#avr | Logs for 2015-12-06

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[07:02:09] <phinxy> have anyone here played the programming game TIS-100? is there anything that could makes an atmega or xmega run similarly? like an simple OS with simulated threading
[07:18:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> never heard of it.
[07:19:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> but, I'm sure one could write an emulator for the avr.
[07:20:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> it looks like an fpga on steroids....
[07:20:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> or a bunch of interlocked small microcontrollers.
[07:21:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> I can't say for sure as the manuals are not directly available unless you get the game.
[07:21:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> I could see doing that with a bunch of attiny chips..
[07:22:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> like, attiny2313 chips to get all the i/o needed for the multiple interconnects.
[07:22:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> to do it on one chip I would say the atmega1284p could handle a subset of it at least.
[07:27:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.gizmag.com/cobalt-valkyrie-modern-private-aircraft/40405/?li_source=LI&li_medium=default-widget
[07:27:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> oops.
[07:27:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> wrong channel
[08:02:52] <phinxy> Lambda_Aurgiae an array of attinys sounds intriguing
[08:04:04] <phinxy> basically the game emulatates a couple processors interconnected. each cpu-node only haves one integer + a swap to make things harder
[08:12:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> so shouldn't be difficult to write such an emulator to run on one processor,,even like an atmega328p
[08:12:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> from the little video on the webpage it looked like more than just a couple...more like 9 to 16 or more processors.
[08:22:08] <nuxil> hello
[08:22:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> hello nuxil
[08:23:06] <nuxil> i wrote my 1st test code for my ATiny85. but it aint working correctly.
[08:23:07] <nuxil> http://pastebin.com/KbLbEMYV
[08:23:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> what can we confuse you on today?
[08:23:24] <nuxil> my lef is suppose to blink the number of time i is. but it aint doing that
[08:23:29] <nuxil> *led
[08:23:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> what does it do?
[08:23:55] <nuxil> idea?
[08:24:12] <nuxil> its just blinks.. stops 1 sec.. blinks
[08:24:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup..that's what the code says.
[08:24:29] <nuxil> instead of blinking like. 1 time.,. sleep 1 sec.. blink 2 times.
[08:24:36] <nuxil> so on
[08:24:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> loop 100 times.
[08:24:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> delay 1 second
[08:25:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> internal loop does a bunch of fast blinks,,starting with 1 then up to 100
[08:25:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> 10ms is really fast.
[08:25:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> kick those 10 ms delays up to 100 and see what happens.
[08:26:19] <nuxil> nop.
[08:26:33] <nuxil> still just a steady 1 blink.. 1 sec pause.
[08:26:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> and at the end put a while(1); so you get an infinite loop.
[08:26:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> outside the for loop but inside main.
[08:27:08] <nuxil> it seems like it dosent do the 2nd forloop
[08:27:17] <nuxil> it seems like its always stuck on 1
[08:27:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> move your unsigned int n; up by the unsingned int i; also....not that that should matter much, but,,,,
[08:28:07] <nuxil> lemme trt
[08:28:10] <nuxil> *try
[08:29:05] <nuxil> no. that didnt help
[08:29:12] <nuxil> hmm.
[08:29:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> and you are reloading this to the chip after compiling?
[08:29:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> seems that's going awfully fast.
[08:29:48] <nuxil> yea. im reloading.
[08:29:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> OOPS!
[08:29:54] <nuxil> *uploading
[08:29:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> I see your problem
[08:30:03] <nuxil> where is it ?
[08:30:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> for ( n = 0; n <= i ; n++);
[08:30:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> what is extra on this line?
[08:30:35] <nuxil> oh
[08:30:36] <nuxil> lol
[08:30:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> by putting the ; in there, it loops so many times then goes on to the next {} block
[08:30:55] <nuxil> yeah.. i didnt see that one :D
[08:31:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> kinda like that while(1);
[08:31:03] <nuxil> thanks..
[08:31:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> if you don't want the chip to go into a reset mode and restart your program, put the while(1); at the end of the main()
[08:31:40] <nuxil> awesome.. it works now :)
[08:32:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> I would use uint8_t for the variables there as well...so long as you are under 256 for your loops.
[08:32:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> rather than unsigned int.
[08:32:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> that forces it to a single byte
[08:32:47] <nuxil> dat true
[08:32:59] <nuxil> but this was just my 1st test code
[08:33:01] <nuxil> made myself a amtel ATiny85 eeprom buruner using the raspberry pi :D
[08:33:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/group__avr__stdint.html
[08:33:47] * nuxil bookmarks
[08:34:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> standard int is 16 bits...so 2 bytes....
[08:35:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> by using uint8_t you get a single byte,,,makes the code smaller, more efficient, and uses less ram to boot.
[08:35:21] <nuxil> yeah..
[08:35:29] <nuxil> thanks for that tip :)
[08:35:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> is always best to use the standard integer types from that page.
[08:35:50] <nuxil> guess space matters on these chips
[08:35:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> that way you know exactly how much ram a variable takes.
[08:36:20] <nuxil> will start to do that
[08:36:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> reading through the avr-libc users manual is a good thing to do overall too.
[08:36:53] <nuxil> indeed
[08:37:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> lots of good info in there that will eliminate at least half the questions I've seen asked in here...if not more.
[08:37:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've watched it grow over the last 13 years or so.
[08:38:30] <nuxil> omg. i think im about to get a epileptic seasure form this led blinking ;p
[08:39:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> "an epileptic seizure"
[08:46:46] <apo_> 15:05:55 < Lambda_Aurigae> what is extra on this line?
[08:46:55] <apo_> the loop. Just set n=i+1;
[08:46:56] <apo_> =P
[08:50:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> apo_, he wants it to loop 1 time,,then 2 times,,,then 3 times....inside the main loop.
[09:59:33] <Jartza> https://www.facebook.com/ClubForFive/videos/10153499995947798/
[10:00:12] <Jartza> happy Finland's Independence Day
[10:00:15] <Jartza> :)
[10:09:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> woohoo! Let's all have beer for breakfast!
[10:09:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> oh, wait, that's australia.
[10:09:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> what do Finns do for fun anyhow?
[10:20:41] <apo_> hard liquor, probably =P
[10:21:58] <inkjetunito> Jartza: iirc finland isn't independent since 2009
[10:25:20] <inkjetunito> in 2017, we'll get to celebrate 20 years of 8-bit AVR though :)
[10:34:03] <Tom_itx> what was the first?
[10:34:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> at90s8515 was early on..
[10:35:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> same pinout as an 8051..
[10:37:40] <Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: finns get very very drunk and then kill eachother with knife or axe, I've heard
[10:37:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> I thought that was norweigans..
[10:38:07] <Jartza> or at least that seems to be the depiction of finns according to foreigners :D
[10:39:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> oh man....the atmega8515 has the same pinout as the at90s8515,,,,and the 8051/8052 40pin chips.
[10:39:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> including the external memory interface.
[10:39:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> I never noticed that before.
[10:39:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> Jartza, I think the Scotts get it from them too...only they were too poor and used big rocks and logs as often as axes.
[10:40:25] <Jartza> hehe
[10:40:26] <Jartza> yea
[10:40:36] <Jartza> personally I don't axe people that often
[10:40:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> that seems to be a new york thing.
[10:40:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> "Hey, can I axe you a question?"
[10:41:02] <Tom_itx> or LA
[10:41:05] <Jartza> I also quite rarely drink that much
[10:41:13] <Jartza> yesterday I had 3 GTs
[10:41:21] <Jartza> but just because I was on Michael Monroe's gig
[10:41:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> no clue what a GT is.
[10:41:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> Mustang GT?
[10:42:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> glub...wish I could focus on one thing.
[10:42:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> sitting here jumping between pic32 programming, avr-libc stuff, and x86 programming.
[10:43:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> had a nasty thought too...how about writing an x86 emulator to run on a pic32 to run dos apps with a modded version of Jartza's vga output.
[10:44:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> load dos 5.0 on a pic32.
[10:45:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> might could even get it to run close to 80386/16MHz speed too!
[10:45:30] <Tom_itx> dos was fairly lean
[10:45:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> was and still is.
[10:45:45] <Tom_itx> i still use 6.22
[10:45:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> I run it in dosbox and/or vmware just for the hell of it.
[10:46:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have been playing with programming x86 bare metal the last few days.
[10:46:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> just for the halibut.
[10:46:46] <Tom_itx> the dos function calls were handy
[10:47:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm going even deeper.
[10:47:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> booting the vmware session straight to my software, no dos involved...just bios calls.
[10:50:29] <Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: gin & tonic ;)
[10:50:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> oh..eww.
[10:50:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> never liked gin.
[10:50:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> give me vodka on the rocks instead.
[10:51:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> or vodka and grapefruit juice!
[10:51:28] <Jartza> I don't like crappy gin either
[10:51:35] <Jartza> only good gin
[10:51:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've had bad gin and good gin...and they both have a kerosene aftertaste to me.
[10:51:50] <Jartza> Hendrick's or Bombay Sapphire or Helsinki Gin or...
[10:53:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's been a long time since I had any gin at all.
[10:54:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> last drinking I did was about 6 years ago.....Homemade Italian Rootbeers..
[10:55:02] <Jartza> if one wants to enjoy gin without tonic, then Helsinki Dry Gin is the winner of those three
[10:55:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> tall glass, ice, shot of galliano, shot of kahlua, fill with milk and puree in blender.
[10:55:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> tastes like an old fashioned rootbeer float.
[10:55:30] <apo_> I like Bruichladdich's Botanist
[11:06:00] <Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: hah! just got the left-scroll working perfectly without losing characters :)
[11:06:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> sweet
[11:07:36] <Jartza> yea. looks very nice now
[11:09:20] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxa3NNZm1KTU1ld0k/view
[11:09:30] <Jartza> for some reason google says "unable to process video" but downloading seems to work
[11:13:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> nicely done.
[11:15:20] <Jartza> yea, finally :)
[11:15:47] <Jartza> so darn tight timings, I got strange character losses like every 6th or 8th character
[11:15:54] <Jartza> but now it works nicely
[11:16:19] <Jartza> finally happy with that
[11:16:23] <Jartza> phew
[11:17:24] <Jartza> totally sick that the uart still works :D
[11:44:28] <Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: I have to admit, though, that there's one tiny annoyance in the scroll :)
[11:44:37] <Jartza> I had to dismiss the idea of scrolling only during vblank
[11:44:47] <Jartza> so if scrolling at full speed, there's slight tearing effect
[11:47:22] <Jartza> but being this stupid tiny chip, it's still awesome
[11:48:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> hehe.
[11:49:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> I should send you an atmega1284p or two and let you see what you can do with those.
[11:49:12] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxSXBVd0x0c3o5REE/view
[11:49:25] <Jartza> scrolling also works with color :)
[11:49:41] <Jartza> but on that video you can see the tearing
[11:49:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> you should do one scroll sideways then one up, wash, rinse, repeat.
[11:49:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah.
[11:50:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's not too bad though.
[11:50:26] <Jartza> it's a compromise
[11:50:38] <Jartza> scrolling only during vblank made me lose characters on uart
[11:50:43] <Jartza> I rather not have that
[11:51:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup.
[11:51:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> comms is more important than a little tear.
[11:54:38] <Jartza> indeed
[11:55:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> wish I could focus more on one project and get it working right..
[11:55:06] <Jartza> I hate those displays that just document "after sending this command, don't send any character for xxx milliseconds or characters will be lost"
[11:55:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> I would love to have the pic32mx chip generating video soon.
[11:55:25] <Jartza> :)
[11:55:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> and doing it my way.
[11:55:53] <Jartza> I made a stupid test as I got few AVRs for gift :D
[11:56:06] <Jartza> attiny5...
[11:56:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> with onboard dma and 64K of sram I should be able to do it at 800x600.
[11:56:15] <Jartza> at least it's simple to get hsync+vsync out of it :D
[11:56:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> you could use it to generate VGA test pattern at least.
[11:56:36] <Jartza> yea, I looked at that chips specs and they look cool
[11:56:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> a pocket monitor tester.
[11:56:43] <Jartza> yeah
[11:57:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> however much I love the AVR architecture, the pic32mx chips just blow any AVR out of the water pretty much...I suppose xmega chips compare but they are difficult to work with in my opinion, specially as there are no dip packages without a carrier board.
[11:58:16] <LeoNerd> How about VGA on one of those STM32 jobbies?
[11:58:26] <LeoNerd> You can get a breakout board with those on for about $3 lately
[11:59:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> I can get a pic32mx270f256b for free...have half a dozen of them as free samples.
[12:02:41] <LeoNerd> PICs amuse me.. they seem to have far too many characters in their part names
[12:03:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah.
[12:03:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> the pic32mx is a mips core, not a pic core...so it's a whole different aminal.
[12:05:26] <Jartza> I have those nucleo-boards
[12:05:30] <LeoNerd> Yah; rather more comparable to the ARM cores of the STM32s, than anything "traditional" PIC/AVR-shaped
[12:05:48] <Jartza> though I also have few xmegas
[12:06:10] <LeoNerd> Then there's always the Propeller ;)
[12:06:10] <LeoNerd> I'm not sure I can see a longterm future for Xmega
[12:06:37] <LeoNerd> tiny yes, ATmega yes... but then you're up in the realm of the smaller STM32s or SAMDs or whatever, and there just doesn't seem to be room for Xmega..
[12:06:46] <LeoNerd> AVR32 is already dead
[12:06:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> the propeller is a whole different world...never could get my mind around that beyond it being a multi-core processor.
[12:07:44] <LeoNerd> It seems to be the popular choice for VGA hardware
[12:07:50] <LeoNerd> The multicoreness of it does really well
[12:08:10] <Jartza> atxmega32a4u chips, it seems
[12:08:41] <sabesto> xmegas are nice, but it seems to be a too small advantage over the avr for people to start using it
[12:08:50] <Jartza> seems to have 4kB of sram
[12:09:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> sabesto, too small advantage and too many problems for me.
[12:09:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> first being I gotta solder it to a board or buy a board with it soldered on.
[12:09:42] <sabesto> Lambda_Aurigae: yeah, ive found undocumented features in the 32e5
[12:09:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> but, I'm a lazy bastard and love my solderless breadboards.
[12:10:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> when I can get a 50MHz chip with 256K of flash, 64K of sram, and hardware usb in a 28 pin dip, I jump on it.
[12:10:18] <sabesto> i use the xplained kits for dev, and then just order boards
[12:10:37] <Jartza> oh. I got these chips as a sample and I have those tqfp-breakouts
[12:10:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> most of what I do is hobby level play and hobby level teaching.
[12:10:52] <Jartza> not a bit deal splashing some solder paste on it and blowing the chip on place :)
[12:10:53] <sabesto> that works too if its not too many pins
[12:11:20] <sabesto> Jartza: drag soldering across the pins is a lot easier
[12:11:29] <sabesto> chisel tip
[12:11:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> I did get a bunch of schmartboards for cheap some years back,,,but the AVR chips use a different pin spacing than the boards I got.
[12:12:04] <sabesto> done in a few seconds once you tried a few times
[12:12:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> work with tqfp up to 144 pins.
[12:12:36] <Jartza> sabesto: I haven't had any problems with paste & hot air
[12:12:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> but I discovered later that there are two different pin spacings.
[12:13:31] <sabesto> Jartza: no, its a good method, but it does not take 30 seconds
[12:14:41] <LeoNerd> paste and hotair is something I've been trying lately. Do you get a stencil for that, or do you just freehand it?
[12:14:41] <LeoNerd> I've found it hard to not go totally overboard with paste and make it squish out everywhere and short lots
[12:15:33] <sabesto> when i did it for hobby use i did it freehand
[12:15:41] <sabesto> just solder wick up the rest
[12:15:51] <Jartza> I also freehand it but use the tiniest needle I could find
[12:17:14] <sabesto> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUyetZ5RtPs
[12:19:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> I need to acquire a USB microscope.
[12:19:30] <sabesto> dont expect to be able to work through it
[12:19:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> why not?
[12:19:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> I can work through a mirror.
[12:19:57] <sabesto> with a delay?
[12:20:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> aahh..didn't count on the delay.
[12:20:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> hell, a regular microscope would be good too.
[12:20:45] <sabesto> i guess it would work if you had nothing else
[12:20:46] <Jartza> actually even better ;)
[12:22:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> or turn one of my old cellphones into a scope.
[12:22:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> just need some optics.
[12:22:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> I get pretty fast response at lower resolutions...I could work with that response time.
[12:24:52] <sabesto> only use a microscope if its 0402 or maybe 0603
[12:29:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> if if I'm trying to read the numbers on a chip.
[12:29:36] <Jartza> yea, I use usb-microscope for that
[12:29:47] <Jartza> doesn't work for working with anything though
[12:29:52] <Jartza> because of the lag :)
[12:33:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> just tested the old htc thunderbolt...I can barely notice lag when going fast.
[12:34:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> so will finagle some optics to turn it into a microscope.
[12:34:09] <Jartza> nice
[12:34:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> might even have an old pocket scope here somewhere I can jb-weld to it.
[12:37:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.walmart.com/ip/43973843?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227031876360&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=59969640872&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=122982372032&veh=sem
[12:37:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> or I can grab something like that from walmart!
[12:42:16] <Jartza> hehe
[12:46:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> maybe even cheaper from a local thrift store if I keep an eye out.
[12:46:32] <nuxil> what header file is PORTB defined in ?
[12:46:54] <nuxil> * avr-libc
[12:47:51] <nuxil> its not in io.h so it must be in one of the includes.
[12:48:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> the chip specific file that is included from io.h
[12:49:43] <nuxil> which one does the atmel ATtiny85 use ?
[12:51:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> /usr/lib/avr/include/avr/iotn85.h
[12:51:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> the specific file is selected by setting your chip in the makefile or gcc command line.
[12:52:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> now, that file then includes iotnx5.h
[12:52:49] <nuxil> are you refering to the MTU in my Makefile?
[12:52:55] <nuxil> *MCU
[12:52:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> and that has all your defines.
[12:53:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup.
[12:53:15] <nuxil> it says. attiny85
[12:54:07] <nuxil> oh i see it now.
[12:54:09] <nuxil> thanks
[12:54:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> so, line 339 of the io.h looks for attiny85
[12:54:32] <nuxil> im not really a C man.. i prefere high level languages like Python :p
[12:54:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> bah
[12:54:52] <nuxil> hehe
[12:54:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> abstracted abstractions of abstracted languages.
[12:55:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> nothing that python can do that can't be done in C.
[12:55:50] <nuxil> sure
[12:56:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> maybe simpler, maybe developed faster, but C can do it all and compiles to run natively on the machine.
[12:56:34] <nuxil> its nice for fast coding&prototyping. but cant ofc keep up with the same performance
[12:57:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> and, ultimately, performance is a big thing on microcontrollers
[12:57:24] <nuxil> true dat
[12:57:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> if you have billions of cycles per second and a few billion bytes of ram, perl and python and php and ruby and all those are fun.
[12:58:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> but working on something that's equivalent to a 1980 computer,,,not so much.
[12:58:42] <nuxil> hey. this MCU i ot is faster than my 1st computer :p
[12:58:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah.
[12:58:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> my first computer was a commodore vic-20.
[12:59:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> I can emulate the 6502 on an avr faster than the 6502 can run actually.
[12:59:32] <nuxil> :)
[12:59:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> beyond that, your attiny85 has about the same program space as the vic-20.
[13:10:53] <nuxil> now lets see if i can manage to make some code to drive a couple of shift registers :)
[13:11:54] <Jartza> nuxil: yeah. attiny85 has enough power to be used as vga-controller :)
[13:13:32] <nuxil> cool
[13:14:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> just barely.
[13:14:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> but Jartza's work is rather impressive.
[13:15:03] <nuxil> what are you making Jartza ?
[13:17:24] <Mr_Sheesh> someone has a 3 color game on an attiny 85 - joystick included
[13:17:40] <Jartza> Mr_Sheesh: yeah... but overclocked :P
[13:17:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> Mr_Sheesh, vga or composite?
[13:17:53] <nuxil> Mr_Sheesh, seriouly?
[13:17:54] <Jartza> and also disabled reset
[13:18:02] <nuxil> link ? i wanna see that
[13:18:05] <Jartza> nuxil: I made VGA controller of attiny
[13:18:12] <Jartza> https://github.com/Jartza/octapentaveega
[13:18:18] <Jartza> there's some links to pics and videos
[13:18:24] <Jartza> and of course the code
[13:18:27] <Mr_Sheesh> http://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/attiny-85-does-color-vga-sound-and-joystick-32mhz
[13:18:42] <Mr_Sheesh> well yeah, OCed but it WORKS
[13:18:49] <Jartza> nuxil: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxa3NNZm1KTU1ld0k/view
[13:18:55] <nuxil> Jartza, wow. that looks impressive indeed.
[13:18:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's 4 color, including black.
[13:19:08] <Jartza> finished that scroll today
[13:19:17] <Mr_Sheesh> Truly. It'd likely be portable to an attiny2313 or the like ofc :P
[13:19:35] <Jartza> Mr_Sheesh: yeah, that's nice too :)
[13:19:40] <Mr_Sheesh> ok CMYK then? While since I looked at it
[13:19:43] <Jartza> I wanted this to be more usable, though
[13:19:56] <Jartza> hence the uart and 32x14 characters
[13:20:11] <Mr_Sheesh> run 3 attiny85a's in parallel? :P
[13:21:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> single clock source, sync them up and they run together...same code on all of them with minor changes to respond to different color codes for each.
[13:22:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> parallel processing at its finest!
[13:22:31] <Mr_Sheesh> Use 1 pin, if reads at VCC its one code block, if vcc/2 another, if gnd another
[13:22:51] <Mr_Sheesh> that way all 3 identical code maybe
[13:23:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> possibly, but that would require an extra pin on his design as I recall.
[13:23:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> which is available by changing the reset to an i/o pin, but,,,
[13:24:02] <nuxil> after looking at your links. i feel like i been living under a rock.. why didnt i start messing with mcu sooner :p
[13:24:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> just don't fall into the pit known as arduino.
[13:24:49] <nuxil> no i dont have that
[13:25:11] <nuxil> i got a raspberry PI 2. and im happy with it.
[13:25:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have an rPI B+ here that I hardly touch these days.
[13:25:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> considering selling it.
[13:32:58] <Jartza> I have lot of those linux boards
[13:33:19] <Jartza> rpi in different versions, beaglebones (black/green), olinuxino a10, a13...
[13:34:01] <Mr_Sheesh> Lambda_Aurigae, I'd have to look at the design, it'd depend on how much you changed iirc. Could do vga more than 1 way :p
[13:34:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> true.
[13:34:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> I can think of a way to generate 3 states from a single pin actually.
[13:34:58] <Mr_Sheesh> I use arduino pro minis as AVRs, cheapish, the Dragon programs them nicely :)
[13:35:11] <Mr_Sheesh> Always a way :)
[13:35:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> not sure if the chip can switch fast enough though.
[13:35:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> but the way Jartza generates his vga, you are kinda limited to 2 states on one pin due to the fact that he is abusing the USI.
[13:35:55] <Mr_Sheesh> heat sink it & oc it faster :p LOL
[13:36:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah, but, the idea was to do it stock, not overclocked.
[13:36:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> hell, I once generated VGA without a microcontroller...but it needed the microcontroller to update the video ram.
[13:36:49] <Mr_Sheesh> what? but LN2 + 1GHz clock, all those are stock bits, some place :p
[13:37:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> just a clock source, some discreet logic, and an spi interfaced serial sram
[13:38:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> the right clock speed, the right delays for your H and V sync, and away you go.
[13:40:46] <Jartza> nuxil: anyhow, if you have attiny85 and 20MHz oscillator, you could just try out that vga :)
[13:42:10] <Jartza> Mr_Sheesh: well, attiny85 proven runs nicely with 32MHz... but the specs say 20MHz
[13:43:03] <Jartza> I just wanted to make it without extra hacking :)
[13:43:14] <Jartza> using 20Mhz and not "abusing" the reset-pin
[13:43:29] <Jartza> anyhow, my bigger problem is memory
[13:43:35] <Mr_Sheesh> try 40 or 50? cool it tho. I know PICs run OK with heatsinking at 2x clock
[13:43:50] <Jartza> 32x14 characters already eat 448 bytes of 512
[13:43:54] <Mr_Sheesh> (external osc tho)
[13:44:01] <Jartza> horizontal line currently being drawn eats 32 bytes
[13:44:12] <Jartza> the next horizontal line which is precalculated eats another 32
[13:44:16] <Jartza> oops. there goes 512 :)
[13:44:30] <Jartza> rest of the code uses cpu registers
[13:46:31] <Jartza> so overclocking doesn't bring that much more to table
[13:47:00] <Jartza> my original goal was 16x4 characters :P
[13:47:50] <Jartza> ...and to generate colors with single chip
[13:49:19] <Jartza> oh yeah. and sync-on-green could save a pin I guess, but not all monitors support it
[13:51:50] <cehteh> iirc there is some trick to split out the sync-on-green at the monitor input
[13:52:30] <Jartza> yea
[13:53:01] <Jartza> but I'm quite happy with the vga-code now as-is
[13:53:29] <Jartza> still usable, it has the uart-support @9600bps and ansi-escape-subset-support
[13:56:52] <cehteh> bte .. who has vga nowadays? .. can you port it to HDMI plz? :D
[13:58:37] <Jartza> http://www.ebay.com/itm/261907576467
[13:58:40] <Jartza> just buy one of those :)
[13:59:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> cehteh, I have 3 hdmi devices here...and 8 vga devices...display type devices that is.
[13:59:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> of the 3, 1 is this monitor and the other 2 are TVs hung up high on the wall.
[13:59:18] <Jartza> I also have like ~10 vga monitors around
[13:59:34] <Jartza> most of them I got for free from "weee-trash"
[13:59:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> same here.
[13:59:53] <Jartza> with attiny I can use them to something :)
[14:00:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> Jartza, time to try the ascii art video thingie?
[14:00:42] <cehteh> years ago i thrown away a 14" B/W monitor :D
[14:00:50] <cehteh> CRT
[14:01:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> cehteh, I still have a 21inch IBM CRT monitor.
[14:01:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> the colors on it and the responsiveness of it blow away any LCD I have.
[14:02:02] <cehteh> but .. yeah great combination ... attiny some microwatts ... monitor 100Watts and counting
[14:02:21] <cehteh> but lcd wins in sharpness
[14:02:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> not really.
[14:02:37] <cehteh> and power consumption
[14:02:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> will give it that.
[14:02:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> can't play my gun based video games on a CRT
[14:03:14] <cehteh> i had a multisync .. but it once died and since then i have a lcd becaus its less power and takes less space on the desk
[14:03:18] <cehteh> wont go back
[14:03:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> I keep that CRT around for my c-64 and the gun based video games.
[14:04:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have an adapter to it to run the C64 on it.
[14:04:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> and can shoot things.
[14:05:02] <Jartza> hehe
[14:05:11] <Jartza> I have my commodore 1084 ready for c64 :)
[14:05:25] <Jartza> few days ago I played with my kid
[14:05:30] <Jartza> some classics
[14:05:59] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxWVdXTkJrS05KUnc/view
[14:07:21] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxREt6YVhzNFREdm8/view
[14:07:22] <Jartza> :)
[14:15:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> you have a kid?
[14:24:41] <Jartza> yea
[14:24:49] <Jartza> he's 4 years old now
[14:24:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> poor kid.
[14:25:03] <Jartza> how come? :D
[14:25:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> just kidding!
[14:25:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> :}
[14:25:59] <Jartza> hehe. yea. he needs to live in a land of electronics, video games and retro machines :D
[14:26:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> plenty of high voltage things to keep him jumping?
[14:28:23] <Jartza> hehe, naah
[14:29:01] <Jartza> but the picture quality of videopac (magnavox odyssey2 in USA I guess) is crappy through that RF-modulator
[14:29:19] <Jartza> I might mod it to RGB or at least composite video one day
[14:29:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah..rf modulators are horrid...
[14:30:30] <Jartza> yeah... didn't even remember how bad the pic looks :)
[14:32:05] <LeoNerd> HDMI
[14:32:06] * LeoNerd runs away
[14:32:52] <Jartza> hdmi out from videopac
[14:32:58] <Jartza> that'd be fun project :D
[14:33:21] <LeoNerd> A lot of the FPGA demo boards tend to come with HDMI connectors on
[14:35:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> could just recreate the videopac on the fpga.
[14:40:51] <Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: I think that was already done ~10 years ago
[14:41:52] <Jartza> there was this project.... can't remember it's name
[14:41:54] <Jartza> argh
[14:42:08] <Jartza> ahh.. MIST
[14:42:12] <Jartza> https://github.com/mist-devel/mist-board/wiki
[14:42:48] <Jartza> https://github.com/mist-devel/mist-binaries/tree/master/cores
[14:44:35] <Jartza> seems that core was updated 11 months ago, but I remember seeing it first time like in 2005-2007
[14:45:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> I remember something like that from opencores some years ago.
[14:46:23] <Jartza> yeah
[14:46:29] <Jartza> I've never looked into fpga yet
[15:46:00] <malinus> Yay I've got my amplitude-peak based sound localization to work. I'm suprised by how accurate it is. Never expected it to work this well. I'm just sorry that I had to use a PSOC to do it, instead of an avr :3
[15:48:47] <Jartza> nice :)
[15:48:54] <Jartza> I'm sorry too you had to use PSOC
[15:49:24] <malinus> Jartza: it's not that bad. I just hate that there are no free tools (and hence had to use windows).
[15:49:28] <malinus> What do you not like about it?
[15:50:23] <malinus> I've asked before but if you responded it has been lost - my buffer is too short :)
[15:50:26] <Jartza> that there are no free tools.... :P
[15:50:33] <Jartza> and I have no windows
[15:51:08] <malinus> Well I have to run windows in a virtual machine for other tools that I sometimes have to use. So it wasn't THAT bad.
[15:52:45] <malinus> If PSOC had a free toolchain it would be great though. It already uses arm-gcc for the arm mcu, but their PGA thing needs their own tool.
[15:53:12] <malinus> But hey, what do you expect? It's not like there are any fpga's or similar with free toolchains out there. At least none that I know.
[16:10:16] <Jartza> too bad :)
[16:53:28] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxWEVVeDN2RkJEX3M/view
[16:53:29] <Jartza> hehe
[16:53:32] <Jartza> color scrolling
[17:05:19] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxYms0VUtleVpKMmc/view
[17:05:21] <Jartza> bit better
[17:21:41] <Xark> malinus: There is only one FPGA with full open-source (reverse engineered) toolchain, IceStorm for Lattice iCE40 series (just iCE40HX-1K and iCE40-HX8K so far I believe). A decent smallish low-power FPGA. See http://hackaday.com/2015/05/29/an-open-source-toolchain-for-ice40-fpgas/ and http://hackaday.com/2015/07/28/open-source-fpga-toolchain-builds-cpu/
[17:22:30] <Xark> (Verilog only currently, which is a bummer)
[17:23:37] <Xark> Jartza: Looks pretty good scrolling. What part are you still working on? Speed?
[17:24:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> Xark, I suspect more features...
[17:24:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> he still has some flash left.
[17:24:53] <Jartza> Xark: nothing
[17:24:55] <Jartza> :D
[17:25:07] <Xark> :D
[17:25:12] <Jartza> the left scrolling was a bit broken before
[17:25:34] <Xark> Ahh, okay. I just looked at last video where I presume it is now working.
[17:25:38] <Jartza> mainly, if feeding data with full speed through uart, some characters sometimes broke or got lost when scrolling
[17:25:56] <Jartza> got that fixed
[17:26:36] <Xark> Jartza: Nice. This is with 9600 baud?
[17:26:40] <Jartza> yes
[17:26:55] * Lambda_Aurigae thinks it is rather impressive.
[17:26:55] <Jartza> there's two "self-made" escape-codes
[17:27:08] <Jartza> <esc>[#[ where # is row-number 0-13
[17:27:18] <Jartza> scrolls that single row one column left
[17:27:21] <Jartza> or <esc>D
[17:27:27] <Jartza> which scrolls full screen left one column
[17:27:53] <Jartza> those aren't very standard ANSI, but shouldn't also break ansi
[17:28:08] <Jartza> https://github.com/Jartza/octapentaveega/blob/master/vga_uart_protocol.txt
[17:28:13] <Jartza> other supported codes there
[17:46:02] <cehteh> Jartza: when you reduce the resolution (lets say 16x7), internal clock, and maybe use the reset as io. 8 colors should be possible with a single tiny85 :D
[17:46:41] <Jartza> internal clock has too much jitter for vga
[17:46:45] <Jartza> not possible
[17:47:05] <cehteh> jitter or drift?
[17:47:11] <Jartza> jitter
[17:47:25] <Jartza> clearly visible one
[17:47:43] <Jartza> I already tried vga with attiny and calibrated the internal oscillator to 20Mhz
[17:48:06] <cehteh> oh ok i just thought its drifting around, which could be fixed by syncing with RX by adjusting OSCAL
[17:48:07] <Jartza> yes, I got picture, but the picture is hairy and "curly"
[17:48:14] <cehteh> ok
[17:48:50] <cehteh> well, then external clock, but reset as io .. have fun with high voltage programming
[17:48:53] <Jartza> and yes, indeed, I did calibrate OSCCAL using uart :)
[17:50:22] <Jartza> and the idea of this was to NOT overclock or NOT to disable reset ;)
[17:50:47] <Jartza> but it's fully open source, so anyone is of course welcome to enhance it
[17:52:07] <cehteh> haha ok
[17:53:29] <cehteh> 20Mhz is within spec, its not overclocking
[17:54:17] <Jartza> that's what I'm running at
[17:54:55] <cehteh> so you are not overclocking
[17:55:36] <cehteh> oh you didnt saied that :)
[17:59:46] <nuxil> is there a way to use python instead, to make the hex files :p, C is makeing my head go. "BAM" since i have lack of knowlege about it :p
[17:59:52] <nuxil> seen that, DDRB = 0xFF; ,is setting all pins as output i guess i need to do some bitwise operation to set only pin 2 and 3 as output, but how? DDRB |= wot >> ?
[18:00:40] <cehteh> nuxil: lol now .. or *maybe* you can build some crosscompiler with pypy .. if your head isnt already exploded :D
[18:00:50] <nuxil> haha
[18:01:05] <nuxil> think i'll just learn C :p
[18:01:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> nuxil, yes...each bit in the register sets one port.
[18:01:31] <cehteh> DDRB = _BV(PINB5) | _BV(PINB4);
[18:01:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> 0xF0 sets the high 4 bits out and low 4 input.
[18:01:55] <cehteh> is the usual way used in the avrlibc
[18:02:15] <nuxil> _BV ?
[18:02:23] <cehteh> thats a predefined macro
[18:02:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> a macro for bit value
[18:02:32] <nuxil> ok.
[18:02:36] <Jartza> I don't like _BV :P
[18:02:36] <Xark> nuxil: That is a helper macro that does something like (1<<N)
[18:03:01] <cehteh> i used some preprocessor magic to make this even easier .. one just defines how the inputs are configured once
[18:03:12] <Jartza> yea, I have my magic macros too :)
[18:03:12] <Xark> nuxil: So if N is (e.g.) 3, you get 1<<3 which is bit 3 (counting from 0).
[18:03:22] <nuxil> i see.
[18:03:30] <nuxil> thanks for clearing it up :)
[18:03:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> k&r's the c programming language
[18:03:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> then read through the avr-libc manual.
[18:03:53] <Xark> nuxil: << is shift left, BTW (so 1<<3 is 8)
[18:05:01] <Xark> nuxil: You can also use binary notation in some cases, so bit 3 could be 0b00001000 or just 0b1000
[18:05:58] <cehteh> http://git.pipapo.org/?p=dinoheat;a=blob;f=Dino.h see right at the begin, just readable definition and a lot unreadable preprocessor shit to expand it :) (any yes sadly that was some arduino stuff :D) ..
[18:06:54] * cehteh sometimes overuses the preprocessor a bit :)
[18:07:14] <Casper> To reverse engineer an IR signal, what would you use? I don't have a logic analyser...
[18:07:48] <nuxil> a fast camera :p
[18:07:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> oscilloscope.
[18:08:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> make a logic analyzer
[18:08:14] <nuxil> yeah if you have that use it
[18:08:16] <Casper> that is the route I'm going, but it is a pita to do it...
[18:08:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> actually, an oscilloscope is better than a logic analyzer.
[18:08:52] <Casper> I don't want to solder anything to the remote (still under waranty), no space anywhere to connect probes, holding everything and all is a pain
[18:09:21] <Casper> and there is 2 packets of near 64 bits
[18:09:37] <Casper> so about 100-128 bits of info to grab for each...
[18:10:02] <cehteh> there are programs for IRDA which allow you to record signals
[18:10:18] <Jartza> oh
[18:10:19] <Jartza> yea
[18:10:19] <Jartza> http://pastie.org/10615022
[18:10:22] <Jartza> :)
[18:10:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> you will likely need a 40KHz or 38KHz decoder hardware.
[18:10:39] <Casper> I have no IR module, and the IR of the laptop appear to be unusable
[18:10:41] <Jartza> with those macros you can just do like SET_BITS(DDRB, PB1, PB3, PB7)
[18:10:55] <Jartza> sorry, BITS_SET
[18:10:57] <cehteh> Jartza: thats harmless :D
[18:11:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> the transmission is done on a 38 or 40 KHz carrier..
[18:11:12] <cehteh> http://git.pipapo.org/?p=dinoheat;a=blob;f=progmem_string_array.h;
[18:11:18] * Casper wonders if exporting to csv wouln't be easier...
[18:11:47] <DKordic> I guess 50kHz carier is too slow for that link.
[18:11:51] <Jartza> cehteh: yeah
[18:12:01] <nuxil> Jartza, nice
[18:12:10] <Jartza> but I just mean, I use my own macros instead of those _BV etc
[18:12:46] <Jartza> SET_BITS and CLEAR_BITS and SET_BITS_EX (which sets exclusively only those bits defined and rest of the bits to 0)
[18:12:46] <cehteh> Jartza: apropos does the assembler run the C preprocessor?
[18:12:58] <cehteh> i once made a font-compiler in preprocessor
[18:13:03] <Jartza> what assembler?
[18:13:06] <Jartza> I'm using avra
[18:13:08] <cehteh> just like your pyhton stuff
[18:13:40] <Jartza> ahh yea. my python is maybe a bit weird. and especially the file format :)
[18:14:04] <nuxil> i havent looked but what are you using python for?.
[18:14:09] <Jartza> as you can write quite a lot of "extra stuff" in the font file and it doesn't care
[18:14:19] <nuxil> just fonts?
[18:14:29] <cehteh> http://public.pipapo.org/FontCompiler.h
[18:14:41] <Jartza> nuxil: I'm generating https://github.com/Jartza/octapentaveega/blob/master/font.inc
[18:14:52] <Jartza> from this: https://github.com/Jartza/octapentaveega/blob/master/vgafont.dat
[18:15:39] <nuxil> nice.
[18:15:54] <cehteh> Jartza: using python is cheating :)
[18:16:14] <Jartza> no it's not :P
[18:16:55] <Xark> Yeah, get with the program and first draw the font in crayon on graph paper, then enter it in binary with toggle switches. :)
[18:17:26] <Jartza> hehe
[18:17:41] <Jartza> I like my font generator
[18:17:48] <Jartza> the .dat file is simple to modify
[18:18:27] <cehteh> but if the preprocessor can do it just from the asm source .. hey
[18:19:09] * Xark notes for his first programming job (Sega arcade game conversion), on his first day he was handed graph paper with sprites drawn by the artist in colored pencil (but he didn't understand "blank" was a color and used 5 colors). :)
[18:21:40] <Xark> I generally crunch to C source with 0b0000000, then it is generally possible to use text editor to tweak font. :) Or use macros to make it slightly more readable: http://hastebin.com/axiniwiboz.coffee
[18:22:11] <Jartza> cehteh: I'm still using avra.... quite limited :)
[18:22:30] <DKordic> nuxil: Something like blinking LED is not hard even in assembly.
[18:22:39] <Xark> Jartza: Right, I can see that.
[18:22:41] <cehteh> i never did asm on the avr
[18:22:52] <cehteh> does avra run a preprocessor?
[18:23:02] <Xark> cehteh: I doubt it.
[18:23:05] <Jartza> Xark: me too. but I wanted to make it even more readable to people and let them not pay attention to commas and "0b" and stuff ;)
[18:23:26] <cehteh> it has --define and incliudes
[18:23:35] <Xark> Jartza: Yeah. I have a tool that takes a .bmp (or tga) file and kicks out a font.
[18:23:58] <nuxil> DKordic, im trying to hook up 2 x 74HC595 shift registers to my attiny85
[18:24:16] <nuxil> to drive 16 legs
[18:24:19] <nuxil> *leds
[18:24:31] <Xark> nuxil: So chained (effectively one 16-bit shift register)?
[18:24:36] <Jartza> cehteh: limited one (built-in)
[18:24:55] <nuxil> Xark, yea that the idea
[18:25:03] <Xark> nuxil: Cool. I have done that.
[18:25:11] <nuxil> nice :)
[18:25:19] <cehteh> nuxil: with charlyplexing you can drive 20leds on a tiny w/o shift registers :D ..
[18:25:30] <Jartza> nuxil: that's a nice learning project!
[18:25:41] <Jartza> shift registers and talking to them
[18:26:28] <Jartza> cehteh: or you can run shift register with only one pin ;)
[18:26:42] <nuxil> once im done with it im gonna put them in a mirror :p
[18:26:47] <nuxil> https://www.google.no/search?q=led+mirror&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwju5uOMucjJAhVB2ywKHQ45CFYQ_AUIBygB&biw=1600&bih=773#imgrc=U1-gUflIJwAsRM%3A
[18:26:52] <Xark> nuxil: I used a circuit like the one shown here http://lucidtronix.com/tutorials/40 (shown by "Step 0 Daisy Chain your Shift Registers").
[18:26:53] <nuxil> but with some effects :p
[18:28:11] * cehteh thinks he should build something around a single tiny and 20 charlieplexed leds, maybe thermometer?
[18:28:17] <nuxil> Xark, nice
[18:31:25] <Xark> cehteh: I just used cheap WS8312B LEDs in my little bike blinker. :) https://imgur.com/a/S0ugQ#2
[18:31:41] <Xark> WS8211* apparently. :)
[18:31:55] <cehteh> i always wanted to build something with charliplexing
[18:34:17] <cehteh> hey ... 3 digit thermometer with 7 segment only needs 20 elements if the temperature goes not above 40°C ...
[18:34:44] <cehteh> but mhm 7 segment leds have common kathode usually :/
[18:35:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> so use a bunch of rectangular LEDs.
[18:35:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> rather than a regular 7seg display.
[18:35:27] <cehteh> would look more pro with real 7 seg elements
[18:35:32] <Xark> Yeah, not a good charlieplex candidate. Unless you do something like this -> https://hackaday.io/project/8121-discrete-yasep/log/28660-my-first-quad-hex-led-module
[18:35:53] * Xark 's link is what Lambda_Aurigae is suggesting (or very similar).
[18:35:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> embed them in a piece of black plastic..they will look professionalish.
[18:35:57] <cehteh> i want a big one :D
[18:36:06] <cehteh> well i think about it
[18:36:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> sparkfun.com has a giant 7-seg display.
[18:36:40] <cehteh> for giant $$$
[18:37:21] <Xark> cehteh: I have seen "homemade" ones that use epoxy mixed with toner for "black plastic" look pretty nice.
[18:37:30] <cehteh> yeah i can do that
[18:57:27] <Jartza> I want to try those APA102C led strips one day