
[09:04:39] <carabia> be, rather
[09:04:45] <carabia> i can't type today
[09:05:12] <carabia> _ami_: so i'm still completely lost as to why do you have to edit <32k bits of code through nfs? \:D/
[09:05:54] <_ami_> carabia: not avr stuffs.. i don't do avr stuffs at work. i am talking abt EFL project. its too BIG.
[09:06:22] <carabia> okay but you were talking about using eclipse "for avr"
[09:06:24] <_ami_> https://git.enlightenment.org/core/efl.git/log/
[09:06:26] <bss36504> skz81: Fair enough. I think that problem stems from either your application is more complicated than you think, thus taking more time to load, or, more likely, everyone and their brother can be a "junior java developer" so that leads to a lot of garbage code.
[09:06:35] <carabia> and that visual studio was too bulky
[09:06:38] <carabia> ...
[09:06:59] <_ami_> carabia: i was giving example on recent versions of VS are slow over network.
[09:07:25] <_ami_> VS2008 still is FASTER and i use it quite often to browse EFL code when i am lazy
[09:08:27] <carabia> nevermind your job projects, we're #avr
[09:08:33] <bss36504> lol
[09:08:36] <_ami_> :)
[09:08:53] <bss36504> I needed a little salt on my eggs this morning carabia, thanks :P
[09:09:01] <carabia> stop using eclipse. It's devil's work
[09:09:33] <_ami_> carabia: MSWord/excel/ppt and VS are the brilliant softwares by MS.
[09:09:45] <carabia> oh please you'd be red in the ass too if you would've used eclipse as much as I have
[09:10:16] <bss36504> I do use eclipse at work. I hate it too
[09:10:25] <_ami_> i did not use eclipse much before.. allow me to taste it :D
[09:10:29] <bss36504> Actually, I use eclipse when I have to, usually I stick with netbeans
[09:12:12] <carabia> I wonder if even java people like eclipse...
[09:12:34] <_ami_> btw, i wanted to make a avr game for my kid. i need a gameboy kind of plastic case. does anybody sell the gameboy plastic case?
[09:13:08] <carabia> _ami_: your options include, but are not limited to, google, alibaba, ebay :)
[09:13:23] <carabia> actually, DX might be your best bet
[09:14:07] <_ami_> carabia: DX?
[09:14:53] <carabia> dealextreme. Quick search shows they at least sell a clam shell gameboy case.
[09:15:01] <carabia> gameboy advanced sp or something...
[09:16:01] <bss36504> Oh boy, the SP was hard for nintendo to pack their design into. Good luck
[09:16:10] <_ami_> carabia: found few at aliexpress. thanks
[09:16:40] <carabia> that clam shell design seems cool. I wonder if you could fit one of those cheap 240x320 screens on the top
[09:16:51] <_ami_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhWTfATkg6w --
[09:16:59] <carabia> though can forget about driving them with an avr at reasonable framerates
[09:18:24] <carabia> bss36504: yeah can't really get an idea of the dimensions as i've never had even a single gameboy
[09:20:04] <carabia> probably someone in the nearest "hackerspace" has made their own case for their own raspberry pi handheld and will print out the case for a few $
[09:20:54] <carabia> forgot to add a couple more "their" and "own" in there. I really can't type right now. Needs more coffee
[09:33:08] <bss36504> Yeah if you were running off micro SD or somethign I'm sure you could fit somethign into it. The SP was hands down one of the coolest handhelds ever made.
[09:33:32] <bss36504> But, they didnt have a lot of room insdide cause they still used cartridges.
[09:41:34] <skz81> <_ami_> btw, i wanted to make a avr game for my kid. >> avr game ?
[09:55:53] <_ami_> skz81: a game based on avr. i think i would start with a tic-tac-toe then move towards making more complex games. thinking of using ili9341 and m16a
[09:58:32] <skz81> _ami_, haaa okay !
[09:59:49] <_ami_> gonna use cpp. its been a long time since i hv coded in cpp.
[10:00:25] <_ami_> good for preparing interviews. design patterns can also be used.
[10:00:36] <skz81> _ami_, tic tac toe and such are acheivable yeah. I made some tries with an ili9341 (LCD/TFT + SD card sheild) plugged on arduino, with adafruit lib as found on github and ...
[10:00:41] <skz81> it's slooooooow :(
[10:01:52] <_ami_> skz81: there are two adafruit libraries for ili3941. there is one FAST one too. did you use that lib?
[10:01:55] <_ami_> the faster one?
[10:02:10] <skz81> I wonder if a very basic "breakout" game could be done with a decent framework
[10:02:26] <skz81> hu, no, was not aware there was a second one !
[10:02:48] <skz81> I used the most "popular", so probably not the faster one :p
[10:03:06] <_ami_> skz81:
https://github.com/PaulStoffregen/ILI9341_t3
[10:04:40] <skz81> _ami_, also, I wonder if some other wiring strategy could lead to faster design (but it's largely beyond using a off-the-shelf hardware and -- possibly customized -- libs)
[10:05:15] <skz81> thanks, i'll give it a try. I must ensure that actually a 9341 i have, but mostly sure of that
[10:11:33] <skz81> _ami_, anyway, I bet your kid would be happier with ESP32 and its NES port :) :)
[10:12:20] <carabia> _ami_: meh, it's still slow with an avr
[10:12:20] <skz81> (but why using a chip that does wifi to play offline game that is the question !)
[10:13:56] <carabia> especially when you use spi. Though i guess doesn't matter thaaat in an avr cause you don't have dma
[10:14:20] <carabia> otherwise you could have a ring buffer and stream data to and from the buffer simultaneously
[10:18:21] <carabia> I wonder if that controller does something like rgb332 and then 8-bit parallel. Could work pretty fast perhaps
[10:19:01] <carabia> then again spi is easier and tictactoe works with whatever
[10:21:03] <bss36504> _ami_: you should use the FT81x chip
[10:25:39] <carabia> that chip looks pretty cool
[10:30:50] <skz81> <carabia> I wonder if that controller does something like rgb332 and then 8-bit parallel. >> the sheild I have used 8-bit parallel or like. But, still slow... To much for any "serious" animation
[10:31:29] <carabia> skz81: ili does spi i2c and 8/16 parallel i know that, but not sure if it does 8bit greyscale or rgb332
[10:31:34] <carabia> the ili9341 or whatever
[10:32:35] <carabia> bss36504: or alternatively use something hassle-free, like a cm4 with an integrated tft-lcd controller with enough ram to hold a framebuffer, they also come with a dram interface + controller so you can use external ram if you want fancypants stuff such as a double buffer
[10:32:59] <carabia> then you're not even limited to the screens having controllers with internal frambuffers
[10:34:29] <bss36504> Wait, how is that more hassle free than a graphics coprocessor?
[10:34:43] <bss36504> you'd still need to make a software library for drawing functions and whatnot.
[10:34:49] <bss36504> the FT81x has all that
[10:34:49] <carabia> single chip!
[10:35:17] <bss36504> I guess you and i have different opinions of "hassle free"
[10:35:17] <carabia> that's true but everyone can write software!
[10:35:36] <bss36504> Everyone can connect a SPI channel to an external CHIP!
[10:35:42] <carabia> :D
[10:35:43] <bss36504> dunno why I capitalized that...
[10:36:03] <GeneralStupid> everyone is able to connect SPI! But not everyone is able to send and receive data :D
[10:36:06] <GeneralStupid> its not that easy -.-
[10:36:19] <bss36504> haha I think that's just you, GeneralStupid ;)
[10:38:23] <GeneralStupid> its really hard -.- But actually i had some crazy PCB accidents -.-
[10:38:36] <carabia> that's what she said
[10:38:50] <bss36504> You talk to some straaaange ladies, carabia
[10:39:01] <bss36504> GeneralStupid: did you ever get it working?
[10:39:03] <GeneralStupid> yesterday, the second i²c bus makes the atmel hang -.-
[10:39:10] <carabia> well, you know, it was hard at the very least...
[10:39:15] <bss36504> haha
[10:40:07] <GeneralStupid> it turns out that there was a connector directly under the SCK pin, so connecting the Logicanalyzer makes a short circuit on the first SCK high signal
[10:40:27] <GeneralStupid> yes, everything works... Now i "just" need to program the blackfin and Bluetooth :D
[10:41:23] <GeneralStupid> but i had some crazy behaviour on that PC. reboots and software crashes... i checked the memory today and one of my 4 memory banks is damages
[10:41:27] <GeneralStupid> damaged
[11:09:41] <pepijndevos> Can I change the number of bytes per line in the ihex file?
[11:19:50] <GeneralStupid> pepijndevos: its just a suggestion but a hex file does not have lineendings...
[11:20:11] <pepijndevos> it does...
[11:31:29] <bss36504> pepijndevos: perhaps your editor is inserting the line breaks.
[11:31:56] <pepijndevos> I'm talking about this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_HEX
[11:32:56] <bss36504> make a quick script to convert it?
[11:42:42] <_ami_> skz81, carabia, bss36504: thanks for the tips.
[11:43:32] <_ami_> skz81: i got one esp32, although i got to learn esp-idf SDK.
[11:45:05] <skz81> _ami_, only some esp8266 here, but i'm lurking on esp32. I have to build something with the former before buying the latter
[11:45:21] <_ami_> bss36504: checking abt FT81x chip
[11:46:19] <bss36504> I've wanted to tinker with that for a while, it looks cool, and it opens up the possibility to control some fairly large screens with fairly complex graphics without committing to a complex ARM A processor design.
[11:46:53] <bss36504> Mostly good for HMI and simple graphics though, it's not for streaming videos really
[11:46:57] <_ami_> skz81: i used esp12e for few small projects (Weather station, watering system.). used arduino sdk for that though.
[11:47:12] <bss36504> I realize I contradict myself on simple and coomplex graphics...
[11:48:44] <_ami_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqmdArGt2Jw
[11:48:50] <skz81> bss36504, not-so-simple-but-not-too-complex graphics, it is :) :)
[11:49:05] <bss36504> yeah, basically
[11:50:01] <bss36504> Yeah, like a nice HMI, or a nice looking (simple) game would be a good fit for it I think. Or an MP3 player.
[11:50:04] <_ami_> skz81: you could nicely ask espressif to provide esp32 sample :)
[11:50:59] <skz81> _ami_, it's more a matter than i lack time
[11:51:07] <skz81> that*
[11:51:13] <_ami_> i got esp-wroom-32
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwKX7QIWgAAwKTc.jpg:large
[11:51:54] <_ami_> did run blinky program on it.
[11:52:26] <skz81> :) vade retro satanas, you're temptating me !
[11:52:55] <_ami_> ;)
[11:53:37] <_ami_> its FAR easier to use than esp8266 board i made recently
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CussbeHXEAADMxF.jpg:large
[11:54:12] <_ami_> should have bought nodemcu instead. although 1 nodemcu board = 3 esp12e :)
[11:54:25] <skz81> use nodeMCU hardware for learning / prototyping
[11:54:38] <skz81> but have few bare esp8266 too
[11:54:38] <_ami_> yes, indeed.
[12:00:10] <carabia> bss36504: you can use an ARM M
[12:00:19] <carabia> cm4/7
[12:01:56] <bss36504> can that realistically support 800x600?
[12:02:02] <carabia> yes
[12:02:12] <bss36504> but, it's more software
[12:02:34] <carabia> st's controllers go up to 1024x768 iirc
[12:02:48] <carabia> sure is, but software in general is more flexible
[12:03:29] <bss36504> Those are impressive controllers.
[12:03:36] <bss36504> Do they only support MIPI?
[12:03:58] <bss36504> I found it's harder to locate small single qty LCDs that support MIPI compared to RGB
[12:04:12] <bss36504> On top of it being hard to locate inexpensive small LCDs in general
[12:04:13] <_ami_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvccxaDXZFA&feature=youtu.be - esp32 based board.
[12:04:32] <carabia> bss36504: not sure, as i've never done MIPI
[12:05:22] <bss36504> carabia: Oh duh, I just need to read more of the table:
http://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers/stm32f4-series.html?querycriteria=productId=SS1577
[12:06:15] <carabia> but they support up to 1024x768 and various pixel formats
[12:06:29] <bss36504> Also that 469 comes in a 208 pin QFP. yeessh
[12:06:40] <carabia> it also has two layers so the controller can do alpha blending in hardware
[12:06:48] <bss36504> ooh fancy
[12:07:01] <bss36504> I admit I havent done a lot with embedded graphics stuff.
[12:07:07] <carabia> they also have the "chrom-art" accelerator-thingamabob
[12:07:17] <carabia> which is basically is gfx-oriented dma controller
[12:07:21] <bss36504> Just such a hassle and not really what I need for most of my projects.
[12:07:36] <bss36504> I was planning to use the FT81x for my reflow oven at some point
[12:08:19] <bss36504> The point being that I could make the control board first with broken out spi lines, then just farm the graphics out to the FTDI later on when I feel like it
[12:08:24] <carabia> the dma2d controller can do bitmap blending/filling/blitting
[12:08:26] <bss36504> the control board currently has an XmegaE on it, but that may change
[12:08:36] <bss36504> that's pretty cool
[12:08:44] <bss36504> for my oven, probably overkill.
[12:08:48] <carabia> perhaps.
[12:08:55] <carabia> unless you can cool graphics!
[12:09:21] <bss36504> at least in terms of the amount of effort required to get it to do anything at all, vs the FTDI which I can essentially just hook up and send spi packets to
[12:09:35] <carabia> i've ran into some issues with the dma2d accelerator dropping sync when doing bitmap blending into active framebuffer in external sdram
[12:09:45] <bss36504> I think I'm going to swap the xmegaE for a SAM D21
[12:10:13] <carabia> perhaps it's some bus contention cause the lcd controller is dmaing data out of the buffer and the dma2d controller is dmaing data into the buffer... dunno but i've worked my way around it
[12:10:32] <carabia> but it's a seriously cool piece of hardware to play around with
[12:10:37] <bss36504> Yeah for sure.
[12:10:51] <bss36504> I also thought about using a cypress PSoC4 for the control system.
[12:11:06] <bss36504> It would be pretty dope to implement the PID in actual analog hardware in a single chip
[12:11:11] <carabia> but yeah, as you said, it's only really for... dunno. Playing doom. media player. :)
[12:11:24] <carabia> even then i guess you can get a beefy arm-a for the same price :D
[12:11:39] <carabia> with a serious shit ton of ram in a soc
[12:11:48] <bss36504> yes, but the ARM A's have a loooot more infrastructure requirements than the M's
[12:11:56] <bss36504> Microprocessor vs Microcontroller and all
[12:12:08] <carabia> that's true but don't socs ease the asspain quite a lot
[12:13:36] <bss36504> My understanding or impressioon is that the ARM A chips require external program flash and RAM. They tend to have a ton more IO and come in shittier packages (BGA and such). I'm generalizing but I've just never seen an A-series with embedded memory of any real quantity
[12:14:16] <bss36504> Which makes sense at a fab level. The memories require a different process, so they have to sacrifice logic density
[12:14:31] <bss36504> the ARM A is a logic optimized process, hence no flash or SRAM
[12:14:56] <carabia> yes
[12:15:02] <bss36504> You could almost consider a Microcontroller to just be a Flash chip with a CPU attached, not the other way around
[12:15:59] <bss36504> I'm not opposed to doing an ARM A design, but for a hand held game? nah, no way. Definitely not for a fuckin reflow oven.
[12:16:18] <carabia> well
[12:16:26] <carabia> you could run nodejs in it
[12:17:04] <carabia> step 1: javascript and html9 step 2: ??? step 3: you know how this goes...
[12:17:45] <bss36504> right and now I have an actual computer running, not an embedded system (IMO). I much prefer the more mundane shit, the low level problem solving.
[12:17:58] <carabia> yeah, as do I
[12:18:14] <bss36504> Dont really have a lot of interest in these SBCs and whatnot. RPi, Beaglebone, etc.
[12:18:35] <carabia> they are out of my ballpark too, never played with them or any application processor really
[12:18:43] <bss36504> They're cool for what they are, but I dont see people using them as hardware. They use them like small linux machines, which is fine, but not what I care about
[12:19:08] <bss36504> And the reason nobody uses them as hardware is because a) linux admins dont know about circuits, and b) they're not really suited to low level stuff
[12:19:23] <bss36504> you get more GPIOs on an AVR than you do on a RPi board.
[12:19:29] <bss36504> which too me, is more useful
[12:19:38] <LeoNerd> And they're more capable ;) Some of them are even ADC inputs *snerk*
[12:20:01] <carabia> but you can connect it to the interwebs, and control your toilet bowl from a javascript api
[12:20:22] <carabia> internet of toilets(tm)
[12:20:56] <bss36504> just like my face-detecting smart bathroom mirror from yesterday
[12:21:21] <carabia> i must have missed that. And my backlog is set quite short...
[12:21:43] <bss36504> "connect your bathroom-camera-mirror to your IoToilet that uses advanced flush analysis to flush precisely long enough on a per user basis"
[12:21:53] <carabia> hahahah
[12:21:54] <bss36504> "Deep machine learning"
[12:22:01] <bss36504> "algorithms"
[12:22:02] <carabia> i actually laughed out loud at that.
[12:22:10] <bss36504> "But sir, wouldnt a bathroom camera be bad?"
[12:22:30] <bss36504> "no, we made sure to ship them all with a hardcoded admin password that nobody will /ever/ guess"
[12:22:44] <carabia> bss36504: not to mention you will need a cool domain (and check its availability beforehand), such as toilet.io
[12:22:53] <bss36504> yes!
[12:23:21] <bss36504> Website motto: "What goes in, must go out! - toilet.io"
[12:23:37] <carabia> :D
[12:24:51] <bss36504> No, my idea was actually pretty cool, ignoring the privacy aspect. Basically a smart mirrror with facial detection, serves up daily outlook stuff like weather, important emails, calendar events, FB feed, etc based on who's looking at it.
[12:24:52] <carabia> you should also arm the bowl full of all kinds of sensors to analyze the so-called "data" and use this data along with some next-level javascript to render graphs in real-time that, albeit look cool but no-one knows how to interpret
[12:25:04] <bss36504> But I figure embedding a camera in a bathroom mirror would go poorly
[12:25:18] <bss36504> ^^yes
[12:25:22] <bss36504> so when do we start?
[12:25:40] <carabia> Well... Hold on
[12:25:57] <bss36504> Unfortunately, toilet.io is taken :'(
[12:27:12] <carabia> like colin powell said...
[12:27:16] <carabia> first thing: money
[12:27:22] <carabia> so, kickstarter?
[12:27:47] <carabia> is .et a tld or whatever they are called?
[12:27:51] <carabia> toil.et?
[12:28:06] <carabia> sure is apparently, ethiopia
[12:29:47] <bss36504> also taken :(
[12:29:58] <carabia> Are you kidding me?
[12:30:17] <carabia> I think we're being spied on, someone's registering these as we speak
[12:30:54] <bss36504> iotoilet.io is available. I'd buy it but it's $59.99
[12:31:32] <carabia> well domains are unavailable and/or outside price range. Looks like we're going to have to can this idea. Lost cause.
[12:31:34] <bss36504> ooh but if we get .com, .net and .org we can get it for $25
[12:31:42] <carabia> but you see dotcom is so the 90s
[12:31:48] <carabia> it's all about the io now.
[12:32:05] <bss36504> That's true
[12:32:20] <carabia> I don't even know what the actual fuck ".io" is even supposed to represent
[12:32:21] <bss36504> We must have a novelty tld
[12:32:29] <bss36504> I love that abcminiuser got Dean.camera
[12:32:34] <carabia> :D
[12:33:16] <carabia> Oh okay. It's just a country tld.
[12:33:28] <LeoNerd> British Indian Ocean Territory
[12:33:29] <LeoNerd> obviously.
[12:33:31] <carabia> Here's an amazing quote from wikipedia:
[12:33:42] <carabia> "We took it because it refers to ‘input-output’. And our customers (mostly tech savvy people) understand it like so."
[12:33:45] <carabia> — Ben Verbeken - Seats.io CEO
[12:33:49] <carabia> okay then.
[12:34:12] <carabia> seats dot fucking io.
[12:34:38] <bss36504> https://imgflip.com/i/1dh39c
[12:34:42] <bss36504> Not a virus
[12:34:49] <carabia> ...if you say so.
[12:35:02] <carabia> :D
[12:35:17] <bss36504> I interpreted it as input/output as well
[12:35:22] <bss36504> like Hackaday.io
[12:35:30] <bss36504> though in that case it's mostly shit in, shit out
[12:35:37] <carabia> apparently "seats.io" is some kind of an online service to manage seating arrangements
[12:35:47] <LeoNerd> I prefer Saoa Toma as a ccTLD
[12:35:52] <LeoNerd> because they have localho.st
[12:36:23] <carabia> so basically what mister ben verbeken is saying "we took it because it's a buzzword"
[12:36:57] <carabia> and i truly wonder whether the average user of "seats.io" knows the meaning of it
[12:37:11] <LeoNerd> "the average user" has no concept of DNS
[12:37:12] <bss36504> Hey man, it promotes a synergistic and energetic ecosystem tying together all the great benefits of seat technology and the Internet of Things!
[12:37:22] <LeoNerd> "the average user" doesn't realise the naming structure of URLs at all
[12:37:49] <bss36504> no, not when you have people who literally type google.com in the URL bar of their browser before making a search.
[12:38:30] <carabia> hey fuck you my lynx doesn't search straight off the address bar
[12:40:28] <bss36504> please tell me youre kidding.
[12:40:39] <carabia> should i upgrade to elinks?
[12:40:46] <LeoNerd> It's true. lynx predates "default search engine" behaviour in browsers
[12:40:49] <bss36504> wouldn't that qualify as commie software under your definition?
[12:40:58] <carabia> indeed it would
[12:41:14] <carabia> i feel like i'm becoming redder (perhaps that's a word) by the minute
[12:43:04] <carabia> see, i'm hanging out more in irc than i probably should, i credit that to being a side-effect of this "reddening", like a true commie i expect *someone* to do the work, while i idle away.
[12:43:40] <carabia> and obviously expect all the benefits everyone else is getting.
[12:46:45] <carabia> but on a realistic note i don't expect anyone using lynx anymore apart from the old farts who have their fondest memories of the simulatenous use of pdp-11's, pot and acid all the way from the 70's
[12:48:16] <carabia> as their main browser anyway.
[12:48:48] <carabia> simultaneous is the word i was gunning for i think.
[13:53:13] <bss36504> Are there any known exploits for reading locked flash out of an AVR32?
[15:27:18] <carabia> bss36504: are you slipping into the red too, cause it sure does sound like you're trying to clone something... this is very nawtee.
[21:29:59] <Levitator> Hey, reading the digital IO part of the avr datasheet, it says that a pull-up input will source current.
[21:30:36] <Levitator> So, how much? Does that mean that if you use the internal pull-up you still need a current-limiting resistor to avoid frying the MCU?
[21:30:58] <cehteh> nope
[21:31:30] <Levitator> Ok, so they mean the pull-up resistor itself is sourcing the current, so it must be a very high resistance and very low current?
[21:31:46] <cehteh> datasheet says something about the resistance (which varies a lot) but its iirc more than 15k
[21:33:23] <cehteh> there is a global pullup disable flag, in case you need that for conserving energy, also consider external pullup/downs when you drive something critical
[21:33:25] <Levitator> I'm not seeing where it is that it specifies.
[21:33:32] <cehteh> when booting up outputs are floating
[21:33:44] <Levitator> Yeah, this is just for a pushbutton.
[21:34:11] <cehteh> no worries fora pushbutton, also it only sources current while pushed
[21:34:57] <cehteh> driving a mosfet is a bit more critical, when the pin becomes floating you may get unexpected results
[21:36:08] <cehteh> atmega 328 datasheet says 20-50kohm
[21:36:24] <cehteh> and 30-60kohm on the reset line
[21:36:44] <cehteh> table 28.2 DC characteristics
[21:41:16] <Levitator> Oh, another thing. How does the programmer signal that it is being programmed? Or does avrdude power off the USB port to force a reboot and then the bootloader listens for an update?
[21:42:51] <Levitator> Ah, there's the resistance. Thanks.
[21:44:04] <cehteh> whats your target board and how do you connect it?
[21:44:17] <Levitator> It's an Arduino with a built-in USB chip.
[21:44:37] <cehteh> then you program over the arduino bootloader
[21:45:07] <Levitator> Ok, but what triggers the bootloader, and how?
[21:45:21] <cehteh> there is a cap on the reset line connected with the DTS line from the usb->serial chip
[21:45:46] <Levitator> You know, I looked at the schematic and saw only power and RX/TX.
[21:45:48] <cehteh> whenever you connect something anew that pulls the chip into reset and starts the bootloader
[21:46:19] <cehteh> generally it can be pretty annoying, plugging in usb resetting the device :D i often cut that trace
[21:46:37] <cehteh> look closer at the schematics
[21:47:17] <Levitator> Yep, sure enough, it's in the product description.
[21:47:50] <cehteh> DTR not DTS
[21:49:54] <Levitator> Ah, yes, there it is DTR tied to reset across a .1uF cap.
