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[07:10:22] <LeoNerd> Huh... nRF24L01 radios. They're tuneable to 2400 MHz + (100 MHz * RF_CHANNEL); the latter being a register you can set from 0 to 125. That takes it anywhere from 2400 to 2525 MHz.
[07:10:33] <LeoNerd> But the "2.4GHz ISM" band only goes up to 2485.
[07:13:38] <LeoNerd> So I wonder what's up above that
[07:29:21] <Ad0> Subject to local acceptance
[07:29:59] <Ad0> :)
[11:47:49] <mark4> moved a project directory out of the place where atmel studio created it to a flash card. opened that project from there and tried to build
[11:47:59] <mark4> im now getting errors about lo8 and the like not being defined
[11:48:02] <mark4> wtf over
[11:48:10] <mark4> where is lo8 hi8 etc defined?
[11:49:01] <vsync_> so how's the lawsuit
[11:49:05] <vsync_> wait, legal action
[11:49:51] <mark4> fine ty
[11:49:56] <mark4> where is lo8 defined?
[11:50:35] <vsync_> it's defined in the passenger seat where you hide your illegal firearms and kush
[11:50:51] <mark4> ok you just made my perm ignore
[11:51:06] <vsync_> dayumn, but the law protects you against opening the windows so the nice mr. police officer can't smell your kush
[11:51:09] <mark4> if theres anyone here with a brain
[11:51:25] <vsync_> because it's totally okay to drive, high as a kite, or drunk. After all, driving is a right, wasn't it so?
[11:51:49] <vsync_> even a 10 year old is ENTITLED to drive is one so wishes, who the fuck needs license, or even registration for that matter
[11:52:11] <vsync_> better yet, he can pop a few doobies and he's still entitled to drive. Acid is better, though.
[11:52:40] <vsync_> this is constitutional
[11:53:56] <vsync_> you should totally help this fucking nutcase "mark4"
[11:55:19] <vsync_> the real crux is, when there's a truck driver, tripping on acid, possessing illegal firearms and tailgating you, and you're tripping on acid too, also with illegal firearms
[11:55:54] <vsync_> now, neither of you have to open your windows, or have license, or registration
[11:57:00] <vsync_> in this case, the constitution is highly susceptible to interpretation
[12:03:04] <mark4> i deleted the project files (not the sources) and created a new project and added the files
[12:03:14] <mark4> im now getting unknown mcu atxmega256a3bu
[12:09:50] <mark4> well i just fuked myself, now i cant build this at all. some fucked up difference in what ever version of GCC/GAS this is defaulting to and what ever i had it set to before
[12:10:36] <mark4> probably going to have to spend the next couple of hours figuring all that shit out again
[15:20:35] <Jordan_U> For dedicated SPI on avr chips, is a pin labeled "MOSI" always MOSI, wheather the chip is the master or the slave? In other words, is the same pin an output when the avr chip is configured as an SPI master and as an input when the avr chip is configued as a slave?
[15:27:27] <gjm> Jordan_U: It's DI and DO, not MOSI and MISO
[15:29:59] <gjm> for USI
[15:40:52] <malinus> Jordan_U: yes
[15:41:07] <Jordan_U> gjm: I'm connecting an SD card to the same pins used for programming the chip (because this is an addition that was not planned when we layed out the board). In the datasheet for the ATMega64M1 these are labeled MISO and MOSI. I'm not sure what the signifigance of other names is, or how that relates to my question.
[15:41:14] <Jordan_U> malinus: Thanks.
[15:41:51] <malinus> Jordan_U: you just need to connect MOSI<->MISO, no matter which device is what.
[15:43:46] <Jordan_U> malinus: Whoever came up with that convention was a smart person. It makes life simple (for me at least) :)
[15:56:00] <timemage> Jordan_U, you can have the opposite feeling when dealing with FXS vs FXO
[15:56:49] <malinus> Jordan_U: no, just look at the names in spi
[15:56:54] <malinus> each thing has 4 names
[15:57:48] <malinus> sometimes, people even make up their own names
[15:58:29] <timemage> like, fred and susan.
[15:59:15] <malinus> Jordan_U: MOSI, SIMO,DO, DOUT, SI, MTSR.
[15:59:31] <malinus> every retard out their makes their own name
[16:00:51] <timemage> malinus, probably of those just come out of old shift register pin names.
[16:01:41] <malinus> timemage: how would you explain all the names for SS then?
[16:02:05] <timemage> malinus, you mean like chip enable?
[16:04:37] <malinus> no, that one is understandable
[16:07:08] <timemage> malinus, in the 595 datasheet (for example), it says "serial data input", but i suspect may have been "data select". anyway, the point was just that it may come out of older more specific terminology. the situation isn't all that different in mathematics.
[16:07:50] <timemage> malinus, actually, i'm looking at the wrong ting.
[16:08:11] <malinus> no, it's even worse. I wish mathematics had a nice programming-like (doesn't even matter which language, just so it's consistent!) syntax
[16:13:51] <timemage> malinus, nevermind, they named the others SHCP, STCP. if you look at the datasheet you'll see why. another factor may just be how companies liked the sue the hell out of each other for copying things, including naming conventions. we had a conversation here or maybe #arduino recently about the 8080 and z80. these are binary compatible but not assembly compatible. as in, you can't feed in intel assembly mnemonics into an zilog assembler.
[16:13:52] <timemage> maybe that was motivated by idea their mnemonics were better; i don't it. more likely lawyers told them to do it.
[16:15:31] <malinus> haha oh I didn't know that one
[16:15:38] <malinus> damn lawyers
[16:21:31] <LeoNerd> Ohman. my latest OSHpark boards have arrived, and they seem to have given me through-hole plated mounting holes
[16:22:33] <timemage> LeoNerd, that' better than the other way around. iirc, with kicad you have to be careful about that. it produces two drill files.
[16:23:02] <timemage> LeoNerd, they way i've /dealt/ with that in the past is: screw it, let have plated mount holes.
[16:23:18] <aandrew> I like plated mount holes
[16:25:12] <LeoNerd> timemage: Well I don't mind in this particular case since it goes through a grounding pour on both sides.. but I wonder what would happen if one side was a power pour instead
[16:25:25] <LeoNerd> And yes, KiCad for me
[16:26:15] <timemage> LeoNerd, and not a problem with boards i've produced. but then, i knew that was going to happen.
[16:26:40] <LeoNerd> Ahhh. oops, that seems to have been my mistake. in part
[16:26:51] <LeoNerd> "mounting hole" defaults to a TTH, you have to change it to "NPTH"
[16:27:47] <timemage> LeoNerd, yes, but when you do that, make sure to pick up the -npth drill file. otherwise you'll end up with no mount holes.
[16:28:11] <LeoNerd> I merge them anyway, that's what oshpark needs
[16:28:15] <timemage> LeoNerd, i haven't bothered merging them or doing whatever is proper. i've just done as i said above. there is a proper procedure though.
[16:28:16] <LeoNerd> They use the copper margin to detect
[16:28:36] <timemage> LeoNerd, your boards are likely a lot more complicated than what i've had them make.
[16:28:54] <LeoNerd> Heh.. I doubt it ;)
[16:29:13] <LeoNerd> My most complex so far has an ATtiny841, a 74'595 to drive LEDs, and.. er.. a bunch of leds and buttons. That's basically it
[16:29:17] <timemage> LeoNerd, well, i haven't had any need for copper pours on oshpark orders for example.
[16:29:22] <LeoNerd> That said, that board doesn't yet work ;)
[16:29:35] <LeoNerd> Eh.. I just like to do a grounding pour
[16:29:41] <timemage> LeoNerd, i think my largest board was 40 by 80mm. nothing clocked higher than i2c on it.
[16:31:12] <timemage> LeoNerd, btw, finally got version of kicad loaded onto another machine that has the interactive routing stuff. very nice.
[16:31:38] <LeoNerd> Ah the push-and-shove?
[16:31:45] <timemage> LeoNerd, and the other modes, yeah.
[16:44:28] <markm_> think i have to permanantly uninstall this atmel stupid ide bullshit
[16:44:41] <markm_> and revert to using pure linux tools, just for the sake of sanity
[16:44:42] <markm_> but
[16:45:03] <markm_> im not sure how to debug asm code from linux using the avr dragon.
[16:45:07] <markm_> not even sure if its possible
[16:53:56] <timemage> markm_, the few times i've used the avr dragon as a debugger, i found that it behaved much better under the atmel software than the tools i was using under linux (avrice, i think).
[16:55:03] <markm_> i think the atmel tools are out, its far FAR too much of a pain in the ass getting my sources to reliably compile under their tools. also, having to disable all my security and privacy just to download a bug fixed version of their compiler absolutely disqualifies them
[16:55:34] <timemage> markm_, it is possible. you may find avr-gdb or avarice don't understand the full set of mcus. but it does work. sometimes i'd find the tools lock up. at one point i was having trouble getting disassembly to work in the debugger.
[16:55:50] <markm_> the fact that they are using a microsoft IDE bloatware is also against them
[16:55:56] <markm_> its FUCKING HORRENDOUSLY BAD
[16:56:30] <markm_> i moved a project directory and... suddenly got compile errors
[16:57:13] <markm_> want to browse some sources for "how to do this" so launch ide, wait 3 minutes for that. create new project, wait 3 minutes for that to open a selection window. click on the example project, wait 3 minutes.. . ..
[16:57:13] <timemage> markm_, =). well, i think theer's more going on that just that. because atmel's studio ide is a whole hell of a lot slower than visual studio for c++, or c#.
[16:57:32] <markm_> timemage, yup. they told me they are updating it
[16:57:46] <markm_> i dont give a crap if they make it as fast as my sublime text
[16:57:58] <timemage> markm_, to some degree the same is true with respect to code composer studio and eclipse.
[16:57:59] <markm_> its a mountain of a solution for a molehill of a problem
[16:58:19] <markm_> well i hate eclipse and ccs equally (ccs is eclipse)
[16:59:23] <markm_> eclipse is worse than microsofts ide, orders of magnitude worse. but that doesnt make m$s ide good
[16:59:31] <markm_> i really dont want an ide
[16:59:40] <Tom_itx> eclipse doesn't work
[16:59:50] <Tom_itx> unless you like rebooting alot
[16:59:53] <timemage> markm_, when windows ce first came out, a lot of us were running harddrives that were like a few gigs in size. i remember someone asking me something like "windows ce is supposed to be an embedded os right?", and i said something like, "well, yeah for some definition of 'embedded'". so, they said "why the hell does the sdk come on *three* CDs?"
[16:59:53] <markm_> right now i NEED one to get over the hump of getting my project running on its own
[17:00:08] <markm_> once my project runs i have zero need for anything other than a serial connection to the target
[17:00:22] <markm_> theres my debug and programming interface right there. 100% of it
[17:01:13] <markm_> timemage, the problem with the hardware/software gap is that every time hardware creates a hole (improves in speed/size) software fills it
[17:01:27] <markm_> hardware engineers get better and better at making things bigger(smaller) and faster
[17:01:38] <markm_> bigger logically, smaller physically
[17:01:53] <markm_> software engineers are a ll "fuckit ill fill that hole"
[17:02:03] <markm_> software developers are a lazy bunch
[17:03:47] <markm_> there is no reason for me to need a 2t drive on my desktop, 200g should be MORE than enough
[17:04:57] <markm_> well. data being a different story obviously
[17:05:21] <LeoNerd> Mmm.. moment of truth time.. I'm about to test out my 50mil AVR ISP6 pogo pins
[17:05:57] <markm_> got a photo of that?
[17:06:03] <markm_> before you smoke it? :)
[17:06:16] <timemage> LeoNerd, i take i you just made pads .
[17:09:43] <LeoNerd> Yup
[17:10:27] <LeoNerd> Hrm.. ofcourse I did forget to blind-drill any antiskate holes
[17:10:31] <LeoNerd> I should maybe do that now
[17:10:42] <timemage> LeoNerd, thought about doing that when i got some pogo pins for making a nexus 7 dock. never tried though.
[17:11:04] <LeoNerd> This is a 50mil pitch one. It's tiiiiiny
[17:11:14] <LeoNerd> I've also been supersuperjammie and put it underneath the SOIC14 ATtiny
[17:11:38] <LeoNerd> https://twitter.com/cpan_pevans/status/578180673879580672
[17:12:20] <timemage> LeoNerd, heh. i think i remember when you got those. around the same time i got a surface mount adapter and one and solder it. haven't don much of anything with it though. sometime in the last two weeks i did the same for the 1634 or whatever the other was that come out around the same time.
[17:12:43] <zerowidth> LeoNerd: heh, do you use a tiny pogo-pin setup to program that, then?
[17:14:01] <LeoNerd> zerowidth:
https://www.tindie.com/products/madworm/tiny-avr-isp-pogo-pin-programmig-adapter/?pt=full_prod_search one of these
[17:14:02] <LeoNerd> Yup
[17:14:13] <zerowidth> ohh nice, so tiny!
[17:14:17] <zerowidth> i have the "regular" size ones, heh
[17:14:28] <LeoNerd> 100mil? That's loooads
[17:14:38] <LeoNerd> You could drive a bus through that
[17:14:42] <LeoNerd> ((pardon the pun))
[17:14:58] <zerowidth> hah, nice, you wired up an NRF board to an attiny84
[17:15:04] <zerowidth> that's precisely what i'm about to do myself
[17:15:12] <LeoNerd> I'll likely be selling some of these soon
[17:15:16] <zerowidth> i need a lower-height connection though, so stacking them directly like that won't help me
[17:15:37] <zerowidth> well, i mean, unless i want to buy a different enclosure, and i'm rather enamored of these tiny ones
[17:15:44] <zerowidth> 3mm clearance below a PCB, 6mm above
[17:18:35] <zerowidth> LeoNerd: and oh man, if you're doing any SMT soldering at all, you *must* get a hot air station
[17:19:09] <LeoNerd> I have been thinking it
[17:19:24] <LeoNerd> But then I'd have to go and get myself a reflow toaster... and then do all my boards with solderpaste masks...
[17:19:34] <LeoNerd> And -then- where would I be? :P
[17:19:46] <zerowidth> nah nah, i mean, you *could*
[17:20:08] <zerowidth> but i got my hot air thing for <$100 on amazon. it's a knock-off, but seems to work fine so far
[17:21:20] <markm_> thats some neat soldering skills you got there
[17:21:22] <LeoNerd> Ohsure, I just mean more that I have a habit of running away with these things
[17:21:31] <zerowidth> doing some SMT with an iron is great, but once you try hot air you'll kick yourself for making it so difficult
[17:22:13] <LeoNerd> markm_: Practice. :) I've been soldering since I was 8. I'm now 32.
[17:22:17] <LeoNerd> That's 3/4 of my life
[17:22:18] <zerowidth> my first (only, lol) pcb build with an attiny84, i put the chip on backward... and it took about 30 seconds to flip around the other way.
[17:26:00] <zerowidth> LeoNerd: are you using your own lib for the NRF stuff, or one of the RF* clones?
[17:26:04] <zerowidth> with arduino
[17:26:17] <markm_> time to go home
[17:31:26] <LeoNerd> All my code
[17:31:48] <LeoNerd> I've got quite a few projects in mind for it, so it'll pay off to develop one good set of things
[17:37:23] <aandrew> LeoNerd: interesting design with the missing copper forming a "fork" to help hold the pin in place
[17:37:51] <xrlk> what uses does my floppy drive have now
[17:38:12] <xrlk> I was thinking of just recycling the stepper motor
[17:38:17] <aandrew> zerowidth: I never liked air
[17:38:30] <aandrew> like LeoNerd I've been doing this for over 3/4 of my life
[17:50:06] <LeoNerd> Oopsie
[17:50:11] <LeoNerd> I think I let the magic smoke out