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[01:09:02] <rue_house> why are you trying to use oop on a 8 bit sub 20mips microcontroller with less than 1k of ram?
[01:09:26] <Casper> rue_house: !
[01:09:35] <Casper> The know all guy!
[01:10:00] <rue_house> no, I dont know how to port my mind over to a non organic platform
[01:10:29] <Casper> do you know how to figure out the size of the header on top of a window? and do you know how to install a window in poured foundation? :D
[01:11:21] <rue_house> I hate cutting concrete
[01:12:00] <rue_house> you use a steel header if its cinder block, I dont know about completely poured, I dont think you need a header
[01:12:29] <Casper> does need... there is a 2x10 actually that support the weight of the house
[01:13:12] <Casper> 10" thick foundation, 2x10 "vertical", 2x10 for the floor on top of it, floor, wall, roof..
[01:13:41] <rue_house> oh, your not leaving any of the poured foundation over it?
[01:13:55] <Casper> there is none actually on top of it
[01:14:04] <Casper> but the window is small, way too small
[01:14:19] <Casper> http://i.imgur.com/i2QX9uI.jpg <=== not the same, but same size
[01:17:59] <rue_house> if the area over the windows was holding up joists, I dont know
[01:19:25] <Casper> thing is, I'ld like to possibly raise the window a bit, so the 2x10 need to be cut... and wider opening...
[07:05:33] <_ami_> does avrdude really read the device signature whenever we do avrdude -c usabsp -p atmega16a?
[07:06:14] <LeoNerd> Yup. I wants to check that the device you claimed was connected is indeed the one that is
[07:07:17] <_ami_> LeoNerd: how does it check? where is device signature written on avr?
[07:07:36] <LeoNerd> In the signature row
[07:07:48] <LeoNerd> There's programming instructions to read it, on both ISP and HVxP
[07:11:08] <_ami_> LeoNerd: is it possible to read device signature in application program?
[07:11:13] <LeoNerd> Not usually
[07:11:28] <LeoNerd> Surely the application program knows what kind of chip it's running on, because it was compiled for that chip
[07:26:26] <Haohmaru> LeoNerd assuming it was flashed onto the same chip
[07:26:37] <Haohmaru> you know, nothing stops you to flash the wrong hex file
[07:26:38] <LeoNerd> Hrm?
[07:26:40] <LeoNerd> Well, sure
[07:26:45] <LeoNerd> This I know to be a fact :)
[07:27:03] <LeoNerd> Wasted half an hour of stupid poking on that particular mistake ;)
[07:28:17] <Haohmaru> _ami_ i think it's more correctly to say that avrdude tells the programmer to read the signature of the chip
[07:29:51] <Haohmaru> avrdude can actually act as a programmer when you use stuff like parallel port programming (like stk200) but with some of the fancy programmers, avrdude talks to the programmer via a protocol, like stk500, and the programmer talks to the chip
[07:29:52] <Haohmaru> afaik
[07:39:44] <_ami_> Haohmaru: which part of chip tells to programmer that my device signature is 0xXXYYZZ?
[07:40:11] <LeoNerd> The ISP or HVxP controller
[07:46:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> you can read the signature row from within software.
[07:46:52] <LeoNerd> Really?
[07:47:04] <LeoNerd> Oooh.. there might be an LPM sub-instruction for it
[07:47:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> just like you can read the fuse and lock bits from software.
[07:47:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> just can't change them.
[07:47:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup.
[07:47:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> lpm and the SIGRD and SPMEN bits.
[07:47:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> or something like that.
[07:47:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> it is in the datasheet
[07:48:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> under the self programming flash section.
[07:49:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> which is ultimately under the bootloader support section.
[07:51:38] <_ami_> Lambda_Aurigae: thanks i shall check that.
[07:52:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's a convoluted process to read them though.
[07:52:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> but anything involving LPM is.
[10:11:37] <balrog> are there any cheap AVR programmers that will do jtag with an xmega?
[10:12:55] <LeoNerd> Cheap programmers don't do JTAG, almost by definition :)
[10:14:01] <twnqx> isp and jtag are completely different beasts
[10:14:09] <twnqx> not every avr has jtag either
[10:14:57] <twnqx> and if yu have an ISP connector, it can't do jtag either
[10:15:57] <twnqx> that being said, there are cheap jtag mk 1 clones
[10:20:16] <_ami_> sizeof on PROGMEM string works?
[10:20:22] <LeoNerd> There's more to talking JTAG though than just having the hardware
[10:20:23] <_ami_> sizeof(progmemstr);
[10:20:39] <LeoNerd> The ISP and HVxP protocols are well-documented; dW and JTAG are not
[10:20:51] <LeoNerd> So even if you have JTAG-capable hardware, you wouldn't know what to say to the chip
[10:27:45] <Haohmaru> balrog why jtag? why not PDI?
[10:27:55] <balrog> Haohmaru: production device, has cap on reset line
[10:28:02] <balrog> could remove the cap I suppose?
[10:29:35] <balrog> Haohmaru: is it safe to do that? :p
[10:29:45] <Haohmaru> if PDI is okay then avrispmk2 clone can program xmegas
[10:39:45] <skz81> LeoNerd, I was about to link
http://www.ruemohr.org/docs/debugwire.html that I found, by the time, via HackADay... But I realize that's rue that wrote it !
[10:40:59] <LeoNerd> RikusW also investigated it. I'll be having a play with it at some point
[10:41:10] <LeoNerd> It's not *totally* undocumented, just not anything official from Atmel
[10:41:43] <LeoNerd> Oh; yah that's actually RikusW's notes there
[10:45:11] <twnqx> LeoNerd: avrdude speaks jtagmk1 just fine
[10:45:25] <twnqx> for programming,t hat is
[10:46:11] <LeoNerd> Ah interesting
[13:01:48] <carabia> happy 4th of july you crazy inbred Tom_itx
[13:01:58] <carabia> i was going to add hillbilly in there somewhere, oh well
[13:11:25] <liwakura> also happy 4th
[13:11:30] <liwakura> i made an neat collage:
https://w1r3.net/loops/july4/
[13:37:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm the hillbilly
[13:37:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> or redneck
[13:37:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> or something like that.
[13:38:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> I guess my family is hillbillies as they live in the hills of Tennessee still.
[13:38:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've moved to the midwest and live amongst the corn and bean fields so I'm just a redneck.
[13:41:31] <inkjetunito> good evening
[13:41:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> morning inkjetunito
[13:42:42] <inkjetunito> which symbol do you use for 0 V potential/rail in schematics? my parts library doesn't offer 0 V and using ground feels wrong somehow
[13:43:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> I use GND unless there's more than +V and GND
[13:43:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> if I have +V, -V then I use the horizontal line with vertical line coming up off the top of it...alternate GND.
[13:43:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> for normal GND I use the one that is like 3 horizontal lines getting smaller as they go down.
[13:44:24] <inkjetunito> ok
[13:44:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> I dunno if it is right or not but that's what I do.
[13:46:12] <inkjetunito> yeah, it seems to be quite common to do so
[13:46:56] <liwakura> i also do it that way
[13:47:26] <liwakura> sometimes its just a cross bar ending the line
[13:47:34] <liwakura> like, a cable that goes into a ground
[13:48:36] <inkjetunito> i'm not actually an electronics guy, so using the ground symbol feels just wrong, because in many cases the 0 V potential isn't even grounded
[13:49:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> ground is a reference point really.
[13:49:57] <inkjetunito> oh well. even the components call it ground, so maybe i'll just "ignore" it :)
[13:49:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> for radios and such, yeah, it gets tied to physical ground.
[13:50:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> and for mains power, neutral is at ground reference potential.
[13:51:49] <inkjetunito> not necessarily, but in a typical distribution network, yes :)
[13:52:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> correction, mostly.
[13:53:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> in residential installations in this country neutral is bonded to GND.
[13:58:25] <inkjetunito> avrlibc doesn't seem to define size_t
[14:01:46] <_ami_> inkjetunito: um... its defined in stddef.h?
[14:03:55] <carabia> hillbilly redneck is a double redundancy, yes?
[14:04:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> not really.
[14:04:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> often used interchangeably but call a redneck a hillbilly and he will shoot you.
[14:04:57] <_ami_> inkjetunito: just add <stddef.h>
[14:04:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> isn't stddef.h part of gcc rather than libc?
[14:05:29] <_ami_> ah, right
[14:05:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> standard C rather than C lib.
[14:06:38] <carabia> so what's the distinction then
[14:07:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> the C lib..or avr-libc is a set of libraries mostly written specifically for the avr platform.
[14:07:21] <carabia> not that. Rednecks and hillbillies...
[14:07:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> where as the standard C includes some definitions and such.
[14:07:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> oh.
[14:07:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> hillbillies tend to live in the hills.
[14:07:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> rednecks don't
[14:08:05] <carabia> But, they still both marry the good cousins of the good 'ole negroes?
[14:08:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeahhh,,,not.
[14:08:31] <carabia> Just maybe.
[14:08:55] <_ami_> Lambda_Aurigae: although size_t comes from one of several header files. stddef.h, stdlib.h, stdio.h and few more i think
[14:08:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> I do have a couple of cousins who married each other.
[14:09:12] <_ami_> Lambda_Aurigae: really?
[14:09:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup.
[14:09:20] <carabia> I'm not surprised at all
[14:09:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> they were second cousins.
[14:09:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> but, I don't have anything to do with that side of the family.
[14:09:54] <carabia> I'm not familiar with the family tree terms in english. What's a _second_ cousin?
[14:10:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> first cousins, have same grandparents.
[14:10:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> second cousins have one more separation.
[14:10:34] <carabia> Alrightey
[14:11:34] <inkjetunito> ok, so stddef.h it is
[14:12:01] <_ami_> Lambda_Aurigae: any good reference for avr bootloader topic?
[14:12:08] <carabia> Furthermore... I was going to add "inbred" to the hillbilly rednecks to make it a triple redundancy, but I guess it's only a double redundancy with either of the two latter
[14:12:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> _ami_, google
[14:12:44] <_ami_> Lambda_Aurigae: not much good info i found via google :/
[14:13:12] <carabia> _ami_, I am willing and able to provide you with information for some tikka masala.
[14:13:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> what do you want to know?
[14:13:32] <carabia> in exchange for, rather*
[14:13:33] <_ami_> Lambda_Aurigae: i need info related to writing my own custom bootloader.
[14:13:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> so, what kind of bootloader?
[14:14:03] <_ami_> carabia: go to some indian restaurant nearby to your place! :)
[14:14:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> usb, serial, i2c, spi,
[14:14:17] <_ami_> i would start with usb one first.
[14:14:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> guessing you know all about usb then?
[14:14:38] <_ami_> YEAH!! :D
[14:14:54] <carabia> What's this bootloader for?
[14:14:58] <carabia> some 8b avr?
[14:15:02] <carabia> good luck and have fun
[14:15:08] <_ami_> yah, 8 bit avr
[14:15:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> using v-usb or lufa?
[14:15:18] <_ami_> using v-usb
[14:15:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> and have you looked at the v-usb implementations for bootloaders?
[14:15:52] <_ami_> https://www.obdev.at/products/vusb/usbasploader.html
[14:16:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> https://www.obdev.at/products/vusb/prjprog.html
[14:16:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> lots of them.
[14:16:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> well, several anyhow.
[14:17:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> beyond that,
[14:17:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.engineersgarage.com/embedded/avr-microcontroller-projects/How-To-Write-a-Simple-Bootloader-For-AVR-In-C-language
[14:18:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.hackersworkbench.com/intro-to-bootloaders-for-avr
[14:19:54] <_ami_> http://www.mikrocontroller.net/articles/AVR_Bootloader_in_C_-_eine_einfache_Anleitung - i like this article more though.
[14:20:11] <_ami_> only confusion i have is on BootSZ1/2 values
[14:20:35] <_ami_> can u see the boot size configuration table.
[14:21:31] <_ami_> autotranslation in english actually kills the meaning of actual phrase.
[14:22:24] <_ami_> i understand bootsize = 1024 words = 1024 * 2 = 2Kb
[14:22:35] <_ami_> what does the meaning of page size here?
[14:22:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> bootsize is 1k words or 2k bytes
[14:23:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> AVRs with bootloader section have generally adjustable bootloader size.
[14:23:28] <_ami_> so in case of vusb, i need to use bootsize = 2k bytes because of vusb size.
[14:24:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> if the bootloader will fit in a 2K byte section, yes..
[14:28:32] <_ami_> For atmega16a, start of NRWW region is $1C00 - $1FFF
[14:29:11] <_ami_> in bytes, it would be 0x1C00 * 2 = 14336 == 0x3800
[14:30:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> 1024 words..
[14:30:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> 2048 bytes.
[14:31:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> page 249 of the datasheet.
[14:31:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> that's the maximum size of the bootloader section for the AVR
[14:31:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> for THAT AVR anyhow.
[14:34:14] <Tom_itx> easy in asm
[14:34:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup.
[14:34:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> the datasheet even has a bootloader in assembly in it.
[14:35:25] <CyL> So, I want to move from arduino to avr-gcc. Do the majority of arduino device use the same architecture?
[14:35:45] <CyL> I mean, for their processors...
[14:36:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> CyL, arduino, for a large part, ,uses var processors.
[14:36:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> err..uses various AVR processors
[14:36:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> keyboard went kerfwonky.
[14:36:36] <CyL> Lambda_Aurigae: I'm refering to their processor cores, not MCU (considering other auxiliary hardware)
[14:36:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> atmega328p is very common.
[14:37:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> there are AVR, ARM, and PIC arduinos now.
[14:37:21] <CyL> I know it, but for example, does the 32u4 uses a different core than the 328p? If I learn the architecture for one, will I need to learn another one for the other?
[14:37:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> and I even saw an x86 arduino.
[14:37:33] <CyL> I'm refering exclusively to the atmel ones
[14:37:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> the AVR has several cores...but they are all much the same...just some additions.
[14:38:03] <CyL> I'm already acwuinted with ARM-Cortex family of processors and their asm language
[14:38:11] <CyL> *acquinted
[14:38:33] <CyL> I was also wanting gain similar knowledge to atmel based arduinos...
[14:38:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> the actual processor core is, for the most part, identical across all AVR chips in the atmega and attiny range.
[14:38:50] <inkjetunito> the instruction of megas and tinys is very compact anyway
[14:38:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> as far as assembly commands.
[14:38:57] <inkjetunito> *instruction set
[14:39:19] <CyL> an analogy: in ARM world, if you learn the architecture of a given processor, you know it for any device that implements it. What changes is the availability of peripherals and memory mapping
[14:39:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> that is much the same in the AVR world for attiny and atmega series.
[14:41:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> atmega has a few more instructions than attiny
[14:41:11] <CyL> Lambda_Aurigae: Okay, so I would assume it is HCS08 (I got this info from an acient attiny13 I once bought to tinker with, but never used in fact)? Also, does atmel document this architecture on a separate document, or the device datasheet is pretty much the document to go?
[14:41:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> but other than that, if you can work with one you can work with any.
[14:42:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> umm..AVR is not HCS08..that's freescale/nxp processors isn't it?
[14:42:42] <CyL> HCS family of processors used to be motorola
[14:42:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> owned now by freescale/nxp
[14:43:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> for avr, read the datasheet....read the data sheet...read the datasheet....and the instruction set manual...
[14:43:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.atmel.com/images/Atmel-0856-AVR-Instruction-Set-Manual.pdf
[14:43:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> at least, if you are going to program in assembly.
[14:43:39] <CyL> Oh, so there is a different manual for the instruction set actually
[14:43:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> if you are going to stick with C, then read the avr-libc documentation.
[14:44:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> the datasheet has a list of instructions in it...but the instruction set summary goes into much more detail.
[14:44:18] <CyL> I've read it a lot, I resorted to calling avr-libc function directly from the arduino environment, that what lead me to this decision
[14:44:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> instructino set manual,,,rather
[14:44:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> ardweeny uses avr-libc and wraps your programs in their ardweeny libs.
[14:45:09] <CyL> Never heard of it
[14:45:16] <Tom_itx> and all sorts of other cobwebs
[14:45:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> ardweeny=arduino
[14:45:36] <CyL> I'm totally unaware of c++, that's why I'm shading away from it
[14:45:46] <Tom_itx> good call
[14:46:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> arduino stuff is C++..you can use simple C with it easily enough but it's C++ around your "sketch"
[14:46:44] <CyL> I pretty much wrap my c code in a cpp file, but for some things they're completely strange to each other, which turns my coding in a cpp puzzling pain
[14:47:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> I avoid C++ with avr just because I'm not a C++ fan and can do everything I need in C.
[14:47:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> there is a little overhad with C++ but not enough to worry about I wouldn't think...
[14:48:09] <CyL> Yeah I know, but I started with MCUs long ago (although I haven't been using them for ages). I hate Arduino editor, and although their default library is very convenient, it was getting to be a PITA to intermix my C code with my cplete lack of cpp knowledge
[14:48:35] <CyL> I'm not afraid of memory maps, special function registers, and magical asm instructions
[14:48:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> arduino wiring lib is horribly bloated.
[14:48:43] <CyL> Like I asume the usual arduino user would be
[14:48:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> and other arduino libs are not a whole lot better.
[14:50:15] <CyL> I just thing it is very coneviente to use them as a development platform, since there are so many expansion shields available
[14:50:24] <CyL> *convenient
[14:51:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> lot of people around here buy the cheapy chinese knockoff arduinos and use them without the arduino software.
[14:51:15] <CyL> Well, I've bought some myself
[14:51:33] <CyL> But I got at least an original leonardo
[14:51:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> I own nothing arduino here.
[14:52:13] <CyL> So, the usual way of programing them is using a bootloader, or the ICSP header?
[14:52:30] <CyL> I know I can use a bus pirate as a programmer
[14:52:36] <CyL> They're so handy
[14:52:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> depends on the person and project.
[14:53:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> I don't bother with bootloaders on avr usually myself
[14:53:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> though I have made up a couple for the fun of it,,,one used the enc28j60 to do bootloader over ethernet.
[14:53:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> mostly I use my old reliable stk200 programmer.
[14:54:09] <CyL> AVR ability to reprogram itself makes it very handy to "OTA" updates
[14:54:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> although, lately I have been using my Tom_itx programmer
[14:54:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> read the datasheet section on bootloaders...
[14:55:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> there is even a full bootloader sample in the datasheet for most, if not all, AVRs.
[14:56:13] <CyL> Yeah, I guess I saw someone mentioning that when I joined the channel
[14:56:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> me, actually.
[14:56:34] <CyL> Just a quick question, is it possible to reprogram the arduino bootloader if I ever need to?
[14:56:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> yes..you use ISP programmer or for those chips that have it, JTAG
[14:57:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> ICSP, by the way, is PIC.
[14:57:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> ISP is AVR
[14:57:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> effectively the same thing,,,but,,,
[14:57:55] <CyL> Well, I see ICSP being mentioneg as a general term for a protocol that uses the SPI port to reprogram a chip while in circuit, but will stick to the terms
[14:58:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> is kind of a holy war between AVR and PIC platforms.
[14:58:07] <CyL> I mean, the usual "atmel environment" ones
[14:58:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> In System Programming
[14:58:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> vs In Circuit System Programming
[14:58:32] <CyL> Honestly, I've done PICs mylsef, and their architecture is horrible
[14:58:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's a trademark thing.
[14:58:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> I like PIC32 myself.
[14:58:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> and pic has awesome peripherals.
[14:58:53] <CyL> No real stack, lots of bank switching
[14:59:01] <CyL> Well, I was talking about the 8-bits one
[14:59:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> if you program in C then you can pretty much ignore most of that thouh.
[14:59:15] <CyL> For 32 bits ARMs are the thing to go IMHO
[14:59:24] <CyL> and for 16 bits I do like MSP430 a lot
[14:59:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> I use some 8bit pic chips as usb-cdc bridges.
[15:00:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> pic32mx270f256b is an awesome chip in that it is dip package and has hardware usb, can execute code from flash or sram, and runs at 80ish mips.
[15:00:46] <LeoNerd> Doesn't one of the S's stand for "serial"?
[15:00:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> have yet to find an arm chip in dip that has hardware usb.
[15:01:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah...ICSP...In Circuit Serial Programming
[15:01:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> sorry.
[15:01:08] <CyL> Nice, I'm not afraid of soldering most SMD parts as well however, and prototyping SMD is a lot easir IMHO
[15:01:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> I teach electronics, robotics, and microcontrollers to kids in the 10 to 18 year age range.
[15:01:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's easier to have something I can breadboard.
[15:01:49] <LeoNerd> So get some SOIC-to-DIP adapters
[15:01:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> yes, I know, you can get adapter boards.
[15:02:07] <LeoNerd> Hell, if you ever want some post them to my house and I'll solder them up for you and post them back
[15:02:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> but, I have microchip and a few other manufacturers wrapped around my little finger and free samples rock.
[15:02:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> would have to actually buy the adapters.
[15:02:43] <CyL> Well, or make them as part of your instructions?
[15:03:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> microchip, maxim-ic.com, and allegromicro all support me in my little endeavor...I do it free in my spare time.
[15:03:18] <CyL> I mean, prototyping your own boards is pretty much a really valuable reasource on your electronics army knife
[15:03:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> yes, and the more advanced kids, if they come back a couple of years, get to make their own boards and such as that.
[15:03:57] <CyL> Lambda_Aurigae: Nice, congratulations to you! Thanks for you kindness as well.
[15:04:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> welcome.
[15:04:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> this summer I have 6 kids total.
[15:04:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> but, I live in the middle of no-flippin-where so them getting here can be problematic.
[15:04:46] <CyL> Lambda_Aurigae: and where is it, if you don't mind?
[15:04:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> middle of cornfields in iowa.
[15:05:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> hour north of des moines, iowa.
[15:07:05] <CyL> Lambda_Aurigae: You can't argue with a south american in respect to that :D
[15:07:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> I can, but why would I?
[15:08:00] <CyL> Lambda_Aurigae: I can asure you that obtaining parts is a *hell* in here
[15:08:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm sure.
[15:08:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've known people from central america who had email drops in the USA for such things.
[15:09:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> errr..
[15:09:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> mail drops.
[15:09:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> sheesh, it's being one of those days.
[15:45:20] <twnqx> so... who in here was the altium user i chatted recently with? :>
[15:47:54] <antto> who, who who who whoooo let the dooogs ooout
[16:19:26] <carabia> because this channel is for all things offtopic, I have a burning question on a matter that has bothered me greatly the last few days
[16:21:21] <carabia> So, some ragtops shoot around in france, and everyone's praying for the baguettes
[16:21:45] <carabia> another ragtop shoots around in the ole states, and everyone's literally praying for the faggots
[16:22:41] <carabia> and then a bomb goes off at a marketplace in baghdad, and none of the quasi-liberal idiots pray for the dead towelheads?
[16:22:52] <LeoNerd> Ah; they're not local ones
[16:23:04] <LeoNerd> People tend only to mourn their *own* country's dead, see
[16:23:11] <carabia> my point here being
[16:23:12] <LeoNerd> Foreigners? Nah; forget them
[16:23:51] <carabia> i would dare to argue the fact that most people showing this "empathy" were not related to france or the US
[16:25:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have a solution
[16:25:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> I don't pray.
[16:26:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm an atheist.
[16:27:00] <carabia> praying in this case was more of a symbolic statement than actual praying for a deity
[16:27:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> and I never cared much about any of the people killed in the various "terror" attacks.
[16:28:01] <carabia> agreed wholeheartedly on that front, though
[16:28:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> if the governments were really out to stop ISIL then they would have done it in one quick attack.
[16:28:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's all bullshit.
[16:28:56] <carabia> hey, you can get good oil outta them and not to meddle with the russians :)
[16:28:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> we have the ability to take them out.
[16:29:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> just like we had the ability to take down Bin Ladden any time we wanted and Saddam before him.
[16:29:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> during the first gulf war we knew where Saddam was at every minute of every day. We had people on his personal staff.
[16:29:58] <carabia> also, seeing LeoNerd reminds me that I am thoroughly disappointed in seeing the brexit-thing most likely dwindling away :(
[16:30:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> then the second gulf war, we lost him? not bloody likely.
[16:31:41] <carabia> and on the other hand I am amused seeing the liberals marching to the beat of brussels, deluded into thinking that being a European(tm) == the european union
[16:32:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> and why the fuck do they have to ruin otherwise ok movies with crap loud music?
[16:33:01] <carabia> such as?
[16:33:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> watching the Resident Evil movies.
[16:33:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> but, these days all kinds of movies end up with crap music, specially crap rap in a lot of the cop movies.
[16:34:50] <carabia> hey resident evils weren't half bad
[16:35:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> as I said, ok movies.
[16:35:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> but the music just overrides everything sometimes.
