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[02:42:21] <malinus> I guess some ops should see these DCC requests I've got from this channel
http://hastebin.com/qutuyevaca.vhdl
[02:45:25] <vsync_> sorry. was me.
[02:45:45] <malinus> pfpfpf
[03:04:12] <specing> LoRez: ^
[03:16:22] <mark4> Received a malformed DCC request from kaneeni.
[03:33:34] <megal0maniac> mark4: Me too
[03:33:44] <megal0maniac> And then Tetris-
[04:00:13] <mark4> its lame
[04:00:38] <mark4> trying to infect poor unsuspecting coders!
[04:01:20] <mark4> well im building now. but i have issues with these tools. the list file only contains .text. it does not contain any other section. MORONS.
[04:03:55] <mark4> is there a way to make the listing file NOT interleave listing with source?
[04:04:20] <mark4> and to contain the listing from EVERY section maybe?
[04:04:36] <mark4> half assed listing file is useless
[04:05:53] <mark4> i need to cross reference code and the data its referencing (in rom)
[04:06:04] <mark4> but its not shown in the listing file
[11:15:26] <aczid> lol #avr users sent met startkeylogger in DCC last night. come on guys that was 10+ years ago lol
[11:16:30] <aczid> think I should file a police report? :P
[11:22:20] <Fleck> and add 10year old date? :D
[11:23:45] <Rickta59> maybe someone just recovered a disk and that was there
[11:24:06] <aczid> it was two different users 3 hours apart
[11:59:28] <dufa> There seems to that going around, I've gotten a total of 7 time from #avr and ##fpga
[12:00:32] <aandrew> if you can grab that file he's sending, I have a friend who wants to analyze it
[12:00:34] <aandrew> I keep missing it
[12:03:28] <dufa> I wasn't really even aware that there is a way to send files over irc someone tried to send startkeylogger to me...
[12:37:15] <aczid> the file is 0 bytes :)
[12:38:02] <aczid> it's not the file that is exploiting anything, but the filename string used to be triggered by overzealous AV software
[12:38:12] <aczid> er,, used to trigger*
[14:20:31] <Flipp__> question about avr-gcc linking: why is it that if I have the definition "void (*start_main_prog) (void) = 0x00000" and call start_main_prog() from inside the bootloader's main()
[14:21:08] <Flipp__> it does: lds r30, 0x0200 ... then lds r31, 0x0201 ... then eicall
[14:21:55] <Flipp__> ?
[14:22:49] <Flipp__> why does it not jump directly to 0x0? looks like instead it jumps to somewhere super high in memory (that doesn't exist)
[14:26:02] <N1njaneer> Bootloader?
[14:26:09] <N1njaneer> Usually is at top of memory
[14:27:04] <mark4_> i assume its set the EIND register too?
[14:27:13] <mark4_> or the eicall could go anywhere
[14:58:31] <Flipp__> yeah, according to the avr assembly docs I believe r30 and r31 are the low and high bits of EIND
[14:59:02] <Flipp__> n1njaneer: yeah, the bootloader starts at 0x3e000, and I'm trying to get it to jump to the main program at 0x0 by using a function call
[15:01:21] <Tekkkz> hi, i recently owned the adafruits atmega32u4 breakout board, anyone knows it? i need some help
[15:01:29] <Flipp__> what's weird is that the map that's produced has a .data section *after* the .finiN sections... at 0x00800200 O.O
[15:03:08] <Tekkkz> So how does the boot led works, when is it blinking/when not?
[15:38:45] <Flipp__> mark4_: ah. I think I might be onto something. on a 2560, it looks like the linker doesn't correctly clear EIND. it only sets half of the address
[15:39:27] <mark4_> clearing EIND would restrict you to the lower 64k
[15:39:40] <mark4_> is this inside an interrupt btw?
[15:40:27] <mark4_> usually an interrupt that uses indirect (read/write or call) would need to save the EIND/ RAMPZ register (which ever was being used)
[15:40:42] <mark4_> rampz is for LPM?SPM and EIND is for eijmp/eicall
[15:41:04] <mark4_> just got the ubertooth i made my boss buy me working :)
[15:41:33] <Flipp__> mark4_: I'm in >128k at the moment, in the bootloader @ 0x3E184
[15:41:59] <mark4_> then is the boot code jumping to somewhere in the application area?
[15:42:05] <Flipp__> mark4_: just tryin' to jump to 0x0 via a function call
[15:42:06] <Flipp__> yup
[15:42:09] <mark4_> if not they it is going to need to aset EIND
[15:42:12] <mark4_> otherwise clear it
[15:42:29] <mark4_> set meaning set it to some value to reference the upper 64k :)
[15:42:40] <mark4_> oh crap. does that make EIND a segment register? !!!
[15:42:42] <mark4_> lol
[15:43:00] <mark4_> avrs have segmented memory /cry !
[15:43:18] <RikusW> only mega256
[15:43:43] <RikusW> since it is 128kwords
[15:43:56] <RikusW> m128 is 64kw fitting in 16 bits
[15:44:21] <mark4_> i have an xmega256a3bu here :)
[15:44:31] <mark4_> rikus btw i got my code building
[15:44:45] <RikusW> what was the problem ?
[15:45:00] <mark4_> all i had to do was TOTALLY UNINSTALL EVERYTHING AVR, then go through the hard drive and rm -rf every single avr related directorhy (saving my sources of course)
[15:45:31] <mark4_> then reinstall and last but not least, add a profile or what ever they call it for using the winavr build tools not the native tools
[15:45:36] <mark4_> native meaning atmels tools
[15:45:49] <RikusW> ah
[15:45:51] <mark4_> it took me till 3am last night to get it buiding under winavr
[15:46:01] <mark4_> and another hour or 2 fixing all the build safus
[15:46:37] <mark4_> today ive been going through what i have and fixing code snafus as i comment the almost totally uncommented code
[15:46:50] <RikusW> something tells me you don't particularly like Atmel right now...
[15:46:53] <mark4_> there are a few but i wasnt worried about functionality yet
[15:46:58] <mark4_> no i really do
[15:47:14] <mark4_> its just their tools that annoy me. i feel the same way about arm and atmels tools are way better than arms tools
[15:47:41] <mark4_> $10,000 for an assembler you have to tell where the end of a file is
[15:47:42] <mark4_> rite
[15:47:55] <RikusW> heh
[15:48:07] <mark4_> [end] <-- if it isnt there it gets confused
[15:48:14] * RikusW will pirate said overpriced assmebler
[15:48:21] <mark4_> dont bother
[15:48:28] <mark4_> the macros in it are pure garbage
[15:49:08] <mark4_> my counted string macro i was having problems with is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE with arms assembler
[15:49:29] <mark4_> i.e. lay a byte down at this address that has a value equal to the delta from this address to the end of the following string.
[15:49:50] <mark4_> error = attempting to calculate a value in pass 1 thats not available till pass 4
[15:49:55] <mark4_> or some dumb shit like that
[15:50:23] <mark4_> multi pass assembly is moronic.
[15:50:40] <mark4_> my complete assembler and compiler are 1 pass.
[15:51:06] <RikusW> how do you handle forward jumps ?
[15:51:46] <mark4_> save address to stack... jump to address 0.... when target is resolved back fill
[15:52:21] <mark4_> thats how its done with if/else/then and the various looping constructs, thats how its done in the assembler
[15:52:57] <mark4_> full macro assembly using forth as the macro language, local labels (global local labels so you can jump to local 0 both forward and backwards of current definition)
[15:53:19] <mark4_> thats "compile a jump to address 0" not "jump to address 0" lol
[15:53:42] <RikusW> assumed so
[15:54:16] <mark4_> im basically sitting here watching a spectrum analysys display of the complete wifi/bluetooth spectrum using my shiny new ubertooth i made my boss buy me, writing my OWN code on his dime
[15:54:22] <RikusW> and if the forward jump needs the bigger 4 byte jump instead of 2 byte ?
[15:54:25] <mark4_> waiting for the raspberry pi 2's to arrive lol
[15:55:00] <RikusW> then you'd need to move all instructions.. ?
[15:55:02] <mark4_> rjmp and rcall are 32 bit opcodes.
[15:55:18] <mark4_> if you need further than that you use ijmp i see no conflict
[15:55:59] <mark4_> where that situateion doesnt exist i limit branches to local labels to short jumps and assume everything else is a long jump unless told otherwise
[15:56:02] <RikusW> rjmp is 16 bit
[15:56:06] <RikusW> jmp is 32 bit
[15:56:10] <mark4_> erm yes that what i meant
[15:56:19] <mark4_> jmp and call are 32 bit, rjump rcall are 16 bits
[15:56:26] <mark4_> the address is encoded in the opcode
[15:56:50] <mark4_> with a jmp to 0 my back patch just needs to determine what the opcoide is to decide how to resolve the branch
[15:56:56] <RikusW> so you do a separate pass to output the binary ?
[15:57:12] <mark4_> the save operation is the final operation
[15:57:20] <mark4_> tho the save might be "send this to the target"
[15:57:43] <mark4_> in the case of my xmega forth the target IS the compiler so the final operation is "Write this to flash"?
[15:57:54] <RikusW> ah
[15:58:10] <mark4_> compiles will be buffered in shadow ram and only written to flash on completion of the definition or a fill of the buffer
[15:58:30] <mark4_> actually no. a fill of the buffer i thinbk should be an error
[15:58:44] <RikusW> and if you assumed its a rjmp and need to change to jmp ? then all instructions must move 2 bytes forward...
[15:58:46] <mark4_> i dont want to write to flash pages till the compile succeeds
[15:59:03] <mark4_> no. i assume is a JMP and you have to tell me its not
[15:59:23] <mark4_> if your codeing in forth thats all taken care of by the forth threading mechanism
[15:59:28] <mark4_> in asm you have to specify
[15:59:34] <mark4_> theres no "jmp" opcode
[15:59:42] <mark4_> erm
[15:59:46] <mark4_> there rjmp and jmp
[15:59:52] <mark4_> and jmp is always long
[16:00:16] <mark4_> thers no optimize this jump if possible else dont built in
[16:00:31] <mark4_> so i wont have the "we need to open more space up" or "we can close this space down" crap
[16:00:43] <RikusW> ok
[16:00:54] <RikusW> simplest solution.
[16:00:59] <mark4_> if you say rjmp foo and foo is out of range... error
[16:01:20] <mark4_> if foo is a fwd reference and you resolve it and its out of range.... error!
[16:01:33] <mark4_> tho. thers no forward reference jumps to anything other than local labels
[16:02:06] <mark4_> forth does not traditionally allow ANY forward references perse. looping and if/else yes but no forward jump to a word thats not defined yet
[16:02:10] <mark4_> you CAN do it however
[16:02:12] <mark4_> defer foo
[16:02:16] <mark4_> : blah foo ;
[16:02:28] <mark4_> : bar ... ;
[16:02:33] <mark4_> ' bar is foo
[16:02:39] <mark4_> blah now jumps forward to foo
[16:04:40] <mark4_> thats not the purpose for deferred words tho :)
[16:05:02] <mark4_> defer emit \ word usually used to write chars out to stdout
[16:05:07] <mark4_> : uart-emit ..... ;
[16:05:12] <mark4_> ' uart-emit is emit
[16:05:36] <mark4_> you would do something similar for key and now your i/o goes over the uart not the console
[16:06:03] <mark4_> ' (key) is key ' (emit) is emit \ restore i/o to stdin/out
[16:07:15] <mark4_> every few seconds both the channel 1 range and the channel 11 range get FLOODED with some mega crap thats blading those channels
[16:07:23] <mark4_> wifi round here is soooo iffy
[16:07:46] <mark4_> looking at this live graph of the 2.4ghz band (all of it) shows me why
[16:08:08] <RikusW> why ?
[16:08:40] <mark4_> because the entire range is flooded by so much other crap
[16:09:15] <RikusW> seems like wifi should be given some other bands as well
[16:09:45] <mark4_> there are channels 1 through 11 that you can use but the bandwidth of those channels are overlapping
[16:10:02] <mark4_> im seeing a crap load of FHSS stuff going on here too so thats got to be BE or BLE
[16:10:06] <mark4_> thats what im interested in
[16:10:55] <mark4_> the entire specrum is so fooded with jabber that its almost as if it were constant white noice throughout
[16:12:05] <mark4_> making wifi connections in this office amost totally pointless lol
[16:12:38] <mark4_> and im going to be filling this specrum with 7 raspberry pis. each of which will have a BLE dongle, a wifi dongle and an XBEE module
[16:12:44] <mark4_> thats going to help... a lot! lol
[16:13:42] <RikusW> sounds crowded
[16:14:15] <RikusW> mark4_:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/8_bytes_vs._8Gbytes.jpg
[16:14:15] <mark4_> and im on floor 15 so its only this floor and the one below. if would be worse if there were a floor above
[16:14:44] <mark4_> lol
[16:14:53] <mark4_> things have improved ever so very slightly
[16:15:22] <RikusW> it did :)
[16:15:48] <mark4_> took em long enuff tho
[16:15:51] <RikusW> at least memory cards are now made from silicon and not paper...
[16:16:23] <mark4_> i assume you know who jerry ellsworth is (if i spelled her last name right :)
[16:17:05] <RikusW> no
[16:17:15] <mark4_> ! omg
[16:18:00] <aandrew> RikusW: that's an awesome picture
[16:18:15] <mark4_> go search her out on youtube, she is absolutely freeking gorgeous. she makes her own scanning elecron microscopes, transisters and a complete c64 in a joystick :)
[16:18:34] <mark4_> she is also a perfect 12 out of 10 in good looks
[16:18:34] <aandrew> she is an amazing engineer
[16:18:37] <mark4_> she is
[16:18:41] <mark4_> all self taught too
[16:18:44] <aandrew> yep
[16:18:59] <aandrew> she's also the genius behind technical illusions which make the CastAR
[16:19:00] <mark4_> ben hecks arch nemesis according to ben heck :)
[16:19:03] <RikusW> aandrew: someone else posted it on irc a while ago, not sure if it was here on in #hackvana
[16:19:19] <aandrew> RikusW: either way it's now one of the images for my background rotation :-)
[16:19:51] <mark4_> if i had 10 million dollers i would give 9 of them to her jsut for being so freeking awesome lol
[16:20:53] <RikusW> mark4_: youtube and gprs don't mix so well...
[16:21:38] <mark4_> oh ya true story lol
[16:21:44] <mark4_> see if you can find a photo of her on google
[16:21:52] <mark4_> you will fall in love or your ghey :P
[16:22:19] <aandrew> lol
[16:22:40] <mark4_> and she totally reverse engineered the entire c64 incuding its sound chips and made a clone that fit in a joystick and they built in a bunch of old games into it
[16:22:45] <aandrew> she's cute but I'm more interested in hanging out with her than staring at her
[16:23:09] <mark4_> aandrew, she is very good looking but she also has an awesome personality
[16:23:23] <mark4_> i would love to hang out with her and chat geeky stuff :)
[16:24:07] <RikusW> I do seem to remember you mentioned her before
[16:24:25] <RikusW> the C64 girl
[16:24:37] <mark4_> what uses wifi channel 12?
[16:24:42] <mark4_> i thought that was off limits?
[16:25:38] <aandrew> depends on your region
[16:25:46] <mark4_> united states
[16:25:57] <aandrew> in the us yes 11 is out
[16:25:59] <aandrew> er is it
[16:26:38] <mark4_> every few minutes i see a HUGE signal on channel 11
[16:27:02] <mark4_> its the strongest signal there is round here and its on that channel
[16:27:39] <mark4_> erm no its channel 12 thats off limits
[16:27:46] <mark4_> 11 is the highest available for use
[16:27:50] <mark4_> off by 1 error :)
[16:28:32] <RikusW> I guess somebody turned on a microwave oven :-P
[16:28:59] <mark4_> no that would flood the entire specrum with white noise, tho it would be centered around that area
[16:29:03] <mark4_> stronger up there
[16:29:06] <twnqx> RikusW: did you ever use a core memory?
[16:29:18] <RikusW> no
[16:29:26] <twnqx> i have a 64kB array and woul like to use it, but...
[16:29:28] <mark4_> even im not that old :)
[16:29:37] <mark4_> crap how big is that lol
[16:29:41] <twnqx> laaaarge
[16:29:59] <twnqx> but the cores are far smaller than RikusW's
[16:30:00] <mark4_> did you make it?
[16:30:08] <twnqx> lolno
[16:30:10] <RikusW> twnqx: I've got an old logic book explaining how core memory works
[16:30:20] <twnqx> bought it from ebay USA
[16:30:33] <twnqx> was fun to explain to customs what it is
[16:30:46] <mark4_> jerry ellsworth made and/or gets using similar technology
[16:30:47] <RikusW> seems the new mram works in a similar way
[16:31:14] <RikusW> twnqx: what did customs think about it ?
[16:31:16] <twnqx> if you translate "core memory" to german, you get something that sounds like radioactive tech to clueless peopple
[16:31:29] <twnqx> which resulted in them jumping back,
[16:31:35] <RikusW> lol
[16:31:37] <mark4_> german sounds like radio active tech anyway :P
[16:32:00] <twnqx> also, of course they couldn't find it in their books
[16:32:05] <RikusW> twnqx: are you german ?
[16:32:08] <twnqx> to figure out tax rate
[16:32:09] <twnqx> yes
[16:32:36] <mark4_> if you cant blind them with science, baffle them with bullshit ?
[16:32:44] <RikusW> you could type the german version, I might understand
[16:33:32] <RikusW> you should have told then it is an antique computer part
[16:34:56] <twnqx> kernspeicher
[16:35:34] <RikusW> like in afrikaans, kernbom or kernkrag
[16:36:35] <RikusW> (nuclear bomb / power)
[16:36:59] <twnqx> yeah, kernkrag = kernkraft in german
[16:37:27] <mark4_> afrikaans is dutch yes?
[16:37:39] <twnqx> not quite, but close
[16:37:46] <RikusW> yep
[16:37:56] <twnqx> and dutch is stuck in the middle between german and english, so i kind of understand it :D
[16:38:03] <mark4_> its dutch in the same way louisiana french is french :P
[16:38:23] <twnqx> damn, just five more minutes of battery life on the craptop
[16:38:33] <twnqx> and 18 minutes of football left :P
[16:39:32] <mark4_> lol
[16:40:05] <twnqx> http://www.ebay.de/itm/Large-1960s-Univac-Core-Memory-Plane-/121596313328?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4fb47ef0
[16:40:06] <twnqx> nice stuff
[16:43:08] <twnqx> anyway, bbl
[16:43:16] <RikusW> bye
[17:31:22] <mark4_> anyone here happen to have a 32 x 32 multiply that uses shifts and adds instead of the more efficient long multiplication method we all learned in school? :)
[17:31:36] <mark4_> i want something thats significantly smaller than the 80 lines of asm that i have right now lol
[17:31:39] <mark4_> well close to 80
[17:31:56] <mark4_> tho what i have is actually 24x24 not 32x32
[17:36:45] <aandrew> [A
[17:37:23] <mark4_> ?
[17:38:13] <mark4_> oh thats some sort of escape seauence? all were missing is the 0x1b? :)
[17:38:48] <mark4_> 1b 1b 41 ?
[17:38:57] <mark4_> 1b 5b 41 i mean
[17:40:36] <LeoNerd> Most likely an arrow key
[17:40:37] <LeoNerd> CSI A
[17:42:43] <Valen> roll your own? A * B = C
[17:42:44] <Valen> while I < B { C = C + A; I++}
[17:42:52] <Valen> QED ;->
[17:43:03] <mark4_> lol i am not doing c :P
[17:43:17] <Valen> that was psudo code anyway
[17:43:19] <mark4_> but yes i can code it.. but if its already out there and available for use...
[17:43:38] <Valen> would it actually be that much better though? a 32bit add isn't going to be teensy
[17:44:04] <aandrew> yeah it was my computer coming back online and the ssh connection catching half of the key sequence I guess
[17:46:29] <mark4_> valen 24x24 will do :)
[17:46:48] <mark4_> using loops and adds will be SMALLER than the code i have now but somewhat slower
[17:46:52] <Valen> still, how big is a 24 bit asm add?
[17:47:01] <mark4_> add? thats trivial
[17:47:33] <mark4_> add al to bl. adc ah to bh, adc axh to bxh done
[17:47:42] <mark4_> 6 opcdes
[17:47:53] <Valen> faiy nuff
[17:48:00] <Valen> I have never really done ASM
[17:48:46] <Valen> not much beyond binary bit mashing anyway
[17:49:16] <mark4_> that puts you more knowledge able about it than alot of the coders i have dealt with over the years :)
[17:50:04] <Valen> I have always wanted to play with it
[17:50:16] <Valen> but it still kinda feels scary lol
[17:50:36] <Valen> I think the problem was I looked at X86 assembly when i was a kid
[17:51:07] <mark4_> valen x86 assembly IS scary lol
[17:51:15] <mark4_> avr asm is really sweet
[17:51:43] <mark4_> and theres a reason C and pascal and what have you are called "HIGH" level languages and asm is called a low level language
[17:51:49] <mark4_> p.s. c is NOT a low level language
[17:52:02] <Valen> what is?
[17:52:22] <mark4_> the reason being.... asm takes a lesser amount of brain power to understand
[17:52:40] <mark4_> c is FULL of really realy reallyt bad things like x++ + ++x <-- classic example
[17:53:13] <mark4_> char input = read() << 8 + read(); <-- another less trivial example
[17:53:56] <Valen> is that C or c++?
[17:54:22] <mark4_> c
[17:54:37] <mark4_> the problem with it is thers no guarantee on which order the two calls will happen
[17:55:06] <mark4_> compile with this compiler or on this machine and it happens one way. move the soruces to a different compiler or machine and... yer broke
[17:55:10] <mark4_> asm has NONE of that
[17:55:50] <Valen> to my mind that makes your example probably bad form ;->
[17:55:58] <aandrew> mark4_: you can write shit code in any language, but I will give you that C doesn't exactly go out of its way to discourage it
[17:56:26] <mark4_> aandrew, i know... even forth can be "Write only" code :)
[17:56:39] <aandrew> there is a lot of "undefined behaviour" in C and people don't realize it
[17:56:55] <mark4_> the difference is, c encourages some extremely bad practices, forth teaches you some really good ones. asm is somewhere in the middle
[17:57:16] <mark4_> yes. 30 years of consultant sw engineering... ive dealt with alot of it :)
[17:57:35] <aandrew> I find I like VHDL for its brutal enforcement, but to write software like that? no thanks
[17:57:37] <mark4_> theres a famous quote about unix
[17:57:56] <mark4_> the unix operating system was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things because that would stop you from doing clever things
[17:58:02] <aandrew> I like my hardware definition to be explicit, but for some reason (probably sheer laziness) I don't like my sw that way
[17:58:10] <mark4_> i would not be interested in any language that did not ALLOW you to shoot yourself in the foot
[17:58:19] <mark4_> forth allows it. C almost demands it
[17:58:41] <mark4_> aandrew, no... thers a MAJOR difference between hardware and software engineering
[17:58:48] <mark4_> hardware engineering is 99% science, 1% art
[17:58:57] <mark4_> software engineering is 99% art, 1% science
[17:59:03] <aandrew> you think so? I don't think that is true at all
[17:59:25] <aandrew> I've got about the same time in as you in hw/sw development, largely industrial control/power electronics
[17:59:35] <Valen> I think the way its done makes it art
[17:59:51] <Valen> but if you look at how say nasa does it, that is engineering
[18:00:04] <aandrew> there's absolutely less opportunity to be creative with (digital) hardware design but I don't think it's anywhere near 99/1
[18:00:46] <mark4_> Valen, USED to be. they used to have a thing called "Project ZD"
[18:00:50] <mark4_> prokect ZERO defect
[18:00:58] <mark4_> now they dont give a fuck.
[18:01:08] <mark4_> didnt you hear obama? nassa is now about muslim outreach!
[18:01:57] <mark4_> my father worked for nasa during the appollo program. i have a patch from the tracking station in tananarive madagasgar. closed now
[18:02:11] <aandrew> I didn't know there were muslims in outer space
[18:02:20] <aandrew> but you sound just like a friend of mine in another chan
[18:02:25] <mark4_> an actual appollo era patch that even nasa does not have in their collection any more :)
[18:02:26] <Valen> 4chan?
[18:02:30] <aandrew> lol
[18:02:33] <aandrew> not quite that bad
[18:02:47] <aandrew> mark4_: that is pretty wild. Do you have pics of it? I'd love to see it
[18:02:56] <Valen> I was talking about the software they used on the shuttles
[18:03:02] <mark4_> aandrew, ill send you some when i get home
[18:03:19] <mark4_> Valen, the software that totally amazes me was their appollo era software
[18:03:33] <Valen> oh that stuff was damn shiny
[18:03:39] <Valen> but it was art not engineering
[18:03:44] <mark4_> btw the harris controllers that nassa used were developed by chuck moore and STOLEN by harris semi conductors
[18:03:50] <mark4_> they are microcoded in forth
[18:04:32] <spybert> These days from what I hear NASA is a place engineers go to die :-(
[18:04:34] <Valen> the way they write the software for the shuttles and I presume similar life critical stuff is the closest I have seen to software engineering as anything
[18:04:51] <mark4_> spybert, of broken hearts
[18:04:59] <mark4_> 50 years and we have not left low earth orbit
[18:05:02] <aandrew> when I was on contract at aircell one of their engineers had a daughter who was in the 787 dreamliner design team
[18:05:09] <aandrew> DO168-A class software development
[18:05:26] <aandrew> she came in to give a little talk on how it's done. crazy crazy crazy strict process
[18:05:27] <mark4_> she probably knows the 1553 bus inside out :)
[18:05:42] <Valen> I like how lear do their software
[18:17:01] <LeoNerd> Anyone know where might be a good place to chat about the Nordic Semiconductor radio modules? I have some questions about them; not really AVR-specific
[18:17:17] <N1njaneer> Heh, what would you like to know
[18:17:18] <N1njaneer> ?
[18:17:33] <N1njaneer> (he says, writing an email about this exact thing at the moment you type that)
[18:17:40] <LeoNerd> Mostly: the TX queue has 3 slots in it. So I could keep up to 3 pending packets waiting for transmission
[18:17:55] <LeoNerd> In the docs it says if a transmit fails (i.e. you get the MAX_RT flag), you have to FLUSH_TX
[18:18:05] <LeoNerd> But then that means surely it flushes all of the pending transmissions?
[18:18:10] <N1njaneer> Which part are you using?
[18:18:14] <LeoNerd> nRF24L01+
[18:19:07] <LeoNerd> I wonder if it may be easiest just not to have more than one pending
[18:19:11] <LeoNerd> ignore the TX queue
[18:20:29] <N1njaneer> Mmm not sure on that as I've only done stuff with the NRF51822
[18:20:35] <N1njaneer> But your logic is pretty sound on that.
[19:43:18] <N1njaneer> Flipp_: Try Rigol?
[19:43:32] <N1njaneer> I've been exceedingly happy with their digital oscilliscopes
[19:47:30] <Flipp__> n1njaneer: interesting. do they have a data-out?
[19:47:51] <Flipp__> and what model do you have?
[19:49:32] <N1njaneer> I have a DS2202. And yes, has Ethernet and USB output, among other things.
[19:50:03] <N1njaneer> And USB flash-drive hosting, which is nice for grabbing screenshots and saving to the thumb drive.
[19:50:32] <N1njaneer> I've actually been considering getting one of their benchtop supplies recently, which is why it's coincident you asked :)
[23:48:26] <aczid> I'm buying an stm8 devboard I don't need because they're cheap. dx.com - not even once
