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[09:09:51] <bss36504> carabia: Well that's good. So far ol' Elm Chan is 2 for 2.
[09:48:16] <wasm> in old power supply its +3v and +12v, if I check it from voltmeter it shows 9v, what does that mean, +3v is actually -ve terminal ???
[09:49:15] <bss36504> sounds like you're measuring from 12V+ terminal to 3V+ terminal. Difference is 9V
[09:49:33] <bss36504> assuming they have a common ground
[09:49:46] <bss36504> or more precisely, a common V- terminal
[09:56:08] <wasm> bss36504 there is a com wire. that's mean I need to join both +12v and +3v to get +9v and now I should connect ground and this resultant +9v to load?
[10:03:24] <bss36504> You measured 9V on some wires, doesnt matter what they are. Connect those to the load if you want the load to get 9V.
[10:03:59] <bss36504> But, your load's "gnd" will be floating 3V above the "common" terminal in the power suppl
[10:04:49] <wasm> I have a confusion, I am thinking +12v is +ve terminal and +3v is actually -ve terminal, so I can turn on LED of 9v by connecting relative terminal, so I am wrong?
[10:07:09] <bss36504> If i am interpreting what you are saying, yes, in this case your +12v is +ve and +3v is -ve
[10:30:08] <DKordic> wasm: First of all which power suply exactly?! It is correct in (sufficiently simple) theory.
[11:26:43] <theBear> pick up your meter and a battery or 3, start with one battery and 2 probes, black to - end and red to +, read screen, swap red/black and read screen again... now check the battery label.. did it magically change to say -1.5V when you cahgned the meter connections to it ? 3v doesn't exist alone, 0v doesn't exist alone, voltage is potential between two specific things, and that's all it can ever be
[11:31:52] <theBear> you can do lots of things with the other two batteries and th esame meter to prove how silly a number that only mentions any one point in a circuit is... while we at it,. you can lineup 100 batteries from one end of your 1batt/2*meter-leads in the last example, and sure, you've got a 150v battery that's really long, and a 1..5v battery touching one end of it, but notice that no matter how you move the probes around on your one batt, you don't get ANY
[11:31:52] <theBear> hint that there's 150v battery sitting there.. it's all circuits in a loop, potential between two connected/related points... that should be enough tests to show if you got 9v or that 3v is still 3v no matter what you connect to it
[11:54:23] <carabia> bss36504: yea, the only downside is that it won't do progressive jpegs but that's life i guess.
[11:59:19] <carabia> theBear: or then you can just grab hot mains leads and stick them in your mouth, while making sure you've got a nice slow-blow fuse (ideally a 10 mm bolt and upwards) on the line
[12:00:30] <theBear> carabia, sure you could do that, but much like doing something dangerous with the batteries, i didn't and wouldn't suggest doing it
[12:00:44] <theBear> i had live 240vac in my mouth, it's not fun
[12:00:59] <carabia> :D
[12:01:15] <carabia> well, then actuallyy you did try it.
[12:01:18] <carabia> -y
[12:02:08] <carabia> theBear: would you care to elaborate though?
[12:09:06] <theBear> umm, nah, no rant value from my pov, and no interesting or useful or even really other things than i mentioned involved, tho notice that i am implying that there is nothing dangerous about what i said, unless of course you can get your hands 150 battery lengths apart from each other without any limb or trunk severing, and even then i bet you couldn't kill yerself, likely not even get a quick wallop enough to make you break a sweat and get teh od heart
[12:09:06] <theBear> beating
[12:13:08] <carabia> it's really hard trying to follow your train of thought
[12:15:23] <carabia> oh oh i got it, yeah, nothing dangerous with the batteries. Yes yes. But my suggestion was unrelated.
[12:15:45] <carabia> still i am really interested in how you ended up eating 240 vac
[12:16:00] <carabia> it's not like the wires snaked up into your mouth on their own?
[12:21:51] <theBear> oh, but your suggestion ain't gonna teach anyone about the folley of the way "ground" and "0v" are abused and generally meaningless in the bigger picture these days, or that just cos you measure somethign with the black probe connected to it, doesn't magically make it v- or vee or vss or 0v or anyting else
[12:23:11] <theBear> i spent many thousands, probly 100's of thousand hours working on all sorts of powereed and often live valve gear, and 240/415vac 1 and 3phase things over the yaers... there aint' a lotta ways to get shocked i haven't done at least a little bit somewhere
[12:28:28] <bss36504> You know carabia, this is explaining some things...
[12:31:45] <carabia> Oh are we going to go there :)
[12:33:05] <carabia> theBear: I don't think it's "abused these days" any more than ever before. It's a potential difference. There was once this wise guy who was under the impression of everything being relative... perhaps he was right
[12:34:06] <carabia> i think i should be doing something constructive rather than ircing...
[12:34:25] <bss36504> im at work and irc is still more productive :P
[12:35:40] * Casper offers diet pepsi to theBear
[12:35:41] <Casper> hi ya
[12:37:22] <theBear> carabia, if people don't understand what potential difference means, or are asking things like if +3v lines coming out of a big many output psu are really 0v and how that is possible, i think it 's fair to say they are abused
[12:38:31] <Casper> hmmm just tought about a way to explain it a bit
[12:38:57] <Casper> kinda with a waterfall, still need to figure out the wording, but basically... the 2 water heights...
[12:39:27] <Casper> should be easy to explain this way...
[12:39:31] <carabia> yes, basically you take the live wire
[12:39:34] <Casper> as it is physical...
[12:39:36] <carabia> and the neutral wire...
[12:39:43] <carabia> and you say "aaaa"
[12:39:52] <Casper> and stick it into flyback?
[12:40:15] <carabia> no, arduino
[12:42:26] <Casper> you don't know flyback then...
[12:42:31] <Casper> flyback aka fishhead
[12:49:04] <Tom_itx> what a treat you're missing
[12:51:07] <inflex> lo folks
[13:23:46] <dreamer> anyone here experienced with avrdude and usbasp programmers? I'm trying to program a kit that uses an at89s52, with some added avrdude.conf settings I found on avrfreaks.net, but no succes:
https://bin.laglab.org/?da2c881185586474#S/hxAfvrHaHLX+fEjAtSFVHTX47mmy9NfvusOgTMiiY=
[13:29:09] <carabia> all of the firmwares don't support -B switch
[13:31:30] <dreamer> usbasp firmwares?
[13:32:34] <carabia> yes
[13:32:42] <dreamer> without it I still get the rest of the output from the paste
[13:33:01] <carabia> well then i guess you're shit outta luck
[13:33:05] <dreamer> pffft
[13:33:40] <carabia> don't be socialist scum and use usbasps
[13:34:22] <carabia> get a genuine microchip(r)(tm) jtagice3
[13:34:48] * LeoNerd has a Pololu programmer that's quite nice
[13:34:58] <LeoNerd> The one with the UART
[13:35:58] <carabia> you need ice so you can do dw to debug your high-tech schedulers and c++ running on some attiny.
[13:36:12] <LeoNerd> Nahh.. You can do dW from anything with a UART ;)
[13:36:32] <LeoNerd> It's just onewire async serial at ... hrm. I think 1/64th the clock frequency. Though I might misremember
[13:36:59] <LeoNerd> You just need some nonstandard baud rate division
[13:37:13] <carabia> too hacky, too socialist. Use genuine MCP.
[13:50:21] <theBear> don't be a decadent capitalist and pay more for less capable and/or flexible versions of the same thing
[13:50:49] <theBear> if you capitalist you might not be worried about how that disadvantages everyone, but you should care how it disadvantages you
[15:07:29] <carabia> theBear: could be true if you didn't base it on a false pretense
[15:08:06] <carabia> you saying a usbasp is more capable and flexible than a fucking jtagice? ok.
[15:09:29] <theBear> always assuming words into my mouth, if i wanted to say that i woulda said that, but i didn't did i ?
[15:09:39] <bss36504> Typical tech hippie nonsense that somehow the hivemind of unpaid amateurs can do better in their spare time than the professionals that do it full time and have the resources of the company backing their efforts >:)
[15:10:17] <theBear> so y'all be careful not to turn the universe inside out with irony accusing false pretenses on false pretenses
[15:10:31] <carabia> theBear: that is in fact exactly what you implied.
[15:11:23] <carabia> I said use jtagice. You replied "...and pay more for less capable and/or flexible versions of the same thing"
[15:11:56] <theBear> and fuck you too bss, aside from being a long time industry pro, maybe where i made these observations and opinions, i base these things on facts, and nice provable non-opinion-alterable kinda ones
[15:12:15] <bss36504> I was being somewhat sarcastic, hence the >:)
[15:12:46] <bss36504> I think there is a lot of tech-hippie BS, but I wasnt actually trying to ruffle your feathers
[15:13:00] <theBear> i thought that's an angry eyebrows.. kids have ruined the simple long standing understandable art of smilies
[15:13:32] <theBear> aight, i forgive your bit :-) and i come pre-ruffled today for reference
[15:13:36] <h4x0riz3d> >:( angry
[15:13:46] <bss36504> Oh I meant it more as a smirk or something, like I'm intentionally trolling you in a good natured way
[15:13:50] <h4x0riz3d> >8( angry intensifies
[15:14:17] <carabia> there is however, the case to be made, that companies in good standing have something called...
[15:14:20] <carabia> wait the word escapes me
[15:14:26] <bss36504> >|( Geordi LaForge's anger intensifies
[15:14:27] <carabia> CUSTOMER SUPPORT
[15:14:48] <carabia> geordi laforge should upgrade to a KITT scanner
[15:14:53] <bss36504> hahaha
[15:15:48] <carabia> TNG is the best of the bunch.
[15:15:55] <bss36504> I'm not going to speak for theBear but IMO the Atmel ICE certainly beats out any of the open source tools out there, and even after the price hike, I'd still buy one in a heartbeat.
[15:16:15] <bss36504> You could argue that the open sourcey ones are at least on par with like an avrISP mkII or something
[15:16:19] <bss36504> but certainly not a real ICE
[15:16:59] <h4x0riz3d> and usbasp is not comparable with the avrispmk2 clone
[15:17:19] <bss36504> yeah see I dont even know, I have zero experience with non-atmel tools haha
[15:17:23] <bss36504> I was spoiled early on
[15:17:26] <h4x0riz3d> you wanna make your day exciting? get a usbasp!
[15:17:32] <h4x0riz3d> a chinese one
[15:17:48] <bss36504> I dont want to spend time fucking with a usbass just to try and make an led blink. I'm past that, I want to *develop*
[15:18:29] <theBear> oh you still excited,... i just came back to say that i could make some comments about elegance or lack thereof in the real ice hw and conceptual/general implementation , regardless of function and wheteher it is affected in any amount or regard by this, if youthought it would help, but i got better htings to do
[15:18:36] <h4x0riz3d> btw, this is my programmer:
http://i.imgur.com/EMZzUdq.jpg
[15:18:56] <carabia> i'm willing to bet my left nut, that the most frequently asked question here is something along the lines of "hi guys, i got this cheap usb programmer off ebay. I can't program my [insert atmel chip]"
[15:19:19] <bss36504> h4x0riz3d: Oh sweet baby jesus
[15:19:24] <theBear> but i still woulda said it clearly if i meant the ice, i picked my words carefully, and still feel they explain all this, or the bits that do or don't apply to me perfectly :)
[15:19:27] <dreamer> I guess I should try
http://www.instructables.com/id/ARDUINO-AS-A-8051-PROGRAMMER/
[15:19:55] <carabia> theBear: moral of the story: buy chinese, get chinese, be a commie.
[15:20:04] <bss36504> theBear: What do you mean though? Are you pro-ICE or against (in favor of less featured open source options, that is)?
[15:20:37] <bss36504> Like if we sit here and pro-con it, the ICE, and really any of atmel's tools (except that sack of shit Dragon) will win or at the very least tie
[15:20:55] <bss36504> only real selling point of a USBASP or a mkII clone is price.
[15:21:09] <bss36504> and in the case of the asp, marginal performance.
[15:21:10] <theBear> bss36504, neither, i just don't like this other dudes attitude and patrticularly dislike the way things keep getting attributed to me that i just haven't said
[15:21:13] <carabia> If you're go-for-atmel, I really can't see the point in not having the ICE.
[15:21:34] <bss36504> oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. no sarcasm.
[15:21:47] <bss36504> oh wait, I reread what you said just now
[15:21:58] <bss36504> yeah, carabia, stfu >:)
[15:22:04] <carabia> :(
[15:22:05] <bss36504> dont poke theBear
[15:22:16] <bss36504> im just kiddin
[15:22:17] <theBear> howbout not needing it, or saving lots of money ? they're both on my list for not having one for about a decade of knowing what they do and where to get them
[15:22:36] <bss36504> Well that's fair reasoning I suppose
[15:22:58] <h4x0riz3d> bss36504 what? you like it? ;P~
[15:23:13] <h4x0riz3d> stk200 ftw
[15:23:26] <theBear> bss36504, again, you been fine, you ain't done anything but be lucky enough to joke at a bad moment, but i like jokes, so i can ignore that when i know how it got there
[15:23:35] <bss36504> Im sure you've been tooling with computers for longer than i've been alive, and I guess I was born into IDEs and debuggers. It's what I'm comfortable with, and more importantly what I'm productive with, which is important if you or your boss values your time
[15:23:45] <bss36504> haha good good
[15:24:21] <carabia> i gotta agree with bss36504 said, I 'spose
[15:24:46] <bss36504> It's not that I cant survive with a serial port or an LED indicator and a dirt-simple programmer, but why would i drive a base model honda civic when atmel is handing me the keys to the Ferrari for the modest price of about $100-$150USD?
[15:25:06] <carabia> but from what you said theBear I could extrapolate...
[15:25:08] <bss36504> and that's when the civic costs $20 and sometimes doesnt start
[15:25:22] <theBear> h4x0riz3d, i'm askin fer troublehere, but there's no denying the 200 is a more elegant design electrically and conceptually than a 500 style, if you don't count banging timing out a parport as unacceptable, which very few would since it bacme practical/doable
[15:25:57] <theBear> carabia, obviously you fucking couldn't, or you're jsut really bad at extrapolation
[15:26:00] <carabia> I'm pulling this out of thin air but, let's say the ICE (more or less in its current form) has been on the market for say, 5-6 years. Accurate number doesn't matter
[15:26:17] <carabia> and let's put the median cost at say $100
[15:26:50] <carabia> so, if you'd be working with atmel stuff during that six years, $100 over 5 years is a huge investment, for an industry pro?
[15:26:54] <dreamer> so for 10-fold the price you get extra shine
[15:27:15] <h4x0riz3d> i'll never buy a chinese usbasp again, in fact, i don't want any usbasp
[15:27:38] <carabia> also, atmel has a broad line of products now, and the ICE does all of them.
[15:27:42] <bss36504> dreamer: are you implying the ICE is all shine?
[15:27:45] <h4x0riz3d> this stk200 crap works, it's better than nothing, and better than a usbasp ;P~
[15:27:54] <bss36504> h4x0riz3d: very true.
[15:28:11] <h4x0riz3d> but at work i use an olimex avrisp2 clone
[15:28:20] <h4x0riz3d> cuz pdi
[15:28:27] <theBear> that's a lotta addictive or just plain non-addictive things i like, and yes, in my world, even professional, that is a lot to spend on something you don't need or even find yourself musing regularly migth be useful for what you doing now
[15:28:53] <h4x0riz3d> that has a few tricky aspects (like having to use an older version of avrdude) but is acceptable
[15:28:57] <dreamer> bss36504: no, I have no idea what it is. I'm a total noob in this avr world
[15:29:00] <carabia> I get your argument on "not needing", alright, if you do simple stuff. Surely, you don't /need/ it
[15:29:04] <carabia> I agree with that
[15:29:08] <bss36504> I guess relative cost is subjective. I am fortunate enough to have an income/expense ratio to buy shit whether I strictly need it or not
[15:29:15] <carabia> but you saying it's "lots of money" for an industry pro. Ok.
[15:29:26] <carabia> well, lots of money even for a hobbyist. No.
[15:30:16] <carabia> bss36504: well it is. But it's relative cost in the field of electronics that puts a reference frame to it
[15:30:26] <bss36504> dreamer: Oh well it's certainly not extra shine. It's the nominal, and the clones and lesser models are rusty by comparison. Atmel ICE supports all AVR and ARM chips that atmel currently makes, and it supports all communication protocols.
[15:30:43] <carabia> and, it does it out-of-the-box.
[15:30:52] <theBear> you're a fucking smart one aren't yer, boring and smartass and not good at extrapolating, yeah, i got better stuff to do today, don't worry, if i hospitalize anyone later on i'll give em an extra boot for you
[15:31:13] <bss36504> carabia: Yeah I'd agree. I've never worked at a company that would scoff at $100 for a programmer. If I went to my boss and asked for it he'd be like "yeah, sure whatever, buy 10 i dont fucking care"
[15:31:46] <carabia> I guess "industry pros" are wide and varied... What was that smiley again? Oh yes >:)
[15:31:49] <bss36504> " theBear: if i hospitalize anyone later on i'll give em an extra boot for you " <<<< LOOOOOOOOOOL
[15:31:55] <theBear> and it's not fucking relative when you got a fixed amount of money and like eating and paying rent somewhat regularly, it's very fucking absolute lots of money in those times fora hobbyist
[15:32:15] <dreamer> well, I'm not going to get an ICE for programming this little shitty kit ;)
[15:32:15] <theBear> l8r yall
[15:32:27] <carabia> if a hobbyist is preoccupied with addording to eat and pay the rent, I'm sure he shouldn't be doing electronics in the first place
[15:32:43] * bss36504 waves
[15:32:44] <carabia> that's why i referenced it against it.
[15:32:56] <carabia> affording*
[15:33:01] <theBear> and i think fuckwits shouldn't be allowed in irc, but neither of us makes the rules apparently
[15:33:08] <carabia> :D
[15:33:24] <carabia> kiss and a hug?
[15:33:36] <h4x0riz3d> no!
[15:33:40] <bss36504> carabia: Its ok, theBear yelled at me via IRC like 4 years ago and now look at us, still strangers, but somehow pals!
[15:33:48] * h4x0riz3d gives both of them shotguns
[15:33:57] <carabia> gimme buckshot.
[15:34:03] <bss36504> no slug?
[15:34:05] <carabia> nah
[15:34:09] <carabia> well yes
[15:34:33] <bss36504> fuck i wish it was 5pm.
[15:34:40] <bss36504> ready to gtfo of my office for the weekend
[15:35:00] <bss36504> got back from being on vacation this monday and it's been painful all week
[15:35:01] <carabia> i'm kind of worried for all the capitalists in the vicinity of theBear today.
[15:35:46] <bss36504> I like the anonymity of IRC but sometimes I wish I had a face for a name
[15:35:49] <carabia> and i'm praying for there to be no atmel reps marketing their debuggers.
[15:36:07] <carabia> s/atmel/mcp
[15:36:35] <h4x0riz3d> microchip?
[15:36:42] <carabia> indeed
[15:37:02] <h4x0riz3d> we got their pickit3 programmer at work
[15:37:02] <theBear> bss36504,
http://testing.fucking.rememberit.com.au/pics/bearhead/bearhead%20new%2017-6-13.jpg this time i'm really not gonna look even if i see it flashin when i come past
[15:37:30] <h4x0riz3d> this sh*t sux, it's annoying as hell, yes it works.. for the basic tasks.. but.. dafuq
[15:37:43] <h4x0riz3d> i wanna burn it
[15:38:09] <bss36504> theBear: I always avoid photos.
[15:39:04] <bss36504> h4x0riz3d: get yourself a programmer for ChristmaHanuKwanzica!
[15:39:52] <carabia> h4x0riz3d: but the atmel reps are technically mcp reps now
[15:40:04] <h4x0riz3d> :~(
[15:40:24] <carabia> for Allahmas?
[15:40:33] <h4x0riz3d> one of two things is gonna happen:
[15:40:54] <h4x0riz3d> 1) microchip will learn how to be better from atmel
[15:41:06] <h4x0riz3d> 2) microchip will ruin avr
[15:41:18] <carabia> "better" is a very loaded term, young man
[15:41:42] <bss36504> hahaha
[15:42:00] <bss36504> Idk, Im definitely in the Atmel>microchip camp
[15:42:19] <bss36504> But maybe atmel will integrate some cooler MCP peripherals into their chips
[15:42:31] <bss36504> but AVR is a vastly superior architecture over 8-bit pics
[15:42:32] <h4x0riz3d> like what?
[15:42:38] <carabia> agreed
[15:43:00] <bss36504> idk, I never cared much, but people complain that pic has a better peripheral routing matrix, DACs even on low end chips,
[15:43:10] <carabia> but pic32s are vastly superior to tinys and (x)megas
[15:43:17] <bss36504> For sure
[15:43:27] <carabia> and cheaper, actually.
[15:43:44] <h4x0riz3d> why do you compare pic32 to 8bit avr?!
[15:43:46] <carabia> though atmel has their arm-line, but they aren't really bringing anything to the table than what's not already out on the arm-market
[15:44:00] <bss36504> I'm at a point where i have no interest in learning proprietary 32bit archs though. for me it's AVR or ARM
[15:44:01] <Emil> Does anyone have a interrupt driven i2clib?
[15:44:19] <carabia> h4x0riz3d: okay, you can compare it to xmegas too
[15:44:24] <carabia> and even to arms.
[15:44:49] <Emil> bss36504: "arm"
[15:45:02] <bss36504> Emil: what do you mean?
[15:45:06] <carabia> atmel has their arm-line, but it's kind of ~you know, they aren't bringing anything revolutionary to the table than what's already out on the arm-market
[15:45:26] <carabia> well, scrap that, they have their IDE
[15:45:35] <Emil> bss36504: propietary archs
[15:46:01] <bss36504> Emil: Oh well obviously I meant the ones that dont have TEN BILLION (literally) DEVICES IN THE MARKET
[15:46:06] <carabia> but it uses gcc. just like what you can do without it, and you can always use CMSIS
[15:46:20] <h4x0riz3d> i can't stand the 8bit pics with their huge lack of RAM and the banking sh*t
[15:46:41] <Emil> bss36504: I mean that you can only transfer a fraction of one arm knowledge to another arm
[15:46:48] <carabia> avrs are kind of lackluster in the ram-department, too.
[15:46:54] <bss36504> every pic asm program is "move knife to register, move knife from register into eyeball"
[15:47:04] <carabia> Emil: in what sense?
[15:47:09] <bss36504> I totally disagree
[15:47:31] <Emil> carabia: for example stm32 to some other manufacturer
[15:47:33] <h4x0riz3d> carabia eh? how much RAM does the fattest pic18 have? less than 4KB
[15:47:37] <carabia> Emil: not at all
[15:47:41] <learath> heh
[15:47:49] <bss36504> I can write the same software for one brand or another, and the arm will run it. I might have to rewrite some peripheral drivers, but my code is very much the same
[15:48:25] <Emil> bss36504: that's not the propietary part of it
[15:48:44] <carabia> well surely
[15:49:06] <carabia> Emil: with CMSIS you can hop to whatever
[15:49:49] <bss36504> yeah that's what I'm saying. I'd rather invest my energy into learning the intricacies of ARM cores than into learning pic32 or avr32 (yuck) or others.
[15:50:24] <carabia> h4x0riz3d: that said however, the only megas that come with a bunch of ram really are the umm
[15:50:27] <Emil> eh
[15:50:29] <carabia> 1284?
[15:50:32] <bss36504> because like carabia CMSIS helps with portability, and a lot of the functions in a given controller are contained fully within the core, in this case ARM, so a lot of the knowledge is widely applicable
[15:51:30] <h4x0riz3d> carabia there are quite a bunch of (x)megas with +4KB ram
[15:51:51] <carabia> so now you're comparing 8-bit pics with xmegas?
[15:51:58] <h4x0riz3d> why not?
[15:52:07] <carabia> 24fs go up to 32K
[15:52:22] <carabia> and 32s go up to... a lot
[15:52:26] <bss36504> xmega is as much an 8-bit avr as a mega
[15:52:29] <h4x0riz3d> xmega32a4u is similar to pic18f45k80 for example
[15:52:44] <carabia> well alright, fair
[15:53:11] <carabia> I don't know even how much ram do the highest end xmegas have
[15:53:24] <bss36504> Well do we count the ones with an SRAM interface?
[15:53:25] <carabia> but i'm quite sure they come with a steep price tag as they're not that popular
[15:53:32] <bss36504> cause then you can add like 4MB
[15:53:41] <h4x0riz3d> bss36504 i don't count those
[15:54:01] <h4x0riz3d> pic18 tops up to LESS than 4KB ram.. that's all i'm saying
[15:54:02] <carabia> I think we weren't counting adding external memory
[15:54:04] <bss36504> Well one of the 256A series xmegas will have the most
[15:54:34] <h4x0riz3d> i got 8KB ram on the atmega2561 even
[15:55:05] <carabia> it's decent, 1284 has 16
[15:55:10] <carabia> but that's about it
[15:55:23] <bss36504> the 256 A3U has 16K sram
[15:55:57] <h4x0riz3d> how can't pic18 have more?!
[15:55:59] <bss36504> I've said it before, I'll say it again: the xmega is what the mega should have been, but it's like 5-10 years too late
[15:56:16] <carabia> 24f line of pics go up to 32K, and can have an external memory interface
[15:56:25] <h4x0riz3d> is sram so precious for microchip?!
[15:56:29] <bss36504> the 8bit trend is winding down, to be supplanted by the ARM trend, but the peripheral set in the xmegas is really quite cool
[15:56:54] <bss36504> no h4x0riz3d, My guess is they are on a very old technology which is why their chips are dirt cheap
[15:57:05] <bss36504> but theres only so much die space for sram and flash
[15:57:15] <carabia> bss36504: perhaps, but even pic32s are very cheap
[15:57:25] <h4x0riz3d> pic18f45k80 is not much cheaper than xmega32a4u last time i checked
[15:57:28] <carabia> though it's mips4000...
[15:57:32] <h4x0riz3d> they were actually the same price
[15:58:23] <carabia> eh, no
[15:59:14] <carabia> well, okay in 4k you get close
[16:05:26] <carabia> then again, for similar peripherals, io and speed you can go lower in price with pic32s
[16:05:59] <carabia> but i chose arm mostly due to having many players in the market and because it's relatively easy to port stuff between them.
[16:06:13] <bss36504> Ok ok so tech node doesnt directly translate to price, but still, they are old ass processors with limited die space for ram
[16:07:31] <carabia> on what emil said... of course you're gonna get fucked sideways if you use manufacturer provided hal-libraries, but i'm saying you can write portable code with cmsis. Because it's the standard.
[16:08:01] <carabia> or baremetal...
[16:08:36] <carabia> but you can go around it just by using cmsis cause then you don't have to worry about mf-specific fuckery
[16:08:57] <carabia> for the most part, anyway.
[16:09:30] <carabia> can never generalize anything too much but it's way better than nothing, ha
[16:12:00] <carabia> anyway bss36504 on a scale of 1 to 10, how productive has your day been so far? \:D/
[16:12:10] <bss36504> 3
[16:12:14] <carabia> >:)
[16:12:23] <bss36504> I wrote approximately 4 lines of perl, and 5 lines of xml
[16:12:31] <carabia> :D
[16:12:41] <bss36504> maybe 25 lines of java, but that was while answering a stackoverflow question for someone
[16:12:58] <bss36504> shockingly, I'm not technically a software engineer
[16:13:15] <bss36504> how about your day?
[16:13:31] <carabia> well with regards to stackoverflow, i don't know if anyone is over there
[16:14:42] <carabia> well, i took a day off to run some errands. I got home and slept due to last night's all-nighter, and umm. I woke up a couple of hours ago figuring the day's pretty much it.
[16:15:25] <carabia> i'm all the way over at the war-prone continent...
[16:17:21] <carabia> right now i'm watching some presentations from this year's cppcon so I know what to hate
[16:19:38] <bss36504> which war prone continent?
[16:21:04] <carabia> oh you know, the fascists, the nazis, and lately, muslims
[16:21:15] <bss36504> Ohhh gotcha
[16:22:13] <bss36504> yeah I'm in good ol Murica, where we have to choose between a racist, misogynistic asshat or a technologically inept and above-the-law she-devil in this year's election.
[16:22:40] <bss36504> makes me want to build a wall around my fuckin house
[16:24:06] <carabia> well, you know, i don't fret for the americans. Even if ol' donald would get elected I wouldn't hold my hopes for him to erect a wall.
[16:24:20] <carabia> i'm more worried for the mexicans, as usually whatever happens in the US elections
[16:24:28] <carabia> shit gets more fucked up for the beaners
[16:25:02] <bss36504> I know I know, it's not like the president really has that much power in the big scheme of things, it's more the fact that no matter which way we go the whole fucking government will be in yet another and possibly worse deadlock for another 4 years
[16:25:24] <carabia> i hear you
[16:25:56] <bss36504> Though, maybe ol Donny will unite both sides into agreeing that he's the worst and maybe they'll actually vote together on some stuff
[16:26:50] <smoores> the thing to be scared about is a republic majority putting 3+ new supreme court justices into power for the next 40+ years
[16:27:05] <bss36504> That is very true
[16:27:09] <smoores> s/republic/republican
[16:28:43] <carabia> the election seems like glorified entertainment for the people, who are generally ignorant in terms of politics apart from what they are being told by their choice of media house
[16:29:22] <carabia> that said there was an article of how the exchange rate of mexican peso reflects trump's support
[16:30:34] <carabia> so in reflection, someone's entertainment is harsh reality for others :)
[16:40:14] <bss36504> Welp, time to go home. Have a good weekend!
