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[06:15:37] <wondiws> hi all
[06:49:06] <cehteh> anyone of you know if gcc accesses bitfields with sbi?
[06:50:13] <theBear> i know all the words in that question
[06:51:22] <cehteh> :D
[06:51:28] <cehteh> ok does not .. fuu
[06:53:10] <theBear> aww, at least it made yer smile
[06:53:52] <theBear> is this the right channel ? most times gcc re: avr isn't that far over my head
[06:57:44] <megal0maniac> I'M IN 'MURIKA!
[06:57:59] <megal0maniac> Jartza: you come right?
[06:58:11] <megal0maniac> with hv tpi
[07:17:43] <wondiws> I would like to experiment with VGA or composite output. I already succesfully had VGA out on my Arduino Uno, printing text. Which is easier to implement, composite, or VGA?
[07:17:54] <wondiws> which uses less calculations?
[07:18:24] <theBear> vga for sure
[07:18:35] <theBear> well, at least for colour
[07:18:42] <theBear> b+w comp is about the same
[07:18:48] <theBear> afaik
[07:19:18] <wondiws> theBear, I'll begin with b+w anyway ;)
[07:19:50] <wondiws> is it also possible to achieve VGA or composite output on an ATmega32 clocked at 8 MHz?
[07:20:31] <theBear> err, whaddyou think a uno is ?
[07:21:11] <wondiws> theBear, Uno is 328p at 16MHz
[07:22:06] <theBear> oh, heh, howbout that... well i dunno, pfft, probly... vga you only gotta do what,pfft, all i can remember today is 32ish khz
[07:22:39] <theBear> but it sounds likely... question is how much sparetime you got to give it anything useful to display
[07:51:26] <Jartza> megal0maniac: RikusW mentioned you had a way to get HV TPI working with U2S
[07:51:27] <Jartza> :)
[07:52:25] <Jartza> wondiws: I have VGA with attiny85 :)
[07:52:48] <Jartza> wondiws:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1QWNDck0yU
[07:52:58] <wondiws> Jartza, question is: what is the clockrate? ;)
[07:52:59] <Jartza> whichever you want to try, use external clock
[07:53:06] <Jartza> that attiny85 runs @20MHz
[07:53:30] <Jartza> VGA (640x480@60Hz) has pixel clock of ~25.2MHz, so you're not going to get full resolution anyway
[07:54:03] <wondiws> Jartza, oh, you're from Finland?
[07:54:06] <Jartza> yes
[07:54:26] <wondiws> I couldn't figure out you're name origin ;)
[07:54:32] <Jartza> heh
[07:54:45] <Jartza> Tulilahti, directly translated would be "Firebay"
[07:54:53] <Jartza> of "Bay of Fire"
[07:55:27] <wondiws> Jartza, cool man ;)
[07:56:26] <Jartza> and Jari is short form of Jalmari, which then again comes from ancient scandinavian language word Hjalmar, which means "Soldier with Helmet"
[07:56:29] <Jartza> :)
[07:56:44] <Jartza> anyhow
[07:56:45] <Jartza> https://github.com/Jartza/octapentaveega
[07:58:04] <Jartza> yes, making attiny85 to generate VGA is stupid, that's why I had so much fun :D
[12:18:42] <tpw_rules> wait where did you get enough pins
[12:18:55] <tpw_rules> i guess you're just tying one pin to R,G,B?
[12:19:06] <tpw_rules> how do you program it
[12:19:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> tpw_rules, the octapentaveega is one color per chip.
[12:19:43] <tpw_rules> i did a project like that and i got like a 6p2t switch to switch the programming lines and the project lines
[12:19:58] <tpw_rules> oh i see i should have clicked
[12:20:04] <tpw_rules> last i knew it was B&W only
[12:20:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> for RGB you use 3 chips...8 colors.
[12:20:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> for mono you just use 1 chip.
[12:20:40] <tpw_rules> sounds like propeller programming
[12:21:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's more like hacking galore.
[12:21:13] <tpw_rules> i mean using multiple chips instead of cores
[12:21:23] <tpw_rules> you still have to deal with the problems of synchronization and all that jazz
[12:21:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> he bitbangs a 9600 bps usart while using the USI to generate the video signal.
[12:21:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> run the same exact code on all 3 chips...with one central clock.
[12:21:39] <Jartza> yeah
[12:21:55] <Jartza> yeppers
[12:22:05] <Jartza> which gets you 64x64 pixels with 8 colors :)
[12:24:49] <tpw_rules> i do happen to have 3 attiny85s
[12:25:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's a nifty little toy and an actual useful project.
[12:25:26] <Jartza> tpw_rules: if you also have 20MHz oscillator, you could try that out :)
[12:25:36] <tpw_rules> i have a way to generate it
[12:33:04] <Jartza> mmkay
[13:24:12] <Martin90> hmm can we call FreeRTOS framewrok ?
[14:40:27] <studdentt> hi, what is the best development setup for avr with linux ?
[14:40:36] <studdentt> i wasgoing for eclipse + avrdude
[14:41:04] <studdentt> eclipse to write c code and generate .hex file and avrdude to program the device
[15:19:55] <Xark> studdentt: That is doable. Pretty much any editor or IDE that can call avr-gcc.
[15:20:37] <Xark> studdentt: I apologize for Instructables, but this may be helpful
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-get-started-with-Eclipse-and-AVR/?ALLSTEPS
[15:20:39] <Jartza> I use sublime text with some scripts
[15:21:14] <Xark> Hmm, this link may be better
http://interactive-matter.eu/how-to/developing-software-for-the-atmel-avr-with-avr-eclipse-avr-gcc-avrdude/
[15:21:52] <Xark> Jartza: Do you use gas or avra assembler?
[15:22:09] <Jartza> depends
[15:22:30] <Jartza> if I know it's going to be all asm, then avra
[15:23:06] <Jartza> but for mostly c with some asm, then gnu
[15:25:49] <Xark> Makes some sense. No real complaints with gas though.
[15:29:11] <Xark> (Well, okay, on ARM, gas assembles all kinds of illegal garbage without error - that sucked). :)
[15:57:03] <studdentt> Xark : thanks, i decided to go full command line instead. coudlnt get eclipse to work quickly
[15:57:31] <Xark> studdentt: Since no debugging anyways (without more config pain), that seems reasonable.
[16:39:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> studdentt, never bothered with eclipse myself.
[16:40:13] <Jartza> eclipse... trying to avoid as long as possible
[16:40:24] <theBear> eclipse is the java one innit ? that by definition would make it impossible to work quickly <grin>
[16:40:51] <theBear> on the rare occasion i wanted to get fancy kdevelop and err, one with a name like bluefish or something have been acceptable
[16:43:21] <Xark> theBear: It is not too bad on a decent PC, but I would not call it "snappy".
[16:44:10] <Jartza> I've used code::blocks if I needed ide
[16:44:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> kate or gedit works for a gui editor.
[16:45:19] <Jartza> don't know a reason why it wouldn't work with avr
[16:45:33] <Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: or sublime text :)
[16:46:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> never used that one but I've seen it before.
[16:47:13] <Xark> Nagware. :)
[17:14:38] <Yoduza> best shop in EU for avr ?
[17:35:38] <studdentt> Xark: there must be a debugger that shows in real time registers value that are changing!
[17:35:48] <studdentt> Xark: but no need for that at the moment
[17:36:08] <studdentt> Lambda_Aurigae: its good actually
[17:37:06] <studdentt> Lambda_Aurigae: for some reason i can't install it with ubuntu 14.04 LTS; Java is installed, the java dev-kit too but when eclipse starts, that splash screen shows up and that's it
[17:38:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> I avoid eclipse..never got it to work right.
[17:38:27] <Xark> studdentt: Sure there is Atmel ICE (but may be windows only). There is also AVRICE Linux thing...
[17:38:41] <Yoduza> jtag debugger ?
[17:39:11] <Xark> Yoduza: Basically (but SWD technically, I think).
[17:39:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> avr-gdb works with jtag ice.
[17:39:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> never used that myself either.
[17:40:01] <Yoduza> usb blaster ?
[17:40:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> my debugging consists of LEDs and serial comms.
[17:41:11] <LeoNerd> Yup :)
[17:41:25] <Yoduza> i buy every my avr chips on aliexpress
[17:41:32] <LeoNerd> In programming, they often say the best debugger is the well-placed print statement. For me I find an LED on a spare GPIO line can do that well
[17:41:34] <Xark> Yoduza: Again similar, but those are usually for Altera CPLD/FPGA. :)
[17:43:51] <Yoduza> where is best shop(prices,delivery) in EU for avr ?
[17:45:04] <studdentt> Lambda_Aurigae: me too :D
[17:47:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> and, in my not so humble opinion, the best debugging is to actually know and understand your code.
[17:52:06] <Xark> Lambda_Aurigae: I have used the simulator in Atmel Studio to test non-I/O based code (like my 6502 emulator). It has handy "cycle count" and stuff when squeezing performance that is handy. I have an ICE thing, but haven't really needed it...
[18:04:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> to each their own and the proper tool for the job and all that.
[18:05:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> something else that's fun for debugging is single stepping or ultra slow clock for the AVR.
[18:05:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> build a clock source that allows you to run down to 1Hz and start/stop it with a button or three.
[18:06:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> not so good for things like i2c(twi) or usart comms..but when working with spi it works well and with other gpio stuff is great.
[18:06:48] <Jartza> well
[18:07:25] <Jartza> Xark: oh, I even have license for sublime
[18:07:39] <Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: going to try vga with attiny5 :D
[18:07:44] <tpw_rules> i used simavr to test i/o code by recording the inputs with my logic analyzer
[18:07:46] <Jartza> that's NOT going to be useful
[18:07:49] <Jartza> just some stupid test
[18:08:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> Jartza, kewl....not gonna be able to do the uart thingie on it I bet?
[18:08:14] <Jartza> nope
[18:08:18] <Jartza> not even trying
[18:08:22] <tpw_rules> it has 32 bytes of ram
[18:08:24] <Jartza> not many pins
[18:08:25] <tpw_rules> ie the 32 registers
[18:08:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> not enough i/o.
[18:08:28] <tpw_rules> what are you going to display
[18:08:38] <Jartza> no idea
[18:08:39] <tpw_rules> do a demo like lft
[18:08:50] <Jartza> 512 bytes of flash
[18:08:57] <Jartza> i.e. 256 asm instructions
[18:09:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> that going to be enough to do anything?
[18:09:17] <tpw_rules> you could generate the timings
[18:09:22] <tpw_rules> but like nothing else
[18:09:44] <Jartza> well. I have 6 pins
[18:09:45] <tpw_rules> you have exactly one input pin
[18:09:49] <tpw_rules> make it change between black and white?
[18:10:02] <Jartza> if I disable reset, then 4 gpio
[18:10:12] <Jartza> but I guess I still need external clock, making it 3
[18:10:13] <tpw_rules> which makes programming them a royal pain
[18:10:32] <Jartza> why
[18:10:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> HVSP works fine.
[18:10:43] <Jartza> doesn't
[18:10:46] <tpw_rules> yeah but that's annoying
[18:10:48] <Jartza> with tese
[18:10:49] <Xark> Jartza: Can you save a pin using an oscillator vs xtal?
[18:10:52] <Jartza> these use TPI
[18:10:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> aahh.
[18:11:01] <Jartza> Xark: of course oscillator
[18:11:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> different aminal completely.
[18:11:14] <Jartza> HV TPI is actually very simple
[18:11:14] <tpw_rules> i think you'll have to make it drive hsync and vsync and then use a switch to control the color
[18:11:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> Xark, that's how he clocks the octapentaveega already.
[18:11:23] <tpw_rules> are these recent?
[18:11:32] <tpw_rules> attiny5s
[18:11:33] <Jartza> TPI pulls reset low while flashing
[18:11:39] <Jartza> HV TPI pulls reset to +12v while flashing
[18:11:41] <Xark> Right. makes sense when pin-limited.
[18:11:49] <Jartza> but other than that, it's same protocol
[18:11:55] <Jartza> so I just plugged st662 on breadboard
[18:12:07] <Jartza> pulled reset through that
[18:12:10] <Jartza> -> hv tpi
[18:12:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> kewl.
[18:12:22] <tpw_rules> oh it has a real adc
[18:12:29] <LeoNerd> Mmm good ol' ST622
[18:12:30] <tpw_rules> that could be cool
[18:12:33] <LeoNerd> Er.. 662.
[18:12:48] <LeoNerd> I use the slightly cheaper but mostly equivalent LTC1262
[18:12:57] <Xark> Jartza: I went the other way and got an ATTiny84 (luxurious 14-pin package). :)
[18:13:07] <Jartza> tpw_rules: yes, real ADC. I would've used attiny4, but got these for free
[18:13:15] <tpw_rules> does the 4 not have it?
[18:13:16] <Jartza> Xark: I have plenty of them too :)
[18:13:28] <tpw_rules> i think you're gonna have to use the adc to do any kind of interesting output
[18:13:29] <Jartza> tpw_rules: attiny5 is attiny4 + adc
[18:13:34] <tpw_rules> oh okay
[18:13:35] <Jartza> just like attiny10 is attiny9 + adc
[18:13:39] <tpw_rules> i'd hook the adc up to the color
[18:13:45] <tpw_rules> wait fuck
[18:13:51] <Jartza> why? :D
[18:13:54] <tpw_rules> what is AC
[18:13:58] <Jartza> dac would be useful but not with tiny
[18:14:02] <tpw_rules> yezh that's what i meant
[18:14:06] <tpw_rules> i thought that's what it was
[18:14:08] <theBear> lol
[18:14:12] <theBear> ac is wiggly
[18:14:13] <Jartza> oh. that WOULD be cool
[18:14:23] <Jartza> but no.
[18:14:23] <tpw_rules> where does it get 8 inputs from if it has a total of 1.3 pins
[18:14:37] <Jartza> heh
[18:15:11] <Jartza> oh wait. it can measure bandgap, vcc and so on...
[18:15:17] <theBear> i spose it alternates quickly from one pin to itself, 8 times, then repeats <grin>
[18:16:10] <tpw_rules> or is that an error on the datasheet
[18:16:20] <tpw_rules> cause it can't
[18:16:31] <Jartza> tpw_rules: but yea, thought about driving syncs as "composite sync"
[18:16:40] <Jartza> even the latest vga monitors seem to support that
[18:16:48] <Jartza> so hsync + vsync in single pin
[18:16:51] <tpw_rules> do apple 2 colors
[18:16:53] <tpw_rules> purple and green
[18:17:19] <Jartza> maybe overclock this to 20MHz?
[18:17:30] <Jartza> I have only 8MHz, 16Mhz and 20Mhz oscillators
[18:17:43] <Jartza> I bet 16Mhz would be easy, 20MHz maybe
[18:18:13] <theBear> do some rough math
[18:18:38] <Jartza> I could just try with 8MHz first
[18:18:43] <theBear> workout how many cycles(instructions, usually <grin>>) between pixels, that kinda thing
[18:18:47] <theBear> or that
[18:18:49] <Jartza> anyways with 32 bytes of ram... not much to show :D
[18:19:12] <Jartza> maybe something like 4x4 pixels
[18:19:17] <Jartza> :D
[18:20:14] <Jartza> or 8x4 pixels
[18:20:22] <Jartza> anyway, it's silly
[18:20:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> 8 bytes, 8 bits per byte, 8x8 pixels?
[18:20:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> you can display one character at a time.
[18:20:54] <Jartza> and store the font where? :)
[18:21:26] <Xark> EEPROM! :D
[18:21:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's gonna be tight.
[18:21:44] * theBear resists saying the thing he says
[18:21:53] <theBear> so much will power !
[18:22:07] <theBear> gotta draw the line somewhere in regards to taste
[18:22:20] <Xark> theBear: :)
[18:22:27] <theBear> but yeah, lookup tables are good, wherever they live
[18:22:54] <theBear> and you get the fun of drawing fonts in something silly like 0/1's in yer program, whole alphabets of the damned things :)
[18:24:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> Jartza, guessing no ansi escape codes on this one, eh?
[18:24:44] <Jartza> nope
[18:25:13] <theBear> aww, but, pretty colours ! crappy pictures and boxes made of little sections of ansi pipe :(
[18:25:22] <Jartza> theBear: well, 32x16 characters on attiny85... :P
[18:25:36] <Jartza> so need better challenge
[18:26:27] <Jartza> I mean, 32x16 characters on vga screen + uart + ansi escape parsing
[18:26:41] <Jartza> and split-screen graphics mode
[18:27:14] <Jartza> ohh... did I show the split-screen?
[18:27:17] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxbXlTZUN5QUgzYzQ/view
[18:28:12] <fobboyandy> is that vga?
[18:28:18] <Jartza> yes
[18:28:42] <Jartza> fobboyandy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1QWNDck0yU
[18:30:05] <fobboyandy> is the attiny all that's needed? or do you need more external hardware to control the vga?
[18:30:25] <Jartza> oscillator
[18:30:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> 3 attiny85 chips and an external 20MHz oscillator.
[18:30:28] <Jartza> plus attiny85
[18:30:35] <Jartza> for black'n'white
[18:30:40] <Jartza> for that 8-color version, 3 attiny85s
[18:30:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> 1 attiny85 for b&w
[18:31:16] <Jartza> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97m79zcx0Dk
[18:31:25] <Jartza> there's BW version showing the graphics / text split screen :)
[18:31:51] <Jartza> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iC2AHI5caI
[18:31:57] <Jartza> and BW version scrolling horizontally
[18:32:16] <Jartza> fobboyandy:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxaFFxam1uVW05NlE/view
[18:32:22] <Jartza> PCB for black'n'white version
[18:32:56] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxRXVzSUNCT1h2NHM/view
[18:32:58] <fobboyandy> lemme upload something i've been working on
[18:32:59] <Jartza> PCB for 8-color version
[18:33:14] <Jartza> https://github.com/Jartza/octapentaveega
[18:33:22] <Jartza> code + schematic + board files there
[18:33:38] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxQ1luNFhwcXl3QjA/view
[18:33:40] <Jartza> here's the font
[18:33:40] <fobboyandy> how do you reprogram the uC if you needed to?
[18:33:47] <fobboyandy> it's soldered on
[18:33:58] <Jartza> it has programming pads on other side of the board
[18:34:13] <Jartza> the 3-chip version shows it nicely
[18:34:14] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxX2VmQmw3aXhWUDA/view
[18:34:15] <Jartza> there
[18:34:42] <Jartza> I just push the programming adapter there
[18:35:44] <fobboyandy> which website do you use to make your pcb?
[18:36:09] <Jartza> website?
[18:36:12] <fobboyandy> i mean which company
[18:36:13] <fobboyandy> sorry
[18:36:19] <Jartza> ahh. /join #hackvana
[18:36:20] <Jartza> :)
[18:36:33] <Jartza> friendly community there
[18:37:14] <Jartza> http://www.hackvana.com/guide
[18:37:32] <Tom_itx> he still sellin boards?
[18:37:45] <Jartza> yes
[18:38:31] <fobboyandy> where are they located? UK?
[18:38:51] <Jartza> fobboyandy:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxdmZkYlpaVHNHN2s/view
[18:39:09] <Jartza> fobboyandy:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxaXBLQzU2REszNDQ/view
[18:39:10] <fobboyandy> am looking at it haha trying to find it
[18:39:40] <Tom_itx> what's it do?
[18:39:51] <Jartza> that's the programming adapter
[18:40:05] <Jartza> staggered spring contacts and 2 pins for alignment
[18:40:14] <Jartza> just press it gently to board and hold it there while programming
[18:40:14] <Tom_itx> ok
[18:40:31] <Jartza> no need to solder connectors to PCB, just put pads and 2 holes
[18:40:39] <Jartza> avx 9188
[18:41:11] <Jartza> fobboyandy: hackvana is australian who gets the boards made in china
[18:41:37] <Tom_itx> good guy
[18:43:18] <Jartza> anyhow. octapentaveega was fun
[18:43:31] <Jartza> and it became even somehow useful
[18:43:36] <Jartza> now it's time for silly
[18:43:38] <Jartza> hence attiny5
[18:44:42] <Jartza> I know I can at least get it to sync the monitor and display something
[18:44:52] <Jartza> but 256 asm opcodes is pretty tight still
[18:47:40] <fobboyandy> what other cool projects do you have that we can see :D
[18:48:16] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/index.php
[18:48:28] <Tom_itx> i've done a few
[18:48:32] <Tom_itx> nothing recent
[18:49:56] <Tom_itx> Jartza did you do yours in asm?
[18:49:59] <Tom_itx> or c
[18:50:24] <Tom_itx> guess you just answered that ehh
[18:51:47] <fobboyandy> sweet website
[18:51:58] <fobboyandy> cool projects tom
[18:52:54] <Jartza> Tom_itx: well that octapentaveega is asm
[18:52:59] <Jartza> https://github.com/Jartza/octapentaveega
[18:53:03] <Jartza> also C projects
[18:53:39] <Jartza> fobboyandy:
http://labs.rakettitiede.com/12kbps-simple-audio-data-transfer-for-avr/
[18:53:45] <Jartza> one project I think is also cool :)
[18:54:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> Jartza, wireless audio feed from pc to monitor by combining the two projects!
[18:54:54] <Jartza> :)
[18:55:05] <Jartza> that protocol works over FM radio too
[18:56:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> what about AM radio?
[18:58:49] <Jartza> no idea :D
[18:58:52] <Jartza> probably not
[18:59:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> crystal radio receiver and an avr to generate an am signal.
[18:59:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've done that just for the fun of it.
[18:59:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> got a full meter range with it.
[19:00:18] <Jartza> hehe
[19:00:44] <Jartza> yeah, I used commercial fm transmitter (meant for playing your music from your car stereo through FM)
[19:00:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> used an ADC input and broadcast AM to both an AM radio and a crystal radio I built.
[19:01:24] <Tom_itx> what did you use for a crystal?
[19:02:03] <Tom_itx> the first one i did i used a hunk of galena
[19:02:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> I used an atmega32 running at 16MHz with a regular crystal.
[19:02:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> oh..
[19:02:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> for the radio.
[19:02:16] <Tom_itx> yeah
[19:02:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> just a germanium diode.
[19:02:37] <Tom_itx> the last one i did used that
[19:02:52] <theBear> pretty diode
[19:03:03] <theBear> smells like ... flowers
[19:03:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> not exactly tunable but at the range I was working it didn't matter.
[19:04:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> heck, I've gotten an lm741 to play AM radio...it just picked up the strongest signal.
[19:21:43] <Yoduza> avr+fpga. Samples ?
[19:22:01] <aandrew> can you think of a more generic question?
[19:22:19] <Yoduza> atmega328+cyclone4?
[19:23:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> fpslic
[19:23:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> oh...not available anymore.
[19:23:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> Yoduza, both are available as samples if you can tell a good enough story.
[19:24:26] <Yoduza> cyclone4 6k ~ $5.28 on aliexpress
[19:25:35] <aandrew> sure. how would you like to wire it up? i2c? spi is probably the easiest. uart? parallel bus?
[19:25:44] <aandrew> it's really limited by how you want to do it on the AVR
[19:25:56] <Yoduza> spi the best way
[19:26:10] <aandrew> have you used FPGAs before?
[19:26:19] <aandrew> if not you're in for a bit of a learning curve, but it's fun
[19:27:03] <Yoduza> on fpga you can make your own assembler..
[19:28:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> hmmm..
[19:28:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> now there's an idea.
[19:28:45] <Yoduza> in fpga the minimal time to execute instruction is 1/1 000 000 000 000 second
[19:28:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> how big an fpga do you need to implement avr-gcc/libc/binutils toolchain?
[19:29:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> Yoduza, that all depends on how it's configured and how fast it is clocked.
[19:30:22] <Yoduza> configured via usb blaster 4 pins and 2 pins power/ground
[19:33:35] <Jartza> whee
[19:33:38] <Jartza> got it to sync :)
[19:33:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> awesome.
[19:33:55] <Jartza> not really awesome yet
[19:34:07] <Jartza> doesn't display anythimg
[19:34:32] <Jartza> except black screen. technically that's a vga signal, yes? :)
[19:34:36] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxSFk5eVZiNTNkS2s/view
[19:34:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> yes.
[19:34:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> make it white next!
[19:34:41] <Jartza> but monitor shows that when opening the menu
[19:35:15] <Jartza> but hey
[19:35:25] <Jartza> might be able to pull off some more stuff
[19:35:36] <Jartza> there's 32 bytes of ram
[19:35:44] <Jartza> plus 16 registers
[19:35:51] <Jartza> registers r0-r15 are missing :D
[19:36:02] <Jartza> that was a bit weird
[19:36:36] <Jartza> currently running with 8MHz osc
[19:36:55] <Yoduza> mcu for vga ? Lol
[19:37:16] <Jartza> ?
[19:37:58] <Yoduza> normal guys using fpga for vga
[19:38:23] <Jartza> who ever said I'm normal?
[19:38:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> Yoduza not doing english goods.
[19:39:09] <Yoduza> :D
[19:50:47] <Jartza> LOL
[19:51:03] <Jartza> I just figured out 2 more IO-registers I can use in attiny85 :D
[19:51:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> sweet.
[19:51:13] <Jartza> SPH and SPL :P
[19:51:19] <Jartza> they are RW
[19:51:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> aahh, yes.
[19:51:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> you aren't using stack.
[19:51:29] <Jartza> yep
[19:51:36] <Jartza> can't really use it much
[19:51:58] <Casper> let's say you want to PWM 1000 RGB leds with an avr... how would you do it? :D
[19:52:26] <Jartza> I would buy ws2812b led strips or similar
[19:53:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> you could put an attiny on each one and string them together with i2c or something but you would need 4 i2c busses to cover it.
[19:54:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> that's one of those "need more info" kinda questions.
[19:55:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> https://www.pololu.com/product/2547
[19:56:11] <Casper> random led project for next year xmas stuff
[19:56:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> you could use attiny5 chip for each LED and use 1-wire protocol to talk to them.
[19:57:24] <Casper> $$$
[19:57:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> like that led strip in that link above.
[19:57:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> you are going to need a controller for each LED...or one for 3-5 LEDs depending..
[19:57:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> that LED strip has such onboard already.
[19:58:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> but is pricy.
[19:58:18] <Casper> one project is a simple "merry xmas" sign, which I don't know if I want it to be a single color, one per letter, or bundle of led or individual for some effects...
[19:58:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> you could matrix it but I would break the 1000 down into something more manageable, like 8x8 matrix...that requires a lot of wire rather than a lot of controllers though.
[19:59:07] <Jartza> I'm wondering how accurate is attinys watchdog oscillator
[19:59:11] <Jartza> that 128kHz :)
[19:59:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> Jartza, not terribly.
[19:59:25] <Jartza> darn
[19:59:34] <Jartza> could've used it to generate vsync :D
[19:59:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's an RC oscillator after all.
[19:59:53] <Jartza> yea
[19:59:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> will drift just like the main RC oscillator does.
[20:00:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> would be nice if someone put an actual crystal inside of a microcontroller
[20:00:27] <Jartza> yea
[20:00:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've suggested such to both atmel and microchip but, alas, they haven't listened to me as of yet.
[20:04:37] <aandrew> it's not something that is needed most of the time
[20:10:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> true.
[20:10:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> but would be a nifty thingie.
[20:11:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> although, microchip did implement auto tuning from USB for their new usbPIC chips.
[20:11:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> so you can do USB full speed without a crystal.
[20:12:41] <aandrew> yep
[20:12:50] <aandrew> my stalled picjug project uses that
[20:13:07] <aandrew> https://www.mixdown.ca/redmine/projects/picjug
[20:16:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> https://hackaday.io/project/6258-two-component-usb-temperature-data-logger
[20:16:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm modifying this to do much what your picjug does.
[20:16:47] <Jartza> heh
[20:16:54] <Jartza> I also tried VGA with internal oscillator
[20:17:11] <Jartza> I calibrated it using UART
[20:17:18] <Jartza> too bad it does have too much jitter
[20:17:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> Jartza, talk about a good way to see oscillator jitter, eh?
[20:17:23] <Jartza> yep
[20:17:28] <Jartza> immediately visible :P
[20:17:38] <aandrew> heh same thing
[20:18:07] <Jartza> would've been coolest, but no
[20:18:20] <Jartza> now I think the coolest would be to go to sleep :D
[20:18:26] <Jartza> almost 4am
[20:18:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> aandrew, you have code for yours out there?
[20:19:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> nevermind
[20:19:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> found it.
[20:19:20] <aandrew> no, I got the board done so I could start coding and it got completely sidelined
[20:19:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> oh.
[20:19:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> you have links.
[20:19:39] <aandrew> yes, it's just m-usb for now
[20:19:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> I tend to do code first then make a board to fit.
[20:19:48] <aandrew> I have to actually do a jtag/swd interface etc
[20:20:18] <aandrew> yeah I often do things ass-backwards
[20:20:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> I like the 1454/1455/1459 line for a small cheapy chip.
[20:20:35] <aandrew> it is a nice little device
[20:20:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've also done similar, in bits and pieces, on the pic32.
[20:20:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> the pic32mx270f256b gives me lots of room to play..and has similar no-crystal capability.
[20:20:59] <aandrew> pic32 never appealed to me, actually pics in general I find distasteful these days
[20:21:04] <aandrew> back in the day I loved PICs
[20:21:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> I like pic for one main thing...hardware usb in a dip package.
[20:21:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> several dip packages actually.
[20:21:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> the pic32mx270f256b also gives me the ability to execute code from sram.
[20:22:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> so I can make a system that is capable of loading "apps" from an sd card.
[20:22:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> put my libraries and stuff in flash and call those from the apps, making them much more compact.
[21:20:40] <Yoduza> [01:04:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> how big an fpga do you need to implement avr-gcc/libc/binutils toolchain?
[21:20:44] <Yoduza> 1000 ?
[21:21:32] <Yoduza> *1000x cyclone4 6k ?
[21:21:59] <aandrew> heh
[21:22:16] <aandrew> how much fuel do you have to add to a Toyota to make it fly?
[21:22:31] <aandrew> that's kind of analogous
[21:22:42] <aandrew> how many apples do you need ot make a lemon?
[21:24:34] <Yoduza> fpga can be usable in avr as fast register
[21:25:11] <Yoduza> fast calculator of floats also
[21:26:50] <Yoduza> which avr can transfer 16 bits via 16 pins via irq's in one time ?
[21:39:56] <MarkX> if an atmega32u4 does not have any firmware on it, it's right from digikey. if my circuit is right, should it go to bootloader when powered up?
[21:57:12] <cehteh> iirc no
[21:57:28] <cehteh> avrs come wiithout bootloader
[21:58:06] <cehteh> completely empty, internal RC Osc enabled, clkdiv/8
[21:58:13] <MarkX> this one has a bootloader
[21:58:16] <MarkX> the datasheet says so
[21:58:54] <cehteh> ok
[21:59:46] <cehteh> thats new to me
[22:00:34] <MarkX> http://www.atmel.com/images/atmel-7766-8-bit-avr-atmega16u4-32u4_datasheet.pdf
[22:00:35] <MarkX> page 422
[22:01:51] <cehteh> arts using external XTAL clock are pre-programed with a default USB bootloader
[22:01:52] <cehteh> ic
[22:02:39] <cehteh> so you have external xtal hooked up?
[22:02:44] <MarkX> yep
[22:02:57] <MarkX> and the hardware boot enable fuse is factory programmed
[22:03:39] <Yoduza> hmm
[22:03:57] <MarkX> https://www.dropbox.com/s/71nu5jquaby74y0/whole.jpg?dl=0
[22:04:02] <MarkX> there is the circuit
[22:04:24] <MarkX> the fuse is okay
[22:04:31] <MarkX> i'm getting proper 5v
[22:04:47] <MarkX> should there be any voltage across the xtal?
[22:05:17] <cehteh> a/c
[22:05:28] <cehteh> xtal freq
[22:05:42] <MarkX> hmm
[22:05:48] <MarkX> let me try measuring it
[22:05:58] <cehteh> but measuring it might already affect the frequency
[22:06:14] <cehteh> you haven an oscilliscope?
[22:07:09] <MarkX> no
[22:07:14] <MarkX> i was gonna measure with multimeter
[22:07:50] <Thrashbarg> if you're lucky you can measure the XTAL1 pin (output) to see if it's at about 2.5V but chances are the capacitance from the multimeter will dampen the crystal and stop it
[22:08:29] <MarkX> its a crap meter too hahhaha
[22:08:33] <Thrashbarg> heh
[22:08:42] <MarkX> let me try pin1 to gnd
[22:08:51] <Thrashbarg> yea
[22:09:33] <Thrashbarg> if I want to see if a crystal is working I use a logic probe, or connect the output to the crystal to a 74HC04 buffer and measure that
[22:09:46] <Thrashbarg> buffer/inverter
[22:10:00] <MarkX> welp
[22:10:02] <MarkX> now i see voltage
[22:10:07] <MarkX> 0.12V
[22:10:13] <cehteh> chances that an xtal is not working are pretty small
[22:10:19] <Thrashbarg> yeah
[22:10:26] <Thrashbarg> usually it's a wiring problem
[22:10:39] <Thrashbarg> crystals are pretty unlikely to fail
[22:10:50] <Thrashbarg> except when they've been beaten too hard I guess
[22:11:04] <cehteh> drop from orbit onto concrete floor :D
[22:11:13] <Thrashbarg> not heavy enough to cause damage :P
[22:11:16] <MarkX> .... my meter is showing -7.3VDC
[22:11:22] <MarkX> its not even touching anything
[22:11:23] <MarkX> kill me
[22:11:31] <Thrashbarg> ambient voltage
[22:11:40] <cehteh> short the probes
[22:11:44] <Thrashbarg> short the pins out and see if it's 0V
[22:11:45] <Thrashbarg> heh
[22:11:47] <cehteh> that should give 0V
[22:12:06] <MarkX> lol
[22:12:08] <cehteh> :D
[22:12:11] <MarkX> just turned it off and on
[22:12:16] <MarkX> okay so xtal is good
[22:12:20] <MarkX> voltage is right so far
[22:12:22] <cehteh> lesson 1: how to use dmm
[22:13:07] <MarkX> the HWBE fuse is factory set, i should be able to just plug in and detect it
[22:13:40] <cehteh> i dont know much about the usb bootloader
[22:14:21] <cehteh> how do you activate it? do you need to pull any pins to some level? send something within some time? keep reset low? .. whatever
[22:14:27] <MarkX> something else must be wrong
[22:14:48] <MarkX> uh there is a lot of mention about port E bit 2
[22:15:39] <MarkX> When ALE/HWB pin is ‘0’ during reset rising edge, the reset vector will be set as the Boot Loader
[22:15:39] <MarkX> Reset address and the Boot Loader will be executed
[22:15:43] <MarkX> HWB is active low
[22:16:37] <MarkX> i have it tied directly to ground
[22:24:57] <MarkX> any suggestions where i can look for this issue?
