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[00:52:09] <rue_house> dont try to use simulators
[00:52:27] <rue_house> they will only tell you the simulation works, not the real world stuff
[00:57:43] * Casper looks at rue_house
[02:34:09] <grog_z> my pin change interrupt on pin 4 is conflicting with SoftwareSerial's interrupt handling :/
[04:43:40] <skz81> <grazfather> i have a hex that is too large for my real avrs, and simavr doesn't do what i need >> Maybe try simulavr ? It can dump gtkwaves files too. It dumps many more registers (IIRC -- all peripheral I/O regs, GP regs, ...)
[04:49:38] <theBear> you really need to use an interrupt for whatever you doing on pin 4 ? usually if you doing soft bangin', specially if you handling more than the most tiny atomic-ey possible aspect of it in the handler, you kinda wanna leave the interrupts alone so as not to screw with it
[04:49:55] <theBear> at least, i usually do :)
[05:13:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> grazfather, get a bigger AVR!
[05:17:37] <theBear> heh, they only make smaller ones now :)
[05:18:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> no atmega1284p anymore?
[05:19:27] <theBear> pfft, i dunno, i'm still getting thru my 90s2313 and a little tube of the first 8pin mini's that someone made gcc awesome enough to work with :)
[05:41:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> grazfather, if your hex is too big for the chip, it will be too big for the simulator of that chip....there are some limitations built into the chips for flash size and such..
[05:43:35] <GeneralStupid> Hmmmmm
[05:43:54] <GeneralStupid> i dont get any data on my spi bus -.-
[05:50:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> do you have a logic anaylzer or oscilloscope?
[05:50:33] <GeneralStupid> logic analyzer
[05:50:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> have it hooked up?
[05:51:52] <GeneralStupid> Lambda_Aurigae: yes but i will check that right now...
[05:52:05] <specing> speaking of logic analyzers
[05:52:26] <specing> what do I get to analyze 400 V signals?
[05:53:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> specing, neon bulbs.
[05:53:40] <specing> what
[05:53:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://whotv.com/2016/10/24/this-spiders-giant-dinner-is-freaking-out-the-internet/
[05:54:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neon_lamp
[05:54:13] <GeneralStupid> i would use a scope with proper probes
[05:54:53] <GeneralStupid> i dont know how they are called but i remember that we had some of these and called them 100:1 probes :D
[05:55:13] <GeneralStupid> Lambda_Aurigae: looks ok
[05:55:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah...there are high voltage probes for oscilloscopes.
[05:55:40] <GeneralStupid> looks like SCK and MOSI are costantly 1
[05:55:41] <specing> I was told that I'm not supposed to plug a scope into 220VAC
[05:55:51] <specing> and if I do so, to disconnect ground
[05:56:03] <GeneralStupid> of course, the power plug! (just in parts of europe i guess :-D)
[05:56:25] <specing> also its analog, so it does not give me a deeper insight into what the mcu is doing
[05:56:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> ok...gotta run to work.
[05:56:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> enjoy the spider carrying a mouse.
[05:57:06] <GeneralStupid> thats correct. But why did anyone build a mcu with 400V pins... i dont think so
[05:58:04] <GeneralStupid> so take a look with a LA _before_ the hv section of your circuit
[05:59:12] <specing> the problem is
[05:59:23] <specing> I want to know how those signals match with the AC waveform
[05:59:41] <specing> i.e. are the triacs activated at the zero crossing point or later or ...
[06:00:29] <GeneralStupid> sounds like you want to use a scope
[06:00:52] <specing> yes
[06:01:15] <specing> ok. So are there any fully FOSS scopes that plug into computers?
[06:01:36] <specing> bonus if it sits right on the pci-e bus
[06:03:04] <GeneralStupid> iam old. i like to have these boxes on my desk. Looks like iam a real scientist :D
[06:03:28] <specing> I have space problems
[06:04:13] <specing> also why would you have an expensive dedicated box with its own shitty monitor and tons of ram when you could just utilize the resources of a PC?
[06:04:58] <skz81> specing, AFAIK FOSS (open firmware) scope are DIY (actually, kits). USB plugged, and they tend to have lower specs than commercial ones, specially around 60-80EUR
[06:05:22] <specing> > USB
[06:05:26] <specing> no USB.
[06:05:33] <skz81> for this price I saw some 8CH hantek with signal generation
[06:05:38] <specing> atleast gigE if PCI-e is not possible
[06:05:44] <GeneralStupid> i just turn my head to the left and theres a cabinet full of stuff... so.
[06:05:46] <specing> I hate USB
[06:05:51] <specing> I really do
[06:05:54] <specing> it should die
[06:06:02] <GeneralStupid> there are some refurbished hameg scoped, too...
[06:06:04] <GeneralStupid> "cheap"
[06:06:18] <skz81> specing, unfortunaltly for you, it's widely (euphemism) used
[06:07:39] <GeneralStupid> the logic analyzer i have here is USB. And its ok. But for 'real stuff' we still have the big ones.
[06:07:58] <specing> I guess for a logic analyzer USB has enough bw
[06:08:01] <specing> not for a scope tho
[06:08:05] <GeneralStupid> and i dont know why, i learned to use scopes with an analog hameg scope... so i really like them
[06:10:23] <skz81> <specing> not for a scope tho >> Huh, why ? You want to record Terabytes of HF signal and need a high bandwitdh ? AFAIK, for most needs, the scope's internal buffer captures the waveform, and USB is used for displaying data on the PC...
[06:10:57] <GeneralStupid> skz81: thats exactly how it works with my logic analyzer...
[06:11:22] <GeneralStupid> thats why he cant just capture some cycles on 1Ghz :D
[06:11:23] <skz81> GeneralStupid, you mean buffering ?
[06:11:28] <GeneralStupid> skz81: yes
[06:11:46] <GeneralStupid> skz81: just want to support what you wrote
[06:12:04] <specing> skz81: less components on the scope => cheaper scope
[06:12:31] <specing> also smaller scope, so it doesen't take as much space as one full of redundant components
[06:12:45] <specing> PCI-e 3.0 is 16 GB/s to system ram
[06:12:50] <specing> 16 lanes.
[06:13:39] <specing> even a small $30 artix7 fpga can do a gigabyte/s to it. (2 GB/s if it has 6.6 GHz serdes)
[06:13:40] <GeneralStupid> but i think you are free to chose whatever tool you want to chose
[06:13:49] <skz81> GeneralStupid, thanks bro :) Mine(not really mine, long-term borrow) samples @ 100MHz anyway, IIRC.... so 1GHz... Let me dream of that...
[06:14:21] <GeneralStupid> skz81: its not really mine... its the one from work -.-
[06:14:56] <skz81> specing, ok, I see what you want. Never heard of this kind of board, though...
[06:15:04] <GeneralStupid> skz81: lecroy logicstudio 16. Its a nice thing
[06:15:29] <GeneralStupid> specing: i think there also needs to be a market for thos devices.
[06:15:42] <GeneralStupid> USB is very handy. But PCI-E is not...
[06:15:50] <specing> PCI-e is hotplug as well
[06:16:17] <GeneralStupid> ok -.- i see. It's a million dollar idea...
[06:16:35] <specing> I'm lacking about 5y of ee studies to do it
[06:17:00] <GeneralStupid> 5? :D
[06:17:07] <specing> GeneralStupid: masters
[06:17:20] <specing> I mean I could make the fpga hdl and the digital part of the board design
[06:17:23] <GeneralStupid> i got 6 of it...
[06:17:32] <specing> but I have no idea how to do the analog capture part
[06:17:53] <specing> GeneralStupid: Bologna reform bachelors is 3 years, masters is 2 years, PhD is 3 years
[06:18:26] <skz81> "mine" :
https://www.seeedstudio.com/Open-Workbench-Logic-Sniffer-p-612.html
[06:18:32] <GeneralStupid> specing: on my university... only the people without social life do it in 5 years.
[06:18:39] <GeneralStupid> everyone needs more time...
[06:18:45] <specing> GeneralStupid: that is generally the case here as well
[06:18:53] <specing> I took 4 years for CS+Math bachelors
[06:19:25] <specing> well all that was missing after 3y was the diploma.
[06:19:27] <skz81> it's 50MHz/100MSps on 32 CH, 100MHz/200MSps on 16 actually (cause of memory size I guess)
[06:19:30] <specing> yes, I have no social life
[06:19:36] <specing> you've guessed it
[06:19:38] <GeneralStupid> skz81: thats really cheap... 50$ nice.
[06:20:24] <specing> out of 50 enrolled, only 4-5 completed it in 3years from my class
[06:20:51] <specing> we were only 15 in the 3rd year as well
[06:20:58] <specing> everyone else dropped out
[06:21:31] <GeneralStupid> same here. we got 400 Bachelor starters and 35 who starts their master
[06:22:05] <specing> I think there are 10 of us that continued onto masters degree
[06:22:25] <specing> 4 from my generation and about ~6 from one after us
[06:24:01] <GeneralStupid> good for us :D
[07:01:43] <skz81> Maybe this means there should more selection before starting the class ? We had far less up-givers in my school, but lots were filtered out before begining.
[07:02:16] <skz81> Perhaps sad for a few, but avoid wasting time for a majority, too
[07:03:16] <specing> but that would increase unemployment rates!
[07:05:01] <skz81> not really, I mean, GeneralStupid example is 35 out of 400. I mean, you select 40-45 people (hoping you select the 35 'good' ones), then you have 5-10 people who give up.
[07:05:15] <skz81> Same result, but better focused effort
[07:06:10] <specing> there were no enrollment limits
[07:06:28] <specing> it is hard to find people that would enroll into this programme anyway
[07:07:34] <specing> I think about half of us had scholarships due to past achievements
[07:09:36] <skz81> no enrollment limit >> Just like in the "university" here in france, except for mediacal phD (not phD actually, but for 'bachelor' equivalent here said 'license', before the 'maîtrise' (master) and 'doctorat' (PhD). Almost same system for ten years now, standardized trhough EU.)
[07:10:58] <skz81> but in France, for engineering, very few go to university, since there are numerous (public as private) engineering schools, that provided a better recognized diploma (qualification).
[07:12:15] <specing> all private higher education here is just business, management and economics
[07:12:26] <specing> i.e. bullshit degrees in bullshit
[07:33:27] <skz81> specing, "here", I assume you're in the US ? Hey... UK could fit too AFAIK
[07:40:42] <specing> what
[07:40:56] <specing> since when do the US and the UK have gov funded higher education?
[07:41:45] <specing> we inherited gov funded higher education from socialist times
[07:41:49] <specing> (Slovenia)
[07:42:47] <specing> it is free up to PhD (you can get it paid there if you apply as a TA or on "young researcher" grants)
[07:43:03] <specing> all you have to pay is a 25-30 eur / year enrollment fee
[07:47:50] <GeneralStupid> specing: hmm e.g. berkeley (university of california) is a 'gov foundet' school. But its expensive to study there too
[07:48:21] <GeneralStupid> iam in germany. I like gov foundet universities :) It's not free but veeery cheap to study here
[08:09:53] <skz81> <specing> since when do the US and the UK have gov funded higher education? >> OK, misread what you implied. My mind stopped at "all private higher education" I guess :)
[08:12:15] <specing> unfortunately gov funded high education is not a good idea
[08:12:45] <specing> higher taxes -> more who finish leave the country
[08:13:25] <skz81> hmmm quickly said, maybe... But unsure.
[08:13:58] <skz81> My school was public and gov founded. Not the best, not the worst.
[08:14:31] <specing> there should be a contract that you should work in this country for atleast 2 years for every year you've been studiying
[08:14:40] <specing> or that you have to repay (with interest) if you leave
[08:14:43] <skz81> People paid thousand EUR /y for private school and were not provided more valuable teaching, IMHO
[08:14:53] <skz81> (I paid few hundred /y)
[08:15:05] <specing> skz81: there are no private engineering faculties here
[08:15:23] <GeneralStupid> Ok i discovered something...
[08:15:45] <GeneralStupid> (Topic: SPI with XMEGA 192A3U and ASF)
[08:16:51] <skz81> <specing> there should be a contract that you should work in this country for atleast 2 years for every year you've been studiying >> And what if I want to spent my youth outside my native country, learn more, and come back after ? Furthermore, most french people are staying as far I know.
[08:16:53] <GeneralStupid> CS is working now, it is pulled to low on transmission start. But MOSI and SCK are "dead" MOSI both are initialized with high and stay there
[08:19:00] <specing> skz81: if you can prove that you weren't working there, sure?
[08:21:24] <skz81> specing, I said "learn", not "study". Stubtle difference :) I guess people should ask a refund to their children once they get a job too.
[08:21:33] <skz81> nah, just kidding
[08:23:07] <skz81> GeneralStupid, sadly I don't know anything about ASF....
[08:23:17] <GeneralStupid> i have pull up and down resistors in my circuit... i think i wont need them... And the blackfin is also connected to that flash device... Normally it should not do anything but maybe it pulls the wires?!
[08:23:52] <GeneralStupid> (high or low-.-)
[08:30:46] <specing> skz81: children are a pension fund, so that is exactly what happens
[08:56:39] <sabor> children are the future destroyers of the world ;)
[09:11:06] <specing> indeed
[10:28:39] <pwillard> "Kill all children"... hmmm oh wait... I must be channeling Bender.
[10:30:35] <bss36504> Well first you fork the children, then kill them.
[10:34:39] <skz81> bss36504, if they don't die in the process !
[10:59:33] <grazfather> Lambda_Aurigae: yeah time if of the essence, i just need to reverse engineer this hex. It hard codes the stack pointer to 0xa00 on boot so i know it has at least 4KB of sram, so I inferred it would work on an atmeda 128, but i only have 168 and 328
[11:14:28] <grazfather> damn i don't have time anymore but i doubt it needed all the space: I should have modified the hex to lower the stack address and tried to flash it on my avrs
[15:27:46] <cehteh> mhm, is there some trick to generated a 90° phase rotated PWM signal with only one timer and its 2 compare units?
[15:29:57] <LeoNerd> I can't think of anything. you'd probably need to use some software assistance
[15:30:42] <cehteh> was my thinking too, just want to make sure i didnt miss something
[15:32:06] <cehteh> also it cant generate a inverted output (same pwm on 2 pins, one inverted) .. needs some external inverter
[15:58:03] <theBear> you mean 90deg phase rotated, or just 1/4 of pwm period delayed ? cos times like this ya gotta remember that the two vary radically at some areas of the 0-100% scale, and that's just assuming a fixed period/speed pwm approach to begin with
[16:47:39] <cehteh> theBear: yes 1/4 period only, or maybe 1/3 or 1/2 period .. 1/2 would be easy since i need inverted signal anyway, but after all its just idea/brainfart, thinking about a muliple phase synchronous buck regulator for driving high power leds
[17:41:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://hackaday.com/2016/10/27/basic-interpreter-hidden-in-esp32-silicon/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+hackaday%2FLgoM+%28Hack+a+Day%29
[19:18:39] <hetii> Hi :)
[19:21:12] <hetii> I have some board with AT91SAM7S64 and found some code example that use its usb interface and do bridge to UART. Original make file use arm-elf-gcc, I use instead arm-none-eabi-gcc and my sources was build. Now my question is, can I use avrprog to flash it or need some jtag for that ?
[19:39:00] <hetii> Ok nvm I run into bootloader :)
[20:00:40] <Emil> Holy shit devices can be ESD sensitive
[20:00:51] <Emil> I'm playing around with a Panasonic GridEye module
[20:01:02] <Tom_L> just caught on to that?
[20:01:15] <Emil> And if you touch the arduino headers on it it fucks it up :D
[20:01:28] <Tom_L> maybe poor grounding etc
[20:01:33] <Emil> Tom_L: well, never have I ever had problems with ESD, especially in actual devices
[20:01:37] <Tom_L> ground loops or such
[20:01:49] <Emil> I was debugging my code for 3 hours straigth because of it
[20:01:59] <Tom_L> capacitance
[20:02:19] <Tom_L> something out of place like that
[20:02:24] <Emil> And that, yeah
[20:02:48] <Emil> All the more loving to data lines that actually drive the device instead of pulling it high or low
[20:02:54] <Emil> SPI is god tier, i2c is cancer
[20:15:15] <hetii> hmm something is wrong...
[20:15:45] <hetii> I can compile and flash this IC but my led don`t blink :/
[20:16:34] <hetii> I build it by arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc and also arm-none-eabi-gcc
[20:42:31] <theBear> that's not esd sensitive, esd senstive is when yer get a finger within maybe a half inch of the module, suspect yer feel a tiny tickle on yer finger, and the module never does ANYTHING again
[20:43:33] <cehteh> real esd sensitive is when you touch it and its dead :D
[20:43:56] <theBear> old 4000series cmos chips were a lot like that, until recently mosfets were HORRIBLE for it, and even now ya wanna be a bit aware... they probly the only components i even think about static or having more volts on a i/o or data pin than is currently coming to the same chip from the main battery/supply or what you dealin with
[20:44:09] <theBear> cehteh, heh, great minds :)
[20:46:44] <cehteh> if you touch it and you are dead then the ESD was too strong for you :D
[20:49:27] <Casper> ... getting an email is noisy... "tidou da di" that was the iphone... "ding dong" .... that's my tablet "pop" ... that's thunderbird "da diii" .... that's my cell....
[20:51:27] <Snert> I got a spam imessage today. That app is henceforth barred from sending me anything.
[20:52:01] <Snert> it can't show up on my lockscreen or my notify center.
[20:53:41] <theBear> heh, my fone hasn't had a working speaker that does the ringing/handsfree/music+video stuff since i got it gifted a couple months or so back, so it never rings, and i can't remember checking any email account as a habit/just-in-case since about mid 2008, and i can't remember if it did make a noise.... then of course tablets, so far they only come close enough for me to touch if they broken and expected to go home after i fix em ... we are very different peo
[20:55:51] <Snert> take it easy, I'm off your lawn :)
[20:56:04] <theBear> i got lots of email i could be checking, heck, i got rememberit.blah.blah and fucking.remembe etc literally a single brick layer away in the next room there, and free reign to catch any and/or all the messages i was inside of those, easily hiding/locking/unlocking any of it in mere seconds, or say, adding a 5minute lifetime kinda made-up user in well under a minute, shared or new or whatever "mailbox" pointing at it, yaknow, if some not-too-stupid website
[20:56:04] <theBear> insists