Back
[01:06:47] <_ami_> DKordic: cehteh, Jartza: Thanks guys!
[01:06:54] <_ami_> i just had very scary time. my 2 years had swallowed a 1 INR coin. :(
[01:07:37] <_ami_> i was scared to death. thankfully it went down to abdominal
[01:08:15] <_ami_> doc told to wait for 2 days to pass down with stool.
[01:08:31] <_ami_> it happened yesterday's night. could not sleep much :/
[05:31:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> _ami_, 1 in 3 kids swallows a penny(or equivalent) I bet.
[05:32:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> I know I did, so did all 3 of my kids...we were special.
[05:33:11] <_ami_> Lambda_Aurigae: :)
[05:33:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's a rite of passage.
[05:34:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> saw them daily come into the emergency room when I worked there.
[05:34:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> at least one a day,,usually 3 or 4.
[05:34:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> docs always said the same thing,,,,make sure they eat right and it'll pass.
[05:34:57] <_ami_> yeah, lots of fluids and bananas
[05:35:18] <_ami_> i did not go office today
[05:35:31] <_ami_> hopefully it will pass tomorrow
[05:35:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> first kid, eh?
[05:35:57] <_ami_> yeah
[05:36:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> by the third kid you will be like, "Eh, least it wasn't a battery. Here kid, drink this."
[05:36:45] <_ami_> Lambda_Aurigae: haha :)
[05:36:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> then there's abcminiuser
[05:37:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> dang aussie won't send me any good beer!
[05:37:09] <abcminiuser> Brought to you by wireless tethering to my phone, since my ADSL is down
[05:37:29] <abcminiuser> Hell yeah, you can have any wine or beer that says EXPORT QUALITY on it
[05:37:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> at least you don't have ISDN...or maybe your ADSL turned into ISDN..
[05:37:34] <_ami_> doctor told similar thing: " Are you sure its not a battery? " :)
[05:37:35] <abcminiuser> Because that means we don't want it
[05:37:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> ISDN=It Still Does Nothing
[05:38:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> abcminiuser, fuck that export quality crap.
[05:38:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> I got used to VB when I was in Alice Springs.
[05:38:13] <abcminiuser> Line is completely out, will take up to three days for a tech to come out and fix ours (while breaking some other poor shmuck's connection, no doubt)
[05:38:31] <abcminiuser> You know what doesn't randomly corrode and crap out? (*&^ing fibre.
[05:38:46] <abcminiuser> Ewww, VB=Very Bad
[05:38:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> abcminiuser, at least you aren't in korea
[05:39:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> there you lose your internet and phone because someone dug up the lines and melted them down to sell the copper.
[05:39:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> abcminiuser, it's better than Fosters!
[05:39:24] <abcminiuser> I thought they were all on gigabit fibre over there?
[05:39:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> they are.
[05:39:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> because the locals dug up all the copper!
[05:39:39] <_ami_> Lambda_Aurigae: i have been in south korea, their INTERNET speed is crazy! :)
[05:39:39] <abcminiuser> And no, we get people nicking the damned train line control copper instead
[05:40:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> when I was in the military we had a seismic array in south korea and had the power and data lines dug up many times.
[05:40:21] <abcminiuser> Annoys the heck out of me - they steal the copper wires (and make me late to work) just so they can sell it, it can be melted down, and then sold as copper wire for train control lines
[05:40:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> they finally put everything in armored conduit...that just slowed em down.
[05:40:50] <abcminiuser> Live 4KV conduit?
[05:40:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> something like that.
[05:41:12] <abcminiuser> That would stop them, and any passing wild animals..
[05:41:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> kinda feel bad for the fuckers who had to cut those power lines though.
[05:41:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> 10 to 15 kilometer runs of DC power.
[05:41:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> yes, DC.
[05:42:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> to get 24V at the head end of the well you had to pump in upwards of 150V at the supply end.
[05:42:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> the designer of that system should have been shot.
[05:42:49] <abcminiuser> Edison would be proud
[05:42:55] <abcminiuser> Or Telsa, I forget.
[05:43:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> edison.
[05:43:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> tesla did AC
[05:43:02] <abcminiuser> *Tesla
[05:43:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> edison was all for DC power.
[05:43:16] <abcminiuser> Ah yes, the elephant execution
[05:43:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> generators on the corner of every city block!
[05:43:58] <abcminiuser> Sounds like our Fibre to The Node solution
[05:44:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> use the existing steam pipes running through the big cities to drive small local turbine generators.
[05:44:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have fiber to the side of my house here.
[05:44:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> and a 200 pair demark 50 feet from my front door.
[05:44:44] <abcminiuser> "Hey, let's spend MORE money than running brand new passive fibre to every household, and spend it on a 100,000 crappy node boxes which use the old copper and max out at 90Mb/s theoretical, ~25 practical!"
[05:44:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> and I live in the middle of nowhere.
[05:44:56] <abcminiuser> Sigh
[05:45:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> fiber was put in here 10 years ago.
[05:45:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> this is what happens when you privatize the phone and internet feeds.
[05:45:26] <abcminiuser> Oh no, haven't you heard? FttN is futureproof, and will make Aus a world leader
[05:45:58] <abcminiuser> We HAVE privatised companies, the government wanted to build fibre out because those lazy buggers wouldn't upgrade their networks
[05:46:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> aahh.
[05:46:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> even better.
[05:46:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> hehe
[05:46:24] <abcminiuser> Then when they started, the major telcom suddenly said "hey we'll do it for you, as long as no one else gets to use it"
[05:46:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> so, if I win the lottery, I shouldn't move to aussieland because no good internet feed...
[05:46:38] <abcminiuser> So the government told them to GTFO, and started rolling FttP everywhere
[05:47:05] <abcminiuser> Got off the ground, then they lost the election and the collosal dipshits that got in decided to cancel it all and go with FttN instead
[05:48:00] <abcminiuser> ^%$&^%$&%$^
[05:48:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> optical fiber...optical,,,light...light pollution!
[05:48:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> they fire lasers down them fibers.
[05:48:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> imagine all the kangaroos that would go blind if something chewed one of those cables in two!
[05:48:58] <abcminiuser> Their original "well, shit, they picked the only good idea" counter solution was to roll out wireless to everyone insetad
[05:49:38] <abcminiuser> When someone pointed out that they would need to upgrade physics first, they picked the second worst solution instead
[05:49:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> put a big honking antenna on top of ayers rock!
[05:50:25] <abcminiuser> This is only a very, very tiny part of the clusterfuck that is our current 1/50th built NBN debacle, trust me there's much more
[05:50:34] <abcminiuser> But apparently no one but me cares about it here.
[05:52:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> maybe they should run it on the train control lines instead?
[05:52:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> consolidate systems as it were.
[05:55:45] <abcminiuser> Sigh
[05:56:06] <abcminiuser> Mystery of the week solved today, took me many days to find the source of my instability
[05:56:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> not enough beer?
[05:56:26] * Lambda_Aurigae has been unstable for many many years.
[05:56:45] <abcminiuser> Turns out the second stage bootloader loaded the main app ELF, decompressed it and jumped to the main program, but didn't flush the L1 or L2 caches properly
[05:56:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> oops.
[05:57:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> that doesn't sound like any AVR.
[05:57:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> ARM?
[05:57:17] <abcminiuser> When the main app booted and I invalidated the caches before enabling them again, it chucked out a random portion of the app binary
[05:57:31] <abcminiuser> Yeah, big-ass ARM
[05:57:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> woohoo! no more firefox/iceweasel issues on debian anymore...
[05:57:54] <abcminiuser> Apparently you can just throw out a random portion of your app to save space, hardly matters other than some wonky exceptions....
[05:58:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> haven't done much with ARM yet here.
[05:58:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> trying to figure out how to use an old cellphone as an ARM dev platform though.
[05:59:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> as I currently have 14 old working android phones.
[06:00:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> my new quad core i7 laptop rocks though.
[06:00:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> at least, now that I got windows off and linux on it.
[06:01:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> time to go take a shower and get ready to go out for the day.
[06:01:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> at least I don't gotta worky.
[06:05:36] <abcminiuser> I love my i7 desktop
[06:05:53] <abcminiuser> Had laptops for years, but then since I moved out I figured it's easier to have a desktop I can upgrade
[06:06:10] <abcminiuser> ARM is neat, I've been doing almost exclusively ARM for a couple of years now
[06:06:22] <abcminiuser> Just be warned, Cortex-A != Cortex-M
[10:59:45] <Jartza> evening
[11:06:17] <_ami_> Jartza: good evening.
[11:06:24] <_ami_> whats up
[11:47:29] <Jartza> _ami_: not much, fiddling with some QML code
[11:47:47] <_ami_> aha, QT stuffs :P
[11:48:03] <_ami_> wonder if you find EFL better than QT.
[11:48:10] <_ami_> enlightenment.org
[11:51:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> won't work for me, unfortunately.
[11:51:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm working on a multiplatform 3D application.
[11:52:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> right now I'm leaning toward java and java3d
[12:11:32] <Jartza> _ami_: no way :D
[12:11:40] <Jartza> enlightenment is pile of poo :P
[12:11:47] <_ami_> :(
[12:12:34] <learath> hah
[12:17:23] <_ami_> Jartza: what are the bad things abt Enlightenment aka e?
[12:17:29] <_ami_> we shall try to improve it .
[12:18:53] <Jartza> why try to fix something inherently broken by design when there's working alternatives?
[12:19:28] <Jartza> https://what.thedailywtf.com/topic/15001/enlightened
[12:19:29] <Jartza> LOL
[12:19:42] <Jartza> googling enlightenment efl gave that as 2nd url
[12:20:28] <Jartza> but actually that sums up pretty nicely the thing :)
[12:31:17] <_ami_> i don't know if you have tried it before or not.
[12:31:36] <_ami_> All tizen devices apps are made of EFL
[12:32:24] <skz81> the french "freebox" (modem/router and separate set-top-box) are based on EFL
[12:32:41] <_ami_> yeah, that too.
[12:32:46] <skz81> Actually, probably the STB only, as the router as no screen interface.
[12:33:45] <Jartza> _ami_: I tried using it about 2 years ago and found it bad
[12:34:03] <Jartza> I prefer QML for UI stuff
[12:34:20] <Jartza> also, Qt enables me to create multiplatform stuff pretty easily
[12:34:30] <_ami_> it improved a lot then after.
[12:35:05] <Jartza> so has Qt :)
[12:35:22] <skz81> never used EFL anyway. A bit of GTK but Qt was really dev-friendly since the beggining : well-designed API, extensive doc... and cross-platformd as said !
[12:35:25] <_ami_> especially the introduction of eo allows us to have nice interfaces
[12:35:27] <Jartza> I love building quick protos with pyqt + qml
[12:35:48] <skz81> used it for a couple of desktop app, ported nearly seemlessly to windows (developped on linux)
[12:36:08] <_ami_> i am working on adding interfaces in EFL so that we have less no. of APIs
[12:36:48] <Jartza> I just made this environmental sensor with feedback on touchscreen with pyqt + qml in 12 hours
[12:36:50] <skz81> _ami_ you ADD interfaces to have less interfaces ? I miss some point here
[12:36:59] <Jartza> or well, demo. but anyway.
[12:37:16] <_ami_> e.g. earlier evas_object_text_set(obj, "hello"); evas_object_textblock_text_set(obj2, "hello");
[12:37:43] <_ami_> now u can just efl_text_set(obj or obj2, "hello");
[12:38:12] <_ami_> efl_text_set() is an interface to set text
[12:38:20] <skz81> ok, you mean reworking the API in fact
[12:38:58] <skz81> I wont say that a function IS "an interface", that why I didn't understand.
[12:39:16] <_ami_> skz81: in eo terms, we call it interface :)
[12:39:17] <skz81> For me an interface, so, an API, is A SET OF functions
[12:39:23] <skz81> OK
[12:40:18] <skz81> For instance @work we have a lib, that as different APIs, i.e. different set of functions (some API are more convinient depending on the context)
[12:40:21] <Jartza> _ami_: still, that sounds like oldish way of doing things. I love the way QML works
[12:40:32] <skz81> but the CORE features of the lib are the same
[12:41:02] <_ami_> Jartza: we have the edje object which does not same what QML does.
[12:41:31] <_ami_> and it was there in EFL before QML exists
[12:41:37] <_ami_> does same*
[12:41:49] <skz81> so, evening buddies, see you tomorrow !
[12:42:22] <_ami_> skz81: nn
[12:43:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> _ami_, Jartza mentioned one thing though that enlightenment doesn't do...multiplatform.
[12:43:56] <_ami_> it runs on mac and win now
[12:44:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> oh?
[12:44:12] <_ami_> yup
[12:44:18] <_ami_> it does now
[12:44:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> the webpage you posted earlier said it was working on bsd...didn't mention mac or windows
[12:44:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> first page, third paragraph.
[12:44:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> if that is the case, one should update the webpage.
[12:45:30] <_ami_> its really easy to make eye candy UI in EFL.
[12:46:51] <Jartza> _ami_: I use Qt to make apps that run on win/mac/linux/android/ios
[12:48:01] <Jartza> maybe the website just has bad examples, but I find this far from easy:
[12:48:01] <Jartza> https://docs.enlightenment.org/auto/tutorial_edje_box.html
[12:48:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> Jartza, I do the same with java...
[12:48:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> not that java is any good...but, it's what I know.
[12:49:27] <Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: usually one should use the tools they know :)
[12:49:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup.
[12:50:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> setting up my new lappy with a full java and java3d dev environment to try to make a simplified open source game like kerbal space program.
[12:51:01] <Jartza> cool
[12:52:09] <_ami_> Ja
[12:52:13] <_ami_> https://www.enlightenment.org/docs
[12:52:22] <_ami_> we have nicer doc now
[12:52:39] <_ami_> earlier the docs were really shit
[12:53:14] <_ami_> python binding are also pretty good.
[12:53:25] <_ami_> Dave really does good job on that.
[12:54:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> hmm..guess it's called JavaFX these days....been a while since I played with that.
[12:59:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> hmm..I guess javafx is a mod and/or subset of java3d..
[13:20:58] <_ami_> i think its possible to transmit and receive a byte on SPI bitbang? i only have done transmit yet via spi bitbang.
[13:26:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> sure it is possible.
[13:26:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> spi is easy.
[13:26:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> clocked serial, basically.
[13:27:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> put bit on data line, toggle clock, repeat until done.
[13:27:24] <_ami_> read MISO in between clock pulse?
[13:27:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> for reading, when clock goes high, read data line.
[13:27:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> read data on clock transition from low to high...this is the basic mode.
[13:27:58] <_ami_> aha, got it. easier than i thought.
[13:28:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> some read the data on clock transition from high to low but that's a bit more advanced.
[13:28:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> different SPI modes.
[13:28:27] <_ami_> hmm
[13:28:31] <_ami_> https://github.com/amitesh-singh/ldd/blob/master/spi/bitbang/own/gpio-spi-bitbang/gpio-spi-bitbang.c
[13:28:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Peripheral_Interface_Bus
[13:28:45] <_ami_> i wrote a spi bitbang driver for rpi2
[13:28:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Peripheral_Interface_Bus#/media/File:SPI_timing_diagram2.svg
[13:29:15] <_ami_> need to check on real hw though.. it only transmit yet. will add support of reading miso too.
[13:29:48] <_ami_> Lambda_Aurigae: have you done spi bitbang on rpi gpios? what was the speed u got?
[13:30:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> not on rPI.
[13:30:09] <_ami_> i tested my code on virtual GPIO ports only.
[13:30:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have one but never went beyond using it as a media player.
[13:30:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's too unwieldy as a microcontroller and not powerful enough for a real computer for me.
[13:30:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> so it's in the pile of stuff labeled, "Sell someday"
[13:35:31] <_ami_> yeah, it lies in between them.
[13:35:48] <_ami_> not really good for data collections because it does not run RTOs.
[13:35:52] <_ami_> RTOS*
[22:07:06] <_ami_> not related to avr question, how do setup ctags in atom editor?
[22:09:50] <eszett> hi, i have some 0.5mm pitched IC, and trouble is coming soldering it. So I got the following idea: I connect (as far as it is possible) to leave each second GPIO unconnected. The reason for this is, if there are any solder bridges, I simply dont care, because nowhere 2 adjacent pins are connected, what do you think, is this reasonable?
[22:33:24] <Casper> eszett: if that work, then it is good for your own project. Not for commercial usage however
[22:35:52] <eszett> ye
[22:36:52] <eszett> unfortunately alot of "system relevant pins" are adjacent, likeVCC and GND, and USB0_DP and USB0_DM and such..
[23:11:48] <sabor> eszett: then i guess you have to improve your soldering skills
[23:12:51] <sabor> use more flux, more solder, touch only the ends of the pins, i always got shorts when came near the body of the part
[23:20:34] <_ami_> Regarding spi bitbang, when cpha =1 , we read MISO pin on trailing edge (in between clock high and clock low) ?
[23:40:18] <sabor> _ami_: right
[23:44:29] <_ami_> sabor: ok, i just reread the spi wiki page. :)
[23:45:04] <_ami_> spi is confusing sometimes when you revisit it after a while.
[23:45:41] <_ami_> probably wiki page has the best explanation about spi modes
[23:51:29] <sabor> the atmega48pa datasheet is also not bad
