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[07:37:56] <LeoNerd> Ohoh! :) My mega328PB breakout PCBs have arrived.
[07:40:23] <LeoNerd> Now I guess I'll have to add 328PB support to all my libraries.. hrm
[07:47:49] <_ami_> LeoNerd: how different is 328bp from 328p?
[07:47:53] * _ami_ googles
[08:03:57] <LeoNerd> Added periphs, basically.
[08:04:14] <LeoNerd> Second UART, SPI and I²C module; more timers; added 4 pins of a PORTE
[08:04:42] <LeoNerd> Those two ADC-only pins of ADC6 and ADC7 on the 328P are now fully digital-capable as PE0 and PE1, and also added are two more digitals of PE2 and PE3
[08:05:03] <LeoNerd> I'm mostly interested in it because two UARTs
[08:06:08] <LeoNerd> Ohballs. My copy of avrdudoe doesn't support the 328PB
[08:06:10] <LeoNerd> dude
[08:06:43] <LeoNerd> Someone remind me - how do I get avr-gcc to print its list of supported MCU types?
[08:06:46] <LeoNerd> -mmcu=? doesn't
[08:10:24] <LeoNerd> OK so, my avr-gcc recognises mega328pb, my avrdude and avr-libc don't. :(
[08:36:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> you will need to update them.
[08:39:49] <_ami_> avrdude -c usbasp -p ?
[08:40:37] <_ami_> i think you will be okay with avrdude -c usbasp -p m328p option?
[08:40:45] <_ami_> LeoNerd: ^
[08:45:03] <_ami_> you will need to add support for 328BP in avr-libc for sure.
[08:45:28] <_ami_> only io file for 328bp should be enough?
[08:45:42] <_ami_> iom328bp.h?
[08:48:03] <LeoNerd> That's avrdude. I wanted avr-gcc. But yes; that's how to query avrdude
[08:48:20] <LeoNerd> And you can't just use avrdude -p [a different chip] because if nothing else, the signature row will be wrong
[08:48:50] <LeoNerd> I'm quite sure I *could* take the 328P definition files for each tool and copy / modify as required. I was just imagining someone else somewhere had already done it
[08:48:53] <LeoNerd> I can't be the first person ever
[08:50:42] <cehteh> iirc there where resources on the net. search harder
[08:51:04] <cehteh> also newer libc should have 328bp defs
[08:51:39] <LeoNerd> OK; possibly for libc I just have to poke debian
[08:52:11] <LeoNerd> Hrm; latest candidate available even in unstable is 1.8.0+Atmel3.5.0-1 which is what I have installed
[09:04:33] <twnqx> i have 2.0 installed
[09:04:56] <twnqx> [I] cross-avr/avr-libc [1]
[09:04:57] <twnqx> Available versions: 1.6.2 (~)1.6.4 (~)1.6.8 (~)1.7.0 (~)1.7.1 1.8.0 (~)1.8.1 (~)2.0.0 {doc nls CROSSCOMPILE_OPTS="headers-only"}
[09:04:57] <twnqx> Installed versions: 2.0.0(19:13:54 17/06/16)(-doc CROSSCOMPILE_OPTS="-headers-only")
[09:04:58] <twnqx> :)
[09:16:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> LeoNerd, you will need to at least add a definition to the avrdude.conf file to match the 328pb device signature.
[09:23:33] <LeoNerd> Yah
[09:23:56] <LeoNerd> I've done avrdude before, e.g. for the tiny841, but that time libc itself at least knew it
[09:25:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> updating libc for the 328p to 328pb is going to be non-trivial because you have to add the extra peripherals.
[09:25:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> and maybe change some port values.
[09:26:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> err...register values or locations
[09:26:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> you would have to compare all the registers to make sure they are the same and any changes have to be made in the relevant files.
[09:27:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm sure there are new registers and changes in bit assignments in existing registers to handle the extra peripherals.
[09:34:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> atmel's latest toolchain release supports with both gcc and libc.
[09:35:37] <Tom_itx> do they still post the standalone links to them?
[09:35:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> avr-libc version 2.0.0 supports it directly it seems.
[09:36:25] * LeoNerd in other news, still looking for a machine-readable fuse database
[09:36:39] <LeoNerd> I mean, I could make one out of the avr-libc .h files, but I would hate to think that nobody else has done one yet
[09:37:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> hmmm...apparently savannah's version does not support it without a patch.
[09:38:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> that fuse database should be in atmel studio somewhere.
[09:38:11] <LeoNerd> It isn't
[09:38:24] <LeoNerd> The devices XML files know the meaning of every fuse bit, but they don't know what *default* values are on a per-chip basis
[09:38:29] <LeoNerd> It's the defaults I want
[09:38:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> aahh.
[09:39:03] <LeoNerd> The AVR libc .h files know the default values of each fuse byte, but don't know the meaning of the bits. So I can combine them
[09:39:16] <LeoNerd> Annoyingly, the .h files aren't *very* machine-readable, without having a basically full C preprocessor
[09:39:16] <Tom_itx> what about xml files?
[09:39:21] <Tom_itx> those come with studio
[09:39:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> have you asked the maker of the engbedded fuse calc where they got it?
[09:39:36] <xa0z> Ok, Tom_itx I found this,
http://digistump.com/wiki/digispark/tutorials/connecting
[09:39:39] <LeoNerd> Lambda_Aurigae: Yes. I emailed months ago. No reply
[09:39:48] <LeoNerd> Tom_itx: Yes; as I *just said* those files don't know the default values
[09:40:04] <Tom_itx> ahh, i'm in several channels here... missed that
[09:40:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> it seems to me there was an xml file that had all that...maybe you have to get it straight from atmel.
[09:40:18] <LeoNerd> Yes there is an XML file, no it doesn't have the defaults
[09:40:21] <LeoNerd> Unless I just can't see it
[09:41:19] <LeoNerd> http://paste.debian.net/781999/ <== e.g. here is a tiny841
[09:41:21] <LeoNerd> I don't see defaults in there
[09:42:17] <Tom_itx> dean doesn't show up much here anymore does he?
[09:42:58] <xa0z> I've wanted to try and catch him, but eventually found someone on Freelancer to help me with my issue lol
[09:43:12] <xa0z> USB is just such a bitch
[09:43:23] <Tom_itx> may be better off emailing him
[09:43:34] <LeoNerd> "dean"?
[09:43:41] <Tom_itx> aka abcminiuser
[09:43:48] <Tom_itx> dean camera
[09:44:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://eleccelerator.com/fusecalc/ check with the guy from here.
[09:44:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> he found the files.
[09:44:09] <Tom_itx> aka fourwalledcubicle dot com
[09:44:37] <xa0z> He's like one of the most well known guys in development board programming (imo)
[09:45:22] <Tom_itx> i think his gf is turning him into an old man
[09:45:34] <xa0z> That'll happen :(
[09:46:05] <xa0z> The law turned me into an old man :(
[09:46:28] <Tom_itx> naw, you did that on your own
[09:46:34] <xa0z> haha
[09:47:08] <Tom_itx> funny how they get blamed so often
[09:47:30] <xa0z> Well, I mean more like new laws, rules, etc. I don't mean that I got punnished.
[09:47:40] <Tom_itx> ahh
[09:48:00] <xa0z> New rules meant not being able to do some of the fun things I used to do.
[09:49:24] <Tom_itx> i'm too old to be doing some of those now anyway
[09:49:44] <WormFood> Can anyone point me to a tutorial on footprints? I'm doing a PCB layout, and not sure what type of footprints I need for some of my components.
[09:49:45] <xa0z> same here. It was different 15-18 years ago playing around with TiVo, DSS, etc.
[09:51:14] <xa0z> Oh, and XM/Dish jtagging
[09:51:22] <xa0z> Boy, the times have flown by
[09:51:51] <WormFood> I used to write software for Dish cards :D
[09:52:34] <xa0z> Dish?
[09:52:52] <xa0z> Dish didn't even need cards.
[09:53:26] <WormFood> DishNet
[09:53:42] <xa0z> Never needed cards for Dish Network, or Bell.
[09:53:48] <WormFood> BEV
[09:53:52] <xa0z> Bell = BEV
[09:54:17] <WormFood> If you didn't want to be attacked, you needed cards.
[09:55:05] <xa0z> Nah, because with Dish, you just find a # that hasn't been blocked, since Dish only sent the kill signal a few times and then stopped, where DTV sends it for like 2 years straight.
[09:55:18] <WormFood> too many things the emulators didn't emulate. They became targets for attack. Since I had the source code to my emulator, I didn't care.
[09:55:24] <WormFood> That's not true.
[09:55:33] <Tom_itx> WormFood, usually the data sheets will have the pad layout
[09:55:34] <xa0z> We never used emulators, or cards with Dish, only with DTV.
[09:55:41] <WormFood> Even after 2 years, dish still sent the desub packet
[09:56:02] <WormFood> Tom_itx, but there are lots of standard sizes
[09:56:10] <xa0z> I still have a black sunday card (dtv) with the music channels working.
[09:56:30] <WormFood> For the longest time, dishnet didn't encrypt their music channels.
[09:56:59] <Tom_itx> what types of components?
[09:57:17] <WormFood> normal stuff. Diodes, resistors, caps, leds
[09:57:31] <WormFood> Still trying to find the proper footprint for the USB connector.
[09:57:54] <Tom_itx> not sure what you're using but eagle has been pretty good about adding general components
[09:58:07] <WormFood> I sometimes wrote software, only for emulated smart cards. (you wouldn't want to run it on a real card)
[09:58:12] <Tom_itx> i ended up making my usb one (s)
[09:58:14] <WormFood> I'm using KiCad
[09:58:19] <Tom_itx> mmm
[09:58:23] <Tom_itx> can't help you there
[09:58:36] <Tom_itx> i've got eagle files for several usb connectors
[09:58:52] <Tom_itx> mini b mostly
[09:58:54] <WormFood> xa0z, did you run emulation on the computer, or did you use FTA receivers for dishnet?
[09:59:21] <WormFood> My device, will be similar to a usb flash memory stick.
[09:59:23] <xa0z> On Dish, we always just jtag and burned a new #
[09:59:27] <WormFood> so, I need that style of connector.
[09:59:28] <xa0z> We never had to emulate.
[09:59:36] <WormFood> Bullshit.
[09:59:49] <xa0z> Nope, on Dish we used emulator maybe for a year.
[09:59:53] <xa0z> err, DTV
[10:00:07] <WormFood> Dishnet only needed a jtag, to retrieve the receiver keys, to program into the card
[10:00:30] <xa0z> Yea
[10:00:35] <WormFood> And I tended to reprogram the IRD #, and keys.
[10:00:36] <xa0z> We did not have cards
[10:00:48] <xa0z> Hell, I still do not have cards in my dish receivers today.
[10:00:52] <WormFood> If you used the legit receiver, then you had a card, or were emulating it.
[10:00:58] <Tom_itx> http://www.moddiy.com/product_images/uploaded_images/patillaje-conector-usb.jpg
[10:01:33] <WormFood> You do. They ALL have cards. They're just internal on the newer receivers, but I assure you, they're still there (I know for a fact, because I've removed them before). Also, you'll notice, there is a card slot, for a different cam, if they ever need to upgrade it.
[10:02:01] <WormFood> I know extremely well how that stuff works.
[10:02:38] <xa0z> lol
[10:03:01] <xa0z> Anyone still messing with FTA?
[10:03:03] <WormFood> I live in China now. I have friends from Canada that I've met here, that used my smart card software before. That was kinda cool (it isn't the first time that has happened)
[10:03:14] <WormFood> As far as I know, the only thing they're doing now, is card sharing.
[10:03:30] <WormFood> When I was into it, they gave you about 16 seconds to get the key to the receiver.
[10:03:51] <xa0z> It has been years since I've seen anyone messing with FTA. A neighbor of mine had some junky coolsat receiver and always kept asking about programming it.
[10:04:13] <WormFood> They could lower that time, but it is always a trade off. If customers have a problem, a shorter time may cause them problems.
[10:04:54] <WormFood> I had my mom smuggle my DM500s receiver into China for me (it's illegal to bring used radio equipment into China...don't ask why, I have no idea)
[10:05:58] <WormFood> As far as I can see, key sharing will *always* work, as long as we can disassemble the receiver's firmware.
[10:06:23] <xa0z> I have 2m/10m/11m/70cm radios from China that aren't legal in the US. That's about as far as I go with that kinda stuff.
[10:06:37] <WormFood> as long as we can emulate the receiver, for communicating with the smart card, then we'll always be able to retrieve the keys.
[10:07:23] <WormFood> If you're a ham, and you're operating on the 2m/10m/70cm bands, it's up to you to make sure your radio is legal.
[10:07:44] <xa0z> Yea, type accecptance is the one rule.
[10:07:46] <WormFood> Since you're allowed to build your own radio
[10:07:49] <WormFood> not for hams
[10:08:00] <xa0z> It is for many frequencies.
[10:08:04] <xa0z> MURS for one.
[10:08:19] <WormFood> hams are an exception. I'm not saying it's legal to import them into usa, but if you have them, it's legal to use, as long as it meets all the technical requirements.
[10:08:19] <xa0z> FRS, GMRS.
[10:08:35] <WormFood> That's a totally different story. I was specifically saying about hams.
[10:08:54] <WormFood> I used to fix CB radios, and sometimes I'd convert them to run on 10 meters.
[10:09:14] <xa0z> I've got several 11m radios that I use on 10m.
[10:09:17] <WormFood> I mean, I used to fix CB radios professionally, in a truck stop. That was a fun job
[10:09:46] <xa0z> Well, 10m radios on 11m.
[10:09:59] <xa0z> My Galaxy 88 is my favorite.
[10:10:03] <WormFood> I once took an old courier gladiator 23 channel radio, with an upd858 PLL, and did a thumbwheel conversion on it. Do you know about that?
[10:10:20] <WormFood> The Galaxy 88 is an export CB radio. It isn't a ham radio.
[10:10:35] <WormFood> It does go into the ham bands, but that isn't where it was designed for.
[10:10:49] <xa0z> Right, which is illegal in the US.
[10:11:01] <xa0z> And it's not a CB.
[10:11:06] <WormFood> It's not illegal if you're a ham, and you're using it in ham bands.
[10:11:09] <WormFood> It is a CB radio
[10:11:15] <WormFood> I can prove it.
[10:11:18] <xa0z> It is illegal for resell in the US, whether you're a ham or not.
[10:11:28] <xa0z> It's on the FCC ban list.
[10:11:38] <WormFood> You have a channel selector, that goes from 1 to 40, right?
[10:11:54] <xa0z> Well yea, with a frequency counter.
[10:12:16] <WormFood> If you're a ham, and you happen to have one, then it's legal for you to own it, if you use it within the limits of your license. I never said it was legal to sell or import.
[10:13:04] <xa0z> As far as I was aware, if it can do both 10, and 11 meters in the US, you're not suppose to have it, or use it.
[10:13:09] <eszett> Hi guys..
[10:13:23] <WormFood> There is a band, probably C or D, where channel 1 is 26.965, and channel 40 is 27.405....that PROVES it's a CB radio.
[10:13:50] <xa0z> It proves it uses the CB band, but doesn't make it a legal CB radio.
[10:13:55] <WormFood> As a licensed ham, I'm allowed to put a radio anywhere I want. Doesn't mean I can transmit there, but I can modify it however I want.
[10:14:09] <xa0z> Same with those cheap FRS radios at Walmart that kids can use the GMRS frequencies (illegally)
[10:14:13] <WormFood> I never said it was a LEGAL CB radio. I said it's an export CB radio
[10:14:32] <WormFood> I'm pretty sure those are not illegal
[10:14:47] <xa0z> No, it's not illegal, but it's illegal for anyone to use GMRS without a license.
[10:14:57] <WormFood> Read up on the changes to the law. If they're super low power, they're allowed to use some of those frequencies without a license.
[10:15:36] <WormFood> I know what you're talking about, but you haven't kept up to date with the FRS changes. Read up on 'em.
[10:15:53] <xa0z> I've not seen anything new related to GMRS laws.
[10:16:05] <xa0z> s/laws/rules/
[10:17:15] <WormFood> http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Family_Radio_Service
[10:18:01] <xa0z> Yea, it says in Canada.
[10:18:11] <WormFood> Also for usa
[10:18:19] <WormFood> they limit them to 500mw
[10:18:56] <xa0z> Yea, FRS is limited to 500mw.
[10:19:17] <WormFood> and, no license, even for the GMRS frequencies.
[10:19:24] <xa0z> No, it doesn't say that.
[10:19:53] <learath> WormFood: so are you going to use the new unlicensed 60ghz band? :P
[10:20:55] <WormFood> https://www.fcc.gov/general/general-mobile-radio-service-gmrs xa0z, read it straight from the FCC
[10:21:15] <WormFood> "If you operate a radio that has been approved for both FRS and GMRS, and if you limit your operations to the FRS channels with a maximum power of ½ watt effective radiated power and an integral antenna, you are not required to have a license."
[10:21:49] <WormFood> "(Note that some dual-service radios transmit with higher power on FRS channels 1 through 7; these radios can be used without a license only on FRS channels 8 through 14.)"
[10:22:17] <WormFood> xa0z, so all this time, you thought those radios were illegal, and they weren't :P
[10:22:25] <xa0z> Huh?
[10:22:33] <xa0z> That's not what I said.
[10:22:39] <WormFood> FCC says you don't need a license
[10:23:00] <xa0z> Again, the FCC clearly says to use the GMRS channels, you need a license.
[10:23:07] <WormFood> The FRS frequencies, that are shared with GMRS, do not require a license
[10:23:15] <xa0z> If you have a FRS/GMRS combo radio, you may use the FRS channels only, not the GMRS channels.
[10:23:33] <WormFood> only if you limit the power to 500 mw
[10:23:41] <WormFood> and some other restrictions.
[10:23:44] <xa0z> No, that isn't what it says lol
[10:23:45] <WormFood> Then you don't need a license.
[10:23:55] <WormFood> Did you not understand what it says?
[10:24:24] <WormFood> The FCC's own words dude, "If you operate a radio that has been approved for both FRS and GMRS, and if you limit your operations to the FRS channels with a maximum power of ½ watt effective radiated power and an integral antenna, you are not required to have a license."
[10:24:53] <xa0z> FRS channels <--
[10:24:54] <WormFood> Some FRS channels are shared with GMRS
[10:24:59] <xa0z> No they aren't.
[10:25:07] <xa0z> FRS is 1-14 and GMRS is 15-22
[10:25:16] <xa0z> Or vise versa
[10:25:29] <xa0z> Hell I guess I need to look at the map
[10:25:33] <xa0z> chart, not map
[10:25:48] <WormFood> YOU need to look at the channel chart
[10:26:02] <WormFood> FRS 1-7 is the same as GMRS 9-15
[10:26:17] <WormFood> You think I'm just making this up?
[10:26:24] <WormFood> http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/FRS/GMRS_combined_channel_chart
[10:28:04] <xa0z> Ok, what I'm calling GMRS is channels 15-22
[10:28:21] <xa0z> I'm referring FRS to channels 1-14
[10:28:31] <WormFood> which is GMRS channels 1 through 8
[10:28:34] <xa0z> I know it shows GMRS 9-15 is FRS 1-7
[10:28:43] <WormFood> And, those have a max of 50 watts
[10:28:54] <WormFood> They ARE the same frequencies
[10:28:59] <xa0z> It says 5.
[10:29:08] <WormFood> different channel numbers between the 2 systems, but same frequencies
[10:29:20] <WormFood> GMRS is limited to 5 watts on those frequencies
[10:29:33] <WormFood> FRS is always limited to 500 mw, and license free
[10:29:40] <xa0z> Right.
[10:30:03] <xa0z> I wasn't classifying the GMRS 9-15 as FRS.
[10:30:07] <WormFood> This is a great design, because it gives GMRS users the ability to communicate with FRS users.
[10:30:18] <xa0z> Right
[10:30:27] <xa0z> I see where the confusion was.
[10:31:01] <WormFood> So, all this time you were wrong :P
[10:31:39] <xa0z> No, I'm still saying GMRS radios sold at Walmart are not for legal use by someone without a license on channels 15-22
[10:33:25] <WormFood> I never said it was
[10:33:47] <WormFood> I said FRS radios, using GMRS frequencies, are legal, without a license, if they limit their power.
[10:34:11] <xa0z> But these combined radios now include GMRS 15-22 and you'll hear kids talking on them all the time, without a license.
[10:34:38] <xa0z> That's all I was saying, all along. I wasn't classifying the lower FRS as GMRS.
[10:34:40] <WormFood> Then, those radios should have some kinda lockout on them
[10:34:59] <WormFood> to prevent accidental illegal use
[10:35:01] <xa0z> Right.
[10:35:11] <WormFood> I gotta go. Back in 7 minutes
[10:35:27] <xa0z> You can go buy a cheap Cobra FRS radio from Walmart and it says 22 channel family radio service, and it's false.
[10:39:29] <spybert> I will note that the GMRS and FRS frequencies are unused in most of the country
[10:40:30] <xa0z> Yea
[10:41:00] <spybert> So it is really just an academic dispute
[10:43:22] <spybert> There isn't much demand anymore for short-range radio communications in areas with cellular service
[10:43:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> until a storm takes out the cell towers.
[10:43:59] <Chillum> emp
[10:44:06] <Chillum> solar flares
[10:44:09] <xa0z> That was one of the cool things about IDEN.
[10:45:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have an old 10m rig somewhere but no antenna and no current license.
[10:45:24] <xa0z> But yea, ESDA, and Ham operators put on yearly events and tests to ensure in the event of some damage to our communication systems, we'll still have some form of communication.,
[10:45:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> back in the day it took 5 to 10 minutes to warm up and stabilize.
[10:45:46] <xa0z> Ah, tube type?
[10:45:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup.
[10:45:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> was my father's
[10:46:00] <xa0z> But at least it was accurate.
[10:46:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup.
[10:46:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> and powerful.
[10:46:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> and, once up and running, rock solid and stable.
[10:46:40] <Chillum> and that series of tubes grew up to be the internet
[10:46:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> hehe.
[10:46:57] <xa0z> I run a 5x2879 transistor amp in my pickup. :/
[10:47:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> I haven't powered it up in 10 years or so.
[10:47:17] <spybert> I was recently looking at unlicensed radios for communications in areas without cell towers, and good old 27 MHz CB radio seems to win out
[10:47:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup.
[10:47:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> have a couple of those.
[10:47:35] <xa0z> With my 8w input, it puts out 600w on 14v.
[10:47:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> want to find a tube type CB.
[10:47:49] <spybert> for EMP resistance?
[10:48:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup.
[10:48:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> that's why I keep that old 10m rig.
[10:48:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's in a metal case with a waterproof seal too.
[10:48:51] <spybert> sounds great
[10:49:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah..my dad got the case from an army surplus store..it was used to ship and store radar gear.
[10:49:17] <spybert> except maybe for the weight issue :-)
[10:49:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> it does take 2 people to lift it into the truck.
[10:49:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> but the case doubles as a table once you have everything out.
[10:49:50] <xa0z> Dammit, this stupid Windows 7 laptop will not assign a driver to this tiny85 digispark when I connect it to upload the program from arduino before the 5 second timeout happens on the bootloader.
[10:49:59] <xa0z> I plug it in, and it says searching Windows update.
[10:50:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> yet another reason not to use windows.
[10:50:18] <Chillum> I thought the digispark was programmed through the spi pins
[10:50:26] <Chillum> and that its usb port was for your programs to use
[10:50:54] <xa0z> Well, I use FreeBSD but Arduino port is 1.0.6 and can't do everything I need with that.
[10:50:58] <xa0z> So I'm using my wifes laptop.
[10:51:44] <Chillum> I program mine with a set of clips that goes right over the attiny85
[10:52:06] <xa0z> I'm trying to use it the way they said to, through the USB port.
[10:52:29] <Chillum> does it even have a usb <-> serial bridge on it?
[10:52:34] <xa0z> Yes
[10:52:42] <Chillum> must be a different version than what I have then
[10:52:54] <Chillum> mine is just a regulator and an attiny
[10:52:58] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/attiny2313/attiny2.jpg
[10:53:02] <Tom_itx> proper procedure
[10:53:11] <Tom_itx> held in place with thumb
[10:53:16] <Chillum> seems legit
[10:54:00] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/attiny2313/attiny8.jpg
[10:54:09] <Tom_itx> put a recovery xtal on the bottom just in case
[10:55:41] <Tom_itx> Lambda_Aurigae, i happen to like windows 7
[10:55:55] <Tom_itx> but limit it's use to solidworks, catia and things like that
[10:56:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> I limit windows to xerox manuals and fiery command workstation..
[10:56:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> and that's on my work laptop only.
[10:56:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> my home computers don't have windows at all on them, not even in VM
[10:57:04] <Tom_itx> i probably have equal windows / linuc pc's
[10:57:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> I even converted my work laptop to linux and put win7 in a vm for manuals and command workstation.
[10:57:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> the flippin manuals are fully integrated into exploder.
[10:57:34] <Tom_itx> gave up on cpm but still have a dos 6.22 box
[10:57:55] <xa0z> My wife's PC is our only Windows PC. I have 5 SuperMicro 2x4 Xeon servers all running FreeBSD, 1 running Arch (for PBX), and my workstation running FreeBSD.
[10:58:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have a hardware cpm box that still runs.
[10:58:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> my commodore 128
[10:58:15] <Tom_itx> haha you are an ole fart
[10:58:25] <xa0z> I have a 128, and Amiga 1200!
[10:58:28] <twnqx> i sold mine when i was 16 to afford a PC :(
[10:58:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> wish I had a good amiga.
[10:58:44] <xa0z> I even had a VIC20 back when I was a kid.
[10:58:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> loved programming on those.
[10:58:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> still have two vic-20 boxes.
[10:58:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> and 6 c-64 and 1 c-64c
[10:59:11] <twnqx> get a c65, too!
[10:59:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> one of the vic-20 boxes has a power supply issue.
[10:59:13] <Tom_itx> i gave my c-64 lugable to the mailman
[10:59:13] <xa0z> One thing I loved about my c64 was my fastload cartridge.
[10:59:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have a 32GB SD card based floppy emulator for the commodores.
[11:00:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> has a little 16x2 lcd display on it and some buttons and I can swap floppy images...it thinks it's a 1571 drive.
[11:00:43] <xa0z> I went from the Amiga 1200 to a Mac Classic, then up from there through several generations of Macs, PowerPCs, then when OS X came out I moved to Linux.
[11:01:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have a mac128 and some powerpc mac as well.
[11:01:16] <xa0z> From Linux (Mandrake) I moved to Slackware, and from Slackware to Arch, and from Arch now to FreeBSD.
[11:01:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> powerpc mac doesn't run
[11:01:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> mac 128 (classic) does.
[11:01:40] <xa0z> I worked for a local school and got a lot of their old Macs either free, or very cheap.
[11:02:08] <xa0z> My very first ZIP drive was from a Mac.
[11:02:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm kinda sticking with debian and ubuntu just for the heck of it..and I'm lazy.
[11:03:13] <xa0z> Hell, my brother and I used those junky phone line network adapters for the Mac and played Doom over LAN on our old Performas and Quadras.
[11:03:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> ever use the power line network adapters?
[11:04:12] <xa0z> We never got into that kinda stuff.
[11:04:30] <xa0z> My first wireless network was some junky 2-Wire wireless router from Staples.
[11:04:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> they worked great so long as you were both on the same side of the power panel...if you were on different legs of mains power they didn't talk well.
[11:04:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> kinda slow, but they worked.
[11:05:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> I still have my first linksys WAP from back in the 90s.
[11:05:33] <xa0z> Did anyone else in here play with Liza on Commodore?
[11:05:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> a little.
[11:06:19] <xa0z> My brothers were obsessed with Monkey Island.
[11:06:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> wasnt it ELIZA though?
[11:07:03] <xa0z> Yea, ELIZA, my bad.
[11:07:10] <xa0z> Been a very long time lol
[11:07:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> early neural network software.
[11:07:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> I ran a fidonet node and BBS on a C64 for a year or so.
[11:07:52] <twnqx> wow
[11:08:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> 300 baud modem dude!
[11:08:07] <xa0z> I played around with GEOS a few times but it was so slow
[11:08:08] <twnqx> i used a few 386 and 486 for that :S
[11:08:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> GEOS on the c128 was better than the C64.
[11:08:21] <twnqx> v.34bis and ISDN multiline!
[11:08:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> specially if you had 1581 floppy drive or two.
[11:08:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> ISDN....it still does nothing.
[11:09:07] <xa0z> One of my dad's good friends ran a BBS locally, he had something like 40 modems, and we'd get on a play simple games like tic-tac-toe, hangman, trivia, and chat to the other users.
[11:09:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> by the time the 386 came around I was working with dedicated 56K lines and CSU/DSU systems, networking government offices together.
[11:09:21] <twnqx> 64kbit was nice in those days :P
[11:09:34] <twnqx> (euro-isdn)
[11:09:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah.
[11:09:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> USA artifically limited most of those to 56K here.
[11:10:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> tell ya what,,,,I'm having some serious troubles with phone systems these days and faxing.
[11:10:39] <xa0z> Haha, I remember when the 486 came out, my dad was working for World Color Press (Quebecore??) and he some how managed to get one from the factory to play with. That was a different time.
[11:10:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> we have small local telcos that are running voip for core communications.
[11:10:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> without end to end stable QOS.
[11:11:05] <twnqx> anything voip is dead here
[11:11:14] <twnqx> anythign non-voip*
[11:11:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> voip should have been stillborn!
[11:11:21] <twnqx> no more landlines, no more isdn
[11:11:28] <xa0z> death to g711?
[11:11:47] <twnqx> but even fax still works
[11:12:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> if you have good QOS end to end it is fine so long as you keep below about 20% saturation on your ethernet lines.
[11:12:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have several small towns where I can't get more than 9600 baud connect on fax or modem over the local phone lines.
[11:12:45] <xa0z> I use a cheap old 8x8 (packet8) ATA/DTA connected to my fax. It works pretty well.
[11:12:46] <twnqx> i'm on cable, and docsis to my knowledge still runs ATM behind
[11:12:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> they are running 16K or 32K channels for voice lines.
[11:13:11] <twnqx> or underneith or whatever :P
[11:13:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> twnqx, my phone company runs all atm too..I have fiber to the house too.
[11:13:46] <twnqx> over here it's separate VLANs on the ethernet layer and separate VCs on the atm layer
[11:13:51] <twnqx> so no way stuff can drop :P
[11:14:55] <xa0z> whew finally got arduino to upload.
[11:14:59] <xa0z> stupid windows drivers
[11:15:07] <xa0z> micronucleus done!
[11:16:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> but I'm running into more and more small local telcos that run voip over strange dsl gear.
[11:17:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> twnqx, that's how it should be.
[11:17:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> now any college dropout can buy the gear and setup their own telco.
[11:17:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> and without proper QOS you get compression or stretching of the audio...
[11:17:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's not enough to tell by ear
[11:18:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> but you put an oscope on the line and you can see it.
[11:18:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> I did that two weeks ago...
[11:18:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> one client couldn't fax to save their lives, but only long distance.
[11:19:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> we even cut it down to 4800 baud connect and it wouldn't send stable.
[11:19:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> put an oscope on the far end to watch the analog audio signal.
[11:19:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> holy shit....
[11:19:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> I hooked up two modems and just sent a stream of UUUUUU across it.
[11:19:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> so I would get a nice square wave.
[11:19:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> not even close!
[11:20:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> could see when packet bursts would go through as it would start stretching the audio signal out by as much as 0.1 second over a 1 second span then compress the next half a second to fit the extra data in.
[11:21:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> it was like first gen voip from the 90s running over a 10Mb/s hub!
[11:21:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> with someone streaming movies on the same hub.
[11:24:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> then when we kicked it up to 14.4K we were losing bits...lots of them...the underlying bandwidth couldn't handle the audio bandwidth needed for a 14.4K modem to talk.
[11:24:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> turned out to be their cheap long distance carrier.
[11:25:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> if they paid for the higher end long distance they would get better audio quality...and it would be usable for faxing.
[11:25:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> but, government contract took lowest bidder.
[11:25:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> I was able to prove that it wasn't my copiers..that it was definitely the phone system..
[11:26:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> after my other techs had been fighting it for 6 months.
[11:28:29] <Snert> geee. they need to get some bandwidth.
[11:29:09] <Snert> luckily it's like water these days
[12:09:30] <xa0z> I'm including DigiKeyboard.h and it's setting my device identification, but is there a way to manipulate that in the arduino src?
[12:27:23] <xa0z> Nevermind, done with usbconfig.h
[12:50:07] <xa0z> I really like these little digikey tiny85 usb board.
[12:50:21] <xa0z> loading the digikeyboard and making a keyboard emulator.
[12:52:57] <dan2wik> with BOD off, how long would it take for an atmega to startup?]
[12:54:51] <Tom_itx> depends on the fuse settings
[12:54:58] <Tom_itx> it's all right there in the data sheet
[13:35:52] <eszett2> What does the "V" in VBUS stand for please?
[13:37:02] <eszett2> voltage bus?
[13:39:29] <DKordic> eszett2: I guess `virtual'.
[13:39:33] <eszett2> hmm
[13:40:04] <eszett2> I have several VCC-ish pins on my atmega: AVCC, VCC, another VCC, another AVCC and VBUS
[13:40:31] <DKordic> *facepalm* I misread that as VUSB :) .
[13:41:03] <eszett2> The VBUS is usually the one directly connected to the power from USB right? the others are just subsidiaries, right
[13:41:51] <eszett2> ye, its VBUS
[13:42:03] <eszett2> the "U" in UVCC stands for "USB"
[14:27:08] <xa0z> Ok, sorry about that, had to reboot to ensure my keyboard emulator was going to work at POST and before all my kernel drivers were loaded.
[14:27:22] <xa0z> Happy Times.
[14:35:20] <DKordic> xa0z: Why are You making a keyboard?
[14:36:30] <xa0z> Headless systems with whole disk encryption. I just thought for the price of the tiny85, why not make it type/enter the pass phrase for me if I have to reboot the systems?
[14:37:20] <inkjetunito> for the price of a mega, can you make it code aswell? :)
[14:37:22] <xa0z> boots past the system POST and asks for the encryption key, so I walk over, put the dongle into the USB port, it enters the passphrase for me and starts blinking once it's done so I remove it.
[14:37:30] <xa0z> I have mega32u2 and mega32u4 as well.
[14:37:37] <xa0z> Did this with the Mega32u2 a few weeks ago.
[14:37:59] <xa0z> One of tom's breakout boards actually.
[14:39:31] <xa0z> Using Dean's keyboard library was more difficult for me because I'm not very good with C.
[14:43:49] <xa0z> Also, this tiny85 usb dongle cost me $5 for 5 of them with free shipping from China, so to be honest it wasn't a bad price.
[14:44:08] <xa0z> And it only took 4 days to get it here.
[14:57:10] <xa0z> Now to figure out how to turn off the main led, oo blink it since it's on full time.
[15:01:44] <eszett2> can someone give my a link for explaining decoupling caps and "reservoir" caps, and a rule of thumb how to use them with a Atmega?
[15:01:55] <eszett2> How many, and which values?
[15:06:58] <xa0z> I need to now locate tiny usb cases for my digispark dongles
[15:07:46] <inkjetunito> eszett2:
http://www.atmel.com/Images/Atmel-2521-AVR-Hardware-Design-Considerations_ApplicationNote_AVR042.pdf
[15:20:16] <eszett2> ye this application note I already read through..
[15:22:23] <eszett2> For example, a question I have is this. The "design guidelines" say "Ucap capacitor should be 1µF (+-10%) for correct operation." Is this cap a reservoir cap that can be positioned far away from the Atmega and close to the USB connector?
[15:26:13] <eszett2> The problem is im not quite familiar with the purpose of "Ucap" and whats it about =)
[15:27:28] <eszett2> What I understood is, that there a caps that prevent leads, and they have to be placed close to the pins of the Atmega. And there a caps that prevent gaps, they have a higher value, about 10µF. And they can be placed close to the power source (USB jack).
[15:29:08] <eszett2> are both types of caps called "decoupl. caps"?
[15:31:27] <learath> eszett2: I think you misunderstand
[15:31:31] <learath> or I do heh
[15:32:17] <learath> eszett2: so, my 50k ft view: the bigger the cap, the lower frequency noise it can suppress
[15:32:22] <learath> and the further from the load it can be
[15:32:31] <learath> the smalle the cap, the higher the frequency, the closer it has to be
[15:33:05] <learath> eszett2: does that make sense?
[15:34:51] <eszett2> ye
[15:35:21] <learath> Does it answer your question?
[15:35:30] <eszett2> well. im thinking about it
[15:36:01] <eszett2> the cap on VBUS can be directly to the usb jack, and doesnt need to be close to the atmega right?
[15:36:17] <learath> Big, low frequency cap?
[15:36:43] <eszett2> A big cap with 10µF
[15:37:13] <eszett2> alright..
[15:37:50] <learath> electrolytic?
[15:37:57] <eszett2> Now I have another rather medium big cap, which is 1µF and its for Ucap. Since its medium big, i cant place it as far as the 10µF right
[15:38:17] <eszett2> if its electrolytic or not, is something id like to know, the datasheet and application notes dont mention the type
[15:38:59] <learath> http://www.analog.com/media/en/training-seminars/tutorials/MT-101.pdf
[15:39:24] <learath> gives a rough rule of 10-100uf no more than 2 inches away, 0.01-0.1uf as close as possible
[15:39:37] <eszett2> So can i take this as rule of thumb (i just made this up out of thin air:) caps with value such as 0.1µF shall be 1cm close to Atmega. such as 1µF can be 5cm, and 10µF 10cm?
[15:39:42] <eszett2> ahhh
[15:39:48] <eszett2> thx, i write this down
[15:39:53] <learath> well hold up :)
[15:39:59] <learath> This is for one particular part
[15:40:07] <learath> so the rules really change
[15:40:14] <learath> like, for a fancy FPGA, it gets really tricky
[15:40:37] <learath> on the other hand, for a bog standard Atmega you don't need to worry nearly as much
[15:40:54] <eszett2> ye im handling bread and butter atmegas
[15:41:14] <eszett2> The tutorial say "A large electrolytic capacitor (typically 10 μF – 100 μF) no more than 2 in. away from the chip." very interesting, that is answering my question
[15:41:52] <learath> How clean is your input source?
[15:42:06] <eszett2> very good tutorial you posted !
[15:42:23] <eszett2> my input source is 5.5v USB from my pc
[15:42:36] <eszett2> is that rather clean?
[15:43:06] <learath> Should be
[15:44:42] <eszett2> for VBUS a 10µF is recommended/specified by Atmel. When i replace that by a 1µF (as it is in the Teensy2.0 circuit), can i take a ceramic cap or does it still need to be electrolytic?
[15:45:57] <eszett2> as 1µF is neither small nor big, its medium
[16:15:35] <rue_shop3> then whats 4.7
[16:17:56] <eszett2> hmm, medium?
[16:24:11] <eszett2> quote: "A large electrolytic capacitor (typically 10 μF – 100 μF) ...." and "A smaller cap (typ. 0.01 μF – 0.1 μF) ...", that means anything between 0.1µF and 10µF is medium?
[16:25:16] <learath> rue_shop3: he's confusing a specific app note with a rule
[16:26:51] <eszett2> ye
[16:27:57] <eszett2> I'm just concerned about at which size of a cap, the cap has to be electrolytic, and shouldn't be ceramic anymore
[16:31:26] <Casper> eszett2: size is all relative
[16:32:06] <Casper> you could say medium, but in that context, you want big and small
[16:40:39] <cehteh> eszett2: rather more than less capacitance in such a place
[16:41:33] <cehteh> if you want something small, solid and longlasting then look at a tantal, but be sure you are generous with the voltage spec
[16:42:25] <cehteh> often a wet electrolyte cap can be replaced by a half as big tantal, but really depends on the application
[16:42:46] <cehteh> (and 10µ Tantals are small too)
[16:43:17] <cehteh> btw:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAbOHFYRFGg
[16:44:11] <eszett2> cehteh: well i hope i can get away with ceramic 1µF
[16:44:31] <cehteh> why?
[16:45:09] <cehteh> note that ceramics have vastly different characteristics than electrolytes, they are not always a suitable replacement
[16:45:39] <eszett2> yay, a keynote about caps!
[16:46:06] <cehteh> and 1µ ceramic ... thats starting to get more expensive than a wet cap
[16:46:35] <rue_bed> and you have to ask youself
[16:46:46] <rue_bed> do I want this to last longer than 5 years
[16:46:59] <eszett2> well my crystal is 16Mhz and this tutorial im reading says ceramics are good up to 1Ghz, but i guess thats just one aspect out of many.. :-(
[16:47:10] <cehteh> tantals last inifinite, if you never ever overvoltage them
[16:47:36] <eszett2> oh really?
[16:47:44] <eszett2> thats an argument.
[16:47:46] <rue_bed> I'v been having resistors fail in my projects in under a year, just faulty
[16:48:04] <rue_bed> cehteh, ask mac classic owners
[16:48:12] <rue_bed> *BANG*
[16:48:20] <cehteh> never ever overvoltage is the key
[16:48:26] <rue_bed> *BANG*
[16:48:55] <cehteh> i meant not even a surge a nano second in its lifetime
[16:51:09] <cehteh> eszett2: most importantly ceramic (and to a lesser extend tantals) have a much lower ESR, which is often desired, but can also lead to undampened oscillations and crap in switched applications, the inductance of your traces could be already enough to form an oscillator sometimes
[16:51:41] <cehteh> thats also a reason to keep traces short when coming from ceramics
[16:52:17] <learath> cehteh: on the other hand, he's running a stock atmega..
[16:52:28] <learath> short of powering it off a van-de-graff generator he's probably fine :P
[16:52:37] <cehteh> lol yes
[16:52:39] <cehteh> and on usb
[16:52:43] <eszett2> Interesting. And do the smaller caps wear slower than the bigger one? So would it make sense to replace the bigger ceramics by tantals, and leave the smaller ones?
[16:53:01] <cehteh> but if the datasheet say 10µ electrolyte then it posisbly says that because of some reason
[16:53:16] <cehteh> eszett2: nope bigger ones wear slower
[16:53:20] <eszett2> hm, cant remeember the datasheet mentioning the type at all, just the value
[16:53:28] <eszett2> cehteh: Ah ok
[16:54:06] <cehteh> higher voltage rating lowers the ESR, improves temperature stability
[16:54:15] <cehteh> (biggier case)
[16:54:39] <learath> also, SMD ceramics lie
[16:54:46] <cehteh> when you have 5V USB you do not want to use 6V tantals for sure :)
[16:55:08] <cehteh> learath: no they dont, see the talk i linked above
[16:55:41] <learath> cehteh: hah :) seen that
[16:55:47] <cehteh> the value on them has some tolerance and its usually on the lower side, plus temperature and aging drift which reduces capacitance too
[16:55:56] <learath> cehteh: to the entry level tech, ceramics lie
[16:56:41] <cehteh> ceramics are cool because small .. but they are not as stable as sometimes one would expect
[16:57:02] <cehteh> eszett2: why dont you want a wet cap?
[16:57:29] <cehteh> on normal temperatures, aging isnt much of a problem
[16:58:14] <eszett2> cehteh: electrolytics well, i have to check prices and packages, but generally speaking yea why not
[16:58:16] <cehteh> i mean any normal household appliance, TV, Hifi whatever last years with them
[16:58:37] <cehteh> they are cheap and reliable when you use them within their bounds
[16:58:48] <cehteh> cheaper than big capacitance ceramics
[17:00:22] <cehteh> i mean you can get 10µ Ceramics ..
http://de.farnell.com/avx/m49470r01106kcj/cap-mlcc-x7r-10uf-200v-smd/dp/1782131
[17:00:57] <cehteh> .. and yes, the price is for *one* piece
[17:01:24] <learath> cehteh: holycrapomgwtfbbq
[17:01:39] <eszett2> currently im using these
https://www.conrad.de/de/keramik-kondensator-smd-1206-1-f-25-v-25-yageo-cc1206kkx7r8bb105-1-st-445475.html?insert=62
[17:01:43] <learath> cehteh: that ... looks like an idiot wired .. a dozen? caps
[17:01:44] <cehteh> they got cheaper meanwhile .. a year ago they where over $1000
[17:02:16] <learath> cehteh: what on earth would you use that for?
[17:02:26] <cehteh> space/mil rated
[17:02:35] <learath> ahhhhhhhhh
[17:02:38] <learath> yeah.
[17:02:45] <cehteh> ultra low ESR
[17:02:46] <learath> electrolitics in space are... problematic
[17:04:47] <cehteh> eszett2: looks ok, but i am not that much an expert
[17:05:39] <cehteh> i wonder why that one is that cheap, maybe look closer at the datasheet
[17:06:27] <eszett2> cehteh: ich bin extrem pfennigfuchsig, mehr als paar cent darfs nicht kosten =)
[17:06:41] <cehteh> but it must work
[17:07:24] <eszett2> ye.. I'm looking for some cheap tantals as future improvement of my board
[17:07:36] <cehteh> ah 25% tolerance
[17:07:47] <cehteh> that means they are 800nF at best :D
[17:07:59] <cehteh> tantals are somewhat expensive
[17:09:05] <cehteh> whats the expected lifetime and operating conditions of your board?
[17:09:22] <cehteh> room temperature and less than 10 years?
[17:09:32] <cehteh> then you are really fine with the wet electrolytes
[17:10:14] <eszett2> well, to be honest, my keyboards are kind of luxury which the owner quickly looses interest into, so maybe 5 years max
[17:11:05] <cehteh> and dont order at conrad, thats expensive
[17:11:13] <cehteh> reichelt is already much cheaper
[17:13:13] <cehteh> http://www.reichelt.de/Electrolyte-Capacitors-SMD-Low-ESR-105-C/SMD-ELKO-10-16/3/index.html?&ACTION=3&LA=2&ARTICLE=31906&GROUPID=4001&artnr=SMD+ELKO+10%2F16
[17:17:01] <eszett2> i ordered at conrad for the prototype, larger numbers i'm used to order from mouser
[17:17:08] <eszett2> or digikey.. respectively
[17:17:22] <rue_bed> *BANG*
[17:17:25] <eszett2> Ja, Conrad is ne Apotheke, Reichelt is ne halbe Apotheke =)
[17:18:32] <eszett2> Der Elko ist viiieeel zu gross, soviel platz hab ich kaum!
[17:20:12] <cehteh> :D
[17:20:18] <cehteh> then tantal
[17:21:23] <eszett2> das sind diese erbsenförmigen dinger, ich hoffe da gibts auch welche die in der höhe nicht mehr als 3mm haben
[17:22:01] <eszett2> I'm designing the case superslim, from pcb to bottom plate just 3-4mm max. room to put components
[17:22:28] <eszett2> 1206 oder 0603 kommt mir da sehr gelegen
[17:22:53] <cehteh> gibts in rmd
[17:22:56] <cehteh> smd
[17:23:17] <cehteh> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/34/Tantal-P1100196c.jpg/800px-Tantal-P1100196c.jpg
[17:24:14] <cehteh> uind wie gesagt bei tantal musst du unbedingt überspannung, ja sogar jede spannung die über die normale spannung rausgeht verhindern
[17:24:34] <eszett2> ah ja sehr schön
[17:24:34] <cehteh> großzugig z dioden und clams
[17:24:38] <cehteh> clamps
[17:25:27] <eszett2> eine zener am usb port reicht ja dann
[17:25:50] <cehteh> auch an den datenleitungen
[17:26:38] <cehteh> und bei der stromversorgung bruauchts ne sicherung sonst raucht nur die zener ab und nimmt den rest mit in die jagdgründe
[17:27:42] <eszett2> ach du je, das wird ein aufwand, aber ok behalte ich mal im hinterkopf :-)
[17:28:00] <cehteh> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowbar_(circuit)
[17:28:29] <cehteh> geht auch nur mit ner zener/surge protection diode aber die sicherung da ist pllicht
[17:29:30] <cehteh> oder wenn du sehr wenig strom ziehst kannste die vllt durch nen wiederstand ersetzen
[17:32:46] <eszett2> jo, lese gerade..
[17:35:51] <cehteh> D+/D- legste einfach über 3v6 zener gegen GND sollte reichen
[17:45:42] <eszett2> cehteh: danke erstmal, muss aber jetzt in die heia! laters..
[17:45:51] <cehteh> n8
[22:27:12] <xa0z> http://oi66.tinypic.com/n399tw.jpg
[22:27:13] <xa0z> http://oi68.tinypic.com/156r9eb.jpg
[22:27:23] <xa0z> I didn't get a pic after soldering on the wires and adding the epoxy because I made a little mess with the epoxy, so I wanted to get the cover put back on and clean it up with rubbing alcohol.
[22:29:29] <Tom_itx> where did the case come from?
[22:30:24] <xa0z> Some crappy chinese wireless pc 2 tv adapter.
[22:30:39] <Tom_itx> so not a custom case
[22:30:50] <xa0z> You connect it to the PC and it connects to some little roku looking box connected to a TV to stream from PC to tv.
[22:30:51] <xa0z> Nah
[22:31:04] <xa0z> Was the only case I had that was wide enough.
[22:31:30] <Tom_itx> http://www.hammondmfg.com/1551USB.htm
[22:31:38] <Tom_itx> i've used that company in the past for cases
[22:31:57] <learath> That's pretty sweet
[22:32:04] <Casper> only case manufacturer available around here
[22:32:09] <xa0z> ooh nice
[22:32:11] <Casper> in store that's it
[22:32:25] <Casper> but local store sell them way too overpriced
[22:32:43] <Tom_itx> digikey etc have their line
[22:32:51] <learath> Casper: please tell them to buy a new web site
[22:32:55] <learath> not from geocities...
[22:32:57] <xa0z> digikey only had one and it was too tall.
[22:33:04] <xa0z> I need thin enclosures.
[22:34:04] <Tom_itx> http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?keywords=hammond%201551usb
[22:34:07] <Casper> learath: ?
[22:34:13] <learath> oh
[22:34:24] <learath> Casper: sorry, thought you'd posted www.hammondmfg.com
[22:34:33] <Tom_itx> i did
[22:34:40] <learath> my bad.
[22:34:50] <learath> it's *still* terrible
[22:35:12] <xa0z> polycase.com has some, and makes custom ones.
[22:35:22] <Tom_itx> i've sampled them as well
[22:35:34] <Tom_itx> for my needs i liked hammond better
[22:35:40] * Casper will goes dig a bit outside... wish me luck
[22:35:59] <xa0z> It turned out fairly well actually.
[22:38:07] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/Boxes/USBTinyMkII_2_USB2.jpg
[22:38:12] <Tom_itx> that was one of theirs i used
[22:38:52] <xa0z> That's not bad.
[22:38:53] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTinyMkII_Blue.jpg
[22:39:01] <Tom_itx> the leds show up nice thru the translucent box
[22:42:07] <xa0z> oh yea, that's kinda neat too.
[22:55:48] <xa0z> dean!
[22:58:32] <abcminiuser> Ahoyhoy!
[23:01:17] <Tom_itx> hey abcminiuser what's new?
[23:01:45] <abcminiuser> Not too much, got back from my honeymoon last week
[23:01:54] <abcminiuser> Went to Copenhagen, Stockholm and Trondheim
[23:01:58] <Tom_itx> ahh yeah, congrats
[23:02:06] <abcminiuser> (and yes, visited Atmel/Microchip again :P)
[23:02:14] <Tom_itx> all domesticated now ehh?
[23:17:44] <abcminiuser> Yeah pretty much, still looking to buy a house someday
[23:17:49] <abcminiuser> Too damn expensive
[23:18:44] <Tom_itx> still livin in Au?
[23:41:35] <abcminiuser> Yeah, house prices here are bananas
[23:41:46] <abcminiuser> Not the good kind, the tough inedible kind
