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[04:11:56] <LeoNerd> How likely am I to be able to make a "good enough" crimp on a BNC connector to RG174 coax, without the proper tool? I.e. just give it a good squeeze with pliars or somesuch..?
[04:12:19] <LeoNerd> I want to make myself two custom cables, and I'm not sure I want to spend another £25 just for a one-shot crimp tool
[04:12:35] <cehteh> what signal do you want to pass?
[04:14:00] <LeoNerd> It's the current + voltage probe signals from my oscilloscope current probe. So 0-5V, at most about 2MHz. The current sense amplifier's quoted bandwidth is only 1.8MHz anyway
[04:14:48] <LeoNerd> https://www.tindie.com/products/leonerd/oscilloscope-current-probe-adapter/ <== this thing. I want two cables heatshrunk together in a nicely routed pair, with coloured identifying markers on them
[04:15:11] <cehteh> is that a shunt?
[04:15:26] <LeoNerd> 0.1R shunt, 100x gain amp
[04:15:49] <cehteh> i thought people use hal sensors meanwhile :D
[04:15:59] <LeoNerd> People do, if the want to measure amps. Iwant to measure miliamps
[04:16:47] <cehteh> anyway for the signal it shouldnt be much of a problem the only concern would be mechanical and loose joint
[04:17:00] <LeoNerd> Yah.. that's more what I'm thinknig
[04:17:05] <LeoNerd> Idon't want it to fall apart in a few months
[04:17:29] <cehteh> then better get a crimping tool or ask someone to make a cable for your or buy cables
[04:18:03] <LeoNerd> Hrm
[04:19:14] <cehteh> you can get crimp tools for 12-15Eur which are okish
[04:19:41] <cehteh> aka this ratchet types, not utterly crap but also not the best
[04:20:52] <cehteh> but bnc is prolly a bit more complicated than others ..
[04:20:59] <LeoNerd> I wonder if there's a suitably cheap "multi-purpose" tool. Ohwait actually, I do have a body of a crimp tool for other connectors. Maybe it has a switchable head, I could put different ones in
[04:21:45] <cehteh> that may work, if you have the right heads
[04:22:14] <LeoNerd> Yah.. I don't know how universal the head swapping is.
[04:22:37] <LeoNerd> It woudl be annoying to spend £25 on a crimp tool I only use this once, but it would be even more annoying to try to save some money and spend £10 on a new crimp head for a tool I don't have.
[04:23:29] <cehteh> http://www.amazon.de/Crimpzange-Handzange-BNC-Stecker-Anpressdruck-einstellbar/dp/B00EV0KXJI/
[04:23:39] <cehteh> looks like some people have luck with it and some dont :D
[04:23:51] <cehteh> chinese quality control :D
[04:24:12] <cehteh> i'd just buy such one an send it as faulty back when its not ok
[04:24:48] <cehteh> or crimp your cables and then send it back :D
[04:33:52] <LeoNerd> Ah, found a £14 crimp tool. That might do. Same replaceable jaw mechanism as my existing dupont one
[04:38:46] <LeoNerd> Ah screw it, I'll buy the tool and maybe I can recover the cost by selling custom cable sets to go with the scope probe.
[06:42:33] <edwardoid> /join #raspberrypi
[06:48:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> no
[11:29:49] <stephe> hi
[11:31:57] <cehteh> ho
[11:33:26] <WormFood> [16:46:14] <LeoNerd> How likely am I to be able to make a "good enough" crimp on a BNC connector to RG174 coax, without the proper tool? I.e. just give it a good squeeze with pliars or somesuch..? <-- those connectors are extremely difficult to do, without the proper equipment. You most likely won't be able to do it at all (without the proper tools)
[11:33:56] <LeoNerd> OK. I sortof imagined that might be the case. But then I found a fairly cheap (£12) crimp tool, so I've ordered that.
[11:34:16] <LeoNerd> I also got tonnes of spare connectors and extra cable, so I can sell the remainder :)
[11:34:42] <WormFood> +1 for proper tools
[11:35:35] <WormFood> I used to repair radios for a living. I've crimped on my fair share of those types of connectors. And I've tried to do it, with a regular pair of pliers. It's fuckin' impossible.
[11:36:22] <WormFood> I don't get to use BNC a lot, but I've put on a few ends, here and there.
[11:37:12] <jacekowski> you can do it, but it will not be as good as done with a proper tool
[11:37:24] <WormFood> I can put on PL-259's in my sleep...but those are not usually crimped on (for what I was doing)
[11:37:35] <jacekowski> you just can't get correct amount of pressure from all directions at the same time by hand
[11:37:37] <LeoNerd> Those things are also huuuuge
[11:37:38] <WormFood> jacekowski, I challenge you to do it.
[11:37:51] <WormFood> I challenge you to make it "good enough", without the proper tools.
[11:38:45] <WormFood> The problem is, once you crimp it on 2 sides (I'm talking about the tip), it will flatten out the connector, so it won't fit into the other part of the connector.
[11:39:18] <WormFood> [00:11:53] <jacekowski> you just can't get correct amount of pressure from all directions at the same time by hand <-- You can! Just use the proper tool ;P
[11:39:35] <LeoNerd> The tip is usually pressed+soldered isn't it? The only crimped part is the final barrel around the outer braid
[11:39:57] <WormFood> That depends on exactly what type of connector you have.
[11:40:08] <LeoNerd> RG174 BNC
[11:40:14] <jacekowski> WormFood: we must be talking about different connector then
[11:40:24] <LeoNerd> RG174 is stranded conductor. So I'll be soldering that into the brass pin
[11:40:33] <WormFood> The ones I've used the most, have the little tip that is crimped on, before inserting into the body...and then that is crimped to the cable.
[11:40:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've had some that were just press fit on the center pin and others that had to be crimped.
[11:40:43] <jacekowski> WormFood: not the ones i've used
[11:41:00] <WormFood> I've also seen where the tip is soldered on, so I know what style you're talking about.
[11:41:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> and crimping those tips without the right tool is neigh impossible...they deform too easy.
[11:41:26] <WormFood> Lambda_Aurigae, that's what I said. It is impossible, without the proper tools.
[11:41:47] <WormFood> There is simply no way, to put pressure on all sides, at the same time.
[11:42:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> I did enough bnc back in the arcnet and thinnet days that I bought 2 tools.
[11:42:01] <WormFood> Anyways, I gotta run. Chat later.
[11:42:34] <WormFood> Oh yeah, I forgot. I also did that back in the day too. When people were too fuckin' cheap to buy a hub.
[11:42:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> before hubs!
[11:42:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> there weren't hubs in the thinnet days...well, not really.
[11:42:59] <WormFood> yeah
[11:43:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> it was one big long bus.
[11:43:08] <WormFood> But, when I was doing it, there were hubs.
[11:43:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> arcnet was a star with rg-62 cable.
[11:43:19] <stephe> are there any devices that can program avr + talk to the avr through serial?
[11:43:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> so they had passive hubs on arcnet.
[11:43:23] <WormFood> You had a choice, between coax and UTP
[11:43:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> stephe, I have 2 under my bench.
[11:43:45] <WormFood> stephe, what do you mean? The serial port on the avr?
[11:43:50] <stephe> WormFood: yea
[11:43:56] <stephe> Lambda_Aurigae: your feet?
[11:44:01] <WormFood> You'd need to program it with a bootloader
[11:44:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> stephe, you can put a serial bootloader on the chip.
[11:44:06] <WormFood> I mean, a serial bootloader.
[11:44:20] <WormFood> But, without that, then the answer to your question is "no"
[11:44:27] <LeoNerd> stephe: Usually that's two separate devices; the ISP programmer, and a UART adapter
[11:44:35] <stephe> that's what i figured
[11:44:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have some that are serial connected programmers that give me the ability to both program and pass through to the serial port connection on the avr.
[11:44:42] <LeoNerd> Sometimes people combine the two together in one physical device (e.g. Pololu's one), but logically that's two separate functions
[11:45:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> custom made them some years back before I got into usb connected programmers.
[11:45:17] <LeoNerd> Also things loike the avr109 or arduino bootloaders, which are UART-based
[11:46:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> stephe, if you don't have a serial bootloader on the chip then you have to have 2 separate connections...1 for programming and 1 for serial port...they are on different pins of the chip even(usually)
[11:46:21] <stephe> i should probably get a usb hub then, starting to have lots of devices plugged in
[11:46:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> you should probably always run through a usb hub anyhow just for safety...better to blow out the hub than the usb port on your computer if you hook something up wrong.
[11:47:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> hubs are cheaper than motherboards.
[11:47:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> (usually)
[11:47:23] <stephe> don't motherboards usually have protection against that?
[11:47:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> sometimes.
[11:47:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> mostly
[11:47:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> more or less
[11:47:38] <stephe> lol
[11:47:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> speaking from experience, it's not too hard to fry a whole motherboard through the usb port.
[11:48:07] <stephe> but, anyway, can you explain why i would need a serial bootloader?
[11:48:15] <LeoNerd> Reduced pin count?
[11:48:18] <LeoNerd> Laziness?
[11:48:23] <LeoNerd> Ease of using a single cable
[11:48:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> if you wanted to program the chip through the serial port rather than the spi/isp port.
[11:48:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> bootloader lets you upload programs but not change fuses, however.
[11:48:53] <LeoNerd> Which /can/ be a useful safety mechanism
[11:49:01] <stephe> ah, i'm mainly thinking of using the serial to get debug output
[11:49:17] <LeoNerd> You can halfbrick an AVR chip if you don't know what you're doing with an ISP programmer. Whereas a bootloader is usually harder
[11:49:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> LeoNerd, indeed.
[11:49:38] <LeoNerd> Again a reason why arduino uses a UART-based loader is that it's harder to break
[11:49:48] <LeoNerd> You generally can't *accidentally* get yourself into a problem you can't later fix
[11:50:06] <LeoNerd> So it's more beginner-friendly
[11:50:27] <stephe> but the bootloader takes up precious space :)
[11:51:02] <LeoNerd> Yup
[11:51:13] <LeoNerd> But then most Ardunios end up just making a few LEDs blink and then people get bored of the toy
[11:51:18] <stephe> :D
[11:51:30] <LeoNerd> So what's it matter if you've only got 28 of the 32Ki of flash for that?
[11:51:46] <stephe> true
[11:52:21] <LeoNerd> Anything 328P based of mine, I usually blow away the bootloader and just write straight to flash with ISP anyway
[11:52:26] <LeoNerd> And definitely on any of the tinies
[11:52:48] <LeoNerd> I've left the Adafruit bootloader on my 32U4 board for now though, because it has the nice reboot properties
[11:53:18] <stephe> and you usually have two separate connections, one for isp and one for serial debug stuff?
[11:53:33] <LeoNerd> Yuip
[11:53:41] <LeoNerd> Hence my interest in the Pololu device. :)
[11:53:55] <stephe> that makes two of us then :P
[11:54:00] <stephe> what's this device called?
[11:55:04] <LeoNerd> "Pololu AVR programmer"
[11:55:48] <LeoNerd> https://www.pololu.com/product/1300 <== logically it looks like an stk500 and separately a USB-CDC. physically it's an ISP6 connector and a 6-pin UART breakout
[11:55:55] <LeoNerd> Just combined in one device on one USB port
[11:57:10] <stephe> that seems really nice
[11:58:04] <stephe> i have the usbasp and the website says it has a planned serial interface
[11:58:08] <stephe> dunno if they ever got that far
[12:00:33] <LeoNerd> Eh.. the usbasp isn't great
[12:00:39] <LeoNerd> It's V-USB on an ATmega8
[12:00:50] <LeoNerd> That makes it slow and buggy and incompatible
[12:00:55] <LeoNerd> Turns out: doesn't work on my USB3 hub
[12:01:02] <stephe> damn
[12:01:45] <LeoNerd> Also I dislike units built into USB-A plugs like that
[12:01:58] <LeoNerd> It makes it awkard hanging out the side of my laptop, or my bench-mounted USB sockets
[12:02:06] <LeoNerd> I've almost snapped one before when a laptop fell over
[12:02:28] <LeoNerd> The pololu one has a nice USB-miniB socket on board instead, so you use a regular link cable
[12:04:07] <stephe> indeed, i could see myself snapping it off, i'm quite clumsy :D
[12:04:56] <LeoNerd> Another thing ot keep in mind is that the usbasp powers the target device, which isn't *really* what ISP6 is supposed to be for
[12:05:32] <LeoNerd> The VTG pin is supposed to be a *sense* line, "Voltage on TarGet". It powers the IO buffer inside the programmer, to present the required logic level to the target device
[12:08:21] <stephe> LeoNerd: hmm did not know that, thought it was kind of a useful feature since then you don't need a separate power supply
[12:08:28] <LeoNerd> Eh.
[12:08:40] <LeoNerd> It's useful if you want to risk blowing up your USB port if you short something out on the breadboard
[12:09:38] <LeoNerd> I usually use a separate bench power supply now. Though I'm planning to put the pololu board inside a larger case, give it some extra logic to supply switched 5 or 3.3V, with current monitoring/limit
[12:10:46] <LeoNerd> I'm usually quite interested to know what the current draw of the project under development is, and I can't see that via the usbasp
[12:11:51] <stephe> did you see the pololu one has a version 2 LeoNerd:
https://www.pololu.com/product/3170
[12:12:00] <stephe> has a clock output and some other things
[12:12:11] <LeoNerd> Hm.. curious
[12:12:21] <LeoNerd> I do have a dedicated clock/siggen unit already
[12:12:38] <stephe> any interestingly, the v2 is cheaper than v1 :P
[12:12:41] <stephe> *and
[12:13:08] <LeoNerd> Hrm.. where's the clock?
[12:14:51] <LeoNerd> Oh I see... a fixed 100kHz to use as extclock
[12:14:57] <LeoNerd> Yah.. that's an interesting feature
[12:15:07] <LeoNerd> "All I/O pins are protected with 470 Ω resistors" \o/
[12:17:47] <LeoNerd> Ohman.. the v2 was "March 2016".. I.e. really really new
[12:17:52] <LeoNerd> How annoying as I literally just ordered my v1
[12:18:23] <stephe> ah :(
[12:25:55] <stephe> now i need to find other stuff to order from pololu with it :P
[12:26:22] <LeoNerd> I usually use resellers for them
[12:27:44] <stephe> hmmm
[12:31:32] <stephe> indeed, theres a distributor in sweden \o/
[12:55:31] <stephe> LeoNerd: wonder why such a device isn't more popular
[14:05:07] <LeoNerd> stephe: Lack of publicity? Price? usbasp based programmers are pretty cheap
[14:27:59] <stephe> LeoNerd: woo woo bought it :)
[18:34:15] <LeoNerd> stephe: The v2? My v1 is inbound.. hopefully tomorrow or maybe Wed.
[18:42:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> stephe, the biggest problem with serial interface on the usbasp is the fact that it is a hack and outside the usb specifications....low speed usb doesn't officially support CDC(virtual serial port) although most modern OSs will support it these days, either directly or with a kernel patch.
[20:17:03] <lorenzo> ugh
[20:17:10] <lorenzo> atmega32u4 is 6.5$?!?
[20:17:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> if you say si.
[20:17:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> so
[20:17:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> never bought one myself.
[20:18:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> that's about what I paid for a bunch of atmega1284p chips 6 years ago.
[20:18:41] <lorenzo> was looking on mouser
[20:19:04] <lorenzo> http://www.mouser.it/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=atmega32u4
[20:19:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> I haven't had to buy any avr or pic microcontrollers in a few years.
[20:19:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> free samples rock.
[20:45:17] <Casper> no free sample for avr in canada...
[20:45:24] <Casper> and mouser are theif for canadians
[20:45:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> never ordered from mouser myself.
[20:45:49] <Casper> I went to order once
[20:45:55] <Casper> dunnot if they changed since then
[20:46:01] <Casper> but most was more expensive
[20:46:10] <Casper> but some stuff was cheaper
[20:46:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's hard getting samples from atmel though...gotta take your rep out for a beer...if your rep lives nearby.
[20:46:20] <Casper> however, they don't take care of the custom stuff
[20:46:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> how bout digikey?
[20:46:41] <Casper> meaning that you pay both tax (we have 2 tax in quebec), plus custom fees
[20:47:28] <Casper> digikey have an office in toronto, so I pay only one of the 2 tax, and since it's a canadian order from a canadian based compagny, no customs
[20:47:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> that works then.
[20:47:53] <Casper> yes
[20:48:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have several digikey catalogs here...hardcopy.
[20:48:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> things are bigger than the new york city phone book.
[20:48:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> I make an order once a year..couple hundred dollars of bits-n-pieces.
[20:48:56] <Casper> the tax here are 5% for the federal + 9.975% for quebec
[20:49:00] <Casper> for ~15%
[20:49:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> half the stuff I don't need but I have lots of filled bins of bits.
[20:49:47] <Casper> since it's outside quebec, I pay only the federal tax: 5%
[20:50:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> kewl.
[20:50:51] <Casper> yup
[20:51:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> one of these days I'll make the journey north to the digikey office just for the fun of it.
[20:52:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> don't know if they have a showroom or not but it might be fun to try to get a tour of their facility.
[20:54:19] <Casper> if they are even open to the public
[20:54:28] <Casper> what I'ld like is to visit newegg
[20:54:33] <Casper> but... they are too far
[20:54:39] <Casper> that and aden camera
[20:55:39] <Casper> aden camera... 5h37mins drive, if all goes well
[20:56:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> anyplace is open to the public if you make them think you are important enough!
[20:56:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> I got a tour of the xerox engineering and toner production facilities out in new york last summer.
[20:57:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> but, so did my classmates.
[20:57:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> we were out there for xerox training.
[20:57:48] <Casper> I need to find some heatsink that I can glue on chip...
[20:58:07] <Casper> hopefully preventing another main chip in my printer from dieing
[20:58:14] <Casper> ... if it is due to overheating that's it...
[20:58:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> regular heatsink and some thermal epoxy.
[20:58:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/heat-sinks/24797
[20:58:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> or those.
[20:59:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> include thermal tape.
[20:59:24] <Casper> yeah
[20:59:53] <Casper> did you ever saw a printer which the lcd say " ady" instead of "Ready" ? :D
[21:00:11] <Casper> or reboot when you try to print? or deadlock?
[21:00:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> reboot or deadlock, yes.
[21:00:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> all the time.
[21:00:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> I fix copiers and printers for a living.
[21:00:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> HP?
[21:01:11] <Casper> yes
[21:01:28] <Casper> I ordered a "new" formatter board
[21:01:36] <Casper> hopefully this will fix the issue
[21:02:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> usually does.
[21:02:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> unless it is a ram error and you have replaceable ram sticks.
[21:02:43] <Casper> might be ram error, which is on the same board
[21:02:56] <Casper> and I do have another stick, but even without it it do the same thing
[21:03:12] <Casper> but I find that the main chip get weirdly hot at idle
[21:03:25] <Casper> I think it didn't liked that I printed massive documents
[21:03:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> then, yeah, just formatter board replacement should fix it.
[21:03:33] <Casper> like that 600 pages pdf...
[21:03:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> that's nothing.
[21:03:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have customers who do that continuously.
[21:04:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> one customer in particular runs a pair of HP LJ8150 printers continuously 12 hours a day
[21:04:27] <Casper> the printer may not be designed for that...
[21:04:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> they have 2 standby units..when one dies they just move the network cable and keep going...and call us.
[21:04:44] <Casper> atleast the powersupply is rock solid, I think
[21:05:01] <Casper> I just hope that the board from china will work
[21:05:10] <Casper> found it there for 35$
[21:05:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> sounds kinda low.
[21:05:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> what model printer?
[21:05:22] <Casper> in north america? 200-350$
[21:05:32] <Casper> hp color laserjet 2605dn
[21:05:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> think we have one or three of those on the shelf.
[21:05:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> costly to run.
[21:06:43] <Casper> and the laser unit is stupidly brainlessly made
[21:06:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup.
[21:06:51] <Casper> I mean c'mon! why put a FAN on it?
[21:06:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> they are on most of them.
[21:07:00] <Casper> why make it fully open to dust?
[21:07:29] <Casper> there is not much heat generating stuff there beside the 4 lasers, but again, a tiny change in constuction would have fixed it
[21:08:19] <Casper> but it's weird to see the powersupply voltages
[21:08:33] <Casper> found a 3.3V and a 24V and... a 2.4V
[21:08:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup.
[21:08:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> 24V is normal.
[21:09:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> motors all run at 24V in most copiers and printers.
[21:09:34] <Casper> yes, I did expected the 3.3 and 24
[21:09:42] <Casper> but the 2.4? weird
[21:09:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> the 2.4 does sound strange.
[21:11:59] <Casper> I also found it weird that each supply have it's own ground, which is ideal
[21:13:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup.
[21:13:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> that's very common.
[21:13:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> grounding is very important in laser devices.
[21:13:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> can't have stray noise.
[21:18:19] <Casper> do you think it's worth to put a small sink on the cpu?
[21:19:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> really not necessary unless you run it in a particularly hot environment.
[21:19:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> and,,,time for me to head to bed.
[21:19:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> wifley person is demanding my presence in the sleep chamber.
[21:21:26] <Valen> printers are the debil
[21:21:28] <Valen> just sayin
[21:21:40] * Valen nominates Lambda_Aurigae chief debil tamer
[21:22:38] <Casper> nite Lambda_Aurigae
[21:22:45] <Casper> Valen: I do agree