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[01:13:39] <Haohmaru> i need to have a bunch of FIFOs, but the chip doesn't have a lot of RAM.. is it a dumb idea to use an external SPI SRAM chip for fifos?
[01:25:22] <Haohmaru> ..SPI or parallel
[04:01:55] <uramhoaH> are atxmegas somehow different than atmegas?
[04:02:10] <uramhoaH> or is it just different naming
[04:03:53] <uramhoaH> oh.. 3V vs 5V
[04:04:25] <Xark> uramhoaH: It is the same instruction set (pretty much), but different I/O.
[04:04:51] <Xark> (Generally improved I/O too, things like DMA and DAC etc.)
[04:05:20] <uramhoaH> so you can still use avrgcc/avrdude and stuff like that?
[04:05:52] <uramhoaH> fatter atmega
[04:06:09] <Xark> uramhoaH: I believe so (but need different software).
[04:06:26] <uramhoaH> what different software?
[04:06:32] <Xark> uramhoaH: This is a decent overview of the differences :
http://www.evilmadscientist.com/2010/say-hello-to-xmega/
[04:06:38] <Xark> uramhoaH: I.e., different AVR code.
[04:07:00] <Tom_itx> xmegas have more registers etc
[04:09:11] <Xark> Tom_itx: You mean IO regs, vs GPRs, correct?
[04:10:01] <Tom_itx> probably both, i haven't worked with them yet
[04:10:26] <uramhoaH> if it's about different instructions - i don't care as long as avrgcc generates the right instructions ;P~
[04:10:45] <Tom_itx> it should
[04:10:53] <Xark> I have a breakout, and IIRC the ISA was pretty much the same (perhaps some new DES opcodes etc.). So, that entails pretty much same GPR setup. I have
http://www.batsocks.co.uk/products/BreadMate/XMega%20PDI%20AV.htm
[04:11:19] <Xark> uramhoaH: Yeah, avr-gcc and arc-libc do support them AFAIK.
[04:14:16] <Xark> Yeah, same "AVR 8-bit instruction set" for AVR ATmega and Xmega (with just a few cycle and opcode differences).
[04:15:39] <uramhoaH> okay.. so it smells good so far
[04:16:02] <Xark> uramhoaH: Faster too (up to 32Mhz supported in spec).
[05:02:16] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxcnJ3ZXNUellGd28/view?usp=sharing
[05:02:21] <Jartza> yay
[05:12:31] <Jartza> 32x12 characters on vga screen with attiny85 :)
[05:20:30] <Xark> Jartza: Nice. :) Looks like you solved your issues. :)
[05:22:17] <Jartza> yea
[05:22:22] <Jartza> font is still ugly
[05:23:29] <Jartza> that's actually made with C, I got more clock cycles by squeezing the font now to 4x7 :)
[05:23:46] <Jartza> oops, sorry, 5x7 still, but without space in between
[05:23:50] <Jartza> :)
[05:25:25] <Elec_A> Hello, Sorry I have a question. As you know Atmega32 has just 1 Usart. Is it possible to connect it to a max232 to connect to computer as well as another AVR ?
[05:26:06] <Elec_A> I mean i want to connect an AVR to another AVR and a Computer with USART. is it possible ?
[05:42:54] <Xark> Elec_A: I think it is fairly easy to send the same data to multiple destinations, but not receive.
[05:45:52] <uramhoaH> Elec_A you could connect the two AVRs via SPI or so, and then the USART is left free
[05:46:13] <Elec_A> uramhoaH: I am connecting two AVRs using Zigbee .
[05:46:26] <uramhoaH> whatbee?
[05:46:44] <Elec_A> Xbee
[05:47:36] <Elec_A> and I am using UART to connect to Xbees .
[06:16:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> Elec_A, you can bitbang a "virtual" UART
[06:17:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> uramhoaH, external sram is fun to use but it is not going to be nearly as fast as internal sram. I would get a bigger chip myself.
[06:18:28] <Jartza> verry happy now
[06:19:12] <Jartza> by pulling off the "impossible" ;)
[06:20:25] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxQlVINVFBd09DQVk/view
[06:21:16] <chickensk> Jartza, nice!
[06:21:58] <Jartza> font is still fugly, I just borrowed it from somewhere
[06:22:22] <chickensk> some tanks gaming on attiny an I will build this :D
[06:22:47] <chickensk> but really are there any good serial gamecontrollers?
[06:23:45] <Jartza> what, you can connect joystick to one pin and use adc ;)
[06:24:18] <chickensk> yes. but maybe in this case I dont mind another attinys as controllers :D
[06:24:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> you can do a 4 way digital joystick with multiple buttons and feed it all over one ADC pin.
[06:25:45] <Jartza> btw did you notice there's no empty space between letters
[06:27:02] <Jartza> I can make some "drawing" characters too
[06:27:12] <chickensk> no its not a problem
[06:27:28] <Elec_A> Lambda_Aurigae: I decided to use another AVR for UART and then use SPI to connect to the other avrs .
[06:27:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> Elec_A, that works too.
[06:28:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> Jartza, yeah, I saw that. Are you abusing the USI to do that?
[06:28:49] <Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: yeah, I am
[06:29:44] <Jartza> quite clockcycle-deprived this code
[06:30:10] <Jartza> adding one nop to hsync isr and monitor loses sync :D
[06:30:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> hehe.
[06:46:31] <LeoNerd> UART over USI is a little awkward as usually the bit order is wrong. USI doesn't have an endian control bit
[06:47:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah.
[06:48:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> I would just bitbang a UART myself generally if it were that or use the USI.
[06:48:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> most of the stuff I've done with attiny chips hasn't needed uart comms though so I've lucked out.
[06:55:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> hmm..just reading my processor specs.
[06:55:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> the processor is capable of handling 256GB of ram with a 48bit bus.
[06:56:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> I think the motherboard supports a quarter of that.
[06:57:04] <LeoNerd> Some tinies of course do have UARTs now anyway
[06:57:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> I really need to get four 16GB sticks for it.
[06:57:16] <LeoNerd> 2313, 841, 1623
[06:57:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> the 2313 has it?
[06:57:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> interesting.
[06:57:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> not sure if I have any of those though.
[06:57:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> and the others are SMT which means I don't have any.
[07:06:49] <apo_> Can't fit my interrupt into four registers because mulsu always writes r0:r1 and needs r16-r23 as input, and load indirect needs registers in r26-r31 :(
[07:42:33] <Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: yeah, I got rid of the blank between letters because I realized one funny thing from USI
[07:43:26] <Jartza> if I put byte into USI data register, but don't shift the whole byte out, the one bit that is "waiting" will fire out from USI immediately when writing new byte into data register
[07:43:40] <Jartza> so in reality I only clock 4 bits out and then push new byte in
[07:43:50] <Jartza> the fifth comes out "free" while loading new data
[07:46:57] <Strangework> Lambda_Aurigae, how's your VGA Pic project coming along?
[07:52:13] <apo_> https://github.com/Cat-Ion/atmega328-midi-synthesizer/blob/master/nco.h#L44 so, uh, do I need to put something in the output registers section to tell gcc that I'm modifying a bunch of variables (phase[n], vel_bak[n]...)?
[07:59:44] <swex> hi there
[07:59:53] <swex> can anybody advice mehow
[08:00:10] <swex> how to join channel only after nickserv identify me?
[08:00:30] <swex> sorry
[08:00:33] <swex> wrong channel
[08:01:02] <Strangework> lol
[08:09:14] <Jartza> Strangework: I don't know about Lambda_Aurigae, but my VGA from attiny85 is progressing nicely :)
[08:09:46] <Jartza> Strangework:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxQlVINVFBd09DQVk/view
[08:10:16] <Jartza> fugly font, but I'm currently fixing it
[08:10:25] <Jartza> I just lended that font somewhere to get me started
[08:10:46] <LeoNerd> Jartza: Oooh :)
[08:11:21] <Jartza> ;)
[08:24:36] <Strangework> Jartza, I am liking it! :D Are you documenting your progress on a blog of any kind?
[08:25:18] <Jartza> yes
[08:25:22] <Jartza> will be eventually
[08:25:25] <Jartza> to labs.rakettitiede.com
[08:27:08] <Strangework> Keep me in the loop, it looks like a pleasantly tangible piece of work
[08:28:40] <apo_> hm, it'd be nice if I could tell gcc not to clear r1
[08:34:52] <LeoNerd> Make a naked function?
[09:32:18] <Jartza> well
[09:32:23] <Jartza> much better
[09:34:02] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxRUw5UmxKQ01BakU/view?usp=sharing
[09:34:22] <Jartza> upper is the font I just hacked together and lower is the font I lent somewhere (can't even remember anymore)
[09:34:37] <Jartza> IMO the upper is much more readable
[09:34:59] <Jartza> (and yes, it now has both fonts, because I store full load of 256 fonts, 2kB)
[09:35:57] <Strangework> The top font is definitely more readable. I also enjoy the vertical elongation - lokos ominous
[09:36:21] <Strangework> I'm wondering what is going on with the middle font's ampersand.. :P
[09:37:01] <LeoNerd> Ohyes that's much improved
[09:38:11] <uramhoaH> can i check if my avr-gcc supports atxmega?
[09:38:22] <uramhoaH> cuz i have the feeling that it doesn't
[09:50:02] <Jartza> how about now?
[09:50:03] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxU1RReTJDNFpUX2s/view?usp=sharing
[09:51:44] <Jartza> actually much much better if compared to previous
[09:52:56] <Jartza> but the text lies :D
[09:53:07] <Jartza> I forgot to change that because I first tried bitbanging
[09:58:03] <Jartza> I think this is fucking awesome :)
[10:12:37] <apo_> LeoNerd: can't, using non-basic asm
[10:13:39] <Strangework> Jartza: this looks very crisp!! Way to go! Are you using an external clock? Does the image flicker at all?
[10:14:09] <Jartza> there's a closeup:
https://slack-files.com/files-pub/T02FEAMUS-F07D0KJDU-86a3973aac/img_20150709_174418.jpg
[10:14:13] <Jartza> this time with green only
[10:14:15] <Jartza> no jitter
[10:14:15] <Jartza> :)
[10:14:29] <Jartza> and yea, I'm using external 20MHz osc (didn't want to overclock attiny85)
[10:15:26] <Jartza> Strangework: it's actually much crisper than the picture, but I need some kind of stand for my phone to take photo that doesn't shake :D
[10:21:18] <Jartza> Strangework:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxWHNqcVF2NHh1Qnc/view
[10:21:27] <Jartza> here's a picture that hasn't shaken so much :)
[10:31:32] <apo_> huh, my interrupt handler doesn't work if I try to transmit data over the uart...
[10:33:20] <Jartza> that's feature :(
[11:16:46] <Jartza> hehe
[11:16:47] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxTFBuTnlERDI5QWs/view
[11:16:57] <Jartza> tried different line drawing characters to font
[11:24:27] <aandrew> what's funny is that I have an LG flatron monitor too (not 4:3 but still)
[11:32:19] <Jartza> I found this from weee-trash
[11:32:51] <Jartza> that's why I thought it doesn't hurt to try vga from attiny with it
[11:43:23] <bss36504> Neat-o!
[11:43:45] <Strangework> Jartza, how could it actually hurt? :o
[11:44:16] <Jartza> Strangework: I don't know, but I wouldn't want to risk my new monitor :)
[11:53:43] <Strangework> Heh, that's a sound approach ;)
[11:54:13] <Jartza> but with monitor that cost nothing - just go for it
[11:54:33] <Jartza> if it explodes and burns - just ventilate and throw it away ;)
[13:18:36] <zed___> Jartza: don't let out the magic smoke
[13:23:04] <Jartza> zed___: yea, it's difficult to get back in
[13:29:04] <zed___> Jartza: well then it gets infected in all the other components too, and suddenly your room is full of magic smoke being let out
[13:29:42] <Jartza> that'd be bad
[13:41:49] <Jartza> or how about also reverse text?
[13:41:53] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxR3YtVGZrWG15Vm8/view?usp=sharing
[13:45:53] * zed___ slaps lald around with a smelly trout
[13:45:54] <zed___> lald:
[13:46:52] <lald> Howdy zed. You appear to ghost a lot.
[13:47:04] <lald> my hilights are decent, you don't have to lead with lald:
[13:47:29] <zed___> My highlights aren't that great, i need to get them redone. for a while they looked like the backstreet boys
[13:48:04] <zed___> I do ghost a lot, until I have some stupid question about why this doesn't work
[13:48:08] <zed___> in r25, PIND
[13:48:12] <zed___> out PINB, r25
[13:48:15] <zed___> for lighting up LEDs
[13:48:19] <lald> I meant your underscores.
[13:48:25] <lald> it looks like you d/c and r/c a lot.
[13:48:33] <zed___> well that's my current highscore
[13:48:43] <zed___> anytime i defeat an enemy in battle I add more underscores
[13:48:47] <lald> I see
[16:21:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> Jartza, very good work there...what's your native resolution?
[16:43:00] <Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: 640x480@60
[16:43:13] <Jartza> the so called "industry standard vga"
[16:43:29] <Jartza> or the native resolution of the monitor? I think 1280x1024
[16:55:50] <Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: and I got so far that I have now 8 + 5 cycles to spend in hsync isr
[16:56:14] <Jartza> 8 inside hsync pulse, there are now 8 NOPs just for timing, and when drawing ;)
[16:56:23] <Jartza> not too shabby
[17:16:28] <zed___> i like how sleeping works with avr. every asm tutorial just says "figure out a way to waste those cycles with nested loops!"
[17:27:58] <apo_> https://github.com/Cat-Ion/atmega328-midi-synthesizer/blob/master/nco.h#L50 it works!
[17:28:02] <apo_> might even be fast enough to run all six channels with volume transitions
[17:30:30] <MarkX> hi
[17:33:24] <MarkX> i made this quick schematic >>
https://www.dropbox.com/s/evl8se2n2ilef62/schematic.jpg?dl=0 << (already fixed the INT pin issue). everything is SMD and the pcb I made is tiny. any suggestions on how i can approach the programming the attiny85 portion of this?
[17:42:45] <Jartza> well. now I have 19+9 bytes
[17:44:54] <Jartza> oops. cycles
[18:03:47] <zed___> what's the difference between "and" and "andi"? one's immediate? makes little sense. why have an instruction that doesn't do the action immediately?
[18:04:58] <Jartza> immediate means, you give value to and with
[18:05:10] <Jartza> "non-immediate" means you give register to and with
[18:05:20] <Jartza> but of course, you need to first load some value to that other register
[18:05:52] <Jartza> "andi r16, 42" will and contents of r16 with value 42 and place the result back to r16
[18:06:18] <Jartza> "and r16, r2" will AND contents of r16 with whatever is in r2 and place result back to r16
[18:06:39] <Jartza> hence the "immediate" because you don't need to load any values to other register
[18:06:47] <zed___> makes sense
[18:06:53] <Jartza> but those immediates only work for register r16..r31
[18:07:12] <zed___> seems like r0-r15 are basically the red headed step children of the register world
[18:07:20] <zed___> no instructions want to worth with them
[18:07:34] <zed___> want to work*
[18:21:41] <MarkX> oh hi Jartza , fancy seeing you here
[18:21:42] <MarkX> hahaha
[18:29:16] <Jartza> MarkX: :D
[18:29:23] <apo_> zed___: pff, instruction register requirements are a mess. :( I couldn't get my interrupt handler to use 4 instead of 6 registers because mulsu does [r16-r23]x[r16-r23]->r1:r0, and ld needs X, Y, or Z...
[18:29:37] <Jartza> https://github.com/Jartza/attiny85-vga
[18:30:21] <Jartza> (work in progress)
[18:30:39] <apo_> Jartza: nice
[18:31:03] <zed___> Jartza: next step, attiny hdmi
[18:31:43] <apo_> Jartza: FYI, you can tell gcc to unroll a loop, you don't have to do it yourself
[18:32:10] <apo_> __attribute__((optimize("unroll-loops")))
[18:32:38] <Jartza> apo_: I know, but this is more or less living target and I've been changing back and forth :)
[18:32:46] <apo_> okay
[18:33:41] <Jartza> it's a very critical to timing and very cramped, so I've tested different ways
[18:33:59] <Jartza> that's basically just a concept-demo, next I'll cramp it to assembler to save more cycles and then add UART ;)
[18:34:50] <Jartza> with asm I can be more precise and get rid of the ISR which is just there for easier timing
[18:35:34] <apo_> hmm, with... four more cycles per channel I should be able to use variable waveforms for my synth
[18:35:40] <apo_> but that's a lot of cycles :V
[18:47:52] <Jartza> so, did you find the Dragon yet from the picture?
[18:48:46] <apo_> yup
[18:48:59] <apo_> I see at least two, actually
[18:50:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> Jartza, why only 5 bits through the usi? can't do 8 bits?
[18:51:24] <Jartza> no time for it, at least with C
[18:51:45] <Jartza> let's see with asm
[18:52:04] <Jartza> I first want to add the uart so the texts can be updated
[18:54:25] <apo_> Jartza: so, which dragon were you talking about? :p
[18:54:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> so you are only using 5 bits of the stored data and buffer...
[18:54:43] <Jartza> yes
[18:54:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> odd that you can't go ahead and keep popping it out and use the rest of the bits.
[18:54:47] <Jartza> doesn't matter
[18:55:00] <Jartza> well I'm again running out of time
[18:55:26] <Jartza> apo_: well in that picture of the vga image
[18:55:40] <apo_> well, yes
[18:55:49] <apo_> but you said "the" dragon, and I see two
[18:56:24] <Jartza> apo_: oh, true ;)
[18:56:31] <apo_> :D
[18:56:59] <Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: there's 28 NOPs in that hsync, but it's as much as you can have there. adding one more and the sync goes off-sync :)
[18:57:34] <Jartza> but yeah, even 6x8 would be nicer
[18:57:35] <Jartza> let's see
[18:58:10] <Jartza> the fonts would look much nicer with 6x8 than 5x8
[18:59:20] <apo_> .oO( Man, it's been years since I played nethack. )
[18:59:33] <Jartza> I played last week
[18:59:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> do you think you can generate hsync and vsync to hit 800x600 res output?
[19:00:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> I think 800x600@60hz matches your 20MHz crystal more closely.
[19:01:20] <Jartza> why?
[19:01:28] <Jartza> then I have even less time to draw pixels
[19:01:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah.
[19:01:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> still working out your whole logic thing here.
[19:01:58] <Jartza> 20us instead of 25.4us :)
[19:02:23] <Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: ah yeah. just released it "early", I'm going to write an article about it later on
[19:02:29] <apo_> 800px in 400 cycles? :D
[19:03:09] <Jartza> apo_: yeah, just call the magic undocumented "mpsh" instruction ;)
[19:03:13] <Jartza> multipush
[19:03:20] <Jartza> hits 8 bits out in one cycle
[19:03:38] <apo_> I thought it was called 'out' :p
[19:04:11] <Jartza> yeah. then just slow down few bits so they arrive in nice order.
[19:04:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> I need to read up more on the USI too.
[19:04:47] <apo_> Jartza: maybe a few 555s
[19:05:21] <Jartza> anyway I'll keep people informed about the article, which is not nearly finished yet
[19:05:35] <Jartza> and won't be in few weeks as I'm leaving country on sunday and coming back after 10 days
[19:05:42] <Jartza> this was just something fun to do on vacation
[19:06:14] <Jartza> I'm still quite happy to get 160x96 pixels out with readable font on that tiny beast
[19:06:37] <Jartza> or "pixels"
[19:06:57] <Jartza> yea, I can push pixels out faster than that, but if I want to also read the font from program memory, it's slow
[19:07:27] <Jartza> lpm itself takes 3 cycles and first Z needs to be set of course
[19:08:27] <apo_> damn cycle counting :)
[19:09:30] <Jartza> yep
[19:09:55] <Jartza> but I plan to get rid of the ISR, that'll give many cycles
[19:10:25] <apo_> I'm not sure if I can do my thing without the ISR
[19:10:38] <Jartza> isr delay plus all the pushing and popping
[19:10:44] <apo_> It gives me a fixed frequency, which NCOs kind of need
[19:10:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> Jartza, just run it full bore in main()?
[19:11:16] <Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: cycle counting is very hard to do in C
[19:11:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah.
[19:11:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> I could see doing this like they did v-usb
[19:11:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> the isr being assembly, the wrapper in C
[19:12:03] <Jartza> but yeah, I'm moving to asm totally
[19:12:14] <apo_> I could disable the volume adjustments, but that would sound bad
[19:12:18] <Jartza> as I don't really even need a wrapper
[19:12:26] <apo_> or I could make all paths slow, but I don't think that'd gain me speed =P
[19:12:34] <apo_> Plus serial handling takes variable time ~_~
[19:13:01] <Jartza> that wrapper just sets the timer which I don't need if the whole thibgamabob runs in one big "main"
[19:13:16] <apo_> maybe you wouldn't notice it if the events happen infrequently enough :D
[19:13:31] <Jartza> and with asm it's easier to make loops that lose certain amount of cycles
[19:15:17] <apo_> Coincidentally, after today I don't think I'll be looking at TIS-100 for a while
[19:18:19] <zed___> /who/whois apo_
[19:18:26] <zed___> boop.
[19:18:31] <zed___> what a failure.
[19:18:37] <apo_> Hi.
[19:19:06] <zed___> Just curious as to who's playing TIS-100
[19:19:19] <apo_> Nerds =P
[19:47:35] <MarkX> zed___: i played a bit of it... its awesome
[22:19:24] <MarkX> i made this quick schematic >>
https://www.dropbox.com/s/evl8se2n2ilef62/schematic.jpg?dl=0 << (already fixed the INT pin issue). everything is SMD and the pcb I made is tiny. any suggestions on how i can approach programming the attiny85 portion of this?
[22:21:21] <aandrew> MarkX: don't make ground point "up" for starters, use a regular old A frame paper. THe board will be tiny, no need to get cutesy with the scheamtic ot make it small too
[22:21:42] <MarkX> oh hi aandrew ;)
[22:22:12] <MarkX> thats the old version, i already fixed gnds and some other things suggested
[22:22:29] <MarkX> my issue now is i gotta program this and it doesn't have a usb bootloader off the bat
[22:22:49] <aandrew> as far as making it easy to program... you've got MISO on a usb line... is there any way you can get MOSI there and use reset maybe on the OTG pin (have to check the level on that first)... it's *almost* going to fit
[22:25:46] <aandrew> failing that... try
http://www.daniel-spilker.com/blog/2011/04/25/isptouch-for-avr-microcontrollers/
[22:25:50] <aandrew> Jartza used it
[22:28:03] <MarkX> wait, does that just sit over the chip and touch the pins?
[22:28:10] <aandrew> no
[22:28:23] <aandrew> it uses a "2 SOT-23" footprint and touches them
[22:28:32] <aandrew> zero-cost PCB (no parts)
[22:28:36] <aandrew> sh
[22:28:56] <MarkX> ah
[22:29:03] <MarkX> dang i got excited it fit over the chip
[22:29:05] <MarkX> that'd be badass
[22:29:07] <Casper> my main concern there is if you use spi to program it
[22:30:05] <MarkX> well is there anyway i can program the chip off the board before soldering it on? that way i can put a usb bootloader on it
[22:30:05] <aandrew> yes you use SPI to program it
[22:30:15] <aandrew> why is that an issue Casper?
[22:30:16] <Casper> also, might want to add a provision for a pullup on reset (which for spi you need it too)
[22:30:45] <Casper> you have a 1k5 load on miso, which possibly can cause issue
[22:30:55] <aandrew> very unlikely
[22:31:33] <Casper> any load on the programming pins is a potential issue... 1k5 is probably not an issue however, but... my atmega88pa-pu were that picky
[22:31:44] <Casper> however... I think it was a bad batch, they all failed soon after...
[22:32:25] <aandrew> if your programmer can't handle <5mA load on MISO...
[22:32:32] <aandrew> actually it's the AVR that would be responsible
[22:33:52] <MarkX> see i wanted to end up doing this >>
http://www.instructables.com/id/Digispark-DIY-The-smallest-USB-Arduino/?ALLSTEPS
[22:34:15] <MarkX> but it uses thruhole
[22:35:16] <Casper> beware, instructables are full of major mistakes... less now it seems, but...
[22:36:13] <MarkX> oh ya for sure. i just wanted to show, i'm basically looking for a way to program the smd attiny85... then put it on my board
[22:37:00] <MarkX> hmm
[22:37:15] <MarkX> maybe i can tape it down on some copper and just use a breadboard to program it
[22:37:18] <Casper> man people call the firefighters for nothing...
[22:37:31] <Casper> this guy call the firefighters to take a look at his thermopump
[22:37:39] <Casper> a relay broke and some wires melted
[22:38:07] <Casper> he was worried (about what? the house wiring is most likelly fine, if not... sue the installer because he seriously fucked up)
[22:38:18] <Hexum064> good evening all
[22:45:08] <MarkX> screw it
[22:45:18] <MarkX> i gotta order parts from adafruit anways
[22:45:23] <MarkX> i'll just get something like ths
[22:45:24] <MarkX> http://www.adafruit.com/products/1206
[23:03:06] <j9k> couldn't you lay out the board you want in the first place for the same price
