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[00:03:49] <_ami_> Emil: signatures are different between 328 and 328bp?
[00:04:31] <Emil> _ami_: they are
[00:05:14] <Emil> Semicurrent signature (we bought them from digikey ~two weeks ago) is 0x1e9516
[00:05:37] <_ami_> Emil connect with LeoNerd, if i remember correctly, he was trying to setup 328bp before. May be he could help.
[00:05:45] <_ami_> probably sleeping now.
[00:07:44] <Emil> As should I :D
[00:09:01] <_ami_> :)
[06:11:33] <LeoNerd> Emil: Yah; there's a bunch of files th need copying around to make 328pb work. I'll find you a list - ping me when you
[06:11:38] <LeoNerd> 're around
[06:59:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> does atmel still do an official avr-gcc bundle? I would think they would have it included.
[07:00:26] <antto> i downloaded it recently
[07:00:41] <antto> in fact, i didn't know about it till recently >:(
[07:01:00] <antto> i thought winavr is the only way to get avrgcc for windows
[07:01:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> naaa.
[07:01:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> you can compile from sources yourself.
[07:01:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's not that difficult.
[07:01:45] <antto> and had the impression that atmel have their own compiler, together with their IDE
[07:01:59] <antto> i did try to build avrgcc myself
[07:02:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> they've used gcc for many years as part of avr studio/atmel studio
[07:02:35] <antto> i didn't know since i don't use that
[07:02:40] <inflex> the AVR buildchain on linux is greatp
[07:02:51] <inflex> it's one of the big reasons why I ended up using AVR so much
[07:02:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> antto, I don't use it either but I read a lot.
[07:03:03] <antto> Code::Blocks + avrgcc + avrdude is quite okay
[07:03:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> inflex, same here...I've been a linux user since the late 90s.
[07:03:26] <antto> i use that setup both on windows and linux
[07:03:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> code::blocks? screw that...pick a text editor.
[07:03:35] <antto> hell no
[07:03:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> plain, simple, text editor.
[07:03:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> that's what I use.
[07:03:58] <antto> i like the colorful text
[07:03:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> vi, vim, ed, kate, gedit,
[07:03:58] <inflex> Lambda_Aurigae, likewise, '96 with Slackware and 3Com 3C509 :)
[07:04:04] <antto> and the "Build" button
[07:04:07] <inflex> ... or was that a 3C905?
[07:04:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> you had 3com?!?!
[07:04:27] <antto> Lambda_Aurigae i am mostly using windows
[07:04:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> 3c509
[07:04:29] <inflex> Lambda_Aurigae, back when S3 were reasonable (?) cheap gfx cards, if you couldn't afford a TSENG 4000
[07:04:32] <antto> kate is nice tho
[07:04:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> novell ne-2000
[07:04:51] <antto> notepad++ is annoying
[07:04:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> or ne-2000 clones
[07:05:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> on windows, when I did windows, I used ultraedit.
[07:05:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> or installed cygwin or mingw and used vi
[07:05:23] <antto> yes, i also use ultraedit
[07:05:40] <inflex> qedit was the one I used
[07:05:45] <antto> but i don't actually use it to write my code in it.. i use the IDE for that
[07:05:58] <inflex> Good-bad old days. Back when Borland Pascal reigned supreme with TurboVision
[07:06:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> IDE is a wide parallel interface for harddrives.
[07:06:11] <inflex> hehehe
[07:06:44] * antto throws a big integer at Lambda_Aurigae
[07:07:24] <inflex> I haven't done much AVR stuff recently - been too busy massively expanding my fork of Openboardview
[07:07:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've been doing other projects...mostly cellulosic hardware based.
[07:07:58] <antto> wat
[07:08:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> cellulose
[07:08:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> wood
[07:08:13] <antto> are you brewing toilet paper?
[07:08:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> no, making things out of wood.
[07:08:21] <inflex> carpentry is nice
[07:08:27] <inflex> I find it very... relaxing
[07:08:36] <inflex> ( at least until you slip with the chisel )
[07:08:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> more worried about slipping with the circular saw.
[07:08:56] <antto> i thought having a garden is relaxing
[07:09:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> wifey has one of those too.
[07:09:13] <antto> hahah
[07:09:17] <inflex> Lambda_Aurigae, true, those can be a little more effective.
[07:09:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> we have more cucumbers than we will ever eat.
[07:09:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> with a chisel you can lose a finger
[07:09:33] <inflex> Lambda_Aurigae, bought myself a nice little Makita 10.8v circular saw, very handy
[07:09:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> with a skill saw you can cut off your brother's whole hand!
[07:09:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have all ryobi 18V gear.
[07:09:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> saws, drills, nail guns
[07:10:02] <inflex> Lambda_Aurigae, had my hand drawn in to a mains powered belt-sander. Lost a bit of body that day :(
[07:10:04] <Tom_itx> hopefully you have done neither
[07:10:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> Tom_itx, well,,,I have one brother who cut into another brother's hand with a jigsaw once.
[07:10:34] <inflex> Lambda_Aurigae, the 10.8V I like for the driver/drill, but it does lack with other items :(
[07:10:52] <Tom_itx> i bet other brother will never sleep on the job again
[07:10:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> inflex, I have the ryobi one+ system....all my tools use the same batteries.
[07:11:34] <antto> i've only burnt my finger with the soldering iron.. once
[07:11:36] <antto> or twice
[07:11:47] <inflex> Lambda_Aurigae, ja, I am pleased how the battery systems have become popular now.
[07:11:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> skill saw, drills, compound miter saw, reciprocating saw, jigsaw, 18g narrow crown stapler, 16g nailer
[07:12:11] <inflex> Lambda_Aurigae, the ones I have are the Makita mini-packs (10.8V), since I don't really do heavy work.
[07:13:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> wife has a cultivator(kinda sorta light duty tiller) and a small weedwacker that use the same batteries.
[07:13:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> most of my roybi tools I've had for 13 years now and only had to replace the batteries.
[07:13:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've just added to the kit over the years.
[07:14:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> only had one drill die and that got dropped off a roof several times in one day then died a week later.
[07:14:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's not commercial grade like dewalt or makita but for the home hobby/handyman the roybi gear is great.
[07:15:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> and it tends to be cheaper than makita or dewalt by far.
[07:15:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> even got a power inflator for pumping up trailer and car tires that uses the same batteries.
[07:17:41] <inflex> I only picked up Makita because they had the more compact size. Previously I'd mostly purchased Ryobi gear (mostly wins with that, some duds, like their small bandsaw)
[07:18:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> oooo..there's an angle grinder!
[07:21:06] <inflex> Hah, for that sort of thing I have my mini-Dremel cordless. Perfect when I have to cut down a 2.7mm screw to 2.5mm (and I often have to :( )
[07:21:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> this is the size of a big pneumatic angle grinder.
[07:21:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> for cutting off half inch bolts.
[07:22:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> and a little cordless palm router...that's cute.
[07:22:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-ONE-Palm-Router-P600G/206887046
[07:22:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-ONE-18-Volt-4-1-2-in-Angle-Grinder-Tool-Only-P421/100519983
[07:53:39] <inflex> Lambda_Aurigae, this is what I bought -
https://www.bunnings.com.au/dremel-8v-cordless-micro-rotary-tool-with-accessories_p6280089
[08:02:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have a corded dremel similar to that.
[08:02:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> with lots more bits and pieces
[08:03:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> as I've been collecting those for nearly 20 years.
[08:03:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> used it to cut the inner bearing races off of the front hubs on my convertable years ago.
[08:03:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> couldn't press them off as they were rusted on pretty bad and couldn't get behind them to move them at all.
[08:04:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> so, a pack of heavy cutoff wheels later, both inner races were split and came off.
[08:04:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> polished the shafts up and pressed the new ones on with no problem.
[08:04:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> love my dremel.
[08:06:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> have a cheaper aftermarket version that I use for my milling machines.
[08:06:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> which I keep building, tearing down, and rebuilding,,,over and over and over again.
[08:16:56] <Emil> LeoNerd: here
[08:17:01] <Emil> Though on mobile
[08:53:34] <inflex> Lambda_Aurigae, heh, I still haven't acquired a CNC setup... one day, maybe :\ Have to spend $$$ on a stereoscope-microscope yet :(
[09:21:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> acquired?
[09:21:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> bah.
[09:21:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> build!
[09:21:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've collected the piecesparts for my next build.
[09:21:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've used heavy duty drawer slides so far.
[09:22:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> I acquired a bunch of old okidata printers this past winter.
[09:22:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> the slide rails on those are much better.
[09:22:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> and lots of motors and bits in there too...including stepper driver chips matched to the steppers in the machines.
[13:36:56] <rain1> hello
[13:37:23] <rain1> I bought some kit (chinese clock) off ebay and it's got a preprogrammed AT89C2051 in it
[13:37:30] <rain1> is there a way to read the program off it?
[13:38:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> possibly, if they didn't lock it.
[13:38:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> that is an 8051/8052 chip and not an avr though.
[13:39:51] <rain1> aha: Program Verify: If lock bits LB1 and LB2 have not been programmed code data can be read back via the data lines for verification
[13:39:55] <rain1> so those lock bits..
[13:40:03] <rain1> i have no way to know if they're on or off
[13:40:14] <rain1> oh this isn't avr my bad
[13:40:18] <rain1> i thought avr just meant atmel
[13:40:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> should be able to read the lock bits through the programming interface.
[13:40:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> atmel makes many things.
[13:40:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> avr is avr...
[13:40:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> atmel also makes 8051/2, arm, memory, and other things.
[13:41:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> do you have a programmer for the chip?
[13:42:11] <rain1> no
[13:42:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> without programmer hardware and software you aren't going to get anywhere.
[13:45:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> looks like the programming interface is fairly simple...could probably do it with some LEDs and pushbuttons really.
[13:46:17] <_ami_> carabia: hello, you there?
[13:46:28] <rain1> that would be fun!
[13:47:09] <carabia> _ami_, yeah
[13:47:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> unfortunately you can not read the lock bits on that chip.
[13:47:33] <rain1> Oh... drat
[13:47:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> rain1, I've done it with avr...this interface seems very simplistic compared to avr even.
[13:47:37] <_ami_> carabia: how much is the maximum bandwidth of the clone LA which you have ?
[13:47:40] <rain1> i guess you can just try reading out the data
[13:47:44] <rain1> and if it fails you know why
[13:47:58] <rain1> nice Lambda_Aurigae, did you do a writeup or blog post?
[13:47:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup...read it out and see if it reads all 0x00 or 0xff or if there is some change in there.
[13:48:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> there are three lock modes...unlocked, programming disabled, and verify plus programming disabled.
[13:48:44] <_ami_> carabia: it seems mine one can not reliably measure a frequency more than 6 MHz
[13:49:05] <rain1> oh programming disabled.. meaning i cant even put my own new code on
[13:49:09] <carabia> _ami_, i really don't know what the max. bandwidth is, but i've done accurate measurements up to 20 MHz
[13:49:11] <rain1> that is disappointing
[13:49:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> no..
[13:49:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> that means you can't write anything to it without erasing it first.
[13:49:26] <carabia> well, 24 is what the software lets you choose I believe, so 24 MHz
[13:49:39] <rain1> ah
[13:50:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> so they might write 1K of program to it then lock it...meaning you can't write anything else to flash without doing a full erase.
[13:50:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> or they might lock both write and verify which means you can't read it or write to it without an erase.
[13:50:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.atmel.com/images/doc0368.pdf
[13:50:39] <_ami_> carabia: To measure X bandwith, my sample rate should be 4 times faster than X i.e. 4X
[13:50:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> section 11, page 7, tells how to write and verify...verify being read.
[13:51:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> a PC parallel port should have no problem with bitbanging the interface.
[13:51:43] <_ami_> carabia: maximum sample rate i can see in LA GUI is 24 MS/s
[13:51:56] <carabia> Yeah, that's correct
[13:52:24] <_ami_> so i can measure up to 6 MHZ frequency only?
[13:53:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> _ami_, sounds about right.
[13:53:36] <carabia> Well yeah that's _kind_ of right
[13:53:58] <rain1> could a microcontreller do it?
[13:54:01] <rain1> i don't have parallel port
[13:54:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> rain1, yes.
[13:54:08] <_ami_> Lambda_Aurigae: yeah, i did some experiment. LA fails to determine Frequency above 6 MHz. :/
[13:54:20] <_ami_> i need an oscilloscope. :P
[13:54:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> depending on the microcontroller and number of i/o pins you have available.
[13:54:23] <carabia> _ami_, 4x frequency isn't really anything set in stone.
[13:54:30] <_ami_> but its too costly.
[13:54:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> how much you willing to spend _ami_ ?
[13:55:23] <_ami_> Lambda_Aurigae: 200$ MAX limit
[13:55:51] <carabia> _ami_, you don't need a scope if you're only doing digital...
[13:55:59] <carabia> well, measuring your square waves e.g.
[13:56:11] <_ami_> yeah, digital only till now
[13:56:14] <carabia> get a higher spec la then
[13:56:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://dangerousprototypes.com/docs/Logic_Pirate
[13:57:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> if overclocked, can go to 60MHz...it's just a digital logic analyzer.
[13:57:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> base rate of 20MHz
[13:57:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> I overclocked mine and it works well...and I built mine from through-hole parts.
[13:57:38] <carabia> Lambda_Aurigae, price?
[13:57:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> 30 dollars if you buy one.
[13:57:55] <carabia> oh wait that's actually just nothing but a pic32 haha
[13:58:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> well
[13:58:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> pic32 and a couple of serial sram chips.
[13:58:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/Logic-Pirate-p-1750.html
[13:58:21] <carabia> oh yeah, my bad. prolly on the flipside
[13:58:53] <carabia> and for $50 you can get the one that's specced to 100 MHz sample rate
[13:58:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> 40MHz, not 60MHz...
[13:59:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah..there are higher rate ones.
[13:59:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> I built mine for under 10
[13:59:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> dollars
[14:00:27] <carabia> mmm
[14:01:13] <carabia> but yeah anyway, the sample rate vs frequency is kind of dependant on what you're measuring. So 4x isn't set in stone.
[14:01:25] <_ami_> Lambda_Aurigae: how hard is to build LA at home? at least up to 150 MS/s sample rate
[14:03:02] <carabia> 150???
[14:04:10] <carabia> You could do one I guess, using some fpga-dev board
[14:04:14] <carabia> apart from that, no chance.
[14:05:52] <_ami_> carabia: i emant 150 MHZ sample rate
[14:05:55] <_ami_> meant*
[14:06:40] <_ami_> carabia: that 4X theory seems to fit with Saleae LAs
[14:06:55] <_ami_> might vary on other LAs
[14:07:07] <carabia> no it doesn't
[14:07:15] <carabia> it just depends on what you're measuring
[14:07:38] <carabia> and yes, 150 MHz, you could "make" one with some fpga-devboard
[14:08:22] <carabia> some board with a nice chunk of memory onboard
[14:08:47] <_ami_> http://support.saleae.com/hc/en-us/articles/208667086-What-is-the-maximum-bandwidth-
[14:10:21] <carabia> It's a good rule of thumb, yes.
[14:13:12] <carabia> to make one yourself you get the added benefit of choosing the protocol to communicate with the computer, but then again I have no experience with any of the fpga languages
[14:13:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> how hard to make? not very. how hard to make right? slightly moreso.
[14:14:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> that logic pirate just clocks data into the serial srams then reads it back out.
[14:14:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> they have a top speed of 20MHz rated but can be overclocked to 40MHz without problem.
[14:15:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> you could interleave them and say use 5 of them at 20MHz and do 100MHz easily. Just need some glue circuitry and something to generate the higher speed clock pulses.
[14:15:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> could use an fpga to do the data interleave and clock
[14:15:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> I would do it with discreet logic myself but I'm kind of an old school hacker.
[14:16:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> at that point, however, it might be better to use parallel sram or dram even.
[14:17:39] <carabia> "might" as in "definitely"
[14:17:47] <_ami_> noted down, thanks
[14:18:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> if you can find some high speed sram, those are easier to work with.
[14:18:02] <carabia> cause you wouldn't have to fuck around with having discrete logic to do magic with the low speed serial rams
[14:18:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> but dram can go waaay up in speed...you just need a dram controller to do refresh and all.
[14:19:14] <carabia> high speed sram will cost you dearly, however.
[14:19:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup yup
[14:21:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> hmm.
[14:21:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> 72MS/s is 72 Mega Samples per second, yes?
[14:22:03] <carabia> indeed it is.
[14:22:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/dso-quad-4-channel-digital-storage-oscilloscope-p-736.html?cPath=174
[14:22:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> 169 USD for a quad channel oscope...2 analog and 2 digital channels.
[14:22:56] <carabia> and totally not a fan of that phone-sized screen
[14:23:24] <_ami_> carabia: me too.. don;t like that small screen much.
[14:23:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> just throwing out options.
[14:23:44] <_ami_> ok
[14:25:56] <carabia> I'd look into some fpga-board with perhaps SDRAM on it, I think those clock up to 167 MHz
[14:26:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> unfortunately it has no way to store and upload data.
[14:26:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> an fpga with a goodly amount of dram would be fun.
[14:26:58] <carabia> And then i'd start learning verilog or vhdl and whatnot 8)
[14:26:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> a gigabit of data storage for a DSO would rock.
[14:27:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> I miss the old serial logic analyzer we had in the military.
[14:28:38] <carabia> So I take it, you were at the (don't-ask-don't-tell'ish) software nerd -division?
[14:28:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> nope.
[14:28:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> 99105, scientific measurements technician
[14:29:04] <carabia> Same difference
[14:29:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> tasked with monitoring worldwide nuclear weapons testing in accordance with the 1963 limited test ban treaty
[14:29:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> basically, scorekeeper.
[14:30:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> we used seismic, hydroacoustic, and satellite based systems to watch things go boom.
[14:30:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> on the sat side, visible and IR(imaging and non-imaging), x-ray, gamma ray, emp, and others.
[14:31:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> the emp sensor suite was the world's bestestestest lightning tracker.
[14:31:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> GPS....60 million dollar satellite...of which 14 mil is the NDS package that has all the fun toys on it.
[14:32:00] <carabia> yeah military satellites ain't the cheapest ones
[14:32:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> emp sensor was a 3D sensor. had 3 rings and a nice little amplifier/digitizer system.
[14:32:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> each sat would see a pulse and record the pulse profile on all 3 axis at once.
[14:32:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> then comparing those axis we could tell the direction a pulse came from.
[14:33:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> by combining multiple sats we could look at arrival time and direction and pinpoint a pulse.
[14:33:13] <carabia> how sensitive was said emp detector?
[14:33:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> and the computer system on the ground station would compare pulse profiles and match them across satellites.
[14:34:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> we could see every lightning strike on the planet in near realtime
[14:34:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> couldn't really give sensitivity levels but it was designed to pick up the emp pulse from a nuke set off under ground or under water.
[14:34:56] <carabia> So, you could see nukes and emps but that's it?
[14:35:04] <carabia> I mean nuke emps and lightnings
[14:35:08] <carabia> I'm a bit tired.
[14:35:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah, pretty much.
[14:35:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> and the test bed at los alamos.
[14:35:23] <eszett> I have a question. Im using bus pirate with AVRdude to change a Atmega32u4 (setting fuses, flashing firmware, flashing bootloader). And when i try to set fuses AvrDude tells me Adress mismatch with lfuse, why is that?
[14:35:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> which has this big honking emp generator for testing emp hardening.
[14:35:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> eszett, lfuse...does that have any reserved or not used bits?
[14:36:01] <eszett> hmm not that i knew about..
[14:36:21] <eszett> I changed lfuse some month ago with the same Atmega32u4 and it worked.
[14:36:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> then no clue.
[14:36:51] <eszett> AVRdude doesnt seem to be the problem. The bus pirate neither. Maybe the Atmega32u4 hardware (soldering caps etc.) isnt properly donw
[14:37:12] <eszett> but im not sure if a bad Atmega circuit has any effect on Avrdudes "adress mismatch"
[14:38:16] <eszett> I really have no idea what "safemode.." errors are about in AVRdude
[14:39:47] <eszett> I have another programmer, a cheap china ISP. I can replace the bus pirate by this, just for testing purposes
[14:41:28] <eszett> Some guy wrote, if safemode complains about anything, then the problem is probably the ISP
[14:41:52] <eszett> so i better replace the bus pirate by another ISP and try again..
[14:49:53] <eszett> wow, it needs almost 15 minutes to write the bootloader. something is really wrong there.
[14:51:37] <carabia> what the hell's it writing at? 10 hz?
[14:54:27] <eszett> how can i figure that out?
[14:56:56] <carabia> man avrdude
[14:57:04] <carabia> But I think it's the -B flag
[14:58:32] <eszett> -B changes the bitrate. If the ISP is talking slow, the bitrate must be slow
[14:59:02] * eszett plugs the slow piece off
[15:02:54] <carabia> then again I have no idea how fast the bus pirate is able to write
[15:07:58] <carabia> also I think the -b flag changes the serial speed bp-comp, no idea what's that set to by default either
[15:23:19] <mohsen_1> Hi, is there a library for avrs to use .ged files?
[15:23:29] <mohsen_1> Or are .ged files typically used in avrs?
[15:28:42] <mohsen_1> A friend of mine bought an LED display a couple of years ago, now he wants to change the text that's going to be written on the display, the display has board that an avr atmega32x( I can't read the last letter) on it and has a slut for a SD card.
[15:29:06] <mohsen_1> The SD card only contains a .ged file which I failed to open with various applications.
[15:29:08] <eszett> carabia: tried it with USBasp now, which is lightning fast, so it was the bus pirate.
[15:29:50] <mohsen_1> According to an onine file extension reference, there are 2 applications that use .ged extensions, I tried both, but got no luck.
[15:31:05] <eszett> Is there a way to use binary format with AVRdude instead of hex?
[15:34:23] <mohsen_1> So, what do you suggest?
[15:34:50] <mohsen_1> What about downloading the source code from the avr?
[15:42:31] <mohsen_1> No idea :( ?
[15:58:03] <eszett> mohsen: sorry im a beginner and have problem for myself :-(
[15:59:13] <mohsen_1> eszett: I was talking to the whole channel:D.
[15:59:42] <eszett> ye
[15:59:50] <eszett> im part of it
[16:00:08] <mohsen_1> Hmmmm
[16:01:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> eszett, yes, you can just upload the binary to the chip without converting it to hex.
[16:01:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> IF
[16:01:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> if you have a program that will read the binary file and write it to the chip.
[16:01:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> AVRDude, however, will not do so.
[16:01:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> mohsen_1, what is a .ged file?
[16:02:32] <eszett> Lambda: figured it out thx. binary is much more self-explanatory and intuitive to use IMHO.
[16:02:33] <mohsen_1> Lambda_Aurigae: That's what I'm trying to figure out.
[16:02:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> mohsen_1, as for downloading code from the avr, yes, you can download it...but not source code.
[16:03:14] <mohsen_1> Lambda_Aurigae: Note that I think it is a binary file, and if the avr tries to read from it, then isn't my situation similar to eszett?
[16:03:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> you can download the flash data from the avr, usually, and run it through a disassembler to get assembly code.
[16:03:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> mohsen_1, not necessarily...I'm betting the avr has a program onboard that reads that .ged file and does something with it.
[16:04:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> he was wanting to upload a program as a binary file rather than convert it to iHex and upload it.
[16:05:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> I can pretty much guarantee that the .ged file is not a program that is loaded to flash on the avr then executed...it might be some kind of script file that is executed by an interpreter on the avr.
[16:05:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> I would use a hex editor and see what is in the file.
[16:05:37] <eszett> Lambda: On my Atmega32u4 there are 4 unused efuse bits: bit7 bit6 bit5 and bit4. I figured out (after some hours!!) that when setting the efuses, they are: bit7="1", bit6="1", bit5="0", bit4="0". Is there any reason for this weird setting i have to follow?
[16:05:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> good old fashioned hacking.
[16:06:18] <mohsen_1> Lambda_Aurigae: Also my friend says the text don't get displayed on the display when the SD card isn't plugged in.
[16:06:30] <eszett> When i try to set these 4 bits to anything else then 1100.. then AVRdude goes crazy, with errors.
[16:06:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> mohsen_1, then the data is in that file, somehow.
[16:07:14] <eszett> I thought unused fuse bits are "deactivated", ie. set to "1" by default.
[16:07:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> eszett, those are unused and should, really, be written as 1
[16:07:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> normally, anyhow.
[16:07:45] <eszett> ye normally...
[16:08:14] <mohsen_1> Lambda_Aurigae: what do you suggest as a typical hex editor?
[16:08:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> mohsen_1, I suspect there is some program that goes with that sign that sets up the display stuff and writes it to sd card.
[16:08:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> mohsen_1, I use hexedit
[16:09:24] <carabia> mohsen_1, oh it has a "slut" for an SD card?
[16:09:35] <carabia> mohsen_1, HxD is pretty good.
[16:09:42] <carabia> use that and check the data
[16:09:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> all depends on your operating system.
[16:10:01] <eszett> Lambda: when i set them to 1111... as here
http://pastebin.com/nkx3Kpwm AVRdude says "content mismatch" etc. When i set them to "1100", the AvrDude processes everything smoothly without errors.
[16:10:12] <mohsen_1> carabia: I misspeled that somewhere else too when I was trying to explain my problem.
[16:10:18] <mohsen_1> Lambda_Aurigae: I'm on linux.
[16:10:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> then the chip is responding with 1100 when it reads back the fuses.
[16:10:41] <eszett> what does that mean?
[16:10:47] <mohsen_1> yes hexedit is in our official repos.
[16:10:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> eszett, so, it's a typo in the datasheet or a horkup on the chip.
[16:11:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> hexedit is a console program by the way.
[16:11:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> no new fangled gui.
[16:11:27] <eszett> Lambda: or maybe a misdesign by Atmel
[16:11:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> eszett, yes...a horkup on the chip.
[16:11:43] <eszett> yea i understand
[16:12:25] <mohsen_1> Lambda_Aurigae: Don't you know an easier one to use?
[16:12:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's super simple to use.
[16:12:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> type
[16:12:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> hexedit filenamegoeshere.ext
[16:12:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> use arrows to move and look
[16:13:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> hit F1 for help.
[16:13:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> or open another console and type man hexedit
[16:13:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> all the commands are in there
[16:13:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's easier to use than vi
[16:14:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> eszett, a good way to avoid that situation in the future is to read the fuses first and look and see what bits are set where and compare them to the actual active bits in the datasheet or a fusecalc
[16:16:52] <mohsen_1> I do believe that console apps are way more easier to use when you learn their options and commands, but sometimes time matters. however I got this reading via hexedit:
http://i.imgur.com/7z1TXa1.png
[16:17:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> that's not likely all the data
[16:17:46] <mohsen_1> well I have the option to scroll
[16:17:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> use page or arrow keys
[16:17:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> go down.
[16:18:00] <mohsen_1> Until?
[16:18:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> until you see something interesting.
[16:18:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> or,,,learn how to figure out what the data means.
[16:18:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's not something I can tell you in 3 minutes on irc.
[16:18:26] <antto> nekkid chick in ascii
[16:18:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's something I've learned over the last 40 years.
[16:18:34] <carabia> mohsen_1, what's the fs on the card?
[16:18:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> and am still learning.
[16:19:13] <mohsen_1> carabia: don't know, I just received the file that was stored on it, but I can ask for it?
[16:19:17] <carabia> or wait no... you don't have to actually traverse the fs cause the os will do that for you 8)
[16:19:54] <carabia> well, mohsen, I would probably start with searching the displayed text within the file
[16:19:57] <carabia> and go from there
[16:20:18] <carabia> mind you they might be 16-bit characters so you might not find it with a simple search
[16:20:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> the .ged is likely not an "official" extension..it is a proprietary format.
[16:20:28] <eszett> Lambda: right, I should have read the fuses and analyze its default setting beforehand, instead of trusting blindly the fuse calculator.
[16:20:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> you might have to try converting data to binary, looking at it, comparing it with what is actually displayed on the sign.
[16:21:14] <carabia> mohsen_1, it might be useful if you'd share what it's displaying, or at least the general application...?
[16:21:17] <mohsen_1> Lambda_Aurigae: What do you mean by the sign?
[16:21:29] <carabia> probably the display
[16:21:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> mohsen_1, you said this was from a sign...electronic display
[16:21:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> what's the resolution of the display?
[16:21:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> color or monochrome?
[16:21:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> does the text change?
[16:21:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> is it static?
[16:22:07] <mohsen_1> Lambda_Aurigae: it has 3 colors, the text changes.
[16:22:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> if it changes, how does it change? Wipe, slide, flicker,?
[16:22:32] <mohsen_1> Lambda_Aurigae: Do those really matter? Or are you trolling me:D?
[16:22:32] <carabia> Lambda_Aurigae, not necessary important
[16:22:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> you want to know what the data is in that file.
[16:22:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> need to know what that data looks like when output.
[16:23:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> to figure out what the data in the file is doing.
[16:23:17] <carabia> surely but that might not be coming from the file
[16:23:29] <carabia> though, it might, but really need to know the god damn application
[16:23:38] <carabia> to even determine if it's useful
[16:23:48] <carabia> so what on earth are you debugging, mohsen_1 ?
[16:24:08] <mohsen_1> carabia: We can't find the application, that's the problem actually, my first guess was that
[16:24:22] <mohsen_1> A program generated this .ged file
[16:25:01] <mohsen_1> And the avr uses it to decide what should be displayed on the display, so tried looking for the program that generated the .ged file to generate a new one with the new text
[16:25:05] <carabia> wtf? so you found an sd card off your backyard with some mysterious .ged files on it?
[16:25:14] <mohsen_1> Didn't have any luck finding it.
[16:25:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> you could always try to download the program off of the avr(if the lock fuses aren't set) and reverse engineer it from that end.
[16:25:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> carabia, it comes from some lighted display
[16:25:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> which, we don't know the make or model of either.
[16:25:38] <carabia> yeah I got that much
[16:25:40] <mohsen_1> I can share the file, if that can help
[16:25:46] <carabia> mohsen_1, sure
[16:25:58] <carabia> mohsen_1, but what I mean is, the application to which this mystery device was used for
[16:26:12] <carabia> if it's a god damn toilet brush? toaster? oven? fax machine?
[16:26:29] <carabia> to = for
[16:26:31] <mohsen_1> An ice-cream shop
[16:26:32] <mohsen_1> :D
[16:26:48] * mohsen_1 is uploading the file...
[16:26:53] <carabia> oh, so it's some sort of a billboard eh?
[16:27:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> as I said before...a sign...
[16:27:10] <carabia> Lambda_Aurigae, I don't trust you
[16:27:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> neither do I.
[16:27:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> but, what the heck.
[16:27:24] <carabia> then you'll understand me.
[16:27:29] <mohsen_1> carabia: Yes.
[16:27:46] <carabia> alright gimme the link i'll take a look at it
[16:28:08] <carabia> mind you as I grow older it seems time has the backwards effect on me in shortening my attention span. I always believed it was the other way round
[16:28:18] <carabia> So maybe I can focus for roundabout 5 mins.
[16:29:33] <carabia> ...This is getting super scary. I'm starting to think this file is in the order of gigabytes
[16:30:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> dunno..haven't seen the link.
[16:30:07] <carabia> me neither but it's taking long
[16:30:13] <mohsen_1> carabia: No I'm just logging into my microsoft live account to upload.
[16:30:21] <carabia> =D
[16:30:23] <mohsen_1> It's around 2.5mb
[16:30:38] <carabia> that's quite a lot
[16:30:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> sounds like a raw streamed graphic for an LED sign.
[16:32:01] <carabia> could be, then again if it's a sign... probably would be an led matrix, driving an led matrix with an avr... dubious...
[16:32:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've seen them driven with an 8051
[16:32:27] <mohsen_1> here the link:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AoR-QsbSl8qQhpANovzIJ8HNF4422g
[16:32:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> 8 panels, 16x32 LEDs per panel...just a simple serial stream sent through from one end to the other.
[16:33:41] <carabia> mohsen_1, what size is the display?
[16:33:44] <carabia> as in, resolution
[16:34:10] <mohsen_1> carabia: let me ask it from the owner
[16:34:16] <carabia> alright
[16:35:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> and what is displayed?
[16:35:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> the data is in definite blocks that could be characters.
[16:36:26] <mohsen_1> carabia: The width I think is 80
[16:36:47] <mohsen_1> Lambda_Aurigae: Yes, since we live in Iran they're in persian language, so utf-8 characters.
[16:37:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> oh...that will totally screw me up...hehe
[16:37:04] <mohsen_1> Lambda_Aurigae: I can give you a few words that get written on it that are in persian
[16:37:38] <mohsen_1> Why:D?
[16:38:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> I don't know your alphabet so it will look funky to me.
[16:38:07] <mohsen_1> When I opened it using notepad on windows, the content were kinda weird, like when I open a binary file.
[16:38:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> first character seems to start at 0x0200
[16:38:16] <mohsen_1> Its like Arabic
[16:38:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah..I never learned Arabic.
[16:38:42] <mohsen_1> Well the alphabet IS arabic, we use the exact same alphabet.
[16:38:49] <carabia> so they are 2 bytes
[16:38:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> joking.
[16:39:06] <carabia> the width is 80? what about the height?
[16:39:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> 3 color...are they red, green, amber pixels?
[16:39:31] <carabia> and it's 80 characters or pixels or whatthethefuckfuck?
[16:40:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> what are the first two characters displayed?
[16:40:17] <mohsen_1> carabia: 80 leds I think, I can give you a thorough intel about the device tomorrow, I can go to his shop.
[16:40:30] <carabia> so 80 pixels it is
[16:41:39] <carabia> to reverse-engineer this, you'd need a bit more info, yeah. As in, what size are the characters and so on.
[16:43:53] <mohsen_1> Lambda_Aurigae: The colors are that yes.
[16:44:07] <mohsen_1> Lambda_Aurigae: I can give you the words that are displayed
[16:44:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> so give.
[16:44:35] <mohsen_1> ساندویچ، بندری
[16:44:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> the data is obviously in character by character format...it's a binary image.
[16:44:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> I thought you said they were the same characters we used!
[16:44:53] <mohsen_1> These are the two words that I'm sure gets displayed on it.
[16:45:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> that looks nothing like my alphabet.
[16:45:17] <eszett> OMG its arabic, I hope you are no fundamentalist ;-)
[16:45:32] <mohsen_1> Lambda_Aurigae: Are you arabian?
[16:45:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> jihadist!
[16:45:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> :}
[16:45:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> mohsen_1, nope.
[16:46:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> my grandfather raised arabians for a while years ago though...but those were horses.
[16:46:14] <carabia> I believe mohsen_1 just insulted your moms.
[16:46:14] * eszett likes people who dislikes religions.
[16:46:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm a rabid agnostic with anti-christian tendencies.
[16:47:14] * carabia does not care about religions. In the absense of religions people would find other excuses to kill
[16:47:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup.
[16:47:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> competition is a way of life.
[16:47:35] <carabia> the problem is really the people.
[16:47:47] <mohsen_1> carabia: I said it's the same alphabet that arabic uses, then he said that it doesn't look like his alphabet while I said it does, so thought he is arabian.
[16:48:01] <carabia> haha mohsen_1 yea
[16:48:15] <eszett> carabia: hmm maybe. It starts with the words "in the name of.." and maybe the warmongers would fill the blank with other words. Often we hear "democracy" or "freedom" as examples of those blankfillers.
[16:49:21] <mohsen_1> Lambda_Aurigae: So could you get any luck?
[16:49:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> a little.
[16:49:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> first character starts at 0x0200
[16:49:41] <carabia> eszett, the moral of the story is that it's quite moot to blame a certain idea. You can never rid the world of all of them. The real enemy is people's ignorance and stupidity.
[16:49:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> second character starts about 0x0320
[16:50:06] <carabia> Lambda_Aurigae, I don't think it's 0x0320
[16:50:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> second character starts about 0x0320
[16:50:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> I could be wrong..
[16:50:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> was just a guess from the looks
[16:50:18] <carabia> hold on let me check
[16:50:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> third seems to start around 0x04A0
[16:51:33] <mohsen_1> Some program must have generated this file indeed?
[16:51:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> yes.
[16:51:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> this is a graphic file.
[16:51:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> not a png or bmp or anything standard.
[16:52:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> totally proprietary.
[16:52:09] <mohsen_1> I suspect g in the extension is related to graphic?
[16:52:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> I suspect someone pulled it out of their ass when writing the program.
[16:52:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> but it could mean graphic.
[16:52:56] <mohsen_1> So do I
[16:53:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> graphic extended display....
[16:53:21] <carabia> actually yeah you could be right about 0x320
[16:54:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> could be as early as the 0xEF at 0x31c
[16:54:15] <eszett> carabia: i dont think so. to blame stupidity is abit of a hybris of the intellectual elite. I guess it rather has to do with frustration & poverty & testosterone, which mix up to a dangerous cocktail.
[16:55:31] <carabia> well, the inability for critical thinking is a form of stupidity in my books
[16:55:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> but it doesn't quite jive with later characters as they are wider.
[16:56:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> it would take a lot more massaging the data to get anything useful out of it I believe.
[16:56:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> ignorance can be cured...stupidity should be fatal.
[16:57:16] <mohsen_1> Lambda_Aurigae: See the first abbreviation, I guess that's related:
https://datatypes.net/open-ged-files
[16:57:48] <eszett> carabia: ye to some degree this too. critical thinking is often induced by a certain social environment, certain literature. It rarly appears out of nowhere.
[16:58:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> mohsen_1, I doubt it's that. Otherwise one of my graphic programs would have opened it.
[16:58:25] <mohsen_1> What if it's really old?
[16:58:30] <carabia> eszett, to some degree
[16:58:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> mohsen_1, then you are screwed.
[16:58:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> because it's not one of the regularly known .ged file formats that I can find.
[16:59:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> mohsen_1, if I knew the exact size of the display and had a video of what it was displaying I could, in all likelyhood, reverse engineer what is in that file and even write a program to create such a file.
[16:59:46] <carabia> mohsen_1, any idea on the height of the screen?
[16:59:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> I doubt you want to spend the money that would require.
[17:01:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> if you look at the file you can tell where there are definite separations of what appears to be individual characters.
[17:02:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> I would convert that data to a binary representation and put it on a display where I could manually shift the width of the data and look for patterns.
[17:03:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> if I had a clue as to the dimensions of the display it would help in figuring out the proper data width to be looking for.
[17:03:22] <mohsen_1> Tomorrow I'll go to his shop and connect from there and give you all the necessary information, even a video of it.
[17:03:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> it might require pulling every second bit out or every second byte or other massaging of the data until the pattern appears.
[17:04:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm betting there's a lot of bit packing in there.
[17:04:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> 80 pixels long and maybe 16, 24, or 32 pixels high.
[17:05:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> each pixel is likely 2 bits giving 4 colors...black, red, green, amber
[17:05:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> black = off....red = +/- polarity....green = -/+ polarity....amber = AC
[17:05:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> at least, that's how the LEDs I've used that are those colors are driven.
[17:06:28] <mohsen_1> Lambda_Aurigae: The dimension I provided is not kinda trusted, because it's around 2 AM here and my friend was sleep when I called to get the information:D
[17:10:19] <mohsen_1> So you mean the person that created this file actually wrote a binary image in hex format?
[17:13:31] <mohsen_1> So see you tomorrow guys.
[17:30:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> oh no! Run! It's LoRez!!
[18:44:36] <carabia> has that us guy been around who was suing the state for something like USD tens of millions cause the cops pulled him over and busted him for cannabis?
[18:45:13] <carabia> he was just doing assembler stuff for avrs
[18:48:57] <aczid> sounds like a pretty cool guy :)
[18:50:58] <carabia> yeah, according to him his court case was bulletproof, it was merely a matter of time before he i quote "got around to file the case"
[18:51:04] <carabia> so $$$ for him!
[18:53:50] <carabia> can't remember the name but i'll remember it when i see it. Last I saw him was a few months ago when he refused to answer my question concerning the progress of his get-rich -plan
[22:18:19] <Casper> carabia: was that guy from this channel?
[22:26:53] <carabia> Casper, yes
[22:28:02] <Casper> any idea when it happened?
[22:28:47] <Casper> mark4 ?
[22:50:21] <carabia> Yes. Mark4 it was.
[22:50:31] <carabia> Thanks! =D
[23:00:57] <Casper> he dosen't look like he had all of his mind...
[23:01:36] <Casper> wouln't be surprised if he is one of those sovereign citizen...
[23:37:51] <carabia> I know - almost for a fact - that he IS
[23:39:09] <Casper> I saw some funny video a few days ago about them...
[23:39:38] <Casper> man... they are... no comment..
[23:39:53] <Casper> like "I'm not driving, I'm traveling" ...
[23:42:41] <carabia> That was one of mark's claims too
[23:46:10] <Casper> "you have no authority because the (whatever bill declaring it a country) has not been signed.... so what? it has been recently signed, so your point is null
[23:46:21] <Casper> (and yes, they forgot that detail)
