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[00:26:03] <PoppaVic> zzz
[00:26:47] <_ami_> why do we use two ground planes at TOP and BOTTOM on 2 layer PCBs?
[00:28:13] <_ami_> its just a good practice? or there are some reason behind it. why can't we just have 1 plane for power and other plane for GND? it can give good capacitance?
[00:30:50] <_ami_> i have seen a youtube video on kicad in which presenter added "filled Zones" on both sides. Also twnx also mentioned abt it once, but i did not understand it at that time.
[00:31:11] <sabor> on 4 layer prints you often have a ground and vcc plane
[00:31:41] <_ami_> sabor: The reason for that is to have easier connections?
[00:31:43] <sabor> ond 2 layer i prefer 2 ground planes connected with lots of vias
[00:32:55] <sabor> if you make a gnd and a vcc plane it will be difficult to connect every part of the planes
[00:33:19] <_ami_> ah, true
[00:34:33] <_ami_> sabor: is it mandatory to have ground planes?
[00:34:55] <sabor> no, generally it works also without
[00:35:09] <_ami_> okay,
[00:35:57] <sabor> but if you make ground planes you get a "stronger" ground, less noise
[00:40:48] <_ami_> ok, that would matter most at high frequency.
[00:40:53] <_ami_> makes sense.
[00:40:54] <_ami_> thaks
[00:40:57] <_ami_> thanks*
[02:46:22] <dgriffi> does anyone here use xoscope? I'm trying to figure out how to change the background color of the scope display
[03:10:34] <Casper> I'm not using that POS
[03:10:37] <Casper> I use a real scope
[03:11:41] <salad> Cool story mr moneybags.
[03:11:45] <salad> lol
[03:12:34] <Casper> xoscope is mostly useless
[03:12:49] <Casper> anyone trully into electronics have no choice but get the proper tools
[03:16:27] <salad> I wasn't aware this was an elite club only for those who are truly into electronics.
[03:16:45] <dgriffi> Casper: I also have that feeling about xoscope... I was just desperate to get something done before the local hackerspace opens on wednesday
[03:17:11] <salad> Hear ye hear ye, until ye buys a real oscilloscope, thou must not wander from Arduino.
[03:17:52] <dgriffi> my problem is that my generated DTMF tones aren't good enough to reliably trigger DTMF decoders
[03:18:24] <dgriffi> so I think that either the LP filter isn't filtering right or 7 bits of resolution aren't enough.
[03:18:34] <dgriffi> or maybe a combination of the two.
[03:18:59] <Casper> dgriffi: the problem is that a soundcard is far from being linear... and only work on balanced AC (i.e. no DC offset)
[03:19:40] <Casper> hmm maybe your DTMF decoder expect a sinewave?
[03:21:05] <dgriffi> Casper: don't all DTMF decoders expect sine waves?
[03:22:44] <dgriffi> Casper: my hypothesis is that my generator is producing tones that are slightly too dirty, particularly when the tones are on the 4th row and 3-4th columns
[03:26:38] <Casper> or slightly off frequency
[03:30:09] <rue_bed> 8 pll's
[03:30:28] <rue_bed> and you look for combinations of 2 at a time
[03:30:31] <dgriffi> number 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, and 8 seem to decode just fine
[03:30:47] <rue_bed> 123A
[03:30:51] <rue_bed> 456B
[03:31:02] <rue_bed> 789C
[03:31:07] <rue_bed> *0#D
[03:31:19] <rue_bed> so, column 1 is fine
[03:31:32] <rue_bed> column 2 is fine
[03:31:39] <rue_bed> column 3 is broken
[03:31:51] <rue_bed> and row 4 is broken
[03:31:56] <dgriffi> bottom row of column 1 and 2 are iffy
[03:32:09] <dgriffi> a single tone is often detected twice
[03:32:33] <rue_bed> you didn't want to use use a 8870?
[03:32:43] <rue_bed> :)
[03:33:17] <rue_bed> http://ptolemy.eecs.berkeley.edu/eecs20/week2/keypad.gif
[03:33:30] <rue_bed> so your 1477Hz detector isn'tworking
[03:33:40] <dgriffi> I used multimon on linux as a decoder
[03:34:04] <rue_bed> this isn't on an avr?
[03:34:17] <dgriffi> I'm emitting DTMF from an AVR and detecting on linux
[03:34:21] <rue_bed> oooh
[03:34:28] <rue_bed> your 1477 freq is off
[03:35:29] <rue_bed> http://ptolemy.eecs.berkeley.edu/eecs20/week2/keypad.gif
[03:35:30] <rue_bed> http://ptolemy.eecs.berkeley.edu/eecs20/week2/keypad.gif
[03:35:30] <rue_bed> http://ptolemy.eecs.berkeley.edu/eecs20/week2/keypad.gif
[03:35:31] <rue_bed> http://ptolemy.eecs.berkeley.edu/eecs20/week2/keypad.gif
[03:35:31] <rue_bed> http://ptolemy.eecs.berkeley.edu/eecs20/week2/keypad.gif
[03:35:31] <rue_bed> http://ptolemy.eecs.berkeley.edu/eecs20/week2/keypad.gif
[03:35:41] <rue_bed> just incase you missed or ignored the link
[03:36:25] <rue_bed> they didn't include ABCD which go down off the right side
[03:36:42] <rue_bed> http://www.johnloomis.org/ece445/topics/touchtone/dtmf3.gif
[03:36:46] <rue_bed> like that
[03:36:56] <dgriffi> rue_bed:
https://github.com/DavidGriffith/bluebox-avr/issues/2
[03:37:31] <rue_bed> pff
[03:37:54] <rue_bed> na, a good decoder can tear into square just fine
[03:39:03] <rue_bed> http://www.simplecircuitdiagram.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Touch-Tone-Decoder.gif
[03:41:16] <Casper> also... multimon-ng seems to be so so
[03:41:35] <Casper> atleast at a minimum, it do not handle noise well
[03:41:52] <Casper> I remember when I got those DTFM on my RTL...
[03:42:01] <rue_bed> someday I should write a LM567 simulator on an avr
[03:42:18] <Casper> it failed to decode some numbers, or sometime detected them twice... but again, it had noise
[03:43:21] <rue_bed> I wonder if libspandsp is better
[03:45:27] <dgriffi> so why is okay of any other dtmf decoding software that might be worthwhile?
[03:53:14] <dgriffi> hmm... multimon-ng seems to decode everything okay... but doubles on nearly everything
[07:32:09] <pwillard> WHats wrong with
http://www.futurlec.com/Zarlink/MT8880CEpr.shtml ?
[08:27:47] <Jartza> pwillard: nothing, but it's not fun because there's no DIY ;)
[08:30:36] <bss36504> Why are you trying to decode touchtone signals in 2016?
[08:36:00] <pwillard> AH
[09:18:11] <rue_house> pwillard, ooh drat, 8880! 8870 must be the generator
[09:18:43] <rue_house> he's trying to generate them
[09:21:07] <pwillard> Ah. Sorry... I missed that
[09:23:25] <bss36504> But....why?
[10:19:30] <pwillard> Geez... I didn't even realise that some Arduino person did this.
http://playground.arduino.cc/Main/DTMF
[10:28:05] <LeoNerd> There's some crazy stuff around, for sure
[10:28:09] <skz81> It's square... And probably glitchy, which such code...
[10:29:31] <skz81> Hum, maybe not so much AS IS, but don't try to add interrupts I guess...
[10:30:56] <pwillard> Squarewave makes ugly tones
[10:33:51] <bss36504> LP filter it? Also if youre trying to generate tones, that doesnt seem too hard. Just calculate the least common multiple of the two tones, set up a timer interrupt and toggle the pin according to the appropriate multiples for each frequency
[10:44:23] <yids> nice contest :)
[10:44:34] <yids> was wondering if someone here has experience with avrnacl
[10:44:58] <yids> im trying to build it with no success
[10:45:43] <yids> wich is probably caused by my lack of understanding of building stuff, so was wondering if someone has an example makefile of a project using avrnacl
[10:47:00] <bss36504> Whats not working? i have like 0 experience with makefiles but maybe I'll know something
[10:48:42] <yids> its complaining about some vars not being defined, but they are defined and i included the header file in which they are defined
[10:49:40] <yids> this is my makefile
http://paste.debian.net/882898/
[10:53:53] <bss36504> What's complaining? Make? the compiler?
[10:54:21] <pwillard> can you share the source and the actual error?
[11:03:09] <yids> source:
https://git.puscii.nl/yids/avr-pager/blob/master/avr-src/lib-test.c error:
http://paste.debian.net/882911/
[11:04:14] <bss36504> Looks like an error inside randombytes.c
[11:05:01] <pwillard> FYI: Because of what avrnacl *is*... they have a caveat. "Some of the tests may not work on an ATmega with less flash and RAM"
[11:06:09] <yids> but im not trying to run the tests, and acutally the tests build gine
[11:06:11] <yids> fine*
[11:07:48] <pwillard> yeah
[11:11:38] <pwillard> Too much does not jive between your makefile/source code and compiler complaints...
[11:13:30] <yids> what do you mean?
[11:42:16] <pwillard> you have stuff entered in the MAKEFILE but commented out in the Source file...
[14:33:22] <Posterdati> hi
[14:33:59] <Posterdati> I'm using avr-gcc 4.9.3 and I can't link using the gcc driver: incompatible library version (on FreeBSD 10)
[14:34:06] <Posterdati> any hints?
[14:38:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> recompile it all?
[14:39:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> never heard of a gcc driver though.
[15:01:03] <yids> also wondering if anyone has experience with
http://www.airspayce.com/mikem/arduino/RadioHead/
[15:02:53] <yids> wondering how to compile that withouth using the arduino build system and libraries
[15:03:28] <yids> or if anyone has any tips on doing something with rf and avr that would be cool, im interested in doing packet radio with avrs basicly
[15:10:17] <bss36504> yids: looks like they have a lot of drivers for RF chips already which is nice
[15:10:25] <yids> yes
[15:10:55] <yids> but I cant get it to build without using arduino build environment
[15:11:02] <yids> and i hate the arduino build stuff
[15:11:06] * LeoNerd finally gets around to ordering himself an actual 0.1" pogo pin adapter
[15:12:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's all integrated with ardweeny crap.
[15:12:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> would have to rewrite it.
[15:13:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've done AVR AM transmitter and receiver before.
[15:13:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> range of,,,oh,,,,1 meter
[15:13:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> baud rate somewhere in the 300 range.
[15:13:34] <LeoNerd> yids: I don't do any RF exactly from AVR chips, but I quite like the nRF24L01 modules.. they're handy for adding a cheap easy radio link
[15:24:23] <Posterdati> Lambda_Aurigae: no way
[15:25:55] <Posterdati> Lambda_Aurigae: linking neve happen due to this error
[15:26:24] <Posterdati> Lambda_Aurigae: the gcc command can link too
[15:27:05] <Posterdati> Lambda_Aurigae: avr-gcc -Wl,--start-group ... LD OPTIONS ... -Wl,--end-group
[15:27:43] <Posterdati> Lambda_Aurigae: this is said gcc to use the ld driver
[15:45:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> ld isn't a driver
[15:45:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> ld is the linker program
[15:45:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> sounds to me like you have the wrong binutils installed for that version of avr-gcc
[15:51:49] <Posterdati> Lambda_Aurigae: yes, ld is the gnu linker, but you can link using gcc...
[16:30:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> gcc calls the linker
[16:31:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> and it sounds like your linker is the wrong version
[16:52:02] <Posterdati> it is the default installation for freebsd
[16:56:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> then, something is borked?
[16:57:07] <Posterdati> maybe some weird side effects due to misplaced flags
[18:11:28] <eszett> hi guys
[18:11:51] <eszett> i have a question, is there similar chip to the atmega32u4 which has a larger pin pitch?
[18:12:08] <cehteh> looked at the datasheet?
[18:12:26] <eszett> I dont have the overview over all the atmegas..
[18:13:19] <cehteh> atmel has a comparsion page where you can list, filter and sort them feature wise
[18:13:57] <LeoNerd> The 32U4 has two package sizes
[18:13:58] <eszett> yes?
[18:14:26] <eszett> basically im looking for a similar chip that a noob can handsolder
[18:14:47] <cehteh> http://www.atmel.com/products/microcontrollers/avr/default.aspx?tab=parameters
[18:14:49] <LeoNerd> I don't think Atmel do any DIP-sized chips that can talk USB
[18:14:59] <eszett> cehteh, great, man!
[18:15:14] <eszett> Leonerd: :-(
[18:15:42] <cehteh> dip with that much pins will be huge ..
[18:15:57] * cehteh remmebers the m68k in big dip package
[18:15:58] <eszett> wait IIRC there was one..
[18:28:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> cehteh, I have some....love those things!
[18:28:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> real motorola 68000 processors in dip package.
[18:28:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> bought a dozen dev boards some years back for a dollar each that had them on board.
[18:28:43] <cehteh> i think i have some z80 somewhere
[18:29:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> eszett, only manufacturer that makes anything usb in a dip package that I've found is microchip with a few different pic and pic32 chips.
[18:29:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> 68000 was bigger than z80
[18:29:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> 64pins!
[18:30:20] <eszett> Lambda: ok, unfortunately my firmware framework is compatible to AVR chips (and Arm Cortex-M) only :-(
[18:30:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> z80 was only a piddly 40 pins.
[18:31:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> eszett, atmega32u4 comes in a 44tqfp
[18:32:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> atmega32u2 comes in a 32tqfp
[18:32:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> those are hand solderable, even for newbs.
[18:32:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> not fun sometimes but doable.
[18:32:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> and if you spend the money on a schmart board, an 8 year old can do it.
[18:33:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> schmartboards are kinda fun and good for newbs...they have raised ridges between the pins and the pads are pre-soldered.
[18:33:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> you just set the chip in place and heat the pins down to the pads.
[18:34:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> aawww...they stopped making bga boards.
[18:34:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> those were sweet.
[18:36:26] <eszett> Schmartbnoards, never heard of it, but sounds handy.
[18:36:56] <eszett> is there alot of extra charge for those schmarts?
[18:37:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> dangit..they stopped making 0.8mm pitch boards too it looks like.
[18:37:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah...6 dollars for a tqfp48 board
[18:38:18] <eszett> wow, I'll take a closer look, thanks for the hint
[18:38:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> but you can get atmega32u4 in 0.5mm qfn package.
[18:38:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> and they have boards for that.
[18:39:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://schmartboard.com/schmartboard-ez-5mm-pitch-48-pin-qfp-qfn-to-dip-adapter-204-0014-01/
[18:40:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> I bought a bunch of them some years ago when they were kinda new.
[18:40:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> what they do basically is build up the solder mask around the pads and heavily tin them.
[21:25:08] <Evidlo> Should a UART theoretically be able to write to itself with no problems?
[21:25:30] <Evidlo> I'm doing that now for testing purposes, but I miss a few bytes occasionally
[22:20:53] <rue_shop3> hmm, Evidlo in the interrupt?
[22:21:09] <rue_shop3> what do you do if the transmitter isn't finished transmitting?
[22:21:28] <rue_shop3> I can see a 1 character latency
