Back
[00:23:34] <JoeLlama> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6ag1bIabg0
[00:46:40] <Thrashbarg> that's been around since the 90's :P
[00:48:10] <Casper> from the aol time...
[00:48:29] <Thrashbarg> yer
[00:56:12] <Casper> like bonsai.wav
[04:35:11] <TechChristoph__> Hello
[04:35:27] <TechChristoph__> How can i save a transistorsignal
[04:35:31] <TechChristoph__> ?
[04:35:37] <TechChristoph__> with eeprom ?
[05:14:37] <carabia> A what?
[07:14:41] <Tom_itx> digital storage scope
[07:16:44] <carabia> I hear it's very good for saving "transistorsignals"
[07:16:57] <carabia> They are way better than "diodesignals"
[10:16:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> TechChristoph__, what is a transistorsigna?
[10:21:42] <Tom_itx> you don't know!??!
[10:30:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> oh..wait...transistorsignal
[10:30:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> that makes it so much better...
[10:30:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> DUH
[10:30:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> TechChristoph__, are you looking to record digital or analog signals?
[10:30:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> what voltage and/or voltage range?
[10:52:59] <TechChristoph__> Lambda_Aurigae: yes i am looking to store digital values
[10:53:04] <TechChristoph__> and calculate with them
[10:53:13] <TechChristoph__> like 5 Volt is 1
[10:53:19] <TechChristoph__> and 0 Volts is 0
[10:53:23] <TechChristoph__> and so on
[10:54:48] <TechChristoph__> at the end how do you create a assembler when there is only 0 and 1 ?
[10:55:05] <TechChristoph__> i mean someone must create the definitions
[10:56:54] <TechChristoph__> if there is nothing
[10:57:00] <TechChristoph__> just the chip
[11:07:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> create an assembler?
[11:07:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> you read the data...in your case apparently a single i/o pin set to input.
[11:07:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> then you write that data somewhere.
[11:07:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> and repeat.
[11:08:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> do you have some kind of trigger for when you want to read the data or is it read regularly?
[11:08:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> if done regularly, you can use an onboard timer to cause the read to repeat at regular preset intervals.
[11:09:56] <TechChristoph__> Lambda_Aurigae: i have npn transistors connected to a switch
[11:10:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> TechChristoph__, without some more explanation of what you want to do it is going to be difficult to assist you.
[11:10:17] <TechChristoph__> if the switch is on it sends 5 Volts = 1
[11:10:30] <TechChristoph__> if the switch is off it sends 0 Volts = 0
[11:10:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> ok.
[11:10:41] <TechChristoph__> now i want to calculate with 1 and 0
[11:10:46] <TechChristoph__> but how ?
[11:10:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> is this a spdt switch?
[11:11:13] <TechChristoph__> a dip switch
[11:11:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> because in digital logic, just sending 5V or disconnecting from 5V is not enough..you need to connect to either 5V or to GND.
[11:11:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> dip switch means JACK.
[11:11:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> single throw or double throw?
[11:11:29] <TechChristoph__> yes
[11:11:36] <TechChristoph__> single throw
[11:11:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> then you will need a pulldown resistor between the output and GND to force the output to GND when the switch is off.
[11:12:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm guessing you know just about nothing about digital electronics and how it all works.
[11:12:23] <TechChristoph__> Lambda_Aurigae: so how can i convert the Volts into numbers
[11:12:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> at this point, You can't
[11:12:43] <TechChristoph__> ok...
[11:12:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> not until you learn about digital electronics
[11:12:46] <TechChristoph__> mhm
[11:12:57] <TechChristoph__> mhm
[11:12:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> digital logic gates
[11:13:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> and all that stuff.
[11:13:06] <TechChristoph__> ok
[11:13:11] <TechChristoph__> well then i have no chance
[11:13:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> a single switch equates to one bit.
[11:13:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> a byte is 8 bits...that can hold a number from 0 to 255
[11:13:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> then you can do other things with it.
[11:13:47] <TechChristoph__> that i know allready
[11:13:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> do you know how to convert between binary and hexidecimal and decimal?
[11:14:01] <TechChristoph__> yes
[11:14:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/logic/logic_1.html
[11:14:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.electronics-tutorials.com/basics/digital-basics.htm
[11:14:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.thelearningpoint.net/home/electrical-science-and-engineering/introduction-to-the-number-system--part-1
[11:16:03] <TechChristoph__> now i know how to convert binary to decimal and hexadecimal
[11:16:26] <TechChristoph__> now i know that 5 Volt is Logic 1 and 0 Volt is Logic 0
[11:16:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> you need to learn what logic gates are, how they interact.
[11:16:38] <TechChristoph__> mhm
[11:16:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> in standard TTL logic, 5V is considered logic 1 or HIGH, yes...but it can be as low as 3.3V and lower even in some circuits.
[11:17:17] <TechChristoph__> i can do 0 and 1 only
[11:17:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah, and?
[11:17:33] <TechChristoph__> but how about 1212 + 1212
[11:17:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> one bit can read 1 or 0
[11:17:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> two bits together can read 3,2,1,0
[11:17:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> or 0,1,2,3
[11:18:12] <TechChristoph__> now you lost me
[11:18:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> I thought you knew what binary is!
[11:18:32] <TechChristoph__> i know
[11:18:42] <TechChristoph__> but i can do only 0 and 1
[11:18:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> with EACH BIT
[11:18:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> say you have a number, 7
[11:18:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> convert that to binary
[11:19:01] <TechChristoph__> but how to calculate with gates ??
[11:19:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> 7 in decimal is 111 in binary...3 bits.
[11:19:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> 8 in decimal is 1000 in binary...4 bits.
[11:19:30] <TechChristoph__> i know
[11:19:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> each of those bits is a 1 or 0
[11:19:50] <TechChristoph__> and how to connect the gates ??
[11:19:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> you have to work with the bits in parallel.
[11:19:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> learn
[11:20:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> digital
[11:20:01] <TechChristoph__> ????????
[11:20:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> logic
[11:20:09] <TechChristoph__> ok then
[11:20:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> I could go through it from start to finish and teach you
[11:20:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> but,
[11:20:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> you can't afford to pay me to spend the time to do so.
[11:20:46] <TechChristoph__> i mean o read som articles
[11:20:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> I just posted 3 articles for you.
[11:21:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> tutorials even.
[11:21:19] <TechChristoph__> yes know i know the theory
[11:21:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> obviously you don't.
[11:21:38] <TechChristoph__> but how to connect the gates ??
[11:21:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> output of one gate to the input of another gate...or to the inputs of multiple gates.
[11:22:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> you want to add two numbers...you can represent those numbers in binary?
[11:22:41] <TechChristoph__> so 1 is 01 in binary
[11:22:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> yes.
[11:22:48] <TechChristoph__> and 2 is 10 in binary
[11:22:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> 2 is 10
[11:22:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> 3 is 11
[11:23:08] <TechChristoph__> so i want to add 01 and 10 which is 11
[11:23:15] <Tom_itx> 0110
[11:23:15] <TechChristoph__> right ?
[11:23:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> so, to count from 0 to 3 you need 2 bits...or two circuits that represent 0 or 1 on each circuit.
[11:23:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> correct.
[11:23:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adder_%28electronics%29
[11:23:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> you would use that circuit...a full adder...for each bit
[11:23:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> so, for 2 bits you would need 2 adders.
[11:24:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> for 8 bits you need 8 adders.
[11:24:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> there is a logic diagram on that page for a full adder.
[11:24:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> then you have to parallel them and cascade the Cout from the lower bit to the Cin of the next higher bit.
[11:26:10] <TechChristoph__> ok...
[11:26:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> you could do it all one bit at a time but that requires shift registers to hold the data while working on it.
[11:27:07] <TechChristoph__> ok i have to search a schematic
[11:27:13] <TechChristoph__> otherwise i get stuck
[11:27:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> again, you need to learn, in detail, how digital logic works...from simple gates like not, and, or, nor, nand, xor...to complex circuits like adders, shift registers, counters, flipflops, and such.
[11:27:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.play-hookey.com/digital/
[11:28:53] <TechChristoph__> ok thanks anyway
[11:29:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> if you intend to build your gates from scratch using transistors and resistors then
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/digital/#chpt-3
[11:30:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> chapter 3, logic gates.
[11:32:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> what you are asking to be taught in a few minutes is something most of us have learned over a span of years...usually by reading lots of stuff.
[11:34:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> and it also seems we have a language barrier,,which doesn't help any at all.
[11:45:08] <TechChristoph__> ok
[11:46:04] <TechChristoph__> ok thank you anyway
[11:46:08] <TechChristoph__> have nice sunday
[11:53:08] <eszett> what is he asking for?
[12:11:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> eszett, see PM.
[12:11:22] <eszett> I see it, yes..
[12:11:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> basically he wants to learn how to do digital logic circuits from the top down.
[12:11:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> rather than the bottom up.
[14:01:10] <carabia> Lambda_Aurigae: actually it was more like bottom-up, to be honest.
[14:02:30] <carabia> In contrast to a lot of people with no clue wanting to blink leds with a fucking absurd level of abstraction and stupidity.
[14:03:51] <cehteh> what you dont have a class Blinker and a class LED and using some pattern to generate a union of Blinker and Led?
[14:05:49] <carabia> Or - better yet, to connect the led to the internet.
[14:07:27] <Chillum> (micros() / 1000) % 2 ? HIGH : LOW
[14:07:53] <Chillum> err millis
[14:40:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> cehteh, actually, yes, I do have such somewhere here.
[14:40:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> never used it other than as an absurd example, but,,
[14:44:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> I should rebuild my toggle switch and push button avr programmer and put it online somewhere.
[14:47:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> in fact, it should be a HVPP unit!
[14:48:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> that way I can program it like we used to do with the old TI-980B and similar machines.
[14:48:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> just gotta get a bunch of flippy-switches
[14:55:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> yes, yes...the ultimate computerless avr programming bootstrap...just gotta find 15 toggles and 4 pushy buttons along with debounce caps and such...this should make a great hackaday entry!
[14:58:30] <cehteh> like i saied .. punch tape and some microswitches
[15:29:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> my way doesn't require a holepunch!
[15:49:11] <cehteh> Lambda_Aurigae: yes, the punch is the only thing which holds me back
[15:55:45] <eszett> Is there an easy way of doin a full check of the AVR via the ISP programmer?
[15:57:56] <Casper> define full check
[15:59:07] <eszett> well, that there are no solder bridges between pins for example, sparing me to check with my MM a continuity test..
[16:01:33] <cehteh> i could imagine some program doing such a test tried to the circruit where you have it
[16:01:49] <cehteh> but developing such, and doing it right would be quite some work
[16:02:03] <eszett> hmpf..
[16:02:04] <Tom_itx> led toggle on all ports / pins
[16:02:23] <eszett> Tom_itx yes some easy application code like this
[16:02:36] <Tom_itx> i had one for a mega128
[16:02:39] <cehteh> that is the "doing it right" part :D
[16:03:23] <cehteh> just simply toggle all outputs is easy, but prolly doesnt diagnose all possible faults
[16:04:47] <eszett> then ill rather take my multimeter... *sigh*
[16:06:20] <cehteh> reading a pin's value should reflect what its set too, one can do some clever testing
[16:06:56] <cehteh> but your external connected things need to be considered too
[16:07:46] <cehteh> and flashing one program for test before you flash the real program is a bit painful .. or maybe including the selftest at bootup, but that takes some valuable flash space
[16:09:18] <cehteh> pullup vs driven output, vs input, vs analog modes ... lots things to consider
[17:09:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> it would be entirely dependent on your circuit.
[17:15:15] <WormFood> well, depending on what is at the other end of the trace, it may or may not be difficult to test to make sure the connection is good, but testing for shorts between the pins, should be relatively easy to do, of course, depending on what they're connected to.