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[00:54:24] <stevejobsinhell> what kind of data is put on an external EEPROM? Can you put more code there if the .hex file is too large?
[00:54:31] <stevejobsinhell> such as a library?
[00:55:17] <Xark> stevejobsinhell: Generally no.
[00:55:36] <stevejobsinhell> ok so what is typically put on an external eeprom?
[00:55:43] <Xark> stevejobsinhell: Data.
[00:55:59] <stevejobsinhell> ahh. hard coded data.
[00:56:07] <Casper> config, parameter, look up table
[00:56:07] <Xark> stevejobsinhell: AVR can only execute code from flash (other than a few chips that support external memory).
[00:57:22] <Xark> ...bitmaps, interpreted code etc.
[02:48:04] <rue_house> if you want to execute from ram, use a 8051
[03:10:27] <Jartza_> or arm
[03:10:50] <Jartza_> cortex m -series has nice and cheap chips
[07:36:26] <martinus> Does anyone have any recommendations on solid, cheap(ish) usb to serial converters for hobbist experimentation that would be built into a project long(ish) term?
[07:36:47] <martinus> Trying to avoid the Chinese FTDI knock-offs.
[07:38:07] <specing> chinese PL2303 knock-offs?
[07:38:50] <specing> you basically get a whole board + cables for what you would pay for the chip itself
[07:40:04] <martinus> :D
[07:41:06] <martinus> I've been burnt a couple of times in the past where the soldering was rubbish and the board failed.
[07:41:30] <martinus> The boards were so poorly manufactured that reworking them was a lost-cause.
[07:43:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> I just build my own
[07:44:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> usually from a pic16f or pic18f with hardware usb.
[07:45:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> or, lately, a pic32 chip.
[07:47:15] <martinus> Isn't that a sledgehammer for a nut approach? :)
[07:47:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> usually.
[07:47:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> pic16f with usb-cdc code on it is doable though.
[07:47:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> the microchip usb-cdc adapter chip is just that actually.
[08:10:20] <LeoNerd> PL2303s are nice
[08:12:10] * Xark finds FTDI more reliable with better drivers.
[08:16:39] <LeoNerd> Eh
[08:17:03] <LeoNerd> I've gone off FTDI lately... their recent stunt with the clone-destroying drivers was just Not On
[08:17:21] <specing> one chip de-capper was once ranting how much FTDI sucks
[08:17:45] <specing> the FT3203 or something went through like 15 silicon revisions
[08:19:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> the microchip mcp2200...is a pic17f14k50 with usb-cdc software and read locked flash.
[08:19:58] <martinus> Xark: Agreed. I tried using a PL2303 with my telescope mount, unfortunately it wasn't very reliable compared to a legit FTDI converter.
[08:20:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> you can actually erase the chip and use it for your own purposes.
[09:07:47] <rue_house> is the 2303 a firmware uart?
[09:08:12] <Tom_itx> g'day mr rue_house
[09:10:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> pl-2303 is a prolific device..no clue what it is at the core.
[09:10:40] <LeoNerd> I treat it as a black box.
[09:10:48] <LeoNerd> (mine comes ... in a black box. :) )
[09:10:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> as do most people with most usb-cdc devices.
[09:41:30] <rue_house> Tom_itx, hey
[09:52:28] <aandrew> PL2303 <shudders>
[09:52:36] <aandrew> FTDI 4 lyfe
[09:52:48] <rue_house> whats wrong with pl2303?
[09:52:49] <aandrew> mind you
[09:53:05] <rue_house> vs ftdis malicious firmware updates
[09:53:11] <aandrew> FTDI's fiasco where they blew away the vid/pid of clones is something I don't condone
[09:53:23] <aandrew> yeah. they backpedaled on that pretty fast
[09:53:31] <aandrew> but still the damage to their image was done
[09:53:39] <rue_house> only cause they got found out
[09:53:50] <aandrew> I've never had a working PL2303. I think the hardware is fine, but the drivers are shit
[09:54:01] <rue_house> ooh your using windows aren't you?
[09:54:10] <aandrew> there isn't a working driver for osx, linux of course works because they'll hack around everything
[09:54:13] <aandrew> no actually
[09:54:33] <aandrew> I haven't run windows as a main computer (only as VMs) for... damn over 15 years
[09:54:52] <rue_house> if its for a mac, you have to buy things with a apple logo on them.
[09:55:03] <aandrew> was linux for many many many years, but went to the dark side (osx) about 5 years ago
[09:55:16] <aandrew> still develop for linux but as a user interface osx pretty much won me over
[09:55:22] <aandrew> rue_house: nonsense
[09:56:37] <aandrew> real unix underneath and a largely consistent and functional UI.. yeah man. I miss some linuxisms and I *hate* some of the changes osx is making as it progresses but can't argue with (most of) the results
[09:57:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> you LIKE the osx user interface?
[09:57:59] * Lambda_Aurigae gets out the cross, holy water, and garlic scarf.
[09:58:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> wish I could get a copy of the source for unix system V release III and suntools.
[09:58:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> those rocked!
[09:59:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> 1988, we had full gui interface, with optical mouse, on a 68040 processor with 64MB of ram.
[09:59:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> on modified sun 3/260 workstations.
[10:00:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> the gui was fast, responsive, easy to program for, and looked good.
[10:00:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> hell, even fun to program for.
[10:01:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> I spent many hours writing software on those machines during the 11pm to 7am shift while locked in the vault.
[10:04:01] <kdehl> Alright. RAM works. Took me only three days. µC and external SRAM.
[10:14:23] <aandrew> Lambda_Aurigae: haha
[10:14:34] <aandrew> Lambda_Aurigae: I like that it's largely consistent and that it pretty much stays out of the way
[10:14:59] <aandrew> I don't like how I can't tune certain things, but I like it WAY more than the win9x/7/8 interface
[10:15:19] <aandrew> I love xfce's interface, I like how simple it is and how I can really mangle it if I so choose
[10:38:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> aandrew, the standard osx interface just bugs the shit out of me.
[10:40:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> the biggest part being the consolidated menu bar at the top of the screen, not at the top of each window where it belongs.
[10:41:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> and that ribbon thing at the bottom...eeww.
[10:45:04] <aandrew> Lambda_Aurigae: the thing at the top yes takes some getting used to. the thing at the bottom (or the side for me) is no different than the windows taskbar or the taskbar on most of the linux windowing managers
[10:45:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's far different.
[10:45:27] <aandrew> it's different, but not terribly different. the goofy shit I am sick of are the way they change little things and have no way to go back to the old way
[10:45:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> although, I never had time to figure out how to make it functional for me.
[10:46:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> I don't like all the apps tacked to the bar like windows likes you to do.
[10:46:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> and grouping window icons just bugs the living snot out of me.
[10:46:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> if I have 4 firefox windows open I want to see 4 icons in the taskbar dangit!
[10:47:50] <martinus> You can switch off grouping (at least one can in Win 7)
[10:48:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah, I know you can in windows.
[10:48:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> which I am forced to use at work.
[10:48:31] <Shavik> Any thoughts on why one of these signatures has a "struct" while the other doesn't? They both reference FILE in the code. 'int (*)(char, struct __file*)' 'int UART::PutChar(char, __file*)'
[10:48:43] <Shavik> I'm writing my own uart driver for the ATMega2560.
[10:49:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> the second one seems to be using C++ formatting.
[10:49:43] <Shavik> Yes
[10:49:45] <Shavik> I am using C++
[10:49:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> C++ is less strict in some things than C.
[10:49:59] <Shavik> Well attempting to :)
[10:51:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> ok..gotta run...going to see wifey's grandmother.
[10:51:30] <Shavik> With #define FILE struct __file being in stdio, and in my class definition, int UART::PutChar(char c, FILE *stream). I figured it'd compile to that but from the compiler error, it appears it's converting it the __file struct which then means it doesn't match the signature
[11:32:50] <twnqx> i stil don't have the slightest clue why people use that file stuff on µCs...
[11:33:39] <LeoNerd> fprintf(uart_out, "Debug: x=%d\n", x); can be really handy
[11:34:00] <LeoNerd> I usually set up an output file stream over the UART if I'm not using it for much else
[11:34:39] <twnqx> and that's so much better sprintf (buffer, "Debug: x=%d\n", x); uart_send (buffer); ?
[11:35:01] <LeoNerd> Shorter. less typing
[11:35:04] <twnqx> or uart_printf ("Debug: x=%d\n", x); as i use it
[11:35:17] <twnqx> sicne i have the tx buffer anyway
[11:35:19] <LeoNerd> When I'm annoyed that something doesn't work, I want to type small amounts and work it out
[11:35:31] <twnqx> so it saves me the ram (for the doubled buffer)
[11:36:09] <twnqx> and the overhead of using some strange file structure for the usually one possible target
[11:37:07] <twnqx> maybe i am the only one who constantly has to shuffle his programs around to make use of the tiny ram and rom :X
[11:37:13] <Shavik> Yea, I was just doing this for a 4 uart chip
[11:38:12] <Shavik> so I was trying to be clever and write an object based driver for the different uarts with internal references to each's file struct that can be passed to vfprintf
[11:38:16] <Shavik> Open to better ideas :/
[11:38:27] <LeoNerd> Sounds fine to me
[11:38:33] <twnqx> dunno, i don't believe in OOP
[11:38:53] <Shavik> I'm quite annoyed with this not currently working. Would be nice to have I/O before I start on the sensors
[11:38:54] <twnqx> it's only more to type and more genrated code to me for no benefit
[11:41:08] <Shavik> Leonerd, you mentioned setting up an output file stream
[11:41:24] <Shavik> I feel thats what I'm doing is it not? I'm using fdevopen
[11:41:31] <LeoNerd> Hah
[11:41:35] <LeoNerd> don't use that one, that wants to malloc()
[11:41:40] <Shavik> :/
[11:41:46] <Shavik> Which should I use?
[11:42:03] <LeoNerd> FILE uart_out = FDEV_SETUP_STREAM(_putc, NULL, _FDEV_SETUP_WRITE);
[11:42:06] <LeoNerd> Is what I do
[11:42:17] <LeoNerd> Then later on you can fprintf(&uart_out, ...)
[11:42:34] <LeoNerd> Now here I just have one UART and use NULL, but you can put whatever you want in there
[11:42:44] <Shavik> Yea, I have RX Vects setup
[11:42:47] <Shavik> for Don't really need get
[11:44:26] <Shavik> Hmm
[11:44:39] <Shavik> Whats the difference between fprintf and vfprintf?
[11:45:38] <LeoNerd> The former takes a ... and the latter takes a va_list
[11:45:43] <LeoNerd> (That's a generic C thing)
[11:46:11] <Shavik> Ah, thats what the v stands for
[11:46:12] <Shavik> ok
[11:46:36] <Shavik> Oh boy . non-trivial designated initializers
[11:51:33] <Shavik> Also, why is it bad that fdevopen wants to malloc?
[11:52:01] <LeoNerd> Because then you need an entire malloc system
[11:52:07] <LeoNerd> Most MCU applications don't need that
[11:53:28] <Shavik> So is FDEV_SETUP_STREAM not work from C++?
[11:53:31] <Shavik> so does*
[11:55:11] <LeoNerd> I've no idea. I dislike C++ on MCUs also
[11:55:15] <LeoNerd> (Well, I dislike C++ period ;) )
[11:55:42] <Shavik> :/
[11:55:52] <Shavik> ok well I appreciate your help so far
[11:59:13] * twnqx hugs LeoNerd
[12:04:05] <Shavik> 'int (UART::)(__file*)' 'int (*)(__file*)' You guys may not know since this is C++ :/ but what is the difference between the UART:: and the *
[12:04:13] <Shavik> UART being the class type?
[12:04:28] <Shavik> I guess I don't understand what the * means in that case
[12:26:24] <Shavik> The more I look into this, the more I keep thinking about how I should probably rewrite this in C
[13:02:02] <proteusguy> Shavik, :: is the scope operator for C++. You'd need to see what the definition of UART is. Also the declaration/expression you're quoting is probably incomplete. Need more context to see what you're talking about.
[13:02:31] <Shavik> Well I wrote the whole UART class
[13:02:38] <Shavik> But have just mostly rewritten it in C :P
[13:02:41] <proteusguy> Meanwhile, for MCU/embedded work you should think of C as a platform independent assembly language and C++ as a better, type safe, C.
[13:04:10] <proteusguy> Through the use of templates you can actually make code in C++ that is more expressive and efficient than is reasonably possible to do in C. C++ is an excellent language for embedded and small systems so long as you know how it works. Has saved me from tons of heachaches while allowing me to conceptualize my applications at a much higher level than C or asm would ever allow.
[13:08:17] <Shavik> My C driver works. :D
[13:08:41] <Shavik> http://gyazo.com/ff27ae124bb0e1840c29ea57256aab86
[13:22:56] <Hexum064> Major first world problem: I need coffee badly, but the maintenance guy is here to replace my garbage disposal, so I have to wait.
[15:02:48] <stevejobsinhell> hi
[15:02:56] <stevejobsinhell> if I want my servo to move slower (or faster), I adjust the frequency correct?
[15:03:38] <tpw_rules> no
[15:03:52] <tpw_rules> a servo motor in which you send 1ms pulses?
[15:03:56] <tpw_rules> every 20ms or so
[15:04:07] <stevejobsinhell> yeah standard hobby servos
[15:04:13] <tpw_rules> change the width of the first pulse. 0.5 is max backwards, adn 1.5 is max forwards
[15:04:30] <stevejobsinhell> yeah but when it turns it goes too fast
[15:04:30] <tpw_rules> if it only moves 180 degrees or so those are the position extremes
[15:04:41] <tpw_rules> oh, you can't really change the speed
[15:04:47] <stevejobsinhell> oh ok.
[15:04:53] <tpw_rules> it's designed to go faster the farther away from the desired position it is
[15:04:57] <LeoNerd> A servo tries to *be at the position* corresponding to the duty cycle of the control pulse
[15:04:58] <tpw_rules> you could program the code to slowly change the position
[15:05:10] <LeoNerd> If you want it to move slowly and smoothly, you will have to slowly and smoothly change that duty cycle
[15:05:10] <stevejobsinhell> sure. what technique ?
[15:05:16] <stevejobsinhell> ok
[15:05:27] <stevejobsinhell> like make it creep?
[15:05:35] <tpw_rules> yeah. just send like, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
[15:05:37] <tpw_rules> instead of 1, 5
[15:05:55] <stevejobsinhell> good idea.
[15:08:08] <stevejobsinhell> Also, I'm trying to figure out the proper settings for my sump logic analyzer to look at PWM signals. Should I set the sampling rate = period?
[15:08:28] <stevejobsinhell> my crappy little logic analyzer can't see them coming. pwm it's triggering it.
[17:01:39] <Babaum> hi guys... I am thinking about buying some stm8 MCU from STMicroelectronics... I want to know where I can learn the basics and what projects can I do as sample...
[18:26:30] <Jartza> WTF USI?
[18:26:44] <Jartza> how can the speed change depending on data :)
[18:27:24] <Jartza> like. pushing 01010101 out from USI is slower (!) than pushing 00000000
[18:27:38] <Jartza> I thought running one opcode is always the same?
[18:28:17] <Jartza> even pushing 11111111 is faster than 0101010101
[18:28:22] <Hexum064> ...
[18:28:42] <Hexum064> I would post that in AVRFreaks
[18:33:28] <Jartza> exactly the same code :D
[18:33:50] <Jartza> but it's like the code runs slower when sending 01010101
[18:35:35] <Hexum064> no idea on that one
[18:37:50] <Jartza> Writing a one to this bit location strobes the USI Data Register to shift one step and the counter to increment by one, provided that the software clock strobe option has been selected by writing USICS[1:0] bits to zero. The out- put will change immediately when the clock strobe is executed, i.e., during the same instruction cycle. The value shifted into the USI Data Register is sampled the previous instruction cycle.
[18:37:58] <Jartza> that's what the datasheet says
[19:24:19] <stevejobsinhell> hi
[19:24:52] <stevejobsinhell> tpw_rules: If I'm creeping a servo, like how you suggested a few hours ago, I should really use a stepper motor. correct?
[19:25:18] <stevejobsinhell> or LeoNerd
[19:28:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> not necessarily
[19:28:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> all depends on what you want to do with it.
[19:28:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> a stepper is really good for precise positioning and continuous rotation
[19:29:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> a hobby servo is decent at precise positioning but no good for continuous rotation.
[19:30:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> with a servo you need to send a constant stream of pulses if you want it to hold position.
[19:30:08] <stevejobsinhell> ahh
[19:30:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> with a stepper you just have to hold 1 or maybe 2 pins high to hold position.
[19:30:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> depending on whether you are doing full step or half step or even quarter step,,,which can get a bit complex.
[19:30:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> hobby servo needs 1 i/o pin
[19:31:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> stepper generally needs 4...or some external hardware to pretend to be 4,,,in which case you end up using 2 usually.
[19:32:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> with a hobby servo, if you have something connected that gives some resistance and you send a single pulse it usually won't make it all the way to the desired position.
[19:33:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> so you have to send multiple pulses until it reaches that position.
[19:33:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> if you stop sending pulses then the servo will go slack.
[19:34:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> with a servo you just need to give it power and pulses.
[19:35:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> with a stepper you will need a driver chip that can handle the current needed...or transistors or whatever...don't drive the coils directly from a microcontroller i/o pin..
[19:35:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> so, each has its uses, strengths, weaknesses, and uses.
[19:35:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> and uses
[19:35:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> or did I say that already?
[20:06:10] <tpw_rules> stevejobsinhell: no, why?
[20:06:46] <tpw_rules> a stepper only is necessary if you want to control and know the exact position of the shaft
[20:06:59] <Strangework> I am trying my hand at programming avr chips with C rather than the high-level Arduino lib. As a first step, I'm trying to learn the attiny24a's USI features and implementing a simple clock signal. I cannot find out how to get an output out of PA4, the SCL pin. I noticed that setting the corresponding DDRA and PORTA bits to high does not let me get a signal out of the pin. I've read in the datasheet that if the start condition interrupt
[20:07:18] <tpw_rules> Strangework: your end got cut off
[20:08:22] <Strangework> Excuse me, tpw_rules? :o Which sentence did it end at?
[20:08:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> tpw_rules, on the stepper, not necessarily...steppers geared right can provide very precise speed and plenty of torque also without bothering with positioning...
[20:08:35] <tpw_rules> "that if the start condition interrup"
[20:08:47] <tpw_rules> Lambda_Aurigae: "necessary"
[20:08:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> copiers do such with steppers all the time.
[20:09:00] <tpw_rules> but you could do it with a servo if you had an encoder on it
[20:09:09] <tpw_rules> so i get your point
[20:09:15] <Strangework> ...that if the start condition interrupt flag is set, it will hold down SCL - the flag can be cleared by setting the appropriate bit in the ISUSR register. I am testing for SCL by hooking up an LED anode to it.
[20:09:28] <tpw_rules> Strangework: can i see your code?
[20:09:44] <Strangework> Sure, is there a preferred pastebin service we use?
[20:09:46] <tpw_rules> do the code for just lighting the LED
[20:09:50] <tpw_rules> not really
[20:10:02] <tpw_rules> (i've done this before btw)
[20:10:44] <Strangework> I've managed to get it work for just straight pins. I can light an LED and strobe it on PA0 and PA3, but the same code fails to do anything for PA4
[20:11:04] <tpw_rules> show the code set up for pa4
[20:12:04] <tpw_rules> your programmer will be attached to that pin
[20:13:01] <Strangework> tpw_rules, pastebin.com/ACN8M3A4
[20:14:01] <tpw_rules> it may be holding the line low
[20:14:33] <tpw_rules> do you have the appropriate pullup resistor on PA4? i2c is open-drain so the chip will only ground or float it
[20:15:44] <Strangework> Ah hm, I do not have any kind of pullup resistor set up on it. I am quite new to dealing with electronics at this level. I would need an external pull-up resistor to get the voltage high enough to activate an LED?
[20:16:58] <tpw_rules> i2c (the USI two wire mode) is designed so that a 1 on the line is like the wire is disconnected, and a 0 is connected to ground
[20:17:20] <tpw_rules> you could try turning the LED around and connecting the other end to positive
[20:17:32] <tpw_rules> but i think your USICLK is wrong
[20:17:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> hook a 4.7Kohm resistor between the pin and VCC?
[20:17:54] <tpw_rules> and i gotta go for a bit
[20:18:46] <Strangework> alright, thanks for your help, tpw_rules!
[20:21:02] <Strangework> Lambda_Aurigae, I only have 330ohm resistors on hand. Could I try tpw_rules tip and have the LED cathode connected to the pin and the anode to 3.3v? Could that possibly damage parts?
[20:21:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> should work too.
[20:21:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> will light when the pin goes low.
[20:22:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> digital i/o pins prefer to sink current anyhow.
[20:22:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> that's actually the preferred way to do it.
[20:23:55] <Strangework> aha!! that works, thanks, Lambda_Aurigae!
[20:24:12] <Strangework> What do you mean by 'sink current' though? Having the excess current enter it's own pin?
[20:24:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> i/o pins by default go into high-z input mode so the thing will not conduct...
[20:24:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> sink current means to connect to GND internally.
[20:24:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> VCC---LED---switch---GND..
[20:25:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> the switch is sinking the current.
[20:25:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> VCC---switch---LED---GND
[20:25:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> the switch is sourcing current.
[20:25:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> replace switch with your AVR i/o pin...
[20:26:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> current flows through the avr and is sourced out the pin....to the LED...to GND.
[20:26:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> sourcing current.
[20:26:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> VCC to LED to i/o pin....when i/o goes low it is sinking current.
[20:27:38] * Lambda_Aurigae learnt this from Forrest M. Mims III back in the 70s..
[20:28:21] <Strangework> Wow! :O Okay, I can remember that. Thank you for the explanation
[20:28:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> I recommend reading Getting Started in Electronics by the great Forrest.
[20:29:19] <Strangework> That's the book you mentioned reading in the 70s?
[20:29:26] <Strangework> Is that how you got started? :o
[20:29:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> well,
[20:29:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> I got started by fixing a radio my father threw away.
[20:29:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> then got a radio shack 50-in-1 electronics kit.
[20:30:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> then started buying components and reading everything I could get my hands on.
[20:30:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.amazon.com/Getting-Started-Electronics-Forrest-Mims/dp/0945053282
[20:30:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> new version.
[20:32:08] <Strangework> AWESOME. :D Thanks for the resource.. It's been a bit disorienting having my knowledge stop past the logical level. I would typically google up concepts and assemble a patchwork idea as an approximation
[20:32:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have the older version both in hardcopy and digitally.
[20:32:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> that book starts with,,,this is a battery, this is a wire level of electronics.
[20:32:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> then there are the engineer mini notebooks
[20:32:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> all handwritten.
[20:33:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> he actually wrote those books by hand on graph paper.
[20:35:58] <Strangework> heh, I wonder if the text has changed much since his original notes
[20:36:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> not a lot.
[20:37:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> 1983 was first printing of that particular book.
[20:39:38] <Strangework> I've put in an order :D Pretty damn excited.
[20:40:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> it is very much a basic electronics book.
[20:40:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> but one I have my students read before doing anything.
[20:41:05] <Strangework> Where did you go from there? Was that enough for you to pick things up from datasheets?
[20:41:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> ttl databook was one of my early readings too.
[20:41:25] <Strangework> I have been having a pretty smooth time rifling through my attiny24a datasheet, though it's been primarily on a higher-level
[20:42:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> as a kid I read everything on electronics I could put my hands on....which meant lots of visits to the library.
[20:43:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> waaay pre-internet.
[20:52:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> check out the TTL Cookbook
[20:52:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> awesome book to learn about 74xx series chips.
[21:03:05] <jadew> or you can just go through this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_7400_series_integrated_circuits
[21:03:14] <jadew> takes only a couple of minutes and it's just as good
[21:03:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> there is that too.
[21:03:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> but I like my paper books.
[21:04:22] <jadew> I like my paper soft and white
[21:04:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> guess I'm just old fashioned.
[21:05:01] <jadew> I think a lot of people still prefer paper
[21:05:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> I recently bought an entire truckload of scifi paperbacks from a local library sale.
[21:05:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> paid 10 dollars for over 400 books.
[21:05:37] <jadew> hah
[21:05:40] <jadew> nice deal
[21:05:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah.
[21:05:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> wife was pissed.
[21:06:03] <jadew> I bet, where did you put them?
[21:06:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> still building bookshelves for them.
[21:06:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> right now they are in plastic totes in the workshed.
[21:07:30] <jadew> I enjoy reading fiction, but I don't
[21:07:38] <jadew> I always found that it takes too much time
[21:08:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> I read about 100 to 200 pages each night of fiction.
[21:08:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> and between 50 and 100 pages each day of tech manuals of some kind.
[21:08:55] <jadew> yeah, I don't have time for those 100 to 200 pages any day
[21:09:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> I usually read tech manuals at lunch and fiction in bed at night.
[21:09:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> I also taught myself to speed read at the age of 10.
[21:09:25] <jadew> you read tech manuals when you don't have anything better to do?
[21:09:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> by which time I was already reading on a high school level.
[21:10:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> by 7th grade my reading comprehension was on a college graduate level.
[21:10:23] <jadew> that's another thing I never do, I found that if I do that I don't have enough time to digest the information
[21:10:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> can't focus on reading fiction while I'm eating.
[21:10:30] <jadew> so I actually read very slowly
[21:10:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> I don't read linearly either.
[21:10:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> part of my speed reading technique.
[21:11:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> I skip through a paragraph then go back and pick up details.
[21:11:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> which made it a pain in the ass for me to read out loud in school.
[21:12:17] <jadew> don't you distort the flow that the story teller is trying to create?
[21:12:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> not really.
[21:12:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> the flow works in my mind just fine.
[21:13:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> it also helps me read and understand code I believe.
[21:14:16] <jadew> that's very different
[21:14:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> because I can follow jumps and branches without problem.
[21:14:31] <jadew> code is structured in such a way that you can tell where something interesting might start
[21:14:42] <jadew> so you quickly take a look and decide if it's worth reading further
[21:14:47] <jadew> if not, you skip to the next block
[21:15:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's hard to explain really.
[21:15:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> is just something I started doing way back when and it's second nature.
[21:18:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> might be tied into my psycho-status.
[21:19:09] <jadew> how do you read when you have to understand something?
[21:19:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> same as always.
[21:19:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> paragraph or sentence at a time.
[21:19:55] <jadew> it sounds a lot like skimming and I'm having a hard time to believe you're not missing data
[21:20:01] <jadew> or that you have enough time to process it
[21:20:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> when I take my time I have about an 80% retention of data..speed reading drops it to about 60% first pass retention.
[21:20:17] <jadew> especially if it's something that needs understanding, like a datasheet
[21:20:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> datasheets I usually speed read cover to cover then go back and pick important bits for further study.
[21:21:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> data gets,,,filed,,,for lack of a better term and pops up when needed.
[21:22:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> but I have trouble with rote memorization.
[21:22:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> specially people's names and faces for some strange reason.
[21:23:26] <jadew> it's because you don't care
[21:23:38] <jadew> you don't get that with hot chicks
[21:23:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> hehe.
[21:24:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> I don't remember their names either.
[21:24:09] <jadew> with hot chicks you remember their name, how they look, boobs size, etc
[21:24:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> usually I can tell if I've seen them before.
[21:24:22] <jadew> not hot enough then
[21:24:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> I guess not.
[21:24:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> but my wife, first time I met her I memorized everything I could about her.
[21:25:24] <jadew> I'm still having trouble with my wife's birth date
[21:25:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> can still remember exactly how long her hair was and which ways the curls went and her eye color and the fact that she is right handed and that her right ear lobe is slightly lower than her left, apparently due to multiple piercings.
[21:25:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> 11/25/67.
[21:26:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> which I learned on our first meeting too.
[21:26:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> can't remember her social security number to save my life though.
[21:26:36] <jadew> I have trouble remembering my son's birth date too
[21:26:41] <jadew> which is more embarasing
[21:26:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> work on conception date and count forward?
[21:27:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> :}
[21:27:06] <jadew> heh
[21:27:11] <jadew> I don't remember that either
[21:27:15] <jadew> I know when it happened
[21:27:23] <jadew> I just don't know the date, or the YEAR
[21:27:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> hehe.
[21:27:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> different things stick to mind.
[21:28:01] <jadew> yeah
[21:28:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> I can remember my phone number from when I was in 1st through 4th grade but not any number since then,,,
[21:28:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> just barely can recall my current home phone and I still have to look at my business card to remember my cellphone number.
[21:28:43] <jadew> younger mind
[21:28:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> said cellphone number I've had for 5 years.
[21:28:53] <jadew> and it was more important
[21:29:05] <jadew> now it doesn't matter as much, back then, it could have been a life saver
[21:29:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> and my parents all but beat it into me.
[21:29:25] <jadew> yeah, same here
[21:29:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> 1016 april lane, north fort myers florida,,,997-0260....no clue on the area code though.
[21:29:37] <jadew> I remember my parents and my grandmother's phone number since I was a little kid
[21:29:43] <jadew> my grandmother still uses it tho
[21:29:56] <jadew> but my parents don't have that number anymore
[21:30:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> sounds like my inlaws.
[21:30:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> they had the same phone number from the time my wife was like 8.
[21:30:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> just dropped it 2 years ago when they sold their place and moved in here with us.
[21:31:06] <jadew> with mobile phones it's going to be much easier to keep your number
[21:31:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> I don't bother.
[21:31:20] <jadew> I expect a lot of people will only have 1 phone number for their entire lives
[21:31:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> by the time I change carriers there's enough people with my number that I don't want calling me that I just change it.
[21:31:50] <jadew> I have an awesome phone number
[21:31:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> hell, I would change it monthly if possible.
[21:32:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> along with passwords.
[21:32:07] <jadew> and I don't care about people calling me, I'm not that likable
[21:32:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> me either.
[21:32:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> but customers tend to get my cell number from caller-ID.
[21:33:20] * jadew doesn't have customers
[21:33:25] <jadew> just friends that don't call
[21:33:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have to call every customer soon as I get a service call in my box.
[21:33:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> I don't have friends...except my wifey.
[21:34:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> my social life is on irc.
[21:34:08] <jadew> high five
[21:34:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have some channels I've been on for as much as 15 years.
[21:34:43] <jadew> same here
[21:34:44] <Tom_itx> same
[21:34:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> and some places I come and go from.
[21:35:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've been here and gone multiple times over the last decade and a half under different names.
[21:35:23] <jadew> I remember reading an article about japanese guys spending all their time in their homes, playing games and wasting time online
[21:35:32] <jadew> and I was thinking "lol, what a bunch of losers"
[21:35:39] <jadew> then "oh, wait..."
[21:35:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> and here you are online chatting and wasting time online.
[21:37:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm currently on 9 active channels, 1 not so active, and 3 private chats.
[21:38:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> also, watching netflix, picking through pic32 datasheets for some details, and writing pic32 application.
[21:38:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> oh, and have ksp running on the laptop with a couple of ships heading out to outer planets.
[21:42:57] <jadew> netflix is only available in the US, right?
[21:43:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> dunno.
[21:43:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> possibly.
[21:43:34] <jadew> Sorry, Netflix is not available in your country yet.
[21:43:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> we don't have cable but did get a roku stick real cheap recently
[21:44:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> and the wifey likes some of the shows on it so we pay the 10 bucks a month for a netflix account.
[21:44:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> I pick up a few movies from it here and there and there are a couple of series I want to watch when I have time.
[21:55:34] <jadew> wish we had that
[21:59:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> ok..off to bed time.
[22:03:45] <jadew> night