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[10:24:43] <averovsky> Im trying to get uart working. I connected to my laptop on the terminal and hexidecimal view I see there are only zeros are sent
[10:24:52] <averovsky> might it be problem with my converter ?
[10:24:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> might be.
[10:25:07] <averovsky> yesterday was working fine
[10:25:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> without having some kind of an idea of software and hardware setup, no way to tell.
[10:26:03] <averovsky> Lambda_Aurigae: you mean uart lib and physcial connection ?/
[10:26:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> uart lib, software that's using the uart lib, physical connection,,,,yes.
[10:26:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> hell, don't even know what avr you are using.
[10:27:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's like calling the auto mechanic and telling him, "My car makes funny noises."
[10:27:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> what car, what nose, when you go backwards or forwards, when you are sitting still or moving or turning left or right, etc.
[10:28:08] <averovsky> Lambda_Aurigae: atmega328p, Peter Fleury uart lib, rs232 converter PL2303
[10:28:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> you say it worked yesterday but not today
[10:28:40] <averovsky> PL2303HX USB to TTL Converter Module
[10:28:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> what did you do?
[10:29:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> something has to have changed.
[10:29:43] <averovsky> I disconnect some cables from my small breadboard cause I need it on my big one
[10:29:55] <averovsky> and today I started working on small one
[10:30:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> so you hooked something up wrong.
[10:30:19] <averovsky> I have to pins on my atmega tx and rx
[10:30:33] <averovsky> and Im out of idea what else can be
[10:30:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> do you have the GND wire connected?
[10:31:05] <averovsky> Yes
[10:31:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> and the AVR has power and is alive and sending data?
[10:31:47] <averovsky> I connected led to test if everything is fine
[10:31:50] <averovsky> and it is blinking
[10:32:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> and you have tested the usb-serial adapter?
[10:33:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> do a loopback and test it.
[10:34:06] <averovsky> I never did this
[10:34:18] <averovsky> connect tx to rx ?
[10:34:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> connect tx to rx and use a terminal program to send data out the port.
[10:34:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> you should get back exactly what you send.
[10:35:33] <averovsky> great
[10:35:35] <averovsky> doing it
[10:36:44] <averovsky> I connected it together, and Ive sent break signal and I get 00
[10:38:30] <averovsky> I use gtkterm
[10:38:39] <averovsky> I can send hexdecimal data only
[10:38:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> I use minicom or ckermit
[10:39:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> you can't just type text into it?
[10:39:18] <averovsky> Ihe switched to minicom
[10:39:51] <averovsky> how you send data with minicom
[10:39:52] <averovsky> ?
[10:41:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> you type
[10:41:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> by default it is in terminal mode.
[10:42:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> you type something..it sends that data over the connected serial port...it displays any data coming in from the connected serial port.
[10:44:00] <averovsky> when I type leds on converter are blinking but on terminal I doesnt anything beside the text which I typed
[10:44:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> that's what you are supposed to see.
[10:45:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> if you disconnect the tx-rx connection you should not get any return...not see anything that you typed.
[10:45:06] <averovsky> but it shouldnt be like I typed "test" and I should see duplicated word "test:
[10:45:08] <averovsky> ?
[10:45:15] <averovsky> acha
[10:45:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> by default, minicom does not do local echo.
[10:45:31] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxOXdndUU2UmxoX00/view
[10:45:37] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxbTVNMWhlTmVZZ3M/view
[10:45:44] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxdEplMk9CeWM4bkU/view
[10:45:47] <averovsky> Ok when I disconnect I cannot type anything
[10:45:48] <Jartza> this up today :)
[10:45:59] <averovsky> so this means it works yes ?
[10:46:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> you would have to type ctrl-A, Z, E to get local echo..
[10:46:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> yes...that means it works.
[10:46:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> so it is either the avr or the connection to the avr.
[10:46:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> on your avr, what is your clock source?
[10:46:32] <averovsky> 16MHz
[10:46:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> what is the clock source?
[10:46:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> not how fast is it?
[10:47:26] <averovsky> external crystal ?
[10:47:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> thank you.
[10:48:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> I am back to the connection between avr and usb adapter being wrong.
[10:49:54] <averovsky> hmmm
[10:50:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> without testing point by point, no way for me to tell from here.
[10:50:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> I would put a protocol analyzer or logic analyzer on the connection and watch to see what's happening.
[10:51:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> if I didn't have one, I would build one, which is what I did when I didn't have one and now I have one.
[10:51:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> but something like a bus pirate would work just fine.
[10:51:38] <antto> one does not simply build a logic analyzer
[10:51:39] <antto> ;P~
[10:51:56] <averovsky> it is possible for newbie like me :) ?
[10:52:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> antto, why not?
[10:52:36] <antto> if it doesn't work for some reason.. you'll have to use a scope to find why ;P~
[10:52:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> pic18f4550 connected usb to the PC and sending data from one data port via usb-cdc..
[10:52:48] <antto> and if you don't have a scope, how about building one? ;P~
[10:52:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> antto, build the tools to build the tools.
[10:53:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> or buy a simple tool and work up from there.
[10:53:09] <Jartza> like when I started with avr :)
[10:53:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have no scope.
[10:53:17] <Jartza> I soldered my own avr-programmer
[10:53:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> when I started with avr I didn't have a programmer...my first programmer was 5 wires connected to my parallel port.
[10:53:37] <Jartza> then flashed that with raspberry pi and gpio bitbanging :)
[10:53:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> I didn't have #avr to ask questions on either.
[10:54:02] <Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: yeah, I don't have computer with parallel port anymore
[10:54:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> in 2001 there were few resources on the internet in general.
[10:54:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> Jartza, excuses excuses.
[10:54:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> I just got the stuff for a new computer,,,it has a parallel port on the motherboard.
[10:54:31] <Thrashbarg> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/171932309409 <-- cheap, nasty, but workable 8-channel logic analyser
[10:54:34] <antto> i know.. i was doing other things in 2001 and i know how the internet waz back then
[10:54:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> just waiting on the cpu to put it all together.
[10:54:44] <Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: I only have laptops
[10:54:59] <Jartza> I haven't had desktop machine in 8 years or something
[10:55:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> Jartza, I have plenty of those...and alway keep a couple of old ones with parallel and serial port just for testing.
[10:55:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> p-4 class laptop with linux on it and all the i/o ports I ever wanted.
[10:56:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> battery is hosed but the machine still runs well enough to get a full GUI environment,,,but I usually run just from console.
[10:56:40] <antto> Thrashbarg but where do you actually see the data?!
[10:56:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> have a nice p-3 laptop with a docking station too...thing even has tv in and out..
[10:56:56] <Thrashbarg> antto: software, it's USB...
[10:57:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> Thrashbarg, what software does that work with?
[10:58:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> or does it work only with its custom software?
[10:59:03] <Thrashbarg> https://www.saleae.com/ <-- I think they're all ripoffs of the hardware for this
[10:59:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> aahh.
[10:59:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> ok.
[10:59:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> so should be lots of compatible software.
[10:59:22] <Thrashbarg> yeah
[10:59:24] <Thrashbarg> because China
[11:00:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> buspirate is a good cheapish toy for watching and analyzing i2c, spi, and usart connections.
[11:00:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have 4 of them here.
[11:00:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> 1 I bought and the other 3 I built.
[11:00:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> logic shrimp is a nice cheapish logic analyzer too.
[11:01:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> oooo...logic pirate is new version.
[11:01:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> sweeet.
[11:01:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> time to build one.
[11:02:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> sweet..I have everything I need too.
[11:03:00] <averovsky> :)
[11:03:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> pic32mx250f128b, a pair of 23lc1024 serial sram with sqi inputs and outputs, logic level converter chip, voltage regulator, some resistors and caps and a crystal.
[11:04:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://dangerousprototypes.com/docs/Logic_Pirate
[11:06:38] <averovsky> Lambda_Aurigae: so I fucked up something with connection on the breadboard, probably ?
[11:06:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> and it uses open logic sniffer software.
[11:06:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> averovsky, possibly.
[11:07:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> if you know the avr is running, and running the same software from yesterday, and the only other thing that changed is the connection between the usb-serial adapter and the breadboard, it stands to reason that the problem is in that connection.
[11:07:58] <averovsky> i have chancged also some connection on the breadboard
[11:08:02] <averovsky> fawk
[11:08:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> aahh..you didn't say that earlier.
[11:08:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> so, triple check everything that might have changed.
[11:08:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> then check it again.
[11:08:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> we can't read your mind or see your hardware setup as it is now or as it was yesterday.
[11:09:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> might I suggest a camera??? take pictures of when it is working...then another when it's not working...then you can compare and see what you broke.
[11:09:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> an old cellphone with a camera on it mounted over your workbench with ipcam software on it so you can see it from your computer monitor.
[11:10:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> I know there is free ipcam software that will give you the ability to record video and take snapshots from a computer.
[11:10:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> for cheap android phones that is.
[11:10:35] <averovsky> sounds crazy :)
[11:16:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> what crazy?
[11:16:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> an old swingarm mount lamp arm thingie.
[11:17:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> an old android phone that someone has thrown out.
[11:17:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> or is gonna throw out.
[11:17:23] <averovsky> I have and ole one
[11:17:26] <averovsky> old*
[11:17:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> I pick them up from several stores around where people drop them in the phone recycle boxes.
[11:17:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> even got a functioning iphone 3 once
[11:17:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> cleaned it up and sold it for 30 dollars.
[11:18:21] <averovsky> you have such as store ?
[11:18:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> walmart
[11:18:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> the local phone companies all have a box for such things.
[11:19:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> staples, office max, office depot, k-mart
[11:19:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.homedecorators.com/images/items/medium/70070210.jpg
[11:19:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> find an old lamp of that style.
[11:19:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> replace lamp with some kind of holder for the phone.
[11:19:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> mount so you can get photos of the workbench.
[11:20:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> if you have an illumination LED on it then it doubles as a worklight too.
[11:20:16] <averovsky> I wouldnt think about such an idea realy
[11:20:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> well, start thinking.
[11:20:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's called the hacker mentality
[11:21:28] <averovsky> Im programmer I realy new to avr and circuits
[11:21:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> no avr or circuits required.
[11:21:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> just some hardware.
[11:22:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> little bit of premade software
[11:22:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> and away you go.
[11:22:15] <averovsky> I mean for looking for such an ideas. For programming git it is enough to remember the state
[11:22:25] <averovsky> of your code ;)
[11:22:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> can even install a remote-desktop software for accessing the phone from the pc.
[11:22:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> so you can turn the LED on and off from your computer.
[11:23:58] <averovsky> True.
[11:24:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> learn to hack up useful things from junk.
[11:24:16] <averovsky> The worst thing it ill not solve my problem today
[11:24:25] <averovsky> will*
[11:24:34] <averovsky> but I understand what do you mean
[11:24:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> go back and redo everything maybe?
[11:24:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> triple check every connection
[11:24:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> then check again.
[11:25:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> if all else fails, remove everything from the breadboard and build it from scratch.
[11:25:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> then triple check and check again.
[11:26:05] <averovsky> gosh it works now
[11:26:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> I would recommend investing in a logic pirate and a bus pirate at the minimum of test gear.
[11:26:18] <averovsky> you now what is funny that dont kno what I did
[11:26:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> breadboards are like that.
[11:26:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> you probably have cheap ones.
[11:26:41] <averovsky> preatty cheap one :(
[11:26:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> connections can be flakey on them at times.
[11:27:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> which is why I said pull everything and redo it.
[11:27:05] <averovsky> I will show you my env if you want to see :)
[11:27:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> no need really.
[11:27:56] <averovsky> Lambda_Aurigae:
https://www.adafruit.com/products/64
[11:28:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.circuitspecialists.com/solderless-breadboard-wb-102.html
[11:28:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> I use these and they are very reliable,,even though they are cheap.
[11:28:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> oh geezus.
[11:28:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> pricy there dude.
[11:29:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.circuitspecialists.com/wb-801.html
[11:29:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> there's the small version of mine.
[11:29:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.circuitspecialists.com/solderless-breadboards
[11:29:52] <averovsky> I bought it for 1 or 1,5 dollar in local shop
[11:30:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> oh...
[11:30:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> good..glad you didn't pay that much for that from adafruit.
[11:30:45] <averovsky> No i just found on google graphics
[11:30:49] <averovsky> but thanks
[11:31:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> your $1.50 board is likely lower quality though.
[11:31:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have some cheap ones like that.
[11:31:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> I avoid using them.
[11:31:40] <averovsky> I think I will buy something better to avoid some problems then
[11:31:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> I bought 20 of the wb-102 units from circuitspecialists.com some years ago.
[11:32:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> they all work as well as they did when I got them new...I think it was 10 years ago or so.
[11:32:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.circuitspecialists.com/wb-102+j.html
[11:32:47] <averovsky> Solid stuff
[11:32:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have my students buy one or two of those if they want to take stuff home with them.
[11:33:12] <averovsky> you are teacher ?
[11:33:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> that way they don't have to cut up cat5 cable to make jumpers.
[11:33:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> I teach kids on the side as a hobby.
[11:33:31] <averovsky> acha
[11:33:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> they come play in my workshop...I teach them basic electronics up through building robots from junk.
[11:34:01] <averovsky> My goal si to build balance bot
[11:34:12] <Tom_itx> been there
[11:34:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> those are relatively simple with the code out there for you already.
[11:34:28] <averovsky> bot not with arduino ;p
[11:34:31] <averovsky> to simple
[11:34:32] <averovsky> :)
[11:34:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've seen balancing software for ardweeny
[11:34:50] <Tom_itx> i used a 68332 on mine
[11:34:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> I built one from lego
[11:35:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> with a lego mindstorms controller (first generation) back about 12 years ago.
[11:35:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> written in NQC
[11:35:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> Not Quite C
[11:35:49] <averovsky> ardweeny what is it
[11:36:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> ardweeny = arduino
[11:36:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> arduino = microcontrollers for weenies
[11:36:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> = ardweeny
[11:37:11] <averovsky> acha :)
[11:37:22] <averovsky> So i dont like arudino
[11:37:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> the arduino hardware setup is nice.
[11:37:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> the software for arduino,,,,sucks.
[11:38:42] <averovsky> I dont have to much experience with arduino software
[11:38:51] <averovsky> you mean arduino core is not wirtten god ?
[11:38:56] <averovsky> good
[11:39:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> the IDE is horrid at best..or was last time I looked at it.
[11:39:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> and their libs are,,,*shudder*,,,not good.
[11:39:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://pastebin.com/dSRSxgax
[11:40:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> the digitalWrite and digitalRead are part of the wiring library that's integrated to arduino system....makes it "easier" to work with i/o....there are other things there too.
[11:40:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> but that's one example.
[11:40:41] <averovsky> This is a cost of simplicity... but it looks realy heavy
[11:40:44] <averovsky> really*
[11:40:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> yes...extremely.
[11:41:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> that's the kind of programming that has made software what it is today.
[11:41:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> bloated crap.
[11:41:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> the reason why a simple windows install is 8GB.
[11:42:43] <averovsky> today software has to be cross platform, thats why it also huge and not perfectly optimzed
[11:42:57] <averovsky> backward compatibility
[11:43:07] <averovsky> it is not easy, to have it really small
[11:43:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm a programmer...have been since the 80s.
[11:43:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> I know all about it.
[11:43:23] <averovsky> and sometimes there is no way to write something from scratch
[11:43:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> I also know how to make cross platform software that is also small and efficient.
[11:44:14] <averovsky> look how much things have changed in last 20 years
[11:44:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> the arduino code was written by slackers.
[11:44:20] <averovsky> this is really complicated
[11:44:36] <averovsky> Im generaly speaking, arduino is small project
[11:44:45] <averovsky> comparing to other big ones
[11:44:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> writing a simple bit out to a port on a microcontroller should not require 100 bytes of assembly code.
[11:45:04] <averovsky> agree with that
[11:45:15] <averovsky> thats why everyone have a choice
[11:46:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> we had full gui interface with X-windows on sun workstations with 64MB of ram on a 40MHz 68030 processor in 1988.
[11:46:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> it blew away windows 3.1 when that came out in 1992.
[11:47:06] <averovsky> Have you seen this
https://code.google.com/p/digitalwritefast/
[11:47:08] <averovsky> maybe its better
[11:47:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's ancient.
[11:47:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> not even updated since 2010.
[11:48:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> but, yes, I have seen it.
[11:48:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's an addon for the arduino system.
[11:48:18] <averovsky> anyway Im not goona use arduino to expensive for me
[11:48:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> you can get cheap arduino knockoffs from china for 3 to 5 dollars for the whole board.
[11:48:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> I wouldn't,,,,but I'm a bastard.
[11:49:14] <averovsky> hehe
[11:49:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> I won't support arduino just like I won't support sports in our universities.
[11:49:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> nor will I support any religious based charities...
[11:50:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> they might do good work,,,but I don't agree with the core values,,,and I'm a bastard.
[11:50:36] <averovsky> its your choice you dont have to but I seen many people who build many stuff and they are really happy
[11:50:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> to each their own.
[11:51:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> I suggest to people to learn the hardware underlying your software.
[11:51:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> then you can write better software.
[11:51:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> be it avr microcontrollers or x86 based PC
[11:51:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> the more you know about how it works the better you will be at creating software for it.
[11:52:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> thats why I teach these kids starting with "this is a battery, this is a wire, this is a light, this is a switch"
[11:53:03] <averovsky> It is good to have basics but sometimes it is not worth
[11:53:11] <averovsky> that depends from various things
[11:53:47] <averovsky> If I one to just use computer I that want to learn about linuxx or windows system scheduler :P
[11:53:56] <averovsky> I dont*
[11:54:32] <osteri> there is always more abstraction, like it or not
[11:54:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> we go through step by step....they aren't allowed to use a microcontroller until they can build and demonstrate a flipflop from logic gates.
[11:55:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have a whole course laid out for them and they love it the way we go through and actually learn how things work.
[11:55:15] <averovsky> They are lucky that they have someone like you who will teach them
[11:55:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> costs them nothing but time and they aren't required to come play.
[11:55:40] <osteri> arduino is just a learning platform, i don't get the hate, some people learn top->bottom some bottom->top
[11:55:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> I get impatient with people trying to do advanced things without understanding the underlying technology.
[11:56:30] <averovsky> This is crazy world and everyone want to go fast
[11:56:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup.
[11:56:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> and we need to slow down,,in my opinion.
[11:57:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> too many people come in here and ask how to do something with an AVR without having ever read the datasheet,,,or even the relevant section of the datasheet.
[11:57:24] <osteri> i don't get this ideology, so i have to know how calculator circuit is built to use it
[11:57:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> to program it effective and efficiently, yes.
[11:58:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> you don't have to know how a car works to drive it.
[11:58:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> but I would never let my kid drive my car unless they could change the oil, check the fluids, and change a tire.
[11:59:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> same with how I teach these kids about electronics and related subjects.
[11:59:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm always learning new stuff about what I'm teaching as I'm doing it too.
[12:00:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> never tell a student they are wrong unless I can prove it....and always accept that I don't know it all and be willing to learn.
[12:01:07] <averovsky> But in the real world if they get a job as a programmer they will need to learn fucking fast, they will need to be able to jump from tech A to tech B, from app programming to DB programming
[12:01:29] <averovsky> there is no time sometimes to learn everything from scratch
[12:01:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> so, look at a book about DB programming then go to an irc channel and ask people there how to do your job?
[12:02:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> or actually read the book and learn it yourself?
[12:03:09] <averovsky> You will not get enough from irc I think, sometimes it might help you
[12:03:20] <averovsky> but it is short way if we talk about job
[12:03:40] <averovsky> Noone will help you all the time
[12:03:55] <averovsky> basically you will quit the job you will have to much stress
[12:05:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> another view,,,who will fix it when it breaks?
[12:06:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> so many things are disposable today...people are too lazy or too ignorant(from lack of learning or ambition or both) to fix things.
[12:06:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> at my office, we had a 50 inch tv/monitor that went all green.
[12:06:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> could not find a single shop within an hour drive that could or would work on it.
[12:06:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> they threw it away.
[12:06:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> bought a new one.
[12:06:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> that tv is now hanging in my living room.
[12:07:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> I replaced two capacitors and it works fine.
[12:07:28] <Tom_itx> you should have volunteered to fix it sooner :)
[12:07:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> I was never even asked if I could fix it...they just assumed it was not fixable and threw it away.
[12:07:41] <averovsky> Good for you :)
[12:07:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> Tom_itx, I don't volunteer for anything anymore.
[12:07:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> gets me nowhere at work except more work.
[12:08:15] <Tom_itx> i'm getting closer to that point every day
[12:08:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> my point is, if people knew how things worked and were willing to actually think, they could save time, money, and resources...this is why I try to teach kids how to learn...step by step, learn to walk before trying to run, and think things through.
[12:09:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> like this problem presented here today about a project worked yesterday but didn't work today...
[12:09:54] <averovsky> Very often Im so tred after work that I will not try to fix my pipes, I will call plumber to do this
[12:09:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> think it through...what changed, what might have changed, what stayed the same, what might be the problems?
[12:10:01] <averovsky> I dont want to learn those things
[12:10:27] <averovsky> I dont have time I want to concentrate on things which are realy important for me, cause I dont have time
[12:11:00] <averovsky> thats why I will call someone and pay for it
[12:11:06] <averovsky> even it is easy
[12:11:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> or get on irc and ask for help without paying for it.
[12:11:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> :}
[12:11:33] <averovsky> yep
[12:11:39] <averovsky> :)
[12:12:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> ok..noonish.
[12:12:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've killed the morning and two kids will be here in half an hour to work on their robots.
[12:12:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> so, laters.
[12:12:45] <averovsky> thanks
[12:21:08] <Jartza> I made the plumbings myself
[12:21:12] <Jartza> but well.. I'm a plumber :)
[12:23:11] <Jartza> I also made a maze! :)
[12:23:11] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxX1h1MGRzWF9fVjA/view
[12:33:08] <Jartza> ...then hid it under the concrete
[12:33:09] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxYXRySUw0WmtVTnc/view
[12:54:49] <averovsky> Jartza: this will be your home ?
[12:54:51] <averovsky> :)
[13:04:21] <Jartza> one day, yes
[13:26:29] <inkjetunito> powered by avr?
[13:39:58] <Jartza> my home is powered by multiple avrs :)
[15:14:54] <antto> megal0maniac you got the ESP8266 toolchain up.. but hao?
[15:15:01] <antto> what OS?
[22:36:06] <rue_shop4> anyone have any clock source based on the m328?
[22:37:06] <Casper> is while(1) {pina ~= 0xff; } good enought?
[23:27:12] <rue_shop4> no.
[23:27:31] <rue_shop4> I'm thinking of using an IR remote to set/operate the clock
[23:27:39] <rue_shop4> I have a collection of them
