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[07:05:51] <LeoNerd> Woo. MAX2119 chips arrived. And a garish-bright purple envelope arrived. Time for me to get soldering :)
[08:04:25] <LeoNerd> Hrm. So I got a little pack of Adafruit 5050 LED breakouts. They seem to have pads on *both* sides
[08:04:27] <LeoNerd> I wonder why
[08:21:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> to solder things to both sides maybe?
[08:24:36] <hypermagic> they used to put through hole vias to pads so the pad will be stronger soldered
[08:25:14] <hypermagic> in case you were to fire the thing from a cannon
[08:35:24] <LeoNerd> I don't think they're through-plated
[10:48:50] <dunder_mane> ugh. timers. y u no work?
[10:49:12] <dunder_mane> will the compA_vector still be called in CTC mode?
[11:05:04] <LeoNerd> If the match A value is smaller, yes.
[11:05:09] <LeoNerd> Depends what CTC mode, also
[11:05:39] <LeoNerd> Usually I do CTC-ICR mode, so it counts up to the ICR value. If OCRA or OCRB are smaller, it'll fire those interrupts as well
[11:05:50] <rue_house> is the 2119 the 16 channel pwm chip?
[11:10:23] <dunder_mane> It's an attiny85
[11:10:43] <kdehl> Umm... I have a USB-to TTL serial adapter that I want to connect to a 3.3 volt device (ESP8266). If I only use the 3.3 power supply pin on the adapter to the device, will the signal RX and TX pins still smash it with 5 volt signals?
[11:12:55] <dunder_mane> LeoNerd: so the ctc mode on the tiny85 defines the TOP as OCRA. so i would assume CTC checks and then clears the COMPA flag, right? so is there enough COMPA flag for both CTC and the OCRA interrupt?
[11:13:58] <dunder_mane> I dont think i have CTC-ICR here. lemme check the datasheet
[11:15:51] <rue_house> the max2119?
[11:16:22] <rue_house> kdehl, it probably dosn't send 5V signals anyhow
[11:16:36] <rue_house> the logic low of most devices is well under 3V
[11:16:40] <rue_house> er high
[11:17:28] <kdehl> I see.
[11:17:31] <kdehl> Hm.
[11:18:02] <kdehl> I wish I hade a scope.
[11:18:18] <rue_house> put a diode and cap on the recieve line
[11:18:28] <rue_house> send UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
[11:18:31] <rue_house> for a while
[11:18:38] <rue_house> and measure the voltage
[11:18:44] <rue_house> it'll be 0.7 under the peak
[11:19:05] <rue_house> TX----|>|-----+------> meter
[11:19:15] <rue_house> +----||-------GND
[11:20:11] <rue_house> (rx/tx as per your relative location)
[11:20:28] <kdehl> Hm. U is 0x55, shouldn't the voltage be 1/2 of high level?
[11:20:40] <rue_house> no, diode,
[11:20:45] <kdehl> Diode!
[11:20:51] <rue_house> its the highest duty I can think of at the moment
[11:21:33] <rue_house> at a guess, I'm gonna say you get 2.5V
[11:21:49] <rue_house> or about, maybe 2.1
[11:22:00] <rue_house> 1uF cap would be fine
[11:22:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> my 5V usb-ttl adapter puts out about 4.2V
[11:22:07] <kdehl> I really don't understand how this works. Analog electronics is not my greatest ability. Why can't I just send U and measure between TXD and GND?
[11:22:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> my 3.3V usb-ttl adapter puts out about 2.9V
[11:22:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> kdehl, how fast can your meter measure it?
[11:22:37] <rue_house> the diode only lets power go INTO the cap, so the cap accumulates the peaks
[11:22:47] <rue_house> less the 0.7V that the diode drops
[11:22:54] <kdehl> Not very fast, I guess. It's cheap. But won't you get an average value?
[11:22:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> put a capacitor between TXD and GND and let it run a while then measure the voltage across the cap.
[11:23:05] <rue_house> no, you need a diode
[11:23:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah..need the diode in there.
[11:23:24] <kdehl> Alright.
[11:23:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> to keep it from shorting back to GND when the output is low.
[11:23:27] <rue_house> <rue_house> TX----|>|-----+------> meter
[11:23:27] <rue_house> <rue_house> +----||-------GND
[11:23:50] <rue_house> you kids can read ascii schematics, right?
[11:23:55] <rue_house> :)
[11:24:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> rue_bed, the bestest kind!
[11:24:10] <kdehl> I have no idea how this works. I have a pcak of 1N4007's, will that work?
[11:24:20] <rue_house> yes
[11:24:30] <kdehl> A'ight.
[11:24:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> rue_bed, are you gonna make an i2c-on-ram avr programmer soon?
[11:24:42] <rue_house> I just searched digikey for 'yes', I got 84644 results
[11:25:05] <rue_house> Lambda_Aurigae, no, there are no i2c programmers I can scrape from
[11:25:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> aawww.
[11:25:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> hmm...
[11:25:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> maybe connect a pcf8574 to that and make an LCD adapter from that!
[11:26:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> or bitbang spi/avr programmer on it!
[11:26:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> might have to look into that for the vga i2c connection.
[11:26:30] <rue_house> yes, I bet lcdproc could be used with it
[11:26:35] <kdehl> I only have a pack of tiny 18 pF capacitors... is that enough?
[11:26:51] <rue_house> Lambda_Aurigae, your a Had reader aren't ya?
[11:26:55] <rue_house> kdehl, no,
[11:26:59] <kdehl> Crap.
[11:27:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> kdehl, no old electronics laying around you can steal a 4.7uF to 100uF cap from?
[11:27:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> rue_bed, of course....
[11:27:06] <rue_house> kdehl, open up the old stereo and take out a 1uF
[11:27:10] <kdehl> Heh.
[11:27:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> even responded to one of yours.
[11:27:14] <rue_house> or from that old tv in the alley
[11:27:19] <kdehl> Well... I might have something.
[11:27:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> or from mom's alarm clock.
[11:27:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> or a dead motherboard
[11:27:41] <rue_house> I felt like an idiot when I read back and noticed two other people brought up the vga port
[11:27:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> or a dead power supply.
[11:27:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah..saw that rue_bed
[11:28:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> really do need to make a no-bootstrap programmer from an i2c built into a PC somewhere though.
[11:28:33] <rue_house> so if I buy 20mm expandable woven sleeve, how big is it?
[11:28:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> | | about that big.
[11:29:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> depending on your font.
[11:29:36] <rue_house> in the pipes or on the pipes?
[11:29:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> yes
[11:29:59] <rue_house> I dont know if the monimal size is open or tight
[11:30:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> probably relaxed
[11:30:09] <rue_house> searching dk datasheets
[11:30:28] <rue_house> oh, looks like its mid
[11:30:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> hmmm
[11:30:56] <rue_house> nom .25", min 0.156, max .437
[11:31:16] <rue_house> so, how the heck do I get the right size for air muscles without standing at a rack?
[11:31:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> buy one of everything.
[11:32:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> or do,,,,MATH
[11:32:17] <rue_house> I dont know....
[11:32:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm working on a project for HaD to try to get into as many categories as possible with one project.
[11:32:31] <rue_house> this math thing sounds kinda hokey,
[11:32:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> I can do one to get into 3 so far but can't find any freescale chips to add in.
[11:33:07] <rue_house> expressing the real world in terms of numbers and then manipulating them and expencting them to translate back to real world stuff
[11:33:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> the categories are atmel, freescale, microchip, and TI...
[11:33:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> I can build something from the other three real easy.
[11:33:38] <rue_house> Lambda_Aurigae, make a fs chip blink a status led
[11:34:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> only freescale chip in a usable (read dip) package is a chincy 8bit microcontroller and I got plenty of those already.
[11:34:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> and not sure I can get it programmed.
[11:41:03] <LeoNerd> dunder_mane: Ahyes; the timy85's timer doesn't have a CRC-ICR mode.
[11:51:50] <kdehl> Nope. Can't find any capacitors.
[11:51:59] <kdehl> Well, I'm making a voltage divider, just in case.
[12:03:46] <rue_house> a voltage divider is useless
[12:03:59] <rue_house> kdehl, tell me what you have you can strip for parts and I'll tell you where a cap is
[12:04:33] <kdehl> Why is a voltage divider useless?
[12:04:45] <rue_house> kdehl, has it been more than 2 years since that colour inkjet printer was used?
[12:05:03] <rue_house> kdehl, it'll cause too much slewing
[12:05:31] <kdehl> Problem is that I moved recently into a temporary place and I didn't get all the electronics with me.
[12:06:16] <rue_house> go ask 2 neighbours either way if they have dead inkjet you could have, say you need it quick, you have to add a part from it to you machine that prevents the end of the world
[12:06:57] <kdehl> Yeah, really.
[12:07:13] <rue_house> odds are if you ask 4 people, you will get 3 printers
[12:07:25] <kdehl> But you said it's probably safe to just use it straight without anything in between since it probably doesn't output 5 volt anyway?
[12:14:18] <hypermagic> http://debugmo.de/2007/07/read-your-dvds-the-raw-way/
[12:14:23] <hypermagic> ^^
[12:21:59] <kdehl> Meh. The chip is burning hot.
[12:24:10] <kdehl> Strange. I won't respond to any command.
[12:24:34] <kdehl> I enter 'AT+GMR' and hit enter, and all that happens is that the cursor goes back to the beginning of the line.
[12:24:40] <kdehl> Like it's echoing.
[12:46:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> kdehl, sounds like it's borked.
[12:47:28] <kdehl> No, I think it's just not sending linefeed, only carriage return to the chip.
[12:51:41] <Chillum> I had that problem
[12:51:55] <Chillum> was frustrating till I realized what I was doing wrong
[13:05:25] <kdehl> Chillum: Which was?
[13:05:42] <Chillum> I was not sending the right endline character(s)
[13:05:48] <Chillum> once I figure that out it worked
[13:06:22] <kdehl> So I'm on the right track, at least.
[13:06:26] <kdehl> What terminal did you use?
[13:06:42] <Chillum> I was using the arduino IDE serial monitor, it had check boxes to turn on and of NL and CR
[13:06:52] <Chillum> err LF and CR
[13:07:13] <kdehl> Did you have to use both?
[13:07:22] <Chillum> I am not sure but I think so
[13:07:28] <kdehl> Alright
[13:07:51] <Chillum> try each combo, one will work
[13:08:30] <kdehl> Right, I just need a terminal that can be configured this way.
[13:08:36] <kdehl> I use Linux.
[13:09:05] <kdehl> picocom seens to be able to do it.
[13:11:47] <Chillum> you are talking to an esp8266?
[13:21:39] <kdehl> Yeah. Or trying.
[13:24:57] <kdehl> FINALLY!
[13:30:18] <nidhoegger> Hello. I have a quick question: I have a bunch of constant strings which are currently stored in RAM. Problem: Im running out of RAM on my ATMega8, now I want to store them in RAM. I know about the PROGMEM macro, but wanted to ask: as the strings are constant, will the "const" keyword also store them in ROM instead of RAM and can i adress them normaly?
[13:31:02] <RikusW> you must use progmem
[13:31:11] <RikusW> const won't work afaik
[13:31:31] <nidhoegger> the problem i want to avoid the PROGMEM macro is simply that I use this specific code on ATMega and Renesas processors and dont want to mess around with defines for both cpus, as this is the only difference in the C code...
[13:32:10] <nidhoegger> but thanks for your answer.
[13:33:20] <RikusW> reading the data from flash will require different functions too
[13:33:40] <RikusW> you'll probably need to read the string into ram before doning printf etc...
[13:33:46] <nidhoegger> i read about that
[13:33:59] <nidhoegger> its memcpy_P if I remember correctly
[13:33:59] <RikusW> read the avr-libc docs for more details
[13:34:07] <nidhoegger> currently at it :)
[13:34:32] * RikusW mostly used asm LPM...
[13:37:23] <LeoNerd> Ah hi RikusW :) Latest news: I bought myself a scope. First thing I did was hooked it up to the timing crystal on that board of mine that was having trouble with timing.
[13:37:41] <LeoNerd> Guess what? Tonnnnnes of noise on one of the ends - XTAL1 (the input into the chip), so no wonder the timing goes all wrong
[13:37:47] <RikusW> hi LeoNerd, any insights ?
[13:38:00] <RikusW> (did you put the probe on 10x ?)
[13:38:17] <LeoNerd> Yeah some. I'll get some more detail in a moment.. I'm just about to continue work on it in fact
[13:38:46] <LeoNerd> gotta rearrange the desk a bit to fit the scope on ;)
[13:38:46] <RikusW> 10x will increase the input impedance, giving better resultsa
[13:38:50] <LeoNerd> Ahh I see
[13:38:52] <RikusW> heh
[13:39:02] <LeoNerd> Well, I compared it to the breadboard version. the BB version is nicely smooth
[13:39:09] <LeoNerd> It's only this PCB'ed version that is wrong
[13:41:56] <RikusW> and the avr fuses are the same on both ?
[13:42:03] <LeoNerd> Yah
[13:42:09] <LeoNerd> Yeah, so it manages from time to time
[13:42:38] <LeoNerd> If I output a long stream of a single byte, say, 'X', then I get little chunks wher maybe 20 or 30 characters in a row are fine, but then every so often one will break
[13:42:44] <LeoNerd> Whereas on the BB I can output them all day and it's fine]
[13:50:14] <RikusW> seems this bug just don't want to be found ;)
[13:50:49] * LeoNerd attempts to juggle two scope probes onto neighbouring SOIC14 legs
[13:52:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://i.imgur.com/lh0io1y.jpg
[13:52:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> problem with the new liquid cooling systems for the computers I think.
[13:54:09] <LeoNerd> Hrm... Why don't oscilloscopes come with spare pairs of hands to hold all the probes, so I can activate the buttons?
[13:54:15] <LeoNerd> Or maybe they should be voice-activated
[13:57:39] <LeoNerd> Ahah... This one seems to be a lot better now I've resoldered the cap
[13:57:48] <LeoNerd> Maybe it was just a bad joint
[14:01:37] <RikusW> xtal cap ?
[14:01:46] <RikusW> dry joint.....
[14:09:19] <LeoNerd> Yeah maybe
[14:23:20] <LeoNerd> Oh, huh.. Nope, it's back now. And I have a picture this time
[14:24:24] <LeoNerd> http://home.leonerd.org.uk/local/screenie/DS1Z_QuickPrint3.png
[14:24:48] <LeoNerd> These are measured from XTAL1 and XTAL2
[14:28:00] <LeoNerd> That noise happens quite reliably every 8.64µS
[14:28:55] <LeoNerd> Huh... Which... happens to be the bitrate of my UARTY
[14:28:56] <LeoNerd> UART
[14:29:34] <hypermagic> would you use a bluray + webcam hybrid stuff to store qr code like form infornation on any plastic surface as data storage?
[14:29:49] <RikusW> do you have a 100nF and 10uF cap on Vcc ?
[14:29:53] <LeoNerd> I wonder if the UART's bit-switching somehow upsets the chip
[14:29:59] <LeoNerd> I have a 10uF
[14:30:04] <LeoNerd> Oh.. hrm.. er..
[14:30:25] <LeoNerd> huh yankow, I don't see a 100n on here
[14:30:47] <RikusW> what type of 10uF ?
[14:31:26] <LeoNerd> MLCC. Little rectangular brown thing
[14:31:28] <RikusW> I used taantalum
[14:31:29] <LeoNerd> 1208 size
[14:31:37] <RikusW> ceramic ?
[14:31:40] <LeoNerd> Yah
[14:32:17] <RikusW> and what kind do you have on BB ?
[14:32:33] <LeoNerd> And, yes... if I look at the trace of the xtal vs. serial line, the noise happens exactly on the bit transitions
[14:33:16] <RikusW> probably vcc caps then..
[14:33:49] <RikusW> maybe the 10uF ceramic got too high esr
[14:34:04] <LeoNerd> Mm... maybe
[14:34:18] <LeoNerd> I could try to put a 100n in too
[14:34:18] <RikusW> try soldering some 100nF smt one on top of it
[14:34:35] <LeoNerd> Ugh..
[14:34:50] <LeoNerd> That might be ... fun. Easier may be to whack it in somewhere between Vcc pin and the ground flood
[14:35:01] <LeoNerd> In other news, I think my scope just crashed :/
[14:35:06] <RikusW> btw what did the usb scope cost ?
[14:35:12] <LeoNerd> This isn't a USB scope
[14:35:20] <RikusW> ugh
[14:35:21] <LeoNerd> It's a proper desk one. Rigol DS1054Z
[14:35:49] <LeoNerd> GBP300 to deliver it to my house.
[14:35:55] <LeoNerd> 4ch, 50MHz, 1Gs/sec
[14:36:17] <RikusW> not too bad :)
[14:36:26] <LeoNerd> http://home.leonerd.org.uk/local/screenie/DS1Z_QuickPrint4.png
[14:36:40] <LeoNerd> yellow == XTAL(1, 2? I forget); cyan == UART TX pin
[14:36:45] <LeoNerd> The smoking gun
[14:36:46] <RikusW> can you get 1Gs/s for 1 channel ?
[14:36:58] <LeoNerd> Yes.. so the thing is 1Gs/s total
[14:37:14] <LeoNerd> If you use 2 channels it's down to 500Ms/sec on each channel; 3 or 4 and it's 250
[14:38:13] <RikusW> interesting design choice to get extra channels
[14:38:16] <LeoNerd> One really "annoying" feature of the scope is that quite a few of the fancier features are pay-extra for unlock keys, but the thing ships with a free ~2000 minute trial of everything
[14:38:37] <LeoNerd> Even if you're not using the features, everything is ticking down. So I'm afraid of leaving it turned on for more than a few minutes at a time, as it's eating into those trials
[14:39:13] <RikusW> I might rather get an opensource one...
[14:39:40] <LeoNerd> Maybe... Thing is, I don't know of any opensource things with *hardware* approaching this nice
[14:39:51] <LeoNerd> The screen, the buttons and knobs,... it's all quite nice.
[14:40:20] * RikusW got an old tek RM561A scope
[14:40:30] <RikusW> still uses vacuum tubes
[14:40:54] <RikusW> I only rarely use it..
[14:41:15] <RikusW> and its quite HEAVY
[14:41:15] <Steffanx> still watching too many series? :P
[14:41:42] <RikusW> not really, don't have much left without adsl...
[14:41:45] <hypermagic> 10uf ceramic is fine.
[14:42:19] <RikusW> might get some of the new stuff when my brother visits in a few weeks
[14:42:22] <LeoNerd> Eh; 100n caps are like... pennies in cost. I'll just pop one in
[14:42:48] * RikusW got a few hundred 0603 100nF ceramics
[14:42:52] <hypermagic> well for radios they used to even parallel 100nf and 10nf and 1nf
[14:43:24] <hypermagic> because the samaller caps might be a little better at VHF
[14:43:33] <LeoNerd> Yeah; I've got a boxfull of the things
[14:43:53] <hypermagic> how about wire trace inductance? :P
[14:44:00] <hypermagic> length
[14:44:22] <hypermagic> and wire cross coupling?
[14:44:29] <hypermagic> radiated EMI
[14:44:39] <RikusW> Steffanx: been busy on the farm lately, haven't even turned on my pc for 5 days or so..
[14:44:49] <Steffanx> :o
[14:46:07] <hypermagic> what? no mp3 playing while tractoring ?
[14:47:16] <RikusW> our tractors aren't that fancy...
[14:47:29] <RikusW> they don't even have cabins...
[14:47:35] <Steffanx> heh
[14:47:37] <Steffanx> old skool
[14:47:41] <hypermagic> ;/
[14:47:52] <hypermagic> sounds noisy and hot and dirty
[14:47:53] <RikusW> or exhaust silencers....
[14:48:00] <RikusW> indeed
[14:48:26] <RikusW> cold now, its winter here, -9C some mornings
[14:48:57] <hypermagic> id like that, it is fkin 32C here now
[14:49:25] * RikusW is in South Africa
[14:49:53] <hypermagic> i heard there are diamonds there ;>
[14:50:29] <RikusW> not where I live
[14:51:21] <RikusW> google -> landini 8500
[14:51:43] <RikusW> we have those without cabins
[14:52:45] <Steffanx> heh, here in dutchland it seems they only use them for "old tractor" shows :P
[14:52:57] <RikusW> and one of these massey ferguson 165
[14:53:16] <RikusW> without power steering :/
[14:54:34] <Steffanx> At least you have a few ;)
[14:54:59] <RikusW> 3, the mf 165, landini 8500 4x4 and 8860
[14:55:40] <RikusW> the other 2 got power steering
[14:55:41] <Steffanx> cows/horses/donkeys are also still used or is that even old skool for SA?
[14:55:52] <RikusW> old skool
[14:56:26] <RikusW> my grandfather did use oxes when he was young, before 1960 I'd guess
[14:56:50] <RikusW> *oxen
[14:57:27] <RikusW> horses are still used in Lesotho, its _very_ mountainous
[14:57:56] <RikusW> I can actually see the mountains from where I live
[15:00:28] <hypermagic> and horses do not burn fuel
[15:01:29] <RikusW> they do eat grass..
[15:01:41] <RikusW> and do need grain when worked hard
[15:02:53] <hypermagic> do horses eat meat ?
[15:03:32] <RikusW> not at all
[15:03:57] <RikusW> only plants/seeds
[15:04:26] <LeoNerd> Hehe.. ohman I love this
[15:04:54] <LeoNerd> Scraped a bit of the solderresist off the ground pour close to the chpi's VCC pin, to make a pad for an 0603 cap. Solder the cap there, make a tiiiny bridge of wire from other end right onto Vcc directly :)
[15:05:38] <RikusW> and now it works ?
[15:05:58] <LeoNerd> Dunno yet. still attaching it
[15:06:06] <LeoNerd> Note the lack of past-tense ;)
[15:08:27] <RikusW> wft! ->
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/man-faced-20-years-prison-clearing-web-browser-history
[15:08:45] <LeoNerd> Mmmmm kynar
[15:14:50] <LeoNerd> Hrmmm Nope.
[15:14:54] <LeoNerd> This hasn't helped :(
[15:37:27] <LeoNerd> I have some mroe screengrabs too... plus I put a third probe directly to the MCU's VCC Pin
[15:41:52] <RikusW> is vcc stable ?
[15:43:11] <LeoNerd> It wibbles a little every time the UART switches
[15:43:21] <LeoNerd> Though I do seem to have a stable UART output now at least, according to PC
[16:11:19] <sebus> anyone good in analog / smps here? Is this a good idea to make a custom charger for 12V 1,3Ah like this
http://oi61.tinypic.com/24yxu6x.jpg or is there any other cheap solution for this?
[16:14:28] <sebus> I saw once linear had something integrated, but linear chips are also... expensive here.
[16:27:33] <LeoNerd> https://twitter.com/cpan_pevans/status/609828700398460928 more screenshots of my UART-related timing noise
[16:31:12] <sebus> how about xtal vs supply LeoNerd?
[16:32:04] <sebus> any drops/noise on ac/dc decoupling ?
[17:09:14] <LeoNerd> sebus: Yah; vcc gets upset a bit around here. Not massively, but a bit.
[17:11:05] <sebus> a bit?
[17:11:43] <sebus> >20mV drop?
[17:13:12] <sebus> block vcc/gnd with 100nF/1uF
[17:13:58] <sebus> attiny841 sounds like it's SMD chip. Any long paths to the xtal? tried to change xtal caps?
[17:14:10] <sebus> tried to solder crystal shielding to ground?
[17:15:36] <sebus> and also, do you have a spare tiny841 to test?
[17:19:45] <sebus> Once I had a big problem with mega88, but... never seen such problems even with... too high crystals like 28.224MHz or 32MHz.
[17:21:52] <sebus> also, you can use a several ohm resistors on tx/rx and use alike... 220pF caps on tx/rx line
[17:22:13] <sebus> it will still allow you to use around 57.6k baudrate
[17:56:43] <LeoNerd> sebus:
https://twitter.com/cpan_pevans/status/609851279586816000
[17:56:50] <LeoNerd> That Vcc swing looks excessive to me
[17:57:21] <sebus> holyyy.... 1,5V swing?
[17:57:25] <sebus> ouch
[17:57:26] <LeoNerd> Yuhuh
[17:57:41] <LeoNerd> This board has a 10uF cap on it, plus there's a 100nF right on this chip
[17:58:04] <LeoNerd> It's powered from USB - I don't get how it can possibly swing up that far
[17:58:38] <sebus> oh, you put it on protoboard?
[17:58:46] <sebus> that might be also a problem
[17:58:48] <Xark> LeoNerd: That is a pretty nasty spike from a UART signal...
[17:58:49] <LeoNerd> Nope - this is a manufactured PCB
[17:58:55] <LeoNerd> Xark: Yeah; massively
[17:59:38] <sebus> how about power consumption?
[17:59:58] <sebus> maybe the mcu is bad...
[18:00:09] <LeoNerd> Ah hmm.. I don't have an easy way to measure that currently. Next on my list is building a little meter for it :)
[18:00:24] <LeoNerd> Oh mmm.. actually I could probably hack something up with a multimeter... gimme a bit
[18:00:58] <sebus> pick a microcurrent from dave
[18:01:01] <sebus> useful stuff
[18:01:17] <LeoNerd> I've just been watching those videos :)
[18:01:29] <sebus> anything faster, than ICL meters should be fine to read such stuff
[18:01:54] <sebus> even another avr with 50mOhm resistor, mcp607 op-amp will do it
[18:02:07] <LeoNerd> I'll possibly make a diffsense amp sometime that I can hook up to a pair of inputs on the scope; give it voltage + current
[18:03:09] <LeoNerd> Anyway... I'm not *overly* concerned about this blip at the moment.. it no longer seems to be upsetting timing
[18:04:00] <LeoNerd> Even if you judge by eye on the yellow traces here, there's possibly *one* more tick than there should be in that time. It's being divided by 128 to generate the UART bitrate, so... that's well under 1% error
[18:04:47] <sebus> tip for today... don't go above +/- 0.2% error
[18:05:07] <LeoNerd> Oh I've tried it on a tiny little program that just did while(1) uart_putc('X');
[18:05:18] <LeoNerd> Works 100% perfectly on the PC.. streams and streams of the letter X with no corruption at all
[18:05:42] <LeoNerd> Which is far better than it was this morning, at ... maybe 1 in 10 breaking
[18:05:48] <sebus> and what oscilloscope says?
[18:05:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> should go UUUUUU
[18:06:02] <LeoNerd> (the differences being: I resoldered the crystal load caps, and added this 100nF)
[18:06:45] <LeoNerd> UUUUU or ZZZZZZ are also useful patterns
[18:07:09] <LeoNerd> (0x55, 0x5A)
[18:07:34] <sebus> 0x55/0xAA :P
[18:07:49] <sebus> use br@y terminal (buggy but works :D)
[18:07:56] <LeoNerd> I especially like X though because it's 0x58; it has 3 low bits in a row, before the stop bit which is also low. So that's lots of low-time
[18:08:14] <LeoNerd> If you can keep up with a long stream of X's and not mistake the start bits for something else, it suggests things are good
[18:08:49] <Xark> With 8N1, "U" is a 50% duty cycle square wave. :)
[18:08:52] <LeoNerd> Anyway.. I think the hardware is "good enough" for me for now - my remaining problems are all software ones
[18:09:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've used U for autobaud apps for years.
[18:10:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> send a U and wait for an echo of said U, adjust speed, repeat..
[18:10:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> 4 good returns in a row means a good lock.
[18:12:06] <sebus> some old dos software used same technique for file transferring via serial port, when tried to autodetect link stability / speed
[18:12:16] <sebus> that was... in 1991 :>
[18:12:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> where do you think I got it from?
[18:12:32] <sebus> :P
[18:13:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> old reliable still works.
[18:13:27] * sebus still uses 386 with dos and floppies for file transferring.
[18:13:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have a couple of those but never use them anymore.
[18:14:12] <Xark> Lambda_Aurigae: Yep, same here. Added autobaud to FPGA uart recently.
[18:15:10] <Xark> I noticed on Amazon that a USB floppy drive is significantly less expensive than a box of 1.44MB floppies. :)
[18:15:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> a 4GB flash drive is less expensive than a box of floppies!
[18:15:39] <sebus> usb - floppy is crap :P
[18:15:55] <Xark> sebus: No worse than any floppy (they are all crap). :)
[18:16:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> I just wish commodore hadn't fucked up financially and all and the amiga had kept going.
[18:16:29] <sebus> I can still read floppies from late 80's... hummm
[18:16:58] <Xark> Lambda_Aurigae: Yeah. I kept using my A1000 until ~1992 when I jumped to Linux (avoided DOS and 16-bit OSes).
[18:16:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> sebus, I have a working IBM PC-XT here...dual 5.25 inch floppies and a 10MB hardcard!
[18:17:42] <sebus> Lambda_Aurigae
http://s7.fmdx.pl/pics/olivetti/
[18:17:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> Xark, there was an article I saw recently about an amiga running a school security system or something that's been doing it forever...and the cost to replace it is gonna be a mil or better as I recall.
[18:18:08] <sebus> one of mine computers I have - still working :D
[18:18:18] <Xark> sebus: I have found Apple II 5 1/4" floppies to be amazingly resilient (even when stored in hot attic - just have to cut warped jacket off). 3.5" floppies, not so much....
[18:18:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> AC and Heat system..not security.
[18:18:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.geek.com/news/commodore-amiga-computer-has-been-running-the-acheat-in-19-schools-for-30-years-1625147/
[18:19:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> 1.5 to 2 mil to replace something built by a highschool student in the 80s..
[18:19:43] * Xark links his trusty "developer" pre-release Amiga 1000 (with 20MB HDD) - and a few other "classic" systems -> https://imgur.com/fZY71kQ
[18:20:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> I had an A1000 and an A500 and later got an A2000UX
[18:20:58] <Xark> Lambda_Aurigae: I had a 500 also. I also got a A3000 with C= flicker fixer recently (nice because can use VGA - I have no Amiga RGB monitors anymore).
[18:21:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> I never did get a video toaster but I wanted one soooo bad.
[18:21:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> the unix on the amiga 2000 rocked though.
[18:22:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> such an awesome platform for the time.
[18:23:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> too bad they got screwed financially from inside and lost it all.
[18:23:42] <Xark> I had all the unix commands installed under AmgaDOS (but never ran C= Unix). :)
[18:24:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> I had the 68030 upgrade and the 20MB harddrive.
[18:24:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> couldn't fund the bridgeboard or the video toaster though.
[18:24:25] <Xark> Yeah. I used 020 card at work (Cinemaware).
[18:24:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> I remember getting booted out of the apple section of comdex in atlanta one year over the amiga.
[18:24:54] <Xark> Quite a nice speedup (and nice to get exception vs trash memory developing). :)
[18:25:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> they had a mac hooked up to a "video toaster workstation" to do video editing and such.
[18:25:16] <sebus> guys...
http://s7.fmdx.pl/WP_20150606_014.jpg
[18:25:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> I was looking it over and asked why they needed the mac. told them the amiga could do it all without the mac.
[18:25:34] <sebus> I have a lot of them...
[18:25:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> they said they didn't have an amiga there..just the video toaster workstation.
[18:25:36] <sebus> hah
[18:25:48] <Xark> sebus: Mac II?
[18:25:52] <sebus> yep
[18:25:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> so I peeled the video toaster sticker off to reveal the amiga A on the video toaster workstation...
[18:26:09] <Xark> Lambda_Aurigae: Haha
[18:26:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> then grabbed the amiga keyboard and mouse and took control from the mac and started showing people they didn't need the mac.
[18:26:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> I was asked,,not so quietly,,to leave.
[18:26:29] <sebus> also...
http://s7.fmdx.pl/WP_20141231_005.jpg
[18:26:42] <Xark> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo". :)
[18:27:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> sebus, does that amiga4000 work?
[18:27:42] <sebus> I resurrect them from death....
[18:27:44] <sebus> yep
[18:27:54] <sebus> almost everything I own works.
[18:27:55] <Xark> sebus: Quite the collection. Too bad I had to fill a dumpster with computers ~10 years ago moving.
[18:28:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> I wrote some software for a company that used a video cube to store video and amiga computers to do video editing....back in the 90s..
[18:28:20] <sebus> Xark you can see them in... computer museum.
[18:28:24] <Xark> sebus: Oric even? :)
[18:28:29] <sebus> oric 1!
[18:28:30] <sebus> yep
[18:28:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> in 1994, the video cube had 1GB of harddrives in it!
[18:28:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> high end SCSI drives even.
[18:28:49] <sebus> and even
http://s7.fmdx.pl/tatung.jpg
[18:28:51] <sebus> :D
[18:29:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> I need to pull the vic-20 back out and hook it to the projector again.
[18:29:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> I love the old vic-20 games dangit!
[18:29:32] <Xark> sebus: Wow...never even seen one of those before...
[18:29:45] <Xark> ...and I have seen most old systems :)
[18:29:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> ok..off to the real world for a while.
[18:30:07] <Xark> Lambda_Aurigae: I still have a Vic-20 (in a box with Osborne I). :)
[18:31:31] <sebus> Xark
http://s7.fmdx.pl/room2.jpg
[18:31:37] <sebus> :D
[18:32:02] <sebus> C= pet died
[18:32:52] <Xark> sebus: That looks extremely similar to my aunt's "Computer Workshop" in the 80s (like a school for teaching kids about computers). I of course moved in with her... :)
[18:34:04] <Xark> I got a PET-2001 from the school district (as payment for developing software for them). :)
[18:34:13] <Xark> (In high school)
[18:34:54] <Xark> sebus: What is the machine in the right corner? OSI-C1P?
[18:35:07] <Xark> Looks kind of pet-like though...
[18:35:17] <sebus> PET
[18:35:21] <sebus> heavily upgraded
[18:35:50] <Xark> I see. My keyboard was much suckier (calculator type, with most keycaps worn off). :)
[18:35:50] <sebus> some german guy upgraded it up to 256k of RAM and over 30 ROM chips with software
[18:36:24] <Xark> Also a "black" C64?
[18:36:32] <Xark> Or is that plus-4 or similar?
[18:36:41] <sebus> C=16
[18:36:45] <Xark> Ahh
[18:37:26] <Xark> Looks like aftermarket keyboard on Atari 400 too (gee, I wonder why - don't love "spill proof" one). :)
[18:37:28] <sebus> C= +4 has faulty keyboard...
[18:38:12] <sebus> and atari 400 has a dumb switch in trapdoor to cut-off power from system. Also faulty/weak stuff.
[18:38:55] <Xark> sebus: Yeah. I remember circumventing that. I ran Atari 800 without case (because expansion RAMdisk board would overheat).
[18:39:06] <Xark> Built like a tank
[18:39:16] <sebus> http://s7.fmdx.pl/room2_1.jpg
[18:39:18] <Xark> (Massive metal shielding)
[18:39:30] <sebus> sharp computer, msx and pong clone :P
[18:39:55] <Xark> Love the yellow TV too! :D
[18:40:05] <sebus> Neptun. Crap :D
[18:41:22] <Xark> sebus: Well, I am quite impressed with your collection. :)
[18:41:29] <sebus> guys at unitra did something really bad with power input circuit. They used too small rectifier. :P
[18:41:33] <Xark> I need to get some "stuff done" now too.
[18:41:56] <sebus> Xark
http://s7.fmdx.pl/room2_2.jpg
[18:41:59] <Xark> sebus: Fire hazard?
[18:42:01] <sebus> and Acorn computers...
[18:42:32] <Xark> sebus: I really wanted one of those (2MHz "turbo" 6502 and assembler support in BASIC), but crazy expensive in US.
[18:43:09] <sebus> Xark, yep. they could catch up in fire (like CCCP Rubin 714 colour tv)
[18:43:20] <Xark> I ended up getting a free 3.5Mhz speedup card for my Apple //e (worked for company that made them). ->
http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple%20II%20Documentation%20Project/Interface%20Cards/Accelerators/McT%20SpeeDemon/Photos/
[18:43:59] <Xark> sebus: I see.
[18:44:04] * Xark waves
[18:44:08] <Xark> TTYL
[18:44:25] <sebus> I have Apple MC1
[18:44:32] <sebus> add-on
[18:44:50] <Xark> Music card?
[18:44:53] <sebus> yep
[18:44:58] <Xark> I remember those.
[18:45:08] <sebus> picked up one from... junk yard
[18:45:46] <Xark> I remember meeting Herbie Hancock at an Apple convention (I think demoing some synth thing for Mountain Computer IIRC). :)
[18:46:34] <Xark> ...okay really leaving now. :)
[18:47:18] <sebus> http://s7.fmdx.pl/room2_3.jpg
[18:47:25] <sebus> last thing from that tiny room
[18:47:26] <sebus> :P
[18:47:43] <sebus> o/
