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[09:35:36] <ionte> hi, i asked this question on #arduino, but perhaps someone can help me here ...
[09:35:59] <ionte> i use avrdude + avrisp mkii + osx, and it works, but before each upload i get this error:
[09:36:10] <ionte> avrdude: stk500v2_recv_mk2: error in USB receive
[09:37:09] <ionte> this error is repeated three times, and then the upload finishes successfully. but before each error there is a delay of about 10 seconds, so each upload takes more than 30 seconds. very annoying.
[09:37:33] <ionte> any ideas?
[09:37:55] <ionte> i have the latest libusb and avrdude from homebrew and i've had this error for more than a year now
[09:41:07] <pepijndevos> How can I store a pointer in pgmspace that points to another piece of pgmspace?
[09:41:54] <pepijndevos> Like... put a linked list in pgmspace, if that makes any sense.
[09:42:22] <pepijndevos> I get error: initializer element is not constant
[09:44:31] <pepijndevos> oh, hur dur... fix
[10:06:51] <Kre10s> whats the smallest avr with SPI?
[10:23:25] <Kre10s> How can I tell if avrdude will be able to program a certain chip?
[12:03:22] <hypermagic> hi
[12:07:23] <hypermagic> Kre10s, i think any avr can do spi, you can bitbang it too
[12:07:36] <hypermagic> that is software spi
[12:58:32] <hypermagic> would you add your own power consumption to the measured power in a power meter?
[12:59:20] <hypermagic> it would be like 0.5-5W
[13:11:09] <Kev> I guess it depends how you're going to use your meter thingy (eg if you want to measure the consumption of several different devices, I would not add it, now if you're measuring how much the whole house needs, yeah, add it)
[13:49:57] <aczid> hypermagic: well, ret/reti is expensive :(
[14:12:56] <aczid> hypermagic: and ISRs are expensive. Not so much because of that single reti, but because the entire stack frame is trashed for each time it hits
[14:13:17] <aczid> well, that turned out to be the bottleneck in my case
[14:13:37] <hypermagic> aczid, i didn't have any problems with them in 8MHz internal RC osc mode
[14:13:43] <aczid> so 'ugly' C that waits for the interrupt flag can actually be significantly faster than equivalent code split into an ISR
[14:14:02] <aczid> well, I told you about my 500k device :)
[14:14:07] <hypermagic> yea
[14:14:23] <aczid> on 3.9kbaud that leaves about 256 instructions to put a bit on the line. using ISRs killed that performance
[14:14:26] <hypermagic> so you do much computation at that clock?
[14:14:40] <hypermagic> 1MHz is low power too btw
[14:14:42] <aczid> doing a loop and waiting cost less overhead
[14:14:53] <aczid> yeah, but that's not a prescaler setting I can select on the devkit ;)
[14:14:56] <hypermagic> i don't know now the actual gain of using lower clock ^^
[14:15:13] <aczid> I do quite a bit of computation, but all outside of the radio stuff
[14:15:14] <hypermagic> but you could run off a 32768Hz crystal
[14:15:44] <aczid> sorry, 256 cycles
[14:15:51] <aczid> that's actually only a handful of instructions
[14:16:15] <aczid> especially if one of those instructions can cost you 4 cycles :D
[14:16:23] <hypermagic> you probably want the lowest possible power consumption
[14:16:28] <aczid> yep
[14:16:37] <aczid> ideally I'd clock it even lower in software
[14:16:40] <hypermagic> but check the power draw before optimizing for 500 hours ;)
[14:16:52] <aczid> yes, that's what I'm doing in the 500 khz setting :D
[14:17:03] <hypermagic> how much more would be 1MHz? ;>
[14:17:28] <aczid> well then I guess I'd use a different fuse/timer0 configuration
[14:17:40] <hypermagic> 1MHz 200uA and 500kHz 150uA ?
[14:17:41] <aczid> I haven't done any actual measurements yet, I'm going on some example code from atmel
[14:17:55] <hypermagic> you sohuld :)
[14:18:00] <aczid> yes :)
[14:18:07] <aczid> but the device is multi feature
[14:18:17] <hypermagic> there are ertain limits in technology where you approach the leakage current of the device
[14:18:18] <aczid> that hardware 8x prescaler is something I probably want
[14:18:21] <hypermagic> c
[14:18:37] <aczid> I'm sure atmel has drawn up something that actually works though :)
[14:18:37] <hypermagic> so at some point you will gain less and less in underclocking
[14:18:43] <aczid> sure
[14:18:48] <aczid> law of diminishing returns I guess
[14:19:07] <hypermagic> Pdraw = Icc + ( fcpu * cdyn )
[14:19:21] <hypermagic> same as with a cmos gate
[14:19:55] <aczid> well, I was trying to report to you that my woes were alleviated when I chose this approach :)
[14:20:11] <aczid> it works fine now at 4kbaud
[14:20:18] <aczid> can even push it a bit beyond that
[14:20:26] <hypermagic> so if fcpu * cdyn is already like 10% of Icc at 500kHz then you can not gain much by lowering clock anymore
[14:20:48] <aczid> yes, I think this 500k setting is fine.
[14:21:01] <aczid> sorry I can't go to much into the power requirements
[14:21:14] <aczid> also I'm not a hardware guy at all :D
[14:21:17] <hypermagic> but this would mean that fcpu * cdyn is 20% of Icc at 1MHz :P
[14:21:33] <hypermagic> so 110% vs 120%... and double the clock speed
[14:21:37] <aczid> 1MHz is not convenient. but 500k is
[14:21:38] <hypermagic> my point was this
[14:21:43] <aczid> gotcha
[14:22:08] <hypermagic> do yo use a watch crystal too? :)
[14:22:09] <aczid> do you happen to know of any difference in power usage in software or fuse prescaler settings?
[14:22:17] <aczid> no comment
[14:22:30] <hypermagic> i like it that i can use my watch crysta in the atmega168 and similar asynchronously
[14:22:40] <hypermagic> l
[14:22:44] <aczid> how do you mean async?
[14:22:49] <hypermagic> as i say
[14:22:50] <hypermagic> :)
[14:23:03] <aczid> multiple chips on the same crystal?
[14:23:08] <aczid> or what
[14:23:09] <hypermagic> it runs asynchronously, and i used 8MHz internal rc osc for the cpu
[14:23:28] <hypermagic> and i can use the crystal for time
[14:23:48] <aczid> but wouldn't you need to hook it up to a timer too?
[14:24:10] <hypermagic> there is an asynchronous timer mode for it
[14:24:14] <hypermagic> yes
[14:24:23] <aczid> aah
[14:24:24] <aczid> TIL
[14:24:54] <aczid> it's sort of similar yes. I am using an external clock :)
[14:25:17] <aczid> for this radio thing
[14:25:35] <hypermagic> in the supersecret killer drone ;>
[14:25:40] <aczid> haha
[14:26:28] <aczid> well it's sort of covered in my master's thesis which will become public. but then there is also a commercial product development cycle that I tried to keep out of that as much a possible :)
[14:27:06] <hypermagic> what is your goal ?
[14:27:09] <aczid> soon enough I can tell all, I hope :)
[14:27:18] <aczid> well, world domination, ofcourse :)
[14:27:21] <aczid> you were right on that one
[14:27:23] <hypermagic> ohh ;)
[14:27:41] <hypermagic> but you are late for that :(
[14:27:53] <hypermagic> this world is already taken
[14:28:08] <aczid> pff you're bringing me down now :(
[14:28:20] <hypermagic> though there is still hope
[14:28:34] <hypermagic> we could team up and make a spacetime warping device
[14:28:53] <aczid> something heavy? :)
[14:29:02] <ad0nis> Did anyone ever answer my question about the RZUSBSTICK over the weekend? Should I just assume there's something wrong with the firmware file I'm using since I can successfully flash other firmwares to the device?
[14:29:07] <aczid> haha. well I'm sure we could atleast make something that measures spacetime warming :P
[14:29:14] <aczid> warping*
[14:29:14] <hypermagic> and a blackhole power extractor would be nice too
[14:29:36] <aczid> well that should be easy... it spews hawking radiation
[14:29:42] <aczid> just get up real close
[14:29:49] * aczid wearing his CERN t-shirt btw :P
[14:30:03] <hypermagic> aczid, distance is an illusion :)
[14:30:18] <aczid> my middle name is ACTUALLY Zeno ;)
[14:30:24] <aczid> so I know all about that
[14:30:30] <hypermagic> cool
[14:30:37] <aczid> the z in aczid
[14:31:11] <aczid> how do you propose to warp spacetime?
[14:31:18] <aczid> we need a pretty good bend to timetravel right?
[14:31:43] <aczid> more like a fold
[14:31:44] <hypermagic> i'd say closer to teleportation
[14:31:50] <aczid> same thing
[14:32:01] <hypermagic> and walking through "solid matter"
[14:32:01] <aczid> same medium
[14:32:31] <hypermagic> should i detail these on an open channel? ;>>
[14:32:56] <aczid> how about you just think the thoughts and I'll astrally project into your consciousness :)
[14:33:15] <hypermagic> good
[14:33:30] <hypermagic> that should be secure
[14:33:58] <aczid> we can do DH key exchange over that channel too
[14:34:29] <hypermagic> rather 1 million bit encryption with fault tolerance
[14:34:49] <hypermagic> the mind is a parallel computer
[14:35:06] <aczid> hypermagic: I have a feeling you might like all the nonsense going on here, even if for a second of bemusement
http://www.reddit.com/r/VXJunkies/
[14:35:43] <aczid> hypermagic: good point, I'm sure you could just think your way to Shor's algorithm
[14:36:03] <aczid> how many bits in a brain-word? double that for symmetric key length
[14:36:24] <aczid> for DH we can also use elliptic curves
[14:37:08] <hypermagic> brain bits are not binary btw :)
[14:39:14] <hypermagic> aczid, i have things that cia might like to copy if they hack onto my pc, but unfortunately it is not connected to the network :(
[14:41:11] <aczid> hypermagic: this rule of thumb goes for qubits. a 2n symmetric keylength would be secure against an n-bit QC
[14:41:34] <aczid> I wouldn't brag about that on irc if I had it :P
[14:42:29] <hypermagic> i know they read this too lol
[14:44:01] <hypermagic> also there is no such thing as "security"
[14:44:14] <hypermagic> since everything is designed to be non secure
[14:44:36] <hypermagic> secure means owned by the cia/nsa
[14:45:41] <hypermagic> do you really believe by creating a "seecure" channel and sending your key will be impossible to decrypt ?
[14:46:03] <hypermagic> you already sent your key too *facepalm* it is not even hard
[14:46:07] <aczid> well, something that's impossible to decrypt defeats the purpose of encryption ;)
[14:46:14] <aczid> true
[14:46:22] <aczid> just solve the factoring problem and you're done
[14:47:23] <hypermagic> there are big black boxes that are plugged into large backbones that on-the-fly decrypts your ssl-tls-msn-skype and whatever
[14:47:42] <aczid> i know, but they get some extralegal help for that
[14:47:45] <hypermagic> and do heuristics on your activity searching for things
[14:47:52] <aczid> they don't suspend the laws of math just to snoop on you and me
[14:48:11] <hypermagic> everything is legal the government does. remember this
[14:48:23] <hypermagic> they make the laws.
[14:48:25] <aczid> that's why I didn't say illegal. extralegal :)
[14:48:46] <aczid> it's on a different plane
[14:49:34] <hypermagic> aczid, did i miss something? you saing that you can hack something that is not wired to any network?
[14:49:45] <aczid> uhm, did I?
[14:49:57] <aczid> I'm pretty sure I did not
[14:50:10] <aczid> btw hypermagic
http://stopnerds.org/ :)
[14:50:17] <aczid> jokes
[14:50:51] <aczid> hypermagic: anyway, all your electronics emit EM radiation
[14:51:08] <aczid> so plenty of ways in through that
[14:51:23] <aczid> also, hack the human
[14:51:36] <hypermagic> i am perfectly normal, the voices told me that too.
[14:51:52] <aczid> I have a certificate stating I'm definitely not insane.
[14:52:01] <hypermagic> i don't but who cares
[14:52:27] <aczid> I hope you also don't hear voices... :)
[14:52:29] <aczid> jokes hypermagic
[14:52:53] <aczid> the only reason to get such a cert if there was any doubt, get it ;)
[14:52:55] <hypermagic> aczid, i can talk to myself ;>> why not?
[14:53:10] <aczid> I think hearing voices is different from having an internal monologue
[14:53:19] <aczid> but I guess we can never be sure
[14:53:31] <hypermagic> there is also subconscious
[14:53:42] <hypermagic> massive parallel processing
[14:53:52] <hypermagic> we could say background apps lol
[14:53:54] <aczid> yeah, kind of hardwired though
[14:54:01] <aczid> bootrom
[14:54:03] <aczid> I'd say :)
[14:54:19] <aczid> using a lot of interrupts
[14:54:21] <hypermagic> you are fked if yit gets a virus :)
[14:54:43] <aczid> man, I'm sure that kind of stuff can be engineered soon enough
[14:54:58] <hypermagic> viruses easily can be gathered from broadcasted media like cnn
[14:55:06] <aczid> philip k dick is going to become a prophet lol
[14:55:16] <aczid> haha true that
[14:55:25] <aczid> or facebook ftm
[14:55:28] <hypermagic> yep
[14:55:44] <hypermagic> those are worms, trojans, viruses, malware for your mind
[14:55:53] <aczid> aye
[14:56:06] <aczid> reddit's pretty shit too to be honest :(
[14:56:08] <aczid> and IRC...
[14:56:19] <aczid> variety though
[14:56:46] <hypermagic> 4chan is even shitter
[14:56:51] <aczid> at least we are having a conversation and are not merely being programmed
[14:57:08] <aczid> note, not MERELY :)
[14:57:38] <hypermagic> but i'm sure you are addicted to at least 1-2 drugs :)
[14:57:48] <aczid> sure :)
[14:57:57] <hypermagic> msg,caffe, alcohol
[14:57:59] <aczid> smoking + coffee now
[14:58:06] <aczid> oh and beer
[14:58:11] <hypermagic> oh
[14:58:12] <aczid> not sure that's an addiction tho
[14:58:19] <hypermagic> so ur additcted to nicotine too
[14:58:21] <aczid> smoking + coffee definitely are
[14:58:22] <hypermagic> sux
[14:58:25] <aczid> guess so
[14:58:32] <hypermagic> that is a neurotoxin
[14:58:36] <aczid> i know
[14:58:52] <aczid> msg is pretty minor on that list tho lol
[14:58:52] <hypermagic> you kill your brain and know it ^^
[14:59:04] <hypermagic> it is not ;) but have fun with it
[14:59:14] <aczid> can you trip on msg? lol
[14:59:17] <hypermagic> it is an excitotoxin, killing your brain cells
[14:59:41] <hypermagic> by over-exciting them
[14:59:42] <aczid> no shit
[14:59:49] <aczid> I'll look that up
[14:59:51] <hypermagic> oh and is highly addictive
[15:00:05] <hypermagic> you get it in every fast food, and cola and drinks....
[15:00:06] <aczid> I'm pretty sure it is already in everything
[15:00:09] <aczid> yeah
[15:00:28] <hypermagic> not yet in unprocessed things you grow
[15:00:42] <hypermagic> only simple poisons in water/air/ground
[15:01:14] <hypermagic> and some radioactive fallout
[15:01:35] <hypermagic> you know, we can set a "safety limit" and everything is fine
[15:01:41] <aczid> idk man, I wish I could just upload my brain :D
[15:01:52] <aczid> stupid faulty human body
[15:01:55] <hypermagic> yep
[15:02:04] <hypermagic> aczid, thinking about stargate sg1 ?
[15:02:13] <aczid> I never really got into that show
[15:02:22] <aczid> they were still in their own bodies right?
[15:02:27] <hypermagic> would be nice to transform into the glowing energy ball thing
[15:02:28] <aczid> was thinking more johnny mnemonic
[15:02:39] <aczid> or lawnmower man
[15:03:01] <hypermagic> no
[15:03:15] <aczid> oh like I said, never got that into it
[15:05:21] <hypermagic> aczid,
http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Meridian
[15:05:30] <hypermagic> exactly what happened was what you said :)
[15:07:03] <aczid> ah I remember this Star Trek TNG episode where they put some people inside a palm-of-your-hand-sized Holodeck brick
[15:07:49] <aczid> i don't know man, that synopsys doesn't really say it and the plot is tl;dr / looks quite involved
[15:08:10] <aczid> I'm downloading both those keanu reeves scifi flicks out of nostalgia ^^
[15:09:22] <hypermagic> "Daniel dies of radiation poisoning in season 5's "Meridian" and Ascends to a higher plane until season 7"
[15:10:02] <hypermagic> aczid, haha yea there is a thing like that in stargate atlantis too
[15:10:14] <hypermagic> well, matter = energy :/
[15:10:21] <hypermagic> it is not impossible in theory
[15:11:00] <aczid> no that sounds like mumbo jumbo
[15:11:44] <hypermagic> you argue with an atom may be converted to equivalent energy ?
[15:12:34] <hypermagic> summing an electron with a positron ?
[15:35:46] <hypermagic> aczid, still fighting with ticks ?;>
[15:36:19] <aczid> hypermagic: no man, I tried to report to you that I solved that yesterday by re-structuring the code to do it without ISRs
[15:36:23] <aczid> :)
[15:36:42] <aczid> no stack trashing = just fast enough in C
[15:36:51] <hypermagic> sounds good
[15:37:13] <aczid> compiler also understands the context between code in the function and in the interrupt, so it optimizes well and like I said doesn't even create a stack frame for the function anymore, it it's 'pure' in a functional sense
[15:37:31] <aczid> s/it it's/so it's
[15:52:49] <hypermagic> aczid, did you know the ps2 was a nice i2c/spi like half duplex data transmission protocol with resend, ping and parity functionality?
[15:53:53] <hypermagic> "modern" crap will just not even support it anymore, also, the things usually don't even support its parity that was in the ps2 standard
[15:59:40] <aczid> hypermagic: that's nice and random, so no I did not know that :D
[15:59:53] <aczid> I only got into embedded software seriously last year...
[16:00:42] <hypermagic> i made a ps2 keyboard a few years ago
[16:01:33] <aczid> cool
[16:01:44] <aczid> I made USB-HID emulator on my USBasp earlier this year :D
[16:02:01] <aczid> well to be honest I mostly stole some example code and modified it :P
[16:02:04] <hypermagic> was not easy to find a complete original standard of something that was created 30 years ago and they hardware vendors would like it to disappear
[16:02:25] <aczid> I believe I saw a detailed analysis of the spec in a zine around 2000
[16:02:35] <aczid> non-english though
[16:02:40] <hypermagic> :)
[16:03:14] <hypermagic> and i'm somewhat sure the cheap $1 keyboards from china does not comply with the standard
[16:03:19] <aczid> so tell me, did the oldskool big DIN connectors use the same protocol as the midi-DIN?
[16:03:29] <learath> yes
[16:03:33] <learath> they are identical
[16:03:38] <aczid> yeah, that's what I figured
[16:03:42] <hypermagic> if you swap the connector you get a new keyboard :P
[16:03:48] <aczid> one of those question one never dares to ask :P
[16:04:26] <hypermagic> so if you got a 15 year old keyb that has some weight too, with a large din, you can use it in your new pc
[16:04:46] <aczid> yes, now that I think of it... we had converters. lol
[16:04:54] <aczid> DIN2midiDIN2USB
[16:04:57] <aczid> :)
[16:05:00] <hypermagic> you odn't need "converters"
[16:05:02] <hypermagic> <;
[16:05:07] <hypermagic> just solder the new cable
[16:05:08] <aczid> ofcourse
[16:05:13] <aczid> rewire-ers morelike
[16:05:25] <hypermagic> from a cheap junk $1 chinese one for example that broke but the cable works
[16:05:46] <hypermagic> oh btw you can use a ps2 mouse cable too ;>> they differ in color, i like the green though
[16:06:18] <hypermagic> and the standard also defined mouse and keyboard being interchangeable.
[16:06:20] <aczid> well yeah, cable is cable obviously :)
[16:06:49] <hypermagic> how often did you see computers with 2 ps2 ports that could handle mouse keyboard swapped ?
[16:06:50] <aczid> so did USB-HID adopt all the ps/2 stuff? or rework the whole thing?
[16:06:57] <aczid> never
[16:07:01] <hypermagic> usb is usb...
[16:07:06] <aczid> k
[16:07:10] <hypermagic> and its hardware layer is borderline crap
[16:07:14] <aczid> but there were converters
[16:07:20] <hypermagic> sure you can make one
[16:07:23] <aczid> so it's a ps/2 legacy mode for that on the mobo?
[16:07:31] <aczid> in its bios/fw whathaveyou
[16:07:31] <hypermagic> convert the nice ps2 bus to junk usb
[16:08:07] <aczid> well I mean, there were usb to midi DIN converters
[16:08:15] <hypermagic> read the usb.org standard and decide if you like it for microcontroller use :)
[16:08:18] <aczid> so did those mice just have dual protocol support?
[16:08:36] <aczid> must be some kind of trickery I tell ya :P
[16:08:37] <hypermagic> you need for example a 12MHz +- 100ppm precision clock, and send receive data at the exact speed
[16:09:50] <hypermagic> this is only for overcomplicating a piece of crap so they can sell some 'new" junk again for money
[16:09:58] <hypermagic> when they make faster version
[16:10:16] <hypermagic> and to make it incompatible, and hard to use for your simple mcu projects
[16:10:39] <learath> interestingly, most usb keyboards/mice will still support ps2
[16:10:44] <learath> well. that may have changed.
[16:10:58] <aczid> learath: yeah that's what I was asking about... those converters
[16:10:59] <hypermagic> you may wonder why they won't use usb on military aircraft bus and spaceships
[16:11:16] <learath> not really
[16:11:17] <aczid> learath: what an ugly hack :(
[16:11:29] <learath> I also don't wonder why they don't use Lucas Electronics on spaceships :P
[16:11:40] <learath> I do wonder why they use windows, but that's a different question.
[16:11:50] <hypermagic> learath, whatever that is :)
[16:11:53] <aczid> yeah man that gives me the shivers
[16:12:03] <aczid> try not to think about it
[16:12:33] <hypermagic> i read an article (part of it) that stated that computers in fukushima nuclear power plant use windows xp
[16:12:34] <hypermagic> hahaha
[16:13:22] <aczid> mre correlation :)
[16:13:24] <aczid> mere*
[16:13:44] <hypermagic> imagine clippy popping up and asking something and an exception throws, halting the regulation control of the fuel rods
[16:13:44] <learath> I think it's more the FUCKING 10 METER TSUNAMI
[16:13:48] <learath> but what do I know
[16:14:13] <aczid> but you could say the same thing about linux, other unixes, intel, chinese microcontrolelr fabs, etc
[16:14:31] <hypermagic> no clippy on my mcu!
[16:14:54] <aczid> lol clippy on nuclear plant software, stop scaring me you nut :D
[16:21:44] <hypermagic> clippy
http://www.bignjuicy.co.uk/suicide.jpg
[16:33:23] <hypermagic> do you think this makes sense?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heapsort
[17:07:46] <FL4SHK> hypermagic: I've implemented heapsort before
[17:08:00] <FL4SHK> In more than language IIRC
[17:08:40] <FL4SHK> I don't remember if it's a stable sort...
[17:08:59] <FL4SHK> But, IIRC, I used that wikipedia article to implement the heap sort
[17:30:06] <hypermagic> FL4SHK, that article states it is not stable :)
[17:30:36] <hypermagic> i think it is overcomplicated for no gain
[18:17:39] <FL4SHK> Huh
[18:17:53] <FL4SHK> Well hypermagic I might have used some other websites for help
[18:18:49] <hypermagic> i liked the selection and insertion and quick-sort better
[18:19:11] <hypermagic> best being the merge sort for large sets
[18:19:38] <FL4SHK> Hm
[18:19:43] <FL4SHK> Well, "best" is debateable
[18:19:49] <FL4SHK> But I really like merge sort
[18:50:33] <aczid> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPRA0W1kECg
[18:50:38] <aczid> who's best now?
[18:50:40] <aczid> :)
[18:52:02] <hypermagic> that horseshit minitube is broken again
[18:53:30] <aczid> love these sounds :D
[18:53:34] <aczid> hypermagic: wfm
[18:54:01] <hypermagic> minitube is a youtube video watcher thingy on linux
[18:54:54] <aczid> no wonder the CIA has files on you :P
[18:55:01] <Lambda-Aurigae> bah.
[18:55:06] <aczid> some kind of FLOSS exterminst huh :D
[18:55:09] <Lambda-Aurigae> they ain't got nothing on him like they got on me.
[18:55:24] <Lambda-Aurigae> I KNOW the FBI has a file on me...
[18:55:42] <Lambda-Aurigae> I've seen it twice.
[18:56:10] <aczid> cool what does it say
[18:56:23] <Lambda-Aurigae> at one point in my life it had a big red DO NOT DETAIN in it.
[18:56:32] <aczid> well I guess maybe not so cool for you, sorry
[18:56:33] <Lambda-Aurigae> that lasted about 5 years after I got out of the military.
[18:56:46] <aczid> sounds like a perk
[18:56:47] <Lambda-Aurigae> then they figured out their clerical mistake and fixed it.
[18:56:52] <aczid> lol
[18:56:53] <Lambda-Aurigae> that was actually.
[18:57:13] <Lambda-Aurigae> I used to have a USAF/DOD Top Secret SCI clearance when I was in the military.
[18:57:14] <aczid> could be way worse :)
[18:57:35] <aczid> too bad you can't talk about all the neat struff you've seen
[18:57:42] <Lambda-Aurigae> I can talk about some of it.
[18:57:43] <hypermagic> :)
[18:57:51] <Lambda-Aurigae> some is still classified...and I got out in 1992.
[18:57:51] <aczid> those bragging rights, though
[18:58:20] <aczid> my dad can beat up your dad any day of the week btw ;)
[18:58:28] <Lambda-Aurigae> probably
[18:58:37] <Lambda-Aurigae> but my dad can outsurvive yours.
[18:58:49] <Lambda-Aurigae> he used to teach survival in the military.
[18:58:54] <aczid> was just bragging lol
[18:59:06] <hypermagic> i was also on mars and helped my alien friends build some stuff and i teleported back on earth because it was boring there
[18:59:16] <Lambda-Aurigae> hehe.
[18:59:44] <hypermagic> you know, no bikini girls on the beach there :(
[18:59:50] <aczid> hypermagic: and then I invented the internet. twice.
[19:00:09] <Lambda-Aurigae> but did you ever get to fly a satellite?
[19:00:36] <hypermagic> those fly automatically, why would i?
[19:00:43] <Lambda-Aurigae> not all the time they don't!
[19:00:59] <Lambda-Aurigae> part of what I did involved positioning and using sats.
[19:01:02] <aczid> well if you are extra-terrestrial, then you are a satellite right? as long as you're in orbit momentarily
[19:01:43] <aczid> there's this presentation from (I think) blackhat called "hacking a bird in the sky"
[19:01:47] <hypermagic> Lambda-Aurigae, so you lost your do not detain status ? :(
[19:01:48] <aczid> might be of interest to you Lambda-Aurigae
[19:02:03] <Lambda-Aurigae> hypermagic, yeah...it was kinda sad too.
[19:02:04] <hypermagic> license to kill ?
[19:02:23] <hypermagic> 007 Lambda-Aurigae
[19:02:25] <Lambda-Aurigae> nope...licensed to carry concealed on commercial aircraft for a year though.
[19:02:40] <aczid> it was HackInTheBox:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLbRuJikb1U
[19:03:15] <Lambda-Aurigae> carried concealed while traveling with classified equipment to several places around the world.
[19:03:49] <hypermagic> anyway if you are running around bith a bag of secret military hardware then i'd guess you have a few guards with machine guns with them
[19:03:55] <hypermagic> and body armor
[19:04:06] <Lambda-Aurigae> small case actually.
[19:04:13] <Lambda-Aurigae> and always had a second person with me.
[19:04:30] <Lambda-Aurigae> did that four times.
[19:04:45] <Lambda-Aurigae> never had to draw weapon.
[19:04:57] <hypermagic> because there was no info leak haha
[19:05:04] <aczid> Lambda-Aurigae: are you at all intruiged by those guys hacking satellites? cause I thought it was great
[19:05:15] <Lambda-Aurigae> it's just another hack.
[19:05:26] <Lambda-Aurigae> any hardware/software combo can be hacked with the right gear.
[19:05:39] <Lambda-Aurigae> only way to secure something is to pull the power plug.
[19:05:55] <aczid> well, I think the prerequisites are a bit more impressive in this case
[19:06:04] <Lambda-Aurigae> with the right transmitter you can hack the curiosity rover.
[19:06:19] <aczid> barring some actual security
[19:06:19] <Lambda-Aurigae> I know how simple the crypto is on those satellites.
[19:06:34] <hypermagic> Lambda-Aurigae, i saw a website like a year ago about a guy who made a huge satellite dish satellite tracker and tuned it onto military satellites, tracked them
[19:06:34] <aczid> that's f-ing scary
[19:06:37] <hypermagic> i don't know if he still lives
[19:06:39] <hypermagic> :)
[19:06:41] <Lambda-Aurigae> the technology is 10 to 20 years behind what you have in your house.
[19:06:46] <hypermagic> you'd like the page
[19:07:03] <Lambda-Aurigae> hypermagic, saw it...
[19:07:11] <hypermagic> Lambda-Aurigae, the neighbors were like he is probably just communicating with aliens ;>>
[19:07:12] <Lambda-Aurigae> again, tracking satellites isn't difficult.
[19:07:21] <Lambda-Aurigae> they emit a lot of RF.
[19:07:31] <Lambda-Aurigae> just gotta know what you are looking for.
[19:08:08] <Lambda-Aurigae> communing with them on the other hand, that can be tricky...
[19:08:20] <Lambda-Aurigae> but, they used to say reversing a unix password hash was impossible.
[19:08:36] <aczid> no but they actually took over this satellite
[19:08:40] <aczid> adjusted its orbit
[19:08:45] <Lambda-Aurigae> a frenchman proved it could be done in under a week with a dozen computers back in 1998 or so.
[19:08:57] <hypermagic> http://amsat-uk.org/2013/12/29/hillbilly-tracking-for-low-earth-orbit-satellites/
[19:08:59] <hypermagic> ahaha
[19:09:00] <aczid> which is kind of sci-fi
[19:09:20] <hypermagic> http://travisgoodspeed.blogspot.hu/2013/07/hillbilly-tracking-of-low-earth-orbit.html
[19:09:25] <hypermagic> here it is
[19:09:39] <aczid> yeah I saw that
[19:09:40] <hypermagic> that dish looks nice
[19:09:55] <hypermagic> with that spiral end rod
[19:09:56] <Lambda-Aurigae> the dish is nothing...the LNB is what makes it.
[19:09:56] <aczid> equally cool. travis is a boss
[19:10:32] <Lambda-Aurigae> well, LNA, but,,
[19:11:41] <Lambda-Aurigae> heck, he is using a pre-made ephemeris database to actually track.
[19:11:41] <hypermagic> i'm sure he decrypted the communication
[19:11:43] <hypermagic> ^^
[19:12:00] <Lambda-Aurigae> he points where the sat is supposed to be and listens.
[19:13:36] <Lambda-Aurigae> looks like good work though.
[19:14:01] <hypermagic> "Being written in Pygame, I can run the same exact code on both my laptop and my phones. Coding new features while bored on the Ubahn is a lot healthier than Angry Birds or Sudoku."
[19:14:05] <aczid> this guy has built so much cool shit in the past few years
[19:15:31] <aczid> his hacks on the msp430 are also really nice
[19:15:42] <Lambda-Aurigae> the msp430 IS a hack!
[19:16:12] <hypermagic> yea
[19:16:13] <hypermagic> http://travisgoodspeed.blogspot.hu/search?updated-min=2011-01-01T00:00:00-05:00&updated-max=2012-01-01T00:00:00-05:00&max-results=7
[19:16:45] <hypermagic> Lambda-Aurigae, i used atmega instead of msp4* did i miss something? :(
[19:17:02] <Lambda-Aurigae> hypermagic, you are ok then.
[19:17:17] <Lambda-Aurigae> msp430 is TI's entry into the low to mid range microcontroller world.
[19:17:26] <hypermagic> for some reason i don't like the ti msps :/
[19:17:37] <Lambda-Aurigae> tend to be a bit faster clock for clock than avr but harder to work with.
[19:18:20] <hypermagic> is is nt that junk like pic, but still
[19:18:39] <MrMobius> Lambda-Aurigae, harder to work with how?
[19:18:40] <Lambda-Aurigae> pic has its place.
[19:18:44] <MrMobius> Ive had great luck with msp430s
[19:19:00] <hypermagic> MrMobius, what did you create with it?
[19:19:07] <Lambda-Aurigae> I just find them harder to work with in the linux world..or did when I was working with them
[19:19:10] <MrMobius> im sure being 16 bit does give it an edge
[19:19:17] <hypermagic> hm...
[19:19:30] <hypermagic> i'd consider an arm for larger processing power
[19:19:31] <Lambda-Aurigae> programmer isn't as simplistic,,,software wasn't as readily available and usable.
[19:19:46] <Lambda-Aurigae> hypermagic, I use pic32 for a midrange above AVR.
[19:20:01] <Lambda-Aurigae> beyond that I go with old cellphones for ARM systems these days.
[19:20:10] <hypermagic> :)
[19:20:25] <hypermagic> Lambda-Aurigae, you'd use a phone ?
[19:20:27] <MrMobius> hypermagic, lots of things. like this
http://forum.43oh.com/topic/5003-rpn-scientific-calculator/
[19:20:37] <hypermagic> but you dont even know what those chips are
[19:20:39] <MrMobius> msp430 is really for low power
[19:21:09] <MrMobius> not for more processing than AVR
[19:21:15] <MrMobius> or if you just want something simple to play with
[19:21:38] <Lambda-Aurigae> hypermagic, I have been playing with such lately, yes.
[19:21:39] <hypermagic> did you see the atmega168pa version yet ?
[19:21:46] <hypermagic> well it is kind of new
[19:21:50] <MrMobius> Lambda-Aurigae, what do you mean about the programmer? its a $4 board with just two wires for programming
[19:21:51] <hypermagic> but low power
[19:22:28] <Lambda-Aurigae> MrMobius, aahh..see, I never got too deep in them...I did buy a couple of the $4.30 dollar boards back when to play with.
[19:22:51] <Lambda-Aurigae> considered breaking them apart but never got around to it.
[20:06:17] <[w_w]> anyone know of a few companies that make enclosures? like for electronics
[20:06:33] <Lambda-Aurigae> pactec
[20:06:39] <Lambda-Aurigae> they even do some free samples.
[20:06:58] <Lambda-Aurigae> https://www.pactecenclosures.com/
[20:32:50] <[w_w]> If I want to turn an AVR on and off with a single momentary button... how would I do that?
[20:33:04] <hypermagic> you cant
[20:33:06] <aandrew> [w_w]: polycase
[20:33:23] <aandrew> [w_w]: inexpensive, knows how to do online ordering, good datasheets online and decent support
[20:33:30] <hypermagic> well, if you mean by putting it to standby mode and resume normal operation then you can
[20:33:33] <hypermagic> use sleep modes
[20:33:38] <hypermagic> and wakeup interrupt
[20:34:15] <hypermagic> [w_w], will a few microampers count as off to you ?
[20:35:32] <hypermagic> [w_w], if you want totally off mode hten use a switch ...
[20:35:50] <hypermagic> or pull the plug
[20:38:14] <hypermagic> aczid,
https://www.flickr.com/photos/travisgoodspeed/5242553766/ :)
[20:38:25] <hypermagic> real men use pink pagers ;)
[20:43:30] <Lambda-Aurigae> [w_w], all depends. There are some simple circuits that can do the power on/power off thing with a push button...or you could do it with a little code magic and deep sleep mode.
[20:44:17] <Lambda-Aurigae> most of your press on press off circuits draw some power no matter what.
[20:47:22] <[w_w]> what if the button provides power to the MCU, that then does some magic to bypass power and keep itself running.
[20:47:57] <hypermagic> Lambda-Aurigae, you like this? :)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Hammer_Ace_SATCOM_Antenna.jpg
[20:48:32] <Lambda-Aurigae> looks like the first stage of a death ray to me!
[20:48:50] <hypermagic> [w_w], you really dont need to turn off the mcu, read an atmega168pa datasheet :) it consumes less than 200uA at 1MHz
[20:50:37] <Lambda-Aurigae> that's kind of an older picture too.
[20:50:39] <hypermagic> Lambda-Aurigae, this is the second stage then :)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/32/Traqueur_acquisition.JPG
[20:50:43] <Lambda-Aurigae> nobody wears green fatigues these days.
[20:51:23] <Lambda-Aurigae> notice they are for different systems too?
[20:51:37] <Lambda-Aurigae> the single is counterclockwise polarized antenna..the quad is clockwise polarized.
[20:55:20] <hypermagic> yea
[20:56:47] <hypermagic> Lambda-Aurigae,
http://www.instructables.com/id/10--WIFI-16dBi-Super-Antenna-Pictorial/
[20:56:48] <hypermagic> :)
[20:57:28] <Lambda-Aurigae> ko..off to bedzies.
[20:58:14] <hypermagic> bb
[21:02:03] <aandrew> lol I read that as pectoral and was thinking "wow that's a weird place to put an antenna"
[21:02:15] <aandrew> I guess he wants teh gainz
[21:03:05] <Lambda-Aurigae> better than an Antenna Suppository...
[21:03:09] * Lambda-Aurigae runs for bed.
[21:06:04] * Casper makes the bed run away from Lambda-Aurigae
