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[05:35:40] <EI24> Hi, which MCU is more powerful, the atmega640-2560 series or the atmega48-328 ?
[06:18:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> EI24, depends on what you mean by "more powerful"
[06:18:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> as for instructions per clock tick, they are the same
[06:19:42] <Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: you beat me with few seconds :)
[06:19:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> max clock speed, looking up now
[06:20:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> I think the 640 series is older and locked down to 16mhz.
[06:20:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> the 328 series is 20mhz
[06:20:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> but atmel site is down.
[06:20:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> so the atmega328 series would be faster.
[06:20:47] <Jartza> except the 48 V-series, which is 10MHz
[06:20:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> but the 640 series has more flash and ram.
[06:21:18] <Jartza> of course, it again depends about the application which the chip is intended to
[06:21:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> if you want something with the speed of the 328 and the memory of the 640 series there is always the 1284p series.
[06:21:33] <Jartza> and usually it boils down to peripherals
[06:21:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> the atmega1284p has 128k flash, 16k sram, and runs at 20mhz.
[06:21:59] <Jartza> hmmh, for me atmel site works
[06:22:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> and comes in a 40pin dip which the 640 series does not...640 series is only SMT, but it has more pins.
[06:22:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> odd..for some reason it's not resolving here.
[06:22:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> or,,,not routing rather.
[06:22:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> I get dns resolution but no ping or route.
[06:23:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> I get other sites, just not atmel at the moment.
[06:26:11] <Jartza> maybe their operator just sucks :)
[06:26:24] <Jartza> it's not the first time people discuss the same issue on this channel
[06:26:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah, it happens now and then.
[06:26:35] <Jartza> "atmel site is down" - "works for me" - "doesn't work here" :)
[06:26:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> xerox has some similar issues.
[06:26:59] <Jartza> and apple :P
[06:31:02] <twnqx> hm
[06:31:10] <twnqx> VCC and clamp diodes STILL confuses me
[06:31:22] <twnqx> what happens if in worst case all my clamped inputs switch on
[06:31:53] <twnqx> and i blow 128*2.4mA = 307mA @ 24V into my 5V VCC
[06:32:16] <twnqx> which is a few times my current draw
[06:33:20] <twnqx> my gut feeling says my voltage regulator will not quite like that
[06:44:05] <EI24> Lambda_Aurigae, jartza, thanks!
[08:29:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> EI24 so, which was your question anyhow?
[08:30:59] <EI24> about which mcu was more powerful m328 series or 2560 series
[08:31:19] <EI24> Lambda_Aurigae
[08:31:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah..but which part of being more powerful?
[08:31:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> speed, performance, memory?
[08:34:58] <EI24> yeah, sorry, perhaps i meant all, i didnt really think about that. Like the avr 32-bit MCU's seems certainly more powerful, so i though atmega2560 was somewhere in between
[08:35:15] <EI24> atmegga2560 series*
[08:35:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> no..
[08:35:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> atmega2560 is just a "larger" avr.
[08:35:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> meaning it has a plethora of peripherals and plenty of flash,,for an 8bit microcontroller.
[08:36:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> avr32 is a whole different line.
[08:36:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> as is the atxmega series.
[08:36:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> I think the avr32 is kinda dying...
[08:36:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> whereas the pic32 is actually growing in popularity.
[08:36:54] <EI24> why is the avr32 bit dying?
[08:37:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> never was particularly powerful for what it was and the ARM processors have pushed it out.
[08:37:18] <EI24> from the little i read about it, it seems pretty neat
[08:37:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> oh yeah...was an early adopter of the bytecode interpreter in hardware...so it could kinda run compiled java bytecode without the software side of java...
[08:40:11] <EI24> My next MCU i choose will prob be a 32-bit one. Thinking about avr, arm or pic.
[08:40:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> I like the pic32 chips.
[08:41:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> specially the pic32mx250f128b and the pic32mx270f256b
[08:41:31] <EI24> havent looked in to those, but i watched a video saying they were good, also you just mentioned it to,
[08:41:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> 128b has 128k of flash and 32k sram
[08:41:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> 256b has 256k of flash and 64k of sram
[08:41:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> either can execute code from flash and internal sram.
[08:42:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> both run at 50MHz/83DMIPS...
[08:42:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> running a 32bit MIPS RISC core.
[08:42:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> and they have hardware USB
[08:42:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> in a 28pin dip package.
[08:43:50] <EI24> nice!
[08:44:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> avr is still much nicer.
[08:44:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> but sometimes you need something with more gumption.
[08:44:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> I am building a retro-ish style computer based on the pic32mx270f256b chip recently.
[08:44:50] <EI24> Is DMA important if you want to include a gpu or fpga for graphics?
[08:45:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> well, if you have access to external memory bus, yes it is.
[08:45:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> those two chips I mentioned do not have external memory bus though.
[08:45:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> but dma is still very useful.
[08:46:00] <EI24> ah ok
[08:46:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've played with it for generating VGA output from the chip using only internal memory and DMA to push the video signal out.
[08:46:23] <EI24> do you plan to run a OS on your computer?
[08:46:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> kinda.
[08:46:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> dos-ish
[08:47:02] <EI24> ah ok nice
[08:47:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> with a C interpreter in flash and the ability to load and run native compiled software snippets in ram.
[08:48:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> played with a c-64 style full screen editor interface with a basic interpreter and all.
[08:48:01] <EI24> i want to make a handheld console someday, preferably i want to design the PCB board myself to
[08:48:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> having 64K of sram to play with I figure I can do something along the lines of an IBM-XT style kinda thing.
[08:50:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> still in major flux as I play with different technologies.
[08:50:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> also working on using one chip to play video processor with some external serial srams for the video memory...that's on it's 5th or 6th generation now.
[08:50:48] <EI24> dont have any knowledge in ibm computers at, other than from what i understand make pretty powerful chips
[08:51:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> ibm-xt used the 8088 processor waaaay back when.
[08:51:23] <EI24> ah ok
[08:51:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> came with 128K of ram.
[08:51:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> was upgradable to 640K
[08:52:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> and ran at 4.77MHz
[08:52:21] <Jartza> I'm more or less only using attinys anymore
[08:52:36] <Jartza> if I need anything more, I use arm (cortex m-series)
[08:52:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> Jartza, I have a few....I do all kinds of playing at different levels.
[08:53:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> heck, I even have some 6502 and 68000 chips that I play with once in a while.
[08:53:20] <Jartza> avrs are so expensive :)
[08:53:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> 68000 in the giant dip package.
[08:53:24] <EI24> atmel sitestill down...
[08:53:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> naaaa.
[08:53:33] <Jartza> well, site is up
[08:53:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> haven't bought an avr in 10 years.
[08:53:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> free samples rock.
[08:53:41] <Jartza> just some routing problems
[08:53:59] <Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: you can't really make selling products from free samples ;)
[08:54:04] <EI24> free samples?!
[08:54:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> well, I don't sell products.
[08:54:09] <Jartza> but yeah, for hobby it's ok
[08:54:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's for teaching and hobby.
[08:54:28] <Jartza> yeah. for that the price doesn't really matter.
[08:54:46] <Jartza> if just making few units
[08:54:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> EI24, yes..many companies provide free samples including atmel, microchip, maxim, freescale, allegro-micro, etc.
[08:55:20] <EI24> but you need to have a company then right?
[08:55:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> no.
[08:55:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> maybe fib a little for some of them.
[08:56:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> my atmel rep knows I don't have a company and that I mostly use them for teaching kids to use their microcontrollers.
[08:56:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> hmm...picmx270f256b in single quantity is $5.18 USD.
[08:56:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> not half bad pricing I suppose.
[08:56:58] <EI24> wonder why they do that
[08:57:17] <EI24> well chips are prob pretty cheap to manufacture
[08:57:31] <EI24> sending a couple wont cost much
[08:57:42] <EI24> going out a bit
[08:57:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> they give away small numbers of samples in hope that people will use their products in their project and sell them.
[08:59:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> pactec enclosures even does free samples.
[08:59:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> some companies are very liberal with them and some are stingy.
[09:06:47] <Jartza> I'm currently doing audio bootloader for attiny :)
[09:07:00] <Jartza> mainly targeted for attiny85 & 88
[09:07:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> have you made your audio modem thingie talk between two attiny chips?
[09:26:46] <Jartza> STM32F030K6T6 is like 1.4€ each in single quantity
[09:27:08] <Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: basically I've used the same protocol yes, but no need for modem in between there :)
[09:27:30] <Jartza> I mean, no use converting it to analog in between
[09:27:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> true.
[09:29:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> looks like the pic32mx270f256b beats that stm32 chip in most things I would use.
[09:29:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> specially in the fact that it is available in a through-hole package.
[09:29:37] <Jartza> for sure, I wasn't comparing it to that
[09:29:41] <Jartza> but avrs :)
[09:29:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> well, yeah.
[09:30:00] <Jartza> cheaper than attiny85
[09:30:59] <FL4SHK> Does what you're using have PWM functionality?
[09:31:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> mine does.
[09:31:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> I don't use pwm much but it's there.
[09:31:21] <FL4SHK> PWM to analog converters exist using low pass filters if you need one of those
[09:31:25] <FL4SHK> Yeah I don't use PWM much either
[09:31:34] <FL4SHK> it's more useful for something like, uh, square wave sound
[09:31:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> if you mean for his modem thingie...he doesn't need that.
[09:31:49] <FL4SHK> Yeah I thought he probably didn't
[09:31:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's a nifty little digital-audio-digital comms system.
[09:32:00] <FL4SHK> He mentioned something about converting to analog though
[09:32:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> only for going over the phone line.
[09:32:17] <FL4SHK> ah
[09:32:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> or other analog audio source.
[09:32:30] <Jartza> also freescale kinetis looks nice cortex m
[09:32:33] <Jartza> like MKL17Z256VFM4
[09:33:00] <Jartza> 256kB flash, 32kB ram and 3.5€ single
[09:33:13] <FL4SHK> That is a lot of RAM compared to all the Arduinos I have
[09:33:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> hehe.
[09:33:23] <Jartza> yeah
[09:33:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> about normal for my typical AVR chip.
[09:33:35] <Jartza> and myself I don't fancy through-holes anymore :)
[09:33:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> as I use the atmega1284p usually.
[09:33:49] <FL4SHK> Well the interesting thing is that you can use external SRAM with some AVRs
[09:33:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm teaching kids to do electronics..we use a lot of solderless breadboards.
[09:34:01] <FL4SHK> I read that you can do that with the Arduino Mega 2560
[09:34:14] <FL4SHK> Just a feature of the AVR it uses
[09:34:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> FL4SHK, yes...heck, the atmega8515 can to.
[09:34:16] <Jartza> Lambda_Aurigae: I use them too, but breakouts are cheap
[09:34:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> up to 64K of external parallel sram or memory mapped peripherals or parallel eeprom or parallel flash.
[09:34:45] <Jartza> but agreed, AVRs are very easy to use
[09:34:57] <FL4SHK> Right
[09:35:02] <Jartza> much easier than arm
[09:35:07] <Jartza> and I also like AVR, just pity the price
[09:35:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> atmega128 also has the external ram interface.
[09:35:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> Jartza, agreed.
[09:35:19] <Jartza> for example that mega1284p
[09:35:26] <FL4SHK> Can you use asynchronous RAM?
[09:35:27] <Jartza> it's way over 7€ in singles
[09:35:31] <FL4SHK> Or does it need to be synchronous?
[09:35:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> external ram interface on the atmega chips is for data only though.
[09:35:40] <FL4SHK> Right
[09:35:48] <FL4SHK> I mean it's a Harvard architecture
[09:35:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> meaningless.
[09:36:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> the 8052 is harvard too.
[09:36:08] <FL4SHK> Hm
[09:36:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> but it can map external ram into program space or into data space
[09:36:17] <Jartza> I don't see any point in using for example atmega328p anymore to anything
[09:36:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> on a 40pin dip package even.
[09:36:19] <FL4SHK> Ah, I see
[09:36:25] <Jartza> 3x the price of cortex m0
[09:36:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> harvard just means program and data are separate.
[09:36:30] <FL4SHK> I don't know how you do something like function pointers on an AVR
[09:36:34] <FL4SHK> Or jump tables
[09:36:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> not that you can't run program external.
[09:36:47] <Jartza> and less ram
[09:37:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> on the 8052 chips I play with I can even, with a bit of wiring magic, map data and program space to the same physical ram.
[09:37:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> makes for fun programming though.
[09:37:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> such can be done on most 8052 chips with external memory interface too.
[09:37:51] <FL4SHK> How do function pointers work on AVR?
[09:38:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> point to functions.
[09:38:08] <FL4SHK> Well, in assembly
[09:38:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> same as they do on anything else.
[09:38:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> some kind of indirect addressing most likely.
[09:38:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> never really looked at it.
[09:38:30] <FL4SHK> Hm
[09:38:34] <FL4SHK> Well that's one thing I was wondering about
[09:38:46] <FL4SHK> Just seems like a small weakness of Harvard architectures to me
[09:38:54] <FL4SHK> Perhaps I'm wrong
[09:38:59] <FL4SHK> sI'm probably wrong
[09:39:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's just coding magic.
[09:39:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> write something that uses it and look at the assembly output.
[09:39:26] <FL4SHK> Yes
[09:40:06] <FL4SHK> I'd like to use GCC and AVR Binutils to program my Arduino Mega
[09:40:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> so do it.
[09:40:39] <FL4SHK> I need to look into a few things
[09:41:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> drop all the ardweeny libs.
[09:41:13] <FL4SHK> That's fine
[09:42:35] <FL4SHK> I don't know how I would interface with shields if I were to do that
[09:42:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> look at pinouts, write program to work.
[09:43:04] <FL4SHK> Right
[09:43:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> arduino physical pinouts compared to the actual ports on the chip are kinda funky.
[09:43:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> and the arduino wiring libs and such are sooooo overblown.
[09:43:47] <FL4SHK> I know how to use PORT stuff
[09:45:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> the shields have nothing arduino specific on them...I would be there are regular avr libraries or code examples out there to use all the hardware you might ever find on a shield.
[10:04:02] <RikusW> FL4SHK: you use icall or ijmp for function pointers
[10:04:12] <FL4SHK> Cool
[10:04:21] <RikusW> just remember avr use word addressing
[10:04:42] <FL4SHK> I need to review the AVR instruction set
[10:04:50] <RikusW> so if you have the byte address divide by 2
[10:04:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> word addressing for instructions...byte addressing for data in flash.
[10:06:00] <RikusW> you can read flash as data using LPM and store using SPM
[10:06:14] <RikusW> though SPM only works on an entire page of flash
[10:06:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> SPM is kinda funky to use though.
[10:06:23] <RikusW> (128 or so bytes)
[10:06:28] <RikusW> indeed
[10:06:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> it can only be run from within boot memory section on many chips as I recall.
[10:07:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> or am I thinking of something else?
[10:07:37] <Fleck> South Park Mexican? :D
[10:07:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> dang, it's been a long time since I did that kinda work.
[10:07:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> Store Program Memory
[10:08:08] <RikusW> iirc SPM only works from withing the boot section of flash yes
[10:09:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've spent too much time studying pic32 lately.
[10:09:16] <FL4SHK> Can't that kill the flash if you do that too much?
[10:09:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> that and xerox EIP programming.
[10:09:22] <RikusW> since making my own bootloader I don't really have any desire to mess with SPM...
[10:09:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> FL4SHK, yes...SPM is used mainly for bootloaders.
[10:09:49] <RikusW> FL4SHK: AVR got 10000 or so reflashing cycles
[10:09:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> LPM is used for reading data stored in flash.
[10:09:54] <FL4SHK> heh
[10:10:06] <FL4SHK> Would be nice if you could have external memory for instructions >_>
[10:10:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup.
[10:10:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> hence my occasional use of 8052.
[10:10:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> and relatively new use of pic32.
[10:10:32] <FL4SHK> I'm far more used to Von Neumann architectures
[10:10:45] <RikusW> mega128 mega162 does have the ability to use external data ram
[10:10:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> on pic32 chips you can section out parts of ram to be executable.
[10:10:52] <FL4SHK> Yes
[10:10:57] <FL4SHK> External data RAM is good
[10:11:16] <FL4SHK> That's part of the reason I want to try generating a composite video signal with my Arduino Mega 2560
[10:11:20] <RikusW> the obsolete fpga avr hybrid chips did have external code memory afaik
[10:11:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> they did.
[10:11:29] <RikusW> (or it could be made to have it)
[10:11:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have a few of them.
[10:11:33] <FL4SHK> Since I could store graphics and stuff in the external RAM
[10:12:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> the program for building stuff for the fpga wasn't free though....there was a free trial and it expired YEARS ago for me.
[10:12:06] <RikusW> Lambda_Aurigae: as far as I could see the docs were available on request only ?
[10:12:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup.
[10:12:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> I had the docs and software trial and all.
[10:12:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> never did learn how to program vhdl though so it was kinda useless to me in the end.
[10:12:41] <RikusW> and the sw was fairly expensive ?
[10:12:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> was going to try but got caught up in too many things.
[10:12:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> yes.
[10:12:54] <RikusW> too bad :/
[10:13:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> it was a 60 or 90 day trial or something then you had to pay for it.
[10:13:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> and it wasn't worth it to me.
[10:13:12] <RikusW> seems like fpga+avr is dead by now ?.
[10:13:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> yes.
[10:13:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> no longer produced.
[10:13:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> at40k or something like that.
[10:14:19] <RikusW> I suspect those might have been used in the avr emulators ?
[10:14:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> dunno.
[10:15:26] <RikusW> Considering the price I don't think many people bought the actual avr ices...
[10:15:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> if only atmel would make an avr with hardware usb in a dip package I could drop my use of pic chips almost completely.
[10:15:54] <RikusW> put atmega32u2 on breakout ?
[10:16:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> but I can't order that as a sample!
[10:16:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> and would have to solder them on or buy them that way.
[10:17:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> the pic chips I'm using can even sync the onboard RC oscillator system to the USB clock so no external crystal needed.
[10:17:51] <RikusW> nice !
[10:18:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> kinda like they do with v-usb on the attiny45/85
[10:18:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> only a lot more stable and full speed usb.
[10:19:13] <RikusW> m32u2 is full speed, though in practice I only got 70kbytes/s or so
[10:19:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah.
[10:19:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> this pic I'm using is a 50MHz 32bit processor in a 28pin dip package too.
[10:19:43] <RikusW> flushing byte by byte goes down to 1kb/s....
[10:19:50] <ferdna> so today is saturday
[10:19:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> hehe..typical for any usb that is.
[10:19:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> ferdna, it is.
[10:20:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> it is also ancient movie day.
[10:20:16] <RikusW> probably due to the 1000Hz usb polling
[10:20:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> watching The Quiet Earth from 1985
[10:21:08] <ferdna> Lambda_Aurigae, movie day?
[10:21:10] <ferdna> what do you mean
[10:21:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> means I'm watching old movies.
[10:21:17] <ferdna> lol... pizza & movies
[10:21:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> just movies.
[10:21:26] <FL4SHK> Can someone tell me if there's a way to go without the Arduino IDE but still use the default bootloader?
[10:21:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> FL4SHK, there is a way, yes.
[10:21:40] <ferdna> FL4SHK, yes
[10:21:43] <ferdna> eclipse
[10:21:46] <RikusW> FL4SHK: use avrdude
[10:21:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> avrdude
[10:21:51] <LeoNerd> FL4SHK: avrdude -c arduino ...
[10:22:18] <FL4SHK> Cool, thanks.
[10:22:20] <LeoNerd> I hate those options on avrdude.. -c is the type of Programmer, and -p is the type of Chip
[10:22:22] <LeoNerd> WHAAAA?
[10:22:23] <RikusW> FL4SHK: the Arduino gui does in fact use avrdude..
[10:22:37] <FL4SHK> I was pretty sure that was the case but I didn't know how to do it :V
[10:22:43] <FL4SHK> I've used avrdude with DFU mode
[10:22:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> FL4SHK, there's always google.
[10:23:05] <FL4SHK> ...I think I did try that but didn't find anything
[10:23:15] <LeoNerd> Also, you don't need to use the crazy GUI thing even if you want to use the Arduino libraries; there's a thing called inotool
[10:23:23] <FL4SHK> Oh cool I didn't know this
[10:23:25] <LeoNerd> I'm using that to get USB HID on a 32U4, because I'm lazy and in a hurry
[10:23:30] <LeoNerd> (otherwise I'd be using LUFA)
[10:23:43] <FL4SHK> I don't use the GUI for editing files. I use Vim for that.
[10:23:54] <LeoNerd> Excellent choice :)
[10:24:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> bah...nobody used edlin or ed anymore!
[10:24:22] <FL4SHK> I wanted to try learning a little of ed
[10:24:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> we were using that looong before vi came around.
[10:25:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> on machines with teletypes for i/o rather than CRT and keyboard.
[10:25:04] <FL4SHK> I've used vi before also
[10:25:06] <FL4SHK> I prefer Vim to it :V
[10:25:17] <FL4SHK> Vim really lives up to its name
[10:25:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> vim has a few fancies to it, yes.
[10:25:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> for those who have to have the gui world there is also gvim
[10:25:48] <FL4SHK> I don't use gvim that much honestly
[10:25:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> me either.
[10:26:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> I go with kate or gedit or even mouseedit.
[10:26:16] <FL4SHK> I use Vim from a terminal emulator most of the time, actually
[10:26:25] <FL4SHK> I really like my .vimrc :P
[10:26:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> but do a lot of work on older machines without gui.
[10:26:41] <FL4SHK> I use vim on my SSH server occassionally
[10:27:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> just redid a bunch of old p-3 laptops with debian console only.
[10:27:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> someone gave me 20 of them.
[10:27:42] <FL4SHK> wow
[10:27:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> so should have plenty of machines for the kids to use this summer.
[10:28:01] <FL4SHK> lol, please make them use Vim
[10:28:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> 10GB harddrives and 1GB of ram.
[10:28:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> they have vi and vim on them.
[10:28:22] <FL4SHK> That's more RAM than you need more most things, honestly
[10:28:27] <Lambda_Aurigae> and pico if someone wants to play with that.
[10:28:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> of course it is.
[10:28:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> but that's what they have.
[10:28:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> these things were decked out.
[10:28:40] <FL4SHK> 10 GB hard drive is... eh
[10:28:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> they even have video in and out ports along with serial and parallel and built in modems.
[10:29:08] <FL4SHK> Oh gosh, video in?
[10:29:13] <FL4SHK> That's a rarity even today
[10:29:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup.
[10:29:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> gateway p-3 units.
[10:30:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> even got 5 docking bays with them.
[10:30:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> with PCI slots in the docking bays!
[10:30:48] <FL4SHK> I really like Vim's window things
[10:30:54] <FL4SHK> I use those all the time in larger projects
[10:31:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> hehe.
[10:31:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> I like linux multiple consoles.
[10:31:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> alt-f1 through alt-f6 or so...you can go all the way to f12 if you don't have a gui running.
[10:31:55] <FL4SHK> Try alt and an arrow key some time
[10:32:00] <FL4SHK> That might be easier to hit
[10:32:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup.
[10:32:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> that works too.
[10:38:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> "The Quiet Earth" is actually based the one experience of an American tourist in New Zealand in the 1970s. New Zealanders always take the weekends off and sleep late. The tourist arrived in the center of Auckland on a Sunday morning and found it completely deserted. He later said he felt like the last man on Earth.
[15:11:48] <ferdna> so, yes.
[16:18:18] <Duality> https://youtu.be/1FGJX2Qq5b0
[16:18:25] <Duality> how awesome ! :)
[17:05:53] <LeoNerd> I hope I didn't just invent the entire concept, but I might have invented the name of "nop-stuffing", or maybe "nop-threading". I'm not quite sure what I'll call it yet
[17:06:06] <LeoNerd> But the idea is the following: I want to drive WS2812 LEDs while reading DMX.
[17:06:50] <LeoNerd> Annoyingly, WS2812 has crazy-precise timing requirements on async serial, meaning I have to turn off interrupts. But if I do that, I lose the UART interrupt to tell me about incoming DMX data
[17:07:26] <LeoNerd> Since the WS2812 driver is NOP-based for timing, I have long regions of ~8 or so NOPs in a row, for every single bit I write out. I'm wondering if I can manage to thread into those NOPs some code to manage the UART while the interrupts are off
[17:08:04] <LeoNerd> Because it's either this or I'll have to offload the WS2812s onto a different IO chip I can drive using SPI
[17:08:07] <LeoNerd> And that just moves the problem really :(
[18:43:56] <Xark> 8 instructions seems just enough to put a UART byte into a queue (with some careful coding).
[18:44:31] <Xark> You may need to use GPIOR1-3 for storage (1 cycle vs 2 for SRAM). etc.
[18:46:11] * Xark notes you may be able to re-enable interrupts at points in the protocol that aren't typing sensitive too.
[18:46:18] <Xark> timing*
[20:13:01] <Tekkkz> hello
[23:56:42] <rue_shop3> hi