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[00:37:22] <Jartza> morning
[00:38:14] <Jartza> Casper: pwm is jitter free, interrupts are not
[00:39:04] <Jartza> when interrupt fires, avr runs the current instruction to finish, which means 1-3 clock cycles.
[00:39:28] <Jartza> and then stores PC, jumps to vector (which usually is jump to isr)....
[00:45:24] <Casper> Jartza: pwm can have glitch due to when it get updated
[00:54:06] <Jartza> oh, I've never noticed glitch on attiny85 pwm at least
[01:01:33] <Casper> it depend on how you set it
[01:01:48] <Casper> if you set it to immediate, or update at top or bottom... the behavior is different
[01:02:07] <Casper> it may not be an issue, or it can be
[04:25:06] <lorenzo> flyback: hi
[04:25:10] <lorenzo> just got the nokia module thing
[04:25:11] <lorenzo> :)
[06:32:02] <nicohooooood> hey guy, i found a type here. if anyone knows where to report the typo, please do so:
http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/group__avr__boot.html#gaeb0dba1dd9d338516a94c0bd8a8db78a
[06:32:08] <nicohooooood> memory is written wrong
[06:42:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> report it to www.nognu.org
[06:42:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> right where you found it.
[06:44:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/avr-chat
[06:47:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> or
[06:47:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/avr-libc
[07:14:42] <julius_> hi
[07:14:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> iH
[07:18:48] <julius_> in this circuit:
https://www.mikrocontroller.net/wikifiles/0/01/Motor_PWM1_real.gif the flyback diode can only withstand: 45v reverse voltage
https://www.fairchildsemi.com/datasheets/MB/MBR1035.pdf is that enough for that circuit?
[07:21:52] <twnqx> if you use a 48V motor, likely not.
[07:22:14] <twnqx> if it's a 12V motor, what makes you think it would ever see more than 12V reverse voltage?
[07:22:27] <LeoNerd> back-EMF could be a lot, briefly
[07:22:28] <julius_> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schutzdiode#/media/File:Catchdiode.png
[07:22:43] <julius_> or do i read that wrong?
[07:22:45] <cehteh> back-emf would only go up w/o diode
[07:22:48] <LeoNerd> It's likely to spike into possibly-hundreds of volts, but only at tiny current for a short time
[07:22:49] <twnqx> back-emf would not be in far negative voltages, or would it
[07:22:55] <cehteh> but with diode it stays low .. and its not reverse
[07:23:06] <julius_> ah, not reverse
[07:23:12] <LeoNerd> Hrm?
[07:23:20] <twnqx> exactly
[07:23:25] <LeoNerd> When you let the magnetic field in a motor winding collapse, you get back-EMF. That's unavoiable
[07:23:26] <cehteh> its the point of the diode to remove the back emf
[07:23:35] <twnqx> it's the conductive direction where these voltages occur, and thus no breakdown :P
[07:23:35] <LeoNerd> The diode is there to short it out, and stop it flowing further back into the controller
[07:23:59] <cehteh> yes you get back-emf but before it can build up a high voltage the current flows through the diode and lets the field collapse
[07:24:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> diode only works if the motor only runs in one direction though.
[07:24:22] <twnqx> you all missed his point :P
[07:24:23] <julius_> in the wikipedia graphic 12v is above, when switching off the motor will reverse the voltage polarity
[07:24:29] <cehteh> without diode you get rather high voltage spike .. but the diode prevents that
[07:24:58] <twnqx> but this reminds me of an eternal question i have
[07:25:12] <twnqx> if you just shove voltages higher than your supply into your supply...
[07:25:14] <cehteh> julius_: told ya few days ago any small, maybe fast (schottky) diode will do the job
[07:25:36] <twnqx> couldn't this - potentially - raise the supply voltage to a destructive point?
[07:25:40] <cehteh> 1A at most, only reverse current with a bit headroom over your motors voltage
[07:25:45] <julius_> cehteh, yes you did
[07:26:17] <cehteh> actually most diodes are about 50V or more so you are fine
[07:26:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> julius_, that diode should handle that circuit just fine...schottky diode is best for that because it is fast and will catch the energy quickly...the reverse breakdown voltage only needs to be a little over the voltage used to drive the motor.
[07:26:43] <cehteh> and that fat 10A TO220 diode in that circruit is massively overrated
[07:27:08] <cehteh> how fast are zener diodes?
[07:27:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> dunno but you wouldn't want to use a zener for that I wouldn't think.
[07:27:23] <LeoNerd> You really don't want a zenner in here
[07:27:33] <julius_> cehteh, the german source says that a zener would be to slow
[07:27:41] <cehteh> no ... just asking out of curiosity
[07:27:44] <julius_> cehteh, especially a 4148
[07:27:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> unless the zener breakdown is higher than your drive voltage....zener is better for its breakdown voltage.
[07:27:56] <cehteh> 4148 is not a zener
[07:28:02] <cehteh> thats a normal Si diode
[07:29:32] <cehteh> julius_: but you definately want some caps against noise on a fat DC motor
[07:29:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> julius_, get your answer questioned?
[07:29:49] <daey> are zener diodes abused as normal diodes because they have better properties sometimes?
[07:29:49] <julius_> yes thanks
[07:30:08] <daey> didnt even know they have noticably better properties
[07:30:09] <cehteh> thats why i asked out of curiosity .. but i guess not
[07:30:11] <julius_> just looking at the picture wasnt such a good idea, the description says that the lower part shows the circuit with diode
[07:30:43] <julius_> cehteh, yes i got the 1000uf as described in the circuit
[07:30:47] <LeoNerd> Huh? Zener diodes are quite different
[07:30:55] <cehteh> huh?
[07:31:02] <daey> that wasnt the question
[07:31:04] <cehteh> julius_: ah not that
[07:31:05] <LeoNerd> Zeners are chosen because they have a very *low* forward voltage breakdown
[07:31:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> daey, sometimes, depending, but they tend to be more expensive and have a much lower reverse breakdown voltage(which is what they are for anyhow)
[07:31:20] <LeoNerd> Er.. reverse, even. :)
[07:31:27] <cehteh> julius_: 10-100nf over the motor poles
[07:32:00] <LeoNerd> It starts conducting at a quite predictable voltage around the 2 to 10-ish volts range, as compared a less predictable and higher value of dozens to hundreds, for the "real" ones
[07:32:07] <daey> Lambda_Aurigae: yeah. the anomaly is what you want them for usually. i was just wondering if idk 50V zeners are used in <50V circuits because they may be quicker
[07:32:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> also, a zener will reset after having its reverse breakdown voltage exceeded...a normal diode won't..
[07:32:55] <daey> but the second speed becomes meaningful i guess a schottky diode is the way to go
[07:33:33] <cehteh> julius_: you for that 1000µF you can even biggier caps and that one might be rated with a bit higher voltage, 25V at least, not 16V
[07:33:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> daey, I'm sure they an be, yes. I've seen them used as part of a fuse circuit using a complex current/voltage circuit and a zener to do the breakdown and self reset after....it was an experimental circuit that never went anywhere.
[07:33:45] <cehteh> 4700µF wont hurt there
[07:34:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> cehteh, bah....10F supercap for the fun of it!
[07:34:30] <cehteh> julius_:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entst6rkondensator (thats for 220V)
[07:34:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> shut the motor off and watch it keep running.
[07:34:39] <cehteh> thats % fault
[07:34:44] <cehteh> lol
[07:35:16] <cehteh> Lambda_Aurigae: he has a cars windshield wiper (or wascher?) motor
[07:35:31] <cehteh> bigger one i guess, that would need more than 10F
[07:35:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> ok, so half a dozen 10F caps.
[07:36:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> I miss making leyden jars dangit.
[07:36:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> need some more big glass jars.
[07:36:52] <cehteh> small ohm resistor in series with the whole shit when it draws too much power when turned on helps too
[07:36:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> hmm...wonder if plastic buckets would work for that.
[07:37:07] <cehteh> 5 ohm 1watt or so
[07:40:16] <Jartza> hallo
[07:40:40] <cehteh> julius_:
https://www.mikrocontroller.net/attachment/161993/Gleichstrommotor.gif
[07:41:39] <cehteh> c2, c3 and the inductors are optional, if you can add them, if not, run it, see if it generates noisem if not you hve luck
[07:49:10] <cehteh> Lambda_Aurigae: you didnt meant a standard crowbar circruit?
[07:59:04] <julius_> thank you
[07:59:13] <julius_> but i need to take a nap, only had like 5 hours of sleep
[08:16:50] <nicohooooood> when doing a bootloader spm instruction, where is the page buffer located? it seems to be a special buffer outside of the normal ram? is that correct? otherwise i do not understand where it copies the data to.
[08:18:08] <LeoNerd> I believe that's the case, yes. A special temporary holding area within the flash controller
[08:18:41] <nicohooooood> so its 128 bytes of additional ram JUST for reprogramming and cannot be used for something else?
[08:20:00] <LeoNerd> Well, whatever size a flash page is I suppose
[08:21:02] <nicohooooood> yep
[08:21:04] <nicohooooood> okay thx
[08:21:12] <nicohooooood> cause this was not clear to me from the datasheet
[08:51:35] <Jartza> nicohooooood: yeah, too bad it can't be used for anything else :)
[08:55:04] <Jartza> even attiny85 has 64 bytes of that page buffer
[09:02:12] <nicohooooood> if a timer interrupt occurs and the timer code executes a ret, will it then end the interrupt and execute the code that was set in the ret?
[09:02:50] <cehteh> reti
[09:03:01] <nicohooooood> yep
[09:03:15] <cehteh> still dont understand your question
[09:03:23] <nicohooooood> will it end the timer? or will the code just continues from where it was interrupted?
[09:03:30] <cehteh> end the timer?
[09:03:39] <nicohooooood> normal you have: code, timer, code goes on
[09:03:57] <nicohooooood> what if you do: code, timer, reti inside the timer, what will happen then?
[09:04:20] <nicohooooood> i am wondering how this avr bootloade rhack jumps back to the application
[09:04:44] <nicohooooood> https://gist.github.com/Snial/2d516b6305165bf81415#file-bootjacker-c-L185
[09:04:54] <cehteh> timers are hardware entities, they generate interrupts and interrupts are just like async calls .. the current command gets completes, then it jumps into the interrupt handler and finally retis from that
[09:05:20] <cehteh> with some special things like when an interrupt is executed the correspondending interrupt flags get cleared
[09:05:55] <cehteh> interrupts are usually disabled in the interrupt, reti is like sei(); return simply speaking
[09:06:27] <cehteh> i havent studied this bootjack code, there is no point in it, discussed that some days ago
[09:06:40] <nicohooooood> this hack will setup a timer, jump into the bootloader section, execute spm, timer will occur and the timer code will get you somehow back to the application
[09:06:57] <cehteh> when you allow untrusted code .. then it can do untrusted things, point, out, over
[09:07:08] <cehteh> yeah
[09:07:21] <nicohooooood> i just dont know how it gets back to the appliction. does it directly jump to the application from the ISR or does it set something, where it relies on the bootloader code to call a return?
[09:07:52] <cehteh> i havent looked at the code, but reti will jump back to whatever is put on the stack
[09:08:22] <cehteh> stack is writeable ram, old story, most attacks tweak this return vectors to do something
[09:09:49] <cehteh> thats the most common attack, almost all attacks nowadays somehow (with very complicated tricks) boil down to manipulate the stackframe so that some code which isnt originally in the application gets executed
[09:20:09] <t4nk482> hi
[09:22:59] <t4nk482> Would anyone know why my USBasp doesnt work with avrdude? It displays a different device identifier whenever i input a different command. Bad connection or what?
[09:23:46] <cehteh> how different?
[09:23:58] <cehteh> different each time. or just not what you expect?
[09:24:39] <cehteh> (90% of all usbasp problems are cabeling problems anyway)
[09:25:11] <t4nk482> well
[09:25:43] <t4nk482> one command its 0x440000
[09:25:49] <t4nk482> then 0x4a0000
[09:26:01] <cehteh> check cableing
[09:26:05] <t4nk482> then 0x460000
[09:26:23] <cehteh> try add -B4 or -B8
[09:26:34] <t4nk482> I have a 10-pin usbasp with a cable to a 10-6 pin converter and then the rest with jumper cables
[09:27:10] <t4nk482> b4 does change it to 0x5e0000
[09:27:14] <vegii> Hi. There are some 32u4 boards on ali. Are they all compatible with each other, and seen by ArduinoIDE as Leonardo??
[09:27:20] <vegii> *one question mark
[09:27:29] <t4nk482> same with b8
[09:27:43] <cehteh> and is that correct?
[09:27:49] <t4nk482> cabling seems fne to me
[09:27:59] <t4nk482> no it should be 0x!e9307
[09:28:06] <t4nk482> 0x1E9307
[09:28:41] <cehteh> -B not -b btw
[09:28:47] <t4nk482> could it be a faulty oscilator? or a faulty usbasp?
[09:28:54] <t4nk482> yup i did it with upper case ;)
[09:29:20] <cehteh> could be
[09:29:43] <cehteh> -B 16 ...
[09:29:47] <t4nk482> oscillator or usbasp?
[09:30:02] <cehteh> sorry my crystal sphere is broken
[09:30:03] <t4nk482> 0x5e0000 with -B16
[09:30:07] <t4nk482> doesnt change
[09:30:15] <t4nk482> what do you mean?
[09:30:17] <cehteh> you have to debug it
[09:30:25] <t4nk482> oh :P
[09:30:39] <t4nk482> I'm pretty new tbh
[09:30:49] <t4nk482> So how would i do that?
[09:30:54] <cehteh> most likely you wired something wrong
[09:31:19] <t4nk482> double checked the wiring
[09:31:58] <cehteh> 6 pins in use? 5V? 3.3V .. how do you power the target? what target is it?
[09:32:09] <cehteh> how is it clocked?
[09:32:40] <cehteh> raw chip or some arduino or otherwise development board?
[09:33:09] <t4nk482> yes connected VCC GND MISO MOSI SCK RST. 5V from usb . It is atmega8a on a breadboard. Its using an external 16mhz oscillator
[09:33:40] <t4nk482> oscillator connected to ground through caps
[09:34:18] <cehteh> did you set the fuses to use the osc (which means you had to program it at least once)
[09:34:19] <t4nk482> 2 caps to each leg , 10 each
[09:34:35] <cehteh> 10 caps?
[09:35:53] <t4nk482> 2 capacitors 10 uf each
[09:36:05] <t4nk482> I've set it with arduino
[09:36:20] <t4nk482> Even if I havent should it still work on an internal oscillator?
[09:36:52] <cehteh> yes .. but its either/or .. and possibly you set the fuses wrong, now it doesnt oscillate stable
[09:37:01] <cehteh> and 10µF? on osc?
[09:37:05] <cehteh> sounds wrong
[09:37:22] <cehteh> what osc is it?
[09:37:49] <t4nk482> 10pf i mean
[09:38:02] <t4nk482> I set the fuses according to a caculator
[09:38:27] <cehteh> looking at the datasheet .. says 12-22pf ...
[09:38:56] <cehteh> could be that 10pF doesnt swing
[09:39:02] <t4nk482> That's why i used 2
[09:39:10] <t4nk482> 2 10pf caps on each leg
[09:39:27] <cehteh> parallel or in series?
[09:40:18] <t4nk482> parallel
[09:40:22] <cehteh> mhm
[09:40:38] <cehteh> should/could work, but i am not convinced :D
[09:40:45] <t4nk482> :P
[09:40:57] <t4nk482> Problem is arduino could write to it with a bit of hacking
[09:41:04] <t4nk482> usbasp cant
[09:41:12] <cehteh> someday i should hack the usbasp firmware to output clock on a unused pin
[09:41:36] <t4nk482> That'd be useful :D
[09:41:40] <t4nk482> on one of the 3 gnd
[09:42:08] <cehteh> gnd wont work, but there are a lot unused pins
[09:43:26] <cehteh> so hack your arduino back to be a ISP proigrammer ... hook up your usbasp with the self-programming jumper set and investigate your usbasp
[09:43:26] <t4nk482> txd and rxd?
[09:43:34] <cehteh> that will work
[09:43:45] <cehteh> or some pin really unused, not on the header
[09:44:11] <t4nk482> I really wanted to move on from the arduino
[09:44:18] <cehteh> usually and for me usbasp work well
[09:44:20] <t4nk482> It's not as convenient
[09:44:29] <cehteh> but i heared some ship with old/broken firmware
[09:44:55] <cehteh> i still use arduino hardware for debugging, its easier
[09:45:01] <cehteh> but not the arduino libs
[09:45:20] <cehteh> and some tiny projects which are programmed with usbasp on raw chips
[09:46:06] <t4nk482> Yeah it is easier, but i wanted something a bit more portable and something that I would care that much if it broke while travelling
[09:46:17] <t4nk482> why not the arduino libs?
[09:47:23] <cehteh> dont do what i want .. bloat too much
[09:47:37] <cehteh> for some quick'n'dirty things mmkay
[09:48:18] <t4nk482> :P
[09:48:32] <t4nk482> Well I'm gonna try to wire it all up brb
[10:22:08] <t4nk482> its tough
[10:30:58] <phinxy> Can i leave the JTAG pin Voltage Reference unconnected if i dont want to power the mcu from the programmer?
[10:31:40] <phinxy> maybe its not even possible to power the mcu from the avr dragon
[10:33:15] <Chillum> if the logic level is the same as the power level then you should be able to leave the programmer power wire out, but you will need to connect ground
[11:21:36] * flyback bites julius_
[11:21:46] * flyback bites tis_me
[11:21:48] <flyback> CANUCK
[11:23:28] * twnqx opto-insulates flyback
[11:23:44] <flyback> ;P
[11:52:37] <julius_> flyback, thats just the translation
[11:53:27] <cehteh> grr .. forgot one break; ... half of the afternoon debugging
[11:53:42] <julius_> uh, that stings
[11:54:31] <cehteh> julius_: wb .. btw on the driver circruit you posted, you may add a pulldown at the µC output
[11:54:50] <cehteh> its not terribly important, but better safe than sorry
[11:55:26] <cehteh> with FET's it would be mandatory, for normal transitors its just good style
[11:55:31] <phinxy> starting to learn AutoCad, made a schematic:
http://i.imgur.com/3PSyROF.png is it fine that the pin legs arent the correct size? the only thing in real size is the ratio of height/width for the packages..
[11:55:45] <cehteh> schematics with autocad?
[11:55:52] <phinxy> bad idea?
[11:55:57] <cehteh> yeah
[11:56:10] <cehteh> $$$ and better alternatives
[11:56:21] <cehteh> try eagle, kicad, whatever
[11:56:40] <cehteh> electronic cad programs
[11:56:55] <LeoNerd> kicad is nice
[11:57:10] <cehteh> i like it too
[11:57:11] <phinxy> yeah ive come across kicad before..
[11:57:22] <phinxy> isnt it just for pcb layouts?
[11:57:41] <LeoNerd> It has two main editors; the schematic editor and the PCB layout editor
[11:57:47] <cehteh> but it has some backs .. they constantly change their format, old projects cant be read by new versions, some parts in the library have bugs etc
[11:57:53] <cehteh> but i still like it
[11:57:55] <LeoNerd> If you're going to make a PCB, you'd start from a schematic. So it needs a schematic to start from
[11:58:10] <LeoNerd> You can entirely ignore the PCB half if you want, and just use it for schematic capture/documentation
[11:58:17] <cehteh> yes you always start with schematics
[11:58:35] <cehteh> or use fritzing :D
[11:58:37] <phinxy> mad software
[12:01:43] <phinxy> does kicad have auto generation of layout like fritzing has
[12:03:46] <cehteh> no
[12:03:58] <cehteh> maybe the new version i have only a older here
[12:04:07] <cehteh> they recently made a big overhaul
[12:04:38] <cehteh> i like its ratsnest mode more than eagles .. but i never used eagle seriously
[12:04:41] <LeoNerd> There's some modicum of autorouting tools, but generally tools like that are terrible; and any vaguely-competent human can do a better job
[12:04:52] <cehteh> yes
[12:05:08] <cehteh> esp when you have some constraints/idea about placement of the components
[12:05:19] <LeoNerd> I wouldn't let an autorouter do it for me anyway... they generally don't understand things like "so yes this is a clock line, please avoid vias; but that is an LED so sure, via the hell out of it if you have to"
[12:05:33] <cehteh> rats-nest helps a lot
[12:05:54] <cehteh> there are design rules for such
[12:06:12] <cehteh> but setting that all up and learning to use it productively is beyond my scope
[12:10:45] <cehteh> mhm can I test if the RX pin is idle for some timeout w/o interfering with the running and configured UART ... capture or pinchange interrupt? .. (if no one knows, i'll just try)
[12:15:23] <cehteh> ah fuu .. my lineedit doesnt work with utf8 ....
[12:15:49] <LeoNerd> Fun times :)
[12:16:04] <cehteh> nah should be simple to fix
[12:17:24] <cehteh> not that it really needs utf8 .. but looks ugly if one can enter utf8 chars but delete/backspace trashes them
[12:25:42] <julius_> cehteh, like 10k?
[12:25:52] <cehteh> yep
[12:27:11] <cehteh> this is when you boot up or the µC isnt running for some reason, the pin may be high-z, any stray charge or noise could switch a FET and thus the motor on
[12:27:47] <cehteh> but a bipolar transistor draws current so here it might be not really required
[12:32:14] <phinxy> how come kiCAD have all the atmega family chips but no microship/pic ones?
[12:33:03] <LeoNerd> Presumably: because nobody's submitted them
[12:33:19] <LeoNerd> These components/footprints only get created because people make them. People are only going to make the things they're going to us
[12:33:20] <LeoNerd> use
[12:33:43] <phinxy> ok :)
[12:33:49] <LeoNerd> I expect the general kind of user who uses the open-source kicad is more likely to be using Atmel chips with their nicely free-and-open toolchain, and less likely to be using PICs
[12:34:10] <LeoNerd> But certainly, if anyone wanted to submit them I'm sure they'd be most welcome
[12:35:14] <cehteh> are there 8051? :)
[12:35:30] <daey> biggest project i know that iirc. was done in kicad is hackrf
[12:36:57] <cehteh> http://public.pipapo.org/beep_front3d.png http://public.pipapo.org/beep_back3d.png ... my biggest project so far :D
[12:37:55] <cehteh> actually not even realized .. didnt got over the planning stage
[12:45:24] <t4nk482> I officialy cant flash for shit
[12:45:42] <t4nk482> arduino is out of sync
[12:45:47] <t4nk482> no matter what i do
[12:48:30] <t4nk482> Also usbasp is definitely bugged because it shows 0x440000 even when nothing is connected
[13:10:35] <darkgoogle> Can a atmega2560 take a picture from a serial ttl cam quick?
[13:11:43] <darkgoogle> Within a few milliseconds?
[13:16:56] <learath> that seems unlikely. what kind of data rate?
[13:19:18] <t4nk482> cehteh: Nothing works
[13:26:08] <cehteh> mhm
[13:30:44] <t4nk482> I literally tried everything and sat there for 2 hours.
[13:31:19] <t4nk482> Disocnnecting ISP headers, connecting them, putting 10uf cap between reset and ground then between reset and 5v
[13:31:28] <t4nk482> Checked connections a million times
[13:31:34] <t4nk482> I have no idea what is going on
[13:31:52] <t4nk482> Why is my arduino not responding
[13:31:52] <t4nk482> idk
[13:32:20] <t4nk482> at the end it will probably have been a loose cable or some shit
[13:50:04] <learath> t4nk482: were you mean to it?
[13:50:12] <learath> did you call it names?
[15:00:19] <julius_> sometimes i think the god of avr has his days and makes circuits fail randomely
[15:00:50] <julius_> t4nk482, welcome to the club...my atmega is currently stubborn as hell
[15:17:44] <t4nk482> Well that's life
[15:18:08] <t4nk482> learath: No. I was very nice to it. At first
[15:18:25] <t4nk482> julius_: Same ! Atmega8 AND Atmega2560
[15:18:37] <t4nk482> both wont do any of my bidding
[15:32:11] <julius_> do you guys thing that the xmega series is overprized compared to cortex m3?
[16:42:56] <slaterr> hi
[16:42:57] <slaterr> how hard is it to control a mobile phone with mcu? is simulating a button push as simple as shorting some contacts?
[16:43:13] <slaterr> one of those old phones with normal buttons. not a touch screen
[16:44:13] <julius_> "pressing" a number, and dialing is not complicated
[16:44:29] <slaterr> that is all i need, dialing, calling, answering
[16:44:45] <julius_> answering?
[16:44:50] <slaterr> answering a call
[16:44:57] <julius_> accepting you mean?
[16:44:59] <slaterr> which i guess is just simulating another button push
[16:45:04] <slaterr> yeah
[16:45:07] <julius_> like a "remote" control for your mobile?
[16:45:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> interfacing to the buttons shouldn't be too difficult one would think.
[16:46:11] <slaterr> julius_ not remote. i have a couple of ancient cellphones in the drawer with a broken scree, but which otherwise still work fine
[16:47:25] <julius_> yes remote was just a example
[16:47:38] <julius_> meaning, not operating the phone directly
[16:49:15] <slaterr> yeah
[16:49:47] <slaterr> is it likely to be harder than i imagine it to be? just shorting two contacts
[16:49:51] <slaterr> i guess it is time to try
[16:49:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> if the buttons are all a 1x12 matrix it will be easy.
[16:50:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> if they are in a 3x4, maybe a bit more difficult but not that hard.
[16:50:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah, you could use a transistor or relay to short the contacts easily enough.
[16:50:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> or you could actually figure out the matrix and use fewer i/o lines from the microcontroller possibly.
[16:52:05] <slaterr> that would be much better yeah
[16:55:48] <slaterr> is there some general pattern that they usually follow?
[16:58:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> row and column most likely.
[16:58:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> I suggest tearing things apart and looking,,,testing with a meter, and generally, HACKING
[17:00:50] <slaterr> yep. would be easier with a screen tho
[17:23:11] <twnqx> do you think i will be able to find a datasheet for an AM9511A?
[17:23:16] <twnqx> mine arrived today :)
[17:25:19] <twnqx> actually
[17:25:20] <twnqx> i did
[17:26:19] <twnqx> now i have a floating point vo processor to go with an avr. muahahaha.
[17:26:26] <twnqx> coprocessor*
[17:29:05] <julius_> my atmega stopped pretending being a tree and agreed to accept a program
[17:29:45] <twnqx> hm
[17:30:05] <twnqx> the interface actually looks like it could be used with the external memory interface of the megas without much work
[17:30:22] <twnqx> i... i wonder if i should really attempt this
[17:30:32] <julius_> http://pastebin.ca/3375797 <- in this code, how long is the sleep time of the timer? should i be able to see a led flashing?
[17:30:38] <twnqx> powering up a chip that's almost as old as myself
[17:31:13] <julius_> oh wait, the internal /8 is active
[17:35:16] <julius_> looks like theres a loose wire, keeps working and not
[17:38:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> twnqx, it should be usable with minimal interfacing to the atmega128 or atmega8515 external memory interface.
[17:41:22] <slaterr> klh
[17:43:16] <slaterr> what about detecting a phone call with a mcu connected to a stripped off cellphone? just sensing current over two contacts? change in resistance? or am i day dreaming
[17:43:58] <julius_> the phone got a speaker?
[17:44:25] <julius_> if that thing is powered by 5v/3.3v you could use that as a logic 1
[17:44:34] <slaterr> nice idea
[17:45:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> often there is an LED that comes on when the phone rings or is opened or such.
[17:59:19] <julius_> all those little screws...they really make you work if you want the motor out of a cdrom
[17:59:55] <slaterr> get a laser too
[18:02:13] <julius_> true, there is one
[18:02:46] <julius_> is there a "default" pin layout for to-220 cases for mosfets? in this datasheet:
http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irf3205.pdf
[18:02:59] <julius_> there seems to be no indication of what pin does what
[18:03:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> default.
[18:03:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah, right.
[18:03:29] <julius_> thats what i thought
[18:04:52] <lorenzo> julius_: page 8 of 9
[18:04:57] <lorenzo> "lead assignments"
[18:05:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> just got there myself.
[18:05:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> 1-gate, 2-drain, 3-source, 4-drain....
[18:05:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> its in there.
[18:05:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's in there...
[18:07:06] <julius_> ah yes, there it is
[18:07:20] <julius_> that belongs on the first page
[18:08:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> not necessarily.
[18:08:40] <julius_> thats one information you need, no matter what
[18:09:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> so, read the whole datasheet.
[18:09:53] <lorenzo> be kind to each other ;o
[18:10:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> naaa.
[18:10:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> kindness is a weakness.
[18:10:24] <julius_> this is just fun
[18:10:30] <julius_> i need to vent, sometimes
[18:11:56] <julius_> anyway, that thing got Vgs 2-4v - does this indicate a TTL Mosfet? i dont think so, the conditions after that say: Id = 250ua - so it wont go into saturation at 4v?
[18:12:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm considering duplicating the apollo guidance computer on an avr and tying it to kerbal space program..
[18:12:59] <julius_> Lambda_Aurigae, where did you get the original code?
[18:13:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> julius_, I haven't yet but I am sure it is available somewhere.
[18:14:33] <julius_> uh, look at the time
[18:14:37] <julius_> Lambda_Aurigae, good luck
[18:14:39] <julius_> and good night
[18:14:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> thanks.
[18:14:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's just a quirky idea I just had.
[18:14:54] <lorenzo> julius_: ##electronics might be a better place for mosfet questions
[18:15:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> lorenzo, ummm...##electronics is a good place for questions?
[18:15:28] <lorenzo> plenty of analog guys in there who've helped me many times
[18:15:30] <lorenzo> so.. I guess so
[18:15:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> last time I was in there it was all just bickering.
[18:17:11] <lorenzo> Lambda_Aurigae: nah, that's nothing compared to what goes on in ##networking
[18:17:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> hehe.
[18:26:25] <slaterr> ##c is the worst
[18:57:24] <phinxy> how much spacing between the edge and a pin is enough for a 1.6mm thick PCB?
http://imgur.com/cQ8e4Oy
[18:58:11] <phinxy> and how does the manufacturer know where the layout actually is? do they open the file and check for the square ive laid out?
[18:59:19] <Tom_itx> that looks like a good waste of board space
[18:59:41] <phinxy> i just started!
[19:00:13] <Tom_itx> you want an outline layer defined for the board perimeter
[19:00:31] <Tom_itx> in eagle it's layer 20 iirc
[19:01:00] <phinxy> Does it need to be a square?
[19:27:49] <Tom_itx> no
[19:28:14] <Tom_itx> it may depend on the cheap deal you get from a board house though
[19:28:24] <Tom_itx> they may put restrictions on the 'deal' boards
[19:29:58] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/new_batch/DSC_0001.JPG
[19:30:04] <Tom_itx> those are 2 different shapes i had done
[19:30:13] <Tom_itx> i had them left on the pannels
[19:40:34] <Evidlo> One day I want to make a 1" wide pcb that is 8 feet long
[19:40:57] <Evidlo> how much were those?
[19:52:01] <lorenzo> btw I sohuld make some boards for attiny4313
[20:26:42] <phinxy> why arent you allowed to connect pads to copper traces by default in KiCAD? seems like a big noob-trap. How do you make them connect?
[22:19:44] <Tom_itx> Evidlo you won't be able to do that
[22:19:55] <Tom_itx> the board material is 3' x 4'
[23:09:08] * flyback bites Tom_itx
[23:09:29] <flyback> well theBear all it took was jerking my arm back after burning finger on bulb fixing the garage door opener
[23:09:37] <flyback> and my arm is back to 1 month ago after the fall pain
[23:09:39] <flyback> fuck me :/
[23:13:48] <theBear> if it makes yer feel better both of mine been on the verge of slipping out for weeks now, and i bound to do something silly or even not silly and have one go all floppy and horrible looking any day now.... sure, "hyperflexible" sounds like some kinda superhero thing, but it ain't as special as all that
[23:14:48] <flyback> I love my 200w "personal heater"
[23:15:01] <flyback> uses a 120v 200w ptc element and a 12vdc fan inside
[23:15:17] <flyback> I strapped one to a fireproof piece of rock and use it on my bed to deal with chronic pain issues
[23:15:29] <flyback> pretty much wore it out though need to order a new one
[23:15:52] <flyback> ill save the old one and reuse it as a pcb pre heater or something
[23:21:03] <flyback> man I was starting to get excited at trying some ee projects again with the new solder gear but fuck that
[23:21:05] <flyback> :/
[23:25:38] <flyback> hey guys
[23:25:53] <flyback> does kynar wire come in braided or does it have another name then
[23:26:10] <flyback> it's the only thing that I found that doesn't die when soldered
