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[02:53:33] <inflex> Nice... after 8 years of being in an exposed environment shed, my reflow oven controller still actually functions
[03:22:18] <sabor> Duality: i always debounce using a timer overflow interrupt, there's no reason to stop the whole program just because the user decided to press a button :)
[06:21:08] <mohsen_> Hi
[06:21:36] <mohsen_> What motors has the ability to control the speed?
[06:21:49] <cehteh> motor?
[06:22:03] <liwakura> most of them if you pwm them
[06:22:07] <cehteh> its more about how you connect it .. driver etc
[06:22:19] <cehteh> do you need forward/backward?
[06:22:25] <cehteh> do you need high power?
[06:22:31] <mohsen_> Yes
[06:22:37] <cehteh> and exact speed (as in rpm)
[06:22:43] <mohsen_> By pwm you mean analog output?
[06:23:02] <cehteh> for high power i'd use brushless motors
[06:23:16] <cehteh> for simple cheap stuff some dc motor
[06:23:32] <cehteh> when you need to reverse it, simple pwm is not enough
[06:23:43] <cehteh> in either case you need some motor controller/driver
[06:24:46] <cehteh> using some RC brushless motor and ESC .. then drive it with normal servo signals might be simple
[06:25:32] <liwakura> oh, i did that
[06:25:47] <liwakura> driving an rc car with an arduino analogWrite
[06:25:58] <cehteh> yes can be done
[06:26:14] <cehteh> but if you need reversing then it needs more
[06:26:18] <liwakura> using distance sensors to increase the probability of not crashing into a wall
[06:26:35] <liwakura> the driver i had could also do reverse
[06:27:03] <liwakura> and it was some sort of standart
[06:27:33] <cehteh> just depends on the usecase
[06:27:46] <cehteh> some people do that with stepper motors too
[06:28:22] <cehteh> or robotics servos which can spin continously
[06:28:30] <mohsen_> So for a rotation that can be reversed and its speed can be controlled I need to have a driver and a brushless motor?
[06:28:33] <liwakura> stepper motors are still black magic to me
[06:28:36] <cehteh> signal gives only speed and direction
[06:29:14] <cehteh> mohsen_: bushless is not a must, but perhaps i'd recommend it. what are you trying to build?
[06:29:34] <cehteh> simple h-bringe works with DC motors too
[06:29:46] <WormFood> mohsen_, don't limit your thinking. There are LOTS of different ways to accomplish what you desire.
[06:29:57] <cehteh> for a toy car or line-following robot or whatever, thats sufficient
[06:32:11] <mohsen_> What about encoders? I heard they're also used for controlling the speed?
[06:32:27] <cehteh> sensing speed
[06:32:48] <cehteh> you may use them .. but first you need a motor which is controlable
[06:32:58] <WormFood> I think it's mostly used for determining where it's pointed, but could also be used for speed sense
[06:33:02] <cehteh> then you have a controll loop with a sensor which drives the motor speed
[06:33:27] <cehteh> what do you try to do!?
[06:33:51] <cehteh> brushless ESCs often have a governor mode which inlcudes sensing
[06:34:32] <cehteh> but if you need to get the position of the wheel or whatever exactly then you need some sensor
[06:35:03] <cehteh> it really much depends on what you want to do and how much you want to spend on it (time and money)
[06:37:37] <mohsen_> I see.
[06:37:41] <mohsen_> Thank you so much.
[06:38:03] <cehteh> .. and we still dont know what he tries to build :D
[06:38:35] <liwakura> like a customer
[06:42:11] <WormFood> What is funny, is he'll probably discard this information, and make a bad/wrong choice in his attempts to accomplish what he desires
[06:42:46] <cehteh> someone needs to keep the economy running, thanks :)
[06:43:26] <WormFood> What is funny, is someone who thinks they know 90% of what they need to know, to accomplish their goal, and in reality, they know about 10%.
[06:45:31] <liwakura> WormFood: thats software development, like 90% of the time
[06:45:41] <WormFood> nawww
[06:45:47] <WormFood> many guys here really know their shit.
[06:45:57] <liwakura> says someone whose company just shipped a broken product for 2 years and nobody fucking noticed
[06:46:07] <liwakura> <-
[06:47:03] <WormFood> Did someone make a mistake, and have the switch set to Evil?
[06:47:43] <liwakura> nobody tested the code that has like 4 seconds lag
[06:48:14] <liwakura> i noticed it because i reused the code elsewhere and it had the same problem
[06:48:19] <liwakura> i swear to god
[06:48:23] <WormFood> You know what I noticed liwakura...is that people are stupid all over, more than anywhere else.
[06:49:13] <WormFood> Another thing I noticed, is there is no limit to how stupid people can get.
[06:49:20] <liwakura> it really sucks
[06:49:22] <liwakura> and the worst thing
[06:49:31] <liwakura> i don't even know if im actually better
[06:49:43] <cehteh> shit happens
[06:49:50] <WormFood> Everyone makes mistakes
[06:50:21] * cehteh just noticed he forgotten to commit things .. so builds are broken
[06:50:26] <WormFood> I've found some bug or another, in every version of my bit rate calculator. Some are subtle and some are glaring (but none were critical)
[06:50:26] <cehteh> i am on a devel branch anyway
[06:50:31] <liwakura> cehteh: also happened to me
[06:50:43] <liwakura> yeah, but its somehow not cool
[06:50:45] <cehteh> but i now add a pre-commit hook which makes at least a compile test
[06:51:08] <cehteh> git stash; make; git stash apply
[06:51:11] <liwakura> cehteh: don't you compile everything before commiting?
[06:51:18] <cehteh> no not on devel
[06:51:31] <WormFood> wft?!?
[06:51:32] <cehteh> and not on that early stages of developement
[06:51:38] <WormFood> why would you commit untested code?
[06:51:46] <cehteh> hey no one else but me uses mµOS right?
[06:52:09] <WormFood> I can't use it.
[06:52:14] <WormFood> It's too bloated for me :P
[06:52:15] <liwakura> cehteh: i actually looked at your code to look how you implemented buffers and stuff
[06:52:22] <cehteh> WormFood: i am quite confident with git, branches are local, things can be fixed
[06:52:35] <liwakura> lol
[06:52:49] <cehteh> WormFood: this "never ever commit broken code" is right about centralized revision systems
[06:53:09] <cehteh> and generally i agree that it *should* compile, but with git i relax this a bit
[06:53:18] <cehteh> at least for feature and development branches
[06:53:19] <liwakura> understandable.
[06:53:40] <liwakura> btw, has someone ever needed the GPIOR registers?
[06:53:58] <cehteh> while i should make a rule master -> working code, devel -> compileable code
[06:54:11] <cehteh> not yet, but they have their purposes
[06:54:43] <cehteh> some instructions work on them which dont work on normal memory
[06:55:01] <liwakura> like the check if bit is set
[06:55:03] <WormFood> yeah, like some of the bit addressable modes
[06:55:06] <cehteh> (cbi, sbi, shifts ..)
[06:55:21] <cehteh> shifts? maybe not
[06:55:33] <WormFood> Do they have any special properties, or they just act like regular ram?
[06:55:33] <liwakura> could save much time in interrupts for frequently ran code
[06:55:40] <liwakura> like regular ram
[06:55:46] <cehteh> anyway when you need something with i/o register like properties and SRAM would be to slow
[06:55:53] <cehteh> yes
[06:55:58] <WormFood> The bit addressability should make them useful for special things.
[06:56:18] <liwakura> also, they always start with 0 after reset, so its like a .bss variable
[06:56:30] <cehteh> also useful when you need all ram or use a tiny w/o ram
[06:56:53] <liwakura> or when you need close to all memory for something
[06:56:58] <WormFood> I had one program that used ALL the ram as a buffer. I had to rewrite the subroutines to not use the stack.
[06:57:12] <liwakura> ^ i meant stuff like that
[06:57:27] <liwakura> pretty hardcode :D
[06:57:30] <liwakura> plain assembler i guess?
[06:57:39] <WormFood> yeah
[06:57:51] <liwakura> where did you store the return addresses? some register?
[06:58:32] <liwakura> lol
[06:58:49] <liwakura> just had a tiny voice in the back of my head, "store the return address in UBRR"!
[06:58:56] <liwakura> or even better, in SP
[06:59:09] <WormFood> yeah, that's what I did, IIRC
[06:59:24] <WormFood> I'd have to go back and look at the code again. That was probably 9-10 years ago
[07:05:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> Jartza used lots of unused registers for variable storage in his octapentaveega code.
[07:05:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> GPIOR and others for peripherals that weren't being used too.
[07:15:20] * WormFood gets the right to laugh at Lambda_Aurigae, when his stuff doesn't work as expected :P
[07:19:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> oh, I know all about that...sometimes those registers can't be used.
[07:19:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> but some can.
[07:19:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> you just have to watch carefully what you use.
[07:20:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> about your question yesterday WormFood, from that usbload project that uses the interrupt table for code...what file was that in?
[07:21:17] <WormFood> the linker file
[07:21:23] <WormFood> avr5.x I believe was the name
[07:23:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> found the file
[07:23:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> but not seeing anything that loads program into any odd area.
[07:24:23] <WormFood> There is a place, where it appears to be removing the vectors
[07:24:43] <WormFood> Also, compare it to an existing (unmodified) linker file.
[07:25:05] <WormFood> I experimented with it, and couldn't figure it out after an hour+, so I gave up
[07:25:24] <WormFood> I'm not seeing anything obvious, and I don't understand that file anyways.
[07:25:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah..it's a complex thing.
[07:25:57] <WormFood> It shouldn't be that complex
[07:26:35] <WormFood> actually, just move the last interrupt vector's code, right into the table, and not do a jump.
[07:26:44] <WormFood> That'd be most efficient.
[07:27:42] <mohsen_> What C compiler do you guys use for avrs?
[07:27:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> mohsen_, avr-gcc
[07:27:56] <liwakura> avr-gcc
[07:28:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's free, and it even works on windows if you use such.
[07:28:24] <mohsen_> Uh, I was killing to remember this
[07:28:32] <mohsen_> In fact I asked this question before here
[07:28:38] <liwakura> are there even alternatives?
[07:28:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> liwakura, yes...iar C
[07:28:47] <WormFood> best supported c compiler for the avr is avr-gcc
[07:28:50] <WormFood> there is iar c
[07:28:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> and other commercial ones.
[07:29:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> but those cost money.
[07:29:06] <WormFood> And even "basic compilers"
[07:29:06] <liwakura> commercial...
[07:30:00] <liwakura> hm
[07:30:02] <liwakura> https://w1r3.net/wLYaypwr.png
[07:30:29] <liwakura> i think RMS would also recommend avr-gcc
[07:31:14] <mohsen_> What about avr-libc?
[07:31:26] <WormFood> I've contributed to that.
[07:31:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> avr-libc is the cLib for AVR
[07:32:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> it is needed by avr-gcc
[07:32:10] <mohsen_> You it is used with the pre-installed c compilers on linux?
[07:32:14] <WormFood> no
[07:32:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> as is binutils-avr
[07:32:28] <mohsen_> you mean*
[07:32:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> you need gcc, libc, and binutils
[07:32:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> all 3
[07:32:34] <liwakura> oh. what decides the order of interrupts if multiple interrupt bits are set during a single instruction?
[07:32:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> for windows its all in one big package.
[07:32:53] <WormFood> libc shouldn't be required, but you'd be a fool not to use it.
[07:33:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> well, not required I suppose
[07:33:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> but without it you have to do a lot of things manually.
[07:33:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> and anybody starting out would be totally lost without it.
[07:33:29] <WormFood> Without it, you have to do *EVERYTHING* manually
[07:33:44] <WormFood> Even if you don't use their code, you'd want to use their headers
[07:33:59] <mohsen_> So none of these have anything to do with gcc?
[07:33:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> and by everything, that includes variable types as I recall..including int
[07:34:03] <WormFood> Also, their library routines are hand optimized asm code, so if you want to roll your own, then be my gues.
[07:34:06] <WormFood> guest*
[07:34:07] <mohsen_> I mean the command that's by default on linux
[07:34:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> avr-libc and binutils-avr have EVERYTHING to do with avr-gcc.
[07:34:33] <Jesper--> naw, ints and such are built into c afaik
[07:34:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> avr-gcc is just a compiler.
[07:34:46] <WormFood> Jesper--, you're totally wrong about that
[07:34:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> without binutils you can't link and create your final output.
[07:34:59] <WormFood> interrupts are platform specific things, and C stays away from that.
[07:35:22] <WormFood> There is nothing in any of the C specs, that state how interrupts should be handled.
[07:35:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> without avr-libc you won't have things like avr/io.h to define your chip specifications and stuff.
[07:35:39] <WormFood> Without avr-libc, you might as well use asm
[07:35:40] <Jesper--> int, not interupts
[07:35:46] <Jesper--> integers
[07:35:55] <WormFood> Then why didn't you say integers.
[07:35:57] <WormFood> ?
[07:36:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> WormFood, two conversations going on here.
[07:36:14] <WormFood> nope
[07:36:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> liwakura, asked about interrupts earlier.
[07:36:50] <Jesper--> Lambda_Aurigae, wrote: and by everything, that includes variable types as I recall..including int
[07:36:54] <Jesper--> and I replied to that
[07:36:57] <WormFood> anyways, if you're programming the avr in C, you want to use the avr-libc
[07:37:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> liwakura, interrupt priority is defined in the datasheet.
[07:37:14] <liwakura> i didn't saw anyone replying to my question
[07:37:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> liwakura, just getting to it.
[07:37:25] <mohsen_> Where can I find a documentation for avr-gcc?
[07:37:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> mohsen_, google.com
[07:37:32] <liwakura> ah okay
[07:37:42] <WormFood> Lambda_Aurigae, you beat me to it.
[07:37:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> WormFood, macro.
[07:38:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/
[07:38:34] <mohsen_> Hmmmm
[07:38:56] <liwakura> Lambda_Aurigae: thanks, its was was in the CPU Core section
[07:39:01] <mohsen_> Does the syntax differ much from regular desktop c programming?
[07:39:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> liwakura, as most questions asked in here,,,it's usually in the datasheet.
[07:39:11] <liwakura> lower vector num = higher priority
[07:39:17] <liwakura> yeah...
[07:39:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> mohsen_, C is C is C is C
[07:39:23] <WormFood> mohsen_, how much experience with computers do you have? Have you used C before?
[07:40:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> mohsen_, for avr programming you have hardware interfacing you have to learn..and there is avr-libc giving you lots of stuff that is avr specific.
[07:40:24] <mohsen_> WormFood: Well I used C and C like languages for 5-6 years
[07:40:55] <mohsen_> Lambda_Aurigae: So I guess my way is googling how to do X in avr programming ?
[07:40:57] <WormFood> I find that hard to believe, after you asked your previous question.
[07:41:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> programming in C for the mac, for the pc, for the avr, for the pic, for the 8052, all have the same syntax for the C code...they all have some specifics for their platforms though.
[07:41:13] <mohsen_> Lambda_Aurigae: To find the required library?
[07:41:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> C like languages?
[07:41:35] <WormFood> The C syntax is used a lot of different places, like Java for example.
[07:41:37] <WormFood> php
[07:41:45] <mohsen_> WormFood: You mean which compiler for c on avr?
[07:42:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> many modern languages are derived from C.
[07:42:04] <WormFood> any of them. The syntax is the same for all of them.
[07:42:13] <WormFood> C syntax is the same as C syntax.
[07:42:35] <WormFood> mac, pc, avr, linux, doesn't matter. My C programs I wrote in the 1980s, have the same syntax as today.
[07:42:39] <mohsen_> Lambda_Aurigae: Yeah I meant the derived ones.
[07:42:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> "The C Programming Language" by K&R is still my bible for programming in C
[07:43:00] <mohsen_> I guessed so
[07:43:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> I even have a copy signed by K.
[07:43:19] <Jesper--> about that, what would be the "bible" for ASM?
[07:43:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> Jesper--, the assembly guide for the processor.
[07:43:42] <Jesper--> ah
[07:43:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.atmel.com/images/atmel-0856-avr-instruction-set-manual.pdf
[07:44:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> that document tells you everything you need to know about every avr assembly instruction.
[07:44:17] <Jesper--> but what about if you wanted to learn ASM. I've been programming in C but would like to learn ASM
[07:44:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.avr-asm-tutorial.net/avr_en/beginner/
[07:44:37] <Jesper--> thanks
[07:44:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's old but still valid.
[07:44:52] <mohsen_> Today its hard to choose which one of these to use.
[07:44:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's where I learned assembly for the avr.
[07:44:57] <mohsen_> I mean the languages.
[07:45:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> mohsen_, no it's not...I use C
[07:45:13] <WormFood> Jesper--, get the AVR assembly instruction PDF, and take apart your C code (use avr-objdump), to see how the C compiler does it.
[07:45:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> and assembly for things that need very tight timing.
[07:45:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> on the pc, I use C,,,or if I need a quicky script I use bash.
[07:45:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> I don't need anything else.
[07:46:00] <WormFood> I tend to use bash a lot
[07:46:00] <liwakura> tbh i just change im C code until the asm code looks acceptable to me xD
[07:46:08] <WormFood> I use bash for shit I shouldn't use bash for
[07:46:13] <WormFood> I even wrote a daemon in bash
[07:46:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> hehe.
[07:46:20] <liwakura> ... i use PHP for stuff i should use C or bash for
[07:46:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> before bash I used csh a LOT.
[07:46:49] <WormFood> Some of you guys are thankful, that I can't program a GUI, or my avr baud (bit) rate calculator would have never been written in php
[07:46:51] <liwakura> does it makes sense to use posix sh instead of bash?
[07:46:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> and I'm basically making a csh for the avr with my interpreted C project.
[07:46:59] <mohsen_> Financial reasons caused them to build shits and call them new languages with new features, not all of them of course.
[07:47:03] <mohsen_> That's my oppinion.
[07:47:12] <mohsen_> I mean they did that for money
[07:47:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> liwakura, I was using csh and sh way before bash existed.
[07:47:26] <liwakura> how old are you?
[07:47:31] <WormFood> back when dinosaurs roamed the earth
[07:47:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> 48
[07:47:35] <liwakura> how old is bash?
[07:47:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> 1989
[07:47:55] <liwakura> i think im a bit afraid of getting older
[07:47:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> I was doing unix in the early 80s.
[07:48:02] <WormFood> Lambda_Aurigae, did you have your b-day this year yet?
[07:48:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> no.
[07:48:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> will be 49 this year in november.
[07:48:17] <WormFood> so, you'll be 49 this year
[07:48:26] <WormFood> I'll be 48 in November
[07:48:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> so I'm the old man?
[07:48:45] <liwakura> oh my god
[07:48:46] <liwakura> you both are like
[07:48:48] <liwakura> adults
[07:48:51] <WormFood> This is the Year of the Monkey...my year ;)
[07:48:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> ANCIENT!
[07:49:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> I think I'm a rat
[07:49:14] <WormFood> you're not
[07:49:21] <mohsen_> Lambda_Aurigae: Can I ask for the place you live?
[07:49:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> nope...sheep.
[07:49:23] <WormFood> last year was your year
[07:49:27] <WormFood> right, sheep
[07:49:33] <WormFood> 2008 was the year of the rat
[07:50:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> mohsen_, sol system, planet 3 counting outward from the primary(earth), usa, iowa, marshall county, city of union
[07:50:31] <WormFood> there is a city called "city of union"?
[07:50:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> the city is Union
[07:50:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> more like a town 6 miles away.
[07:50:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> but close enough.
[07:51:03] <mohsen_> you mean country?
[07:51:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> country is USA
[07:51:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> on the north american continent
[07:51:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> in the northern hemisphere
[07:51:19] <WormFood> right
[07:51:38] <mohsen_> No I mean by marshal county
[07:51:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> that's the county.
[07:51:58] <WormFood> right
[07:51:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> we have country/state/county/city
[07:52:13] <WormFood> China doesn't use that.
[07:52:22] <WormFood> I'm still a little confused by their naming here
[07:52:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> latitude 42.173310 , longitude -93.093568
[07:53:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> 42° 10' 23.916'' N 93° 5' 36.8448'' W
[07:53:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> give or take a couple meters.
[07:53:38] <liwakura> too lazy to look up
[07:53:41] * WormFood programs his ICBM with those coordinates
[07:53:42] <mohsen_> Lambda_Aurigae: Have you chosen to live there? or you just born there?
[07:53:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> I always choose where I live.
[07:54:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> but I was forced to live on this glub forsaken planet.
[07:54:08] <WormFood> So, that implies he wants to live there.
[07:54:22] <WormFood> I can't live in USA anymore.
[07:54:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> I moved to the middle of the iowa cornfields because my wife's family lives here.
[07:54:44] <WormFood> USA gives me an allergic reaction. Too much "freedom" for me.
[07:55:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> the people here are the friendliest that I've found so far and I've lived in many states and traveled to many countries over the years.
[07:55:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> WormFood, yeah..our freedom is mostly a shadow of what it should be...
[07:55:29] <WormFood> When my Chinese friends say how much they admire the USA, and their democracy, and want democracy to come to China, I tell them they're stupid, and they should learn what exactly a democracy is, and why it's bad.
[07:55:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> we don't have a democracy.
[07:55:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> never have.
[07:55:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> never will.
[07:55:43] <mohsen_> Lambda_Aurigae: How are poeple like there? I mean are they good enough so you'd like to communicate with them?
[07:55:49] <mohsen_> Oh
[07:55:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> I don't like communicating with humans in person of any kind.
[07:56:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> text interface is better.
[07:56:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm borderline autistic...humans annoy me.
[07:57:09] <mohsen_> I wonder.
[07:57:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> but I've learned to deal with them and apparently I do a good job of it because I keep getting pay raises and promotions at work due to it.
[07:57:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm a good actor.
[07:57:39] <mohsen_> Why do people always want things they've never owned.
[07:57:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> because
[07:57:49] <liwakura> Lambda_Aurigae: in what kind of way are people annoying to you?
[07:58:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> liwakura, they want to talk to me...and want me to talk to them.
[07:58:09] <liwakura> same here
[07:58:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> and are always touching each other,,and me...shaking hands and shit.
[07:58:37] <liwakura> im just very selective when it comes to other persons
[07:58:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> I almost got in trouble at work for putting my elbow into a coworker's chest rather forcefully because he walked up and put his hand on my shoulder.
[07:58:50] <liwakura> so its not in general
[07:59:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> that was several multiple years ago.
[07:59:25] <liwakura> hm.
[07:59:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've toned down my reactions since then.
[07:59:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> I don't like to be touched by anybody but my wife...and even then I can't handle being touched at all sometimes.
[08:00:07] <liwakura> i once slapped a classmate in the face because he woke me up for fun while i was sleeping in a break between lectures
[08:00:14] <liwakura> hm.
[08:00:35] <liwakura> i know that from the side of oversensitivity
[08:00:38] <mohsen_> People just don't realize that you're focusing on something important, and disturbe by putting they're hand on your shoulder or these kind of actions.
[08:01:04] <liwakura> nah, with asperger people its mostly some sort of sensitivity
[08:01:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> mohsen_, has nothing to do with focusing on something...everything to do with my constant state of mind...I rank high on the autistic spectrum..not quite asperger, not autistic really, but many of the traits.
[08:01:38] <liwakura> same with loud music or similar
[08:01:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> I hate with a passion thump thump jungle music,,and most loud music in general.
[08:02:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> I don't do crowds.
[08:02:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> I don't do concerts.
[08:02:29] <liwakura> Lambda_Aurigae: i opened a unsolicited query to you
[08:02:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> saw.
[08:04:32] <mohsen_> People do some things(mostly tradditionally) for nothing. for no reason.
[08:05:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> as for music,,,if there is no banjo, fiddle, or steel guitar then it's not music.
[08:05:32] <mohsen_> So, I don't do those things either, and probably, eveybody that realizes there is no reason in that action, doesn't do it.
[08:06:44] <mohsen_> Hmmmm
[08:07:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> I like older country music..mostly ballads.
[08:07:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> Johnny Horton, Marty Robbins, Johnny Cash, pre-1970 kinda stuff.
[08:09:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> modern country is just twang pop.
[08:09:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> at least, 98% of it is.
[08:09:28] <mohsen_> Lambda_Aurigae: Are people in other states or cities in usa just so friendly, like where you live?
[08:09:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> people in Iowa are very friendly overall.
[08:09:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> people in Vermont are stuck up assholes.
[08:09:55] <WormFood> I've been to Iowa once.
[08:09:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> and it varies between those.
[08:10:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> texas is high on the nice list...mostly because of all the mexicans being nice so we won't send them back home.
[08:11:50] <mohsen_> What about new york?
[08:12:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> new jerk?
[08:12:16] <mohsen_> lol
[08:12:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's meh...about halfway up the scale.
[08:12:37] <mohsen_> Oh. Have you lived there?
[08:12:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> visited.
[08:12:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> refuse to live in a big city.
[08:12:59] <WormFood> I've been to NYC a few times, and found people to be generally nice.
[08:13:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> if by new york you mean the city
[08:13:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> by new york state,,,it's full of idiots and assholes in general.
[08:13:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> WormFood, yeah..the city isn't so bad as I though..not nearly as bad as chicago.
[08:13:46] <mohsen_> As I've seen in movies, people in new your city are nice?
[08:13:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> or detroit!
[08:13:53] <mohsen_> york*
[08:14:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> by glub's festering testicles, detroit needs to be wiped clean.
[08:17:16] <WormFood> I never noticed my datasheet giving the eeprom page size before, but now I see it.
[08:17:18] <mohsen_> Lambda_Aurigae: Has it ever happened to you to go to a bigger city to buy something that can't be found in the city you live?
[08:17:35] <WormFood> Why? Just order online.
[08:17:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> mohsen_, yes, it has happened, but, as WormFood said, I just buy online.
[08:17:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> I don't go to the big city if I can help it.
[08:18:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> biggest I go to these days of my own volition is Des Moines.
[08:18:12] <mohsen_> and all the things can be bought online?
[08:18:32] <WormFood> I live in a city so big, I guarantee each and every one of you own some product that was either partly or entirely manufactured here.
[08:19:28] <mohsen_> WormFood: I think everything I use is built in china.
[08:19:45] <mohsen_> WormFood: Everything I look at right now.
[08:19:49] <Tom_itx> yeah, whether you know it or not...
[08:19:54] <WormFood> But, I came from the country. I grew up walking through cow pastures, to get to the school bus stop.
[08:20:30] <WormFood> I had no real problems adapting to the city, but I still prefer the less crowded suburbs, near the ocean.
[08:20:57] <WormFood> But, I tell you, it's fuckin' great, living walking distance to hua qiang bei (google it)
[08:21:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> with the internet and online purchases, I could avoid going to any city bigger than 10000 people for the rest of my life.
[08:21:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> but the wifey likes to go shopping and stuff and I go with her.
[08:21:34] <WormFood> well, at least until that infrastructure crumbles.
[08:21:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> WormFood, a year of food and 10000 gallon water tank help with that for a while.
[08:22:03] <WormFood> Do you grow your own weed too, or do you have to get that somewhere else?
[08:22:11] <mohsen_> Yeah its nice to live in such cities, but you know, not in most countries there are online stores for every product.
[08:22:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> lots of weeds grow around here.
[08:22:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> but, if you mean smokeable weed, I don't do that crap.
[08:22:30] <WormFood> I can get anything I want online.
[08:22:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> pretty much only thing I would need to go to the city for is groceries and medical.
[08:23:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> and my job currently.
[08:23:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> I can't even get pizza delivered where I live.
[08:23:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> grocery delivery would be cost prohibitive.
[08:24:04] <WormFood> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huaqiangbei <-- 15 minute walk away from me. Lambda_Aurigae you wouldn't like to live near a place like that?
[08:24:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> I did call pizza slut once and asked if they would charge to deliver to me...they wouldn't even consider it.
[08:24:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> WormFood, not within 20 miles of such a place!
[08:24:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> hehe
[08:25:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> the nearest town to me, Union, has a population of 397
[08:25:21] <WormFood> those are not good pictures on the wikipedia page
[08:25:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> that is 6 miles away.
[08:25:28] <mohsen_> But speaking of which, I love to live in america. I once migrate there.
[08:25:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> the nearest town with a grocery store and doctor is 12 miles away, Eldora, with a population of 2732
[08:26:08] <WormFood> http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=147 <-- you can get any electronic equipment you want there.
[08:26:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> the nearest town with a walmart is 25 miles, Marshalltown, population 27552
[08:26:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> WormFood, looks like Shenzen or however it's spelled.
[08:27:26] <WormFood> that is huaqiangbei
[08:27:30] <WormFood> which is in shenzhen
[08:27:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> aahh.
[08:27:46] <WormFood> *hen*hen
[08:27:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> I would love to visit there once...with a couple thousand to spend.
[08:27:53] <WormFood> +s+z
[08:28:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> lots of stuff to buy.
[08:28:16] <WormFood> indeed
[08:28:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> and cheap from what I've seen.
[08:28:28] <WormFood> and if you get off the main streets, there is cheaper stuff
[08:28:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> hehe.
[08:28:42] <WormFood> I got 5x 12 mhz xtals, for 3 rmb, or about 45 cents.
[08:28:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> I like the little side shops and such.
[08:29:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> I could take $2000 USD and come back with a container full!
[08:29:04] <WormFood> I just walk around, find an xtal shop, and ask them. about 10 cents each
[08:29:18] <WormFood> well, that depends on what you get.
[08:29:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> I know.
[08:29:25] <WormFood> or maybe you missed a zero or something.
[08:29:34] <WormFood> 20,000, and you can bring back a container full
[08:29:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> exaggeration slightly.
[08:30:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> years ago I worked for a company that had a local buyer over in that area buy $100000 worth of computer bits and pieces..filled a 50 foot containerr.
[08:30:28] <WormFood> for 20,000, you can bring back a container of *something*
[08:30:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> we sold all that for right at 1 million.
[08:30:51] <WormFood> Niiice.
[08:30:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> was a pretty good markup.
[08:30:58] <WormFood> I need to do something like that.
[08:31:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> and we were still the cheapest in town.
[08:31:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> that was back in,,,1994
[08:31:26] <WormFood> now it's totally different.
[08:31:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> we bought motherboards and video cards and memory and harddrives and all that..
[08:31:38] <mohsen_> Lambda_Aurigae: 2 years before I born.:)
[08:31:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> then bought cases locally.
[08:31:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> and I built a LOT of computers.
[08:32:09] <WormFood> I helped to sell 5000 computer cases
[08:32:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> another place I worked got a container from taiwan once a week.
[08:32:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> it was a pretty good size wholesaler.
[08:32:46] <WormFood> I got 50 cents per case. But, I had to split it with my friend, who is the one who had the customer. I found the cases.
[08:32:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> I was their only tech...I built computers for them.
[08:33:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> I started at $8 an hour and $10 for each computer I built.
[08:33:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> 2 years later I was up to $11 an hour and $15 for each computer.
[08:34:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> and I could assemble, load software, and test anywhere from 20 to 60 machines in a day.
[08:34:37] <mohsen_> Lambda_Aurigae: What os were they using? windows?
[08:34:49] <WormFood> It all depends on how well you have the process down
[08:34:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> windows 98 when I started...windows 2000 when I left.
[08:35:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> I had OEM imaging system which I built myself.
[08:35:19] <WormFood> So, you were probably fixing computers in the Windows 3.1 days too, right?
[08:35:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> fixing, building, yes.
[08:35:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> heck, I go back to the dos 3.3 days.
[08:35:44] <WormFood> Wasn't Windows 3.1 great?
[08:35:48] <mohsen_> So windows is also used in usa
[08:35:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> was/is
[08:35:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> mohsen_, unfortunately, yes
[08:36:05] <WormFood> Winblows comes from USA
[08:36:13] <WormFood> unfortunately
[08:36:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> WormFood, I currently have 2 VMs running windows...one of them is wfw3.11
[08:36:30] <WormFood> heh
[08:36:32] <mohsen_> WormFood: But I only see american use apple stuff in their movies
[08:36:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> mohsen_, that's because apple pays for product placement.
[08:36:46] <WormFood> mohsen_, that is because that is what you want to see
[08:36:58] <mohsen_> Oh
[08:36:58] <Jesper--> ah yes autoexec.bat and config.sys dark magic!
[08:37:07] <WormFood> There are plenty of non-apple computers in the movies.
[08:37:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> Jurassic Park used something they called unix...but,,
[08:37:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> Jesper--, yes...as was jumpers for interrupts.
[08:37:29] <mohsen_> What is mostly used?(in us)
[08:37:36] <WormFood> Winblows
[08:37:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> mohsen_, it's mostly winblows, but mac-in-crap is up and coming with the younger generatiion.
[08:38:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> and linux is out there fighting strong in the geek world.
[08:38:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> apple needs to put out an IOT toilet...call it the iCrap
[08:38:41] <mohsen_> Lambda_Aurigae: So they show the opposite in movies.
[08:38:49] <mohsen_> lol
[08:39:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> mohsen_, it is all about money...apple pays the movie producers to use their products in the movies.
[08:39:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's just advertising.
[08:39:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> like you see Tide commercials on the tv but I don't know anybody who uses Tide for washing their clothes.
[08:40:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> we use the cheapest crap laundry detergent we can find that doesn't turn our clothes orange...
[08:40:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> or we make our own.
[08:41:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> but, we make a lot of stuff ourselves,,,and can food.
[08:41:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> have 20 pounds of bacon curing in the fridge right now.
[08:41:35] <mohsen_> Lambda_Aurigae: You have to do so
[08:41:41] <mohsen_> Because of where you live.
[08:41:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> no.
[08:41:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> don't have to.
[08:41:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> we can drive to town and buy it.
[08:41:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> but sometimes it's better home made.
[08:41:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> specially bacon.
[08:42:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> and canned vegetables
[08:42:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> we even can meat.
[08:42:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> we go in with a neighbor and buy a whole beef once a year.
[08:42:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> cut it up, freeze some of it, can some of it, and have one hell of a barbeque with the rest.
[08:43:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have about 100kilos of beef in the freezer right now and maybe 20 quart jars of canned beef on the shelf.
[08:44:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> I also have a year supply of food for 4 people in storage in the basement...long term survival rations.
[08:44:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.bjs.com/augason-farms-emergency-food-storage-all-in-one-pail-30-days-1-person.product.217033.item.217034?cm_mmc=Google-_-PLA-_-SEM-_-Augason+Farms+Emergency+Food+Storage+All-In-One+Pail%2C+30+Days%2C+1+Perso&gclid=CL6ZtsO5tswCFQwxaQodNZIFIw
[08:44:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> this kind of stuff.
[08:46:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> replace 2 of the buckets a month. Sometimes we will keep one for camping food but usually they get given to a local homeless shelter for distribution to homeless people.
[08:47:56] <mohsen_> My brother lives in canada, he says homeless people can have homes and a normall life, they don't want to.
[08:48:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup.
[08:48:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> much of that is true.
[08:48:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> here they are always complaining about the unemployment rate
[08:48:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> but I see job openings everywhere.
[08:48:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> people can get jobs but don't want to work for minimum wage.
[08:48:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> or don't want to do manual labor.
[08:49:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> they want the cushy 20 dollar an hour office jobs or they refuse to work.
[08:49:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> I say, if there are any job openings then there is no unemployment.
[08:50:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm a technical person..have been for many years...but over the years I've done jobs that are not technical and for crap money.
[08:51:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> including waiting tables(good money but lots of hard work), digging ditches(literally), cleaning bathrooms, and working fast food.
[08:51:15] <mohsen_> Hmmmm
[08:51:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> as recent as 15 years ago I was cleaning bathrooms and digging up and repairing water leaks for a living
[08:52:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> and that was for room and board...I didn't get paid but I had a dry place to sleep and ate regularly.
[08:52:24] <Duality> sabor: my thought exactly ! :)
[08:53:07] <mohsen_> Life suckes
[08:53:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> but death doesn't put out at all.
[08:54:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> some years back I had a major life change, got divorced, had a major mental breakdown, and ended up doing maintenance at a campground to survive.
[08:54:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> cleaning bathrooms, digging ditches and such, doing construction work, etc.
[08:54:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> then I got my head back on and now I am a Xerox Lead Analyst.
[08:55:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> before that happened I was the IT manager for a major wholesale importer of christmas and other holiday decorations.
[08:56:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> ups and downs are all part of my life.
[08:56:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> I just enjoy the roller coaster ride.
[08:56:42] <mohsen_> Everybody's life.
[08:56:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> time to go screen in my front porch.
[08:57:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> another of those non-technical jobs that I get to do...
[08:57:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> but I get to use POWER TOOLS!
[08:58:20] <mohsen_> Yeah, have a good time.
[08:58:45] <Jesper--> remember that true craftsmanship is just one more power tool away!
[09:01:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> gotta convince my wife of that.
[09:01:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> every project we do around here I try to buy a new tool.
[09:01:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've gotten 5 this winter!
[09:02:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BxaP1wMEe_6adnZ0cVpNYnBrT2c
[09:03:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> kitchen island project...got a stapler and nailer for that one.
[09:03:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BxaP1wMEe_6aaWNmLU81SjlLQWM
[09:03:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> current deck project.
[09:03:50] <cehteh> thats how i got my workshop set up :D
[09:03:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> haven't gotten any new power tools for this one though.
[09:04:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BxaP1wMEe_6ab3ZHUnJyMEU0b28
[09:04:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> workshed recovering project...got new screw gun for that one!
[09:04:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> hehe
[09:05:00] <Jesper--> haha, I use the same tactic
[09:05:09] <Jesper--> got a new finecutter last project
[09:05:22] <Jesper--> didn't need it, but wife doesn't know that
[09:06:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> my wife is an Iowa farm girl...she uses tools too.
[09:06:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> so she has something of a clue.
[09:08:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> anyhoo,,,time to go look like I'm working.
[13:25:53] <carabia_> MBR partition tables are little endian, yes?
[13:33:59] <carabia_> Indeed it seems they are.
[13:36:35] <daey> im trying to get i2c running. but im having trouble with the addressing+ write/read bit
[13:36:40] <daey> http://i.imgur.com/L4nEMOl.png
[13:37:09] <daey> by my understanding, the first one should be a Read to 0x01 request. while the 2nd one should be a write to 0x01 request
[13:37:52] <daey> the LSB def. is recognized as a Read/Write flag, but it seems as if its also included into the address number
[13:38:39] <daey> also, is it normal that 9clock signals are being send + the high low toggle at the end?
[13:41:48] <Xark> "The address is 7 bits long, followed by the direction bit. Like all data bytes, the address is transferred with the most significant bit first."
[13:42:17] <daey> yeah. my initial idea was to TWIWrite((address<<1)|1) for a read
[13:42:21] <Xark> So effectively, add 0x80 to write.
[13:42:48] <daey> 0x80? or 0x01?
[13:43:00] <daey> either way a high would trigger a read
[13:44:20] <Xark> Okay, you are right, it is reversed The master is initially in master transmit mode by sending a start bit followed by the 7-bit address of the slave it wishes to communicate with, which is finally followed by a single bit representing whether it wishes to write(0) to or read(1) from the slave.
[13:45:07] <daey> if i send a 0x80 its a 'write to 0x80'. so if i wanted to read 0x80 i would send '0x81' but if i send a 0x81 i get a 'Read to 0x81' :P
[13:45:45] <daey> so the bit is interpreted as READ but it also increments the address...maybe its a bug in Saleae Logic? but im having a hard time believing that
[13:50:35] <Xark> Addresses are 0-7f (hex - with some reserved so effectively 112 possible)
[13:54:11] <lorenzo> daey: it's correct
[13:54:14] <lorenzo> write: 0x80
[13:54:15] <lorenzo> read: 0x81
[13:55:03] <lorenzo> for example, to write to a device on address 0x40, your i2c slave address would be (0x40<<1)
[13:55:16] <lorenzo> to read from a device on address 0x40, your i2c slave address would be (0x40<<1)+1
[13:58:36] <daey> perfect. but why is my logic analyzer telling me otherwise
[13:58:48] <daey> i cant believe theres a bug in there (a gigantic one)
[13:59:20] <daey> im trying to verify the results currently with via oscilloscope i2c decoding
[13:59:32] <lorenzo> daey: I use Saleae too and it's a "bug" yeah
[13:59:40] <lorenzo> it tells you what's actually being written on the bus
[13:59:45] <lorenzo> not the device you're talking to
[13:59:49] <daey> URG
[14:00:16] <daey> that would be ok...but it shouldnt try to translate it with the message 'Setup Read to [0x81] + NAK'
[14:00:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> sorry, the URG register is only implemented in the atmega44512c
[14:00:45] <lorenzo> lol
[14:00:53] <daey> :D
[14:01:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> which is a future product that has been canceled due to lack of interest.
[14:01:12] <lorenzo> daey: yeah they got the wording wrong
[14:02:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> yanno, I've been doing i2c with fleury's lib heavily modified for years and never had a problem..and never needed a logic analyzer.
[14:03:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> in fact, I still have the first i2c device I ever built.
[14:03:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> combined a pcf8574 with a 16x2 lcd module.
[14:04:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> and combined fleury's i2c and lcd libs to make an i2c interfaced ldc.
[14:04:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> saved me a few pins on the avr for other things.
[14:11:27] <lowin> Is it normal for microcontroller to be really hot?
[14:12:55] <cehteh> no
[14:13:22] <cehteh> its normal when you have some short
[14:14:04] <lowin> Well I'm trying to make a led blink. there is a 1k resistor in the way of led and micro but the micro itself is connected to vcc directly
[14:14:07] <lowin> is that wrong?
[14:15:12] <cehteh> what microcontroller? what voltage?
[14:15:22] <lowin> atmega32 5v
[14:15:50] <cehteh> did you connect all VCC and GND pins .. double checked that you dont have a short, measured VCC ... and and and
[14:16:03] <lorenzo> make sure it's not an internal short
[14:16:09] <cehteh> obligatory 100nF cap between vcc and gnd
[14:16:11] <lorenzo> like, connected one pin to another, made one high and the other low
[14:16:48] <cehteh> counted pins wrong .. reversed polarity .. there are plenty reasons
[14:17:07] <lowin> lorenzo, Well I don't think about that.. What I have is a very simple assembly program to turn a pin on and off.
[14:17:14] <lowin> only 1 gnd is connected tho
[14:17:23] <lowin> I'll connect the other and see how it goes
[14:17:23] <cehteh> few faster speed µC may get warm, but usually never hot
[14:18:04] <cehteh> measure the current it draws .. and check the voltage first
[14:18:52] <cehteh> is avr32 even 5V? never used it, all 32bitters i know are 3v3
[14:19:05] <lorenzo> atmega32 is 8-bit
[14:19:34] <lowin> Well the voltage is coming from a usb charger. So i'm sure it's good. I added a 1uc cap and am giving it another go
[14:20:25] <cehteh> oops .. thought he meant avr32 :)
[14:20:37] <cehteh> usb chargers have crappy voltage
[14:20:42] <cehteh> measure it
[14:20:59] <lowin> fine ..
[14:20:59] <cehteh> i am pretty sure its waaaaay to high and your chip is toast
[14:21:18] <cehteh> w/o load they produce lots of crap
[14:22:04] <cehteh> the 1µC is that a ceramic?
[14:22:23] <lowin> no actually electrolyte
[14:22:32] <lowin> or however that spells in english
[14:22:33] <cehteh> use a 100nF ceramic
[14:22:44] <cehteh> maybe in parallel
[14:22:45] <lowin> dont have one
[14:22:49] <cehteh> electrolytes are slow
[14:22:58] <cehteh> well first and foremost measure the voltage
[14:23:19] <lowin> am in the process of digging my multimeter as we speak
[14:23:39] <cehteh> i hope you have a spare chip :D ..
[14:23:59] <cehteh> well avrs are pretty robust
[14:24:08] <lowin> I have 3
[14:24:28] <cehteh> anyway always connect all grounds and all vccs
[14:24:29] <lowin> but the current one works with programmer. I dont think its dead
[14:24:42] <cehteh> maybe you are lucky
[14:25:35] <lowin> So, it's 5.45volts
[14:25:38] <lowin> is that too much?
[14:25:49] <cehteh> anyway .. normally 8bit avrs draw a few mA when operating .. you may guess that can never ever produce sufficient heat
[14:25:54] <twnqx> 10% over...
[14:26:19] <cehteh> the protection diodes trip at 5.5v
[14:26:21] <twnqx> survivable i'd say, but yes, should not get that hot
[14:26:26] <twnqx> what
[14:26:28] <twnqx> no
[14:26:31] <cehteh> not?
[14:26:32] <twnqx> no, they don't
[14:26:34] <cehteh> ok
[14:26:46] <twnqx> they trigger at vcc+0.5 or so, and put current to vcc
[14:27:03] <cehteh> there are not internal zeners on vcc?
[14:27:08] <twnqx> no
[14:27:10] <cehteh> ok
[14:27:13] <lowin> I have a 5.1v zener diode I can hook up but I don't think it would really matter
[14:27:28] <twnqx> well, look at "absolute maximum ratings"
[14:27:31] <twnqx> in the data sheet
[14:27:39] <twnqx> i am too lazy to do that for you
[14:27:40] <twnqx> :P
[14:27:44] <cehteh> maybe the power supply blows the zener :D ... but first check for shorts
[14:28:25] <lowin> There are like 3 components on the bread board. there is no way there is a short
[14:28:37] <cehteh> Maximum Operating Voltage ............................................ 6.0V .. 328p just had the datasheetopen
[14:28:55] <cehteh> well if anything would be right it would work
[14:29:03] <twnqx> any unterminated inputs?
[14:29:11] <cehteh> prolly all :)
[14:29:24] <twnqx> CMOS tends to produce internal shorts from that
[14:29:43] <twnqx> never leave digital inputs floating. ever.
[14:29:54] <cehteh> never seen that on AVR's .. dataheet says one should terminate all inputs
[14:29:55] <twnqx> just enable pullups on all unused ones
[14:30:00] <cehteh> yes
[14:30:14] <cehteh> but it shouldnt get hot
[14:31:13] <cehteh> i often dont terminate/pullup on breadboard/test circruits, never had problems with that
[14:31:23] <lowin> Well I really dont think it matters in prototyping to do that
[14:31:28] <twnqx> why not
[14:31:41] <cehteh> but fact is, something is wrong
[14:31:51] <twnqx> if the unterminated input shorts out intenral mosfets, its still a short
[14:32:49] <cehteh> datasheet only says it may draw more power, no big warning that it can be that massive
[14:32:54] <twnqx> lol
[14:32:57] <lowin> well well well.. I realized what I did wrong
[14:33:15] <cehteh> connected wong pin
[14:33:18] <lowin> connected 5v to gnd port -.-
[14:33:23] <twnqx> . . .
[14:33:26] <cehteh> told ya
[14:33:28] <twnqx> 20mA per io pin, eh
[14:33:29] <lowin> my stupid adhd counted the pins wrong
[14:33:34] <daey> hurray its working
[14:34:08] <lowin> Yeah it's working now. after 3 days and embarrassing myself on irc :(
[14:34:55] <lorenzo> twnqx: do you ground all unused I/Os when routing the pcb?
[14:35:00] <cehteh> twnqx: datasheet only says its recommended
[14:35:14] <lowin> oh well.. Thanks for help. atleast I learned something
[14:35:39] <twnqx> lorenzo: i prefer resistors
[14:35:50] <twnqx> and might just use the software pullups
[14:36:13] <twnqx> because, if you "just" ground them, and then turn it into an output with high by accident... short.
[14:37:20] <liwakura> nah
[14:37:49] <liwakura> i think the output resistors arent that low
[14:38:01] <twnqx> what output resistors?
[14:38:08] <daey> lowin: i meant my i2c :p
[14:38:12] <twnqx> there ar enot supposed to be ANY output resistors, unless you put them.
[14:38:13] <daey> but cg to you as well.
[14:38:47] <twnqx> any explicit ones, of course. there is resistance through the ponding wire, pin, and pcb trace
[14:38:51] <twnqx> bonding*
[14:38:53] <daey> and.. theres no embarresment if you learned something from it
[14:38:58] <liwakura> twnqx: the pullups when you have PORT and DDR bits on high
[14:39:07] <twnqx> ah, those
[14:39:20] <twnqx> i was referring to connecting to ground, and using the normal output to high by accident
[14:39:34] <twnqx> obviously, pullup to low is irrelevant, yes
[15:20:14] <carabia_> Someone in here had the saleae clone with 8 channels
[15:20:53] <carabia_> I just forgot how fast you could reliably probe with it... 2 / 4 MHz or something like that
[15:21:56] <cehteh> i do .. and its a bit uncertain
[15:22:27] <cehteh> the higher the frequnecy the more likely it fails, but once it starts it usually works
[15:22:53] <cehteh> 2mhz work almost always .. and i once even got it working on 24mhz
[16:14:08] <LeoNerd> cehteh: me? Mine will do 4, or maybe 8MHz, unlikely any faster
[16:14:46] <cehteh> LeoNerd: unlikely yes .. took me about 20 tries to get at 24mhz
[16:15:27] <cehteh> strangely some higher freq (12mhz? cant remember) somtimes works better than the next lower freq
[16:15:42] <cehteh> and i rarely need any faster than 20mhz
[16:15:46] <cehteh> and i rarely need any faster than 2mhz
[16:16:18] <LeoNerd> Odd artefact of DDS maybe?
[16:16:29] <cehteh> maybe
[16:16:43] <cehteh> could be as well some timing issue in the firmware
[16:32:44] <lorenzo> btw, I have some dev boards I don't use anymore, I can ship them for free to anyone in europe
[16:32:58] <lorenzo> anyone willing to take them? :D
[16:36:13] <cehteh> which ones?
[16:36:50] <lorenzo> Microchip Curiosity, the MSP430 launchpad, an 8051 programmer + demo board from Silabs
[16:37:19] <cehteh> msp439 sounds interesting, 8051, no thanks :D
[16:38:30] <cehteh> and pic .. never used them
[16:39:55] <cehteh> before you throw them away you can send me the MSP430, but anyone else can take them first, for me its only a potential porting target for mµOS
[16:40:01] <dsal> I've heard complaints about 8051 asm. I've not seen it, though. I guess I've been warned.
[16:40:08] <lorenzo> cehteh: sure
[16:40:29] <cehteh> mhm you need a jtag for the msp430?
[16:40:47] <dsal> I've got a couple of those ti launchpad things, but they seem to require Windows or something, so I've not messed with them.
[16:40:53] <dsal> I got a fancy one with various radios and stuff on it.
[16:40:58] <dsal> I managed to give one away at work.
[16:41:49] <lorenzo> cehteh: no it's on board
[16:42:27] <cehteh> i havent investigated the msp430 toolchain
[16:42:32] <cehteh> only linux here
[16:42:41] <dsal> I think it was more of the libraries for the cc2500 launchpad.
[16:43:11] <lorenzo> I programmed that in linux via mspdebug iirc
[16:43:21] <dsal> er, cc3200
[16:43:30] <cehteh> msp has some gcc/linux support
[16:43:45] <cehteh> and its a somewhat interesting platform
[16:43:55] <dsal> I think I've got one of those somewhere, too.
[17:19:23] * Xark thinks 8051 is a bit wacky, but not too uncomfortable. PIC is terrible. MSP430 is "clean" and 16-bit (reminds me of 68K), but not great CPI.
[17:20:11] <Xark> For low-power, low-sh performance MSP430 seems decent.
[17:20:22] <Xark> low-ish*
[17:22:24] <lorenzo> Xark: what's terrible about PIC?
[17:22:58] <Xark> lorenzo: Just primitive. One real accumulator register, banked memory etc. (not to mention no good free compiler).
[17:23:15] <Xark> No jump, just skip
[17:24:03] <Xark> limited HW stack for calls
[17:24:07] <lorenzo> yeah, the instruction set is primitive, but they're priced just right and can get the job done in most applications
[17:24:19] <lorenzo> e.g.
http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/PIC16F1455 .. it's 1.56$
[17:24:28] <Xark> Not saying they aren't useful. Just a crappy architecture. :)
[17:24:59] <Xark> There are dirt cheap tiny AVRs too (but PICs are generally good on cost).
[17:25:37] <Xark> For me no good free compiler, coupled with unpleasant asm makes me avoid them.
[17:26:07] <Xark> (but I have a few boards and a few PIC programmers etc.)
[17:26:15] <Xark> I do like PIC32 though, that is different. :)
[17:26:28] <lorenzo> pic32 is pure mips
[17:26:32] <Xark> (But MC are still butheads with the compiler)
[17:26:36] <lorenzo> totally different arch
[17:26:39] <lorenzo> but I've read that harmony is a mess
[17:27:09] <Xark> PIC32 is MIPS, but there are differences from traditional MIPS.
[18:27:52] <daey> i can receive TWI/i2c data by sending Start + SLA+R + TWCR=(1<<TWINT)|(1<<TWEN)
[18:28:32] <daey> but how do i control the ACK/NACK part of the last message? as i have to do it there. right now the uC automatically sets a NACK.
