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[02:58:54] <anton02> Lambda_Aurigae, is it true that DMA can't copy directly to an I/O port?
[02:59:05] <anton02> but to a buffer
[06:22:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> anton02, depends on the chip.
[06:22:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> I thought it could on the pic32.
[06:43:12] <anton02> Lambda_Aurigae, have you done it before?
[06:44:33] <mohsen_> Hi, what library do you suggest to parse json inside avr?
[06:45:26] <cehteh> the one which works
[06:46:00] <cehteh> was that you who asked some days ago?
[06:46:21] <mohsen_> Last time I posted a message here was about a month ago.
[06:46:43] <cehteh> ok some days ago someone came with a similar question
[06:47:11] <cehteh> any more complex structures are likely hard to parse because of memory constaints
[06:48:12] <anton02> well it seems it can be done here actually
https://vjordan.info/log/fpga/stm32-bare-metal-start-up-and-real-bit-banging-speed.html
[06:49:31] <mohsen_> Hmmm
[08:39:03] <carabia> *json inside avr*
[08:39:12] <carabia> I think that's your first issue there.
[08:39:45] <anton02> i think im gonna go with this
http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/LPC1769_68_67_66_65_64_63.pdf
[08:41:05] <carabia> It makes more sense that whatever creates your json(haha), will parse it and send it in a simpler format *to* your avr
[08:44:27] <skz81> carabia, it may be an AVR linked to an eth-serial interface, that parse purely external json from a website, who knows ;°)
[08:46:15] <twnqx> still totally the wrong CPU for that
[08:46:16] <carabia> avr ethernet. what a fucking mess
[08:46:27] <skz81> maybe a bit silly to do this, but if JSON message are known to be short and you want ultra low power device, can make sense...
[08:46:36] <twnqx> anton02: i have a few of those chips here, my next target as well
[08:46:52] <carabia> I highly doubt either is the case here, skz81
[08:48:08] <carabia> you could get like a cortex-m0 for that. Which doesn't require that much additional fuckery when you use provided tools
[08:48:31] <twnqx> reminds me
[08:48:37] <twnqx> where did i actually put my LPCs :S
[08:51:06] <carabia> people coming from a high-abstraction web scripting povs don't mix well with low level business. Can I parse JSON with my 8b minecraft processor that i created interpreting python through 16 bit serial encoding through my raspberry gpio?
[08:51:38] <carabia> Please?
[08:57:08] <twnqx> there are probably AVRs that can.
[08:57:20] <twnqx> even 8bit, not just the 32.
[08:58:12] <twnqx> generally, compact and short json should be doable. though i'd prefer to use binary if somehow possible.
[08:59:57] <anton02> could i turn this into a snes
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/LPC1768-LPC1768-Mini-DK-development-board-2-8-inch-16Bit-parallel-interface-display-module-Cortex-M3/774957278.html
[09:00:56] <twnqx> no, you won't have enough CPU power to emulate a SNES.
[09:01:12] <anton02> oh
[09:19:09] <skz81> WTF someone actually build up a CPU upon minecraft ????
[09:19:57] <anton02> an alu
[09:20:50] <skz81> yes you're right, that's crazy anyway
[09:21:38] <carabia> Wow. Someone actually built up a CPU with actual transistors ??????????????????
[09:21:42] <carabia> WTF?
[09:22:06] <carabia> can you build an alu with node js??
[09:22:07] <skz81> carabia, latters are ermmm... Useful
[09:23:39] <skz81> carabia, I know you can make out a calculator from legos too, but I would not even for fun
[09:23:41] <twnqx> carabia: there are full emulators for 6502 and ARM (transistor level) in the webbrowser
[09:23:46] <twnqx> so yes. yes, you can.
[09:25:27] <skz81> in short : it is not crazy that someone COULD, but that someone DID ^^ :p
[09:26:46] <carabia> in short: no-one cares
[09:32:32] <rue_house> how do monochome cube kits sell for $45?
[09:35:34] <WormFood> Actually, an ALU should be relatively simple.
[09:36:01] <rue_house> cmon, lets see an fpu implementation
[09:41:01] <jacekowski> someone did full x86 emulator for avr
[09:41:29] <jacekowski> actally, arm emulator on avr
[09:41:33] <jacekowski> http://hackaday.com/2012/03/28/building-the-worst-linux-pc-ever/
[09:41:56] <rue_house> theres too much junk to want to do a x86
[09:43:34] <liwakura> hm, x86 is too messy
[09:43:44] <rue_house> the built in processor extensions got WAY out of hand after the 486
[09:43:55] <liwakura> also, shittons of modes
[09:44:38] <jacekowski> sort of
[09:44:39] <rue_house> I wonder what the min x86 is for linux now
[09:44:45] <jacekowski> in reality only two modes are used now
[09:45:01] <jacekowski> protecteed mode and long mode
[09:46:36] <liwakura> jacekowski: they still start in real mode
[09:46:53] <rue_house> I really shouldnt keep browing after I buy soemthing
[09:47:11] <liwakura> rue_* you've got way too many links
[09:47:16] <twnqx> rue_house: 80486, iirc.
[09:47:32] <rue_house> links?
[09:47:44] <rue_house> I have redundant irc connections
[09:47:51] <rue_house> incase something happens to some of them
[09:49:10] <rue_house> ok, off to work!
[09:49:13] <rue_house> ..
[10:06:36] <liwakura> rue_house: have you ever thought of using a bouncer?
[10:07:01] <cehteh> redundant bouncers :)
[10:07:13] * liwakura slaps cehteh
[10:29:14] <eszett> encourage people for what?
[10:29:31] <lorenzo> this "bus pirate" thing is really handy
[10:29:42] <lorenzo> having an important discussion with a tmp007 sensor through it :D
[10:31:01] <twnqx> eszett: achieving what they want to achieve
[10:31:16] <eszett> twnqx: pretty vague goal..
[10:31:42] <twnqx> yes, but people come here with a probelm, or to discuss idea
[10:31:49] <eszett> hm ok
[10:32:14] <twnqx> here, one for you in particular (german):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0qGERVcC9E
[10:32:40] <twnqx> everything's possible :)
[10:32:51] <eszett> a bus pirate is about 30$, which is expensive compared to a ISP programmer. i would buy one, but i hesitate. because my last ISP programmer died in black smoke, so what, only 5€.. but i dont want to see 30$ in black smoke
[10:33:22] <twnqx> i recently found i have two bus pirates
[10:33:27] <twnqx> wanna buy one cheaper? :P
[10:33:58] <eszett> hm.. :-) no thanks
[10:34:12] <eszett> well. tell me price
[10:34:30] <twnqx> 12€ w/ shipping ina padded envelope
[10:34:50] <twnqx> i have no use for two.
[10:35:05] <eszett> which version is it?
[10:35:44] <WormFood> B=4 ; until avrdude -B ${B} -p atmega88 -P usb -c usbasp -U flash:w:mystuff.elf ;do echo trying avrdide with -B $((++B)) ; done <-- This can come in handy. ;)
[10:36:33] <twnqx> one is a 3.5c, the othere a clone from sandboxelectronics.com in a plastic case
[10:37:07] <WormFood> I should get a cheap chinese clone. I just haven't looked hard enough.
[10:37:16] <eszett> twnqx: ok, query
[10:37:20] <twnqx> both have the old 10pin interface
[10:40:07] <WormFood> I saw one avr schematics, without any caps on their xtal. I've seen no technical docs, that says you can do that. Was that an error, or will it actually run without the caps?
[10:46:59] <WormFood> now, I'm confused, as to how my software loaded into the avr, would affect the programming speed of it. If I run my clock really slow, just in software. Just by changing the clock divider to 256, I can no longer program it at normal speed, and have to increase my -B setting in avrdude.
[10:47:34] <WormFood> I thought when you reset an avr, and took control over it, to program it, it's reset all of it's registers, and everything to the default settings, but apparently not. Am I missing something here?
[10:51:06] <twnqx> WormFood: only if you changed fuses
[10:51:22] <twnqx> given it's held in reset while programming, what you describe should not happen
[10:52:54] <WormFood> Exactly what I thought. You can try it for yourself.
[10:54:11] <WormFood> the /8 fuse is set, and using the internal clock, so should be running at 1 mhz. CLKPR=(1<<CLKPCE); CLKPR=(1<<CLKPS3); // divide by 256. Should give an appx 31 Khz clock
[10:56:01] <WormFood> Yep. I just tested it again, using the command line I gave before.
[10:58:36] <WormFood> -b 32 before it'd work
[10:59:19] <WormFood> I should generate the minimum working code to produce that bug, and share it.
[12:18:54] <cehteh> sometimes simple things are so amazing ... my documentation system can extract FIXME, TODO etc from code comments .. having a make fixme: target printing that to stderr lets one jump to the source directy from the editor :)
[12:25:49] <WormFood> cehteh, that is exactly what I use those exact same labels in my code. "grep" is a wonderful tool
[12:27:01] <cehteh> WormFood: grep does less .. my documentation tool uses git-blame to figure out comment/date/commiter for the given line
[12:27:15] <WormFood> Sure, that's cool
[12:27:27] <cehteh> http://muos.pipapo.org/muos_issues.html
[12:27:47] <cehteh> that was the initial idea, generate a nice text/webpage from it
[12:28:01] <cehteh> i call that issue-tagging .. not issue tracking
[12:28:33] <cehteh> because no extra database mainenance (open, closing, assigning whatthehell) is required
[12:28:51] <WormFood> For simple things, grep is just fine
[12:29:00] <cehteh> of course
[12:29:11] <cehteh> did that before
[12:29:25] <cehteh> but having that now all under make's hood is just awesome
[12:29:32] <WormFood> so, is that muos your project?
[12:29:37] <cehteh> yep
[12:30:04] <WormFood> Why roll your own? Was nothing else out there suiting your needs?
[12:30:18] * cehteh thinks he is approaching a 0.1 release soon
[12:30:39] <cehteh> just for fun.. and i ever wanted to try the concept w/o threads, scheduling functions
[12:30:41] <WormFood> I've used Nut/OS before, with the EtherNUT 1.3 and 2.1 boards. Which is basically a network chip on an atmega128
[12:31:03] <WormFood> no threads?
[12:31:17] <cehteh> so far micro oses either try to do threads .. or some crude workarounds like protothreads
[12:31:31] <cehteh> yes
[12:31:45] <cehteh> no threads, divide your work into smaller function calls and events
[12:31:52] <WormFood> Why not do threading?
[12:31:52] <cehteh> only one stack
[12:31:59] <cehteh> runs on tinys
[12:32:07] <WormFood> You probably need more ram
[12:32:23] <cehteh> i mean not just the OS for show, there is enouh space left to do something useful
[12:32:50] <cehteh> why would i need more ram?
[12:32:52] <WormFood> Yeah, I don't really see much of a need for an OS on most MCUs, with some exceptions of course.
[12:32:56] <WormFood> for more stack
[12:33:02] <WormFood> for multi-tasking
[12:33:04] <cehteh> ah
[12:33:05] <cehteh> yes
[12:33:17] <cehteh> well calling it a OS is gross overstating
[12:33:25] <WormFood> I have some static ram chips, from an old motherboard. They can be used as static ram for an AVR
[12:33:39] <WormFood> The cache ram, from an old motherboard, which is static ram.
[12:33:49] <WormFood> You know what I'm talking about, right?
[12:33:55] <cehteh> its event scheduling and some code abstracting the hardware, call that drivers
[12:34:03] <cehteh> ah yes
[12:34:20] <cehteh> but not much avrs can use that as external sram efficiently
[12:34:34] <WormFood> just need one chip after that. A 74244 or something like that.
[12:35:31] <cehteh> anyway mµOS is mostly my fun thing, second a proof of concept of a idea .. and lastly it should be useable for robust real world applications
[12:35:50] <cehteh> dunno if anyone else going to use it, but see first point :D
[12:36:25] <WormFood> yeah. I just don't see much of a need for an os, for an mcu, under most circumstances.
[12:36:43] <cehteh> as i saied, its not really an OS
[12:36:46] <WormFood> I mean, of course, there are exceptions, and I think the bigger MCUs would be more suited for that.
[12:36:55] <cehteh> more like a runtime library
[12:37:19] <WormFood> Right. Which is more or less what an OS, for a vast majority of the real work it does.
[12:37:20] <cehteh> i never liked the bigger real RT OSes too much to learn, too little to gain
[12:37:58] <cehteh> but i want some boilerplate framework which is universal enough to base a lot projects on it and flexible enough that one can easily hack whatever it lacks
[12:38:01] <WormFood> Now, I actually needed a multitasking OS, for one of my AVR projects. It ran an NTP client, and hosted a telnet server.
[12:38:17] <WormFood> That's a cool idea.
[12:38:27] <cehteh> why multitasking .. wont event based programming be the solution?
[12:38:34] <cehteh> thats what mµOS does :D
[12:38:36] <WormFood> how?
[12:38:52] <cehteh> you react on events, posisbly by some state machine
[12:39:11] <WormFood> I need to be able to act as a telnet server, an ntp client, drive an LCD display, manage a keyboard, and 3 iButton sockets.
[12:39:27] <WormFood> And when 2 events happen at the same time, I'm screwed.
[12:39:42] <cehteh> you have only one processor so you queue them
[12:39:54] <WormFood> time slice it.
[12:40:05] <cehteh> not time slice, cooperatively
[12:40:28] <WormFood> what happens when the ntp client needs to update the time, at the same instant a user is typing on the keyboard?
[12:40:37] <cehteh> for the hard timing constraints you use hardware/drivers/interrupts
[12:40:44] <WormFood> My project didn't have any problems doing that.
[12:41:30] <cehteh> i think that should be conceptually possible in mµOS too (despite lack of all the required drivers yet)
[12:42:07] <WormFood> You need an OS call, to start a new thread. To add it to the process table.
[12:42:20] <cehteh> i dont think so
[12:42:29] <WormFood> heh
[12:42:34] <WormFood> alright
[12:42:37] <cehteh> if you design this with threads in head yes
[12:43:28] <cehteh> but if you build an event model then its equally doable .. except for time slicing vs cooperative context switches
[12:44:07] <cehteh> (and hard realtime which is initiated by interrupts of course always doe some exceptional context switch into the interrupt handler)
[12:46:57] <liwakura> lets do everything with interrupts :D
[12:47:26] <cehteh> that works in some cases too
[12:47:36] <liwakura> i guess all the interrupt flags and stuff could make a good scheduler
[12:47:40] <cehteh> not the smartest solution
[12:47:53] <liwakura> depends on what you are trying to do
[12:47:54] <cehteh> but sometimes its ok
[12:47:57] <cehteh> yes
[13:08:18] <WormFood> I notice the time delay on startup, is 14 clocks, plus 4.1ms, or 65ms. I'm wondering how they're measuring those times. I can only guess it's the internal 128kHz osc.
[13:20:24] <cehteh> they know their chips
[14:05:13] <WormFood> It seems my 12 MHz xtal drives my AVR, without the caps. I know, it's best to have them.
[14:11:40] <phinxy> When i did the calculations for the caps on my 16mhz xtal i ended up with 56pF
[14:11:54] <phinxy> doesnt this sound like way too much
[14:16:38] <RikusW> on avr it should be 22pF
[14:16:43] <RikusW> or even 18pF
[14:16:45] <LeoNerd> That sounds a bit much
[14:16:54] <LeoNerd> The xtal data sheet should give the required load
[14:17:14] <RikusW> phinxy: its all in the avr datasheet
[14:17:31] <LeoNerd> Subtract from that the stray (hard to tell in advance, depends on PCB tolerances), giving you what you need to apply in caps. Then remember to apply double that per cap. because they're effectively in series
[14:19:25] <phinxy> But it should depend on the crystals load capacitance? My crystals load capacitance is 32pF
[14:20:58] <phinxy> A commonly tossed around rule of thumb is to start with a pair of capacitors two times the CL of the crystal
[14:21:59] <LeoNerd> It depends on the crystal, yes
[14:22:19] <LeoNerd> 32pF of required load sounds like quite a bit
[14:57:09] <RikusW> phinxy: I've used both 18 and 22pF caps with 16MHz crystals with no problems, that is the Atmel recommended values
[15:01:41] <phinxy> RikusW yeah, 27pF worked fine but a lot of webpages show a formula how to calculate the correct value depending on the crystals rating. tomorrow ill know if it works
[15:02:21] <RikusW> afaik use lower values for higher frequencies...
[15:11:40] <theBear> eff webpages, avr datasheets got all that crap in nice obvious tables with explanations and reasons in simple langauge next to em, and a little known fact is that crystals are also tuned/measured with a specific hidden-in-specs cap value too, which is worth checking up on if you want good accuracy re: marked frequency, and i supposemight be a factor in those insanely annoying "clock/big complicated digital something stalls after a handful of cycles on
[15:11:40] <theBear> powerup" kinda faults some older gear develops, often so close that literally touching near the clock circuit, sometimes just having a hand NEAR the crystal at poweron, is enough to get them chugging, but often impossible to get working reliably on their own without giving up and just dropping in a 4pin crystal/osc thinger instead
[16:20:46] <liwakura> oh.
[16:20:56] <liwakura> timers stop counting in idle mode?
[16:21:54] <liwakura> yeah, absolutely. fuck.
[16:22:25] <liwakura> wait.
[16:22:47] <jacekowski> liwakura: depends on the mode
[16:22:51] <liwakura> idle mode.
[16:23:05] <Casper> if the main clock stop, then the timers stop
[16:23:13] <liwakura> datasheet says only timer2 with external clock should run
[16:23:22] <jacekowski> liwakura: no
[16:23:30] <jacekowski> liwakura: timers should run in idle
[16:23:34] <jacekowski> liwakura: clock still runs
[16:24:01] <h4x0riz3d> timer1 pls, y u do dis :~(
[16:24:32] <liwakura> javaJake: cpu clock is halted during idle sleep mode, at least on atmega328
[16:24:58] <liwakura> only io, adc and external clock still running
[16:25:03] <liwakura> this should halt my timers.
[16:25:16] <jacekowski> liwakura: unlikely
[16:25:26] <jacekowski> liwakura: external clock is cpu clock
[16:25:45] <liwakura> with "external" i mean clkASY
[16:26:14] <liwakura> my code agrees with you
[16:26:20] <liwakura> if the timers were halted, it should hang
[16:26:42] <jacekowski> did you check the manual
[16:26:48] <jacekowski> http://www.atmel.com/images/atmel-8271-8-bit-avr-microcontroller-atmega48a-48pa-88a-88pa-168a-168pa-328-328p_datasheet_complete.pdf
[16:27:13] <liwakura> jacekowski: go to page 39, table 10-1
[16:27:17] <jacekowski> yeah
[16:27:39] <liwakura> sleep idle doesn't have the cross with clkCPU
[16:27:39] <jacekowski> so clock keeps running, it's just disconnected from the cpu
[16:29:01] <liwakura> ah, 10.3 "Idle Mode" > ... stopping the CPU but allowing the SPI, USART, Analog Comparator, ADC, 2-wire Serial Interface, Timer/Counters, Watchdog, ....
[18:26:58] <phaeton> Hi guis.
[18:27:27] <phaeton> What programmer do the cool kids use these days? I was looking at the one sold by Adafruit, but figured I should ask.
[18:27:48] <Casper> I like the one from Tom_itx
[18:27:53] <theBear> i think , beat me
[18:28:26] <theBear> from memory it's a basic avr-direct-to-usb minimal style whatchacallit, teensy-programmer-esque design
[18:29:03] <theBear> and even if i imagined that bit, tom is a smart feller (and you're a fart smeller hehe) and i talk a lot, and i approved it when i last saw a schem :)
[18:30:59] <phaeton> I just noticed the link at the top. His programmer does look better (the Adafruit one had some size limitations)
[18:31:59] <phaeton> Of course his ecommerce site is not dyndnsing atm
[18:32:38] * Lambda_Aurigae pats his stk200 clone
[18:33:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> the one from Tom_itx is a full functional tpi, isp, pdi programmer with real usb hardware interface.
[18:33:21] <Casper> you could maybe chant his name to invoke him? that... may work (if you're patient enought)
[18:33:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> the one from adafruit uses v-usb to bitbang the usb interface and is considerably slower.
[18:34:10] <LeoNerd> I have the pololu one.. though a v1
[18:34:14] <LeoNerd> They've made a nicer v2 now
[18:34:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah,,, Tom_itx lost his dyndns and his ecommerce site doesn't work but he does sell directly.
[18:34:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> LeoNerd, I love the fact that the pololu is a usbPIC programming an AVR...
[18:34:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> hehe
[18:34:46] * phaeton chants Tom_itx
[18:35:27] <Emil> phaeton: usbasp has never gone out of fashion
[18:35:50] <theBear> wtf ! soundslike i gotta find me tom and offer him a vip free subdomain somewhre under fucking.rememberit.com.au, cos i can, and he's more than earned it, just generally in ways you probly observed yourself, and more than a little bit in a top secret personal-business way some years ago that i still feel bad about, morally speaking
[18:35:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> usbasp is basically the same as the adafruit programmer
[18:36:18] <Emil> Hey, anyone know of a _good_ booatloder for the atmega32u4? The one that came with it is pure shiet
[18:36:35] <Emil> It locks up, increases ACM count all the fucking time and whatnot
[18:36:35] <theBear> technically i can do anything inside rememberit.com.au, but years ago when i first moved in i only had fucking.blah within it, and i got quite fond of the whole address, makes me smile
[18:36:42] <LeoNerd> The Adafruit one is nicer. Combined with a cooperating USB-CDC driver it can do auto-reboot
[18:36:55] <theBear> Emil, i found teh v2 um, leostick by umm wtf is leoround here
[18:37:12] <Emil> theBear: hm?
[18:37:21] <theBear> freetronics
[18:38:13] <theBear> leostick, freetronics, it's a leostupiditalian something clone , but basically just a 32u4 on a usbstick sized little pcb that i got when hurrying and managed to ignore why he is called leo, and just enjoy freetronics awesome little usb shaped 32u4 board
[18:38:48] <LeoNerd> Because of the Arduino Leonardo maybe?
[18:38:51] <theBear> i found it VERY reliable over the pfft, about a year of sporadic but more than tiny-numbers working with this cute little feller
[18:39:02] <Emil> http://www.freetronics.com.au/pages/updating-the-leostick-bootloader
[18:39:12] <Emil> Here is says that upgrading the bootloader gives you access to different stuff
[18:39:13] <Emil> what.
[18:39:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> I should make a bunch of 16f1454 based avr programmers.
[18:39:37] <theBear> LeoNerd, sshsshhhh , that name must not be spoken, and god-forbid anyone do a cartoon depicting one in their newspapers ! hehe, 100% joke, not casual racial slur injection, if anyone takes offence at that
[18:39:38] <Emil> Anycase, you think that the leostick bootloader is good?
[18:39:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> probably make them cheaper than usbasp even.
[18:40:04] <theBear> i mean re: religious ref. i DO actually hate arduino for all kinds of reasons at many layers
[18:41:03] <theBear> Emil, i think unlike arduino they never shipped a defective one and took so long to notice that a new programmer def. had to be added to all the common softwares to un-eff-up that lttle move, and that it never failed or acted unexpectedly in probly a couple hundred program cycles and tests etc
[18:41:04] <phaeton> theBear: yeah?
[18:41:14] <theBear> i mean, that's really all yer want from a bootloader innit ?
[18:41:23] <theBear> well, a "normal" one
[18:41:38] <Emil> theBear: Your words, they don't increase understandability :D
[18:42:10] <Emil> Anycase, I'll give that bootloader a try
[18:42:38] <theBear> phaeton, re: hate ? the company just seem to make every possible choice and decision in the direction that discourages and doesn't help their customers to learn or understand anything they are doing, at every level from sales and advertising thru libraries and forum/website approach etc etc
[18:43:25] <theBear> Emil, heh sorry, bit late, been a long day, plus the old stiff cripple pain probly sneaking up from this excessive ranting in the chair which often effects my outward sanity much more than i notice at the time
[18:43:46] <Emil> theBear: but you recommend the leostick bootloader?
[18:43:51] <Emil> Then I'll give it a try, thanks
[18:43:52] <phaeton> theBear: I haven't done anything with avrs or arduinos, but my impression from reading is that the arduino platform adds an extra layer on top of the avr
[18:44:18] <Emil> phaeton: depends on how you look at it
[18:44:18] <phaeton> So I figured "why bother with the arduino? I'll just go straight to the avr"
[18:44:29] <Emil> phaeton: excellent choice
[18:45:13] <theBear> if you stumble on sopmehow a reasonable priced leostick and yer in the market for a new board at teh time, i think its a damned good little combo of smallness, little things like reset tact switches, useful leds and layout etc, and just generally have been very happy with it, as far as basic avr dev boards go (being my first post 90s series avr, and first native usb i even owned probly helps me love it a littel more too, hot damn abcmini is the man for
[18:45:13] <theBear> that lufa bizz !)
[18:45:51] <Emil> theBear: Not looking for a new board but a bootloader
[18:46:22] <theBear> phaeton, that's a large part of the cause for my feelings to, thing is, i suspect you're the first/only kinda "new user" that has come to get started, and comprehended or even suspected whta you obviously saw as clearly as myself
[18:46:46] <phaeton> theBear: oh I doubt that
[18:47:11] <theBear> Emil, just yaknow, giving credit where it due, i don't disapprove of much i see these days, but it's also not often something just ya know, has all the pros and no little annoying cons, these guys just nailed it ;-)
[18:47:43] <Emil> Wait how fucking much does that board cost
[18:47:54] <Emil> 26$+shipping?
[18:47:59] <Emil> gg I'll make my own :D
[18:50:01] <theBear> phaeton, you probly right, but it's really amazing how many people come to here or a couple channels sideways of here, that literally have no idea what "this avr thing you keep mentioning" is, aka the heart of the arduino they are so fond of and needing questions answered re, suddenly even those i feel should know better think a 2 or 3digit-kb rom/ram micro is just fine to put raw default/compiler optimised OO effing code into, they then wrap stuff that
[18:50:01] <theBear> is already abstracted to a logical and more than sensible level, again adding a wall of not-knowing-what-is-below-some-function, and i can't for the eff of me workout what they thinking witht he pin/port juggling and renumbering, with or without their stupid libs that's just dumb
[18:51:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> theBear, sounds like microsoft programmers.
[18:51:29] <theBear> wtf ? we just got it locally, spose it mustabeen on special, acuttally i think i saw them onthe shelf last week even with about $14 on the tag, and sure this one was under $20, tho at the time something needed doing sooner than later, so a buddy went to 1 of 2 potential places in the whole state that have stuff like that in-shop (both a few blocks away from one another) and just got the cheapest native-usb dev board he could spot
[18:52:21] <theBear> Lambda_Aurigae, heh, i been getting great at just forgetting and avoiding their mess completely after all these years practicing, but i sure they ain't changed at heart, so yeah, kinda like that, only hw/software combo instead of just software/os combo :)
[18:52:30] <phaeton> theBear: pin juggling? yikes
[18:53:39] <theBear> i mean, a micro, renaming/numbering and breaking up nice neat effing 1byte wide ports, then jamming idiot-written OO straight in there, my god the asm that ends up getting flashed must just be horrible, all these patches bits and shuffled bytes for no good reason unless they literally intend to disadvantage theirentire customerbase
[18:54:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> theBear, you've seen the native vs arduino digital write code, yes?
[18:54:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://pastebin.com/dSRSxgax
[18:56:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> now you don't have to imagine.
[18:56:56] <theBear> and even things like PortD standard header def/magic variable/pointers or wtf the accurate term for that standard stuff is in sensible C land, does that REALLY need abstracting and wrapping to a completely different (still makes sense in plain english, but that doesn't help) function or rename, unless you just need something like that to satisfy your ridiculous OO language choice, which just doesn't sound right in my head, i avoided OO since it was
[18:56:56] <theBear> thought up, never worked good in my head and traditional programming sure worked fine, but surely you don't need to wrap a function round a variable/pointer for it to ya know, exist or be used at all, and the result is guaranteeing that users are further confused and shielded from the realities of what they doing
[18:58:47] <theBear> rofl, almost the perfect/exact match for my last 5or 10 minutes of anti-duino rants, and basically reinforcing what i theorised must be the results of some of the nastier things they chose, but proving WAAAAAY more ugly shuffling and nonsense than i ever could imagined
[18:59:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> that's why I posted it.
[18:59:39] <theBear> that's just a horrible mess of "not really doing anything important" asm that only a computer could possibly write without getting straightjacketed or just pausing halfway thru and thinking "pfft, wtf am i doing ? that just, can't be right !"
[18:59:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm considering buying some arduino uno boards just because of what's on them...and they are cheap.
[19:00:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-5-in-1-UNO-R3-Board-Prototype-Shield-Breadboard-Jumper-Wires-400-tie-breadboard/1925885730.html
[19:00:10] <theBear> Lambda_Aurigae, mmm, i thought when you first did that it'd justget me down more, but thanks, 2nd laugh at something supposed to be serious thismornig :)
[19:00:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> if I ordered them now I should get them for christmas.
[19:00:37] <phaeton> well shoot, some nice lady wants me to go for a walk with her. I'll be back maybe
[19:00:41] <phaeton> thanks for the tips everyone
[19:00:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> nice lady?
[19:00:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> girlfriend, eh?
[19:00:58] <phaeton> Lambda_Aurigae: naw, neighbour
[19:01:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> nobody talks about their spouse that way.
[19:01:07] <theBear> mmm, like my little leo guy that damned capitalist approach to stuff makes even such overhyped poorly implemented things as the arduino stuff cheap even if it only poor deluded fools that are causing it :)
[19:01:15] <phaeton> is Tom_itx around sometimes?
[19:01:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> phaeton, here and there.
[19:01:48] <phaeton> hmm... Guess I'll have to just drop in a bunch and get lucky
[19:02:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> just stick around and say his name every once in a while.
[19:02:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm on here all the time even if I'm not actually at home or in front of the computer.
[19:02:42] <phaeton> like a say it 3 times fast under a full moon sort of thing?
[19:02:58] <Emil> Lambda_Aurigae: I just got cancer from that
[19:03:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> Emil, from what? me being online all the time?
[19:03:18] <Emil> Thank you for hammering into my head never to use the arduino libraries
[19:03:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> oh.
[19:03:43] <Emil> I relapsed a bit last night but now I'm coding that thing again
[19:03:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> hehe.
[19:03:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> I got it from someone in here actually.
[19:04:12] <theBear> my friend the lady-neighbor a couple doors up, got the idea that maybe her pretty-awesome best friend girl should be introduced to mr awesome, aka the-effin-bear (who got two thumbs and is superfine ? this guy !)cos i guess i'm now approved as acceptable/good for lady friends vs potential weirdo stranger guy, and well, theBear don't get out to meeta lottaladies these days, and tbh isn't even sure he can err, do the whole gymnastics err, thing since the
[19:04:12] <theBear> big operation in hospimable, all that pushups and long-angle body liftage business, but i sure been thinking i'll give it a darned good try when i get a chance :)
[19:05:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> just lay on your back and let her do all the work!
[19:53:16] <apo___> just lie on your back and think of England
[19:59:33] <jacekowski> theBear: as long as you don't end up with a girl that has the starfish syndrome you are ok
[20:03:52] <theBear> ahh, was a bit confused till i spotted what Lambda_Aurigae said a few lines back, these days with those wacky youths, starfish usually referring to something completely different to that <grin> but yeah, i suspect that's kinda gonna be my "M.O" (heh, always think moostaaaaache when i say or hear that) from now on, thank god i was a major deviant when i was younger, i think i more than saw all anyone could ever need to see years before now, so i guess
[20:03:53] <theBear> it's all recreational, for the joy of just being there and knowing a pretty lady, from here on in, i can live with that hehe
[20:04:50] <theBear> spose pushups and deviant aren't really ummm, mutually inclusive in this cases, maybe the fun ain't done yet, or ideally similar sentence name of post-liberaci documentary
[20:08:23] * Lambda_Aurigae is a really sick deviant...Heterosexual Monogamist....
[20:30:04] <inflex> morn all
[20:33:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> merninish.
[21:22:56] <phaeton> Everybody daed.
[21:30:53] <Evidlo> why code no work?
[21:31:12] <anton02> Lambda_Aurigae, does the rising edge of SCLK signify that you're sending a new G,R,B value
[21:32:49] <anton02> so that needs to be send via SPI i take it?
[21:38:27] <anton02> since you have R1,B1,G1,R2,B2,G2 + 7 bits for row select thats 13 bits of data. 13*3 = 39 bits. So I want 39 bit serial I guess?
[21:38:47] <anton02> (times 3 since im running 3 panels)
[21:44:20] <carabia> the math is strong in this one
[21:57:46] <anton02> Lambda_Aurigae, 32 columns * 32 rows = 1024 sequential operations per update. (im ignoring the other 32 rows because they have their own parallel bit).
[21:57:46] <anton02> since it's recommended to do update 200 times per second 1024*200=204,800
[21:57:46] <anton02> does that mean i need 204.8khz, 39bit SPI?
[21:59:09] <anton02> I'm also ignoring row select bits since they have their own parallel bits
[22:05:59] <anton02> actually i think it means i need 39 separate spis working at 204.8khz each
[22:11:02] <anton02> if we consider that that's not something available and only quad SPI is available. then i need 39/4=9.75 9.75*204800=1996800 which is about 2Mhz speed